The Reds made a surprising playoff push just one year removed from a 100-loss season. While they came up short in the final weekend, the influx of young talent reintroduced a jolt of excitement to the organization. They’re no longer upstarts. To take the next step, they’ll need to address the pitching staff.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Hunter Greene, RHP: $50MM through 2028 (including buyout of ’29 club option)
Option Decisions
- Team holds $20MM option on 1B Joey Votto ($7MM buyout)
- $4MM mutual option between team and C Curt Casali ($750K buyout)
Additional Financial Commitments
- Owe $4MM buyout to released 3B Mike Moustakas
- Owe $1.5MM buyout to released RF Wil Myers
2024 financial commitments: $16.25MM
Total future commitments: $63.25MM
Arbitration-Eligible Players
- Lucas Sims
- Nick Senzel
- Derek Law
- Justin Dunn
- Tejay Antone
- Alex Young
- Jake Fraley
- Tyler Stephenson
- Jonathan India
- Vladimir Gutierrez (potential Super Two)
Non-tender candidates: Senzel, Law, Dunn, Gutierrez
Free Agents
- Buck Farmer, Joey Votto (assuming option declined), Luke Maile, Curt Casali, Harrison Bader
Few outside the Cincinnati organization expected the Reds to hang in the playoff mix all season. They made a rapid jump from clear rebuilder to potential Wild Card team as they graduated a number of talented young players, largely on the position player side.
There’s more reason for optimism than there has been entering each of the previous two offseasons. Ownership is clearly happy with the organizational direction. The Reds signed manager David Bell to a three-year extension in July. Last week, they promoted front office head Nick Krall from GM to president of baseball operations in conjunction with an extension of undisclosed length. Brad Meador received the general manager title, solidifying him as the #2 executive.
The focus now turns to the roster. Cincinnati’s first offseason decision is a straightforward one, though it could mark the symbolic end of a previous era in franchise history. The guaranteed portion of Joey Votto’s 10-year, $225MM extension has wrapped up. The Reds will obviously opt for a $7MM buyout in lieu of a $20MM club option, sending Votto to the open market for the first time in his career. The $13MM price point is beyond what a 40-year-old first baseman coming off a second straight middling offensive season could find in free agency.
Votto, of course, has constructed a strong Hall of Fame case during his 17 years in Cincinnati. He won the 2010 NL MVP and finished in the top three in balloting on two more occasions. He’s a career .294/.409/.511 hitter who ranks 93rd in major league history having reached base 3581 times, the highest mark for any active player. Votto is one of the greatest players in franchise history and among the most productive first basemen ever.
It’s not a guarantee that Votto’s time in Cincinnati is complete. The six-time All-Star has thus far been noncommittal about whether he’ll continue his playing career. After Sunday’s season finale, he told the beat he “just (doesn’t) have an answer yet” about his future (link via Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer). The Reds could certainly look to bring him back on a cheaper one-year pact if he wants to return for an 18th season.
While Votto is a franchise icon, the Reds aren’t facing the loss of much 2023 on-field production from any of their impending free agents. They’ll decline their end of a $4MM mutual option on backup catcher Curt Casali. Third backstop Luke Maile heads back to the open market, though the Northern Kentucky native would probably be open to another cheap one-year pact to stick with the Reds if they wanted to keep him as the #2 catcher.
Cincinnati got surprisingly little from that position this past season. Tyler Stephenson entered the year as one of the game’s most promising young catchers. The Reds hoped that more time divided between catching and designated hitter would keep him healthy after a series of fluke injuries impacted his ’22 campaign. That proved to be the case, but Stephenson didn’t hit well. Over a career-high 517 plate appearances, he managed only a .242/.317/.378 line — well off the .296/.369/.454 pace he carried into the year.
He hit the ball reasonably hard, although his grounder rate spiked dramatically in the second half. Stephenson was one of the few controllable position players who underperformed expectations. Given his pre-2023 track record and a weak free agent catching class, the Reds probably give him another chance as the #1 option. They’ll need to sign at least one backup, whether Maile or a similar player.
Cincinnati is unlikely to make many additions on the infield dirt. They have a deep collection of young talent. Spencer Steer can play any of the corner spots on the diamond and saw limited action at second base. He is not a great defender anywhere but hit his way into the lineup across multiple positions. It’s a similar story with Christian Encarnacion-Strand, another rookie corner infielder who joined the Reds in the lopsided Tyler Mahle trade with Minnesota.
