The Cardinals added the first two of what they expect to be at least three starting pitchers this week, agreeing to a reunion with veteran righty Lance Lynn on a one-year deal worth a guaranteed $11MM and another one-year deal with Kyle Gibson worth $12MM. They’ll still look to add another arm, be it via free agency or trade. Among the more high-profile names they’re considering, per Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, are NPB ace Yoshinobu Yamamoto and AL Cy Young runner-up Sonny Gray. Goold’s report was published prior to the Cardinals’ agreement with Gibson, though it’s hard to imagine a one-year deal for a veteran innings eater would derail the club’s plans for higher-profile targets.
Pursuits of both right-handers were generally expected from a Cardinals club looking to add as many as three starting pitchers this winter — with at least one playoff-caliber arm among the presumed preferences. Goold has previously linked the Cards and Yamamoto, and he now writes that Yamamoto does not have any geographical preferences as he tests MLB free agency. He’s open to pitching on either coast or somewhere in between.
Despite his lack of MLB experience, the 25-year-old Yamamoto is widely projected to land the largest contract of any non-Shohei Ohtani pitcher this offseason. He’s considered by big league scouts to be a potential No. 1 or 2 starter in North American ball, and his combination of age and sterling track record make him an excessively rare type of free agent. Yamamoto has won the Sawamura Award, Japan’s equivalent of the Cy Young Award, in three consecutive seasons and just wrapped up a career-best campaign with a 1.21 ERA. He’s posted a sub-2.00 ERA in four of the past five seasons in NPB, fanning more than 27% of his opponents against a pristine 5.7% walk rate during that stretch.
Bidding on Yamamoto is expected to be fierce, perhaps pushing north of $200MM. (MLBTR ranked Yamamoto second among this offseason’s free agents and predicted a nine-year, $225MM deal.) He’s already drawn interest from a wide array of teams, reportedly including the Phillies (even after re-signing Aaron Nola), D-backs, Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, Blue Jays, Giants, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs and surely more.
Gray, 34, would be a less-expensive but still high-profile upgrade to the St. Louis staff. He finished second to Gerrit Cole in American League Cy Young voting this season on the heels of a 2.79 ERA in 184 innings for the AL Central-champion Twins. He rejected a qualifying offer at season’s end, so he’d cost the Cards a draft pick and $500K of their international bonus pool, though for a pitcher of his track record, that’s perhaps not a detriment.
Gray’s age figures to limit the length of offers he ultimately commands. It’d be somewhat surprising to see him sign for more than four years, as even a four-year pact would run through his age-37 season — an age at which teams have tended to cap long-term deals in free agency. Gray is also on the radar for the Phillies, Braves and Red Sox. The Twins have voiced that they’d love to keep Gray as well — and Gray has said publicly that interest in a return is mutual — but with Minnesota expected to scale back payroll by around $10-20MM amid uncertainty regarding their television rights deal, it’s tough to envision them making the top bid.
In addition to their ongoing free-agent pursuits, the Cards are well-positioned to explore the trade market for potential rotation help. The team still generally has a glut of young position players, with more names on the roster than at-bats to go around. Dylan Carlson, Tyler O’Neill, Lars Nootbaar, Jordan Walker, Alec Burleson, Brendan Donovan, Tommy Edman, Nolan Gorman, Masyn Winn and Ivan Herrera simply don’t all have paths to regular playing time — particularly with veterans like Nolan Arenado, Paul Goldschmidt and Willson Contreras locked into the infield corners and catching duties.
As has been the case dating back to the summer, the Cardinals appear open to trading O’Neill and Carlson, per Katie Woo of The Athletic. However, just as it was last offseason and this past summer, Nootbaar is expected to stay in St. Louis. The 26-year-old hit .261/.367/.418 last year and cemented himself as the team’s center fielder. Injuries have limited Nootbaar in his early career, but he’s proven he can draw walks at an elite level while displaying intriguing batted-ball metrics and showing enough pop to top 20 homers per year if he can avoid the injured list. Add in his speed and ability to play all over the outfield, and he’s a valuable player whom the Cards understandably view as a core piece.
