Padres manager Bob Melvin has been given permission by the team to interview with the Giants about their managerial vacancy, according to The Athletic’s Dennis Lin and Andrew Baggarly. “Melvin has emerged as the favorite in San Francisco, with league sources indicating that he received assurances he would be a top candidate before he agreed to participate in the interview process,” Lin and Baggarly write.
Reports surfaced two days ago that the Giants were temporarily halting their search for a new manager while waiting to hear back from rival teams for their go-ahead to interview employees. Melvin was chief among this new group of candidates, and it could very well be that the Giants were specifically waiting on the Padres on whether or not Melvin would be allowed to speak with the division rival. Melvin is still under contract with San Diego through the end of the 2024 season, though rumors have swirled for months about Melvin’s future with the club and his relationship with president of baseball operations A.J. Preller.
By this point, it would seem like an upset if Melvin doesn’t end up as San Francisco’s next manager. While the official interview has yet to take place, Melvin and Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi are quite familiar with each other — Melvin was the Athletics’ manager when Zaidi began his baseball career in Oakland’s front office over a decade ago. Lin and Baggarly note that it could create an even more awkward situation between Melvin and Preller if Melvin didn’t end up getting the Giants job, so perhaps regardless of what happens with the San Francisco interview, Melvin might not be back as the Padres’ skipper in 2024.
Back in September, Lin and Ken Rosenthal delved into the internal issues that have plagued the Padres organization even before their disappointing 2023 season. Chief among these problems is the allegedly frosty relationship between Melvin and Preller, though both men have downplayed the idea of any discord. After the Padres finished with only an 82-80 record this season, there was plenty of speculation that either Melvin or both Melvin and Preller could be fired, yet club chairman Peter Seidler gave a full vote of confidence to his management team at season’s end. Preller also stated soon afterward that “Bob is our manager, and he’s going to be our manager going forward,” seemingly putting the matter to rest.
However, many pundits felt a parting was coming sooner rather than the later, especially when the Giants’ managerial position became open after Gabe Kapler was fired. The past ties between Melvin and Zaidi made the veteran skipper a logical candidate from day one, assuming the hurdle of the Padres’ clearance for an interview could be jumped.
It is possible the Padres and Giants might work out a trade to officially send Melvin to the Bay Area, or the Padres might simply see this as an opportunity for a fresh start. Melvin leaving for another job rather than being fired, as Baggarly and Lin note, would save the Padres the $4MM owed to the manager in salary for the 2024 season. This tracks with the Padres’ overall plan to cut costs next season, ranging from both internal financial matters like a manager’s salary to player payroll.
If Melvin was to be hired by the Giants, San Diego would suddenly be in need of a new manager, though Lin and Baggarly cite bench coach Ryan Flaherty and coach Mike Shildt as possible candidates to take over the job. Best known for his days as an Orioles utilityman, Flaherty has been on the Padres’ coaching staff for the last four seasons, and was promoted to bench coach prior to the 2023 campaign. Prior to hiring Melvin, Preller’s previous two managerial hires were Andy Green and Jayce Tingler, who (like Flaherty) had never managed at the MLB level.
On the other hand, Shildt is a former skipper, managing the Cardinals from 2018-2021 and leading the club to postseason appearances in the last three of those seasons. Shildt was rather surprisingly fired after the 2021 season due to what Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak described as “philosophical differences,” and the Padres then interviewed Shildt for the managerial vacancy that was eventually filled by Melvin. San Diego ended up hiring Shildt anyway that winter for a player development position, and he moved into a coaching role this past season.
Get ‘em then.
Very strange. Suppose the Giants don’t ink him, how does he then manage his last contract year with the Padres.
Good point.
This is a good, veteran manager. Any team would be lucky to have him.
Yet two teams in the last 3 years have allowed him to walk away.
The A’s only let Melvin walk because they thought they were doing him a favor what with the A’s uncertain ownership, fire sale and attempt to move the team.
Melvin actually did a great job with the A’s young team.
They would have been a playoffs contender if they had not
conducted a complete “fire sale” of most of their players.
They thought they were giving Melvin a chance to make a lot more money and to get a World Series Title.
That was not happening any time soon with the A’s.
You know that because you worked for the A’s?
> how does he then manage his last
> contract year with the Padres.
Well, I suspect he just goes back to managing the Padres.
Maybe they’re trying to gain a competitive advantage over the Giants by finding out some of their evil secrets?
Or maybe they want some poker secrets from the big guy himself, Mr Sammy Farhan! (Farhan Zaidi is his business name but Sammy Farhan is his late night no-limit poker name)
I think the point was, how does the Padres players look at him after with respect.
He’s interviewing to see what’s out there. it is no different than if a player were to meet with another team in free agency, but still return,. I would suspect the players know more than we do about what’s going on between Melvin and Preller. I doubt either outcome (stay/leave) would surprise them at this point.
I don’t think you have to worry about any of that. He’s gone.
Evil secrets- an interview of we can’t talk about that but the padres can have Joey Bart for Melvin.
Much different than a FA player. He is under contract and would have to quit to interview to make a lateral move.
Players also have to quit (become a free agent) to discuss a contract with another team.
The Padres players are mercenaries. Who is their manager is of no interest.
Jack McKeon is still alive and available for the right salary.
Jack McKeon. Bring it.
This ⇧
Not sure it’s true that Melvin has to quit to interview with the Giants.
They already didn’t view Melvin with respect. Most Padres players felt that he quit on them because of his differences with Preller.
It’s very much different. Melvin was not a free agent. He was under contract for 2024.
It’s a moot point anyway since he will not be back regardless of the result of his interview with the Giants.
Sammy will never live down the Moneymaker bluff.
They didn’t listen to the manager anyhow.
@Lfgs MGRs or coaches do not have to quit to interview. They just need permission of tesm they are under contract with.
@CardsFan57 That’s not true. Sometimes teams make trade contingent on the player signing an extension. Like R. A. Dickey with the Blue Jays or Sonny Gray with the Reds.
@thelegendayharambe
The players still get permission from the team. My point is that no one under contract can negotiate with another team without permission from their current team. It goes for players and non-players alike.
Kevin Acee would be the perfect 2024 Pads manager
But if they don’t get the job they don’t have to quit their current one. That was my point.
Melvin doesn’t have to quit either. He’s still under contract. He will not quit unless he has another job. That way he gets paid when they fire him.
Pretty sure he is allowed to interview elsewhere without quitting his current job as long as he has permission. But it’s not gonna matter because the Giants have made no secret about him being their first choice.
Players finish their contracts or are traded. They don’t get permission to negotiate a new contract with another team from their current team.
Melvin will not be returning to the Padres regardless of the interview process with the Giants.
The Padres have kept Shildt on board because they knew that at the latest Melvin would be leaving after 2024. Melvin said that 2024 would be his final season when he took the position in San Diego. He is just leaving a year earlier.
That was perfect sarcasm. If I could vote it up more times, I would
Melvin is gone. He severed ties with the Padres.
He won’t. This is him leaving the Padres. He had to quit to take a lateral move. They won’t have to pay him no matter what happens with the Giants.
What I find fascinating is that Seidler met with Padres players that included Machado, Soto, and others about Melvin before allowing him to interview with the Giants. What does that say about their relationship with Melvin?
Jacob
6:44 What are the chances the Giants hire BoMel and what would your thoughts be on that hire?
Mark P
6:45 I think there’s a very high percentage Melvin gets the job. Can’t see the Giants going quite this far down the road if they weren’t already pretty sure of him as the choice, and likewise, the Padres aren’t going to let their manager interview with another team (especially a division rival) on a whim
6:46 And Melvin is a very good manager, so I can see it working well for the Giants.
The same way. They didn’t get along before this so nothing is really changed
Exactly the same way, as a lame duck.
Melvin is no longer a Padre. He would not have even asked for permission to interview with the Giants if he was not sure of getting the job. Either way, he is not going to be in the Padres dugout if what we are hearing out of the Padres camp is true.
Thanks all. Why didn’t they just have worked it out so he was officially free before interviewing?
Melvin has not separated officially from the Padres.
It is not that unusual to let employees seek other opportunities
especially if the Pres of Baseball Ops and the Manager are not on the same page.
Seidler is hoping that another team hires Melvin and pays his salary for ’24 which would get the Padres “off the hook” from paying for 2 Manager contracts if it came to that.
Have zero confidence that AJ Preller would hire a winning manager to replace Melvin.
It will have to be another trainee since experienced, winning managers have trouble working for and with Preller.
SportsFan0000
Melvin has not separated officially from the Padres.
=========================
You don’t know that. Preller could already told Melvin he won’t be back, but it would be in the best interests of both parties to not say anything.
That call is up to Peter Seidler since he signs the checks, not Preller.
Preller is encouraging Melvin to interview.
Melvin does not have to interview.
Seidler is on the record that Melvin is the Manager for next year
if he wants in since he is getting paid to manage anyways whether
he manages or forces Seidler to fire him and pay him for sitting
out on his couch for 1 year=.
Melvin is not going to quit and leave 4M on the table.
Wrong. Seidler expressed his support in both and that he values stability. PRELLER said that Melvin would be the manager in 2024. SEIDLER is who allowed Melvin to interview with the Giants. He also met with a number of players and others in the organization prior to giving that permission.
Melvin is gone. He will not return to the Padres in 2024. If you think $4 million matters in an industry where teams like the Padres are spending more than $4 million on a middle reliever you are delusional.
In other words,,,,,Don’t let the door hit you in the a…….. On the way out. What if he fails his physical?
I think the Pads have spoken with Counsell.
No one can speak with Counsell until after Oct 31st.
Dewey, I think this means Melvin is guaranteed not to be the Padres manager, even if he doesn’t get the Giants job. I suspect he will though.
Melvin is not stepping down without a new position in hand.
I’m suggesting the Padres wants to move on and it’s clear Melvin wants to move in. The Giants situation is the perfect opportunity. This looks to be a done deal already. We’ll know very soon, likely right after the World Series ends.
Maybe not. If you were SD’s chief WC rival, would you think about holding off for a month just to screw up SD’s next hire?
He won’t manage the Padres again. This is goodbye to Melvin.
Agreed. Assuming Preller doesn’t get fired he needs to go find a stooge to do his bidding in the clubhouse.
He will still be the Padres’ manager if he doesn’t get the Giants job (granted I fully expect him to get the Giants job), much to the chagrin of Pads Fans and his many burner account.
You are a stooge. Should he hire you?
Bob Melvin is like: “yeah im in a Porsche now, but wait till you see me behind the wheel of that Ferrari?”
Hope the padres hire someone like Ozzie guillen. Really embrace turning this team into a circus.
Nope, they’ll hire Nevin.
The Giants would be smart to further sink the Padres’ chemistry by interviewing and not hiring Melvin. The best way to run a circus is to take it to someone’s town.
That being said, I hope someone hires Alex Avila to coach. He has baseball manager DNA. He would be especially good in San Fran where they need a culture shift away from rahrah fan boy coaching.
Melvin is no longer the Padres manager. Either he is the Giants manager in 2024 or he is unemployed.
He’ll still be paid by the Padres if he’s unemployed.
He will still NOT be the Padres manager.
I vote Guillen. And I hope he shows up dressed in green military garb smoking a cigar.
You can hire Oliver Marmol away from the Cardinals for that? Not even have to bring a veteran out of retirement?
Bobby Valentine for bench coach
The Padres next manager will be their 5th manager since 2019. Could it be that it’s not the manager’s fault?
Know what hasn’t changed? The GM… yet ownership keeps letting him go out and destroy the farm system, spend aimlessly and underperform..
But yea, let’s keep firing managers!
I think GM’s are usually pretty good at shifting the blame. In Prellers case he likely keeps citing the big names he’s bought in without addressing what he’s given up to say he’s given the managers every chance to succeed
Once given the go ahead to spend money, Preller has quickly built a team that had enough talent to go to the NLCS. He then added more talent to that team. Even giving up some great prospects, Preller’s farm system once again has two players in the top 10 overall prospects in the game and has a farm system ranked in the top 10.