Steer is the more complete hitter at this point, while Encarnacion-Strand covered for middling plate discipline with plus power. They both managed above-average results in their first extended looks at big league arms — Steer had struggled in a cup of coffee on the 2022 team — and look like potential middle-of-the-order bats from the right side. Encarnacion-Strand saw the bulk of his time at first base and DH down the stretch.
That’s in part because he isn’t a great third base defender, though it also hints at the amount of up-the-middle talent the Reds possess. Matt McLain had arguably the best rookie campaign of any Cincinnati player, hitting .290/.357/.507 with 16 homers in 89 games before a season-ending oblique injury. He seized the primary shortstop job. That pushed Elly De La Cruz and Noelvi Marte — both of whom came up primarily as shortstop prospects — to the hot corner.
Marte also raked in a 35-game sample after his promotion in late August. The results were mixed on De La Cruz, who showed the tantalizing physical gifts that made him an arguable top five prospect but also the concerning plate discipline profile that left some evaluators cautious.
De La Cruz concluded his rookie year with a .235/.300/.410 slash through 427 trips. He hit 13 home runs, stole 35 bases and showed top-of-the-scale arm strength with regularity. Yet his overall defensive ratings were mixed and he struck out in more than a third of his plate appearances. After a scorching start, he had a rough second half. It was still an impressive showing for a 21-year-old at the major league level. There’s star potential for anyone with this combination of raw power, speed and arm talent — particularly with a switch-hitter who can play on the left side of the infield. De La Cruz’s consistency was behind that of most of his rookie teammates, though.
It’s hard to imagine the Reds starting De La Cruz back in Triple-A to begin next season. They’ll need a spot for McLain, however, and Marte certainly didn’t play his way down. There’s also an incentive for the Reds to carry Marte, who retains his rookie eligibility, on next year’s Opening Day roster. If they carry him for a full service year and he wins Rookie of the Year, they’d receive an extra draft choice via the Prospect Promotion Incentive.
That surplus is before getting to the player who was Cincinnati’s best position player not too long ago: second baseman Jonathan India. The 2021 Rookie of the Year hit .244/.338/.407 in 529 trips to the plate. That’s league average production, his second straight season in that range. While India started the season strong, his offense dipped by June. He lost a good portion of the second half battling plantar fasciitis in his left foot.
India consistently receives below-average grades from public metrics for his second base defense. It’s a bat-first profile and he hasn’t hit especially well since his debut campaign. There’s an argument he should be the odd one out of the very talented infield. His name surfaced in a trade rumor around the deadline, though subsequent reports quickly shot down the likelihood of Cincinnati moving him.
While the 26-year-old again stands as an on-paper trade candidate, there’s no guarantee the Reds will seriously consider offers. India is one of the more experienced players on a very young roster and multiple Cincinnati players have suggested he’s a key figure in the clubhouse. India conceded he was affected by the speculation he’d be dealt around the deadline, even taking a game off for a mental reset. The Reds may not want to move him, especially since his trade value is at its lowest ebb during his major league career. Between his defensive grades and middling offense over the final few months, India isn’t likely to bring back an above-average starting pitcher with multiple years of club control — even in a down free agent infield class.
Former #2 overall pick Nick Senzel opened the season at third base after struggling in center field in prior years. He started the year strong, at least against left-handed pitching, but his bat tailed off in the second half. Cincinnati sent him down for a couple weeks in August. While he finished the season on the big league roster, there’s a good chance he’s traded for a minimal return or simply non-tendered.
If the Reds hold the rest of their infielders, that could push Steer into the corner outfield. He’d likely play left field on most days. Will Benson and Jake Fraley each had strong results as left-handed hitting corner outfielders. The Reds shielded both players from left-handed pitching. Even with Steer seeing outfield reps, there’s room for a right-handed platoon bat.
Cincinnati brought in Hunter Renfroe and Harrison Bader off waivers as stopgaps in late August. Renfroe was quickly released, while Bader seems likely to sign with a team that can offer everyday center field reps. Someone like Robbie Grossman or Aaron Hicks — both switch-hitters who are better against lefty pitching — could make sense to fill that role. Grossman is likely to sign a one-year deal worth a few million dollars. Hicks is available to every club at the league minimum salary after being released by the Yankees, so his camp will sort through a number of offers at the same price in search of the ideal team fit.
