Rob Manfred spoke to reporters (including Evan Drellich of The Athletic) ahead of the World Series opener this evening. The conversation covered an array of topics regarding the game, including the ongoing investigation into former Mets GM Billy Eppler and potential future rule changes.
Manfred told reporters that the investigation into Eppler, which looks into allegations of improper injured list use, should be completed before the end of the calendar year. While Manfred makes clear the league is not currently aware of a more widespread issue beyond the Mets, he does note that he directed the league’s department of investigations to “figure out whether we have a bigger problem” regarding misuse of the injured list. While Manfred notes that the issue with the Mets isn’t “quite the same” as other issues the league has investigated that, in his words, “arguably affect the integrity of the game,” he still considers the alleged offense by the Mets to be one of significance, adding that the investigation is a high priority for the league.
Of course, so-called “phantom IL” stints have been commonplace in the league for decades, and have occurred on every team at one point or another, with some players even openly admitting that they aren’t actually injured while on the shelf. More nebulous diagnoses such as soreness or fatigue can be used by a club to offer a struggling player a physical and mental reset while clearing their roster spot for a period of time. While the practice is technically illegal, it’s not currently clear what specific injured list transactions are at issue that spurred the league to investigate Eppler and the Mets specifically for the relatively widespread practice.
Manfred also spoke about potential rule changes the league could see in the future. The 2023 season saw one of the more aggressive changes to the league’s rule set in recent years, as the league implemented a pitch clock, larger bases, and shift restrictions ahead of the campaign. Those changes have generally been well-received after their first season in use, and it appears the league could look to continue making rule adjustments. Specifically, Manfred acknowledged recent discourse around the league’s playoff format— which has seen six of the eight teams that secured a first-round bye over the last three seasons fail to win a series— has prompted the commissioner’s office to “discuss” possible changes, though he notes that he’s a fan of the playoffs as currently designed.
“My own view on this is that our teams play really hard all year long to get into the playoffs,” Manfred said, “But one of the greatest things about the playoffs in baseball is, anybody can win. …I don’t think what happened this year is all that out of line with history.”
Another change Manfred discussed was potentially lowering the maximum allowable number of pitchers on the active roster to 12. He noted that the 13 pitcher limit currently in place hasn’t “had the desired effect” of encouraging teams to push their starting pitchers to stay in the game longer. While the eight teams that saw their starting pitchers throw less than 800 innings this season is a noticeable drop from 12 in 2021, the last season before the current limit was introduced, it’s actually one more than in 2022 and the same number as 2019. Prior to 2019, only the 2018 Rays and the 2012 Rockies had gotten less than 800 innings out of their starting pitchers in a season this century.
Such a change, however, would not be on the table for the 2024 season. Manfred didn’t discuss potential rules changes for the 2024 season, though he did note that any changes would be on a smaller scale after the significant rules adjustments the sport experienced in 2023.
All 30 teams do this. But the only target is the Mets? Manfred clearly doesn’t like Cohen.
Warden Norton says, “It’s. All. One. Damn. Big. Conspiracy and everyone is in on it.”
This is the same guy that took the All Star Game away from a city over politics (wouldn’t you think that decision hurt and disenfranchised a lot of the same people who he felt were hurt and disenfranchised by that voting law?). I normally don’t pile on sports league commissioners but he really is a joke and a disgrace. I can’t wait until he’s removed to save the integrity of the game for the rest of us. He’s just a vindictive little man who empowers himself.
Your argument on the all star game is the same argument that Richy-riches used to invest in South Africa during apartheid.
Seriously? You think that is equivalent? Bad take.
No, taking the All-Star game out of Atlanta and acting like the commissioner of baseball is supposed to have something to do with state laws administering absentee ballots was far far worse. I was just indicating that it wouldn’t surprise me if it had something to do with him not liking Cohen, because he’s clearly not afraid to use his position to seek punishment on things and people he doesn’t like. Just a commentary on the overall (distasteful ness) of the man. I’m sure the Mets really did abuse the system in some way.
After it took the ASG from Atlanta, it was even more satisfying to see them win the WS. Serving it a big s@#t burger ala Lou Brown.
Not over politics, over basic civil rights. Stop repeating talking points — think instead.
If you feel this way, then you’re saying that it will be OK for a conservative-leaning commissioner to keep the All-Star game out of New York over the migrant crisis. There should be separation of state and sports just like separation of church and state. One has nothing to do with the other. People come to sports to get away from how toxic the rest of society is. And my point is, taking the All-Star game out of a big city is not really helping the cause and he’s actually hurting the people that live there. It’s ineffective and stupid and just creates more division and toxicity.
This is the problem with the world today, people have abandoned a basic state of decency and normalcy. They’ll praise someone for overstepping their boundaries like this when it works for them but not when it doesn’t. I’m on the fence politically, but partisanship is ruining the country.
Why would his being white matter?
YoungTank15 is merely paraphrasing what his hero DJT would say
Lame response.
You’re making a joke here, right terrymesmer?
Because white liberals telling minorities how they should think and act is getting old.