That they didn’t make the playoffs in 2023 is on Melvin and his self-described “hands-off approach” to managing the team. Anyone who watched more than a handful of games saw what that hands-off approach did to the team. No matter how many veterans there are on the team, they still need structure and direction. Melvin provided neither.
Once given the go ahead to spend money, Preller has quickly built a team that had enough talent to go to the NLCS.
========================
That’s not a compliment. They have averaged $249M in salary over the past three years, while averaging 83.3 wins.
Two straight seasons of under performing in the regular season and losing the team entirely in 2023 was enough. Las Vegas betting lines which are usually very close, had the Padres at 185 wins for his two seasons at the helm. The top 3 projection systems had them at 186. They produced 171. Melvin needed to go. Good luck to him and his hands off approach with the Giants.
Padres need a hands on manager with experience. My money is on Shildt.
The Padres have yet to hit $249 million in salaries.
From Cots Baseball Contracts
2023 $248,919,895 ( 3)
2022 $211,218,286 ( 5)
2021 $174,118,220 ( 9)
web, I didn’t mention Padres payroll. Who were you responding to?
Padres have traded away Trae Turner, Anthony Rizzo and who knows how many other good prospects. Depleting their farm for a .275 batting average Soto.
Soto does put up decent numbers, but most come in 10-1 blowout games. He’s not really much good against elite or good pitching.
Whittling Soto’s production down to nothing but his (totally fine) batting average only shows how little you know about MLB.
Bro, the Dodgers traded Verdugo and some other no namers for .310 batting former MVP Mookie Betts. That’s how you swing a trade. Not trading your entire farm for a guy with the same average as free agent Jason Heyward.
OPS > OBP > AVG.
Average is the % of time you get hits. Cool.. Know how I know average is flawed?
I’d take Kyle Schwarber hitting .197 over Luis Arraez hitting .350.
Schwarber hit nearly .160 points less, but had more total bases than Arraez. Arraez hits a TON of singles, Schwarber gets walked a lot. Schwarber had 104 RBI. Arraez had 69 RBI. Both hit mainly leadoff.
So explain to me why average is so important.
Schwarber hitting almost .160 lower than
OPS is the meaty number for sure. Average moves guys over, gets in the pitchers head a bit more, and gets on base more.
At the end of the day trading 5 guys for a guy batting .270 is just asinine
Look at that! Another post that further shows how little you know about MLB.
Betts only had a single season left on his contract at the time of that trade, Soto had nearly 2.5 years left at the time he was moved. Not to mention that pretending him and a 34 year old Heyward are at all comparable players is absolutely absurd.
Personally with as much as Soto walks and refuses to chase even slightly out of the zone, I think he should bat leadoff. He’d get more ABs, get on base for the top of the order, etc.
I think Soto is going to very similar to Joey Votto when it’s all said and done.
The Betts and Soto trades aren’t comparable. Betts was 12 months away from FA, in what was known to be a short season coming up, while Soto had 2 years and 2 months before he could walk. Thinking that Soto could be had for a Verdugo type and some no names is absurd.
Adam Dunn like.
Do we have to hear this every time someone mentions batting average to make their point??? Getting tiresome. It’s not the burn you think it is.
WRC+ says otherwise, not that i think its the end all be all. I do agree that total bases has a higher correlation w runs than OBP or average alone, and TB doesn’t include walks.
the Dodgers traded Verdugo and some other no namers for .310 batting former MVP Mookie Betts.
===========================
I find Preller, Seidler and SD fairly amusing, but you have to know that is an awful comparison. It was an overpay by SD, but Betts had one year remaining (and I’d bet they had an informal agreement on an extension), LA agreed to pick up $30M of Price’s salary, and there were two other pieces attached to Verdugo.
@JoeBrady Bingo!
Josiah Grey and Jeter Downs I believe, but none of them have made an impact which proves my point of trading Tin for Gold. Sure Soto had more years but he did horribly his first year and has a slightly above average BA since.
Missippi_has_3Ks
Josiah Grey and Jeter Downs I believe, but none of them have made an impact
======================
That was the brilliant Reds package for Puig.
But the fact that Downs never worked out doesn’t really matter that much. It is the player’s value at the time of the trade that matters. If the RS trade Verdugo for Painter, for example, I would consider that a good trade even if Painter never recovers from his arm issue.
They also got Tatis. And Musgrove. For practically nothing. In fact, they got Tatis for a pitcher that was aging very fast.
TIL that David Bednar is “practically nothing.”
Comrade Tipsy McBlotto
They also got Tatis. And Musgrove. For practically nothing.
==========================
LOL!
So does that “nothing” include a 2-time AS and a top-30ish prospect? Musgrove is a fine pitcher, but didn’t they one year of control, for two very good players/prospects?
What top 30ish prospect? Endy was never a Padres prospect.
My apologies. But if the only thing that the Pirates got was a 2x AS closer, it is still a good deal for them.
Agree. There is certainly an argument to be made against the Musgrove trade for San Diego but most Padres fans won’t like it.
like it? I doubt SD fans would listen, still riding the high of a first franchise no-no, epic playoff performances, and ~ 3.00 ERA since the trade
Only had 2 years of arb left when the Padres traded for him. Padres didn’t make the WS in those 2 years. And while they did extend him that contract is underwater according to BTV so that doesn’t really move the needle. No hitters are nice but as far as the standings go they only count as 1 win. Really the debate hinges on whether the no-hitter was worth giving up David Bednar.
His contract today is irrelevant to evaluation of trade at the time. A 3.00 ERA counts for a whole lot. One player isn’t responsible for WS or not, if so most trades are failures?
Padres didn’t win the WS in his last 2 arb years and could have signed Musgrove without trading for him first so it’s really the no-hitter or David Bednar.
Subjective debate but SPs with such ERAs are rarer than a hens tooth, RPs not so much
Also acquired Tatis, Musgrove, Snell. Don’t forget the good as much as you probably dislike the guy.
3k’s – name a team that hasn’t traded away players that had good careers elsewhere.
Why is this such a point of criticism for Preller when every GM does it at some point to try to better their team (or cut payroll).
The farm system is a top 10 right now BTW.
The Dodgers haven’t traded any impact players since 2012 (when their ownership group came). The only one I can think of was trading Yordan Alvarez for Josh fields. But they’ve made great trades for. Taylor, J.Turner, Machado, Darvish, Scherzer, T.Turner aaand Betts. That’s hitting a home run in my opinion
Don’t forget he fired Buddy half way into the first disastrous 2015 season he put together. so he’s going on his 10th season as GM with one successful season and ownerships cool with that… talk about teflon!
Yes! And Andy Green was not his first managerial hire. It was Pat Murphy. Who he brought out of the college ranks to replace Buddy instead of promoting Dave Roberts from bench coach. AJ would also completely disregard Roberts as a managerial candidate, not even offering Dave an interview opportunity for the full time gig.
Dave Roberts is not a “great” manager, but he has a great roster to play with.
Dave Roberts is 100x better than Tingler and Green. It’s cute how Padres fans pretend they missed a bullet by not hiring Dave.
Not true. The real Friar Faithful know that Preller displayed his Meathead prowess by firing Buddy and then not acknowledging Doc. The beginning of the end
Dave Roberts was handed the most expensive team in MLB history. 11 straight seasons in the top 5 in spending. They have also outspent every team in MLB in international FA. They are supposed to win.
The Dodger’s have outspent the Padres by over $1 billion on player payroll since Guggenheim bought the team.
Preller put together a team that made the NLCS. Then he improved that team. That is his job.
Melvin’s job was to create a winning culture in that team and help them to reach their potential.
So which one of them failed at their job? If their were differences of opinion, who was the boss?
Changing the players does not mean he improved the team. Prellar put together a bunch of Prima Donna all stars. He did not put together a team.
Preller added players that were better. That was his job. Melvin’s job was to create a winning culture. Melvin’s job was to bring together what every good team has, prima donnas.
That’s a fact!
He improved the team by winning 7 less games?
Preller doesn’t play the games or manage the team. That was Melvin’s responsibility. That Melvin failed to be able to bring an incredibly talented team together to win games is his fault. 100%. That is literally his responsibility.
websoulsurfer
“…an incredibly talented team…”
I respectfully take exception to that. IMO it’s a roster with incredible talent, but not a good roster overall. After Tatis, Machado, Soto, etc., there are a couple really solid players like Kim and Cronenworth, but then there’s a huge drop off in talent. No way does Grisham play 153 games on a team with a balanced roster. And TBH at the time I was shocked that Preller was signing guys like Carpenter and Nelson Cruz. Gary Sanchez might provide some runs, but cost the team more behind the plate. Rougned Odor?
I love that Preller made that deal for Soto. I also love his Machado extension, but didn’t understand the Bogaerts signing at all. IMO they’re a team with incredible talent but an extremely flawed roster. And I see long term problems with the big contracts where they might be hampered in the future.
Padres pitchers and position players were 6th best in MLB in WAR. They were the best starting rotation. They had 7 positions that were league average or better with 4 that ended up at 4.0 WAR or better. All Star level of play. If not for the injury, his first major injury in 8 years, Machado would have joined that group of All Star level players.
There is no question that the Padres were an incredibly talented team. Injuries dampened that a little, but they were still better than nearly any team in MLB.
Bogaerts was better than Kim had been the past two seasons. That acquisition made the Padres better. Kim was better than Cronenworth. Cronenworth had shown in 2022 that he could play 1B and was better than any 1B available in FA or trade.
That they didn’t perform better as a team is because of the approach that Melvin took to managing the team. He described it as a hands-off approach. In-game decisions he left up to Christenson and Flaherty. He didn’t even require players to practice. Allowed them to make the call of whether or not they wanted to participate. When he did finally step in to make in game calls, it was often too late. His approach didn’t work.
Preller is old school. He is hands on. He wants the team to out work its opponents. If you are great at anything you got that level of skill by hard work in your field. You practiced your skills more. You spent more time training.
That is what the team needs in a manager also. A hands on manager.
Carpenter had a huge 2022 and no one questioned the move at the time. Everyone thought he had made the adjustments and his deal was cheap.
Everyone thought that Cruz was both incredibly cheap and that he would provide a veteran presence in the clubhouse.
No one questioned those signings at the time.
Pitching improved once Sanchez was acquired. Snell, Darvish, and others were better than with Nola behind the plate this season. I am not sure what changed for Sanchez but he was a good game caller and played good defense for the Padres. I am hoping they bring him back to share time with Campusano.
Grisham won a Gold Glove the season before and it was easy to see how the Padres hoped for offense closer to 2021 this season. Only 4 playoff teams got more WAR out of the CF position than the Padres this season. Grisham was not a good hitter, but he also was not the reason they were not a winning team.
I take exception to the claim that no one questioned those signings at the time. Carpenter had a very good 2022, but it was a small sample. 128 ABs is barely a quarter of the season. People tend to reject stats from 2020 because it was only 60 games, and Carpenter fell 13 short of that number.
I questioned it because of that small sample season, that he had posted only an 82 OPS+ the previous 3 seasons, his numbers were probably inflated due to hum being a LHH playing in Yankee Stadium, and that he was entering his age 37 season. If no one besides me questioned it then they missed several red flags.
Cruz had fewer red flags, but still was entering his age 42 season on the heels of a sub-league average season, 15% by wRC+. Everyone knew age was going to catch up with him at some point. It seemed like a sign and hope sort of deal.
Whether Sanchez had anything to do with the improved pitching is debatable. Pitchers generally improve toward the end of a season as evidenced by most no-hitters usually happening early and late in the season.
If my team had signed these guys I wouldn’t have been happy, and that is not hindsight, but something I expressed at the time.
Preller built a very poorly constructed team that does not add up to a World Series team the last few years.
And, he wasted away the farm system with bad, one sided deals.
Guess I don’t have to make a detailed answer. PadsFans already did. Preller did his job. He put a top-level team that had 11 All Stars and was above average at nearly every position on the field at both pitching and position players.