TJ Friedl doesn’t receive the same amount of attention as his younger teammates, but he played at an All-Star level (.279/.352/.467 with 18 homers) in center field this year. He’s an excellent contact hitter with plus speed and solid defense. Friedl is somewhat quietly a very valuable player, one whom Bell can comfortably plug into a top-two spot in the lineup as a table-setter.
At age 28 and under club control for five more seasons, Friedl is unlikely to be an extension candidate. The Reds could have interest in trying to get a deal done with one or more of their early-mid 20s hitters. Steer is under control for five seasons. De La Cruz, McLain, Marte and Encarnacion-Strand are all controllable for six more years. Extensions for players with less than one year of MLB service are rare but not unheard of.
Ronald Acuña, Wander Franco and Corbin Carroll all signed nine-figure pacts before their first full year in the big leagues. Eloy Jiménez and Luis Robert signed in the $50MM range before making their MLB debuts. The Reds don’t have anyone who’s yet established at the Acuña, Franco or Carroll level. Those players were all consensus top five prospects who’d found immediate MLB success. Something around Robert’s $50MM could be a reasonable proposal to De La Cruz or Marte if the Reds are interested in buying out two or three free agent seasons. McLain might be a trickier player to value, since he had more initial success than De La Cruz but wasn’t as highly-regarded as a prospect, but he’s also a potential candidate. Willingness to sign an early-career extension varies by player. It’s at least something the front office could consider.
It’s a little less stable on the pitching staff. They signed Hunter Greene to a $50MM guarantee in April. That’s their only contractual commitment outside of option buyouts, leaving open the possibility for more long-term deals. Something in the $50MM range also made sense for southpaw Nick Lodolo preseason. He’s coming off a year derailed by left shin injuries, so the Reds will probably wait on a long-term pact until he’s back on the mound.
24-year-old Andrew Abbott put himself in the conversation alongside Greene and Lodolo as potential rotation cornerstones. The 6’0″ southpaw turned in a 3.87 ERA through his first 21 major league starts, striking out 26.1% of opponents in the process. It’s a little early to consider Abbott an extension candidate — teams tend to wait on starting pitchers until they have a year-plus of service time — but he is clearly in the ’24 rotation and could be the Opening Day starter.
Adding a mid-rotation veteran should be the front office’s main priority. Greene and Lodolo battled injuries and inconsistency. Abbott set a career mark with 163 1/3 innings between the minors and big leagues this summer. Graham Ashcraft eats innings but had an up-and-down season. While Brandon Williamson found his stride nicely in the second half of his rookie campaign, his minor league track record is mixed. Journeyman Ben Lively faded after a nice start. Prospect Connor Phillips has huge stuff and whiff rates but control woes that lead some evaluators to point to a possible bullpen future.
The Reds can’t go into next year counting on each of Abbott, Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft and Williamson to hold a spot all season. They’ll need more depth than they had this year, when they gave Luke Weaver 21 starts and turned to Lively and Luis Cessa a combined 18 times.
Cincinnati has spent less than $15MM in free agency in each of the last two offseasons. There’s no reason for that to continue given the clean payroll outlook. The contracts for Votto and Mike Moustakas are off the books aside from option buyouts. They have just over $16MM in 2024 commitments at present. It’s a solid but hardly overwhelming group of arbitration-eligible players.
The Reds aren’t going to make a play for Blake Snell or NPB ace Yoshinobu Yamamoto. It’s difficult to project them as a candidate to top $100MM on Jordan Montgomery and Aaron Nola given their spending habits. Yet they’ve shown a willingness to go into the middle tier of the free agent market in prior offseasons, guaranteeing $64MM each to Moustakas and Nick Castellanos.
Old friend Sonny Gray will probably stretch beyond that number and cost a draft choice after rejecting a qualifying offer. Eduardo Rodriguez cannot receive the QO and could be available on a four-year pact in the $70-80MM range if he opts out of his deal with the Tigers. Seth Lugo and Michael Wacha are possibilities on a two or three-year deal.
