The D-backs and Mariners on Wednesday agreed to one of the first notable trades of the offseason, with Seattle sending third baseman Eugenio Suarez to Arizona in return for reliever Carlos Vargas and catcher Seby Zavala. Both teams have announced the deal. The trade gives the Diamondbacks the power-hitting third baseman they were looking for while the M’s pick up a controllable power arm, a backup catcher option and shed some meaningful salary.
Suarez, 32, has spent the past two seasons in Seattle after coming over from the Reds alongside Jesse Winker in the trade that sent Justin Dunn and Brandon Williamson to Cincinnati. While the trade was originally more about the Mariners absorbing the remainder of Suarez’s contract in order to acquire Winker on the heels of an excellent couple seasons at the plate, it was Suarez who rebounded and wound up providing the Mariners with the middle-of-the-order punch they’d been targeting.
Suarez clobbered 49 home runs back in 2019 — the second season of a seven-year, $66MM contract extension he’d signed with the Reds prior to the 2018 campaign. His bat tailed off considerably in 2020-21, however, and the Reds shopped him around as they looked to pare back payroll coming out of the pandemic-shortened 2020 season, which was played without fans and came with substantial revenue losses for all 30 clubs.
Upon landing in Seattle, Suarez was largely back to form. While still quite strikeout prone, he popped 31 long balls in 2022 and posted an overall .236/.332/.459 batting line that was about 30% better than league average after adjusting for home park and league run-scoring environment (by measure of wRC+). His 2023 season wasn’t as successful. Suarez posted very similar batting average and OBP marks, but his power dropped off considerably. He complemented this past season’s .232/.323/.391 batting line and 22 homers with his best defensive showing in quite some time (at least in the estimation of Statcast, who credited him with 11 Outs Above Average).
Suarez’s overall approach at the plate, however, is a profile from which the Mariners have voiced a desire to move on. Seattle president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto said earlier this month at the GM Meetings that he was looking to add high-contact hitters to his lineup — an understandable goal after his team’s 25.9% strikeout rate ranked second in all of Major League Baseball this season. Finding a trade partner for Suarez, in that specific regard at least, is addition by subtraction; Suarez fanned in 30.8% of his plate appearances in 2023 and 31.2% in 2022.
The 2024 season is the final guaranteed year on that $66MM contract for Suarez. He’s owed an $11MM salary plus at least a $2MM buyout on a $15MM option for the 2025 season. In all, the trade trims $13MM of guaranteed salary off the Mariners’ books. It also creates a notable hole at the hot corner, however. Recent trade acquisition Luis Urias is one potential option for the M’s, but he’s coming off a down season and was picked up in buy-low fashion. Presumably, a win-now club like the Mariners would want a more solid option at the position. Time will tell whether the Mariners find that player via free agency or, more likely (at least based on Dipoto’s track record), via trade.
As for the D-backs’ end of things, even Suarez’s slightly diminished 2023 production would be an improvement over their third basemen this past season. Arizona third basemen combined for a dismal .234/.303/.340 line in 2023. Suarez probably isn’t going to help out in terms of batting average, but he should bring more power to the position at a relatively reasonable price point of $13MM. Arizona now projects for about a $114MM payroll, per Roster Resource, which checks in $10MM shy of last year’s mark and about $18MM shy of their franchise-record level, established in 2018.
The trade fills at least one immediate need for the Mariners, who watched Tom Murphy become a free agent at season’s end. Zavala gives them an option to replace him as Cal Raleigh’s backup behind the plate.
The 30-year-old Zavala has tallied 514 plate appearances in the big leagues but mustered a tepid .210/.275/.347 slash in that output. While he’s shown above-average power at times in the minors — including a 20-homer showing in 82 games of Triple-A ball in 2019 — Zavala’s output at the plate has been undercut by his own prolific strikeout rates. He’s gone down on strikes in 35.8% of his Major League plate appearances to this point in his career. He won’t come to the plate nearly as often as Suarez, however, so even though Zavala has his own contact issues, the swap could still prove to bolster the team’s overall contact skills, as has ostensibly been one of their goals.
Furthermore, Zavala grades out as a strong defender behind the dish. Statcast rates him as above-average in terms of blocking balls in the dirt, and he’s regularly drawn plus framing grades both at FanGraphs and via Statcast. Zavala’s 14% caught-stealing rate this past season was well shy of the league-average 20%, as is his career 17% mark. He nabbed a roughly average 24% of would-be base thieves in 2022, however, and he’s hardly the only backstop who struggled to control the running game in 2023, when MLB’s new rules regarding pickoffs and slightly larger bases dramatically increased stolen bases throughout the league.
Zavala doesn’t have any minor league options remaining, so he’ll have to open the season on the Mariners’ active roster or else be traded or placed on outright waivers. It’s always possible they add another backup catcher to supplant him, but for now he stands as the clear favorite to back up Raleigh heading into next season.
The piece of the trade with larger appeal for Seattle could very well be the flamethrowing Vargas, who made his MLB debut with Arizona in 2023. Vargas pitched in just 4 2/3 innings (allowing three runs) and had suspect surface-level numbers in Triple-A Reno: 7.02 ERA, 17% strikeout rate, 15.1% walk rate. Grisly as those numbers may be at fist glance, however, there’s also a fair bit of intrigue around the young righty.
Vargas only just turned 24 last month, and in his brief time on the D-backs’ big league roster, he averaged 99.4 mph on his four-seamer and 98.8 mph on his sinker. Per Statcast, only seven of the 851 pitchers who tossed at least one inning last year averaged a better mark on their four-seamer and sinker. Vargas is one of the game’s hardest-throwing pitchers, and his sinker produced a massive 59% ground-ball rate in Triple-A.
When considering the substantial command issues that Vargas has shown not only in 2023 but throughout his professional career — he’s walked 11.5% of opponents in his overall minor league career — he’s clearly something of a project. That said, he’s also controllable for at least six seasons and still has a minor league option remaining for the 2024 campaign. The Mariners could see this as a similar bet to the one they made on Andres Munoz, who was a similarly live-armed but unproven young reliever with command issues when they picked him up from the Padres.