No one questioned those moves. The Padres were lauded at the time in the baseball press for making smart pickups on the cheap to platoon at DH. Those moves didn’t kill the Padres season.
The Padres were not even close to the bottom of the league in DH production. They were 17th in WAR and 14th in WRC+ in baseball. The Brewers were dead last in both. Arizona was 29th and 28th respectively. The Rangers were 19th in both. So all of your bellyaching about those moves amounts to nothing. The Padres were above average overall at the position.
The PITCHERS on the Padres said Sanchez was awesome. His pitch framing was great. His defense overall was above average. The Padres ERA went down with him behind the plate. You can debate all you want, but it won’t change the underlying facts. The Padres pitchers will be glad to debate you on it.
Obviously your team didn’t sign those players, so your comments are moot.
websoulsurfer IS PadsFans.
websoulsurfer — As a Giants fan with no dog in this argument, I have to say that I was —and still am— impressed with the team Preller put together. I don’t know why a roster with that much talent didn’t come together, but I find it hard to point a finger at Preller.
we all have our quirks
“No one questioned those moves.”
Here are some comments from the MLBTR story at the time Carpenter was signed.
“1 year wonder gets overpaid…”
“Preller is easily extorted.”
“He played like 45 games last year.”
“At Yankee Stadium…a move to Petco may not work out for him.”
“Preller is so bad wow”
“…Carpenter’s numbers are probably skewed by the short sample size and not sustainable…”
“I don’t think anyone expects the same results from Carpenter which is why fans don’t have him high on their wish list.”
“I’m a Padres fan and this is embarrassing.”
“AJ Preller is a freaking idiot.”
“…clearly a small sample size wonder. Before his time with the Yankees he was hitting like .150 over four seasons. It’s ridiculous that anyone would even consider him for a team with WS aspirations over a 162 game haul.”
“Carpenter is dead money right from the word go. I’m sorry that isn’t a signing you make if you have intentions of winning a World Series.”
“Regrets, they’ll have a few…”
“It looks alot like the Ian Kinsler deal. That ended well…”
“…that remarkable rebound in 2022 was a small sample anomaly.”
“…that 910 PAs, with an 82 OPS+ in his age 33, 34 and 35 seasons has more weight than the 154 PAs in his age 36 season.”
“$12 M for a 37 year-old that hit well in 68 games last year after doing nothing for three seasons. Horrible signing.”
“…37 years old. Three straight bad seasons, then hit well in 68 games, 21 of those in the minors. Less than half a season after three bad years.”
“There isn’t a chance in the world that Matt Carpenter in San Diego comes within 300 or maybe even 400 points of his “comical” OPS numbers with the Yankees.” (Actually it was 497 points less.)
Right, No one questioned it at the time.
And I’m NOT talking about the Carpenter signing, which was a joke. But the rest of the roster . . .
Lots of people questioned the moves at the time.
You just discount anyone who does not agree with your, oftentimes ,wrong opinions about players and trade evaluations before, during and years later in retrospect about tardes.
That poster has “tunnel vision” and discounts every valid comment that challenges his/her preconceived notions. And he/she is often proven wrong.
And like half a dozen different usernames.
There will never be a winning culture with Machado, Tatis and Soto on the team. To much ego with all 3. They are and have always been “me first” players so it doesn’t surprise me when they were asked their opinion/input on Melvin it was easy for them to blame their lack of winning on him rather than the players themselves. That’s the way it will always be with ego driven athletes.
As BIL said, EVERY great team has prima donnas because players with huge talent typically also have big egos. That Melvin could not create a culture in the clubhouse and on the field is his responsibility. No one else’s. Melvin failed to do his job. Instead, in his own words, he took a hands-off approach to managing the team in 2023.
The players never once tried to place the blame on Melvin. All season long Machado, Soto, Bogaerts, and others have said it was on the players to perform better. They were great leaders all season. It’s sad that Melvin wasn’t.
Your comments show you really have not paid much attention to the Padres this season. You only come to troll on articles about them.
“BIL” IS you!
Not trolling at all. My opinion and I stick by what I said. Melvin has been successful in Seattle, Arizona and Oakland with far less talent. All of a sudden he can’t manage in San Diego? Maybe if the players had come up with some hits in extra innings things would have turned out better for the Padres. They played much better in the last month of the season. Was that due to Melvin or the players?
Agreed. You have to be seriously deranged to make burner accounts so you can agree with yourself.
It’s Pads Fans, BaseballisLife, websoulsurfer, outinleftfield, PLTuna and possibly others.
mab, the fact that you don’t pay much attention to the Padres is obvious. Machado is a leader and a good one. Not once did he try to blame Melvin for the Padres problems even though it was obvious to Padres fans what the problem was.
Melvin didn’t manage the Padres. He said he was taking a hands-off approach to managing the team and did no actual managing. Machado called a player only meeting in late August where he reportedly told players that they had to do it without a manager because they were not getting the direction they needed from Melvin. Flaherty basically took over as manager in September. Between those two things we saw the results. That is part of the reason why the Padres allowed Melvin to walk away. They are the 2nd team in 3 years to allow him to leave while under contract.
The Padres players held a players only meeting in late August and told Preller and Melvin that they were going to carry the team to the playoffs regardless of the lack of involvement of Melvin in the day to day.
The last month of the season was despite Melvin, not because of him. Go watch the games. See what coaches on the team you see talking to players. Flaherty and Niebla. That is pretty much it.
Attempted to improve. Hard to call a team missing the postseason entirely after reaching the CS an improved team. But that’s the hindsight coming in. The moves looked like ones that would make the team better, certainly not worse.
It’s strange that Preller makes all these moves that should pan out, yet they don’t. Baffling, even. But it keeps happening.
you’re not paying close enough attention to what’s happening in SD.
Sounds like the Yankees 2.0.
Under Steinbrenner. Managing egos, not players. No results- there’s the door
Bruce Botchy all over again. It’s got to be the FO – Botchy went on to the WS three times and in the brink of possibly doing it again with the Rangers. Guess the Giants are hoping for lightning in a bottle again.
You can’t even spell his name and we are supposed to think your opinion is worth considering?
NONE of the FO that was there when Bochy left is there now.
None of the OWNERSHIP was there when Bochy left in 2006. We still had Moores back then. That was even pre-Moorad.
Who is Botchy?
The evidence keeps piling up.
Big mistake. Let AJ go, not Bob. AJ will hire yet another “yes man”.
Padres are a mess
Everyone praised them for spending soooo much money but in the end, they’re basically the Mets. Both spent so much and found failure.
At least the Mets knew when to change course. The Padres doubled down, even when it was apparent their ship had huge holes and so did their lineup.
What holes did they have in the lineup? Nola got beaned in spring training. Campusano was injured. Grisham was a known entity. Great defense. Bad offense. The Padres pitching was exceptional. So what were the holes?
Playing winning baseball was the biggest hole.
People didn’t say that last year. The tide has turned. But I agree with you. I knew their window would be small by the amount of money they were spending.
To start the season the Padres had less holes than any team that is currently in an LCS.
MAB that is your way of saying you know so little about the Padres that you can’t say what the holes were, if any.
Judgment, your anti-Mets is showing. Cohen spent big to make a statement and in 22 it worked. In 23, it didn’t but since Cohen doesn’t care about the money, they reinforced their system at the deadline. Boy has the game changed. Fifty years ago, Bowie Kuhn set ab integrity standard that today’s owners and commissioner only see in dollar signs. Too bad, a strong message could have been sent. It will only get worse…
I actually like the Mets, so I’m sorry if you implied elsewhere. I’m a Red Sox fan too. I just don’t like how the Mets are throwing money at players and hoping it sticks. I would rather see them in the playoffs than the Braves or Phillies to be honest.
I didn’t mean “really” but I do wish the Mets over the Yankees. I just have Judge’s logo because I think it’s funny.
Padres should run it back one more time before breaking things up. Too many times they were on the wrong side of a one run or extra inning game.
That being said, I’d be happy to have Melvin manage the Giants.
Next Padres Manager: Mike Schildt, make it happen!!!
Melvin was so good at making a managerial move one AB too late
Why would anyone go to SF Giants The POB Is In last year of his deal.
In San Diego their POB has a few more years on his deal.
If Bob M make the biggest of his life like to see Buck S get the job In SD
Melvin is from here; has deep roots here. This is Melvin’s dream job, dynastic drama notwithstanding.
Buck is hated in SD, mostly for his behaviour with the Musgrove ears playoff thing. The fans would run him out of town before Spring training was done.
I guess if you’re soft you’d hate Buck (not literally you- I mean fans mentioned). Sure it was annoying as a Padres fan to see the ear incident, but Buck ain’t afraid of superstar egos. Also Manny had praised him before. I wouldn’t be e surprised to see Buck brought in.
@Logistics Guy: I’m with you. Unless SF makes the postseason next year, Zaidi and whoever the manager is are gone. The team is more than just a free agent or two away from that. It’s a big risk taking the manager job right now, and I don’t know why Melvin would chance that unless he’s is desperate to get out of SD.
That would fit for Melvin. The Athletic had an article saying that when he was hired by the Padres that 2024 would be his final season as a manager.
Scottn59c, I wouldn’t be so sure that Zaidi is under some ‘produce or you’re gone’ mandate. I’ve seen this several times, like the disgruntled fans make that decision.
In the 30 years since this ownership group took over, they’ve had only 4 different managers, and 4 different GMs/PBOs.. They like stability, and unless 2024 is an utter disaster, my guess is Zaidi will be extended.
Jean, you could be right, of course, but I feel like there’s more of a sense of urgency this year. In the wake of Kapler’s firing, you can feel how the tide has turned against Zaidi. If a new manager fails to do any better than Kapler did, then there’s going to be an even greater sense that they sacked the wrong guy.
Scott, You may be right, but I think that sense of the tide turning is more about the fans than those running the team. There are extenuating circumstances to consider for failed seasons that some fans have no patience with. Those on the inside, who were probably part of any decision making, are probably a bit more understanding than those with a zero-sum outlook.
Buck has no shot at getting the job in San Diego. His actions with Musgrove pretty much ruled out any chance of getting that job. The Padres were pretty set on hiring Flaherty before Melvin became available. He seems like the logical choice now.
Either Shildt or Flaherty.
Many reasons. I believe Melvin only has one year on his contract remaining anyway so he could potentially get more guaranteed years in SF.
On top of that, Preller might have more years on his contract but you have to imagine the patience is running out. If San Diego has another poor year there is a very real possibility that he is canned.
Padres will announce their new manager in the next couple of weeks and its probably going to be an internal candidate. Either Shildt or Flaherty.
This is really not a tough call…Shildt has the major league manager experience and was AJ’s guy in the clubhouse and AJ hedged his bet by bringing Shildt to SD and Flaherty has never been a manager and was Melvins guy. The Padres already did the “new guy-no experience” thing…Andy Green was a flat out disaster and the moment was just too big for Jayce Tigler.
My guess is Mike Shildt.
Flaherty will leave and be replaced by Phil Nevin as bench coach.
Phil Nevin would be a hedge bet in case Shildt drove into a ditch or imploded but I don’t think Phil and AJ would work well together.as manager/gm long term.
Y’all have a great day
or in the ultimate money-where-your-mouth-is moment, they bring in Acee to lead the team in 24
These are the droids we’ve been looking for
Ok that’s it. We got our guy.
Padres had as much talent as anyone but allowed a loose cannon GM to destroy their window. Absolutely pathetic a guy with ZERO 90 win seasons since he took over in 2015 is never held accountable. Let him pick his 5th manager!
That GM put together that talent. That was his job.
Managing that team back to the playoffs was Melvin’s job.
The pieces don’t fit and four other managers have tried, without it making a difference. At some point, if you don’t think its the combination of players, it must be the guy who keeps failing to hire the right manager. Still comes back to Prellar.
Only Melvin had the current pieces. The Padres didn’t begin spending until they signed Machado. Before that they were consistently in the bottom in spending.
