11:25 AM: According to a report from Jeff Passan of ESPN, the Marlins planned to hire a president of baseball operations this offseason. The new president would have worked above Kim Ng as the team’s top baseball executive. It was this plan of action that led Ng to turn down her side of her mutual option with the Marlins for 2024.
9:05 AM: The Marlins and general manager Kim Ng have parted ways, reports Craig Mish of the Miami Herald. It was reported about a month ago that her contract was set to expire after 2023 and it seems that a new deal will not be worked out to keep the relationship going. The club’s chairman Bruce Sherman released a statement on the matter, as relayed by Jordan McPherson of the Herald. It seems the two sides had a mutual option for 2024, with the club exercising their end but Ng rejecting hers.
“We thank Kim for her contributions during her time with our organization and wish her and her family well,” the statement reads. “We will immediately begin a thorough and extensive search for new leadership as we plan to continue to invest in the Marlins organization both on and off the field. We are committed to our fans and the South Florida community and look to build off the momentum of the great progress of this year.” Barry Jackson of the Herald relays that director of player development Brian Chattin will serve as interim general manager during that search.
The departing GM provided a statement to Tyler Kepner of The Athletic: “Last week, Bruce (Sherman) and I discussed his plan to reshape the Baseball Operations department. In our discussions, it became apparent that we were not completely aligned on what that should look like and I felt it best to step away. I wish to express my sincere gratitude and appreciation to the Marlins family and its fans for my time in South Florida. This year was a great step forward for the organization, and I will miss working with Skip and his coaches as well as all of the dedicated staff in baseball operations and throughout the front office. They are a very talented group and I wish them great success in the future.”
Ng, now 54, was hired to be the general manager of the Marlins in November of 2020, which was trailblazing on multiple fronts. Ng was the first woman to be a general manager for a men’s team in any of the four major North American sports and the first Asian-American GM in the history of Major League Baseball.
Since that time, the fortunes of the club have been gradually trending upwards. Though they made the expanded playoffs in the shortened 2020 season, the two full seasons prior to that saw them win 63 games in 2018 and then just 57 in 2019. The two seasons after Ng’s hiring saw them win 67 games in 2021 and then 69 contests last year. Here in 2023, they hired Skip Schumaker to take over as manager and were able to get all the way up to 84 victories, a strong enough season that they were able to make the playoffs in a full season for the first time since 2003.
The club has had an admirable supply of starting pitching during recent years, with their rotation featuring the likes of Sandy Alcantara, Pablo López, Trevor Rogers and Eury Pérez at various times. Those pitchers were all acquired prior to Ng joining the club, but she added to that group by acquiring Jesús Luzardo from the A’s in 2021, sending impending free agent Starling Marte the other way. The surplus of starting pitching was then used to upgrade the lineup, with López traded to the Twins in exchange for Luis Arraez, who flirted with .400 for much of 2023 campaign. At this year’s deadline, the club added some more offense by acquiring Josh Bell and Jake Burger, both of whom finished strong as part of Miami’s playoff push.
Every baseball decision maker has their misses and that’s certainly true of Ng. The Avisaíl García deal looks like a big misstep at the moment and the Jacob Stallings deal hasn’t worked out so far. But on the whole, the results have been positive with Ng at the helm. They just had their best season in quite some time and did so with very little margin for error, financially speaking. Per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, the player payroll has been one of the lowest in the league, with their Opening Day outlay coming in 28th, 26th and then 23rd in her three seasons.
The club clearly felt things were going well, since they triggered their end of the mutual option. It’s possible the two sides discussed an extension, but there hasn’t been much public information about that. It’s perhaps worth noting that there have been some changes in the suit-and-tie levels of the Marlins organization in recent years. The club was purchased by a group led by Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter in late 2017. Jeter served as the club’s CEO until early 2022, departing at that time while stating that “the vision for the future of the franchise is different than the one I signed up to lead.” It was reported after that announcement that a change in spending plans is what caused Jeter to walk away, though others also suggested the relationship between Sherman and Jeter soured for reasons beyond just the financials.
In her statement, Ng also spoke of not being aligned with Sherman in their discussions, much like Jeter. The exact nature of their disagreement isn’t known, but the result is that she won’t be back with the club and will now be free to pursue other opportunities.
It’s unknown if she wants to immediately jump into another job, but there are some current openings. The Red Sox fired Chaim Bloom and have been looking to hire a general manager in recent weeks. Billy Eppler walked away from the general manager position of the Mets recently, though that would be a different situation with David Stearns hired to be that club’s president of baseball operations. The job with the Mets would have far more financial freedom than Ng had in Miami but it’s unclear if she would want to be second-in-command after a successful run as a club’s top baseball decision maker. It’s possible that more gigs will open up if any other clubs decide to part ways with their front office people.
Her plans will surely become more clear in the weeks to come but it’s fair to expect that she will draw interest. The Marlins, meanwhile, will look for a new head of their baseball operations department. Whoever steps into that role will seemingly have to align their vision with Sherman’s and likely work with a limited budget, but there would certainly be some appeal in taking over a club that is just coming off a postseason appearance and in decent shape to compete again next year.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
deepseamonster32
This is a franchise with a long tradition of losing. Making the playoffs is simply unacceptable.
cheapseater
They have more World Series championships than the Rangers, Brewers, Mariners, Rays, Padres, and Rockies.
Hemlock
There’s always one who doesn’t get it, right cheapseater?
abc123baseball
Also the Nats/Expos, Diamondbacks, and Angels. I mean…might as well list them all.
MarlinsFanBase
I’ll keep it simple.
The Marlins are tied with the Astros, Mets, Blue Jays and Royals for the most World Series championships by an expansion team – and have done so in far less years than these other franchises.
And they have more or are equal to some historical teams.
aragon
Ancient times!
VegasSDfan
I would take the Marlines history vs the Padres any day of the week
judgementday99
None of it gained with the current ownership group…with a massive sell off after each championship.
Steinbrenner should make Ng President of Ops over Cashman.
Moonlight Graham
The Marlins are 400 games under .500 all-time, and they’ve never won a division title.
Sure, they’ve had two big WS wins. Can’t take that away from them. But they’re not exactly perennial contenders.
stymeedone
The past is the past.
'Tang It
The issue with the Marlins has been cheap ownership and inconsistency. I think up until 2020 they hadn’t made the playoffs aside from their 2 world series wins. Also, every time they are successful they get dismantled. At least Loria is gone.
'Tang It
Judgmentday- that would require actual thought and foresight. I think cashman and Boone will be employed until they die.
Samuel
It’s not cheap ownership kid.
I’s that the fans don’t support the team. Which most baseball followers knew that would happen when expansion franchises were given to Miami and Tampa Bay.
Chris from NJ
They also achieved those things in a time of free agency which the Mets, Astros, and Royals didn’t have. And the Jays were at the dawn of free agency. That 97 team was hired guns. If they had to build just from the expansion draft and the farm it would have took a lot more time. The Mets won in 69 without a single free agent because there weren’t any!! All I’m saying is from a historical perspective it’s not really fair to compare.
Bozzmania
But have never won a division and all those others have
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
The fans don’t support the team because the last two times the team was actually successful (20 years ago!), they immediately dumped the roster to cut costs. As a fan, why would you support a team that trades all of your favorite players?
Samuel
Jarred Kelenic’s Beer Can;
LOL
The ’97 team was put together during the season by Dave Dombrowski at the behest of the owner (Wayne Huizenga). The owner wanted to spur the area to vote for a new park. The park was voted down. Then they dumped the players because the fans still didn’t buy tickets.
Years later the Marlins got their new park. They’ve finished in the bottom 3 of MLB attendance every year since.
It’s just not an area for MLB. A poster from Miami explained why. Too many reason to type. The Marlines could move from Miami this offseason, and few in the south Florida area would miss them.
rockofloveusa
when you have more then two wild cards . bringing up division title is point less .
and you late to the game…
then Rangers, Brewers, Mariners, Padres, and Angels. been at it lot longer spending more and giving same change . say a lot .
rockofloveusa
i weather have Loria over new owner,
would not sign Avisaíl García contract with a club option for $12 million (with a 45 million buyout).
and destroy the parts of the stadium and colors. . the current logo suck.
plus the city jersey br about miami . not cuba minor league
rockofloveusa
marlins lost fan cause of clevender gone also
rockofloveusa
i thing your wrong plus cant move till 2045 if did .
you forget marlin in top 7 in tv rating and item sold from 1993 till 2000
MarlinsFanBase
I see the fake Marlins fan @rockofloveusa is back stating his information that true Marlins fans that live in Miami and attend the game can see that he’s not really a Marlins fan or even lives anywhere near South Florida.
But carry on having conversation with the others who know nothing about the Marlins and area.
rockofloveusa
see the fake Marlins fan lol .
your name say it all you the only fanbase lol
true marlins fans would not care where any live. . after lora left attendance got worst down two 15,000 per game.. at lest i don’t sound like a new Yorker who move to Miami. then said he love marlins. but wears Mets ,,Yankees and cuba stuff cloths two the game.. , you can keep fake out your mouth . cause you don’t know the meaning of it. i bet you say jeter best GM in mlb history also when he fail at the end of it all..