As it stands, the subtraction of Suarez still weakens the Seattle roster overall, so if there’s no subsequent move to add another third base option or at least to reallocate the $13MM in savings, this will still be widely viewed as a salary dump — even if there’s some legitimate long-term potential with Vargas. But the offseason is also quite young, and both the free-agent and trade markets have various options to consider at the hot corner or at second base, if Seattle is comfortable sliding another former Diamondback, Josh Rojas, over to third base.
A deal for Matt Chapman would be wildly uncharacteristic for Dipoto, who hasn’t signed a free-agent hitter to a multi-year deal since taking the reins in Seattle, but the market offers some more affordable options such as Gio Urshela and Justin Turner. The trade market is light on pure third basemen but has several shortstops, second basemen and/or multi-position names who could fit into the Seattle infield: Willy Adames, Jonathan India, Jorge Polanco, Kyle Farmer and perhaps Brendan Donovan among them.
Given the strong young core in Seattle and this past season’s narrow miss of the playoffs, there’s little reason to think the team is preparing for a notable step back. Dipoto has made a name for himself as perhaps the most active baseball operations leader in the game when it comes to the trade market, and is stands to reason that further moves will follow. With Suarez in Arizona, the M’s now project for a payroll around $133MM, per Roster Resource, which is about $7MM shy of last year’s total and about $25MM shy of their franchise record. There should be resources to further augment the roster in the days and weeks ahead.
USA Today’s Bob Nightengale first reported that the Mariners and D-backs had agreed to a trade involving Zavala and other players. Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times broke the news that Suarez and Vargas were in the swap.
Low-key, feeling good lfg
Is this low key girl math-boy math?
“is addition by subtraction; Suarez fanned in 30.8% of his plate appearances in 2023 and 31.2% in 2022.”
My bad. This was when I thought the mariners were getting just Zavala, before the news Suarez was being traded. I hate it now.
I’m sorry friend, the Mariners do need more contact, but not in the way the article mentioned… which was girl math vs boy math or whatever the kids called it? It’s a reverse of the Dalton Varsho trade, Suarez is gonna tear covers off baseballs in Arizona, much like JD Martinez did and the aforementioned Varsho who struggled in Toronto for his first season? If I was a M’s fan I wouldn’t like it much either, but hopefully more contact in that park in Seattle plays better for the team in the long run? Those power allies play so large in that park especially once the weather starts to cool. They almost need the Juiced ball in Seattle instead of humidors like they have in Colorado and Arizona to reverse the effect of that ballpark
For example Adrian Beltre almost sank a hall of fame career playing 4 years in Seattle… those four years hampered his numbers so much that if he didn’t play in that park in Texas which was known for blowing baseballs out in the wind those four years might have killed his hall of fame chances? Robinson Cano also struggled in Seattle who killed his hall chances using steriods to make up for lost time… So again know When Suarez starts tearing covers off baseballs in Arizona it’s because of the park…
Time to trade Woo or Miller plus one of the UTL and a MILB prospect 15-25 for Gorman Edman and Oneill/Carlson
This guy is known for being unremorseful after injuring Oneil Cruz
Why should he be? Cruz injured himself on such a bonehead slide
Mr Lack of compassion, a person can still be remorseful for being part of a play that injured someone else.
I realize that someone who feels so much hatred towards their fellow human being, it’s difficult to understand empathy
You’re right. He should have apologized to someone who was running full steam into him and almost took out his knees.
I am empathetic. I would have at least offered to sign his cast and put a smiley face next to my name.
Cruz slid horribly. That injury was absolutely not the catchers fault.
You may be confusing empathy and sympathy.
If you’re still roiling over the Oneil Cruz stupid slide you need to get a life. It was Cruz’s fault, Every normal person knows that. As for the trade it seems like a nice trade for both sides that should work out just fine. Zavala isn’t much with a bat in his hands but is an above average defender. the reliever evens it out IMO. Well done both sides I say.
And the on deck batter, Carlos Santana, should have been playing home plate coach, and signaling him to slide, just was not anywhere to be seen until after the injury.
It’s so painful confusing feeling and emotions for other adjectives ment to describe similar things that are vastly different but uniquely conjunctant in a vacuum?
It’s like touching an emotion with your hand and feeling it’s sensation? Which would be unique to the human experience, let me know how that is for you? Maybe write a book for all of us? Makes me think of the furngully? When Crysta places Zacks hand on the tree he’s carving and asks if he can “feel its pain” he thinks she’s crazy? And they ask me what kinda drugs I’m on and say I need mental help? At least I understand what this means? Or the lack there of equates to?
Cruz made a horrible slide right into the catchers legs
Cruz should’ve slid. It was his fault.
He’s not known for that at all.
Get a load of this moron!
Another light-hitting addition. Yawn. Business as usual.
Feels like a pure salary dump
Even with the pitcher added, this is an incredibly light return for Suarez. It certainly does appear to be a pure salary dump, more or less. Mariners are clearing salary for some reason; maybe they are going to go hard after Bellinger?
One can only hope. I’m completely fine trading Geno; he was bad last year and his “good vibes only” seemed to deteriorate as he racked up the strikeouts. But unless they use the salary savings to sign a significant free agent, these moves are pointless.
Why stop at Bellinger? Ohtani, maybe?
NO. NO. NO. NO OHTANI.
I was thinking the same thing
He led the league in strikeouts and his power is declining while being on the wrong side of 30. This is a perfectly acceptable return.
There’s good reason to believe Suarez won’t quite be a decent regular in 2024, or will at best worth his inflated salary, so getting this many years of control for a useful spare C and a power arm is a decent deal. An avg bat or worse 3 of the last 4 seasons, he’s turning 32, he needed a BABIP he’s unlikely to repeat just to be worth putting on the field at 3B for a contender, AND his K-rate is so high it may make it impossible for him to be a productive hitter. if it bumps to the next awful level, keep his OBP around .300… there’s a lot of risk in relying on Suarez as a regular in 2024.