If the owners didn’t like the results he’d have already been fired. He wasn’t. His contract was extended. REMEMBER THAT THE OWNERS CONTROL LTHE GAME. ALWAYS HAVE.
Lower the max pitchers to 12 and make it a 4 batter rule for RP. While there would be more pitching changes you gotta force teams into training RP to pitch longer
Nolan Ryan tried “training” SP to go longer in Texas 20 years ago. Texas added about 1/3 of an inning for starters. It’s not the same game anymore. Relievers get switched for matchups anyway. That’s the result of basic analytics.
Let teams decide on how many pitchers they want to use and how they want to use them. Smaller market teams (Arizona, Tampa) using bullpen games is fine. Don’t change the rule just to help the big market teams.
How about no? If the rules aren’t changed we will eventually get to a spot where it will be 9 guys pitching one inning each. That affects the entertainment of the game
It’s more like the anonymous tipper provided supporting documents/evidence.
More likely this is similar to the Astros situation in 2017/18. Many teams were doing it on various levels, but only one took it to extraordinary levels, and accelerated it after Manfred’s memo. The Astros. Here, one scenario is the Mets seemed to have overstepped what was acceptable. The Mets probably then asked Eppler to step so they can eventually blame him, but it appears to be a team-wide issue.
Teams have stolen signs from the beginning of time, whether it is trash cans, poking heads out of scoreboards in Chicago or Boston, “grounds crew” in bullpens, or whatever.
Now whether this is overly egregious in this case for some reaso , I guess this investigation will show. Do I expect any real punishment as a result? Not really since the Astros really weren’t affected outside loss of jobs. Someone is always a fall guy.
Kinda like 2017 cheating being widespread, but only targeting one team.
Get rid of the ghost runner rule. It is stupid and has no real purpose. The pitch clock changes are much more beneficial to moving the games faster.
Of all the stupid rule changes, the ghost runner is the most ridiculous.
Agree.
100%. Extra innings baseball is so tacky now.
I hate it too but doubt the players are interested in having marathon extra inning games they don’t get paid extra for. My proposed change would be to start the 10th with no ghost runner. The 11th with a guy on first. Then guy on 2nd & 1st by the 12th. The stupidity of the current rule incentivizes intentional walks.
I agree, the Manfred Man in extras needs to go away. It served a purpose during the pandemic season to keep players safe by ending games as soon as possible to limit interaction, but the pandemic is over. I despise the pitch clock, but as long as Manfred is in charge it isn’t going anywhere. That said, the times, especially for the playoffs need to be increased. There were multiple time clock violations that gave a ball count to the batter—just imagine if that had happened in a clinching game with a 3-ball count in the bottom of the 9th, bases loaded. That is the nightmare scenario—a series ending on a pitch clock violation. That should never happen.
There were multiple violations that gave a ball count to the batter. Wow. There were 164,000+ at bats in 2023. Talk about solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
The pitch clock is the second most ridiculous rule. Someone mentioned in this thread, or maybe another, the unprecedented number of pitcher injuries in 2023. But don’t worry, it’s not caused by the only change that pitchers had to adjust to in 2023. I’ve noticed that they are also not referring to repairing the abundance of UCL tears as Tommy John surgery this season as much. If there is an alternative surgery to TJS (with an 18 month recovery) why haven’t we heard about it until 2023? Prior to this year, guys got TJS or injections, nothing else. It’s crap for the sole purpose of shortening the game in an effort to attract short attention span viewers who will never be diehard fans. And the pitch clock has hurt pitchers in the process and no one is allowed to speak out. According to MLB, everyone loves the new rules. It’s crap.
That’s my opinion.
The radar gun and pitch counts have caused more pitcher injuries than the pitch clock ever did.
Reds – What’s your source for that data?
Reds – Seeing no response I have to assume you made that up because there is no data that says the radar gun and pitch counts have caused more injuries, or any injuries for that matter.
@prov356 I completely agree. I’m a season ticket holder and the majors of other STH people in my section agree. Pitch clocks dominate the LED boards, and we swear it’s to engage the ADHD crowd only. It’s annoying and no one who truly loves the sport likes it; that I’ve encountered anyways.
Love having the batter only able to step out once though. You don’t need to adjust batting gloves, helmet, belt, nose, sleeve, etc after every pitch thrown.
No kidding it’s your opinion, Dr. Prov356. Thanks for clarifying, though. Lmaoooo
There’s always a rude jackball in every thread. Today it’s you blood.
The fact you even asked the question tells me you haven’t been paying attention, or at least not long enough. The number of Tommy John surgeries, not to mention other types, aren’t growing exponentially over time for no reason.
I am not saying anything long time pitching gurus/coaches haven’t said already for several years now, but I’m sure Robby the robot don’t like that being publicized.
No need for pitch clocks if umpires enforced hitters into the box. If the pitcher is ready, hitter should be too. Make the hitter dig in and hit.
However this would help pitchers. MLB rules prohibits any favouring of pitchers unless a rule favours everyone’s safety, like no more breaking up a double play.