MarlinsFanBase
Still fighting the good fight to claim Loria (not “Lora”) was a good owner. Yeah, there is no Marlins fan that like anything about Loria’s ownership. You can’t even troll our fan base correctly. At least know something about the team.
Zerbs63
And the Astros
Mrivers
But other than the 2 outlier seasons have been perennial losers.
And those were 20 years and more.
That was an accurate representation.
Sorry.
920kodiak
As well as the Expos/Nationals. Same amount as the Mets and Phillies.
smrtbusnisman04a
But they still have only 4 postseason appearances in their 31 year history. And she was responsible for one of those and possibly more to come
rememberthecoop
Read the article again. The Marlins wanted her back – she decided not to sign the mutual option.
Lets Go DBacks
When he reacted the article didn’t state that detail, only that they had parted ways, so he probably assumed the club didn’t want to continue with her.
Lonniemac
My guess is she probably didn’t want to be working on a 1-year deal. She should have many good job options available to her.
rondon
I don’t blame her for leaving. She got them to the playoffs without an “executive“ hovering over her every move.
Hurricane Sandy
He made a funny comment, that’s all that matters. Quit splitting hairs.
MarlinsFanBase
Well, most inaccurate statements are funny comments. He didn’t reinvent the wheel in using the whole getting his facts wrong with premature assumptions bit to get a laugh. My guess is that he didn’t really intend it to be funny, but more a shot. But it turned out to be funny when he got yolk all over his face.
Hurricane Sandy
lol. You guys are WAAAYY over the top with this reaction. Learn to laugh a little bit. I’m a Mets fan and I know you (MarlinsFanBase) are constantly “lol Mets”-ing and general Mets-bashing on other threads. If I were to respond to those posts by listing past championships that would be kind of silly and pathetic, no? If someone gets in a witty Mets jab, I chuckle. Just take a joke, I’m pretty sure that’s all he was trying to do.
MarlinsFanBase
Actually, I don’t really participate in those LOLMets things. I read them, but not really get into them because they’re like saying the sun will rise tomorrow. But I do get in my trash-talk toward the Mets.
And I do enjoy a good Marlins joke. Some of the things we’ve done over the years (especially the Mike Hill years) have certainly warranted humor. But I also know when someone has a failed attempt at taking a shot, so I’m going to ridicule any person that does that. But I’m also the same type of guy that will laugh at a comedian that is bombing on stage, or the person that will mock a political “journalist” talking head that lives a life that shows that he/she does not believe the BS that he/she spews on the air.
Is it wrong to ridicule or call out a person that failed in an intended shot?
Hurricane Sandy
No I suppose not Mr. MarlinsFanBase. I will move on.
JoeBrady
Is it wrong to ridicule or call out a person that failed in an intended shot?
=========================
I am sympathetic when commoners make mistakes. When folks that get paid millions, that’s part of the job description.
rct
@MarlinsFanBase: “Actually, I don’t really participate in those LOLMets things.”
lmao this is the most absurd thing I’ve ever seen on MLBTR. You have been posting hating, trolling garbage on literally every single Mets post on MLBTR for a *decade*. You are quite possibly the biggest LOLMets poster on the entire internet. Jesus.
tangerinepony
That’s probably the dumbest take or comment I’ve read in quite awhile. Congrats. I guess the WS championships in 1997 and 2003 don’t mean anything huh
rockofloveusa
they do mean something to me i remember where i was . and never forget ..
rocky7
Hal, get in touch with Kim immediately and make her asst GM to Cashman with the promise she takes over next year…….
YankeesBleacherCreature
Better yet promote Cashman to PoBO and give her the vacancy. We all know Hal can’t quit Cash.
Buzz Killington
I’d bet she gets a job with the Angels or Red Sox.
judgementday99
I’d make Cashman report to her
Monkey’s Uncle
Well, it’s not as if they’re doing better now than they were when she arrived… wait…
MarlinsFanBase
Hmmm…made the playoff in 2020 and advanced past the first round the year before she arrived. Didn’t make the playoffs her first two seasons, made the playoffs and didn’t win a game in her last year with the team.
While I won’t bash her after she had a good trade deadline, the statement you made doesn’t fit well.
baseballpun
2020 doesn’t count.
Looking at you too, Dodgers fans.
MarlinsFanBase
2020 doesn’t count…says fans of every fan of a team that didn’t have a season they’re proud of.
MarlinsFanBase
typo.
2020 doesn’t count…says fans of every team that didn’t have a season they’re proud of.
baseballpun
60 games isn’t a season
deepseamonster32
Ok, but some teams are going to overachieve in 60 game stretches. The Pirates, Mets and Angels were top 8 in their league at 60 games this year.
I give the Dodgers credit, because they had proved it before and after 2020. We know what the Marlins proved before and after 2020. Doesn’t make it less fun, but it is more indicative of the talent on hand.
just_breathe
Welcome to boston?
30 Parks
My first thought, too, Breathe.
I.M. Insane
She ain’t taking Boston. She’ll demand the moon and stars and Henry wants someone he can control.
padrepapi
Yeah I’m sure having a good 100m/yr more in additional resources would be a hard sell.
stymeedone
But that extra 100MM is already spent on bad contracts. Not much of an enticement.
redsoxu571
You have no idea about that “control” part. This is the same guy who headed the pursuit of Billy Beane, which only didn’t work out because Beane decided to stick where he was. Beane certainly was no guy to be controlled. I get any potential hire being highly dubious about ownership’s commitment to whomever they bring in, but that appears to be the issue more than anything else.
smrtbusnisman04a
I’m not sure what Henry wants. If he was obsessed with winning, why not keep Dombrowski? DD spends like a Democrat yet they won the 2018 World Series.
JoeBrady
1-84 wins
2-Highest payroll
3-Worst farm.
I thought DD deserved another year, but it would not be incorrect for Henry to think he needed someone to cut payroll and fix the farm. It likely wasn’t sustainable.
User 3180623956
“spends like a Democrat” LMMFAO In recent history,Republicans have put this country in a bigger financial hole than Democrats. There may have been a time when your statement was true but that was a long time ago. Both sides spend, spend, spend just in different places.
As far as DD goes, he knew where to spend and who to keep. They had a very good shot of going deep into the postseason for at least 5-7 years if he was allowed to continue his work.
JoeBrady
Actually, the democrats spend money they don’t have, and the republicans spend money on things they don’t want the taxpayers to pay for, Same coin; different sides.
robw5555
Dobrowski spends like crazy. So the Red Sox want to make money, not just sign 300 million-dollar guys.
Samuel
robw5555;
Good point!
Look at how the Phillies are losing money hand-over-fist and how terrible their farm system is. They haven’t called up a rookie in maybe a month.
case
Lol, did they earn the money from their paper routes and then generously gift it to the taxpayer?
VonPurpleHayes
Lol. Good call, Samuel.
Blue Baron
@JoeBrady: People have short memories. The budget deficit grew when Trump was president.
He should have said “spend like a Republican.”
JoeBrady
It grows under both sides. The Left refuses to cut benefits. The Right refuses to raise taxes. Both sides, along with their voters, are quite happy to run up trillion $$$ deficits for our kids to deal with.
JackStrawb
It’s amusing, always, to see the “major party x is worse than major party y!!”
Not knowing that both parties are disastrous for both the U.S. and the world is both ignorance and utter folly.
Shame on any adult not aware of this.
JackStrawb
@JoeBrady Then there’s the problem of anyone believing there’s a “Left” in Congress or the White House.
Based on voting records not only isn’t there a left, there isn’t a center. There probably isn’t even one rep with a center-right record.
You can have one of these:
1) the far right party on all matters of economic and foreign policy, but with a leavening of center-left stances on some social policies that don’t cost the oligarchy anything.
2) the far right party on all matters of economic and foreign policy, but with a leavening of conservative stances on issues that don’t cost the oligarchy anything.
That’s your democracy (TM), folks.
Blue Baron
She’s from Fresh Meadows in Queens. There are rumblings around here of her joining Stearns with the Mets.
VonPurpleHayes
Would absolutely be a great move.
oscar gamble
Wow! I’m surprised at this.
99socalfrc
Given the results not retaining her seems really, really dumb.
But it’s the Marlins, so I’m not really surprised.
rememberthecoop
Again, it states that ownership agreed to bring her back – SHE was the one who refused to sign off on the mutual option.
Monkey’s Uncle
It states that now, but the initial post did not contain that info when many of us posted.
saluelthpops
But of course, most jumped to a conclusion that fit their agenda, before waiting on facts.
Lets Go DBacks
Again, the first version of this article only mentioned that they had parted ways and not any additional details like the option.
MarlinsFanBase
@rememberthe scoop
What we’re seeing with multiple posters getting their statements stupidly wrong is either they can’t read much, have ADHD and can’t get past the title, or just find the Marlins a target because of those usual E!SPN and FOX Sports narratives that come from personalities that hate all Miami teams.