Cincinnati could add a starter in free agency while also looking to the trade market. India could return a back-end type, even if he’s unlikely to get the ball rolling for someone like Dylan Cease or Logan Gilbert. Dealing any of McLain, Steer, Encarnacion-Strand, Marte or De La Cruz ranges from unlikely to ’not happening,’ but they’d all have ample trade appeal. Perhaps the major league infield depth frees them to explore possibilities involving prospects Edwin Arroyo or Cam Collier for controllable rotation help.
They’ll also likely add in the bullpen. Cincinnati has a few solid arms but it’s a roughly average relief group overall. It’s anchored by All-Star closer Alexis Díaz. Deadline pickup Sam Moll is a good ground-ball lefty. Low-cost additions of Alex Young and Ian Gibaut have added middle relief depth. Fernando Cruz, Lucas Sims and Tejay Antone can all miss bats at a high level, although Cruz and Sims have scattershot command and Antone has battled forearm problems. Buck Farmer, who was second on the team with 75 relief innings, is headed to free agency.
Cincinnati won’t be in on Josh Hader, but they have the financial room to play in the lower to middle tiers. Jordan Hicks, Joe Jiménez, old friend Robert Stephenson and Pierce Johnson are all likely to land multi-year deals. Players like Ryne Stanek or Keynan Middleton could be available as one or cheaper two-year fliers.
Given the young talent on the roster and the payroll space, there’s more opportunity for the front office to add than has existed in quite some time. It’s an exciting time for Reds’ fans again. They were ahead of schedule in 2023 and came up a little bit short of the postseason. Next year’s team should have legitimate playoff aspirations from day one. It’s up to the front office to add the pitching necessary to make that happen.
In conjunction with this post, Anthony Franco held a Reds-centric chat on 10-04-23. Click here to view the transcript.
Deleted Userr
“It’s a little early to consider Abbott an extension candidate…”
If they believe in their guy why not now?
YourDreamGM
Let’s wait a little longer so it will cost twice as much to extend him.
runningwithnailclippers
I really foresee the Reds being more inclined to spend then to trade for staff. Looking at the trade deadline this year, they could have traded some guys but didn’t see the value in it. Probably good they didn’t because only a couple stayed healthy or even pitched good after trades (Montgomery was pretty good). I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they go for Montgomery or Gray plus some relievers. The will be way under $100 million on contracts and they probably want to keep those fans coming into the stadium next year. Why would a fan want to if they don’t see some investment by the front office?
This one belongs to the Reds
They have not shown an inclination to do either in this front office. Maybe Meador will do better in that tegard and Krall can stick with what he’s good at with scouting and player development.
Missippi_has_3Ks
If you combine the Teds and the Browns, you not only get the most boring names in sports, but bloody stools.
runningwithnailclippers
Wow.. you are the most amazing troll ever
laynestaley2002
He’s got nothing on the slider with cheese troll.
Missippi_has_3Ks
Original too, might I add. Debut single coming out October 12. Follow me on instagram: Stev_Powers
SalaryCapMyth
@Layne. I prefer the trolls that don’t try like the TraceAcuna Braves fan and MetsFan22 (conspicuously missing these last couple months) Mets fan. They say the stupidest things and don’t realize it. This guy is just trying to get a rise out of people.
Cincyfan85
Sadly, the Reds won’t be extending Matt McLain or Elly De La Cruz because they are both Boras clients. Their best chance for extension would be with Noelvi Marte, Christian Encarnacion-Strand, and/or Spencer Steer.
gbs42
A number of Boras clients have signed extensions. The idea that they never do is completely false.
Cincyfan85
Which early, team-friendly deals has Boras signed?
gbs42
twinsdaily.com/news-rumors/minnesota-twins/alex-ki…
Several listed in this article.
Cincyfan85
That article says Boras has never signed a player with less than 2 years of service time to an extension. He has also been vocally opposed to the kind of extensions the Braves have pulled off with young talent. It is possible McLain signs an extension if he really wanted to stay here, but it would probably happen around arbitration years and cost substantially more. I’m referring more to Braves style extensions, which are risky, but generally team-friendly.
YourDreamGM
Player decides. Agent gives advice. If they are so fragile minded they do whatever agent says or so stupid they turn down a good extension for them then you are better off without them and move on to the next guy. Plenty of players to extend.