The players they have, have won. The difference in 2023 was Melvin’s lack of attention to managing the team was the difference.
What players exactly didn’t work?
SS – Bogaerts put up 4.4 WAR.
2B – Kim put up 5.8 WAR
1B – Cronenworth was bad at a 1.0 WAR
Those were the only 3 affected by the offseason addition of Bogaerts.
Compare that to 2022
SS – 5.2 WAR – Mostly Kim
2B – 4.2 WAR – Mostly Cronenworth
1B – 0.9 WAR – 5 different guys including Hosmer, Myers, and Croneneworth
Padres got better at those 3 positions overall.
Two of Cronenworth, Kim, Bogaerts and Merrill will have to be traded.
Tingler made the playoffs. Melvin made the playoffs. Amazing how it’s never Prellers fault. Spin the wheel of managers: next up Mike Schildt!
I REALLY don’t see Preller and Shildt getting along. Remember why Shildt got fired in St. Louis? If Preller prefers “yes” men, Shildt is not his guy.
No one in the game has ever said Preller prefers yes men. Only moron fans. Shildt has been with the Padres for 2 seasons now. He knows exactly what type of GM Preller is by now. If he takes the job, he knows what he is getting into in advance.
Why hasn’t any other team considered Shildt in that two years?
Melvin said when he took the job in San Diego that 2024 would be his final season. Shildt has been assumed by many in the organization to be the heir apparent. He will just get the job a year earlier than expected.
Shildt turned down the opportunity to interview for manager openings last season. It wasn’t a lack of opportunity to manage again.
The Tingler led Padres missed the playoffs in 2021. The Padres were one of the favorites to win the WS that season. They won 75 games instead.
Shildt was fired in October 2021 and turned down offers to manage last offseason.
A GM’s job is to hire a good manager. Preller failed. 4 times. He needs to go.
Preller didn’t hire Melvin. Seidler did.
Preller didn’t have the responsibility of managing the team. That was Melvin that failed to create a winning culture and results. That is exactly why they are letting him walk away.
Who hired Melvin?
Seidler. Go back and read the Athletic at the time of his hire. Flaherty was Preller’s choice but Melvin was made available by the A’s so Seidler told him to pull the trigger.
Seidler hired Melvin. Preller was known to prefer Shildt and Flaherty for the position.
The Padres have since denied other teams the opportunity to interview Flaherty.
Shildt has turned down interview opportunities since joining the Padres. Several articles have said that its because he is still smarting from his unexpected firing from the Cardinals. But he took the Padres position in player development and MLB coaching because he saw something in the organization.
Bochy was Seidler’s choice, but he refused to work with AJ Preller, so Preller pivoted to Melvin.
Seidler never spoke with Bochy. Fowler did. Bochy never mentioned Preller at all.
Got to wonder if you make this stuff up or you are just wrong all the time.
Your reading comprehension is lacking. I see that you argue with everyone on this site who has a different, valid opinion on this forum that is based on FACTS AND MEDIA REPORTS,
Google it,
I don’t have time to walk you through every simple discussion.
Padsfans is correct. Fowler was who talked to Bochy and when Melvin was hired Bochy was not available. He didn’t make himself available until a year later. Maybe you need to try Google.
Padres fire sale coming??
Not at all. Do not be surprised when they extend Soto and sign several top FA including Lee from Korea. Seidler is committed to winning.
Yep. The Bally’s mess screwed them.
The Padres revenue increased in 2023. It is now in the top half of MLB and they are revenue sharing payors, not receivers. MLB paid the Padres 80% of the one payment that DSG defaulted on. They are seen on every outlet they were on when DSG held 80% of their broadcast rights and now the Padres hold 100%. That started the day after the DSG bankruptcy. They made between $27-$30 million off single game MLB.tv packages alone. That you still think they were hurt by the DSG bankruptcy is ludicrous.
Yet it is obvious they are cutting costs. There are trees in that forest if you look.
How exactly are they cutting costs? It’s not the offseason yet, so no one has any clue what the Padres will or won’t do except Seidler. He said they will have a payroll around what it was in 2023.
How tired do you get of being wrong all the time?
Go ahead and enjoy those blinders while you can.
Manny to the Yankees…Soto back to NL East Philly or Mets…. Darvish to the Rangers… Hader and Snell free agents. Tatis and his clown show gone
Soto isn’t going to the Mets
Lmfao. You are hilarious. Machado and Soto were among a group of players that Seidler met with before allowing Melvin to interview with the Giants. He is not planning to allow them to be traded if he asked their opinion before allowing Melvin to walk away.
Seidler is one of those owners that wants to know what the players think, especially ones he has invested heavily in or is planning to invest heavily in.
Seidler said the team is staying the course. That would indicate to me that he is not thinking about trading any of those players he signed long term away.
Soto is being shopped. Many articles in the sports media about it.
Nope. No articles in fact. So once again calling BS on your claim.
LMFAO!
Get over yourself.
Who made you the the expert on the sports media
enough so that you can dismiss reliable sources and sports journalists
who do this for a living and have, repeatedly put out factual, accurate info that directly conflicts with “your take” on the “facts’?!
Don’t forget this clown AJ fired Buddy half way into the first disastrous 2015 season he put together. so he’s going on his10th season as GM with one successful season and ownerships cool with that… who wouldn’t want an employer like that.
If you are familiar with the Padres, then you know that Fowler asked Preller to make a splash in 2014-2015. They had just bought the team 2 years earlier and ticket sales were lagging.
Preller did so and ticket sales went up 400k for 2015
When it didn’t work in terms of creating a winning team, Preller asked for and was given the leeway to execute his long-term plan with a goal to contend by 2021. He succeeded.
Along the way he built up a tremendous baseball operations with outstanding scouting, top line analytics staff, and one of the best farm systems in the game.
The Padres had record attendance in 2023 and 2024 season tickets are already sold out. Even with record spending, Padres revenue has skyrocketed into the top 14 in the game with Preller at the helm of baseball operations and according to Erik Greupner, the Padres CEO, the team made money in 2023. Never forget that baseball is a business.
We’ll have to dig even deeper to sustain our season tics next year at Petco. Fortunately my wife can afford them.
We had to make that call back in mid September when renewals were due. They are costing a bit more, but still a great value compared to other places. If you didn’t renew, you probably are not going to get season tickets in 2024. We put in to get 2 extra seats if they come available, but were told we were well down the list of people that wanted more seats even with over 30 years of seniority.
We renewed in Sept, same group of seats for 12th year in a row now.
Articles and news stories out there documenting, long time season ticket holders rejecting renewals because of the ’23 bad season and the price rises across the board for attending and enjoying Padres games.
Signing a bunch of expensive free agents is leading to price hikes across the board in many areas of the game attendance experience.
And the price of homes is through the roof
Season tickets are sold out for 2024. You CAN get on a wait list though.
mlb.com/padres/tickets/season-tickets/waitlist
Even SD Media News Stories about some season ticket holders not renewing after decades of loyalty to the Padres.
“Padres Permit Melvin Graceful Exit”
Fixed it for you.
So Preller gets off the hook and gets to hire his 45th manager.
What a joke.
Melvin was a great Manager in Oakland, AZ and other stops.
Some of his challenges in San Diego include a Pres of Baseball Ops
who has a bad reputation of being too hands on, hard to get along with,
bad at roster construction and trades and more.
He brags about working 24/7 365.
Most grown ups with families and a life do not want that kind of
a “burnout” schedule.
AJ needs to loosen his tie and get a life!
Melvin is the perfect hire for a young team to come together. Theyll need to hire again when it congeals into a winner tho.
If they don’t fix the roster, no manager will save them. Read article on Dubón on mlb app;
Under-the-radar 2022 trade paying off for Astros in a big way
12:12 PM AST
Brian McTaggart
“Dubón, who was traded for Minor League catcher Michael Papierski, said getting dealt from the Giants saved his career. He felt underappreciated and underutilized in San Francisco, where he played in 177 games from 2019-22. “ — Things like this happened in the past. Not only with Farhan, but also before him. The owners are the ones that really messed up. No change in mentality, more of the same.
I kinda liked Dubon but it is absolutely hilarious to see so called Giants fans now pining over his middling production with Houston. He’s a versatile defender with a below average bat that often made boneheaded mistakes on defense and while running the bases. Giants gave him plenty of opportunities to seize a regular role with the team and he simply couldn’t get it done.
Having said that, I’m glad that he’s made something of the opportunity he got with the Astros.
Isn’t it just. The things they latch onto. So funny.
Sure he made mistakes with SF. But he has the talent and didn’t have the coaching to help him develop in SF. A good example of that is that his “boneheaded mistakes on defense” while in SF has turned him into a finalist for a gold glove with the astros, he’s hitting much better (he’s made adjustments to his batting stance) and what did the giants get in return for him? Nothing worth the trade. The Astros know what they’re doing when they make trades or sign players. Any team will prefer to have him over Conforto and Haniger. And a lot, lot, cheaper.
sf fan;
B I N G O
You hit it on the head!
Most people posting here think that MLB is rotisserie league. If a player goes from one team to another he’s going to do the same unless for some reason he “gets hot” or washes out.
Like the other major team sports MLB franchises are run as individual organizations. Most of the kids on here never held a job (let alone ran a department of a company). If they had they’d know that switching companies or having their company move them under a person they report to seldom has them producing to the same degree.
The trouble with the Giants under Farhan Zaidi – as with the Padres under Preller – is that they can’t make more than a few of the players they have under contract better for more than a year or so. When the Giants elected to hold onto the players from their glory years even though they were building “the next championship teams” I thought it was a great and respectful gesture on their part. But that was years ago and now all they have is a hodge-podge of players on their ML roster that they tweak for a year or so (and maybe less).
I don’t know that Bob Melvin can succeed with the Giants – he surely didn’t make a large difference with the Padres. But Farhan Zaidi is one of those analytic guys that doesn’t understand the game of baseball and appreciate the human element, so he needs someone that lives in reality to bail him out. He really belongs as a #2 guy the way Sig Mejdal is with Mike Elias is with the Orioles. It’s not a knock on Sig – who I have the upmost respect for. But while he can do great things using his systems to pretty much run the O’s drafts as well as have his staff provide data on possible acquisitions of external players as well as data to the coaching staffs regarding players under contract; I don’t think he would be anywhere near as successful running an ML franchise. Which brings me back to Farhan Zaidi – the Giants haven’t had good drafts…and for the nitpickers that think the only reason the O’s have great prospects is because they “tanked” and got high draft choices – the O’s have at least 20 solid prospects as well as another 10 or so that they’ve graduated to their ML roster. They’ve been drafting for over 5 years, so only 5 of those prospects were taken high before other teams could draft them.
sf fan, You can’t assume the Giants were negligent, and give all credit to the Astros. For many players getting traded or released is a wake-up-call. Justin Turner for example got released from the Mets. He knew he had to make changes so he went to driveline and and revamped his swing. Some players just need to mature as well. All these guys have egos and they all think they should start and play more. A lot of guys don’t want to change what got them to the majors, until reality strikes. None of us know all the facts regarding Dubon, and the reasons for his now being more productive.
You can’t blame the coaches for Dubon’s mental lapses. The mistakes he was making were on things people learn in Little League. He was traded for spare change for a good reason; wouldn’t have been surprising to see him simply DFA’ed. Instead they got some depth at a position they were very thin at.
Hype him up all you want but Dubon really ain’t that good. Even with his improvements at the plate, he’s still a below average bat.
See JD Martinez after being released from the Astros. Went to Detroit understanding it was probably a late shot and totally revamped his swing. That decision and the work he put in to make those changes gave him 10 years of all star level hitting and a World Series ring.
Depth? What depth? I don’t even remember the name of the catcher they got for him. I’m not saying Dubon is a star. What I’m trying to say that that trade was bad for the giants with the roster they have. What about Conforto and Haniger? I already mentioned that. Nobody says anything about that. Are they better than Dubon at this stage in their careers? 79 million bucks for those two. Not to mention Stripling, etc. Little league mistakes? Lack of experience is what I saw. Same thing is happening with Matos and I hope they don’t trade him cause he’s going to improve a lot, hopefully.