I think it’s a bit of all combined into one.
Sherman and the Marlins did the right thing. Ng chose to do what she felt was best for her. I personally am fine with a GM change. As for Ng, I think she should go into a bigger role for the game by going the the MLB League Office and become an ambassador for the game.
Blue Baron
@MarlinsFanBase: She might not be interested in such a role.
She grew up in Queens and could join David Stearns at Citi Field.
99socalfrc
Article changed multiple times, but no matter, in the end we found out they wanted to hire someone for her to report to. So all the early posts about the Marlins were right anyhow. LOL
MarlinsFanBase
@99socalfrc
Can you elaborate? There were so many early posts about the Marlins having opposing thoughts.
MarlinsFanBase
@Blue Baron
Yeah, Ng is leaving the Marlins because she didn’t want to work under someone else in order to go to another team who already has someone in place that she’ll work under. And the best part, she’ll do that to work for someone much younger than her, so she is locking into having a glass ceiling over her within the organization.
You may want to rethink your statement.
Now with this said, if she goes to the Mets and repeats a lot of her hit-or-miss moves, I’d love her going to them. And she should hire Mike Hill as her Assistant GM. They will do a great job together…for the Mets division rivals.
Blue Baron
No need to rethink it. The rumors have already started.
Steve Cohen can pay her more to work with Stearns than the el cheapo Marlins owner would offer to be top person.
MarlinsFanBase
Yeah, rumors made up by delusional Mets fans and click-baiting Mets Beat Writers are certainly filled with validity. No need to use logic once you have that in place.
And last I checked, Ng stepped away from the Marlins specifically because she DID NOT want to work under someone. But feel free to ignore that because it squashes Mets wishful thinking.
And yes, Cohen can pay her a ton of money. She’ll need it because, if she has the same caliber of mess-ups with the Mets that she had with the Marlins, it’ll be her last job after your media and fan base do what you always do when a manager or front office person fails there – bash the person to destroy their credibility.
Sheesh, you Mets fans are special. Even when the ownership isn’t serving the Kool-Aid, you all go make it yourselves. No wonder you all are always angry and embarrassed every year your team fails to live up to the self-anointed hype.
And with an honest opinion for what I think Ng should or shouldn’t do. I’d stay away from the Red Sox and Mets jobs based on the efforts to destroy those reputations when things don’t work out. See Dave Dombrowski and Buck Showalter treatment. If I’m her, I look for a job with the Yankees or perhaps one of the Central division teams in either league. Much more potential career longevity in those jobs than with the Mets or Red Sox. She’s too early in the GM part of her career to take a risk.
Blue Baron
You would stay away from jobs with any and all MLB teams because you’re not qualified and nobody would hire you for them!
MarlinsFanBase
@Blue Baron
Nice red herring. Go enjoy your Kool-Aid.
myaccount2
Elaborate? Surely you’ve read the hundreds of MLBTR posts that have a headline, then one sentence summarizing the move, then state “more to come…”
robw5555
So funny you are. That is not going to happen.
robw5555
The Mets are jinxed. Alonso demands 300-350 million. He told Cohen to pay up. Alonso said he wont be insulted when they backed up the truck for Scherzer a bust, Verlander a bust, Lindor way overpaid. Cohen actually may want to trim some payroll.
Blue Baron
Red herring? That’s a good one after you gave your completely uninformed opinion about jobs with MLB teams.
Blue Baron
@robw5555: Lindor posted a WAR of 6 this year. He is most assuredly not overpaid.
VonPurpleHayes
With the new info, it seems dumb the Marlins wanted someone above her.
Dock_Elvis
She opted out. Marlins exercised their end of the option.
Unclemike1525
This is where reading is a skill though. There was a mutual option. The club exercised theirs. Ng did not. Sherman immediately said we will start a search IMMEDIATELY for a replacement. Meaning- They weren’t even willing to negotiate with her for a longer deal. Meaning- They walked away. It’s on the Marlins. They effectively fired her. They are cheap. I hear Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams are available. They’re not good but they must be cheap because they worked for Reinsdorf.
Big Smoke
Hey Mikey, you literally explained what a mutual option is. Meaning BOTH sides have to exercise their respective options. Talk about someone who can’t read.
Also, just because they didn’t want to retain her for more than a year due to her mediocre track record doesn’t mean they’re cheap. It means they believed one good season doesn’t make up for the other years she’s been bad. Let me guess, you believe she deserved a long term deal based on a small sample size?
robw5555
When they picked her there was pressure form the league office. If you know what I mean. Let the Yankees dump Cashman and hire her if she is that good.
whyhayzee
Well, she’s infinity better than Cash man.
Bill
Your logic is very questionable. Why wou;d they need to sign her to a long term deal when they already had an agreed-upon one year contract that she just had to accept the option for? And why would they want to when they’re looking to bring in a POBO? They did not fire her.
gbs42
They could have given her an extension and/or more money.
rockofloveusa
RIGHT! But you fail to say is she did not want to lose power she had. after Jeter was gone.
when Marlins owner wanted to replace Jeter..
At the end of the day she know what she was, a figure just holding done a job .to make other look good in mlb.
Mlb and Jeter at end of the day just use her. .
you all forget how close Manfred, and Jeter are..
Jeter would not been no where close to the Marlins. if not for Manfred. Jeter had no Idea what Miami market was like.
StudWinfield
Makes sense. She’s got plenty of leverage to get a GM job with a team that’s at least in the top half of league spending.
GRE
Toronto Blue Jays…Have to do the same thing and FIRE ATKINS !!!
MarlinsFanBase
Um, Ng was not fired.
coloredpaper
… read that again, MFB.
And I’m all for this! Won’t happen while Shapiro runs the show though.
MarlinsFanBase
Hmmmm…I’m still seeing the “Have to do the same thing and FIRE ATKINS!!!” part. Does “…do the same thing….” mean something different than what I’m understanding? Doing the same thing and firing someone means that the previous person was fired. Now if he said something along the lines of “…do the same thing and convince Atkins to step away from the job” that would be something where my statement is wrong.
Does “…do the same thing….” mean something different to you?
Mystery13
By not negotiating an extension with her, Sherman essentially fired her
MarlinsFanBase
@Mystery13
Yes, Sherman should have broken into Ng’s home and forced her to accept his proposal and the options. How dare she decide not to come back to pursue her own choices in life!
Mystery13
Nope, he should have negotiated a contract extension with her agent like any negotiation. But judging by your reply, it seems you are too stupid to actually understand how things like this work
MarlinsFanBase
She chose to not return. The Marlins opted in. She opted out. She and her agent did not offer an option to negotiate.
Kid, I know negotiations. When a party chooses not to agree to certain terms, if they want to return, they will make a counteroffer to discuss. Ng’s party did not do that. Not hard to comprehend…for someone that knows how these things work.
She chose to not return. If she wanted to return, when she declined the current terms, her party would have come back with their own terms. Her party didn’t….period. There’s really nothing to discuss after that happens…unless Sherman is going to hire a couple of leg-breakers or a professional stalker to force Ng into negotiating.
And don’t get confused by this last line in my statement. If you are, there is a concept called hyperbole.
Mystery13
Yep, little boy, you just proved you don’t understand contract negotiations even a little bit. Time for a nappy pal
MarlinsFanBase
Listen Junior, then explain how you get someone that doesn’t want to negotiate to negotiate returning?
Ng clearly stated that she and Sherman’s visions don’t align.
I’ll wait to see how you would do different from the Marlins standpoint Boy Wonder. How do you get someone to negotiate that doesn’t want to?
Poolhalljunkies
mystery..cant tell if you are trolling here or actually serious lol…so good one…but she had a contract and she declined the option..that was her negotiating by telling them to shove it ..to dumb it down for you she basically quit. she was not fired
Old York
She’s already got an offer to take over another team.
Hemlock
The Lovely Ladies could use a GM. I don’t think they’ve ever had one? Maybe they will make an offer.
GASoxFan
They should rename the As that in LV to honor the showgirls and s*x workers
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Did you ever get to The Big O?
Haha … I mean the stadium, in Montreal where the Expos played.
The cheerleaders there were The Molson Girls, and let me tell you it was EXACTLY like watching showgirls. When they danced to “Take Me Out To The Ballgame” it was like a stri*tease.
Between that, Youppi, and the huge beers, it was actually a pretty cool place to take in a game. All that distracted from the ugliness of the stadium itself.
And it wasn’t that far from Boston, less than 5 hours.
jdgoat
Making the playoffs isn’t allowed in Miami. You get sent to the curb if you do.
Old York
@jdgoat
Given that the commissioner turned the playoffs into a circus, where at one time, 51% of the time, the top seed advanced and now it’s down to 37%, it doesn’t matter who performs well or not. All that really matters now is if you win your division. Beyond that, a short series means nothing at all. She didn’t win her division so it’s time to part ways.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Well this didn’t age well like a lot of comments on here.
