The Cardinals announced the signing of Kyle Gibson to a one-year deal with a club option for 2025. The veteran right-hander will reportedly be guaranteed $12MM; the option value is still unreported. Gibson is a client of Rowley Sports Management.
Gibson, 36, spent 2023 with the Orioles on a one-year, $10MM deal. He took the ball 33 times for the O’s and logged 192 innings with an earned run average of 4.73. It’s possible that he deserved better results than that, as his 69.7% strand rate was a bit below average. He struck out just 19.5% of batters faced but limited walks to a 6.8% clip and kept 48.9% of balls in play on the ground. His 4.13 FIP and 4.40 SIERA paint a slightly more flattering portrait than his ERA.
Since as far back as August, Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak has been open about the club’s desire to add three starters to the rotation. That was in order to replace the departures of Adam Wainwright, who is now retired, and Jack Flaherty and Jordan Montgomery, who were traded at the deadline and are now free agents. There’s also some uncertainty with the in-house options, as Steven Matz has dealt with injuries and inconsistency of late while depth option Dakota Hudson was non-tendered last week when the club failed to find a trade for him. All that left Miles Mikolas and a heap of questions as the on-paper rotation.
But that was prior to this week. The Cards added another veteran innings eater yesterday, agreeing with Lance Lynn on a one-year deal. Between Lynn and now Gibson, it seems the club is starting out by building a foundation of reliability, more floor than ceiling. In each of the past nine full seasons, Gibson has made at least 25 starts, with 2016 being the only one of those seasons where he didn’t get to 29. He also made 12 starts in the shortened 2020 campaign. He’s only been on the injured list three times since his major league debut, dealing with a right shoulder strain in 2016, ulcerative colitis in 2019 and then a right groin strain in 2021. It’s a fairly similar situation with Lynn. He had knee surgery in 2022 and was limited to 21 starts, but apart from that, he’s made at least 28 starts in each full season dating back to 2012.
Lynn is coming off a down year, having allowed 44 home runs, leading to an ERA of 5.73. However, it’s possible that was a one-year blip, as he had a mark of 3.99 the year before, 2.69 in 2021 and 3.74 for his career. Gibson’s career ERA is 4.54 and he’s never been better than 3.62 in a single season, but as mentioned, his ability to take the mound every five days is quite strong. His 1,645 innings pitched dating back to 2014 are the fourth-most in baseball, trailing only Max Scherzer, Gerrit Cole and Zack Greinke.
Since the offseason began, the Cards have been connected to some of the top free agent arms available, such as Aaron Nola, Sonny Gray and Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Some fans may be disappointed by the additions of Lynn and Gibson on one-year deals but there’s nothing to indicate the door to a blockbuster has been closed by these moves. Gray and Yamamoto are still out there, as are plenty of other impactful starters. The Cards, meanwhile, should still have the money and opportunity for another pitcher.
The 2024 payroll is now set to be about $170MM, per Roster Resource, though some trades could perhaps drop that down a bit. The club is expected to look into moving a position player such as Tyler O’Neill, who has a projected salary of $5.5MM, or perhaps Dylan Carlson and his $1.8MM projection. Their franchise high payroll was last year’s $177MM, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but it’s possible they will give themselves a bit more wiggle room in order to get over their lackluster 2023 season.
Bob Nightengale of USA Today first reported that Gibson was signing with the Cardinals on a one-year deal with a 2025 club option. Jesse Rogers of ESPN was first with the $12MM guarantee.
Rotation shaping up
If AA is cooking.
Mo is microwaving.
I remember back in 2006 when the Cardinals had just opened a new stadium and had the best player on the planet and also a bunch of other guys on team friendly deals.
What were the Braves doing in 2006? I don’t recall.
Just ending a run of winning like 25 straight division titles not sure why anything from
2006 is relevant though. Oh right it isn’t.
Division titles? Well that’s something.
I am not sure why the Braves are relevant in a post about the Cardinals signing Gibson. That’s what I am not sure about.
Look on the bright side, Mo now has 3 of the top 5 pitchers to give up the most hits in MLB in 2023:
1) Miles Mikolas
4) Kyle Gibson
5) Lance Lynn (also, most HR)
He wants Goldy/Arenado to earn those GGs. Mo puttin’ together his own Murderer’s Row of a rotation.
@iverbure: Actually 14 straight. Still impressive, but nothing “like 25 straight.”
@RunDMC You can squint and sort of see the outline of a plan here. Not saying it’s necessarily a great plan, but it’s a plan. Keep the ball away from guys who put up a 5.75 ERA in 12 starts (assuming, in Lynn’s case). before you have to send them down. Keep the team in games.
B/t Wainwright, Woodford, and Rom the Cards in 2023 gave almost a 1/4 of their starts to guys who combined for an ERA roughly 7.00. Now, with studly #4-5 guys like Lynn and Gibson that (probably) isn’t a risk and they can get down to the business of assembling a team with a shot in a weak division–assuming the Brewers drop down a notch.