Jean, I understand your point, in Turner’s case. Teams make mistakes, but in my opinion, giants have made too many in the last few years. Luis Castillo for Casey McGee, Brian Reynolds for Cutch. Those were great prospects in the minors. And not all is Farhan’ s fault. And the Mets didn’t do what some other guy did for
What don’t you understand about my comment about catching depth? Giants were on the verge of DFA’ing Dubon, were short on catching depth, and traded Dubon for a catcher.
Yes, Little League mistakes. The fact that you’re questioning that makes me wonder if you were even watching games when Dubon was on the Giants roster. The mistakes Dubon was making were more often and more egregious than what we’ve seen from Matos.
Ok, giants have the best front office in baseball. Just bad luck. 150 million to Haniger, Conforto, Pederson, Manaea,Stripling. Great contracts. They should extend all of them, they are underpaid … and get Kapler back. And fans should fill the ballpark every time so they can pay these amazing players and instead of little league, they’ll have a “legends/masters team”. How about that? I don’t understand why most of the fans are not happy. I guess they don’t watch games.
The Casey McGehee was 4 years before Zaidi took over, and the trade for Cutch was a year before. Too fans judge by hindsight, but blaming a guy for deals before his tenure even began is a bit harsh.
sf fan, Anyone preferring Dubon to Conforto is going to have major creditability issues with me. Dubon in the best full season of his career still was not quite as good as Conforto in one of the worse seasons of his career. The vastly improved Dubon had a 97 wRC+. Conforto in a down season had a 100 wRC+. Conforto hit 15 HRs in 125 games. Dubon hit 10 in 132 games. Statistically, Conforto had better numbers almost across the board.
I know Zaidi is not to blame for everything. I said it in a recent post. And I also said it’s really the owners that messed up this team after 2014.
Gold glove finalist. Polished by the Astros in less than a year. And still improving. I know, you think baseball is only hitting.
Splifftone—Gold glove finalist. Polished by the Astros in less than a year and still improving. I k now, you think baseball is only hitting.
Jean, I know Zaidi is not to blame for everything. I said it in my original post. And I also said it’s really the owners the ones that messed up this team after 2014. Regarding Conforto and Dubon, everybody talks only about hitting when talking about any player. Good. But no DEFENSE and pitching and you’ll lose. 100 million in contracts to Pederson, Haniger, Conforto. 10 million to Dubon, good hitter and a better defender than the last three combined. Gold glove finalist, polished by the Astros in less than a year, young , can run… better overall player.
Jean, I agree with you, in part. In Turner’s case, the guy that helped him ( don’t remember his name) did what the Mets didn’t do because they didn’t see his potential and talent. Mistakes happen, ok, and I didn’t say the giants are the only ones that make mistakes. But they have made lots of mistakes since 2014-2016. Traded Luis Castillo for Casey McGehee, Cutch- Reynolds. Regarding Dubon, I know he’s not a star. But he’s playing in the NLCS and Papierski was released by the Giants, then by the reds and is now with the tigers.
Splifftone; What kind of catcher? Papierski was released by the giants, then by the reds and is now with the tigers. Dubon is playing in the NLCS. I know Dubon is not a star. But the giants ended up trading him for nothing, and things similar to this have happened in the past, since 2014(Luis Castillo for Casey McGehee, Cutch-Reynolds). I also know that Farhan is not to blame for everything. It’s the owners, the ones that pay you. 150 million in contracts to Conforto, Haniger , Pederson, Manaea, Stripling. Great.
sf fan, Hindsight is the disgruntled fan’s favorite weapon.
You make it sound like every player is simply a vessel waiting to be filled with the knowledge of how to play, when in fact most are resistant to change. Most don’t want to deviate from what got them to the majors. I’ve heard more than one player say getting traded, or sent down was a wake-up call that made them reassess what they’ve been doing. Mike Krukow said as much about when he got sent down.
Again, none of us know exactly what went wrong with Dubon and the Giants, and it’s wrong to put the blame on the Giants. And we don’t know what went down between Turner and the Mets either. It’s easy to simply blame the Mets, but that might not be the case.
As to defense, I appreciate it more than most fans, and have argued how important a factor it is in a guy’s value. That said, by defensive numbers like DRS and OAA, Dubon is a better defender, but not that much better that his worse bat would be preferable.. Over more than 1,100 innings across all OF positions Dubon has 6 DRS and 4 OAA. Conforto, in more than 6,670 innings has -3 DRS and 8 OAA.
There is a reason why Conforto is an everyday player, and even with his much improved approach Dubon is not. It was a bad trade, but even if it hadn’t been made Dubon isn’t getting much, if any, playing time if he were still on the roster.
I’ve commented on Dubon for the same reasons. If he’s developed with the Astros it’s more than likely he is finally starting to mature/grow up because he was not ready for the big leagues when he played/screwed up for the Giants. Way too immature at the time. Should have been sent to AAA a number of times but Kapler kept hoping the light bulb would eventually turn on.
Not worried about Matos. He’s a heads up player and hope they give him the CF job next year. Unlike Dubon, his head is always in the game.
@sf fan: Oh neat. You realized you can’t properly argue against what I said so instead, you create some bogus statement out of thin air to argue against.
@sf fan: You have terrible reading comprehension. Nothing I’ve said should have led you to believe that I think “baseball is only hitting”. Most all of Dubon’s value is in his above average defense at numerous positions.
Once again, it appears as though you know you can’t win the argument you were in so you pull something out of thin air to argue against instead.
@sf fan: My goodness. You are really hung up on the giant nothing burger that was trading Dubon for Papierski. I’m well aware that Papierski didn’t work out for the Giants (or any other team since then). As I’ve said numerous times now: it was a depth move for an organization that was thin on catchers. Dubon was on the verge of being DFA’ed and they got something for him in an area of need instead of giving him away for nothing.
Dubon has had one decent season in his career and it didn’t come until he was 29 years old. Sure, it would have been nice to have him around this year to fill in for Slater & Estrada when they were injured but it’s nothing to get so hung up on.
mab52357, I agree. The giants gave up on him instead of doing what you’re saying and ended up trading him for nothing.
Dodger fan here, and even I find this laughable. Sure, maybe Dubon is having some success now playing more. But this isn’t Anderson for Bagwell we’re talking about.
Maybe someone in the Giants org is thinking Dubon might have been better to keep and play than what they traded him for. But no one is getting fired over it, no one is losing a wink of sleep.
I was—and am—a big fan of Mauricio Dubon, but he didn’t hit in his time with the Giants. So his sour grapes are unwarranted.
However, trading him for Michael Papierski,—no matter how hard up the Giants were for a catcher—was unconscionable.
Hindsight says the Dubon for Papierski trade was lopsided. But at the time Dubon was a well below league average hitter, and as stated above didn’t seem to have his head in the game.. Papierski was a decent college player who had an .816 OPS there. As a catcher he had intrinsic value than Dubon didn’t have.. And I don’t remember much outrage by fans at the time of the trade. It was a bad trade admittedly, but name one GM/PBO who hasn’t made one. But calling it unconscionable is way overstating it.
Papierski is in AAA in the Tigers organization now after signing as a minor league FA. Dubon is in the majors. It seems like the Giants have nothing to show for trading Dubon. What am I missing here?
Giants traded Dubon for Papierski and then released him, if that’s what you mean.
That was what I missed. So the Giants in essence got nothing for Dubon?
Dubon was a roughly league average hitter in his first two seasons with the Giants and then fell off a cliff. Then he went back to being roughly league average hitter in Houston this season.
Bochy 2.0
Bochy is one of the best playoff managers of all time. Melvin is perhaps one of the five worst. Both good guys tho.
Like this Rangers team is pretty mid but lo and behold theyre two wins away from a WS berth.
He’ll need two more after San Francisco to get California manager bingo.
From everything I have been reading Melvin left the actual managing of the team to Flaherty and Christenson.
Him leaving wouldn’t change much if that is the case.
Padres are a garbage-time team. They’re lucky the Rockies are in their division.
Since they finished ahead of the Giants in the standings, I guess they are lucky the Giants are in their division too.
ouch
Had Dave Roberts. Had Skip Schumaker. What about Matt Williams? Nobody mentions him.
And with good reason. Matt was a great player; he’d be a terrible manager—too much the “The Old Marine.”
William’s has already been a manager; was the NL Manager Of The Year in ’14 actually (even if his tenure ended in a whimper).
Another bad look for the Padres.
Shildt gets another shot. He might be the ***kicker they need.
Part of the problem is that San Diego is a very laid back city and that is the case with the Padres…Melvin would have been crucified by the press if he had this roster in another city…New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia etc but he got a pass in San Diego…he was very laid back.
People say the Padres don’t have a winning culture and Shildt would hold players accountable for lack of hustle, failure to play situational baseball and the whole diva thing that some of the players have…too many players don’t play for the name on the front of the jersey but the name on the back.
I think that if Shildt is the next manager the players would show some grit and grind.
I think it’s funny that people think a hard nosed manager can motivate people who are guaranteed hundreds of millions of dollars. You really need those people to be self motivated. It’s not like you can get results by rattling their cages or making threats. You go right ahead and bench Machado and see what happens to you.
It isn’t about motivation. Every player that got to the majors has incredible self-motivation. Its about creating a culture of family, work ethic, accountability, and discipline. A commitment to your teammates and to the fundamentals of the game. You don’t need to be hard-nosed to accomplish that. You have to be involved. Approachable. Relatable.
Melvin never did any of that. He said that he was taking a “hands-off approach” to managing the Padres. He allowed the players to make the basic decisions like if they would practice or how they should approach an at bat. He didn’t hold players accountable. We know those last 3 things because players said so during the season.
He abdicated his responsibility as a manager. Why he did that is up for debate, but the fact that he did it is not.
When he did make in game decisions fans were often left shaking their heads. Bringing in a lefty to face 2 straight RHB in extra innings or not pinch hitting in a close game for a guy like Grisham or Odor when the platoon advantage was against them. Those are just a couple of the examples.
They had too much talent to only win 82 games and I put that mostly on the players, but in my 54 years watching the Pads I’ve never seen a manager so scripted and outmaneuvered regularly. Especially by Kapler, ironically.
I dig Bo Mel but you can’t come back from this. Let him go…
Now the Giants are getting down to interviews of people they really have an interest in hiring. Everything before this was simply hoop jumping.
It is very unusual and telling that an employee is seeking and being given permission to interview for a lateral move. Normally there’s a potential promotion.
Not that uncommon for Melvin considering the same thing happened two years ago.
Very telling that 2 teams have now allowed Melvin to leave.
Wow… That is not the move to make. Guess the Padres will hire another puppet for AJ Preller and they’ll have yet another losing season.
Gee……
I read dozens of posts here the past month or so condemning Kevin Acee, the baseball writer at the ‘The San Diego Union-Tribune’ that covers the Padres for sowing discord.
The posters alleged that Mr. Acee made up a bunch of stuff regarding the Padres, Preller, and Melvin. Owner Peter Seidler released a statement that he was happy with both, wanted to retain both, and that there was only some minor discord between parties that could easily be smoothed out. Shortly thereafter he said it was smoothed out.
Ah-HA! Now it appears that the smoothed out manager wants to interview with another franchise, and that it’s fine by the Padres Baseball Ops guy and Owner.
The Padres aren’t an MLB baseball franchise trying to win. They’re ‘The Kardashians’. Make enough juicy moves and the locals are checking their smartphones multiple times a day to see what goodies Mama Seidler is having AJ bring in. And don’t laugh – the Padres finished 3rd in MLB attendance…same as they did in the 5 team NL West.
From this day forward, my posts on the Padres well be prefaced with:
‘Keeping Up With The Padres’.
@ Samuel. Haha, nice try there. My issue with Acee wasn’t about Melvin v. Preller, it was his attack on some players as not being leaders, despite all the players coming out to defend those players as great leaders. If you’ve ever played on a sports team, you’d probably understand that reality lies in what the players openly say, not in single reporters mythical opinion. To trust a reporter in such a claim is to fall sucker up to click bait.