MarlinsFanBase
@NoSubscriptions4Lyfe
I blame E!SPN and FOX Sports for catering to the unaware fans by misinforming them based on what they feel will sell more ads and get them ratings instead of what’s accurate.
If the Marlins want positive comments, I think they should hire Taylor Swift next. Then they can become 40% of every E!SPN program and discussion…and get complimented and praised for every transaction no matter what.
Old York
@NoSubscriptions4Lyfe
If she didn’t win, what’s the point of continuing on? New opportunities exist elsewhere to win a division so why not?
MarlinsFanBase
@Old York
Good point. In the NL East, the Marlins, Nats, Phillies and Mets know that they’re playing for a Wild Card spot for the next 3 to 5 years.
If Ng goes to one of those teams in either the NL or AL Central divisions, she could have them winning the division in the next year or so…assuming that she doesn’t make any more additions like Avi Garcia, Jean Segura, Johnny Cueto, Anthony Bass, Dylan Floro, Jacob Stallings, Joey Wendle, Adam Cimber, etc. and makes more good moves like Luis Arraez, Jake Burger, Josh Bell, Bryan De La Cruz, etc….and not hold onto players like Garrett Cooper, Jesus Aguilar, etc. longer than she should have.
She does that with teams like say any of the non-playoff contending teams in either Central division, she could have them winning those.
MarlinsFanBase
You seriously need to read the article and learn the facts. You just made an ash of yourself.
Old York
@MarlinsFanBase
I’m not worried about that. Are you?
MarlinsFanBase
Not really, but it feels fun to say when these posters clearly show their deficiencies.
DM_Nats
Welcome to DC
TheFuzzofKing
I’d take her but apparently the Rizzo/Davey package is a selling point in Mark Lerner’s eyes.
Big Smoke
Many people are going to dog on the Marlins for this but her departure was ultimately her choice, not the team’s choice.
Not like she was an amazing GM anyway. Sure it’s a bad look when your GM leaves immediately after your team makes the playoffs in a long time, but recency bias aside her tenure was a very mixed bag.
MarlinsFanBase
Well said. People forget that Ng did not have a foot to stand on until she did a good job at this year’s trade deadline. If Bell and Burger would’ve dogged it in the second half, most likely Ng would’ve been fired because they wouldn’t have made the playoffs.
Big Smoke
Exactly. Most people are going to headline and think “Wow this team made the playoffs and they’re parting ways with their GM? That’s stupid.”
That is until you realize that before this year she was seen as a mediocre GM at best. She made plenty of bad moves in the past, albeit with some good ones. It makes sense the team wanted her back for only one year. Maybe now they’ll hire someone who’ll build the team up for long term success.
MarlinsFanBase
Exactly. Prior to this year’s traded deadline, she was a mixed bag of results – both good and bad moves. She also was highly bashed by many (both fans and local media) for having failed miserably from the 2022 trade deadline, through the Winter Meetings, all the way until she started making moves within weeks of pitchers and catchers reporting for 2023 and having to appear at Marlins FanFest. All the while, she never missed an interview or other self-promoting opportunity she was given during that phase, which got her bashed even more.
I’m hoping we get the right person going forward. Someone who can build up, offer stability, and see this job as their main focus.
People are looking for ways to bash the Marlins for this, even after they see she chose not to return. I can say as a Marlins fan, the FACT that she had moments when she seemed more interested in self-promo work more than her own GM job with the Marlins, I personally feel that she may have always been eyeing another, bigger role in MLB, and the Marlins job was just her building her resume…and she bailed out after she got that playoff-built team on her credentials, which also falls in line with her going a little all-in with the trade deadline transactions, and pushing some of our young pitchers in innings instead of being cautious at times. I won’t be surprised if she just becomes an Ambassador for MLB for a huge pay raise – which I think she’s better suited for and probably was always looking to do. Better job with better hours and less work than a GM.
BaseballisLife
Its truly sad that you use that name but have no idea that prior to Jeter and his Yankees gang being shown the door that Ng made no decisions.
MarlinsFanBase
Jeter left before the 2022 season started. Gary Denbo was fired in June 2022. Prior to Denbo’s departure, he had already lost favor and trust from the organization, thus was no longer in complete control of decisions, especially after Jeter’s departure.
The 2022 trade deadline was July 2022. Ng failed there when she had full control.
The 2022 Winter meetings were in December 2022. Ng failed there when she had full control. But she made sure she was available for every interview. And she made sure to have her speech ready for the Opening Ceremony of the Winer Meetings. And she was able to cast her Hall of Fame vote for Fred McGriff…which I’m sure a no-brainer decision like that took extensive periods of time to figure out as indicated by the unanimous selection.
She signed Jean Segura and Johnny Cueto just prior to pitchers and catchers reporting. She failed there when she had full control.
Hmmm…I wonder how much time did she need to handle things after Denbo was fired in June 2022.
She did come through in the moves for Luis Arraez, Josh Bell and Jake Burger…and finally ridding this organization of Garrett Cooper.
It’s sad that you can make comments about things you clearly don’t know…and have no shame of showing you lack of awareness of the FACTS. Some people have no shame is displaying their lack of knowledge.
BaseballisLife
Jeter had full control until Feb 28, 2022. Anything that happened before that date is 100% on him.
Denbo said when fired on June 30, 2022 that Ng wouldn’t even know who to draft because she had not been allowed to be part of it.
That she didn’t bring in the guys you wanted is not on her. Its all you.
One full season in charge. One playoff appearance. She made mistakes, she made great calls. That she wasn’t perfect is typical. That you think you are is pathetic.
MarlinsFanBase
@BaseballisLife
How long does it take for her to do something after she took over?
How do you justify her not making the moves needed to be done at the 2022 Trade Deadline? I’ll especially love to see your comment on this because I’m guessing your lack of awareness of the situation will make you comment and guess wrong on what you think myself and other Marlins fans have bashed her for about that deadline.
How do you justify her failed 2022 Winter Meetings?
How do you explain her not doing much of anything from the 2022 Trade Deadline all the way until MLB was a few weeks from pitchers and catchers reporting in 2023, and her having to face Marlins fans at Marlins FanFest?
I’ll love to read your comments to these.
BaseballisLife
The moves you named were not made by her. Just take the L and move on.
JoeBrady
Jeter had full control until Feb 28, 2022.
=================================
LOL! That doesn’t help you.
1-You’re basically saying that the Marlins hired her, but it was just for publicity purposes and she didn’t really do anything.
2-One of the things I gave her credit for was the Alcantara extension. And you are now saying I cannot even give her credit for that?
MarlinsFanBase
@JoeBrady
Well said. A lot of the people here bashing the Marlins about this move are all over the place with their bashing of the Marlins and defenses of Ng. It’s a situation where they’re having a hard time to pick and choose what favors their arguments.
JoeBrady
Actually, it worse than I thought, I gave her credit for Luzardo trade, but according to you, she didn’t do that one either.
JoeBrady
It’s a situation where they’re having a hard time to pick and choose what favors their arguments.
===================
That’s my whole reason for being here.
1-List all the major moves.
2-Judge every major move.
Then decide. I find way too many Americans would rather judge something as good or bad, and would rather not do any analysis to support their position.
Pads Fans
The Marlins were 47-55, 17.5 games back in the Eat, and 9 games back in the WC on July 31st 2022. What exactly did you think she should have done with the team Jeter built?
Ng transformed the Marlins in the offseason
She traded away Rojas and his injured wrist for minor leaguer Amaya.
She traded Lopez for Arraez,
She traded for Puk, Scott, and Barnes
She traded for JT Chargois and Xavier Edwards
She also acquired several prospects in trade.
She signed Cueto to a one year deal
She signed Segura to a 2 year deal
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/12/marlins-to-sign-jean-se…
She signed Gurriel and Iglesias to minor league deals
She signed Hampson to a minor league deal in December
She signed Bradley to a minor league deal
mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/offseason-in-review-mia…
She was also very busy on other potential deals
In December she made offers to Conforto (1/15 with $20 million player option), Justin Turner (1/15), Jose Abreu (2/40), and Drury (2/19)
She tried to trade for Trent Grisham in December. Padres wanted Lopez. She wanted more for Lopez.
She also tried to trade for Eduardo Escobar in December.
She pursued Casas in trade with the Red Sox. The Red Sox asked for Perez and Wendle, while the Fish were only willing to part with one of Pablo López, Jesús Luzardo, Trevor Rogers or Edward Cabrera in the trade and it fell apart.
Then we all know about the trades she made during the season for Robertson, Bell, Burger, and others. She also got rid of Segura’s contract in the Bell trade.
What an offseason and season. It resulted in the Marlins best record in 14 years and first playoff appearance in a full season since 2003.