He needed a BABIP?
Unless Suarez can improve his sprint speed and/or change his approach in the box to be less fly ball oriented, his BABIP will remain low.
His salary isn’t inflated. Try finding a 3-win free agent for $11 million salary on the free agent market.
I understand the reasons a contender would want to upgrade from suarez, but this was just dumping a decent asset to save money. If the money saved is going to be reinvested in upgrading the team, that would be one thing, but the track record says that’s not going to be the case.
The team is smack dab in the middle of the contention window we were all told to wait for then the team would spend its war chest savings……and they are doing the opposite.
Hard to be a fan of team that punts away its contention window after waiting 20 years just to pad its bank account even more.
2.3 WAR last season, but that is still relatively inexpensive production at the $13.29 million Suarez was guaranteed.
I get that earlier posters referenced WAR so your reply makes sense. But 2.3 WAR (whether it is “b” or “f”) for 13.29 M?
WAR is a stat based o several metrics, but it’s only one stat. Using only one statistic is always problematic. But ERA+ or OPS+ or wRC+ would be better ones to use.
DOROTHY —And I thought the D-Backs would go after Justin Turner for 3b.
I don’t think Turner would have signed to be a primary DH in Boston if he thought he was still able to play in the field everyday.
if this isnt a precursor to another move, the m’s will need to be relegated to the guardians’ line of Already Smart Teams Who Would Greatly Benefit From Spending More Money
On second thought, Zavala is only 25, and as a backup catcher anything would probably be better than O’Keefe.
Suarez can imitate Babe Ruth for two week stretches.
I don’t think The Babe ever stretched.
He stretched reaching for a hot dog and a beer
Eating those hot dogs stretched out his stomach.
The Mariners MOTOB has arrived!!
WOW… Does this make them favorites to win the AL West?
WS favorites too probably
These comments were funnier before they updated the article when it was just noting that the Mariners had acquired a backup catcher that had a .545 OPS last season.
But even then they weren’t that funny, admittedly.
….I will diminish and go into the west.
Nightengale also says hes part of a larger package that has been discussed for weeks.
A larger package? Are we getting Ketel Marte back lol?!
This was probably a misunderstanding. Zavala was reported as having been traded first (before anyone involved was reported).
The bigger package was Vargas with Suárez as the return.
I heard he’s boys with Ohtani. Does this make the M’s frontrunners?
Paul Sewald to Seattle please
Weird that this is the dude who gets leaked in a “larger trade.” I assume there are no big names or it would be really weird.
You would think so, but then you see it’s for Suarez lol
Not a fan of this trade. Crossing my fingers Urias isn’t the starting 3rd baseman
If he is they went really big elsewhere, or cheaped out hard (or they really like him in some weird Dipoto way). Will be interesting to see what the plan really is.
May I interest you in Yoan Moncada?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Moncada has upside/potential (can he recapture his 2019?) and a great glove. But he’s also expensive and the White Sox are dumping salary like crazy now. N’s could get him for just the salary relief.
Not so sure what is going on here. So, now the Mariners need a thirdbaseman,. They are creating more needs.
Josh Donaldson on opening day
Should of gave Murphy a deal instead of letting him walk as a FA.
Yep. Backup C’s who can hit more than a pitcher are seriously underrated.
Murphy is better than several starting catchers. Someone will pay him to start, and Seattle should be happy for him to get that chance.
Agreed. Murphy should be starting somewhere.
Multi player trade centered around someone who produces “tepid”? Wondering what the other pieces look like
Eugenio Suarez
It’s Suarez. OK strange that Nightengale heard about Zavala first.
Interesting deal on both sides. Dbacks weren’t known to be in the 3B market (I thought Lawlar was going to play there), Suarez is super expensive. And then that leaves a wide open position in Seattle. Maybe they’re going after Chapman.
Lawlar has absolutely no business playing 3B, he simply hasn’t got the arm for it at all. Hell. he’s likely to start the year in Reno anyway, looking more like a July call-up than someone ready for the opening day roster.
He’s a SS, which requires even more arm than a 3B.
Uh what throw from SS requires more arm than 3B? 3rd is literally further for almost every play
DBacks have been known to be in the 3B market; Lawlar looked overmatched in his MLB time towards the end of the season, Rivera is close to replacement level, and Peterson is not much more than a bench bat. Plus, Longoria is a free agent.
That was the easiest position on the roster to improve (since the production received from Lawlar, Longoria, Perdomo, Peterson, Rivera, and Rojas at 3B was the lowest of any position on the roster), aside from possibly DH. And Suarez has the added benefit of being a solid RHB on a roster heavy on LHBs.
Would love to see the DBacks in on the Mitch Garver market now, since he’d be an upgrade over what Zavala would have provided in his limited time behind the plate and would address the DH deficiency.
Those deals and one more quality SP would make this offseason a success in my eyes (adding two would be nice, but that’s kind of an unrealistic expectation in this market)
Have read and heard that the DBacks are looking at Paul Blackburn (Oak) SP, also maybe another LH relief pitcher Matt Moore plus another bench piece, I like the Garver piece. There is a chance they may go for a additional starter but that may not happen to around spring training after the big names FA’s are sign. Also, they have inquired about Dylan Cease, but it would include maybe 3 solid prospects and an MLB roster player or two going to the WSox.
The Diamondbacks should be aiming a lot higher than Blackburn. They need to add two middle of the rotation type SP.
Seattle isn’t likely going after Chapman. who has plenty of swing and miss in his game as well.
When did $11MM become “super expensive?” Lawler is more likely to play SS. Hope this means Perdomo can be traded to Detroit to replace Baez.