Big whiffa
And why would McLain or de la Cruz sign a team friendly ? Especially after they see that votto deal come off the books. Those dudes should rightfully be lookin to get paid
YourDreamGM
If I had Cruz bb k and ground ball numbers and a team was willing to pay me on my potential I would be very interested in listening. McClain with not as bad numbers but almost 400 babip and much lesser exit velo than Cruz should listen as well.
This one belongs to the Reds
I hope McLain tells Boras to stuff it and does what he wants. De La Cruz, he’ll look to go to the bright lights, you can put money on it.
DonOsbourne
That might make this the perfect time to trade De La Cruz. He created a lot of buzz. He kind of represents the new breed of uber athletic big guys. There are a lot of teams who would like to join the cool kids club by getting a player like him. Someone could probably be persuaded into an overpay.
YourDreamGM
I don’t think Reds fans would take the news of a Cruz trade well. They probably love him and think he is going to be a MVP or at least yearly all star. Another team would have to be confident he will improve or that they could improve him.
DonOsbourne
It’s a high risk move for everyone involved. But there is also risk in holding on to everyone and not being able to offer consistent roles for players to grow into. The Cardinals have made this mistake. The Reds should be careful to avoid it.
This one belongs to the Reds
That is one hope I have next season, that all the young guys have a constant position in the lineup and on the field and not so much chaotic and constant changes.
YourDreamGM
I would ask why is a team that depends on young cheap talent trading away young cheap talent. Doesn’t make sense to trade Cruz unless he stinks or is a hole.
DonOsbourne
Because you have to give up something to get something. It makes sense to trade from a position of strength to improve a position of weakness. Also, as I mentioned earlier, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
YourDreamGM
If Cruz isn’t good enough to be a everyday player you won’t get much for him. His marketability would be more valuable than his trade return. Fans won’t give up on his potential for 2 or 3 more years. I am all for trading anyone but he’s either good enough you want him or I have my doubts other teams will over value him and not see the flaws the Reds would see.
Big whiffa
So eury perez for de la Cruz is what u are proposing ? I think both sides would have a lot of interest in that trade ! I don’t see it happening though. Too much bad publicity and bad vibes on both sides trading such a young, dominant player.
And there’s no risk w de la Cruz. He will be an absolute beast as he comes into his own.
Coys Bacon
Sure let’s listen to the Cardinals fan talk about trading a 21 year old rookie with this much controllable years just because you can’t have too much talent.
Just because the Cards were willing to trade off some very good players while being able to spend more on payroll does not mean the Reds should do that. They have enough to sign at least 1 FA starter who can give you dependable innings. Relievers are available and you don’t always need to overspend. The Yankees don’t even do that. They get scrap heaps to help build their bullpen.
The Reds have another SS in Arroyo who they can trade. They don’t need to trade anyone this year and they sure are not going to trade off someone with his potential.
He is at worst the 3B. Marte at SS. Matt at 2B.
Steer and Encarnacion share 1B and DH. India is either going to be traded or used to rotate at 2B. DH. Maybe even LF at this point.
Cincyfan85
I think the Reds will be an appealing option for a free agent. They have a whole slew of Top 100 prospect players on the team. They have a decent contending window with those players alone. The payroll is bogged down by a bunch of bad contracts. This is a team that has topped out around $126.6m in opening day payroll (2019). That’s not a ton relative to big market teams, but that’s decent for a small market team. This team has as good a chance as any in the National League to compete for the next 5 seasons.
CharleyHustle
Just curious but what bad contracts do they have?
Cincyfan85
I meant to say ISN’T bogged down. Sorry.
YourDreamGM
Whatever team where they can make the most $ is the most appealing option. If the $ isn’t significantly different then location and winning will factor in. Top 100 prospects won’t be a factor. Other teams will spend 200 300 million and try to contend every year of they have 0 or 10 top 100 prospects.
BrianStrowman9
@GM
& how did that payroll workout for the Yanks, Padres, and Mets? Money doesn’t equal success. Young talent is WINNING games. Free agents are not.
Texas is the only playoff team that was significantly built through vet acquisitions and free agency.
BrianStrowman9
Phillies as well. But definitely not a sustainable model. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Rangers miss the playoffs entirely in 2024. I’d be very surprised if they made it in 2025.