Ultimately the failure of the team to reach playoffs is on the players. But Melvin didn’t seem to be able to handle managing star players and the stress of high expectations, he didn’t have the balls to make decisions like having Hader pitch the heart of an opposing team’s lineup in the 8th inning for fear or upsetting Hader. His conservative, no risk style cost them a lot of games. None of the players complained. Preller isn’t on record as complaining, but Melvin wasn’t comfortable. So he’ll go somewhere else and try to find that easy niche.
The Giants need someone better. Melvin, a former player with nearly 20 years as an MLB manager, couldn’t get his roster of superstars to play as a team. Giants have far less talented players than SD. I don’t see Melvin doing more with less.
couldn’t get his roster of superstars to play as a team.
===========================
I hear that once in a while, but baseball isn’t really much of a team sport. This is not like FB with a WR picking up downfield blocks, or a RB picking up a blitz.
He did more with less while with the A’s and Diamondbacks. I also think the Padres shouldn’t have fired Bud Black when they did but that’s obviously a different matter. On a side note let’s hope my Giants don’t announce a press conference to announce him as manager before Melvin’s leg x-ray results have already been looked at.
Padres already have a better manager in the system in Mike Shildt so it’s kind of like “here you can have him”.
Here’s the deal, he gets the job with the Giants, or steps down as the Padres manager.
I’m disappointed in his tenure with the Padres. In fact, we are better off without him
He isn’t stepping down from anything.
Mike Schmidt is awesome
I’ve been saying it all year, Melvin just needs another chance with a much worse roster if he’s ever going to win.
Shildt will make agreat manager.
Good move by the Padres to make a trade rather than just canning Melvin.
Let’s hope we’re not reading next year at this time about Schildt not being the right guy as has happened with the Padres numerous times recently. Also, they had less talent last year and made the LCS. Wonder who the manager was.
Just a few things I have gleaned in conversations with people I know in the organization and working in other FO.
Bob Melvin asked to leave the Padres. He will not be returning even if he does not get the Giants job. Matt Wiliams has been given permission to leave as well even though he is under contract for 2024. There has been no word about Ryan Christenson who is also under contract through 2024.
The Padres are expected to announce a new manager by the end of the WS. Most believe it’s an internal candidate. My guess is Flaherty or Shildt with the one not hired to be manager as his bench coach.
Prior to giving permission for Melvin to interview with the Giants, the Padres consulted with several Padres players and coaches regarding Melvin. Among the players, Machado, Soto, and Darvish are players known to have been part of those meetings. I was surprised that Soto was one of the players since he is a FA after the 2024 season.
Former A’s bullpen coach and former Padres El Paso Chihuahuas coach Mike McCarthy is expected by many to be brought on in some capacity with the Padres at the major league level.
Nice work.
Sounds divided.
He’s lying. He doesn’t know anyone in the Padres org or other FO’s. He makes the same claims over and over again from like 6 different accounts.
What he said about Melvin leaving for SF and probably being replaced by Flaherty or Shildt has already been widely reported elsewhere.
Great info. Thanks.
My money would be on Shildt. He and Preller seem to have a great working relationship and he is old-school about work ethic and fundamentals. Shildt also comes from the same scouting background that Preller did.
McCArthy is articulate and was well liked by pitchers in El Paso as far as I could tell. Who will be leaving the Padres MLB staff to make room for him? Hopefully not Niebla or Fritz. I really like both of them.
I have not heard that anyone is leaving other than Melvin and Williams. Christenson may follow his mentor to the Giants as well, but not if Williams is the bench coach as many are speculating.
I for one would be OK with Mike Shildt as manager. His success with the Cardinals speaks volumes. He is popular with the the players and an above-average development guy. Filling in for Matt Williams during the early part of the season helped at a critical time for the Padres.
He didn’t deserve what happened to him at the end in St Louis and the fact that the Cardinals have been a dumpster fire since he left speaks volumes.
Shildt did a great job with the Cardinals and was thrown over board
in some sort of power struggle in St Loius.
Even if they hire Schildt,
I don’t trust Preller, his trades
and his poor roster construction.
The Soto deal will haunt the Padres for a long time.
The Padres got hosed on that deal.
And, it will become obvious to all when those former Padres farmhands
become the core of the next Nats playoffs team.
Sports, it’s ok for a trade to actually help both teams. A trade doesn’t have to be “won” to be a good trade.
Padres were in a window to win and got one of the best bats in baseball history for 2.5 years. An NLcS and whatever 24 brings.
So, Abrams is the only guy working out well so far. Gore is no where near TOR as projected since his draft. Hasell want backwards. Even if one of the younger guys makes it, it’s ok that Nats get value back for giving up Soto.
Hope the former Padres milb guys do well.
It the Padres had it to do over, then they would have been wise to not make this deal. The big Soto trade has not worked out for the Padres as planned.
(No World Series Trophies, flag or rings).
Abrams is often compared with another former Padre SS traded away:
Trey Turner.
OF James Wood is @ AA and rated as a “60” player that projects to be a major league All Star and may turn out to be the best player the Nats received in this deal.
LHSP McKenzie Gore is the Nats #3 LH Starter who is getting acclimated to MLB and is expected to get even better. (Padres could use him now!)
OF Robert III was rushed through 3 teams in ’22 and 2 teams in ’23?!
Hassel has had wrist and hamate injuries. He needs to get healthy to live up to his promise as an above average or better starting MLB outfielder(CF?!)
LH strikeout artist Jarlin Susana (19 years old) was the Nats “Baseball America Rookie All Star” in ’22..
Again, the Juan Soto trade was a big gamble for the Padres.
Soto did not get them to a World Series and help the Padres win it.
Soto’s production in the 2nd half after the trade went into the tank.
And, the next year Soto got off to a slow start.
Soto started hitting after the Padres were buried in their Division in ’23
and had little or no chance to make the playoffs.
Maybe, Soto can’t handle the pressure and is not the guy you want to “carry your team to the next level”!?
Soto’s defense is nothing to write home about either.
Soto may be traded, again, and not get another chance with the Padres.
It maybe better for the Padres to get young, highly rated talent(s) either in the majors or very close to it than to let Soto walk for a draft pick(lottery ticket).
Soto was among the players Seidler reached out to for an opinion about Melvin. He would not do that if he was planning on trading Soto.
No one player wins a WS on their own. It takes a team. Soto has been everything the Padres could have hoped for in that trade.
Its Trea Turner and no Abrams is not compared to him. Abrams is a light hitting, great fielding SS that added no value on offense. Its unlikely he ever will. But he will still be an above average SS based on defense alone.
Gore is never going to be much more than what you saw this season. A o.8 WAR starter. That much is clear. That he is a #3 starter for the Nationals says volumes about how bad their pitching was. He would not have made the starting 5 for the Padres. Compare him to the Padres #3, Snell.
Woods is striking out at a terrible rate and only ONE major league player struck out that much in A+ – AA ball. ONE.
Hassell played at 2 levels last season. He has dropped out of the top 100 for a reason. He will not even be in the top 10 in the Nationals organization by the time next season starts. He was awful after the trade with no power and a low BA and OPS. He broke his hamate in October of last year during the AFL. It has a 4-8 week recovery time. He was not rushed back. He was just awful. In 600 PA at AA he has a .224 BA and a .663 OPS with 187 SO and 9 HR. He has reached his level of incompetency.
Susana had a 5.14 ERA in full season A ball and plummeted down the prospect rankings. He struck out just 8.9 per 9 IP with a 5.7 BB per 9. If he advances, it will be as a reliever.
@Pads Fans Right. Let’s revisit this one in 2 years.
Did you see Abrams’s improved approach to hitting this year? Assuming the Pads lose Soto to FA and Nats can keep Abrams long term, trade goes to Nats regardless of Woods eventual rise. Abrams might put up Carroll numbers next year.
I’m only 80% joking
He might be league average instead of below average next season.
Padres have to win a WS next year to make the Soto trade worth it regardless of anything else.
By Padres you mean Seidler, and if Seidler is enjoying spending his $ to try to win realizing he’s not likely to win a WS, how can you judge what is worth it to a multi-billionaire and his hobby?
Agree with some of your points.
Many would call that trade justifiable if the Padres turned it into a least one World Series Title.
If not, it was a huge gamble. that long term, they may have lost.
What part of the roster construction is poor? Be specific, because I don’t see it. The Padres were better in 2023 at the only positions affected by the offseason addition of Bogaerts. They were also better in the corner OF. By a HUGE margin.
The Padres didn’t trade for Soto. They traded for two players in the top 10 in hitters in 2022, Soto and Bell. So far, Soto has given the Padres everything they asked for from him and has outperformed the two players in the majors on the Nationals by a wide margin. At least two of the players included in the trade are not likely to be even league average contributors at the major league level. Hassell has flamed out and dropped out of the top 100. By the time 2024 prospect rankings hit in March he will have dropped out of the Nationals top 10. Woods is striking out at a 36.6% pace that would make him a 200+ K victim in the majors. There is 1 major league position player that had that high of a SO rate in A+-AA ball, Joey Gallo. Susana is a future reliever if he makes it to the majors at all. He struggled in A ball this season.
The Padres farm system is already back in the top 10 since that trade and after they add Leo DeVries in January they will be as solid and deep as they have ever been. Its likely that they pass the Nationals in farm system rankings and depth by the beginning of the 2024 season.
“Reports of the downfall of the Padres’ system have been greatly exaggerated after last year’s Juan Soto blockbuster. Signed in January, Salas has already become one of the five best prospects in baseball, while Merrill continues to hit everywhere and could factor into San Diego’s infield as early as next year. Snelling and Lesko — both 2022 picks — are early in their careers and look like potential future rotation pieces. Zavala has broken into the Top 100, and it doesn’t trail off after him with top performers Jairo Iriarte, Adam Mazur, Brandon Valenzuela, Nathan Martorella, Graham Pauley and Jakob Marsee closing in behind.”
James Woods reminds me of Kyle Blanks. Large frame power bats with athleticism attributed to being young but subject to falling of fast.
Blanks was like a 42nd round pick that peaked at #55 in 2009 top 100 rankings. He had success with HR to game ratio but couldn’t stay healthy. Career 4.2 WAR which as late as he was drafted, not bad really.
I hope Woods can stay healthy at least a few years so we can see what he does.
I agree completely with you analysis on the prospects and the point that Bell was a big part of sweetening that pot. Also dumping Voit was a factor.
All these people that don’t get it that prospects are suspects until they aren’t.
For me, Gore is a disappointment that may never be overcome. He was the “next Kershaw” type of prospect. Even if he has a 10 year #3 run it will be a let down.
2023 Padres bullpen makeup (aside from Suarez and Hader) was horrific and gave up too many leads. Also, if the offense among the 25-man roster was as good as you claim, why was their collective RISP among the worst in MLB? No matter the batting order, this was a team that couldn’t get many runners across home plate — that is a fundamental problem when trying to win games.
Voice – this is the problem when you start cherry picking stats and applying them unevenly.
Can’t get runs across the plate? How about +104 run differential for 3rd in NL. Hmmmm?
RISP – they were atrocious but their other offensive stats overall – one of the better teams in the league.
So, all that means is that they could not get the hit when it mattered the most about 40 times based on their 1 and 2 run loss record.
It doesn’t mean anything else.
Also, you are just wrong about the BP. It wasn’t nearly as bad as you say.
Only in hindsight did the Padres bullpen makeup look bad. Prior to the season it was seen as the Padres strength.
Suarez was expected to be the main setup man but missed most of the season. No one foresaw Hill, Garcia and Wilson all declining so greatly after great 2022. If you saw Crismatt going from a 2.94 ERA to cut after 7 appearances you are a baseball savant.
The Padres pen was the 10th best in MLB in 2023. Suarez was out most of the season, so his 4 ERA didn’t contribute much to the pen.