I said the same thing for years. Apparently they had to legislate it.
reds – again, you provided no source for the data you are trying to allege. There has been an inordinate number of pitching injuries in 2023. It has not been a gradual and equal increase over years.
Prov we can say a pitcher under the age of 35 winning 300 games in the big leagues would be nothing short of a miracle. The evolution of the baseball, bats, hitters being overly protected physically and rules-wise has brought an increase to significant time lost by pitchers on the mound.
This should be the #1, #2 and #3 concern for Major League Baseball.
By the time the season came around, most people were used to the pitch clock so there was a low probability of a violation deciding something.
Besides people knew the rules by the time the season was well under way. They were reviewed in sessions with every team in the spring.
What amuses me are the prople who just noticed in 2023 that pitcher injuries have been increasing exponentially over the the several years and trying to blame the pitch clock.
Certain folks just love to twist things to fit their agenda. But a lot have grown up watching certain politicians doing it.
What, someone had a pitch clock agenda?
I’m okay with ghost runner after say, 15 innings or something excessive.
Why not similar to Japan – ties after 11innings. Find a way to mitigate the occasional collusion such as on the NHL.
In Japan, they think a tie game is the perfect game. But society there is more about the whole than the individual like it is here.
Alright, back to bed grandpa
Also, for use in extra inning games, perhaps those going more than 11 innings, allow teams to re-use pitchers. A reliever who got two outs in the 8th inning might be fresh enough an hour and change later to pitch the 12th inning.
What would bulldogs like Seaver, Gibson, Drysdale and Palmer say to a coach that wanted them to empty their tanks in five innings and 90-100 pitches?
Probably words too harsh to post or print.
They wouldn’t say anything if they played in this era. It would be the norm for them.
Pampered athletes don’t want to do “overtime”. That’s one of the kinks. Like the players in the NBA wanting a shorter season but they don’t want their salaries affected. I know of nobody who hates extra-inning games.
If you don’t want to do overtime, then win the game in extras. It’s literally your job to play a game. Good riddance
Poor logic. The players have little to nothing to do with the rules. They are made by MLB, and they make them to promote their financial interests.
I take it you’ve never witnessed a 19 inning game that ends at 1:30 before? The ghost runner rule isn’t going away. Might get modified to start an inning or two later, but it’s here to stay.
I love a 19 inning game. That’s a great team match up. But I like baseball so I could watch it for days.
They should put the Ghost Runner on 1B and not 2B. That’s a good enough advantage for a run to be scored. I once read, and I could be wrong about the percentage, that when a SP walks the first batter of the inning, that runner ends up scoring something like 70% of the time.
Do you know how suspense is built? Extra inning games. The ghost runner kills that. I can understand the rule after 12 innings or around then but only in the 10th or 11th, it doesn’t make sense. If a team who wins close games loses every extra inning game because a ghost runner scores on outs in play, they could lose 10 extra games, which could be the difference of going to a postseason. It will happen at some point.
The reason they implemented it was to speed up games but the pitch clock rule does it more effectively. Ghost runner is a softball rule and it messes with pitchers.
“They could lose 10 extra innings games” or 12, like the padres. My point is your argument isn’t theoretical, it literally just happened to the padres, who missed the playoffs by 2 wins.
How about get rid of ghost runner in extra innings but also cut the pitch clock by a third in all situations after the 9th and no mound visits unless making a change
Players love it. As do ball park workers, many of whom rely of public transportation. It’s here to stay.
However, it might make sense to start it in the 11th or 12th.
I’d be willing to place a wager that most players hate it actually, they just aren’t allowed to speak on it. Regarding the ball park workers, or any workers, who cares? It is YOUR responsibility to get yourself to and from work. If you rely on public transportation, great. But, choose a job more conducive to your situation if the ball games don’t accommodate your lack of personal transport.
Totally agree, Beff. Manfred doesn’t allow dissension. And you’re right, it doesn’t matter what ballpark workers think. Don’t take a job that doesn’t meet your personal situation. The pitch clock has to go but instead, Manfred will double down with new stupid rules.
I’m really curious how you came up with your theory about Manfred not allowing dissension. Among who, the owners who employ him? If so, that’s some neat trick. Must be based on mind control.
Pitchers were pretty vocal about their dislike of the new rules. I think most players are actually pretty happy to finish work and go home, like most people in most professions.
It would be interesting to know what percent of stadium workers rely of public transit? Probably varies depending on the city. However, I seriously doubt they actually enjoy a 15-18 inning game wondering when they’ll actually get to go home.
It is pretty easy to hate on the working poor. If only cities invested in public transit?
@astros_fan_84 I’m not hating on anyone willing to work, just saying they have plenty of other options. Also, most large cities have good public transport. Houston just can’t seem to understand the importance and continues to be well behind the curve.