Maybe if Lawler is ready before the deadline but I think Domo is unlikely to be traded
$11M? No kidding! If AJ Pollock met his incentives last yr the Ms would’ve had to pay $10M for a 36yr old platoon partner at RF/DH! They were lucky tho- they only had to pay $7M (guaranteed) for AJ Pollocks 22 Hits and 46 OPS+ over 49g! Oof! Speaking of swing and miss!
I see Jerry is starting a catcher pile. Doesn’t seem terrible if he ends up the backup catcher.
Mariners need bats, maybe they’re gearing up for a Free Agent at 3B?
Obviously, or a trade. Chapman’s really the only one. Maybe Candelario. But there is competition for both.
I bet the M’s sign Tim Anderson and convert him to 3B. They won’t do something that makes sense, like sign a legit 3B and try to compete.
My estimate is Candelario is the best they could get, but he’ll come at a hefty price.
I don’t see them outbidding anyone for Chapman.
Remember, 54%.
This is their solution to a black hole at 3B? Eugenio Suarez?
Lmaoooo
Yeah the same guy who has been an above average hitter for most of his career including the last two seasons. Other than Chapman what better options were there dick?
Lmaoooo
Does Suarez still have the most K’s every year?
Yes…..yes he does.
Yep, but I don’t see how that matters too in 2023 if you can still be a productive hitter. Some of the best hitters in the league have extreme strikeout rates (see Trout, Mike)
You can’t give up Logan Gilbert straight for Noelvi Marte.
Held off renewing 20-game pack with the M’s and won’t invest any $$$ on single game tickets until Jerry makes multiple moves that actually improve this team. 47 seasons and still waiting….
India would be a good addition to the trade
Marte and India for Gilbert and Hancock. We get 3 years of India and 6 years of Marte.
The M’s don’t want India for any price and you’re not even close for Gilbert.
Gilbert is FAR more valuable. No thanks on Gorman, he’s not of equal value, far too light.
You aren’t getting Marte. The guy is tearing up winter league and will be the 3rd baseman for many years.
Lots of trade options.
@seamaholic
Who are these third baseman that are available for trade? Jorge Polanco may be available but he’s not really a third baseman, maybe Brendon Donovan, but again not a true third baseman and zero guarantees the Cards want to deal him. Not trying to be a jerk, but I am confused to what third baseman you are referring to that are available for trade.
Patrick Wisdom is likely available for a bag of balls.
Patrick Wisdom is a worse version of Suarez but 10 million cheaper.
Well there’s plenty of 3B prospects available for the right price, but Chapman is certainly the only decent established third baseman around. Still, there are more options than just Suarez or Chapman. Hell, LeMahieu is probably available, his power may be fairly non-existent but he can still play solid defense at third.
Nolan Gorman for Logan Gilbert would be interesting. Gorman has been playing 2b but I assure you he’s a 3b.
Could probably get Sosa from the Phillies too. They have Harper at first now so Bohm will be moving to third and Sosa’s a bit young to be a full-time DH.
Sosa is best suited as a utility guy.
But his name is more fun to say…Seby Zavala
Jerry being Jerry
Good ole Trader Jerry!
Does this mean the M’s are trying to sign free agent 3B Chapman?
He wants 150 million. No thanks
“No thanks”..I tend to agree but am perplexed by this move by the M’s.
That’s Jerry’s style. He will sign someone off the streets and push his own version of moneyball to the fans.
Candelario far more likely. M’s trying to get more contact oriented guys, and he’s probably straight up better than Suarez anyway.
How was the return so low? I mean, not that you expect that much more but…. I guess he makes $11M and no one wanted to pay.
Projection systems are forecasting ~2 war because of his declining contact rates and increasing age. And he’s essentially a rental, so no real surplus value.
I am not a big WAR believer (it has its place), but he had a 2.1 bWAR/3.3 fWAR last year, so literally giving up nothing aside from picking up his tab ($11Mish + $2M buyout) seems like a no brainer for most teams. I guess Seattle chose Diamondbacks for the dump.
Not a lot of 3B openings around baseball, and two pretty good free agents in Chapman and Candelario, equals not a lot of market for a guy like Suarez.
a backup catcher, which the m’s needed, and an optionable upper level pitching flier is actually a pretty decent return for suarez, especially when considering the work the mariners have done with their other bullpen pieces. as for the dbacks, $11mm for the obp, power, and sound but by no means elite defense is probably better than market value in this offseason’s free agent class
Exactly: Replacing Murphy with a credible defender was an obvious need, but the real get may be Vargas. The M’s, for everything they do badly, have a nigh-magical ability to turn relievers into kaiju. Vargas will be interesting to see next season.
Yeah they traded for the 8th hardest thrower in baseball who’s 24 years old. Solid return ! Apparently Jerry is confident he can develop him.
I knew this! I had a feeling! It’s a smart move! I love it. he will hit 32 hrs and bat 265. Love it! Hazen is the best!
Very similar player to Longoria. A little better top line results but led the world in K’s last year.
Not no more. Longoria isn’t hitting 32 hrs and playing 162 games. Don’t worry about the ks. Its a cheap deal and saves us money for a big time pitcher.
Suarez isn’t hitting 32 HR either.
Or .265.
Though playing 81 at Chase Field and 13 more in Denver might get him closer to 32.
What! I bet you 500 he hits 30 at least!
Don’t let Seattle numbers fool you
He very well could given he’s playing his home games in a hitter in a friendly environment just like he did in 2015-2021, when he was with Cincinnati.
The 32 HR are possible, but I very much doubt the .265 BA. It’s been around 4 years since he hit over over .235.
Any cash involved? Seems like Seattle would have to swallow some of Suarez’s salary.
This will make sense if the M’s go get Chapman. Other than that, this is a straight salary dump. Suarez isn’t amazing but he’s a good player on a not ridiculous contract. Felt like they would’ve gotten a bit more than just Zavala and an alright looking reliever.
Chapman is going to get way overpaid by someone else. Urias might be the 3B and this is 100% a pure salary dump.
Urias is not the answer at 3B.