For the season the Padres had a 100 OPS+ and 99 wRC+ with RISP. That means they were league average.
The Padres were 13th in runs scored, 7th in wRC+ and in OPS+, and since their pitching staff as a whole was tied for the best in MLB in ERA and 6th in WAR they had one of the best run differentials in baseball.
The BP actually performed way above league average in general, and could have been much better if Melvin didn’t ride guys too long and/or place them in pre-scripted innings where they were in disadvantaged matchups
Again, go back and see posts above.
Soto has been a bust with the Padres.
Ditto with Josh Bell.
Both players mysteriously went into the tank in ’22 after the trade and forgot how to hit and hit in the clutch.
If Soto and Bell had been “as advertised, then the Padres may have made the World Series in ’22 with a chance to win it.
Bell has become an afterthought in this trade for various reasons. At the time, though, his inclusion seemed like a big deal given that he’d hit .301/.384/.493 with 14 home runs in 103 games prior to the swap.
Bell’s breakout season turned sour upon arriving in San Diego. He’d bat just .192/.316/.271 with three home runs over the course of 53 contests. That stretch dropped his seasonal OPS from .877 down to .784..
Soto in with Padres after trade deadline in’22 hit only 6 home runs 16 RBIs .236 average, .778 OPS?!
Soto’s production was a cross between Trent Grisham and Jurickson Profar after the trade deadline in ’22?!
The Padres could have had that production by just keeping all their great young talent and passing on the Soto deal.
And. it seems that Soto, who is hitting only .234 @ his home ballpark in ’23
(Petco Park) is a “bad fit” for the Padres.
Season ticket holders don’t care if he walks alot.
They don’t pay thousands of dollars per year to watch a guy payed 30M+ per year WALK.
They can see any no name player walk and produce the same level of boredom (and poor results).
It appears that Soto waited until the Padres were completely out of their Division race in ’23 to really start hitting and padding his stats for his next big contract.
I get it.
Soto cannot take the pressure, but with all the stars surrounding Soto on the Padres, he should have been able to adjust better and much more quickly than Soto did in San Diego,.
The Padres were picked to walk away with the NL West in ’23 and only a late season push prevented them from finishing under .500 and in 4th place in the NL West?!
Unless you are employed by the Padres PR department
OR Soto’s Agent’s intern tasked with writing articles to pump up Soto’s value for his upcoming free agent contract negotiations, then I cannot see any justification for a Padres fan pumping up Soto’s value and contributions to the Padres in ’22-’23.
And, saying it was “worth it” to trade a truckload of great talent and the future foundation of many pennant contending teams for 1-1/12 years of So So production from Soto?! That is laughable, except for Padres fans spending their money (many thousands of dollars per year) and expecting a World Series Title as a trade off for destroying the Padres farm system for only one player who could not produced like the Media advertised over hyped “star player” that was supposed to carry their team on his back to a World Series title?!?!
Nothing you can dig up on War Fwar, BWar. BSWar and all that other bullsheet will ever change those facts.
Fans want results.
Everything else, save if for your fantasy baseball league.
Oookie Dookie. You have your “truth” the rest of us will wish you well with that.
Speak for yourself, not anyone else.
Many season ticket holders have similar sentiments and cannot
wait for AJ Preller to be “shown the door” by Seidler.
Soto – 7.4 WAR 151 OPS+. Top 12 player in MLB over that time frame by WAR and top 6 as a hitter. That is not a bust.
If you are so wrong about that, there is no reason to even read that book you wrote. You will be completely wrong about all of it too.
That is your entire problem
Your reading comprehension is below average.
You need to get that checked out.
You consistently misquote me and others on this forms and go off on irrelevant
“wild goose chases” and do not address the issues
Example, you misunderstood my analogy comparing the bad choices made by SD sports team management (Chargers and the “2 Bobbies Ross and Beathhard and Padres Seidler and whether to hire Bochy or keep Preller)
You jumped on the date that Bochy left San Diego to go to the Giants and who owned the team in 2006?!
WTF?!
You created your own incomprehensible “rabbit hole” and jumped into it.
Another poster corrected you and got you back on the relevant discussion.
Your “circular reasoning” is also not conducive to intelligent discusisons.
@websoulsurfer Nobody believes your stories about knowing/speaking with people in the Padres organization and other FO.
BUCK SHOWATER
Just. No. No team should want old man Buck anymore. He has always hated young players.
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to just keep Bochy? (make no mistake, him leaving wasn’t his choice)
Think about this, when Bochy gets into Cooperstown, he will be wearing a ‘SF’ on his hat and not an ‘SD’ though he remains one of the winningest managers in Padres history.
Bochy left in 2006. Long before the current ownership of FO was in place.
It was only after he left the Padres that Bochy found an ownership, front office and roster all aligned to a commitment to win championships. Three rings more than he was equipped to win in San Diego.
He went from bottom 3 payrolls to top 10 payrolls. He went from shoot from the hip Kevin Towers to Brian Sabean who was on the leading edge of analytics and advanced statistical analysis.
In San Diego he was in for more of the same. In San Francisco he was finally given consistently good payrolls and data.
Kevin Towers was a great GM.
He was hired and trained by Larry Lucchino.
Larry Lucchino was Pres of Baseball Ops
before he went back to Boston to build teams that
won multiple World Series Titles.
INTERNS in the Padres Front Office at the time included:
a young Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer (now with Cubs).
Padres problem at the time was that they did not spend enough money on their payroll.
We saw what Bochy did in San Diego on a shoestring budget
and then with the Giants who spent much more money on filling and retaining talent on their roster.
Kevin Towers was a good GM that was given little in resources for most of his tenure with the Padres. He was a shoot from the hip kind of GM. He made decisions based on gut instinct and HE said so in multiple interviews. He worked for the Padres since 1989 when he started as a scout in his post playing days. After a couple seasons with the Pirates he returned to the Padres and never left again working his way up to GM. He was promoted from scouting director to GM by John Moores in 1996. .
Epstein was the director of player development with the Padres. He was an intern with the Orioles and followed Lucchino to the Padres. He worked his way up to become the team’s director of baseball operations before leaving for the Red Sox.
Hoyer was never an intern for the Padres either. He WAS the Padres GM.
Lucchino kept his nose out of baseball operations in San Diego. His main focus and the reason Moores brought him on was the spearhead the new stadium.
Also keep in mind that all 3 WS titles won were with much less talent by far compared to the Pads this year. The Giants had no ego issues and the chemistry/clubhouse was excellent. These qualities are critical to having a great team. No manager can change egos of the best players on the team. You either buy in or you don’t. I honestly think this was overlooked in building the Pads for this year. They have their biggest contracts tied up in a couple huge me first contracts. If a player has an ego issue and massive contract, no one will change their ego. Don’t know if the lack of chemistry will change for awhile. All that said, I think Machado and Tatis are special talents that could really lead this team to some great years if they start tempering their egos.
I know Acee said there was a lack of leadership and that theme has been a talking point ever since, but the players didnt think that. Tatis busted his butt this year and maintained a positive culture, and every player to a tee will tell you that. Soto played hard and played every game. Machado played despite a major injury. Do you need them to also be Winston Churchill? Meanwhile, Melvin snored on the bench.
You are COMPLETELY WRONG ON THE FACTS, AS USUAL.
GOOGLE IT.
This just popped up and I quote word for word.
The way Theo’s brain works, he probably could have done whatever he wanted to do,” says Kevin Towers, the former longtime Padres GM who was running the club when Epstein started full time in baseball in 1995 as an intern in San Diego’s media relations department.
And, you know nothing about Larry Lucchino’s management style
Lucchino was a known micro manager in Front Offices in Baltimore, San Diego and Boston.
He hired inexperienced Front Office Assistant in San Diego Kevin Towers and gave him his first job as a GM when no one knew who he was.
He also allowed Towers to hire Theo as a paid fulltime intern in the Padres front office. Both Towers and Theo “trained” under Pres of Baseball Ops
Larry Lucchino.
Lucchino knew where every pencil pen and pad of paper was in that Padres
Front Office.
That was his “M.O”.
Lucchino was involved in everything in San Diego.
When Towers brought the Ken Caminiti blockbuster deal with the Astros to Lucchino for his review and approval,
Lucchino told him that the Padres needed “more in the deal”.
“Be more aggressive”:
:Towers was quoted as being afraid that the deal was going to blow up and the Astros would back out of the deal if the Padres pushed too hard.
It is all documented in interviews and books from that time period.
But, of course, you think you know better than the actual people who were there and experienced it and were quoted at the time by the professional sports media
LMFAO!
Lucchino’s micromanagement in Boston is what contributed to the the tensions in the Red Sox Front Office.
And, it was one of the major factors that lead Theo to leave for the Cubs.
Theo wanted to prove that he could build a successful Front Office on his own
and win a Title on his own and not under the watchful eye and supervision of l;arry Lucchino..
As I see it, the field manager role for the San Diego Padres had been in a state of persistent churn since AJ Preller was first hired in August 2014. Supposedly, Preller was this generational talent as far as talent evaluation was concerned.
Since being hired, the Padres have made the post-season twice, with zero division titles, zero pennants and zero World Series appearances in nine seasons under Preller. Bob Melvin is the fourth Padres skipper under Preller (not counting interims Dave Roberts, Pat Murphy and Rod Barajas).
So, what is the common denominator here?
It’s far past time for Erik Greupner and Peter Seidler to make a change in the baseball operations side of things and fire Preller. By allowing him to hamstring the team with unsustainable longterm free-agent contracts, they share some of the blame.
The Padres record is what it is for the past nine years and that’s on the players Preller and his staff have acquired. Let’s face it, AJ Preller is not the savant he was made out to be.
Clearly, the Padres are doing a favor in letting Melvin interview (and likely sign on) with the Giants. BoMel is a decent guy and a keen baseball mind, but he never fit the Padres organizational culture and was hamstrung by unrealistic expectations. I do hope that he — like Bruce Bochy and Dave Reports before him — can find sustained success beyond the Padres.
After the order from Fowler to make a splash in the 2015 season didn’t work, Preller pitched a long term plan to ownership to make the playoffs by 2021. His plan worked. It also put the team in the strongest financial position its ever been, increasing revenue into the top half of baseball even though they are in the 28th largest market.
Melvin was not hamstrung by anything other than his hands off managing style. He failed to create the culture the team needed to win. Leaving decisions up to players is 100%? the wrong thing for a manager to do, yet that is what he did as the manager of the Padres.
One of the problems is Preller.
Preller is great at scouting and identifying talent and filling up
your farm system.
Preller is not as good at managing people, assembling championship teams, trades, roster building etc.
A sutil way of getting rid of a employee you don’t want. The way Beane did with Art Howe he let him go to the Mets .
Again, Bochy wanted back into MLB in ’23 as a Manager (bored with golfing and retirement)
Feelers were put out.
Bochy was interested in the Padres Manager job (before Bob Melvin was hired as a consolation prize)
The present Padres Ownership (Peter Seidler) was very interested in rehiring Bruch Bochy
as the Padres New/Old Manager.
The major sticking point was that Bruce Bochy would never work with a micromanaging
Pres of Baseball Ops like AJ Preller.
It was documented in the press with people close to Bruce Bochy
that Bochy would never work with AJ Preller who has a bad reputation with Managers around MLB..
As we can see now and what was obvious to me and many at the time,
Padres Owner
Peter Seidler had to choose between Bruce Bochy and AJ Preller.
And like ex Chargers owner Alex Spanos ,who had the same kind of choice to make
and, admitted later that he fired the wrong guy when he chose
to retain GM Bobby Beathard and fired Head Coach Bobby Ross in a power dispute/clash of Titans, Seidler chose the wrong guy to keep and not to hire Bochy.
Now Bochy, in his 1st year back Managing in MLB is a few games from another World Series and the Padres finished ’23 82-80 far out of the playoffs?!