There’s a lot to be said for keeping terrible pitchers off the mound. Well, pitchers as bad as Wainwright. Could this backfire? Sure, horribly so. But they have to give those innings to someone and it looks like they aren’t sending payroll to $250 million.
They werent great but hits come with innings pitched there are some cy young candidates on the most hits of 23 top 10.
Funny you bring up 2006. The rotation outside of Carpenter was straight trash. Are you suggesting they can replicate that?
Another scrap heap addition
Mo, a dumpster diver in a bowtie
Gibby is solid, but Cards clearly shopping at the discount store this offseason.
That’s the Cardinal way. It’s about putting at least 3 million people in the stands every year, but most importantly, profits for billionaire Bill Dewallet.
$22MM for those two doesn’t sound like a discount to me. Doubt they expected offers while real options were still on the market.
@VonPurpleHayes Probably so, but in a transitional year, one in which they need bulk innings even more than the Mets do, aiming to round out the back of the rotation with 40 starts with an ERA around 4.50-4.75 rather than 7.00 as in 2023 and declining to spend big and waste a year off the front of a #1-2 starter’s deal, is a sensible plan. Payroll almost starts over in 2025. Goldy’s gone then. It’ll be Mikolas and Matz’s last year. If they don’t think they’ll be serious contenders for the postseason in 2024, and with just a middling farm system, this is a respectable approach. I’m just not so sure they’ll get from Lynn a pitcher similar in results to Gibson, that’s to say a solid #4. It wouldn’t be all that surprising to see both pitchers turn out to be unplayable in 2024. The O’s defense was very good in ’23 but Gibson’s ERA was still 4.73.
Should have seen this coming. Are they saving for a big splash?
Doubtful, best bet is trade for cease, Bieber or Glasnow
@Bnickles127
More like Wacha, Giolito, Clevinger. I said this when everybody had Nola walking through that door.
all three can be great when healthy, Wacha we’ve seen this for the past two years, Giolito when he was on a competing ChiSox team & Clevinger had a whole haul for him and Greg Allen a few years back showing he does have some value, which he can be good if has the right tools.
I NEVER wanted Nola though. No. 4 SP caliber stats. in 2 of last 3 seasons so commit “Ace” $ to him for 7 YEARS?!?!?!?! No thanks. I’d’ve been ANGRIER at that deal than these. At least these are LIKELY to only be 1-year deals.
Had some value two years ago.
@krhuff Nola, a #4? 6 to 1 K BB ratio, 1.077 H/9. You don’t actually follow the game, do you?
Veeerrry interesting.
From “Sonny Gray and Jordan Montgomery” to “Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson” in less than a week.
Oof.
Who needs front line starters when you can add Gibson and Lynn
lmfao
Adios and good luck from Birdland, Kyle.
We also have a bird as a mascot.
But you don’t have multiple professional sports teams with bird names/mascots like we do here in Birdland 😉
We’ve got the BattleHawks and the Cardinals. The damn Hawks left us for Atlanta.
St Louis Browns to St Louis Cardinals
that’s true!
lol
Haha that’s what mo does best get the bargain bin pitchers expect them to be great
Gibson isn’t really a “Bargain Bin” Type of pitcher, he has the fuel for more and can be great, its what we need at the moment and is veteran leadership for the younger guys
Kyle Gibson? The guy who has been pitching in MLB for 11 years and has a 4.54 career ERA? The guy who has an ERA over 4.70 each of the last three years, and an ERA over 5,00 two of those three years? The guy who has had an ERA over 5.00 six times and an ERA under 4.00 only three times? Are we talking about the same guy?
Sorry, friend. I’m a huge Kyle Gibson fan. Great teammate. Solid innings eater. You’re trying to hype him into something he isn’t. He’s a solid #4. That’s all he is.
4 of his last 8 seasons he’s had ERAs over 5!!!
This wasn’t how I expected him to rebuild this rotation. Gibson and Lynn? Yuck.
Cards loading up on #6 starters.
Cards GM said they wanted to add three starters, but he never said “good” starters
Truth!
This is as pitiful as my Mariners optimism to add impact hitters.. I feel for you cardinals fans
good innings eaters between him and Lynn. but a very average team. Looking like the angels more and more
we have the angels pitching but not the angels offense
Yeah, assuming Ohtani leaves, at least the Cardinals’ offense is quite a bit better than the Angels’. While the Angels still have Trout (until he gets hurt again), unless Rendon suddenly turns back the clock a few years, the rest of their offense is nothing special right now.
Meanwhile, the Cardinals have a playoff-caliber offense right now and more good position players than places to play them.
That popped into my head as well.
Knowing Mo, the 3rd and final SP that he’ll add will be Jack Flaherty
Typical Mo dumpster diving. This is turning into a joke.
Gross
These are not the kind of pitchers the team needs. This is garbage. Yes he’s been solid the last couple years but the team needs upside not old innings eaters.
Lol get wrecked Joel P
Another good signing by Mo as long as it’s no more than a two year deal. Hopefully it’s only one guaranteed. Next year is a much better starting pitching free agent class. Team is in a rebuild and will lose 95+ games this year. These are just innings guys to get through the year.
