10:36AM: The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reports that the Phillies and Aaron Nola are “moving closer” on a reunion. The New York Post’s Jon Heyman and MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki also confirmed Nightengale’s report that talks between the sides have heated up in recent days.
9:55AM: The Phillies and right-hander Aaron Nola have both made clear a desire to see the righty ace return to Philadelphia on a long-term deal this offseason, dating back to before Nola was even officially a free agent. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale indicated this morning that there’s reason for optimism regarding a deal coming together between the two sides, noting that contract talks between the sides have “gained significant momentum” in recent days.
That, of course, doesn’t mean that an agreement between the two sides is imminent or even necessarily close, but it’s a notable development nonetheless. After all, it was just last week that reporting from MLB Network’s Jon Morosi indicated the sides were “not at all close” to a new deal while The Athletic’s Jayson Stark suggested that Phillies may not “go all out” to retain Nola, adding that interest from rival clubs made a seventh year on Nola’s contract possible. That’s a level the Phillies reportedly weren’t willing to go to in extension talks last spring, though it’s possible that the club has changed its tune since then.
Nightengale’s report goes on to suggest that Nola’s camp is seeking a seven-year, $210MM deal while the Phillies have countered with a six-year, $150MM offer at this point. Those price points are substantially closer than the four-to-five year pact that the Phillies reportedly offered Nola last offseason and the eight-year counter from Nola’s camp. That apparent progress in reaching a deal appears all the more encouraging with Nightengale suggesting that the sides are “getting close to finding a middle ground” between the two figures.
With one year and $60MM separating the two offers, there’s plenty of room for the sides to meet somewhere in the middle. Of note, the Phillies’ reported offer to Nola comes in just $12MM under the total guarantee left-hander Carlos Rodon secured from the Yankees last offseason over the same term, meaning virtually any movement from Philadelphia would allow Nola to secure a guarantee above that of Rodon. Speculatively speaking, the Phillies could offer Nola a higher AAV than Rodon over the same term if they’re unwilling to offer a seven-year deal to Nola, who will celebrate his 31st birthday next summer. Such a deal could fall in the $168MM to $180MM range in terms of total guarantee.
A seven-year pact would see Nola turn 37 in the final year of the deal. That’s an age the Phillies have shown a willingness to sign position players through: superstar first baseman Bryce Harper and marquee shortstop Trea Turner are signed through their age-38 and -40 seasons, respectively. That being said, the club hasn’t shown the same appetite for deals that would take pitchers into their late thirties. Zack Wheeler signed with the club on a five-year deal to become Nola’s co-ace in the Phillies rotation, though that deal will see him hit the open market next offseason following his age-34 campaign. That’s the same age former Phillies lefty Cole Hamels was signed through when he extended with the club back in 2012.
Even a six-year pact would be breaking new ground for the Phillies; while the club signed Hall of Famer Roy Halladay through his age-36 season, that deal was for just three years and $60MM. That’s a far cry from the nine-figure deal Nola figures to land. What’s more, any movement from the Phillies’ current price point of six years and $150MM would take Nola’s contract above what MLBTR projected for the right-hander in our annual Top 50 free agents list.
Despite all of this, it’s easy to see why the Phillies would make such a plunge to retain Nola’s services. Nola’s spent nine years with the club serving as a homegrown ace since his debut with the club back in 2015. In that time, he’s compiled a career 3.72 ERA (113 ERA+) and 3.38 FIP with a 27.2% strikeout rate. Since his breakout 2018 campaign where he earned his first career All Star appearance and finished third in NL Cy Young award voting, Nola has been even more impressive with a 3.65 ERA and 28% strikeout rate. On top of that quality production, Nola is among the most durable pitchers in the entire sport: he’s thrown more than 180 innings and made at least 32 starts in each of the last five 162-game seasons. Only Yankees ace Gerrit Cole has thrown more innings since the start of the 2018 campaign, while only Cole, Wheeler, Max Scherzer, and Jacob deGrom have accumulated more fWAR than Nola’s 25.5 figure since then.