It’s not long ago that Carlson was viewed as a core piece, but after a pair of lackluster seasons at the dish, it seems the Cards are largely ready to move on from the one-time top prospect. It was something of a surprise that the switch-hitting center fielder wasn’t traded at the deadline, and it’d be even more surprising if he went the whole offseason without changing hands. The 25-year-old Carlson has batted .230/.316/.364 over the past two seasons — a far cry from the .266/.343/.437 output he turned in back in 2021. With three seasons of club control remaining and a projected $1.8MM salary in arbitration (via MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz), he should still draw interest.
That said, it’s doubtful a trade of Carlson or O’Neill (a free agent next winter looking to rebound from a down year) can command the type of rotation upgrade that now looks increasingly necessary after signing Lynn and Gibson. If the Cards are indeed focused on upgrading the top half of their staff, they’d perhaps need to make more controllable members of the roster available. Woo writes, however, that the Cards “prefer to hang onto” infielders Nolan Gorman and Brendan Donovan. Presumably, first baseman/outfielder Alec Burleson is in the mix of names that could be moved, but his own lackluster production through his first 400 MLB plate appearances (plus his limited defensive ceiling) has probably deflated his stock a bit.
All in all, it’s a bit surprising that the Cards jumped the market for a pair of back-end innings eaters. Doing so ensured the stable, bulk innings the front office no doubt coveted, but it also only ratchets up the pressure to come away with a more meaningful upgrade at the front of the group. “More moves to come,” president of baseball operations John Mozeliak said today, per Goold.
It doesn’t look like Jordan Montgomery will be signing with the Cardinals now.
He was never going to come back.
Definitely. Gibson and Lynn are major upgrades over Monty, right? Lol.
This is sad, may be pathetic
Jimbo – I just think it’s kinda cool that Hirokazu Sawamura is the Cy Young of Japan. He sure didn’t pitch that way for the Red Sox.
We were in last place when we had Monty. Not that it was his fault. But i think the idea is we want someone even better.
Well these two signings don’t accomplish that.
Exactly. Lynn and Gibson are washed. Monty was at least serviceable.
he’s going to have a dozen high 8-9 figure offers to choose from. still a chance he ends up back in the Bronx, though.
I’d say the chance is zero since Cashman has already said that Montgomery isn’t good enough for the postseason but then the Yankees probably won’t be in the postseason so it could work out just fine.
The Cardinals are good enough to get to the postseason? Are you jumping up and down over the signings of Lynn and Gibson?
Best in their current rosters, sure. But it’s not even Thanksgiving yet lol, bizarre to conclude an offseason is finished this early.
Just how many starters do you expect the Cardinals to sign? This year’s team will be just as bad if not worse with the four already slotted for the rotation. They are lying about competing this year.
Monty had a much better postseason than any of the Yankees.
Huge signing and trades coming soon. Next headline, Cardinals sign Lucas Giolito. Then tomorrow, Cardinals trade for Patrick Corbin. Mo’s promise of 3 starters over-performed.
If they are going after Yamamoto or Gray/Monty they will probably dump salary by trade elsewhere. I very seriously doubt they set a franchise record high payroll. Seems more likely they will not get a top arm by FA and instead try to find front-rotation help by trade, in my uninformed opinion.
Originally I would agree. But not now. They are clearing space for a FA addition. Maybe they can get Yamamoto. But if not then Gray. Negotiating fluctuates. At first I didn’t know if the Braves might outbid for Gray, but when Yamamoto enters the picture and the Braves are a bit hamstrung by the cap, then a little pressure goes on to the Gray camp. I don’t believe other teams other than the Braves can outbid the Cards.
They are going to have to clear out a lot of salary somewhere else if they just spent $20M on Lynn and Gibson. Who do you think gets cleared out, or do you think they are gonna blow past the $177M mark to do it?
They obviously want to move O’Neil and Carlson and that’s it. Those guys aren’t going to get a TOR arm. Maybe/hopefully they want to land Yamamoto or Gray and flip those guys for some bullpen arms.