I hope you are correct, I just also hope it isn’t Chapman. Maybe we can trade for one and Urias could be a bench or platoon bat ideally.
Well this makes sense in lieu if the Urias/Campbell swap. This is all so Dipoto. If they just did it to shave 5-10 million, thats concerning. I do have concerns about Suarez but he only had the year left iirc and has been good. That said this may not be a bad start if the end goal is actual upgrades to the roster. They definitely have a more flexible situation now in terms of who they target as an IF upgrade if they go that route and may have a decent backup catcher or the start to a pile if they dont re-sign Murphy.
Hey, Mariners fans.
Could Ty France play a passable 3B, or is his glove best suited to 1B or DH at this point?
He was ok-ish a couple years ago and is a pretty good defensive 1B. My guess is probably not enough to play everyday at this point but he might pass for one for a bit, especially if he’s hitting well, which st this point is a big question for them, will he hit enough to be a regular.
I believe with the padres he came through the minor leagues as a 3b. They moved him off that spot because they had manny. Now as far as quality I couldn’t tell you and not sure who can given his time now away from the position. Prob if I had to guess would be worse the muncy done there.
He’s a below average defensive 1B, so 3B is totally out of the question for me. Unless he figures out his swing again he would be a pretty mediocre DH too in my opinion.
He’s a non-tender candidate on most teams even as a 1B, let alone at 3B
Salary dump and roster balancing move. I’m good with it but I’m gonna miss Geno’s good vibes and clubhouse impact.
Is it possible that this opens a position to bring Noelvi Marte back in a trade with the Reds? Gilbert for Marte?
There has to be a follow up move; Josh Rojas and Luis Urias are not the answer at 3B
NO. They are NOT. That would not be a good trade for the Mariners and MAKES NO SENSE…..Gilbert is an established, quality every day, MLB starting Pitcher……Come on!
Didn’t really give up much for an average starting 3b for 1 year. Low risk who knows maybe Suarez hits 30 plus bombs. Doubt it but for what you gave it up worth the risk.
Opportunity cost. Dbacks are in win mode. They chose Suarez as their 3B over other options. Which may turn out fine. But the cost of acquisition is only one cost of this deal.
I’m not much of a Suarez believer so anything even halfway decent for him is a win for the mariners in my book.
Not saying he is bad, just not the type of players I think you want to bank on.
I’m still upset about the Tigers trading him for one bad year from Alfredo Simon.
Does this open up a possible Devers, Verdugo trade for pitching? As a Sox fan I can only hope.
No
Maybe Verdugo. M’s don’t have extra major league pitching anyway. They do have some good minor leaguers.
Please be forshadowing something wonderful for the Mariners… and I mean genuinely wonderful, not what Dipoto assumes we should think is wonderful.
Most trades I see on here makes sense but this one doesn’t. Seems like M’s is just dumping Suarez. I know ES is not an all star but he is a serviceable player. Obviously missing something
I think they got Urias and ditched Suarez to simply save money. That’s what it looks like to me.
He makes too much for a team that lost tv deal or maybe just in general. Arizona probably thinks he can be better and I agree. No guarantee but enough upside to justify his $. Seattle either doesn’t feel the same or really want his $ off the books.
Suarez will love hitting at his home games at Chase Field. Just hope he cuts down on some of the K’s. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
The D-Backs must have really liked Vargas’ stuff this year because it is wild that they called him up. 7+ ERA, 2+ WHIP at AAA gets you 5 games at the big league level with a playoff-bound team
Not a huge grab for the M’s. They did just trade a pitcher to the Sox, so this is basically replacing that while hoping Luis Urias is the answer. Change of scenery for the M’s
Sounds like trader Jerry has a deal cooked up with mo and his super subs
This is a move the Giants should have made. 2 years of Suarez gives Schmitt some time to grow and prove himself. Instead they’ll end up blowing probably $150 mil on an inferior hitter in Chapman.
Bart would have been all it took.
Odd move by SEA.
When a guy leads the league in strikeouts and hits almost 50 HRs it’s worth it (Schwarber 22-23 or Geno in 19 as examples). When they do it and hit 22 home runs (Suarez in 23) they’re replaceable.
At the plate, sure. But try playing Schwarber at the hot corner. Gotta put most of the lineup on the field too.
Nice move for the DBacks
Urias at 3B with Rojas at 2B as of right now.
Good trades are mutually beneficial and Geno will benefit greatly in a stadium like Arizona where his waning power can still hit it out of the park and Vargas will be better in Seattle than he ever could be in Arizona.
This makes sense out of the Isaiah Campbell trade for the Mariners.
Dbacks fan here,
To me this is straight up a good trade and leads me to think Lawlar is getting traded. Possible for cease..
Lawler, Nelson, McCarthy, Alexander And De Los Santos for Cease and Robert?
Only 1 year of Geno. Will be plenty playing time for Lawlar.
I said it last offseason and I will say it again this offseason- the Mariners should trade for 2B/3B Ramon Urias from the Orioles (especially now that they acquired his brother Luis). Ramon is a bit above average both defensively and offensively, has 3 years of control left, and isn’t going to cost much in arbitration, and he is going to have a harder and harder time cracking the lineup in Baltimore with Gunnar Henderson and Jordan Westburg having already arrived and several more top 100 IF prospects MLB-ready or close to it (Holliday, Mayo, Ortiz, Norby).
The Mariners have the young, controllable, high ceiling starting pitching the O’s desperately need, and while Ramon obviously would not be the headliner or even the top secondary guy, he could be a nice complimentary piece in a trade package for someone like Gilbert or Woo that the M’s could plug right into their newly created 3B vacancy and feel pretty good about heading into the 2024 season.
I just do not understand anything Dipoto does…This trade makes absolutely zero sense. How does this or any other move (acquiring Blake Hunt, Luis Urias) help us in the slightest? The only players we’ve received this offseason so far, are horrible players. I just don’t get it. I hate that I can’t stop being a Mariners fan…It’s so extremely painful. 🙁
Frees up $11M to spend elsewhere? I am squinting here, their payroll isnt even that high.