I mean if you’ve lived in Houston for any number of years, you know that the freeway construction just never seems to end. Ever.
astros – people throw the word “hate” around freely with no basis for it. No one is hating on anyone with our comments so you are trying to make controversy where there is none. It’s reality and common sense that you should make decisions that are based on your situation instead of making bad decisions and expecting everyone around you to modify to accommodate your bad decision. We see the latter way too often these days.
It definitely has a purpose. It’s so it’s easier to score runs and games won’t go 14,15,16 innings, which completely wiped out a pitching staff for a week.
LESS pitchers? Ugh. No. And can the ghost runner.
No, FEWER pitchers.
Fewer and less so commonly wrong, it really bugs me! Come on people, grammar matters.
Thank you. Even worse is when supposedly smart announcers and others say things like “the team with less amount of hits lost.”
Grrrrrr.
Go get em boys!!!
“Fewer and less so commonly wrong…” isn’t exactly great grammar either.
Try writing: “Fewer and less are used so commonly wrong; it really bugs me!” This should have a semi-colon because it’s two independent clauses.
Don’t call out one for grammar when your sentence didn’t even make sense. Sometimes it’s a common button slip that isn’t always fixable.
I’m correcting only in the sense to prove a point. I could care less (in this venue) how it is properly written, so long as I get the information. It’s not always easy when typing on your phone either.
> I could care less (in this venue)
> how it is properly written, so long
> as I get the information.
COULDN’T CARE LESS
The correct saying begins with, “I couldn’t care less”. Popular culture, littered with idiots, has coined the phrase, “I could care less,” because they don’t understand the correct usage. I could care less means that you do care about it—your amount of care is above zero.
Thanks for fixing my errors, but you’re missing my whole point.
As I said, I don’t care whether the grammar is right or not. I was intentionally pointing it out because the poster (Steve3) called out a poster and made a mistake himself. The bigger issue is the hypocrisy behind the post.
Read the Politics of the English Language by George Orwell, then catch my drift.
In a forum, who really cares as long as one can understand it. I make several spelling mistakes on my phone simply because my fingers are too big.
I understand. “Bigger battles to fight” and such. But that is how bad grammar spreads—Some casual misuse here and there, more people see it, some learn it, some forget what is or is not correct, and off it goes to spread further somewhere else.
I’m an English teacher. I’m not perfect but when people make a big deal out of grammar, it gets to be a little ridiculous. Grammar matters, but on a forum like this, it’s not really a big deal if the meaning is in tact.
It’s “Politics and [not of] the English Language.” It looks like you made yet another mistake. Still, one would not expect a reference to Orwell on a site like this.
It’s “Politics and [not “of”] the English Language.” It looks like you’ve made yet another mistake. Still, I credit you with elevating the tone of this discussion. One doesn’t expect a reference to Orwell on a site like this.
I don’t never seen no grammer nothin’
orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/…
And Clark is just stupid in trying to push for the division winner in the 3-game series to start it up 1 game to 0. I would be just fine in dropping the number of playoff teams to 6 per league and format it like the NFL. If they want 7 teams per league, then only the #1 seed gets a bye to the division series and the other 6 play a best of 7 First Round. move Division series to best of 7 as well.
When an 84-win team, barely better than .500, with a negative differential has a chance to win the World Series, too many teams make the playoffs. 4 is about the right number. Isn’t going to happen because of the money, but the playoffs have become a joke
If the playoffs are a joke, then how did that 84 win team dismantle every other better team?
They had less rest and were continually playing on the road.
Because anything can happen in a short series in baseball. It kind of showed THAT the playoffs are a joke. Giving mediocre teams a chance to get hot and win the series cheapens the concept of the World Series winners as The Champions!
The more important consideration is whether the system of byes is producing the outcome MLB was expecting. So far, clearly not. Maybe they will let this postseason experiment run for another season or so to determine if really disadvantages the teams that win a bye. But either way the owners are having this conversation already for sure because it really makes no sense to create a disincentive for teams to win the division, and it looks like this is what has been done.
Now that’s a valid point with the byes.
But just crying because an 84 win team beat everyone else is not.
I will say one thing. They shouldn’t let the NL Central in if they have a lower record than the Wild cards. It should be the best 6 teams overall, no matter the record.
If they did that, the divisions themselves should be eliminated because winning the division would become meaningless. MLB is trying to do just the opposite with the byes, but it seems to not be working.
Hey, if you like watching mediocre teams getting a chance to be considered the top team in baseball, well, why not just let EVERYONE into the playoffs. Lets give the Rockies a chance to eliminate the Braves! Why bother with a regular season at all…
Fine with me for eliminating divisions. There’s no incentive with a balanced schedule anyway. Another stupid idea.
@Judgment Day, I don’t agree you with you often, but I 100% agree that it should be the 6 best teams. The divisions aren’t properly aligned relating to geography, and the schedule is becoming more balanced. The need for so many divisions is only relevant to teams getting to hang trivial banners.
The best teams should make the playoffs, period.
Keep the number of pitchers where it is. There is nothing wrong with starters going less innings. Probably prevents injuries.
Why does Manfred want starting pitchers to stay in the game longer? I don’t see some big problem that needs fixing.