The team is not in a rebuild. The Cardinals historically don’t do that and the roster isn’t in a rebuild. If they were in a true rebuild they’d be trading away Goldy, Arenado, Edman, basically everyone but Wynn and Walker.
Yeah the team isn’t rebuilding at all. If it was why sign these old guys like Lynn and Gibson? There is a really good chance Liberatore and Thompson are both better than these bums right now.
I hate both these signings. This is awful.
Thompson, maybe, but not the Liberatore we saw pitch this past season.
I’m not sure that’s a good strategy. This is an aging core, with Arenado and Goldy both already past their prime, Contreras not being a kid, and they’ll have increasing contracts with Edman and Donovan set to make some bank in arbitration and Contreras’ salary increasing. Cards just aren’t going to spend on major long term contracts, so betting that suddenly they’re going to spend money on several free agent pitchers next year is a fool’s bet. This year’s class has Yamamoto, Snell, Nola (already signed, but he was in the class), Gray, Montgomery, Rodriguez, Imanaga, Giolito, and Stroman, all of whom could serve as 1-2 guys. Add to that Cease, Bieber, and Glasnow who could be gotten in trades, and there were a ton of options to win now. Next year has about eight guys who would slot as 1-2 at this point in their career, and the bidding will be high. Waiting was not really an option.
saying nolan is past his prime is funny, goldy i get but both still can produce like prior years…
You realize “past his prime” and “not good” are two very different things, don’t you? He’ll be 33 in April and just had the worst full year of his career. That would be the definition of “past his prime”. They’re very good players, but their prime years are definitely done. Prime is peak. Peak is something they are no longer at.
Glasnow a free agent next year as is Bieber. Also available next year is Cole, Fried, Burnes, Wheeler, Ray, Freddy Peralta, Buehler, potentially Woodruff and probably another Japanese pitcher. Next year is a much better pool and the depth allows the Cardinals a shot to get one or two. Nola was never leaving Philly, Snell and Gray are bad fits, and they have no shot at Yamamoto. This team is in a rebuild, they won’t say it though because holiday ticket plans are on sale. Goldschmidt and Arenado will most likely be traded as will a few other pieces. We knew this team was going to be bad going into last year and 2024 was going to be worse. But at least they are making the right moves to not screw up the rebuild process. Their minors are empty except Chase Davis. It needs rebuilt via trades and with the high draft picks they will get for ‘23, ‘24, and ‘25. Hopefully 25 will be in the teens rather than top 5 though.
Peralta is not available next year btw
Unknown if “better pool”…………some teams DO resign their SPs before they get that chance to be a Free Agent after next season.
I’m not a Cardinals fan, but I agree with this sentiment and the sentiment that Joel P. and others have expressed on the quality of the Lynn/Gibson signings.. The Cardinals rotation is not looking good for next year, but maybe that’s ok. As a Rays fan, I can tell you that a solid rotation is at least 7 deep, and most teams don’t have that. If either Lynn or Gibson have good seasons in 2024, the Cardinals will be able to flip them for a couple goodish prospects (not a top guy of course). It’s a wise strategy for replenishing the Farm if they don’t lose their nerve of treating next year like a reset year, if that’s what they’re doing.
@paper straws
It doesn’t matter how many FA starting pitchers there are. There is always a shortage. Everyone that becomes a FA creates a hole in some teams rotation, causing a need.
The club has an 8 million dollar option. With Burnes and Woodruff gone, I’m not sure they pick that up.
Glad people are seeing that this is just what the Cards are going to do instead of the bizarre optimism yesterday. Welcome to our ownership and front office’s way of pretending they’re trying to be competitive. One SP slot left. Even if they fill it with an ace, they aren’t competitive with the rest of the staff they’ll have. Sad.
Yikes. Was really thinking they were gonna go after at least 1 top tier guy.
Who’s the 3rd starter gonna be? Severino? Maeda?
My guess is maeda. Another if to join their whole rotation of if’s. Honestly they could put Thompson as the number 5, and liberatore in the bullpen. Libby did well there. Unless they trade libby or Thompson, there’s only room for one more starter and I’m betting its not cease or beiber.
Wacha, lol
No – both too young and not White.
Probably be Syndergaard.
Cardinals cleaning house on FA SP. I bet Gibson wins 25 next year.
Chad innings eater
Hoping it still leaves $35-40M left to spend. At that point as long as Mikolas doesn’t get hurt in the preseason, Matz and Liberatore actually show up, Lynn and Gibson can eat innings, and we sign an actual ace the rotation isn’t all that bad.
That’s a whole lot of “if’s”.
Baseball is a lot of “if’s” as are all the other sports.
Too many if’s are almost never a recipe for success in any sport.
I just looked at his stats. Gibson actually has double digit wins in 8 of past 9 full seasons. You would have won a drink off me with that bar bet.
You want to win your money back? He had an ERA above 4.70 each of the last three years and above 5.00 two of the last three. That’s easy money!
Why on earth would anyone be looking at pitcher win totals?