Yamamoto/Gray, Mikolas, Matz, Lynn and Gibson, with the others we have in support, wouldn’t be a disaster, but would still be disappointing. Would rather have only taken one of Gibson/Lynn, sign a bigger FA and trade for a legit 1 or 2 guy, even if you have to move an infielder.
oddly enough, I could see a Matz trade to someone needing a starter but on a budget. I think O’Neill gets moved but only if he’s attached to a better prospect or 2. Those 2 moves would free up 15-16 mill.
Those two would be lucky to bring back a lottery ticket prospect.
I totally agree. Maybe the GM is filling the rotation from the back forward, then he’ll have an excuse when he can’t sign a big time starter..money’s gone. I’m not a Cards fan so I could care less, it just amazes me how some of these clowns keep their jobs.
yeah, trading Matz and O’Neill is to free up additional salary for a top arm. I was saying that StL would have to include a couple of good prospects to get back anything of value for either.
Could see a salary swap kinda deal to get out of the Matz contract. He’s owed $12MM this coming year. STL could use bullpen help.
Maybe they take a 1 year flier at $7MM in Mark Melancon from Arizona for Matz. Melancon didn’t pitch this year but it’d save $5MM.
Arizona’s saved money makes it effectively a 2/17 which is reasonable for Matz, and they need rotation help. It’s at least a cool framework to think about. Gurriel is a RH OF for them that just hit FA. Maybe they’d take O’Neill and throw in a prospect or two as well.
Pretty sure Arizona declined their option on Melancon, making him a free agent.
Melancon is a FA. Gurriel is solid, not spectacular but he is also a FA
I could see a Matz trade to someone needing a starter but on a budget.
====================
As a RS fan, I would take Matz (at a discount), assuming we get someone like YY as our primary. Matz has a 4.06/3.77 ERA/FIP over the past three years. I’m just not sure how paying Lynn and Gibson more than Matz, for a worse performance, would help you.
As it stands, Matz projects to be the Cardinals top starter.
Oh I didn’t know they had an option. Thanks for the heads up gojira!
This is classic Mo move. First don’t cry poor, small market BS with 3mm fannies in the seats every year. ZERO chance he signs Yamamoto and probably Sonny Gray., Cease, no chance as they will want Walker, Hence, Gorman et all…Mo will offer Carlson, O’Neill, and some other bum!! Don’t get me started on Lynn, an absolutely horrible pitcher approaching 40. Twenty- four will be ‘23 2.0. We have become laughable
Because it’s what ownership is telling them to do.
They’re worth more than that. Carlson is only 25 with three years of control. He was an average CF until this year. The Carlson hate never ceases to amaze me
Nobody else can outbid the cardinals, is that what you meant to say? First off plenty of teams have, and are willing to spend, more than StL…watch out for Texas..if they want him they’ll make it happen.
Why not? Even if only in small increments, they set a franchise high payroll almost every year. (2021 was a significant exception, but there were very good reasons for that.) They will spend close to as much as last year’s Opening Day payroll at the very least.
They are at 170M right now. Last year was their highest ever at 177M. If they trade Oneill and Carlson that brings them back to maybe 165. They would have to go to ~190M opening day payroll to bring in the best arm remaining in Yamamoto. Maybe they will, I just doubt it.
Maybe not, but I’m just contradicting what you initially said about not setting a new franchise high payroll, as even $178M would technically do so.
They might slightly increase ot, but $178M payroll isn’t going to bring in a frontline starter through free agency. We will see what Mo does, should be interesting.
No chance the cards sign Yamamoto.
No chance they sign Yamamoto
I have been super critical of this FO recently. I like both of these moves individually but don’t think they make much of a dent as a whole with the rotation. That being said, I will give Mo the benefit of time if, when he says “more moveS to come” he means it. If that’s the case and we are actually protecting our innings and not relying on this current group to front a rotation, then I’m all in on Gibson and Lynn.
St. Louis ranked 26th in starter’s ERA last season. And here—with Lynn and Gibson—bet on it again. What a scrap heap rotation.
The more I look at the Cardinals moves over the past handful of years, the more I believe Lunhow was the brains of the operation, not Mo.