No, it’s not a ‘problem’ per se, but, I’m just curious… no ill intent in this question.
How long have you been watching baseball, and/or has the number of games or whole games changed much for you over time?
Here’s why I ask. If teams were forced to keep SP in the game longer, I think some focus in drafting and development would need to switch back to ‘pitching’ instead of ‘hurling’…
Years ago pitchers pitched. It wasn’t about how hard you threw, it was more technique. These days I call it hurling because guys sacrifice some control and durability because, well, hitters have largely abandoned strategy and contact to just sellout for power, also raising strikeouts.
So, what a game looked like to watch years ago WAS different than these days, at least IMO, even rule changes aside. And, I feel what kind of baseball someone was used to watching, and preferred, may influence their attitude on forcing changes to the bullpen reliance we see these days
John smoltz, maddux and glavine never threw a 100 mph pitch. Those guys pitched. The guys today including fried, strider and even old timer Morton hurl. Granted 2 of the 3 have the ability to pitch they often go to the tank to throw 97. That’s just a 1 team overview but it shows you what the Braves top 3 today do and what the top three of yesterday did. Fried, strider and Morton (if he continues) will all have ailments from throwing hard instead of smart and that’s what has really changed baseball in my mind. I play fantasy and watch all teams but being a hard Braves fan I can see how the game has changed for the worse. Today isn’t anything worse than steroids when you have to take every 3rd year off and have a 9 year lifespan that gets you to retire before you get your ten year and get full bennys.
I remember seeing todd van poppel being described a fireball type pitcher. The announcer said he could hit 90 mph multiple times per game. He was drafted near the start of glavine and maddux’s career. Towards the start of their careers maddux and glavine had a fastball velocity that was nothing to sneeze at. I remember maddux talking about retirement later on. He was pitching for san diego. He felt like he had thrown the best pitch of his season, fastball low and away, hit his spot got the call, got the strike out. On the way to the dug out he saw his velocity at 84 mph and said he knew it was time to retire.
Nolan Ryan consistently threw 100 mph, and often late into games.
Yeah and the guy was a horse for sure but 1 out of all the pitchers of his time. The big unit had the size to do it as well. Most guys don’t have the pure size to do that.
Well said. I recall a Giants-Mets game in August 1973 at Shea Stadium.
Juan Marichal shut out the Mets for nine innings, but Jerry Koosman shut out the Giants for 10.
Marichal was still in there in the bottom of the 10th for a pinch-hit single by Ken Boswell leading off, a sacrifice bunt by ex-teammate Willie Mays to advance Boswell, and a walkoff single by Felix Millan.
And that was just one game. Such outings were commonplace for starters then, often working in four-man rotations.
It was common for guys to pitch 300 innings and chalk up 20 or more complete games in a season.
I think in the 50’s and 60’s, team went with 3 man staffs. Can’t really do that now as pitching conditioning would take years and years to change back to that. In the 1980s, the common starting staff was 4 and I remember it being a big deal when the 1986 Astros started the season with an AGHAST! 3-man rotation to get off on a good foot. Nowadays, teams are trying to push into a 6-man rotation—just bonkers.
Teach the kids in the minors to actually pitch and not be so obsessed with velocity and you’ll see MLB starters come up pitching 7-9 innings on the regular.
Teams carried only 10 pitchers on a 25-man roster. Not only did starters go deeper into games, but closers typically pitched two or more innings when called upon to finish a game.
The 1986 Mets had 148 of 162 games started by five pitchers: Dwight Gooden, Ron Darling, Bob Ojeda, Sid Fernandez, and Rick Aguilera.
Gooden (250), Darling (237), Ojeda (217.1), and Fernandez (204.1) all pitched more than 200 innings over 30+ starts, and Aguilera pitched 141.2 innings over 20 starts and eight relief outings.
Blue Baron, not to mention the games where pitchers pinch-hit and (yikes!) pinch-ran on a semi-regular basis. Or starters who started a game late in the season in a pennant race on Wednesday and came in out of the bullpen to pitch two innings on Friday.
Indeed
Exactly, dylan. Warren Spahn, the HOFer and I believe winningest LHP of all time, said it perfectly. And I paraphrase.
Hitting is all about timing. Pitching is all about upsetting timing.
It isn’t about the players, it’s actually all about analytics and how it’s taken over the game. Like I’ve said before, lots of fans love the analytics game, until they see it played. Then they blame the game they they see on the field on managers and players, and miss the point by a mile.
GA: I’ve been watching baseball for decades. I see what you are saying. The older guys had more technique. I don’t really notice the difference, but when I see videos of older players, I can see the difference. You may be right that reducing the max number of pitchers to 12 would for a change in pitching philosophy. I think it may initially lead to starting pitchers staying in too long and giving up more runs. So, maybe Manfred is after more offense.
He’s always been after more offense as that is what he wants. More runs, more action and he and most think that leads to better attendance and more to it, more revenue. That’s all he really cares about. Of course–if more and more runs are scored, games will lengthen again and pitching injuries will rise even further than they have because of the pitch clock.