Because for starting pitchers, wins matter. It means he pitched more than 5 innings on his 100 pitch limit for every win. It means he out pitched his opponent. It means he made his starts and wasn’t injured for lengthy periods. Look at the 15 win starters over the last five years. The ones that reach that total are the ones you want in your rotation.
As a Phillies fan I’m frustrated for Cardinal fans. It’s still early in the off-season, keep the faith Cards fans.
thank you. they can still make a big move. im hoping the front office is viewing these arms as insurance.
Would love to play poker against Mo
More great news for Cubs fans!
drascoo- Not really scaring anyone so far. Like I said, When they said they needed 3 starters I assumed they meant good ones. They let Kninzer go and now Contreras is catching these guys? That’s not going to be pretty.
I kind of figured that with Arenado and Goldie, they would have nabbed some decent pitching, Stroman, ed-rod, Giolito, maybe not top tier guys but guys that slot great into a three spot.
The Cardinals got two five hole pitchers to throw to Contreras who isn’t exactly known for getting the most of a pitcher.
For the Cardinals market size and typical spending, Lynn, Gibson and tendering O’Neil didn’t make one lick of sense to me.
Cardinals are cornering the market on back end number 5/6 type starters…
These are the type of starters you sign in late January or February when you realize you did not get any good starting pitchers…
Couldn’t agree more. These are the guys that get signed for half price in February. But why pay half price later when you can pay double today!
They already know they’re not getting any good ones so they’re getting these guys before they’re gone.
The Cards likely had no competition. These players were not expecting to have meaningful conversations with teams until much closer to Spring Training.
Or trying to fetch lightning in a bottle like Mo actually did for a while w/ Lester and J.A. Happ trades. Problem being “lightning in a bottle” doesn’t last entire seasons.
Next they’ll trade for Jordan Lyles and say they’re off-season is complete.
*their
I quit drinking years ago, but if Kyle Gibson wins 25 games next year, I will have a drink with Jiggs and hiflew over the cookoos nest!
Lol how about if he somehow wins 15 again? Gotta be something somewhat possible.
Merge to form Junk Rotation.
Perhaps I’m reading too much into this but hopefully, this is a sign that John Angelos is going to crack open the checkbook and let Elias make a big starting pitcher signing.
I think Gibson wasn’t really high on the priority list. I don’t think this really says anything unfortunately.
We could cobble together a rotation without Gibson next year.
Kremer, Bradish, Wells, G-Rod, and Means is 5 guys.
Irvin and Povich are the depth arms.
I hope we do get an impact arm though.
Cards’ fan here, but I’ll jump in on the O’s. I had their one big move this offseason being signing Eduardo Rodriguez. Seems like a good fit.
Wow. So it’s basically the same team as last year, which flopped hard, only they don’t have Montgomery. I think Lynn and Gibson can approximate Flaherty and Wainwright.
Cardinals aren’t wasting any time. They’ll face a lot of the same decisions next year, though.
Like I said yesterday, as a Cardinals fan, there is nothing to say or do here. Just have to wait this out.
1.) Don’t buy tickets for next season.
2.) Cancel my cable subscription.
3) Follow Skip Schumacher and the “should be” Cardinals in Miami.
Fun Fact: Gibby 2.0 led the AL in allowing 198 hits last year, the same number Gibby 1.0 allowed in 1968….while throwing an additional 112 innings!
In other words, that’s over 12 nine inning no-hitters on top of Kyle’s 2023.
Fun Fact: Despite Gibson 2.0 leading the league in hits allowed in 2023, he had a lower WHIP than the entire Cardinals pitching staff.
In other words, mediocrity is an upgrade.
Unless the Red Bird management feels strongly they have a real shot at Yamamota or perhaps Snell this is disappointing bigtime. If they don’t make a splash signing I recommend Arenado and Goldy ask for a trade!
Yamamota and Snell are already reconsidering whether to answer the phone when it rings.
Good Lord…. first a 37 year old Lynn, now a 36 year old Gibson. I guess we’ll son a “youngster” like Wacha next and call it a day.
I wouldn’t be shocked if Wacha was next. I really wouldn’t.
This is pathetic.
not sure why people are surprised. this is the Cardinal’s M.O.
Everything’s coming up MOhouse!
I’ll thumbs up any Milhouse reference.
“Can I borrow a starter?”
Hahha and that’s your picture on the front!
Not what I thought of when they said they wanted to add acouple SP..
I thought they would aim alittle higher
I just thought they would aim.
On the bright side that’s a couple warm (if a bit old) bodies for not a ton of money. If they can make a trade now for a higher end arm like Glasnow or Cease, it could be considered a success. But they won’t get either for O’Neill or Carlson.
Glasnow is not that valuable. You gotta pay Glasnow and I dont think the Cardinals will want to do that anyways.
I would take Bieber but this is not good no matter what at this point.
ALL EXPERTS rate Glasnow >>>>>>> Bieber now. Glasnow’s “stuff’ is just flat-out way better when consdering the two and where they’re at in their careers. Glasnow’s problem is he gets hurt way too often. Matz 2.0.
Oh you…. Glasnow is winning the Cy Young in 2024 (not really kidding, as I think he’ll be in the race).