The signing of Contreras to replace Molina was monumentally dumb. I wasn’t a fan of Contreras behind the plate when he was in Chicago and to go from a pitcher whisperer like Molina to Contreras had disaster written all over it. No Cub fan was shocked to see that rotation underwhelm last year.
Contreras was and is a good player. He’s not the problem. The problem is Marmol.
His lack of rapport with pitchers IS the problem. Catchers cannot be judged by stats or WAR. It’s an intangible position, the pitcher/catcher connection is more valuable than rbis or anything a catcher does with the bat.
He did not lack a rapport with pitchers that’s made up nonsense. Flaherty is a flake. Marmol is a clown. Contreras was and is not the problem.
It wasn’t signing Contreras that was dumb. It was walking away from a trade for Murphy. Regardless, their problems existed long before Molina left and fans started scapegoating Contreras. The PoBO has traded away cy young winners and candidates along with outfielders who crushed it the playoffs.
Well, considering the asking price for Murphy at the time, I don’t blame them for walking away
Yet for every Arozerena, Alcantara, and Gallen, there’s a Goldschmidt, Arenado, Holliday, O’Neill, Lackey, Gallegos, Quintana, Montgomery, etc. The front office has a very good overall record with their trades.
@Lanidrac, we traded Marco Gonzales for O’Neill. SEA got 5 years of very solid pitching from him. STL got 1 great season from Tyler so far. We lost that trade.
I was a little surprised they decided to tender O’Neill. One could definitely make the argument for a non-tender or including him with another player in a trade. Maybe that will happen this offseason since it’s still early.
So you’re saying that Lars Nootbaar,,(overrated 4th OF at best) Brendan Donovan ( utility player on a team with multiple utility players making him tradable) or Gordon Graceffo was too much? That’s crazy. I don’t understand their love affair with Lars. They should have learned their lesson with their love affair of the untouchable Dylan Carlson who they are basically going to give away and sell low on.
That’s insanely dumb lmao. Nootbar is not underrated, you just don’t value walks and good defense. He had over 3 WAR in not even a full season. And the only reason Donovan is a “utility player” is because he’s versatile. He would be a starting second baseman on most teams. It would have been a massive overpay.
Not really. Gonzales has put up 10.1 WAR for the M’s. O’Neill has been worth 9.5 WAR for us. About the same, and the trade made a lot of sense for us at the time. If O’neill can net us a decent reliever in a trade this off-season, I think we narrowly won that trade
Yeah Contreras is a good player but he’s also a hot head, quite often plays out of control and doesn’t have a clue how to work with a pitching staff..he’s also way over paid as just a DH, his production isn’t all that.
Contreras has value as a utility player, not so much as a starting catcher.
We don’t know that he’s bad with the pitching staff
Riiiiiight… “we” don’t.
You don’t know either. All we know is that the pitchers were struggling and Contreras was thrown under the bus. But after he returned to catching, pitcher ERA was about the same between him and Knizner, who supposedly was good at game calling (which would be the only thing he was really good at.)
Yeah, cause Molina was so docile and level headed.
Lotta faith Herrera. We will see.
I’m with ya. Grew up a Cards fan and now also a M’s fan. Mo and Dipoto both suck.
I’d say DiPoto is at least not crapping the bed…
Crapped the bed last offseason.. probably gonna do it again with a few platoon bats and thats it. Hope I’m wrong!
Not sure, but a Yamamoto signing would pretty much insure you are correct. Because the Cards are now suppossedly driven by analitics, whatever that means, I don’t think they are considering deep outings from a lot of starters. If so they better trade for a couple of quality relievers known to go múltiple innings.
Every team is driven by “analytics.” And these two signing indicate they DO want a lot of innings out of their starters
Well yeah. Here is what is nonsense. Baseball is too complicated for numbers
No one thinks you can build a team on a spreadsheet, but analytics are extremely important. Teams that were slow to adopt them struggled mightily for a long time.
I think Lynn was signed mainly as a reliever option who can also make starts as needed. If so, there could be another free agent sign coming along with a big trade for another……someone like Glasnow or Cease via trade.