“ And like ex Chargers owner Alex Spanos ,who had the same kind of choice to make and, admitted later that he fired the wrong guy when he chose to retain GM Bobby Beathard and fired Head Coach Bobby Ross in a power dispute/clash of Titans, Seidler chose the wrong guy to keep and not to hire Bochy.”
Peter Seidler was not managing partner of the Padres when Bochy was let go in 2006. The team was still owned by John Moores and Kevin Towers was GM.
Yes we all know that!
I did not reference Peter Seidler and/or the circumstances of Bruce Bochy leaving the Padres in 2006.
Bochy left the Padres for a better opportunity with a Giants ballclub that was willing to spend whatever it took to win a World Series title,
unlike the Padres ownership at that time.
I was comparing the Chargers situation at that time with Head Coach Bobby Ross who won a National College Football Championship with Georgia
and took the San Diego Chargers to their 1st Super Bowl appearance.
The choice referenced was between then Chargers GM Bobby Beathard and the best Head Coach the Chargers ever had in Bobby Ross
compared to the Padres decision in 2022 to keep AJ Preller and to not REHIRE the Padres winningest manager in franchise history and future Hall of Famer
Bruce Bochy.
It was not a comparison of why Bochy intially left the Padres.
I sometimes wonder if MLBTR posts about the Padres to collect on the grumpiness of (hopefully ex) Chargers fans on Mondays
The Padres had a manager in 2022, Melvin. Bochy was not hired by the Rangers until after the 2022 season. Are you trying to suggest that the Padres should have fired Melvin and offered the job to Bochy?
Read the comment again. He’s talking about the Pads just before the Melvin hiring.
The Padres hired Melvin after the 2021 season. The Rangers hired Bochy after the 2022 season. Bochy did not even interview for the Padres or any other position in 2021.
Ron Fowler called Bochy to see if he was interested in being the Padres next manager after Tingler, but Bochy said he wasn’t interested in managing at that time.
When asked at that time by Barry Bloom about the possibility of managing again Bochy said ““I think I’ll just say what I’ve been saying: I don’t think you rule anything out,” Bochy continued. “I’ve enjoyed doing what I’ve been doing, working with the Giants, going through the minor league affiliates. I went to spring training for a couple of weeks, but you never say never. That’s my mindset.”
A big reason why he retired was because of heart problems and he had moved to Nashville to be closer to his grandkids and wanted to stay close to home. Dallas is much closer to Nashville than San Diego. It was also a year later at a time the Padres did not have a job available.
You got everything wrong in that comment. Try again.
Sorry, my mistake, Typo on the date.
You need to re read what I posted, since you are the one who confused
my quote comparing the 2021 interviews for the next Padres Manager with Bochy leaving the Padres in 2006?
Sorry if I wasn’t clear there.
I was comparing the the bad decision made by Alex Spanos in letting Head Coach Bobby Ross leave and keeping the GM Bobby Beathhard
with the Padres and Seidler’s dilemma of either keeping AJ Preller as Pres of Baseball Ops OR letting him go and hiring Bruce Bochy as Manager in ’21 or ’22.
Bob Melvin was the second or 3rd choice in the process.
In 2021, word was out in the Media and MLB Community that Bruce Bochy wanted back into MLB as a Manager.
Bruce Bochy made it clear that he was looking to get back into MLB as a Manager in ’21 -’22 .
It was all over the sports media at that time.
It was, also, all over the sports media at that time
that Bochy would not work with someone like AJ Preller.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/will-padres-hire-bruce-boch…
You post an article that does not back your assertions. Do you even READ them before you link to them?
BOCHY LEADS RANGERS IN PLAYOFF HUNT AFTER FREE-AGENT SPENDING SPREE
sportico.com/leagues/baseball/2023/bochy-has-range…
Notice the line in the article Bochy prefers old school managing based on skills and experience versus over emphasis on analytics:
The reasons for Bochy’s San Francisco departure were compound. Among them, he didn’t want to work for their analytically driven GM Farhan Zaidi. “I’ve adjusted to the new rules and the analytics, but I liked managing better in the old days,” he said this week.
Rob Thomson and Dave Dombrowski two “old school ” type baseball guys are now only a few games from another World Series also.
Analytics has its place and value, but
actual experience, wisdom, judgment, chemistry and other intangibles should never be relegated to the back seat in the decision making process in MLB.
Thank you. Bochy has too much class to say he left the Giants because of Zaidi but that’s what happened. And because of that the Giants lost a great manager. I’m happy for him landing the Texas job and very happy for his success this year.
Much of the Giants fan base in the SF Bay Area believe
that Bochy was being “forced out” in SF.
It wa
Bochy preempted Zaidi (saw the writing on the wall)
and “retired”.
Bochy would take a few years off and then get back into the game.
He did have some manageable health problems, but was keen on continuing to manage in MLB.
Bochy said the opposite. si.com/mlb/rangers/news/texas-rangers-bruce-bochy-…
and
theathletic.com/4595666/2023/06/12/bruce-bochey-ra…
Bochy was a manager under Sabean who was one of the leaders in analytics and advanced data analysis in baseball. Since Chris Young took over the Rangers they have exploded the size of their analytics department.
But keep on talking out of your behind.
Again, Bochy makes the decisions based on his experience, his wisdom, his intellect, his creative outside the box thinking and he will also listen to what the analytic guys have to say. But, the decision is made totally by Bochy according to other Managers and Coaches in MLB who know Bochy.
Bochy refused to work for and with AJ Preller since Bochy does not believe that analytics should take over the decision-making of the Manager.
Bochy will not let the computers make the decisions for him
and would not tolerate Preller or someone like him calling the dugout
trying have the computer manage the games for him.
Again you are wrong. Read the articles. Bochy has chosen TWO straight jobs with organizations that were among the top in analytics. He said he uses that information to help his team be better. There is no discussion here. Its his words.
Bochy NEVER refused to work with Preller. That is a flat out lie. Why you keep trying to float that BS is beyond me. It just makes you look worse each time.
he has his story and he’s sticking to it.
Again. Bochy had a long history with the Padres and made his offseason home in Poway for decades. His kid went to school there.
Bochy’s 1st choice was to return to the Padres.
The Padres Ownership’s 1st choice was to hire Bochy.
Bochy refuse to work with Preller.
Google it.
Go badger Matt Snyder author of the article on CBS/MLB.
Call Matt Snyder a liar and see how far you get with that lol!
I gave you the link to Matt Snyder/s article (unlike you, he is a professional sports journalist who checks his FACTS.
Snyder’s article where he quoted directly form “The Athletic” about Bochy would never work with AJ Preller.
You. most likely, did not read it since anything that upsets your faulty analysis and incorrect conclusions not supported by the facts, you ignore.
SPOON FEED FOR THOSE ON RECESS
Then again, a report in The Athletic from Friday said the following regarding a possible Bochy hire:
Multiple people expressed doubt that Bochy, who managed the Padres from 1995 to 2006 and led them to their last World Series appearance in ’98, would come out of retirement to work for a GM as hands-on as Preller.
“There’s no way f—ing Bochy goes in and deals with all that,” said one former big-league manager. “There’s no way.”
Again, your opinions are often proven to not be backed up by the facts.
You are entitled to your opinions and free speech.
But, relying on your opinions to try to re write the documented historical narrative made by people who were there and witnessed it and are quoted on its accuracy, does not hold any sway or water in a discussion.
You make up your own facts.
Then, when people on this forum “call you out on the inaccuracies
and opinions not supported by facts”, then you have tantrums and start the name calling
What are you in elementary school?!
You do not know what you are talking about much of the time.
Of course Bochy will parrot what the interviewers want to hear
about analytics.
He uses it like you use seasoning or salt and pepper on food
(sparingly and it almost never overrides his experience, his “gut feelings”
his “MO” that has seen him win what 4 World Series Titles
and a National League Pennant with the Padres?!
The players and his coaches know what is up with Bochy.
Max Scherzer a new starter for the Rangers @ the traded deadline
was quoted as saying: Bruce Bochy is old school” in how he manages.
He will look at the analytics, but when he makes a decision it
is heavily weighted on what he knows, what has worked for him and his teams
his entire career “OLD SCHOOL”>
Thompson is pretty bad, imho. He pulls his SPs on a whim.
Then again, a report in The Athletic from Friday said the following regarding a possible Bochy hire by the Padres:
Multiple people expressed doubt that Bochy, who managed the Padres from 1995 to 2006 and led them to their last World Series appearance in ’98, would come out of retirement to work for a GM as hands-on as Preller.
“There’s no way f—ing Bochy goes in and deals with all that,” said one former big-league manager. “There’s no way.”
I call BS on that. I read every word of every article that mentioned Bochy the last week and none of them have that in it.
Here is the list of all the articles that mentioned Bochy.
theathletic.com/search/?query=bochy
Friday was October 20th.
So tell us which of those articles that mention Bochy have that quote in it.
As usual, you missed the pertinent articles and issues and just read the stuff that supports your own opinions.
It’s kinda just what he does.
Padsfans
We will have to agree to disagree on these issues.
But, let’s do it in a classy, respectful, professional manner
and skip the other stuff.
Ask Pads Fans about his sockpuppet accounts BaseballisLife, websoulsurfer and outinleftfield.
And ask him about his claim that Manny Machado wouldn’t have signed without Eric Hosmer.
Machado didn’t care who he was going to play for. He would have gone to whoever offered the most money. Not saying I wouldn’t have done the same though. If only he kept his ego in check and hustled more often he could be a good teammate like Arrenado and Goldschmidt. That will be a task for Schildt if he gets the job. Don’t think he had many egos in St. Louis
thelegendaryharambe
It wouldn’t surprise me.
L:ike those stories planted about Soto to pump up his value?!
Where do they come from?!
His agent?!
His Team?!
His Family?!
His marketing dept?!
Inquiring fans want to know!
If you are wrong or I think you are lying, as is the case in all of your posts today, I WILL point it out. There is the list of every article on The Athletic that mentioned Bochy. NONE of them say what you claimed. So what you did showed a lack or class, a lack of respect for the rest of us, and did not show professionalism in any way.
LMFAO!
Your posts, routinely, show a complete lack of respect for others and a rudeness by discounting the intelligent discussion of others and
trying (but not succeeding) to “talk down” others.
Professionalism is something that you are, obviously, not familiar with based on your petulant child statement.
When ever you, accidentally ,wander into a few good points and analysis, you ruin it by and blow any shred of credibility you may have had by rudely insulting others who disagree with you
Others, and I ,have pointed out routine errors in your posts where you: get the facts wrong, misread peoples’ posts, misinterpret posts, misanalyse posts, take every post that is not 100% in agreement with you as a “personal attack”, take posts completely out of context, completely miss the issues discussed and go off on wild goose chases completely ignoring the the entire point of the post and the background evidence that backs it up.
Every poster on this forum has the right to free speech, post and document what they say (or not). .
If they support their statements and analysis, and even provide links that document what they are saying, then that is acceptable to most reasonable people and posters
and are supported by the “know facts”, that have been widely discussed and accepted by professional sports journalists.
I am done with you.
You have zero credibility based on your behavior, inaccurate statement, petulant child behavior and more.
Others on this forum have posted/stated similar sentiments about you.
Maybe, you need to open up 3 or 4 more new accounts
to start over and rebuild credibility and respect on these forums for yourself.
Your beef is with professional sports journalist Matt Snyder who quoted the Athletic and other professional sport writers in his article.
cbssports.com/mlb/news/will-padres-hire-bruce-boch…
Contact Matt Snyder, call him a liar and see how far that gets you LMFAO!
Then again, a report in The Athletic from Friday said the following regarding a possible Bochy hire:
“Multiple people expressed doubt that Bochy, who managed the Padres from 1995 to 2006 and led them to their last World Series appearance in ’98, would come out of retirement to work for a GM as hands-on as Preller.
“There’s no way f—ing Bochy goes in and deals with all that,” said one former big-league manager. “There’s no way.”
Sports journalist Matt Snyder CBS/MLB
has credibility and checks his facts.
You have zero credibility!
What he lacks in credibility he makes up for in sockpuppet accounts “agreeing” with himself.