YourDreamGM
You can win by spending $. Most teams are ran by stupid people. Degrom getting hurt. Who seen that coming? Ellsberry. Who would have predicted a 30 something guy would lose speed and couldn’t steal bases, play cf or stay healthy! Xander got paid for his Fenway stats! Baez lol. Bryant lol.
Philly Harper 330 no opt out. SD? They paid Machado twice lol. Philly had a big empty stadium and they filled out. Did well with free agents. Not sustainable because a bad injury year you need a farm.
ATL HOU LA laid out the blueprints on how to do it. No idea why these other teams don’t follow it. As a fan of any non mega or large market team one should hope they don’t catch on.
Paleobros
India to the Pirates for Keller or is that insane?
Cincyfan85
The Pirates aren’t going to do that. I don’t think the Pirates would even be interested in India. They have a top 2B prospect, Termarr Johnson, on the way, not to mention several young middle infielders who it’s probably too soon to give up on completely.
YourDreamGM
India isn’t anything special. Not coming close to headlining a Keller trade. Pirates have 3 or 4 options at 2b just as good.
MrRed55
I’d sign Sonny Gray, who enjoyed his time here, and has a relationship history with Johnson, the Reds pitching coach. I also think they need to try and go after Hader!! Need another lights out closer to go when Diaz can’t. Kinda like the Nasty boys 2.0! Time for the front office to get the veteran help they need, NOW!
Cincyfan85
Hader will cost too much for the Reds. He’s probably going to get 5 yrs/$100m. Can they afford that? Sure, but they’d be better off trying to give that money to Jordan Montgomery, for example.
YourDreamGM
Pay elite closer $ for a setup man would be a awful move. And whatever awful contract another team gives him the Reds would have to pay tens of millions more. Would you rather be closing out games for a mega market team or being a setup guy for a fly over city?
BrianStrowman9
The reds are a good young team. I really reject the notion that they have to overpay to attract guys to come.
YourDreamGM
15 other good young teams. Cincinnati is far from west coast and Caribbean. Not close to I95. Extend your stars and hope the Cubs Cards aren’t interested in your free agent targets. Most top free agents stars to the coast.
Big whiffa
Lodolo is hader 2.0
Degaz
Ashcraft should have been extended before Greene. Greene was wildly inconsistent this year and last and even when he was good he was extremely pitch inefficient.
Cincyfan85
Ashcraft was pretty inconsistent early also. Hunter Greene is the pitching version of Elly De La Cruz – he will be the best if he can pit it together. No one looks more like an Ace on the team than Hunter Greene when he’s on. He’s the best strikeout pitcher on the team. They extended the right guy.
This one belongs to the Reds
I hope both Greene and Elly work on their game this offseason. Elly needs to get rid of the long swing. When he connects more often…have mercy. Same for Greene being more pitch efficent. If he came up with a Luis Castillo type change up, he would be unstoppable.
Degaz
Wrong. and That’s just false. Ashcraft had a mid season dip not early on but since then he has been incredibly consistent. He was top 15 in the NL is QS with 15. How many QS did Greene have? 2
Comparing him to Elly should tell you something…all hype and no result.
YourDreamGM
Doesn’t matter. Until the Reds have 120 130 million payroll locked in for 2024 2025 2026 2027 they can extend as many guys as they want.
WVBlackBears
Give everyone another year, then I’d like to see them sign 4-5 maybe 6 of the core to 6-7 year extensions like the Braves did last year…I know, lots of cash for the Reds but lock em up.
TMQ
The Braves got insanely lucky with their players accepting those contracts. Ozzie Albie’s might have one of the worst contracts in MLB from a players perspective
HalosHeavenJJ
Watching the Reds was a blast for most of this summer. I really enjoyed the style of play and seeing the fans having fun.
Nice young core. Will be interesting to see how they build around it.
raulp
The Reds lost, via trade, FA or even DFA so many arms in the last few years that is hard to envision how they’ll rebuilt a solid rotation again. Krall & Co. are gonna have to be very creative to do so.