Don’t be pathetic.
He’s not worth the $. If they can’t get more ops from him this is a awesome move.
As a Reds fan I’ll always love Geno, hope this works out well for all parties involved
As an M’s fan, ditto! His “joie de vivre” will surely be missed. 🙂
A great move to keep the mariners mediocre all Jerry has to do is put out a 500 team as long as the mariners miss the playoffs by a few games he can say “I tried ” and us mariners fan will believe it.
No he has to put out a .540 team. That is the goalpost for winning a championship and he promised us!!
Could have a strong year and be a bargain. I endorse the move.
Suarez has been an incredibly solid defensive 3B with an exceptional arm. Not to mention how fantastic he’s been in the club house.
Seems a very low return even with the salary dump. Wouldn’t surprise me if Geno comes back with a season well above this year. The amount of long balls he had on the warning track, Chase Field is going to feel like a paradise in comparison.
Hope the salary saved is going to be used on something really exceptional, but gut tells me Stanton will use it for nothing more than wallet padding.
We may be seeing signs to sell the team if this kind of stuff keeps ongoing. You can’t keep adding guys who had great 2019 seasons and have sucked for the last 3-4 years. we need win now, mlb proven, bas ass mother efers that will get our team into the playoffs and the world series, Just look at the Rangers and Astros. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels do something good this offseason with Washington as the coach now. Then were do we stand just above the A’s. Come on Dipoto.
I’m fine with this trade. Seattle has now rid its lineup of the #2 and #3 strikeout guys in MLB by trading Suarez and not re-signing Teoscar Hernandez. I wish the return was more, but as long as those two are replaced by players with low strikeout rates and better contact rates, I think the lineup should be better at scoring. All that being said, I wish Suarez and Hernandez the best.
That’s clearly where the organization is at on all this !
Seattle makes a ton of moves so i expect another trade w cincy or Baltimore soon trading pitching for a young bat.
I also think Seattle is going to land Yamamoto and that’s another reason to shed a little salary
I’d love to see them sign Yamamoto, his NPB numbers suggest he’s the real deal. My thought is that if they would sign Yamamoto or Snell, they might be able to use pitching to swing a deal for Juan Soto. Of course then they would have to spend money again to extend Soto… but I’d sure love to see them do something along those lines. They need to be looking at what Texas has done with signing guys. I wouldn’t even mind seeing them use Kelenic as part of a trade, as long as they would make a corresponding move like signing Lourdes Gurriel. An outfield of Gurriel, Julio and Soto would be fun, and Soto and Gurriel are not strikeout-prone.
I’m with ya on all counts including wishing those two the best. Two great guys. These two moves so far make sense when taken together.
Looks like a salary dump. Arizona gets an average overall 3B and Seattle gets salary relief, plus a couple of waiver-claim level pieces to try out.
Well, a couple of things jump out on this D’Backs were not going to get or want to pay the big contract of Chapman. Sounds like Dipoto and Hazen like doing deals with each other. Now since the DBacks have their third baseman for 2024, next could be the announcement that Dbacks acquiring a starting pitcher and now I wonder if Gurriel will be resigned?
I’m just glad the Cubs don’t have to face Suarez times a year. He was a PITA against the Cubs.
Interesting move. Clears the way for the Mariners to trade for India now!
Also article is disingenuous. Williamson and Dunn were only part of the deal for Suarez and Winker. The arguably better players included in the trade were Jake Fraley and Connor Phillips.
Really wish we had Phillips back
What a horrible return for Seattle. But I guess they weren’t exactly selling high on him.
So true. I’m wondering if they had shopped Suarez around and couldn’t get any better offers for him. Low OPS + high strikeouts isn’t a very good advertisement for someone they wanted to trade. But if they trade France or Kelenic or others, they need to do way better than this.
Diamondbacks get some thump in thd lineup and a regular at 3B for the upcoming season for nothing but a backup Catcher and reliever. Solid pick up for them.
On the Seattle side. I doubt they sign Chapman but Urshela or Candelario seem right their alley
Suarez had some good seasons with the Reds, and Mariners. He has a good glove which will make Luvello happy. The players that AZ gave up with Vargas has a good arm and potential, Zavala is a back-up catcher. Dbacks will probably being taking on all of Suarez contract, I remember the Dbacks were looking into a trade for Suarez when he was with the Reds, they liked him then.
I gotta me one of those them there Christmas shirts!
So Suarez was traded for the second time as a salary dump?
I thought I read somewhere that DiPoto has never signed a free agent position player on the market for an AAV over $7MM. I meant to go check that because that’s crazy. Does any Mariners fan know if that’s true?
That is accurate.
Last offseason’s one-year, $7 million contract with A.J. Pollock was the largest free agent contract for a position player during Jerry Dipoto’s tenure in Seattle.
Correct on all counts. This move is part dump and partly to fill minor holes that needed to be addressed anyway. I think Dipoto will add bats but probably not with a big signing.
Thanks Muskie and Good Vibes.
I understand that Teoscar and Eugenio strike out a tremendous amount and did not put the ball in play at a high rate. That being said, it is our batting line-up, that needs improvement, to say the least, it is worse as of right now than it was during the season. I hope there is a bigger move or three at work here. There has to be, right? Jerry?
Snakes were never signing Chapman, thought they might take a shot at Candelario. $11M for some desperately need SLG. Solid move for Hazen. If Sea’s staff can harness some control Vargas could have real value.
Suarez’ swinging and missing will act as a cooling fan for the D-Backs fans.
I agree with desertdawg and Zach novotny who were speculating about what’s next for the Dbacks now that they have their 3b?
With Suarez at 3rd, there is now a mini logjam at SS with Perdomo and Lawler. Most industry observers see Lawler as a top candidate for 2024 ROY. Lovullo and Dbacks fans appreciate Perdomo’s leadership and solid development. Lawler looked overmatched in his brief big league debut, but he was kept on the post season roster throughout the Dback’s run to the World Series.. So is he ready to take over SS in 2024? Perdomo has undeniable skills (Gold Glove caliber SS, speed/base stealing, leadership, sacrifice bunting, growing power potential, etc.). What to do about this mini logjam?