LOL Bieber. Is he still that much better than Gibson and Lynn?
Don’t Cy Young winners have to pitch a full healthy season?
And why can’t Glasnow pitch a full season next year? All his injuries prior to 2023 were arm related that required TJS to fix. He put it off for several years, but he finally got it done in 2021 and pitched fine in 2023.
He’s never pitched a full season in his life. Sure it’s possible but teams won’t assume it’s going to happen.
We will see. I’d rather take the risk on 1 year of Glasnow at $25MM than lock myself in to 4/$100MM of Sonny Gray.
Not a ton of $?!?!?!? websites that specialize in market-rate had BOTH of them for SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than what the Cardinals signed them for. If you took the market rates, they SHOULD HAVE been able to sign BOTH for a combined $18.5 – $19 M……………..they signed them for a combined $23 M!!!!! That’s $4.5 – $5 Mil. WASTED!!!!!
Another solid one year deal on a somewhat reliable veteran that is cheap by today’s standards.
Cards are very good at this. The Cardinals and the Braves are the best at spreading their budget around and paying guys well, but rarely if ever overpaying.
LMFAO!!!! They’re NOT Overpaying these two?!?!?!!? ALL SITES that give Market-rates have them overpaying BOTH of them by a good $2 – $2.5 Mil. EACH!!!!!! Add that overage together and that’s one VERY GOOD ‘pen arm that could’ve been had, had they just signed them to the projected market-rate!!!!!
Cards fans whining about Gibson yet I’m pretty sure he was better than Jack last year. I know he was definitely better than him when both were on the O’s, so I’d consider that an improvement over what you had last season.
He’s not what the team needs. The team needs high upside risky pitchers to have a shot to be a legit contender not old innings eaters. Gibson would be a solid pickup for some teams but not the Cardinals.
He’d’ve been a better pick-up than L. Lynn to be the No. 5 SP.
Picking BOTH OF THEM up was just MORONIC!!!
Gibson is a solid pick up for the Cards as a back end rotation piece. Clearly he can stabilize the back end of the rotation, along with Lynn. In that regard he’s a solid pickup. He wasn’t signed to slot into the front of the rotation. At least I’d hope that isn’t the plan for them. I am sure they are gunning for multiple other pitchers, will just need to see how it all shakes out.
Minor improvements don’t help them make up like 25 games in the standings. They might be closer to 500 this year than 20 below.
Exactly we needed high risk high reward types not Lynn and Gibson. This sucks.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they trade for patrick Corbin or Jake odirizzi lol. Corner the market on pitchers who “eat” innings but lead the league in hits given up
Idea is to not replicate last season….
Actually incorrect from the Cardinals perspective. Jack was better in his time with the Cardinals than Gibson was last season. And if we’re looking to improve, what matters is whether we’re improving over the team we had last year, not the team someone else had.
If you compare the 2023 season Kyle Gibson had to the 2023 season Jack had, Kyle would be an upgrade over Jack – that’s the gist of what I was saying. I didn’t make the comment to compare who did what with a specific team, the point was over the entire season, Kyle was the better pitcher and thus should be an upgrade over Jack for the Cards.
Just what we needed another old pitcher, keep saving the money MO.
If they use all the money they’re saving to make a run for Ohtani to have his bat this year and bat and arm next year, I’ll be ok with this. They won’t, and Ohtani would turn them down if they did, but I’d be ok with that magical hypothetical scenario.
ONLY acquisition that I’d be ok with that would explain why they’re doing what they’re doing is Yamamoto.
But if that’s what they were preparing for, then they should’ve paid Lynn & Gibson at their market rates…..not a Good $2M more than what they should’ve gotten each!!!
On the bright side neither of these signing have negatively effect my Top 50 scorecard which is still at 0 for 2.
Wow, spend $23 million on these guys, or spend $25 million on a top tier guy and fill in the 5 spot with someone like Thompson. That shouldn’t have been a hard choice…but apparently it was.
Exactly….98% of G.M.s OR would-be G.M.s would go the route you describe………….then there’s Mo.
Good thing for Gibson is he will be traded to a contender by August 1st.
Somebody on a Board predicted this would happen and he was laughed at.
Look what just happened. and I ain’t laughing.
Why even bother to announce a signing of this caliber.?
if they sign Sonny Gray and trade for Cease, that’s still a respectable rotation.
At best there were going to be 3 new additions to the rotation. So at best we are talking 1 more pitcher. Can’t trade Mikolas he’s making too much. Matz is the only lefty and again makes a lot of money.
This sucks.
what if Matz gets hurt again? he’s not exactly been reliable for more than 15-20 starts. if there’s room on the 40 man, I am okay with this. definitely don’t need Naile, Kennedy or Siani on the 40 man come spring
What if? Try “When”. He has never thrown for more than 160 innings in a season. When he does throw it’s 5 Innings, max. He’s Blake Snell that isn’t any good.
I like the cut of your jib.
I still think the impending doom of losing streaming rights is behind these lesser signings.
This makes no sense.
From a payroll perspective, they are now $8M below last year’s budget.