I’ve been saying this also. I think it means either they’re looking at Matz in the pen or both him and Lynn. I’m going to try to be optimistic until or unless they prove otherwise.
I just want to point out when have the Cardinals EVER knowingly paid middle RP / Spot starters 10-12 million a year? If Matz & Lynn suck sure they’ll use them as RP but they don’t giving them that kind of money to be a Spot starter or RP. Now could they possibly trade Matz sure I could see that. But everyone we have 4 starters right now. They are looking for one big fish via trade or FA then maybe a bullpen arm or 2 on the cheap. They are not going into this season with the mind set Lynn or Matz will be RP. Its just not happening. Is one of Gray, Yamamoto, Cease or Glasnow possible sure but only one. Maybe they’ll get Matsui for RP on 5 mil a year..
No way they go for Glasnow because he will cost $25m. Can’t trade for Cease because WSox just signed DeJong so the are capped out on StL garbage.
They aren’t trading for Glasnow or Bieber. They are both free agents after the year. Last place teams don’t trade for one year rentals.
You don’t spend that much money except for a starter or an elite closer.
that’s a good point. I just checked Matz’ salary and it’s 12.5 for each of the next 2 years. Plus, I think he’s better than Lynn or Gibson. There’s only room for 1 more starter unless they’re trading Matz.
Well, that was the problem this past season. A lot of people thought the Cardinals needed to sign another starter (personally, I thought the bigger need was for another reliever or two), but they didn’t do it, because they didn’t want to push Matz out of their projected starting 5.
I think they should just go for a total of 6 (or more including Thompson and Liberatore) and see how things go in Spring Training with performance and potential injuries as to which guys get the #4 and #5 spots to begin the season.
“More moves to come.”
– some delusional bow-tie wearing clown
23 million for two scrub pitchers is now 23 million they cannot spend on a top of the rotation piece. Yamamoto will take one look at that staff and realize he won’t win in St Louis. The cardinals haven’t had a plan in years. Finishing at the bottom of mlb will be their new normal for the next 5/10 years.
I’d rather they got Robbie Ray from the M’s with that much money. Ray will start pitching next year about mid-season and probably put up more war than those 2 combined.
I would love for the M’s to trade Ray. Any old bat will do
The Reds entire payroll is just $33 Million.
Lynn and Gibby replace Flaherty and Waino, and it’s not difficult to believe they will perform significantly better. Still need that ace though, and I believe it’s coming. I’m choosing to be optimistic.
Maybe they’re setting up to be able to use a six man rotation if they sign Yamamoto?
Just stop! It doesn’t matter which other pitcher the Cardinals sign. They can’t compete with the 4 they’ve assembled.
Stop pretending and go full rebuild.
Yamamoto, Mikolas, Gibson, Matz, Lynn isn’t a terrible rotation…
Yes it is. How people are still blind to what’s going on blows my mind. This team is bad in about every way possible. Defense, rotation, hitting when it matters. They are a 100 loss team and there isn’t enough they can do this year to move that number down all that much. Embrace the suck and enjoy the rebuild. We are going to get two top 5 draft picks the next two years. We have drafted that high in forever. Just think of the two super star players we can have as the next face of the franchises. Our chance to have a Jackson Holiday/Gunner Genderson or Acuna/Riley type combo. It’s been forever since we’ve had that.
Lmao, you are being absolutely hysterical, but ok.
It’s nice you’re optimistic about this years team. I too am optimistic that they are going to turn it around in 3-4 years and not 5-10. These moves are good starts to not be tied down with bad contracts and allow MO’s replacement to have plenty of roster spots to fill with his type of guys.
Not terrible, not very deep, but maybe enough to be competitive in the weak central. It’s terrible if they dont get Yamamoto tho, and I don’t think they will.
It’s actually pretty deep. That’s it’s strength. It’s weakness is having a bunch of 4/5 starters behind Yamamoto, but there’s lots of depth behind the starting five. Thompson, Liberatore, Graceffo, Rom, Kloffenstein, Robberse, etc…
I agree Jab. I guess what I meant by not deep isn’t from a bulk depth standpoint. They have that. Just not nearly enough at the front of a rotation to feel good about winning a playoff series.