MarlinsFanBase
@Pads Fans
For the 2022 season, she was expected to trade off the veterans that were getting offers. Every single one she didn’t trade dropped in value afterward. Not one single Marlins fan or local media was expecting her to trade for players. It was expected to sell off the ones to clear space to see what the young guys could do. She didn’t. In fact, when after she received offers for Aguilar and she didn’t trade him, the criticism of her got loud when she released him weeks later when she realized that she needed to clear space to see what one of their 1B prospects could do. Then with the faltering of value of Rojas, Wendle, Stallings, Cooper, Okert, Floro, etc. etc. made things worse for her. And let me note that the Braves even came to her about an Ozuna for Avi Garcia trade which she declined.
This covers what was expected in 2022 at the Trade Deadline. Everyone in Miami knew the Marlins were done by then. She held onto the vets that other teams wanted and made offers for. Look what she got for them afterward or will get.
Oh, and while I love that she finally landed Bell, you can’t excuse that she had to give a decent prospect for him because she needed the Guardians to take her Segura mistake off her hands.
As for when she finally woke up from hibernation in the 2022-23 offseason weeks before pitchers and catchers had to report for 2023, pretty much myself and other Marlins posters have said and acknowledged that she’s had a good year, mainly due to the 2023 Trade Deadline and the previous Arraez/Lopez trade. She certainly earned another year, but you can’t fault Sherman for only wanting the one year before committing to multiple because of Ng’s mixed results throughout her tenure (before and after Denbo’s departure).
BaseballisLife
She did do something. The 2022 team was built by Jeter and there was not much she could do once she took over in March 2022 with sprimg training already under way. That team was a lost cause.
From the end of the 2023 season through the deadline she turned a 93 loss team into an 84 win team in ONE offseason while increasing payroll just incrementally.
Your continuing comments attempting to denigrate her reveals much about you.
BaseballisLife
I just skimmed through this website’s articles regarding the Marlins from June 2022 through August 2022. I found just two offers they received for trading players. Garcia was not one of them. So what offers for players that did not materially contribute to the 2023 season are you trying to claim she was supposed to make? Link to this site any of those so called offers.
Mystery13
She’d been in Charge for 3 seasons, made the playoffs twice.
Sherman essentially fired her by not negotiating an extension. Blaming her for making the decision that led to the outcome Sherman ultimately wanted is exactly what Sherman wants
MarlinsFanBase
@Mystery13
It’s cute that you are eager to show you don’t know the facts.
Ng was not with the Marlins in 2020.
They did not make the playoffs in 2021 (her first year) or 2022. They made it this year. That doesn’t equate to making the Playoffs twice in her 3 seasons.
BaseballisLife
Its sad that you don’t know the facts mfb. Her first season of making the calls was 2022 and that didn’t start until March.
MarlinsFanBase
@BaseballisLife
Yes, it started in March 2022. The 2022 Trade Deadline was in July, the Winter Meetings was in December. The next activity she did was as everything was approaching the 2023 season.
So, where’s your excuse? Or do you need to learn the months in a year?
BaseballisLife
He gave you a link to this websites listing of all the moves, trade proposals, and FA offers she made.
You were shown to be wrong unequivocally Marlins.
Big Smoke
She finally had one decent year as GM, and you believe that warrants a long term extension? People really have to stop looking at small sample sizes.
Mystery13
Yes, when an owner refuses to provide resources, building a playoff team is impressive enough to warrant an extension
deepseamonster32
It was her 3rd year, maybe Jeter got in the way early on. Regardless, I don’t know how you properly evaluate a GM in 3 years, since they inherit a bunch of players and it takes years to develop talent. Especially in low payroll Miami. Maybe 2023 is a sign of things to come, or maybe it’s an aberration spruced up by the soft NL letting 84 wins make the playoffs.
It sure seems like Miami should have tried to keep her because it was a promising year, but they’re too cheap to tack on an extra year.
30 Parks
The Marlins simply do not understand the value in continuity. I thought Ng did a fine job guiding the Marlins.
terry g
She helped build a playoff team but they can’t agree on a new contract. Marlin’s going cheap again.
Unclemike1525
Not sure at this point which is dumber. Red Sox firing Bloom, White Sox hiring Getz. Or Ng getting launched, Whoever wanted it. If she refused it it was for one year, and apparently for garbage money so it is the Marlins fault. Wish I could start a poll.
30 Parks
I say the Getz hire is the worst of those three events, Mike.
Unclemike1525
The White Sox should of hired Bloom.
JoeBrady
He wouldn’t take it. Bloom needs a 5-year contract with complete autonomy with an owner committed to a rebuild. Not commenting on the overall job he did with the RS, but he basically did what he was hired to do.
The WS, the Rox, and the Angels would be nice landing spots, but the owners are weak and would jump ship the moment they had two bad seasons.
getrealgone2
She wants to move on to a better organization.
Unclemike1525
She wanted a multi-year contract that they wouldn’t give her obviously. And she earned it. She’ll get one somewhere else. It’s the same as Bellinger. Why accept a one year offer when you can get 5? It’s just common sense, Don’t let it get in your way or anything people. Marlins cheap out again.
User 3921286289
What the hell does Cody Bellinger have to do with the Marlins general manager position? You act like such a know-it-all but your head is so far up your piehole you can watch your own food digest.
Unclemike1525
Well it’s simple enough to figure out, For most people. Like Bellinger, She could either accept a one year low ball offer, OR…….. Put herself out there as a success and get a 5-7 year deal. Sorry if this is beyond your mental capacity.
JoeBrady
And she earned it.
====================
Why? Which moves impressed you the most?
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
Mike, they also may have told her that she can’t go get a #1 starter to fill in for Alcantara, won’t extend Arraez while he’s in arbitration, won’t extend Chisholm similarly, and wanted her to sell Soler before he hits FA. Hey, you wanna stay for that show, Kimmy??
Only Rick Hahn would stick around for those types of conditions.
CardsFan57
She already knows where she’s going. They will let an acceptable amount of time pass before announcing.
dennisv23
Some of the comments on here really make me weep for humanity. Lady did a hell of a job and deserved to be back on more than a one year deal.
Samuel
When most of us work for someone, we do what they say or we leave.
“Deserve” has nothing to do with it.
Keep in mind the Golden Rule:
He/She that has the gold……..rules.
C Yards Jeff
So trade talks between the Fish and other teams are now dead?
Louholtz22
Lame firing. That being said, time to bring in the fences and sign a bat or two. The staff can handle the short porches.
MarlinsFanBase
Please read the article. She was not fired.
Mystery13
Yes she was
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
The club’s chairman Bruce Sherman released a statement on the matter, as relayed by Jordan McPherson of the Miami Herald. It seems the two sides had a mutual option for 2024, with the club exercising their end but Ng rejecting hers.
BrianStrowman9
Tough timing. I think her drafts have been very poor since taking over. That’ll catch up to the ball club.
She inherited the wealth of SP’s from the last regime. But with the deals she made for Burger and Bell and their production post trade—I thought they’d for sure work something out. She’s done enough to stick around.
MarlinsFanBase
I agree with all you said here.
BaseballisLife
Ng didn’t handle the draft until Denbo was fired in June 2022. She didn’t make many decisions before Jeter was shown the door in early 2022.
BrianStrowman9
The 2022 draft was horrendous. There might not be a single significant ML contributor from that draft.
2023 she went heavy on 2 high school arms despite that being the org strength. I hate the Marlins recent drafts. They’ve already punted on the 2021 mistake of Watson. The Marlins have been very poor in that area since Sherman took over.
BrianStrowman9
I would imagine it was a Crane/Click offer for a 1 year extension and she was not interested in being a lame duck.
Understandable position for her to take but not completely unreasonable for the club to not want to hammer out a long term extension. I really would’ve liked to see her stick another year to evaluate but here we are.
CardsFan57
Teams don’t draft based on current team needs. They draft the best players available for each pick. Roster construction can be solved with minor league trades later.
BrianStrowman9
Every team is different RE the draft. It’s not as simple as shuffling deck chairs to get another organizations prospect for yours. Those deals obviously happen but that’s not a clean way to build.
High school pitchers are the riskiest subset of the draft. She essentially made this 2023 draft a 2 pitcher draft. Noble Meyer will have to be a big hit or this is a crap draft. I hated Berry as a prospect in 2022 and that was the $6MM 1st pick.
Not impressed with the way her regime has drafted at all.
BaseballisLife
Berry is in AA in his first full season in pro ball.
She wasn’t involved in 2021 draft per Denbo.
BrianStrowman9
Jacob Berry has no speed or defensive ability. His calling card was the he could hit. He hasn’t even been able to hit. A guy without any speed or D value has to absolutely rake.
That’s not a guy you give $6MM to and take with a top 10 pick. He looks nothing like a guy who will be a ML regular.
BaseballisLife
You are right that he plays poor defense. That he finished the season in AA and hit well there shows their confidence in him to make that jump was well placed.
BaseballisLife
As is the fact he is hitting .345/.424/.448/.873 in the AFL.
BrianStrowman9
AFL stats are nice to see if he’s legitimately straightened out. But will take it with a grain of salt until we see it translate next season. We’re talking 30 PA’s here.
Marlins need all the positional player help they can get. There’s just about nothing in the system on the position player side.