From a talent perspective, they replaced Monty & Flaherty with Lynn & Gibson. That has to be a downgrade to a team that only finished with 71 wins.
I have no idea where they are going with this.
They replaced Waino and Flaherty with 2 pitchers that outperformed them last year. Monty replacement should still be coming.
Hey, I’m ripping this all apart like everyone else, BUT I would say that they replaced Waino & Flaherty…………NOT Monty & Flaherty.
Yikes! $22M for Lynn and Gibson??
mo has got to be stoned out of his mind
I just don’t see one of the top SP free agents landing in StL. Their best bet is to make a trade with one of their young position players with with either Sea or WSox
The Cardinal Way is to hire pitching nobody else wants. Need new ownership and management.
The batters from the other 4 NL central teams have to be excited by the 2 duds the cesspool east missouri franchise has signed. A team with 4-5 #5 starters is going to be so bad and that is so good for the rest of the league! The decline continues
The only way this works is if STL GM Mozielak has the framework in place to trade for a front end starter that is under salary control. Some kind of multi player package of a Carlson, Herrea, Donovan, Scott, Liberatore, O’Neill, Gracefo or dare say Gorman depending how how that starter might be.
I love delusional fans, “here take any number of these crappy players for an Ace with team control”.
An Ace with team control, you’re giving up Walker, Gorman and probably Winn or Hence to get the conversation started.
No team dealing an Ace wants Liberatore, O’Neil or Carlson. Donovan, Herrera aren’t headling any package but would be acceptable additions.
Should be more upset over Lynn than Gibby. Both signings are fine, but I expect Snell to be added too. If that does not happen, or a trade involving a top starter, then I will echo the pessimistic sentiment. Until then, I will remain optimistic.
How many No. 4-5 starters can a team collect? This is not the answer -it’s not cheap either… I’m thinking of cancelling my annual St Loo trip & just catch them somewhere on the road. Terrible.
I would be really ticked if this was the best my favorite team could do when they needed two TOR starters.
Same old story
Cards should just do like Miami and start the aaa starters even though they’re not ready. Take their lumps and learn from them while the team finishes last and gets better draft picks. Also, put Chaim Bloom in charge.
Cardinals have won with lesser rotations it’s not the big “sexy” deals fans hope for but ask yourself if you really want to be hancuffed to long-term big money deals?
I doubt that.
The ’06 team won with the like of Jason Marquis, Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver and Sidney Ponson. The ’11 team won with Kyle Lohse, Jake Westbrook, Edwin Jackson and Kyle McClellan
This group isn’t any worse than those groups
Same old story wow
I guess me and the wife won’t be going to our usual 12 games this year. Lied to again !!!!
I guess Cardinals really are playing to finish at .500. What a cheapskate organization.
So he’s going from a playoff team to a team that might finish 3rd or 4th.
I guess the Cardinals forgot they hit four consecutive first inning home runs against Kyle Gibson in 2022 when he was with the Phillies. That’s Bad man
And Lynn gave up four home runs in one inning in the playoffs. Cards must love guys like that.
That’s got something to do with it, but let’s be real about this when has Mo gone out and actually signed top tier pitching?
please keep these comments up, they make me laugh every time
Me too. Especially since the person he identifies is most certainly not me. But it does make me giggle to think that some random stranger may be getting threats from an unhinged dude online who just sucks at talking trash. My bad, an “expert”.
my comment was supposed to be positive. buddy i don’t mean to be rude or anything but it was a joke. maybe try to lighten your mood a bit since his whole comment was a joke? even if no one laughed at it i thought it was funny
Oh I’m not upset in the slightest. I will say I am genuinely curious as to who would find his rant funny and how, but no worries here.
Seeing a Lynn Signing………..not bad for a No. 5 SP.
Seeing a K. Gibson Signing…..even better for a No. 5 SP.
Seeing both on back-to-back Days when seemingly ALL 30 TEAMS KNEW how badly St. L needed Starting Pitching and they were in the Bottom 3 – 4 in the ENTIRE LEAGUE w/ the stats. of their rotation a year ago and when they’d publicized that they would acquire 3 New SPs, NEITHER is arguably better than a No. 4 SP?!?!!?!?!
To think, they COULD HAVE combined what they’re giving those two ($23M for 1-year) and signed an ACTUALLY GOOD No. 2 SP type. Heck, an Eduardo Rodriguez, for example, is being projected to sign a 5-year, $110 M deal (that’s only $22M / yr.). They’d still have spent the same $ they have now and their 4 & 5 would’ve been Mikolas & Z. Thompson in lieu of K. Gibson & L. Lynn. In this exercise, I’m slotting Matz in as the No. 3. Only w/ what they’ve ACTUALLY DONE, EITHER he OR Mikolas would ACTUALLY HAVE TO Slot in as the No. 2 now!!!!
This Signing is actually DAMAGING to the team and what SUPPOSEDLY this offseason was supposed to be about w/ improving the Pitching Staff.