Should Nola and the Phillies ultimately come together on a new contract, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski has previously indicated that the club’s starting rotation will be set for the 2024 campaign, likely taking Philadelphia out of the rotation market for the rest of the offseason. If a deal between the sides doesn’t get done, however, the club figures to be aggressive in looking to replace Nola with NPB star Yoshinobu Yamamoto among the club’s reported hypothetical targets. Jordan Montgomery, Blake Snell, and Sonny Gray are among the other potential top-of-the-rotation arms to be had on the free agent market, though Stark reports the club is “lukewarm” on Snell. The trade market could hold other alternatives to Nola for the Phils, such as Brewers ace Corbin Burnes or White Sox righty Dylan Cease.
Simm
I think the phillies keep Nola. Both sides seem to want each other. So why go spend a ton a money to replace him.
roob
I’m thinking the Phillies will resign him soon. Probably something like a 7 yr deal at about $24 mil per avg.
mlbnyyfan
If Phillies are truly all in sign Nola and Snell.
Wheeler Dealer
The best deal he is offered will come from Phillies
TrillionaireTeamOperator
I think it winds up as like 6 years/$180M guaranteed w/ $10M of that as a buyout on a $40M option that could take it to 7 years/$210M.
Which is nuts to me. He is not a $27M or a $30M AAV pitcher and 6-7 years seems way too long.
I think he’s around a $23M AAV pitcher and his deal shouldn’t be for more than 3-4 years. And I’m being generous.
But pitching is at a serious premium nowadays…
Tom
“The grass is always greener.”
Nola may not be a Cy Young caliber pitcher but he’s certainly very good, makes his starts, and provides consistency. How many teams in baseball would love to have Nola as their number two? Should $5M per year really make that much of a difference to a team like the Phillies—with World Series aspirations and a payroll in the top five of baseball?
jumps
“Doing something twice expecting the same outcome is the epitome of insanity.”
Your words are that Nola is a very good pitcher. Would you want your team paying a very good pitcher $30M AAV? Chances are, probably not? The issue here is the Phillies have backed themselves into a corner. Harper is expecting the team to spend and compete every year.
The Phillies have said outside of maybe CF, they’re rolling into next year with the same lineup. You’re not getting upside with Nola. Nola isn’t going to become a 22 game winner and do something we’ve never seen before. He’s shown his upside and you’re only paying for his current state and his decline.
He’s a very good #2 inning eater who has a bad postseason reputation and is a bad pitcher with runners on base. The issue is that outside of Yamamoto and maybe Snell (depending on how you feel). There’s no logical upgrade for Nola. Yamamoto is going to get a lot of money offered to him by teams in markets that are more attractive to Asian players. And they don’t have a farm system to compete with teams who may push for a trade. They’ll easily get outbid if they try to trade for someone like Cease, Bieber, Singer, etc. if any of those types of pitchers become available in the trade market.
If they refuse to trade and change their lineup. They need to do it with their rotation. But they’re limited.
Tom
Well, Nola didn’t get $30M per year, but in today’s market, yeah, $30MAAV is not a huge overpay. iIt’s the cost of doing business. Also, Nola has not been bad in the post-season; actually, if you look at their numbers, Nola and Snell have almost identical numbers in the postseason. Don’t see a problem with this signing.
The Phillies shouldn’t be done. They do need to address the bullpen and offense (and I’d love them to get another starter as well). However, I believe a big part of the offensive issues are lineup-based. Having Schwarber lead off is fun when he turns on one and gives them a 1-0 lead, but more than anything else, he’s walking back to the dugout after striking out. They can do much better.
VonPurpleHayes
He’s getting around 24aav, not 30.
filihok
TTO
“I think he’s around a $23M AAV pitcher and his deal shouldn’t be for more than 3-4 years. And I’m being generous.”
Well, you’d never sign a free agent
I’ll bang the drum again
Provide your evidence that that’s what his value is
:awaits cricket chirps
Big whiffa
A brutha can dream thou can’t he ? It’s the comment section of mlb trade rumors. Not a gm text message chain
Big whiffa
TTO,
You aren’t taking into consideration inflation and market conditions. True there’s a lot of pitchers available at the moment, but still more large market teams then pitchers. So 27+ is price tag and he will get it from Philz or someone else.