Actually, if MLB wants to expand, reducing the number of pitchers on each team should help spread out the good pitchers.
I believe team should be able to run their teams however they please, without interference. There are many stategies.
Check out the K numbers for older pitchers, and especially those in the HOF. Most of them did not average a K per 9 IP. Believe they were more focused on upsetting timing and creating weak contact.
Did pitchers before 1990 have to face the same hitters who have greater advantages today than they did back then? Please watch games from over 30 years ago, specifically look at the hitters, then watch the hitters today. Spot every difference you can find, and you will find out why the game has changed and why pitchers aren’t going deeper.
Hunter Greene is a great example of this.
Throws hard for four or five innings, hits 100 pitches and is done. He has no clue how to pitch, yet people drool over him because of the radar gun.
The scoreboard mph displays might be the worse thing that happened to pitching in baseball.
I remember when teams got by just fine with 10 man pitching staffs, even when Sparky played his bullpen like a pianist at Carnegie Hall.
So 12 pitchers should be diable with a change in philosophy. But please get rid of the stupid ghost runner.
Robin Roberts, who once pitched 28 complete games in a row, said he never knew how many pitches he threw. As for his velocity, he said the hitters told me if my fastball was losing juice. And when that happened, I went to Plan B which was throwing softer stuff.
Imagine that. A SP who threw 28 CGs in a row. Have we even seen 28 combined CG over the past two years?
More offense. Common knowledge hitters perform better off a Pitcher after facing him a couple times.
Used to be most pitchers took pride in going deep in a game
While NYM were probably more egregious, it sounds like nothing to call the whole precinct in over. Some form of “get your head right” IL stint may be in order.
It can’t possibly make much of a difference in competitive advantage. May even improve the on-field product if teams had more flexibility for maintenance days. Not for 10 days though. If that much of a mental reset is needed they should be sent down to the minors.
We already have the highest rate of pitcher injuries in the history of the game, so let’s make them work harder.
baseball pitchers for a hundred years were able to throw 30 starts and $225 to 250 innings. they are throwing too hard now and not throwing smartly. they’re getting injured because they throw 105 mph in the first inning. they don’t know how to pace themselves. if a man in 1875 could pitch 300 innings and we have better physical training now we shouldn’t have guys throwing 170 and being told they’re the best picture in the league
Pandora’s box has been opened. No going back now.
It starts in the minors. Today’s pitchers are not trained to pitch deep into games. They are trained to get through 5 innings and turn it over to the bullpen. 100 pitches and they are done. This thinking has hurt the game.
It starts in little league with pitchers playing all year on traveling teams.
Welp, it shouldn’t be about working harder, it should be about pacing themselves to consistently go 7+ innings.
But as GASoxFan said above, hitters are all swinging for the fences, so having pitchers throw with less effort per pitch is close to impossible since run scoring almost certainly would increase.
metzfan, 300 innings in 1875 were much easier when batters were more often slap hitters vs. today’s thumpers.
The rules changes for this season were intended to encourage small ball, and they helped a little. But power – both at the plate and on the mound – is where the money is, so the incentive to change just isn’t really there.
The game has become more efficient but, to many fans, less enjoyable. I’m not blaming “analytics,” because the push for efficiency was inevitable, I’m just saying for many fans, baseball is less aesthetically pleasing than it used to be.
@metzfan. In 1875 the pitchers box was 45’ away from home and pitchers were allowed to toss underhand. The pitchers purpose was to allow the batter to hit the ball in those days.
Maybe I’m taking you too literally but todays game isn’t like the original in many ways. Balls caught on one hop were considered outs.
Churchill,
Pitchers definitely were trying to get batters out in 1875 and not just let them hit the ball. And only foul balls could be caught on one hop for an out.
You don’t have to go back to 1875 to find pitchers who threw 300 innings. Believe Curt Shilling did it in this century. A few others, too.
The last MLB pitcher to throw 300 innings was Steve Carlton in 1980.
Baseball pitchers for a hundred years lasted 2 years 2 months in the majors.
Welp the idea is to work smarter, not harder. But getrealgone is right, there’s no going back.
“But one of the greatest things about the playoffs in baseball is, anybody can win”
Then just dump the season and have some big round robin tournament. There is no point to the season if you want the “anyone can win” BS.
Exactly. Just eliminate the regular season altogether.
@martras Right? Just have every team play every team. 3 home and 3 away. The top team at the end wins it all. Gives us a season of 174 and gets rid of some those annoying postseason announcers. I am half kidding with this but it does actually solve a couple of issues. It will never happen but same can be said for some other ideas as well.
MLB loves the postseason. It’s a huge cash cow. Ticket prices increase 300-500%, TV revenues increase, everything spikes in revenue and profit for teams involved.
Right now, MLB is trying to extend out the playoffs as far as they possibly can to find that sweet spot where people will still pay insane money.
Can anyone prove that Manfred is not an antisemite?
‘Can anyone prove that Manfred is not an idiot?’
There. Fixed that for you.