Some are saying that possibly, Matz with the recurring injuries might be switched back to the ‘pen and there may actually be as many as FOUR NEW SPs from last year to this…….1 more Signing and one more Trade. Or that Matz might even be traded. Dude had something like a 1.93 ERA his last 13 starts before going on the Inj. List to end his season last season.
But if you’re a non-Cardinals’ fan, this Signing is WAY WORSE than what we got w/ the Lynn News!!!! 🙁
Mozeliak is wasting his payroll with bad arms the way Dipoto does with bad bats
I still think with this group that Thompson gets a shot. Trying to stay hopeful because there is a long ways til spring
I am so sorry Cardinals fans. Is a trade for Patrick Corbin or a signing of Lucas Giolito next?
Have to lock of the bottom of this list after all.
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&st…
No way do they blow past their high payroll mark to add an ace to this roster as constructed. They’ll try to address it by trade if they can.
And that’s fine as long as they add one. I could see signing one and still making trades to relieve the payroll. Sign Yoshinobu and trade for prospects? Along those lines
Their rotation isn’t going to scare anyone. They are paying full $ for meh guys. If their bats perform it could be enough to get in playoffs and likely out fast. More can go wrong with these older arms than likely hood of upside.
Well it looks like the Cards will finish back ahead of the Pirates again. Can’t see Nutting paying this much for a couple of back end starters that they need desperately.
Not bad signing, eats innings and keeps in the game.
lmfao
Kyle Gibson is your quintessential No. 5 starter. Eats innings, mediocre run prevention, very little downside on that deal.
Cards now have a #3 (Mikolas) and 3 #5s (Lynn, Gibson, and Matz). I guess they’re hoping 2 of their rookies become aces this year.
COME ON!!!!! Matz is no worse than a 3 and was WAY BETTER than Mikolas last season!!!! 2.40 ERA, 0.97 WHIP from May 25th – Aug. 12th?!?!?!?!
Dude has major talent, it’s just……can he stay healthy!!!!
Mikolas had a period of looking like a “2” whereas he’s been trending down to looking more like a “4”.. Ironically, had he stayed healthy, Matz looked like he was trending the exact opposite way.
This had better be followed with trading Goldschmidt and Arenado. They absolutely are not competing this year. Go full rebuild if you aren’t going to compete.
As a Reds fan I am surprised at the Lynn and Gibson signings. I kept hearing Nola or Gray but Card’s GM went cheap. He better hope they work out or the pitchforks will come if they aren’t already.
I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I do see a value in guys Gibson who can eat up innings. Sure he’s nothing spectacular, but getting through 180 innings has value today. Hopefully for Cardinals fans they have room for a top end starter.
I don’t particularly care for the signings but as long as they follow through on what they are saying it’s fine. Mo acknowledged yesterday there is still work to be done.
Gibby’s a real pro. Cards are better off with him. After his playing career is over he really should think about a career in Western motion pictures. Tall lanky fella always reminded me of a gunslinger.
Cards fans have every right to call for the GM’s job. Not rebuilding, not looking to contend, pure smoke and mirror signings pretending to do something.
I guess I’ll hold my tongue until we see what the final rotation will be. Clearly, as of now, this team needs a No. 1 and No. 2. Neither exist on this team as it is right now. I can see Gibson as a No. 3, Mikolas as a No. 4 and Lynn as a No. 5. If I could look into the future and see that Mo and company are planning on bringing in a NO. 1 and No. 2, then Gibson/Mikolas/Lynn on the back-end is perfectly fine. If, however, they plan on bringing in just one “ace,” then that means Gibson is No. 2, Mikolas No. 3, Lynn No. 4 and Matz or Thompson as No. 5. That’s not much of an improvement over last year.
What worries me is iwth $21 million wasted on Lynn and Gibson, there isn’t enough cash left over to bring in a Sonny Gray or someone better. So – that means the “ace” will come from a trade. And unless they are willing to deal one or both of Gorman and Nootbaar, Cards ain’t getting that “ace”.
Strange…
Thought the Cards should have gone after Lugo and Maeda instead of Lynn and Gibson.
22 million spent on two #5 pitchers. That could have went towards one top of the rotation arm. Cool. Not getting a dime of my money this year. Last game I went to had 6k at the gate. Get used to that. Sad that we wasted Arenado’s prime.
$12 million for a 36 year old pitcher who had an ERA of almost 5? I really should have practiced harder when I was a kid
These signings make sense IF the next signing is Blake Snell. Gibson and Lynn are aging, yes, but both are historically healthy, and both will pitch 150+ innings. Snell is injury prone, but is almost highest of high ceilings. To take a chance on Snell you have to also have the cheaper bulk innings guys to balance.
Bernie Miklasz wrote 2 columns today discussing the moves the Cardinals made today. Google “Bern Baby Bern” and see what this long time Cardinal writer has to say. I trust this pundit not to feed us fans a lot of BS.
Bern Baby Bern, check it out you won’t feel as bad.
Gibson is a Mizzou alumni. That counts for something.
I mean I went there for a semester and look how I turned out. Never mind.
Mikolas, Lynn and Gibson! Not exactly Nola, Snell and Yamamoto. Looks like the Cardinals are shopping in the bargain basement. Sorry, I’m not impressed.