Cincyfan85
They have some pretty good young pitchers right now with more on the way. All they need to do is sign a decent pitcher (or two) in free agency and they’d be doing way better. They have Hunter Greene, Andrew Abbott, Nick Lodolo, Graham Ashcraft, Brandon Williamson, and Connor Phillips with Chase Petty and Rhett Lowder not far behind. That’s not devoid of potential. They just need a couple solid veterans to take some pressure (and innings) off them so they can develop.
hiflew
Senzel is my pick for a breakout in 2024 IF he goes to a team where he will have a secure spot in the infield. I think the Cincy situation was just ruined by them trying to make him an outfielder. This season he looked pretty good until the Reds just had a bunch of young guys get hot all at once and just pushed Senzel aside.
Oakland (2B or 3B) would be a really good landing spot for him. The White Sox (2B) wouldn’t be bad either. The Angels could also be a nice spot for him depending on how their offseason goes.
Cincyfan85
He makes a lot of sense at 3B for the Tigers or Nationals also.
hiflew
Nats make sense. He could be next year’s Candelario for them.
BrianStrowman9
I don’t know how much longer you can hold onto Senzel being a top 2 pick. He hasn’t hit since early on in the minor leagues.
Some top picks just bust.
diehardfantd
With the payroll open for additions starting pitching help and bullpen help should be top priorities for the Reds . Senzel would likely benefit from a change in teams and has worn out his welcome. A veteran out field bat would help if they move on from Fraley. Should be an exciting year in 2024
Big whiffa
Finish that deal w white sox for – cease for India +. Reds need to find some inning eating pitchers and lock up their young players long term with expandable payroll.
Let the log jam work itself out w best talent rising to the top.
1. CES
2. Marte
3. De La Cruz
S McLain
L Fraley
C Friedl
R Benson
D Steer
C Stephenson
Rotation
Greene
Cease
Ashcraft
Abbott
Williamson
Pen
Lodolo
Cessa
Reds don’t need much ! Big red machine is back !
YourDreamGM
Why would sox want a 700 something ops dh 2b for Cease?
This one belongs to the Reds
Because of intangibles. I am a bit concerned about how trading India will affect the young team’s chemistry, if I were being honest. He and Friedl are the main cogs in the new machine.
It’s not all about stats in real life.
Coys Bacon
Intangibles that don’t hit barely at league average and have negative fielding value are overrated. India is not some good luck charm. The Reds can keep him but he’s not a FT starter at this point. It’s also not hard to ask him to see if he would try LF. The leadership this team needs is to get healthier starters throwing and building up innings.
This one belongs to the Reds
They needed to get leadership in the starting rotation LAST offseason for the young starters but were either unable or unwilling to do so. Now other than maybe Ashcraft, who seems to have figured it out, they have a year experience but still learning on the job rather than having a veteran to help them like Arroyo did with the last group. Greene especially seems to need that.
The point is that India, Stephenson and Friedl serve that function for the position players and you see the difference.
Not everything is about stats. This is real life with real human beings, not rotisserie league.
Coys Bacon
Rotisserie baseball? Is it 1980? I know it’s not 100 percent about stats. It’s pretty close though to being about production. TJ is also very productive. If it’s just injuries for the second year in a row that cause India to fall of a cliff then ok. He’s still not going to start over the other 3 Infielders. You overrate his leadership.
Stephenson? The guy is a below average catcher. Can’t frame pitches very well. He’s one of the worst at it. Now he’s regressed hitting. Badly. So many unproductive at bats.
There are other leaders on the team. Fraley. Matt M is another one that doesn’t play or act like a rookie.
They will survive if they get rid of India. Or Stephenson especially. That position needs an upgrade.
This one belongs to the Reds
There are about 20 teams in baseball who if asked if they would take 56 RBIs out of the catching position, would take it hands down. Even if you thonk that’s not enough, you don’t get rid of a guy after one bad offensive year when you have no one else ready in the system.
Pitch framing is overrated. A good umpire sees past that. Now blocking pitches and such, totally agree. He never was a technician behind the plate, even though he seems to work well with pitchers.
People tend to forget that the up the middle positions are traditonally not offensive positions, but the exceptions over the years creates unrealistic expectations.
Whether its fantasy baseball, The Show or whatever it is these days, it’s still rotisserie baseball by another name.
Big whiffa
@ tobttr,
reds have their veteran leader on the pitching staff. His name is hunter greene, he turned a corner after coming back from injury, has been praised for his maturity his whole career and he’s a phenom talent coming into his age 24 season.