I thought someone else due to how that’s usually how things work when it gets to this point of negotiations but u can’t ever count phili out
Ma4170
I feel like you’re being tough on him. His down years in ERA came from unusually low strand rates. He’s a solid number 2 who pitches like an ace for stretches. Career 3.72/1.13, 4.26 k/bb, 3.48 siera, 3.32 xfip… for any stat, he’s a top 15 mlb sp.
RSmith
“a desire to see the righty ace return to Philadelphia on a long-term deal this offseason, dating back to before Nola was even officially a free agent”
So for more than 2 weeks. Lol.
steelerbravenation
Money is too rich for the Braves for my liking.
AA needs to move on to Gray & Gurriel in FA
Then trade for Freddy Peralta.
getrealgone2
Is Freddy available and what do the braves even have to offer?
steelerbravenation
Grissom plus prospect
I.M. Insane
Thirty mil a year is absurd for someone like Nola.
BrettPhillips for Prezident
My thoughts exactly. No chance my cardinals pull the trigger unless that price is significantly lowered
This one belongs to the Reds
Absurd for a pitcher, period. They only make 32 starts now, and that’s if they miss zero time.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
I can see the Braves coming in and taking Nola. Especially after all the bizarre moves. Evidently there’s money to be spent.
Cincyfan85
$150m for 6 years would be my cap. If he wants more, I’d just pass. You have to draw the line at some point. The Padres especially could have used a line the last few years.
kabphillie
If Nola’s less accomplished year was because of adjusting to the pitch clock, there is reason to be hopefully he can make the contract look good for at least a few years.
VonPurpleHayes
He also doesn’t rely on velocity, so he should age better than most.
WiffleBall
And I actually see him getting better as his velocity decreases. He’s a crafty pitcher.
CarverAndrews
I am torn, as I think that many Phans are when the numbers are thrown around. I love Nola, and value him more than most – but the risk is inestimably higher when it comes to this contract.
If they were the favorites for Yamamoto, it would be one thing. Barring that, I think that they have to retain Aaron. They will get some really good years from him and they need to fill that #1/2 role given their current state of the team. Just get it done, and move on to other business.
VonPurpleHayes
There’s a significant drop off after Nola, Yamamoto and Snell. I think in order to compete in 24, the Phillies absolutely need 1 of the 3, and Nola seems more likely than the others. They will all cost a ton. It’s the market.
RSmith
Montgomery > Nola
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t think so, but certainly in 2023.
pohle
i rank the starters in the order of yamamoto(upside), nola, montgomery, gray, snell. i think snell peaked this last season and will be a poor investment wherever he goes, but the other four would surprise me if their value tailed off early. nolas value seems to maximize with the phillies, and other than that the dodgers, braves, red sox, cubs and rangers are the teams i see playing at that level of the market.
RSmith
“I dont think so, but certainly in 2023”
And in 2021. Nola seems to be inconsistent. Montgomery isnt. If Im signing someone to a long-term contract, I’ll take consistency.
Dont get me wrong, Nola is a great pitcher, but I dont see how you think “There’s a significant drop off after Nola, Yamamoto and Snell”.
VonPurpleHayes
Fair point. Put Montgomery in that same crop, although I rank him as the 4th best. TBH, I just assume he’s staying put.
jumps
Von, while I agree with you. There’s a level of frustration I have (and maybe others do?) that they’re going to run it back and expect a different outcome next year with the same team. The Phillies have seen the best of Nola. He’s not going to go through some Scherzer level renaissance. And while I appreciate the durability, even guys who don’t rely so much on velocity. Innings catch up with those guys also.
The second that reports of the Phillies trading Castellanos were shot down. In my mind, the Phillies had to throw every egg in the basket of Yamamoto or Snell. My preference is YY. Phillies fans have been spoiled with the spending and upheaval in the winter ever since Harper arrived. But just replacing Craig Kimbrel and Johan Rojas imo is not enough. Let alone if you’re dedicating 30M AAV to Nola.