Mo is famous for his low hanging fruit free agents over the last decade.
Need pitchers with “swing and miss stuff” is all you heard last year. I heard Rich Hill and Zach Grienke just landed their planes at the airport.
I may be wrong, but I think replacing Jack and Jordan with Kyle and Lance is a net negative in a department we were told would be a focus of management. The offseason is early and maybe there is a plan for a trade, but I don’t see them spending a draft pick in the early rounds on one of the better FA pitchers available or ponying up the big bucks for a fancy new Japanese import. If they spend more money this offseason I expect it will be on early extensions or a relief pitcher and they will need to get any rotation improvement via trade. I am not sure why I am still somehow disappointed when this is essentially what I was expecting, but here I sit…
Spending $12m on a 36 year-old fifth starter who will put up below league average performance is an indictment of this organization’s player development system. Sheeesh…..
These 2 signings were not great, but definitely an improvement in that they basically replaced Wainwright & Flaherty, who were not only bad but couldn’t be counted on due to injuries. And don’t forget the salaries -Wainwright made $17M, and these 2 guys are being paid $22M. Sounds like a good deal for the Cards to me. I do believe there will be a big-name pitcher still to come. Hopefully, whoever they sign won’t be for more than 4 years, which is probably 2 years more than it should be for any pitcher.
I’d love to workout a deal for manoah from Toronto. Top of the rotation pitcher. Had a bad year. Hits everything we could want.
Disagree. Elite professional players don’t fall apart like Manoah did outside injury. I’d stay away from the guy.
I know this is crazy but as an Orioles fan I actually felt good when Gibson took the bump. I also strongly felt he should have got the start over Kremer in Game 3 against Texas. Not that it mattered. Anyway congrats to Gibby. Great guy.
I dont see this as an absolutely terrible move. I mean, yea mo is dumpster diving. But he is probably also playing hardball on some deals with teams. So he’s making other’s seem like they are losing a bidder. cat and mouse. But this move reminds me of a Jeff suppan type of guy. #4 or #5. He pitched in Phil in a hitters park. I think we could see high high 3s like 3.98 or a 4.3 Era or so. he does give up Homer’s, but he keeps batters off the path via walks. And the cardinals like ground ball pitchers. This is another one. The cards try to pride themselves on defense. So, Mozeliaks MO has been ground ball pitchers. I see this as a 12-13 wins year. eats innings. I honestly feel the cardinals are poking the whole starting market for trades, including cease and so forth from the whitesox. the blow Jay’s are also open to monah, and if he can turn things around, could be that Jack Flaherty we expected based on how well he started out. I think there’s a ton of potential in him and he could really headline the starting staff. If im MO, I’m open to anyone in the mid infield like edman, Gorman, r Donavan. We have replacements for them already. We don’t have a #1 guy yet. Libertore was supposed to be this but has been f-in around and finding out. I woudnt trade all 3 in a deal, but I’d part with one and maybe another asset. But this dude could really be good.
if I were the cardinals I’d stay away from TB on the Glasnow deal. TB only trades guys they know something is wrong with. They fleece every team in MLB. plus Glasnow has never thrown a full season injury free. Just too costly and we could bring back waino to pitch 10 games next year for what we’d get out of glasnow. in my mind, if a pitcher is like glasnow or degrom you realize they have so much potential do exceptional when they pitch, but it’s never consistent. Monaoh would be a good pitcher I’d be focused on. We have a history of trading with the blow Jay’s anyways.
although I like sonny gray, I don’t like the compensation attached to him. I think we can find some young, and talented starters via trade. Like a Wayne Gretzky for the blues type of move, but a younger pitcher. I think the A’s wouldn’t mind getting fleeced again. I’m sure the nationals or even going after woodruff who was just designated. good reclamation project for 25.
LOVE where this off season is going for the Cards. Reclamation projects at best, with significant dumpster fire risk.
“Meanwhile” has to come at the start of the sentence; it can’t come in the middle. I don’t understand how EVERY writer for MLBTR doesn’t know this.
Cardinals starting pitchers lost 64 games in 2023 with a 5.08ERA, 1.49WHIP, allowed 250 barreled balls, struck out 6.92 per nine innings and had the second worst overall “stuff” in the National League according to fangraphs
Gibson was 15-9 with a 4.13FIP, 33 starts, 192 innings, 157 strike outs, a good 49.7% ground ball rate, better than average walk rate and solid .200WOBA allowed against 816 breaking pitches thrown. Gibson finished with a 2.45ERA over his last five starts and had a 0.667WHIP in three post season innings.
However, Gibson’s 4.73ERA ranked just 79th among qualified big league pitchers. He allowed a 44% hard hit rate, 589 batted balls (4th most in baseball) and 1.318WHIP while finishing with just 0.9bWAR.
The Cardinals may have been one of the best fielding teams in terms of percentage, were one of the worst teams in converting batted balls into outs. So the Gibson signing really doesn’t impress me. Especially when you pair him with Mikolas who led the National League in hits allowed.