Idk how u can justify Stevensons season !? It was a total disappointment considering how healthy he finally was and all the talent around him. He will get another chance, but by default. He didn’t earn it.
And friedl ?!? If this season was an anomaly and he disappeared and ended the year in AAA next year – would that really surprise you ? He’s 27, and put up his best season as a pro – in the majors.
Coys right. McLain and Fraley are leaders. And go ahead and throw Elly in by default w Hunter on the frontline.
Johhn
100% agree
This is my early 2024 lineup
CF TJ
2b McLain
LF Steer
SS Elly
1b CES
RF Benson
3B Marte
DH Fraley/Votto/Martnini/India/Dunn/Fairchild
.C Ty steve/Maile
I keep hearing that we need Cal from the mariners.. Personnaly Stephonson is an averagish offensive catcher and I think he will be better this year.
India doesn’t fit the mold. It isn’t rocket science. If he plays it will be 1/3 days and the guy is a “starter.
Personnaly I put fraley down in the order because I think it would be a good idea to package something like…
Fraley, India, Senzel in exchange for prospects. Give us farm insurance in the area of arms or OF.
then you got regular playing time for guys.
INF Steer (UT mainly LF), marte, elly, mclain, CES
OF benson, steer, TJ, (Fairchild, Dunn, F/A, Jacob)
All the F/A priority is just
Maile
2-3 arms such as Chapman, Hader (not likely), maybe Hicks a better option
Then sign a veteran SP (yes I know we got 6-7 guys capable but I think a veteran would be good to start.
Maybe Montgomery or Gray reunion.
Prospectnvstr
Big whiffa/ YourDreamGM: imo both of you have good points. If the Reds FO really thinks that they’re real contenders offer India AND Chase Petty & a lottery ticket for Cease. Petty could be a coup for the Sox. It could be similar to the Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz deal ions ago, where Doyle helped propel the tigers in the postseason while the Braves reaped the long term benefits.
acoss13
As a White Sox fan, what is Jonathan India and plus mean? Gonna have to sweeten the pot for that to work.
YourDreamGM
Should be top 100 prospect plus India.
Big whiffa
@prospect, I’m pretty sure reds could have took that deal at the deadline if they wanted cease that bad. Doubt petty or Phillips will be dealt under any circumstances as both profile as rotation pieces already and 6 years of one of them is more value alone than rest of cease contract. Especially when you consider the window of this team being so large w all this young talent.
Big whiffa
It just depends on what white sox are wanting to do. Let’s say compete though right away. Rece Hinds and Lyon Richardson both had breakout seasons and both will be mlb ready at some point next season. That’s a decent haul for cease coming off a down year.
Or if competing next season isn’t as important- reds have the prospects to over pay in a deal for a player they like. Arroyo and India is more than enough for cease.
BrianStrowman9
I think it’s criminal to put lodolo in the pen right now. You have to give him a shot to iron it out in the rotation. There’s too much upside there. If he flops in 2024 then try to recreate Josh hader.
Big whiffa
I hear ya brian ! Right now they got 4 spots locked up as Abbott and Williamson earned theres on the field this year. That leaves 1 spot available. I’m cool with them using lodolo as his ceiling is sky high. and then wavier players when someone goes down but some folks here would throw a fit if reds did that lol.
This one belongs to the Reds
They forgot to mention Ken Griffey Jr’s almost three million deferred salary. I believe 2024 is the last year for that.
Bobcastelliniscat
I would be surprised if the Reds significantly increase payroll. They may add a low level free agent at the end of Spring Training, but they won’t spend enough to make a difference.
I fully expect the Reds, to once again, be in the bottom five in terms of team payroll in 2024.
YourDreamGM
They have so much young talent and with a weak free agent class there is no reason for them to spend much $. With baseball economics they could only spend 130 140 million even if they wanted to overpay and get stuck with awful free agent contracts.
This one belongs to the Reds
Dream, 130ish is the most they ever spent, and would be a 50 million increase from last year. So an ace and a heck of a bullpen before Diaz can be had for that scratch.
Like Cat, I’ll be shocked if they go over 100.
YourDreamGM
Yeah that’s why I said 130. Comps like Milwaukee KC Cleveland never spent much more than that either. Pittsburgh never went past 100. With people dumping cable and no other comp going over, 130 seems like the reasonable max amount.