IF the Dbacks do trade, which one gets traded, which one has the highest trade value and which one do the Dbacks prefer to keep? On the surface, it looks like the Dbacks would be wasting one of them in a backup role on the team when they could sell high on either as the centerpiece of a trade for a front of the rotation starting pitcher?
Unless they can get something amazing for either of them I would recommend they hang on to both players. All those guys can rotate days off. Perdomo is a glue guy I think. I would like the M’s to have him but wouldn’t feel great about him in an everyday role. Lawler has perennial allstar upside and is borderline untouchable I bet. I would only be trade him for another pre-arb young stud like a Eury Perez. I bet they don’t move either player. Ya’ll have a great young core!
There’s no logjam. Perdomo is a utility player. He never hit much in the minors and just had an outlier year (which was still below average) last year. Lawlar is the SS as soon as the deem him ready. You wouldn’t get much in trade for Perdomo and they’re better off keeping him.
Actually, I was talking about Gerardo Perdomo, the Dback’s 2023 NL All-Star SS. Let’s get on the same page here. Your comment about an All-Star SS being a “utility player” has absolutely zero credibility!
This year shortstop Geraldo Perdomo made the NL All Star Team in his age 23 season, posting 2.7 fWAR in 144 games.
That does not suggest a utility player.
No offense but that’s a pretty weak All Star. He’s a nice player to have with some speed and defense, he doesn’t K and will take a walk, but this is a player that is bottom 3% of the league in hard hit%, barrel%, EV, wOBA. This is a utility player and a good one at that, but not much more.
Maybe they rotate Domo at SS & 2B and Ketel gets more DH at bats? I don’t see them trading them just yet unless it’s a SP they can’t pass on.
If Dipoto can sign Bellinger and trade for Brendan Donovan (Emerson Hancock + a relief arm?), the lineup would go from a K-happy 2023 to *very* solid. Between Donovan, France, Rojas, and Urias they could be adequate at 2B and 3B, but a trade for a blocked prospect (Conner Norby of the O’s ?) or Jonathon India using Miller or Woo might be preferable at least until Ben Williamson or Tai Peete get enough MiLB reps. If Bliss continues his march, 2B may be fixed for a while — the Ms own Altuve-sized sparkplug! In that case, turn 3B over to Donovan or India and go for it.
Donovan is worth a lot more than Hancock and a relief arm.
The trade to be made is Nootbaar for Gilbert. The Mariners need a right fielder and want someone who takes good at bats that’s Nootbaar. Cardinals need someone they can call an ace even if Gilbert isn’t quite on that level yet.
If the conversation doesn’t include Mayson Winn, the M’s won’t trade Logan Gilbert. Young controllable pitching is the most difficult thing to find.
Why would the Mariners want Winn?
The Mariners need a right fielder. They want someone who takes good at bats and doesn’t strike out a ton.
Mariners don’t do that. Young healthy starters with lots of control are the coin of the realm. For someone like Gilbert you’d have to talk Jordan Walker.
Walker is overrated but the Cardinals won’t trade him.
Gilbert for Nootbaar is about as fair as it gets.
Nootbaar is not a sufficient return for Gilbert. Nootbaar in addition to Gorman MIGHT be.
Lol dude I don’t have time for nonsense. Mariners fans seem to be pretty delusional when it comes to who is worth what. If my team had 1 playoff appearance in the last 20 years I wouldn’t be so righteous
Dude, have you seen some of the fake trade proposals that Yankee fans have made up before? I mean, I’m also one, but they’re so stupid that they always amuse me. One of the best ones is Andujar and Frazier for (insert superstar player here) and of course it’s always an ace or a middle of the order hitter.
Pot calling the kettle black….
Make an offer that makes sense.
Yours didn’t make sense either!
Gilbert is definitely more valuable than Nootbar. Walker is not going anywhere. Woo for Nootbar could be interesting, but STL just signed two back end starters (I wouldn’t be surprised if Lynn bounces back in STL) and I doubt SEA and STL do business even if they theoretically match up well.
You make an offer that makes sense.
You go by trade value simulator Castillo for Donovan is fair. If the Mariners want to keep pinching pennies that could work for both sides.
Cardinals don’t want or need Woo. Nootbaar was the best player on the team in 2023 they aren’t trading him for a back end starter.
Castillo for Donovan. Saves Mariners money so they can make a run for the playoffs in 2029.
Nootbar is like a younger Mark Canha. If he’s the best player on your team, that says more about the team than it does the player. Castillo for Donovan? lol
Nootbaar is an excellent defensive player. He’s not Mark Canha you obviously don’t know what you are talking about.
Castillo has a big contract that’s why he isn’t worth that much. The Mariners probably want to shed more payroll because they are the Mariners so it makes sense.
The Mariners are not trading Logan Gilbert. I don’t know where people get this stuff.
So agree, Zippy. A young, talented, sometimes dominant, and contract controllable, pitcher like Gilbert is beyond valuable. I actually think that Dipoto gets that. I know that Dipoto gets his marching orders, budget wise, from our cheap owner John Stanton but they both know that the Mariner fans are upset and they both know that in order to make a run at it all they need 2-3 more bats. I loved Eugenio’s attitude and he must have been an awesome teammate, but they need a line-up that has more consistent good at bats and puts the ball in play. I want to believe that this is clearing even more salary space to get those bats. The Rays, Cardinals, Dodgers,etc etc need pitching, badly. I still hope that the M’s sign a hometown guy like Snell or go get Yamamoto and then trade a Woo or Miller for a bat or two. You also have to spend on a Free Agent bat to not trade more players and take away from the depth. Go get Jung Ho Lee as a corner outfielder….I also hope that they can sign JD Martinez. Though older, his numbers last year were great and he must be a valuable leader in the clubhouse with all of his playoff experience.