They should, but they won’t, and do you really trust Mozeliak to do it properly at this point?
O’Neil has been trying to rebound after a down season for the last two years.
Yeah, because he’s been hurt or playing hurt for much of the last two seasons. If he actually stays healthy next year, he should still be one of the best overall LFs in MLB.
After signing 2 of the worst 4/5 starters available I’m sure frontliners like Gray & Yamamoto are excited to carry that burden. Fire Mozzarella!
They aren’t two of the worst 4/5 starters available lol. I don’t like that they signed both of them, but you’re being hysterical
Someone check on the Cardinals mgmt’s fax machine; apparently it’s just been plugged in & firing off 2018 FA contract offers!
Trading both O’Neill and Carlson would be dumb. You’d be selling low on both and leaving the outfield thin. I really don’t think they should trade Carlson. He was a 2 and half WAR CF in 2022 before injuries derailed him, and he’s only 25 years old. If he’s traded (like most Cards fans seem to want), he’ll probably settle in as a good player and the BFIB will never stop whining about it
The outfield is already thin. It’s weak defensively and has no RBI production. Chase Davis has RBI potential and should be up this year, but they won’t bring him up and it’s a big ask of him for year one. Other than him, there isn’t anyone on the roster to close enough to the majors to fill the need. Walking to first base is apparently a great skill. It doesn’t matter much though when you can’t get to second much less score.
Chase Davis was drafted this year.. Nootbar and Carlson are good defenders. O’Neill isn’t as good as he was, but still solid defender. Walker was pretty bad last year, but looked much better the second half of the season, and it was his first time ever playing OF
He was drafted this year. He turns 22 in a couple of weeks. He played 3 years in college and was a first round draft pick. He should be up by the end of the year.
Seems pretty optimistic, but we’ll see
I wouldn’t worry about it since no other teams wants them. All of the stories you hear about teams asking about either one of them all originate in St. Louis. Nice attempt to create a market but it isn’t going to work.
That isn’t true, but ok. At the very least, non-contender will try and pick up O’neill, betting on his upside and not taking any risk because of his low salary. Carlson is still 25 years old and was a 2-3 WAR CF from 2021-2022, and he’s only making $2mil. I’d rather keep him
I agree, you don’t trade switch hitters,with good speed and decent defense. He could go to the AL East with the softball stadiums and hit 50 homers!
Yamamoto isn’t coming to St. Louis. After the last two moves, no pitcher with options is coming to St Louis.
Yeah, they aren’t getting Yamamoto. I’m guessing a Giolito signing, then trading O’Neill and Carlson for a couple of minor league guys and a pair of possible relief options, either overpaid or unproven.
Sounds about right and that looks like another last place finish.
Oh come on! That’s at LEAST a 4th-place finish!
Don’t think so
I am a Reds fan, be that as it may, the only team the Cardinals needs to beat out next season is maybe the Cubs. Craig Counsel’s move to the North side hurts the Brewers,
more than it helps the Cubs. But Chicago may be willing to make a splash in free agency, the other teams in the division won’t. The Reds have a payroll sitting at $33 Million dollars. It will be under $30 Million if they trade Jonathon India which they are likely to do. I just don’t see the Pirates challenging for the NL Central title.
St.louis have great fans and are really the only team in the division that’s spend money on a regular basis. Appreciate what you have because there are a lot of us out here who may not see another pennant in our lifetime.
Thanks for this. The so-called “best fans in baseball” need this outside perspective. Reds look like they could be pretty good in a year or two.
No trade suggestions?? Jordan walker could net ALOT !
I’ll stop following if they start trading the promising young players.
That’s what I’ve said in the past! Trade Walker!
Cards lost 91 and had terrible pitching. The 2 guys so far are a small upgrade, but an upgrade none the less. Maybe they swing 6 games back to a win. That’s 85 lost. Sign an ace for 6 more. Back over .500 without addressing the bullpen. On the right track so far but they have work yet to do.