They’re still at best the 2nd best team in their division and they’ll have to keep doing the wild card run every year if they sign Nola. They’re tied to Harper and as long as he’s in Philly. They are expected to spend. With all due respect, Nola should be the fall back option for the Phillies. I don’t think he should be the #1 priority.
Although, maybe the Phillies try to upgrade at backup catcher. With Aaron’s brother being non-tendered by San Diego. I wonder if they’ll sign him to be Aaron’s dedicated catcher since Aaron doesn’t throw to JT? That would at least setup for a cool story for next year.
Saint Nick
Yikes. Good luck with that Phillies.
meckert
The Phillies need Nola more than he need them.
This one belongs to the Reds
Anyone who gives a pitcher more than a three year deal is asking for trouble, especially at his age.
Nola’s camp should take that offer and run.
Good luck, Phillies. You’ll need it.
VonPurpleHayes
Scherzer’s deal with the Nationals is arguably the best FA signing of all time, but the circumstances were significantly different. It’s a risk for sure.
NashvilleJeff
@Von: I’ll take the Greg Maddux $28M deal he signed w/the Braves after the 92 season as the best FA pitcher signing of all time. At the time, it was the largest FA deal ever signed by a pitcher.
jumps
If this is true, then it means a few things may be true…
1. It lends credence to Stark’s reporting that the Phillies have little/no interest in Snell and Hader. The Phillies need back of the bullpen help too. And this likely means they’ll target more of the second and third tier relievers rather than guys looking for true closer jobs like Hader and Hicks.
2. They have legitimate interest in Yamamoto. But being so aggressive on Nola before YY’s posting window means they believe the money will be crazy and/or YY truly has little interest in the East Coast outside of maybe Boston or New York. Also, this probably means some of those smaller, dark horse franchises like Arizona are out unless they offer some absurd short term bloated AAV contract with opt outs.
3. There’s a cap/limit to teams that are interested in Nola and what they’re willing to spend. Snell factors to be in the same range of contract demands and AAV. Even more by having 2 Cy Young awards. So teams like the Braves, Cardinals, Cubs, may end up spending in the next tier of pitching (Gray, Montgomery). It also likely means that Snell is probably going to push/surpass the Rodon contract from last year. And that likely pushes the Yankees away from him unless they fail to land Yamamoto.
Personally, I think 7 years is absurd for any starter on this market with the exception of Yamamoto given his stuff and age. The Phillies are kind of in the middle of a rock and a hard place. They need to spend money and compete for a title. It’s what they’ll keep doing until Harper begins to decline. But signing Nola doesn’t make them a better team than they were last year. He’s shown to be a durable starting pitcher with top of the rotation upside. But he’s entering his 30s, the amount of innings on his arm will catch up to him eventually. He’s shown to be a subpar postseason pitcher and still has not shaken his reputation for being a bad pitcher with runners on base.
They’re almost forced into this deal because their farm system is still rather weak and they probably can’t swing a trade for a true ace. And chances are the only real FA upgrade the Phillies have over Nola (Yamamoto) has interest from so many other bigger clubs. There’s no guarantee he wants to consider Philly and they likely would need to pay much much more than a team like the Dodgers, Angels, Mets, Yankees, and Red Sox to even start a discussion.
cpdpoet
My breakfast tastes a little bit better all of the sudden. Maybe I’ll have that 3rd cup of coffee after all. Hopefully this gets done to a point where both sides feel good. I did believe that Nola wants to stay in Philly, but it looked like he was headed elsewhere with all the recent static.
ih8tepaperstraws
Nola was never leaving Philli. He’s comfortable there, the fans love him. He’s one of those career with one club fan icons like Adam Wainwright. Nola should be first off the board. That’ll leave Yamamoto for the Mets and Snell for the Cubs. Montgomery stays with Texas and Mike Maddox and Gray to the Padres. Pitching market closed.
htbnm57
It’s done with the Phillies 7/$170m
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Sounds like the reports are the Braves drove the price up on Nola.
NashvilleJeff
It was reported on Sports Talk Atlanta (for whatever that’s worth) that Nola had a higher offer from another team but wanted to stay in Philly. His agent probably drove the price up by claiming he had “higher offers.”
pirateking24
I think he gets 7 years $175 million.