NG took a Limited defensive player in the top 10 and then followed that up with 2 HS Pitchers in ‘22. Then took 2 HS Pitchers in ‘23 for essentially their entire bonus pool. They’re going to have to buy a SS and a Catcher from elsewhere because that player is not down on the farm. Let alone to plug the ancillary positions.
Schumacher seems to be a good young manager. But you do have to give him some good young talent on offense to work with. Burger looks to be a good start. It does however make Berry an even clunkier fit should he work it out. He will have to really hit to being a starting DH or 1B.
JoeBrady
As is the fact he is hitting .345/.424/.448/.873 in the AFL.
==========================
He has a 7/3 K/W with -0- HRs. That’s pretty bad, especially for a guy that can’t field.
BrianStrowman9
Yeah & the sample is so small that is useless. I doubt the guys in the AZFL have the best data on the guys they’re playing. That and the sample size makes it not much of anything to me.
AZFL is great for making up lost ABS or working on getting something straightened out in your swing. 0 HRS playing in AZ isn’t the best start but it could be that he’s tinkering with his swing a bit to work on hitting line drives right now. Hard to take much from it. Good or bad.
Pads Fans
You are kidding, right. The AFL has all the equipment installed in MLB stadiums. Typically it has it BEFORE they get it in the majors. They have ALL the data possible. Also, teams send their best to the AFL.
Sometimes guys step up against the best competition. That is why such a high percentage of AFL players make the majors. Its actually higher than that coming from the 1st round of the draft.
I am not saying Berry is, because I have only seen him play in a few games in the AFL, but overall the AFL is the proving ground for the best of the best in the minors.
Samuel
BrianStrowman9;
If you recall, all last offseason Marlins fans were on here complaining about her and most others were piling on. The Marlins had a good year so now she’s a sympathetic figure
I’d suggest the turning point had to do with bringing Skip Schumaker in as manager. Of course I wasn’t in the meetings, but the Marlins had been looking for a CF since she’d been there. Suddenly they decided to move Jazz there, which opened up 2B that was then filled by Luis Arraez – arguably the best hitter in MLB. In complicated situations running any organization, people at the higher levels can’t be dictators ordering subordinates around (i.e. micro-managing). There has to be 2-way communication, and she apparently did that with Schumaker – which is to her credit.
Same as the situation with the Red Sox today and the Mets last offseason – quality FO and potential mangers of MLB teams don’t want to get stuck with owners that set up a structure which they can only succeed so far in. Taking a job with them is often a career killer, and most know it. Derek Jeter, Chaim Bloom, and Billy Eppler have had their reputations tarnished by owners that intervened to a point that they couldn’t do their jobs the way they wanted to. I believe that Steven Cohen has learned a lesson and will give David Stearns the authority to run the Mets Baseball Ops area.
–
A similar situation occurred in Cleveland years ago when the team was sold to the Dolan’s. The old man – that knew nothing about MLB – began dictating to GM John Hart what he needed to do. Hart quickly saw the writing on the wall and suddenly “retired”. Hart was the one responsible for putting together the powerful Cleveland club that went to the WS 2 out of 3 years (those owners could have cared less about which players came or left). The grown son of the owner immediately saw the disaster that was about to occur, and took control of the organization, having a hands-off policy with the Baseball Ops area. Mark Shapiro took over and ran it with Chris Antonetti. But they were too into analytics and going in circles. When Terry Francona got shafted as a manager with the Red Sox due to owner and FO politics, he happily accepted the offer to manage the Indians (at the time). He gave Shapiro and Antonetti direction (something I think Schumaker did in Miami), Cleveland’s team began to turn the corner, and at some point Mark Shapiro was kicked upstairs to the business side and told to keep away from roster decisions. Worked out fine.
BrianStrowman9
I was also not impressed with NG at the start of last season but you have to take 2023 as a year where she was successful in that role.
I’ve touched on the draft—which I’m not a fan of. But the moves for Burger and Bell were excellent. Bleday for Puk was a nice move. Tanner Scott blossomed into a great reliever who can throw strikes. (I never saw that command being reigned in) And Schumacher looks like an absolute winner in the dugout.
You really would’ve loved to see another year to fully evaluate this FO. Turnover isn’t great especially after a year in which the FO showed some promise. But I do not love her scouting dept and minor league pipeline. That’s the lifeblood of the organization and I don’t see an especially strong one.
JoeBrady
Bleday for Puk was a nice move.
========================
I wouldn’t take that wager. Puk is okay, but seems destined for a setup role. Nothing wrong with that. But Bleday is starting to hit. He had 10 HRs in 256 ABs, with a 72/42 K/W. That should play well in the future.
He was a huge reach at #1-4, and she was stuck with it. But I’d bet real money Bleday a higher career WAR, and I don’t expect ti to be close.
BrianStrowman9
Joe—not a fair fight. You can’t compare reliever WAR to an everyday position player. Look at Billy Wagner and Michael Brantley’s WAR total. Which one was the better player?
WAR when it’s postion player v reliever is completely useless to me.
. Bleday’s underlying hit data sucks. He’ll pop out a few HRS and he walks but he doesn’t get any other hits. He’s tracking like a less powerful current Joey Gallo. Not very good. Hes a corner outfielder so he will have to hit. He might be able to get away with that profile if he was a good CF.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Joe Brady
“Puk is okay, but seems destined for a setup role.” – Agree
“But I’d bet real money Bleday a higher career WAR, and I don’t expect ti to be close.” = You are far more generous than me in prognosticating Bleday’s future. I don’t even expect him to be a starter by the end of next year. When I have seen video of him in the plate he really seems lost and misses balls by a huge amount. Maybe my eyes have seen too small a sample, but I saw this trade as exchanging minor pieces of little but equal value.
JoeBrady
You can’t compare reliever WAR to an everyday position player.
==========================
You are 100% correct, but even worse, I knew that going in, and should not have posted that. I would still wager that Bleday will be a better player, but the WAR comparison was way way wrong.
JoeBrady
You could be right. I was decidedly NOT a Bleday fan. I saw a couple of his ABs when he was in Vandy, and his swing looked ridiculously long. But he put up very good numbers at the AZFL with 5 HRs in 95 ABs, with a 23/20, and I value the AZFL about the same as AA.
I also found it interesting that both Miami & Oakland thought enough of him to give him a shot in CF. I think he has a shot.
BrianStrowman9
Time will tell. I think Puk actually underperformed his talent level last season. He can be a nasty left handed reliever.
But I did lol at the CF thing. Nothing to do with you, just because Miami and Oakland have tried just about anyone out there.
JoeBrady
While true, just the fact that two GMs/managers were will to try that experiment suggests he must have at least some skill set.
tigerfan1968
What is the answer to 99 out of 100 questions ? MONEY… this line is from movie Vanilla Sky..
Domingo111
It looks like the Club only wanted to commit for 1 year and then evaluate again and she insisted on a multi year deal.
I can understand her here. She lead them to the playoffs but the team also overperformed and next year they will be without their ace (even though sandy wasn’t as good as usual) so they are very likely to miss the playoffs next year.
That means Ng’s value likely has peaked this season and she wants to monetize that with a nice multi year deal.
Seems like the marlins ownership isn’t ready to go there so she moved on.
There are a lot of open GM spots currently including some very high profile ones like the red Sox so of course she didn’t want to take a one year option after having a “career year”.
She is like a 30 yo pitcher who just became a free agent after a 2 era season, of course that pitcher is not going to take a 1 year deal and risk that the value is going down.
It seems like the marlins ownership isn’t quite convinced that the team didn’t just get lucky so they weren’t willing to commit longer term.
That also has some downside for the owner of course, if the marlins miss the playoffs next year (even if it is just natural regression and not failure of the new GM) fans will be quite pissed and the ballpark might be empty again. So it is a risk by the owner not re upping her after that successful year.
YankeesBleacherCreature
It’s tough to luck your way into the playoffs over a 162 game season. What playoffs guarantees can a new GM make for next season?
Pads Fans
You may have commented before it was added to the article, but the Marlins wanted to hire a POBO to be her boss. After having to put up with Jeter, Denbo, and their crew, its no wonder she didn’t want another person installed above her in the chain of command. She will have another job within days.
sfes
Y’all should read the article before you post your overused jokes. It was a mutual decision not a firing. She could have any job she wants at this point. Good decision by her in the long run, who wouldn’t want more stability? I was skeptical about the Arraez trade at first but it paid off. It’s going to be their loss in the end, imo.
Seamaholic
Actually it sounds like they exercised their end of the option. She quit, essentially. Presumably for a better gig somewhere else she’s already negotiated.
Mystery13
You think an mlb owner negotiated contract terms with a GM while they were under contract. Cool story
Farian
Not a mutual decision. She opted out, they wanted her back. Essentially, she quit.
sfes
Point being, she wasn’t fired
Domingo111
They only wanted her back at a 1 year deal though which is a sign of limited trust.
They could have offered her a 3-4 extension if they really wanted to keep her.
Farian
True, but they might also be cheap. And given the Marlins’ history, I’m inclined to think that’s the reason.