Highly doubtful considering that he grew up in New York State and attended Cornell and Harvard, both of which have significant numbers of Jewish students.
Legacy student. When the join certain clubs they get to have very good grades.
Actually, he was the first in his family to attend each one. But what does legacy student have to do with anything?
The very same Harvard who allowed a fraternity to outlaw having any Jewish members! The same fraternity that wouldn’t even allow them in the front door!
Go watch the movie, “The Social Network”. See how Mark Zuckerburg was treated by that fraternity.
Oh, and today’s NYU students are certainly showing their support for Israel, right?
Blue Baron, when you make an idiotic statement like you just did, it makes we wonder how low the bar is set that enabled you to earn one of those gold “TR” emblems?
I saw Social Network.
But that was a personal attack, which means you forfeit any credibility and automatically lose whatever argument this is.
If you have an actual point and would like to restate it without the personal comments, I will consider what you have to say.
Otherwise, thanks for your input, but I have no use for you and I’ll take my win and go home.
@Backup The TR badge denotes supporters. It isn’t merit based.
> it makes we wonder how low the bar is
> set that enabled you to earn one
> of those gold “TR” emblems?
All you have to do to get one is pay.
$29.89/year or $2.99/month
Why not amplify his ad hominem attack while you’re at it?
That was unintentional. Sorry Blue Baron.
Thanks, although my question was addressed to Hemlock.
He’s antipitcher.
No, but according to Tim Whatley, he is an anti-dentite.
Are you offended as a Jew? No, I’m offended as a comedian.
LOL.
> Can anyone prove that Manfred is
> anti-cement?
Yes. He prefers asphalt.
I like the playoffs how they are. I even like the number of games in each series.
I want the division series to be a best of 7. It works for the NBA and NHL, it can work for MLB. A 7-team per league playoff, only the #1 seed gets a bye and seeds 2-7 play a best of 5 (I would want best of 7) First round. Season ends on a Sunday, playoffs should start that Tuesday.
I’m sure few outside Eppler, the Mets and Manfred understand all the impacts about whatever Eppler did. If it was as simple as it seems I have to imagine this is just a slap on the wrist because everyone does it. Eppler quit in disgrace instead so surely there is more. They should be investigating the teams that have incompetent training and medical staffs and can’t keep the product on the field.
Hasn’t keeping players healthy, and especially pitchers, been an ongoing problem for the Mets for years?
Thank you Adolis Garcia. You make make Mo look dumber every time you do something great. That was awesome!
Adolis was a Cardinal at one point, right right. Well, that’s definitely a miss for Mo.
To say nothing of Zac Gallen, Tommy Pham, Jordan Montgomery, and Chris Stratton.
Why would you say nothing of those fine young gentlemen? What if their mothers or grandmothers are reading your comments and see that you say nothing of their sons?
OK, I’ll bite. What if they are?
Oh, wow.
(Points at Rabid Grannies on DVD)
I post a lot of comments. Some jokes, some serious. But I am not going to risk my life. The only thing grandmas love more than grandchildren is gnawing flesh off of human bones. If you don’t believe me, I warned you! Do not get on a grandma’s bad side!
Then don’t. I’m not losing any sleep.
Manfred talks about the integrity of the game but he’s changed so many rules I don’t recognize it anymore.
It’s closer to what baseball was, which is so much better than the three true outcome garbage it had become. Stolen bases are up, there’s less standing around adjusting batting gloves, pitchers no longer can take a full minute between pitches, fewer committee meetings at the pitchers mound and action is up. If you want to complain about the ghost runner that’s fine but overall it’s been a huge success.
What Joe said!
Manfraud needs to go.
Maybe if they didn’t have a 162,000 game season teams wouldn’t resort to phantom IL stints
The way the playoffs are, they might as well just get rid of the regular season altogether because it is really meaningless now. The Braves can finish 14 games better than the Phillies and the Dodgers can finish 16 games better than Arizona and both teams only have to lose 3 times to those same teams to be eliminated. No one can convince me that is right. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t teams in the same division, because divisional opponents know your pitchers better than anyone. But even then it’s just silly to determine a world champion based on the results of a handful of games instead of the 162 games played all year.
Not to mention how the potential 184 game season for the teams getting to the World Series damages those pitching staffs for the following year.
154 game seasons, 4 divisions, two round postseason.
In your scenario, why hold the playoffs? Why not just go back to 1965 and have the top 2 teams compete for the WS and forget the rest.
Everyone starts the playoffs at the same time. No byes as it punishes the best teams. Players have said it screws up their timing.
I have no problem with having playoff where teams in the same division compete under conditions of a similar schedule and the WINNER of that division going on to the playoffs to compete against other division WINNERS. Expand the league by 2 and have 8 divisions of four with each winner getting to the playoffs. No byes, no wild cards.
Good point. And even though I’m a devout Phillies fan, this is the second year in a row that the NL’s sixth seed made it to the WS.
With the way it is now, just making it to the dance means you have a chance for a parade.
BC to the BC, so you’re a bullpen catcher in the making?