So far the Cardinals have a worse rotation going into next year. The won’t have 7 months of Montgomery. Flaherty was at least as good as the two they’ve signed.
At least with these guys you know they will take the ball their time around and you don’t have to rely on Hudson, Woodford, Libertore, etc. to pitch inning, which they have never proven to do so. They give you a decent chance to win in their 40% of the rotation. Tough to win when your starter goes 2 or 3 innings and gives up 6 runs.
But the two they signed should be better than Wainwright was last season.
This is a terrible franchise headed for a steep decline! These two signings are a joke. Terrible farm system that is top heavy and then falls off dramatically. Best players are in decline, role players are meh at best. Fair weather fans that they have will be crying every day and the rest of us will be laughing all season. Worst fans in baseball getting what they deserve. Enjoy last place for many years.
lmao. low effort trolling. 5/10
You must be kin with Einstein, maybe even MacGyver.
With the exception of Walker, every position player listed in this article should be on the table for pitching. The Cardinals need to clear the logjam and replenish their starting rotation.
I would exclude Walker either. I’ve seen 90% of his MLB at bats. To me he looks exactly like Jason Heyward, but right handed. Jason Heyward has had a very nice career, but looking at Heywards career at no point in time would you have been upset if you traded him away for a front line pitcher.
He hits the ball a lot harder than Heyward ever did
You should probably go to fan graphs and look at Heyward’s hard hit % and average EV and then look at Walker’s. Again they are very similar. And they don’t even have numbers for Heyward’s first 5 years.
Heyward and Walker couldn’t be more different except for how they look physically. You’re comparing a 15hr/yr bat to a very young rookie with 80 grade raw power. Walker could hit 40+ bombs a year in his prime. He was adjusting to major league pitching and learning to play the outfield at the same time this year. That’s hard. I don’t think the stats you’re comparing mean anything (yet).
The upside is massive (perennial allstar) but there’s definitely risk.. hit tool is a work in progress and he might just be a DH or 1B ultimately with zero defensive value. Still a franchise player type cornerstone to build around. I don’t think you can trade him for an expensive established frontline starter because that’s not worth it and their payroll is already maxed.
If the front office doesn’t want to wait or thinks the hit tool never comes, they should be offering him straight up for equally young, pre-arb pitchers with massive upside like Eury Perez.
They said the exaact same thing about Heyward when he was the number 1 prospect in all of baseball and debuted at 20 years old.
No they did not. Heyward was a defense first contact oriented prospect w minimal popped. The Braves hoped J-Hey would develop a power tool because of his size but it was never graded as such and obviously it never came. Heyward has one of the worst swings in baseball IMO and nobody ever managed to fix it. Walker is the exact opposite – a bopper w/ suspect contact skills and minimal defensive value. If you’re right you’re right, and you may be right on not missing him down the road, but it’s too soon to be calling them the same player from the year 1 stats of Walker to the year 5 stats of Heyward.
You couldn’t be further from the truth. Were you even following baseball in 2010? Here are two articles from back then that talk about Heyward’s tools. One compares him to Mike Stanton when they were both prospects stating Stanton had slightly more pop”
minorleagueball.com/platform/amp/2009/7/24/961747/…
si.com/mlb/2010/03/03/top-prospects
Heyward and Walkers swing look almost identical as well. It you’d have to actually watch both of them and do your homework on-them which you’ve twice now have shown you haven’t done. Heyward homered in his first big league at bat. You probably didn’t know that either.
Btw, I watched Heyward’s first at bat live. I’m guessing you were playing with legos
No need to get personal dude. Muted.
That’s all it took? These gen Zers are soft these days.
Cardinals are rebuilding but can not jeopardize their unusually large revenue % that comes from season ticket holder sales. This same issue prevented them from trading Goldy/Arenado at the break. They end up in this half-assed one foot in one foot out position.
There really isn’t any reason to go into a rebuild. They’re in good shape on the position player side. Don’t like signing both Lynn and Gibson at all, but if they get Yama or find a way to trade Matz + for Glasnow and sign Imanaga, they’d have a rotation probably capable of winning the central. Unless the Cubs spend a ton of money