JoeBrady
You know what would be interesting? Instead of saying Ng is great, or Ng was a token hire, how about listing all the good and bad moves? Starting on 11/13/20:
The good
Arraez
Alcantara extension (assuming his arm wasn’t hurt at the time)
Luzardo
Scott
The bad
Soler $27M for 2.2 bWAR
Garcia $53M/4 with a cum -1.7 bWAR
Cueto $8.5M for a -0.2 on a team with no need for pitching
Segura $17M/2 for a -1.9 to play a position where he had 18 career starts
I don’t know enough about Ng’s international signings, but the US draft looks weak so far.
Thoughts?
Farian
Eh, I don’t think the Soler signing was bad. Overpaid in year one, underpaid in year two.
JoeBrady
At best, Soler is a break-even. There is no doubt that Ng’s FA signings have been very bad.
Farian
I wouldn’t use unequivocal language like “there is no doubt” and “very bad.” Soler was fine IMO, and Hampson was a good one. Overall, she didn’t do well in free agency, yes. The trades (you forgot Burger) and extensions made up for it, though.
JoeBrady
I didn’t include Burger because Ng gave up Watson in the trade. I’m not a big fan of Watson, but that could come back to haunt them.
But this is also why I raised the question. For the pro-Ng posters, saying she should be extended, without saying a single word about what she’s done, is every bit as sexist as saying she has done a bad job, without saying a single word about what she’s done,
They are all saying, indirectly, that she deserves an extension because she is a woman, not because she did xyz.
Farian
Ah, the truth comes out. Can’t say I’m surprised You don’t seem to grasp what’s going on here and are making some odd “reverse sexism” claim, proving some real ineptitude on your part and unawareness of wider issues of society issues regarding women in the workplace. No one is saying she deserves an extension because she is a woman, directly or indirectly. You’re just assigning that. People are saying she deserves one because she did a good enough job with this franchise.
Also, Ng only traded Jake Eder to the White Sox, so get your facts straight.
Domingo111
Most free agent signings under 50-60 mil are bad because you mostly get older or more limited guys.
Young-ish free agents who are really good will usually cost a lot.
disadvantage
@joe
“…without saying a single word about what she’s done.”
She was able to win 15 more games than last season and make the playoffs. While I am sure there may be some fans advocating for her specifically because she is a woman, I’ve found the vast majority of commenters approve of those accomplishment without explicitly spelling it out. Your point might hold a bit more weight if the team moved in a negative direction and still had advocates for her.
BrianStrowman9
Burger didnt involve Watson.
Bell cost them Watson. Watson is a long shot but he has loud tools on offense. He’s going to be a 2B or a util type but he has the potential to be a plus run and pop guy. Don’t know if his contact issues will let him ever get there though.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I think Soler was a good deal – not a great signing – but squarely in “good”. When he opts out, that will slightly further bolster my assessment of the market.
BaseballisLife
Everything bad you mentioned were Jeter decisions. Ng was GM in name only until Jeter was shown the door by Sherman in Feb. 2022.
JoeBrady
Everything bad you mentioned were Jeter decisions.
====================
If you go in that direction, there is no point in discussing it. I’ve seen this about a dozen time sin here. Folks that like GM abc say all the bad decisions were made by someone else, and all the good decisions were made bu GM abc.
Farian
Well, he oversaw day-to-day operations of the team until then, so the buck stopped with him and he ultimately holds responsibility for those moves. Ng was under him in superiority—we don’t know if those were even her idea.
BaseballisLife
Jeter and Denbo said it. Ng started making decisions after those two went away.
BrianStrowman9
Agreed, Joe.
The most recent drafts have been very bad. She centered her 2023 draft around 2 high school arms. Won’t know for awhile if that’s a disaster or not but I hate the concept for the current org construction.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Bad: letting Jazz play the outfield
drewm
She took over a garbage team and built them up to make the playoffs. She knows she’s worth more, so she declined the option. Marlins don’t want to pay what she’s worth, so both sides are moving on. This is business.
JoeBrady
She took over a garbage team and built them up to make the playoffs.
==========================
She took over a playoff team. One of the things folks miss is that Miami only has a Py W/L of .463 this year.
Past that, I agree. I think Miami wanted to see how she does next year before making a decision, which is fair. And I am betting that Ng’s agent thinks there is sufficient interest in her to gamble she can find a longer-term contract. And that is fair as well.
BaseballisLife
As we have seen clearly, what happened in 2020 had no bearing on how teams fared subsequently.
VonPurpleHayes
Marlins have a history of getting rid of talent after success. Such an odd move.
VonPurpleHayes
And yes, it seems this was Ng’s decision.
llily9727
She’s NG, literally.
Mystery13
Jays need to hire her immediately ala James Click if she doest’t find herself a PBO or GM role this offseason.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Orioles will trade Mike Elias for her lol
I only say this, because i liked her trade for Jake Burger
Although, I think she did a pretty good job, she got some results, so there is that
10centBeerNight
Broadway bound? One of the 2
Mikenmn
She’s going to get hired. Perhaps she wants to move a bit North, for the changing seasons. Someplace calm….like the Yankees?
Poolhalljunkies
Boston needs to send henrys jet to get her asap
Rick Wilkins
Bruce Sherman is a complete joke. Marlins fans deserve way better than that clown.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Huge upgrade over Ineptler! Get it done Davey!
bravesfan
Prob pretty smart of her. She has show success in an organization I just don’t see it substantiating in. In fact, the underlying numbers suggest they should have been far worst than they ultimately were. While she can hide behind the rise of success, she might as well go and try to land a better gig. That’s how I see it
Rezimodos
Any team that does not hire her, even if there is not currently a vacancy, exposes themselves as an organization dominated by misogyny and bigotry.
LordD99
Sherman drove Jeter out, who helped him land the Marlins franchise, and now he’s driven Ng out, who Jeter hired. Sherman now gets his own pick, but will he be better “aligned” with even his own hire?
I don’t see her taking a second-in-command job. Not after she waited her career to get the top job. A GM title with a PoBO above is a significant step down in power. Boston is open, but comes with its own issues with the inability to pick her own manager or most of her lieutenants. Perhaps that won’t bother her if Boston even had an interest. If not, she may need to take a year away, or take a holding position title as a senior advisor until the right position opens.
Rsox
I feel like the words Welcome, To, and Boston will likely be said regarding Ng in the near future
MarlinsFanBase
Every single time the Marlins have a move, we always get the most uninformed dimwits posting on their articles with their E!SPN and FOX Sports false narratives that come from lacking awareness. They need to realize what all South Florida sports fans realized a long time ago – E!SPN and FOX Sports only know the teams in NY and Boston. Their employees located in the northeastern United States have always hated Miami teams. For whatever reasons, they will always push false narratives about the Marlins, Heat, Dolphins, Panthers, UM Hurricanes, etc. that place them in uncomplimentary lights no matter what they accomplish or achieve.
Sheesh…learn the FACTS before you post stupidly!
Pads Fans
Looking in the mirror again Marlins?
Chris from NJ
As a northeasterner I can assure you that our media give no press to any Florida/Miami team. There is too much to write about with the Mets, Yanks,Giants,Jets. The only time a Florida team gets press is if it’s national news. Nobody is out to get Florida. No pays any attention to Florida unless it’s maybe the Dolphins and even then it’s not bad press. But you must follow all the news upnorth. There is an Boston bias in NYC and vice versa. Nobody is bashing Florida teams. Even when Jeter went to Florida it was newsworthy but nobody really cared. Stop blaming the northeast for everything. If it wasn’t for our revenue sharing from NYC,Boston,LA, you wouldn’t have baseball in Florida.
This one belongs to the Reds
Despite a lot of the inane comments on here, Kim Ng will have plenty of opportunities, even if it is next year after all the hires already.
She won’t be taking a step back to a subsidiary role and she shouldn’t.
redsox>
Ng would be perfect for the red sox
JSC Cubbs
Any chance Ng goes on to be Padres GM with Preller staying president of baseball ops?
Preller didn’t dismiss the idea of hiring a GM and changing his role in his last press conference. It felt to me that it was more a matter of if he could find the right person.
I don’t really know much about Ng, but I feel like the marlins brought up young players to be mlb regulars well, and maybe Ng had something to do with that, and that is something of a weak point for the padres lately.
One way or another, the Fish offered to accept their end of the mutual option, so she can’t have been bad at the job.
She might even bolster the padres already strong cred with Asian players.
Deleted Userr
She already refused to be second in command in Miami so the same is probably true in San Diego. Granted, there aren’t many jobs available right now where she would be the top shot caller.
Roguesaw2
Well, she refused to be second in command under the current terms of her agreement. She might be willing to be second in command somewhere else for more money. She clearly feels she’s done enough to make shopping around viable for her. And why not? If nothing else, why not try for a multi year deal?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I don’t know Ng personally so this is mere speculation.
But my life experience is that people are influenced by power, prestige, ego, resume building and money.
If you triple the pay, maybe she would take a lesser position. If you increase the power and prestige, maybe she would take less money. It is mere speculation unless you know her personally.