Manfred is a feckless and pathetic excuse for a commissioner. His silly rule changes are destroying the game that I love. To preserve pitchers’ arms, why not let batters hit off of a tee? As absurd of an idea as the ghost runner.
You can always choose to not watch if you don’t like it. Your choice.
If it wasn’t for shady back room deals to protect other teams such as the Cheater Astro’s and other pieces, pretty sure that corrupt Manfraud, would have lost his jobs if anybody cared for anything else other than money. When is that thief going to return the All-star that he stole, from the state of Georgia using a lie perpetuated by the liar in chief? A normal decent person is able to come out and apologize for being wrong.
> You can always choose
> to not watch if you don’t like it.
> Your choice.
Not true! You don’t know that Steve9955 can or cannot choose to watch. Someone might have Steve9955 cuffed or tied to a chair in a dungeon. Maybe they cemented Steve9955’s face into a wall and the only view Steve9955 has is of the TV. Sad, but cement happens. They might even broadcast Rob Manfreight propaganda 24 hours a day to Steve9955.
And you don’t know him either.
But short of the ridiculous examples you cite seemingly just to have something to say because you are unwilling or unable to let anything go, it’s his choice.
That’s another idiotic statement by you.
Unfortunately for you, the commissioner is hired by the team owners and they clearly think he’s doing a great job for them. So maybe your real beef is with ownership?
Manfraud want pitchers to get injured more.
Manfred is the worst thing that ever happened to the game of baseball. That’s right, not the cheating, the steroids, or the scandals, but Manfred himself is the absolute worst thing in baseball history. The man destroys the game little by little each year
Manfred is a joke. First thing that needs to be addressed is the horrible umpiring. It is time for the robo-umps.
I wonder if the use of openers was even considered in this? That’s become more popular in the same time frame. Other than getting rid of the ghost runner, leave the rules alone. Although umpires this year did make a good case for robo-umps
Limiting the number of pitchers is dumb. Let the teams decide their rosters. I fail to see why it should be a goal backed by a rule, to have starters pitch longer. I too long for the good old days of complete games but you won’t get that with pitchers who throw mid 90’s or higher.
What happened to robo-umps? Weren’t they supposed to be implemented in the 2024 season?
It is not yet the 2024 season. Or is it?
Ghost runner needs to go, it’s pathetic and not worthy of MLB.
Of course the players want the ghost runner. They care more about going home than they do about the integrity of the game.
I don’t think the pitcher roster limit will do much if it’s at 12. Now if it’s reduced to 10 or even 11 pitchers, as used to be commonplace way back when, then we’re talking
Oh, c’mon, stop this already, Commish. You know this has been a thing forever. The Mets just got caught. Is it more widespread… of course, it is, and he knows it. I honestly can’t believe they will punish Eppler and/or the Mets too harshly, given the fact that many teams have been guilty of this practice. But going forward, teams will have to watch this, at least for the time being.
What about Striplings claim the Giants put him on Phantom IL?
If course it was league wide, just like every single thing in baseball history. If one team is doing it they all are, whether it is good or bad.
Putting a runner at second to start the 10th is something little league would be embarrassed by.
You don’t have to be a baseball “purist” to know that is a bad idea.
Add to that the embarrassment of having a bunch of out of shape guys taking 4-5 swings and returning to the dugout gassed. Nobody wants pitchers hitting, but it’s been suggested that the DH only stay in the game as long as the starter is in there – or since virtually all pitchers hit ninth, make the DH nit ninth.
Rob Manfred is the greatest. He has never done anything to alienate fans, teams or owners.
The teams and the owners are one in the same, and they clearly think he delivers for them, and that’s all that matters.
Losing Eppler seems like addition by subtraction.
Since everyone is harping on the ghost runner, I would say I agree. I’ve seen seasons derailed by massive extra inning games and the pitching staff being exhausted afterwards. Which FO complaining, it seems like just that. Complaining. It seems like part of the game every team had to deal with. But it’s equally annoying when your team chooses am extra arm over an extra hitter. Better roster construction seems to be the real answer to going deep in the playoffs. I guess you could feel bad for the fringe reliever who eats 4 innings and then is in AAA the next morning. But now I’m just rambling.
I’m all in on Manfred’s new rule of teams with a 10 run lead must put in the opposing teams batting practice pitcher for 10 pitches.
Manfred is an idiot. They just had 30% more pitchers hit the IL than in any non-COVID season in history and he wants to further limit the number of pitchers in the roster? What is he thinking?
I think the work around for “phantom IL” stints is to focus on mental health and make that umbrella bigger. Anxiety and depression are real things. Adjusting to the big leagues or struggling through a lengthy stretch could easily be classified as a type of depression. That’s not to minimize the affliction as I deal with it myself, but mental health needs to be more seriously addressed in professional sports. I know it’s easy to criticize players for failing, but then I remember that most of these people are extremely young while working in an extremely pressure packed job. Putting someone on the injured list to decompress mentally is hardly “phantom”. We just need to call it what it is-depression.