Good pickup for the dbacks, especially if he can continue doing well on defense. I’d expect his power to come back too. Nothing like 2019 but around 30 homers is reasonable.
I won’t be shocked if they don’t even make the playoffs next season.
They nearly didn’t make it this year. Playoffs are pure dice roll and it’s an advantage to be a wildcard.
Says the jealous, loser Seattle fan.., whose team Didn’t make the playoffs.
DBacks should have traded away Miguel Castro instead of Vargas, but the Mariners probably didn’t want him. Either way, I still think this is not a bad deal. Team gets a slugger 3B who will hit some bombs, but needs to cut down on the K rate.
Suarez most Ks in AL, average OPS for 3B in ’23, avg defense, another year older….. Most likely the snakes get an overall below avg (replacement level) 3B in ’24 making 11M. I like Seattle’s side on this trade for sure.
Hazen has effectively checked off one of his top 4 off-season priorities by obtaining Suarez to man 3b. It doesn’t matter what Seattle administration or fans think of Suarez. From the Dbacks perspective, Suarez is a significant upgrade from the 2023 3b situation, in exactly the way the Dbacks needed to upgrade.
Hazen moves on now with his next 3 top priorities, with All of his tradeable assets and financial wiggle room completely intact. The primary priority is still a starting pitcher. Not a #4 or #5 type starter, the Dbacks have several of those in house. Rather, Hazen is looking for a top of the rotation type to slot in with Gallen, Kelly and Pfaadt, to make the Dbacks more competitive in both the regular season, but especially in the 2024 postseason.
A right handed batting LF power hitter and another high leverage bullpen arm are the other two top 4 priorities.
Saw an interesting trade scenario I kind of liked. Perdomo&R.Nelson for Cease&E.Gimenez. DBacks get a great SP you who had a rough year but can rebound with their pitching coach. They also get a of/dh to fill the Gurriel void.
Jerry, just saved the M’s ownership group another $13 million. They should love him for that. The most profitable team in MLB just got a little richer. After all, it is all about the Benjamin’s not World Series rings.
I really like this for the Diamondbacks. They gave up very little for a potentially above average 3B who still provides good defense and the potential for 30+ HR, even if it comes with a lot of K’s. As mentioned, he’s also a good clubhouse presence and is only guaranteed one more year on his contract. Much more solid stopgap for Lawlar than Emmanuel Rivera and Jace Peterson.
I’d like to think that both teams made this deal with full recognition of what they’re getting. In Vargas the M’s are getting a guy who throws with great velocity, but has been unable to harness his control and with Reno and Amarillo as the top farm clubs, perhaps felt that those environs weren’t great for working on those whereas the M’s have had a penchant on getting the most out of relievers that need development and in Zavala, they have a MLB defense oriented catcher as a reserve, which do not grow on trees (but perhaps as shrubs.,…)
The DBacks obtain a RHB that could be better than what they’ve had there before and the defense still plays, especially so on a team that is oriented to it. He provides, He also plays everyday, which is a big deal (more so if he’s doing well with the stick).
this is obviously a precursor to another move or signing, yes they subtracted about 400 k’s from the lineup. but they also subtracted 50 hr’s and 31 million $. I’m gonna hold judgement until we see the finished product and the lineup and pitching staff is set for 2024
This deal probably puzzles a lot of people, but Seattle’s projections for Eugenio weren’t likely pleasant. They wanted to cut down on Ks, 3B was one of the obvious spots where they could do that. The outfield corners were/are the others.
But the return….
It all suggests a salary dump, and fans are understandably disappointed with what we’ve seen so far, but let’s see what follows. Lots of offseason left.
Can everyone please stop the Chapman to the M’s convos? Please? Chapman is going to get too many years and too much money from some other team. That’s not Dipoto’s way. If anything, he’s got a plan to overpay in prospects to supplement their increasingly diminished 2024 hopes…..
1. SS JP Crawford
2. CF Julio Rodriguez
3. C Cal Raleigh
4. LF Jarred Kelenic
5. RF Dom Canzone
6. 1B Ty France
7. DH Dylan Moore/haggerty/Caballero
8. 2B Luis Urias
9. 3B Josh Rojas
I’m getting sick to my stomach looking at that
Love our pitching but that lineup won’t even get us to 85 wins, let alone a playoff birth or WS contender…..
Looks like the only way of getting better is to concentrate on even better pitching while implementing hitting as you can.
Matt Chapman looks like a Seattle Mariners player.
I hope not. I’d rather have Geno at $11M than Chapman at $20M.
Works for me. Lawler at SS, Perdomo as utility infielder who can cover 2B, SS, and 3B.
As an Ms fan, this off-season is giving me an ice cream headache.
Don’t expect the Mariners to have their eventual lineup set at this point. Jerry Dipoto is never finished trading. We knew Teoscar Hernandez and Eugenio Suarez were going to be moved when Dipoto stated that they were going to reduce batter strike outs.
Always liked Geno. A good clubhouse presence, if nothing else, even in his down years.
Wish him luck in the desert.
Another disaster of grammar by Adams, who needs to be kicked to the curb. “Grisly as those numbers may be at fist glance” is not proper English. It has to be “AS grisly as those numbers may be at fist glance,” obviously. Come on, dummy. Grammar isn’t optional.
I thought Adams article was very good, content is the most important here. Snarky remarks are not well received even if you are the grammar police. Perhaps you had a traumatic experience that reflex your attitude good luck with that.
Why is it the Mariners always want to get rid of the veteran leadership guys? Graveman, Santana, Sewald,Suarez. Chemistry still matters doesn’t it?
Steve Adams, re. Grammar critique…
What is “fist glance”? Is it similar to “first glance”?
Please look in the mirror before criticizing others.
Terrible trade….we got nothing! Our terrible offense just got worse.
Now the worst trade in Mariners history. The trade that single handedly lost us a playoff spot. #FireDipoto