I believe that she is a top 12-18 GM in baseball. She should get additional options, but only a few.
Slider_withcheese
Told you she’d walk. Too many tough upcoming arb players and decisions lurk for the fish. She can now focus on doing what she does best, drinking her husbands cheap wine and hanging out with Michelle Obama.
aragon
Angels POBO!
wvsteve
She was doing a solid job and the club was in very good position to get better this off season. Ownership screwed up again
MarlinsFanBase
@wvsteve
Yeah, the Marlins should have forced her into accepting their terms – taking away her free will to do what she wanted to do. She shouldn’t have had the right to not return like she chose to do herself.
CardsFan57
The real question is whether they were open to an extension. She may have wanted more years. There are a lot of positions open now. Why wait until next year to look for a job? The team not being open to an extension could be interpreted as a mutual decision to part ways.
MarlinsFanBase
@CardsFan57
It’s a tough call on whether to have offered Ng that extension. We’re talking about a GM that has had mixed results throughout her tenure – whether you count Day 1 being when she was first hired or when Denbo was fired in June 2022. She has had a mixed bag of results.
Do you give that person multiple years of an extension or do you want to see that person prove themselves for one more year?
This is looking like two sides that truly saw something different. Sherman didn’t see enough to offer a multiyear deal, and Ng has to capitalize on being on a high note from having a good trade deadline. It makes sense now that this resulted in parting ways for both sides.
BaseballisLife
Sherman should have offered her multiple years. That he didn’t makes this on him.
MarlinsFanBase
@BaseballisLife
With more coming out on what happened, it’s not so cut and dry. Here are the issues at hand.
1 – For Sherman, he has a GM that has had a mixed bag of results throughout her tenure – whether you see it as being Day 1 when she was first hired or when Denbo was fired in June 2022. Do you give a GM with those results a multiyear deal just because she’s coming off a good trade deadline after she had a bad run prior?
2 – For Ng, she’s at peak value in her career (so far), so she’s got to capitalize on it for the Pay Day. Every smart person would, especially when you can’t predict the future of results and opportunities available. She needed to get a multiyear deal from her perspective or a promotion. It just wasn’t a match with the Marlins situation and Sherman.
I personally, after hearing more of the story come out, feel that there was no wrong side here. Ng may go on to have a great career, but no one knows that today, and no one can pretend that her results in Miami have been mixed. Sherman had every right to not feel comfortable with giving her a multiyear and wanting one more year to possibly see if she can continue on the latest uptick of performance by her. And Sherman has every right to hire someone above her. Ng has every right to walk away if she felt the situation and offer in Miami wasn’t in her best interest. It looks like both sides made the decision that today feels right for them. We’ll see how it turns out for both.
The Marlins moved on from a GM from mixed results. This wasn’t a GM with a long history and resume of consistent success. I don’t get the big issue being made out of it, or the Marlins being bashed.
BaseballisLife
Sherman had a GM that had the power to make decisions since March of 2022 and took the team from 93 losses to 84 wins and the playoffs.
She made one bad decision, Segura. She made several good to great trades. You have no idea if she was told not to make trades at the 2022 deadline and since they were in the midst of a 93 loss season, so it was probably a good idea not to make any.
That is the person you give a long term deal to. That Sherman refused to do that and that he wanted to demote her is indicative of his own misogyny.
It is looking more and more like Sherman just lost his GM that helped his team win because he didn’t want a woman in charge.
MarlinsFanBase
@BaseballisLife
Ahhh, you end your statement with the Woman Card. I won’t entertain that part until I see who is hired to be the President of Baseball Ops. Depending on who it is, I will agree or disagree with that part of your statement, but that assumption can’t be made at the moment because of so many other factors here.
Now to your other comments.:
She didn’t make just one bad decision in her time since Denbo’s firing. Johnny Cueto says hello. Not being able to sign Josh Bell, then having to trade for him using a nice prospect to get him and move Segura’s contract is another gaffe.
As for the 2022 Trade Deadline, your comment showed that I knew you’d guess wrong on what was expected from the Marlins. We weren’t looking for her to add to a team that was in the midst of a 93-loss season. It was expected that she would trade the veterans that had value in order to clear the roster so they could see what young players they had going forward, and to see if any decent prospects could be had. She only moved on from Bass in a trade. She kept Aguilar (who she released for nothing weeks later), kept Wendle, Berti, Stallings, Okert, Floro, Garrett Cooper, Miguel Rojas, etc. She even got an offer from the Braves for Avi Garcia in a straight deal for Ozuna. She was getting offers and did not move any of them…all of which decreased in value since. When she had to release Aguilar weeks later, after she turned down offers, the criticism on her began to get louder within the fanbase and the South Florida media. She failed that trade deadline…period. And I didn’t even touch her Winter meetings again here.
How do you give a multiyear deal to a GM with mixed results? That’s just stupid. She still hadn’t proved herself as a long-term success. She had a good trade deadline this year. That’s pretty much her high moment as Marlins GM.
I’d love to see the “several” good to great moves. I only see the 3 since Denbo’s firing (Arraez, Bell, and Burger), and the opinions of two of them are mixed. Some Marlins fans aren’t happy with trading Lopez for Arraez, even though I am, but their opinions are also valued. Bell’s addition came at a bigger cost than when she failed to land him in the offseason in the first place because she had to give up a decent prospect.
BaseballisLife
That you don’t know who the good to great moves says all I need to know about your lack of knowledge and reading comprehension.
There were good results or did you miss the fact that Jeter’s 2022 team hsd 93 losses and Ng’s 2023 team had 84 wins?
MarlinsFanBase
Yeah, typical avoidance when you get called out. You still have not responded with the details I called you out on.
So I’ll add.
Who besides Arraez, Bell and Burger great moves did she add since she took full control?
And please respond to the others. Or just show your dimwittery elsewhere or troll on.
Roguesaw2
Isn’t 84 wins, in and of itself “mixed results?” I get that nowadays that squeaks you into the playoffs. Didn’t used to. I mean, it’s 3 wins over .500. Not exactly dominate.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
There are plenty of reasons why Sherman might want to make a move – my best guess is that it has something to do with him being a cheap owner, Let’s see who he hires and how much he pays them.
If Sherman hires AA for example (this is the most extreme example and it won’t happen, we all know that), then I am not going to think twice about his motivation.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Rogue
On the budget of the Dodgers, Mets or Padres, 84 wins is “poor results”.
On the Marlins budget, 84 wins is “successful”.
That’s way the Rays impress me more than Atlanta and Atlanta impresses me more than the Dodgers. Doing more with less.
I would never say that the Rays are better than Atlanta or LS, because they are not. But more impressive to me.
My long shot prediction is James Click as the Marlins new POBO.
Legend of Roy Halladay
I heard rumors admiral Levine might interview for the job. It would be another historic first!! Equity
Deleted Userr
Interesting. There’s only 30 GM/PBO jobs in baseball so unless she’s already been offered one from another team I’d have just picked up the option.
BrianStrowman9
Essentially AGM responsibilities if they’re hiring a POBO above her. Understandable to not want to be a lame duck on a 1 year deal under someone you likely have no relationship with.
You probably commented before that was known like I did though.
Deleted Userr
I posted my comment before that was added.
Legend of Roy Halladay
Will Mlbtraderumors ever come out with an retraction article regarding Trevor Bauer? It’s amazing how silent all of the outlets that pushed lies are now that the truth came out.
Every article about Japan ignored how well he performed. Bauer would be a huge upgrade for any teams rotation in 2024.
Sports pushing social issues over the past decade has brought a lot of fans who have ZERO athletic ability and look at everything with a political bias much like Rob Manfred does.
Deleted Userr
Narrator: They won’t
jimthegoat
Retract what? What has MLBTR said about Bauer that you felt was biased or not grounded in facts already reported elsewhere?
CaseyAbell
Took a look at Bauer’s record this year in Japan. Nice numbers. 2.76 ERA in 130.2 innings with a 130-31 K-BB ratio and a 1.15 WHIP. Ordinarily, that would get some interest among MLB teams.
Things aren’t ordinary with Bauer, of course. He made three or four million bucks in Japan this year – depending on which source you believe – plus some incentives. Not much compared to his market value in the U.S. but hardly minimum wage. He also didn’t have to deal with all the bad publicity he would get in the States.
My guess is that he signs another (and richer) deal in Japan because he’s still blackballed in America. No, he won’t make U.S.-level money but he’ll do okay. And it’s a lot lower stress situation than he would encounter in the States.
whyhayzee
The Marlins outperformed the Yankees.
That is all.
Pads Fans
Maybe she will get Cashman’s job and he will get kicked upstairs.
JoeBrady
152 comments, and still no one says what it is that she has done well or poorly.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Well:
Alcantara extension, Arraez, Bell, Burger, Luzardo, Soler, bringing in Skip Schumaker, not trading Eury Perez or Max Meyer
The bad
Avisail, Cueto, and Jean Segura
No surprise that she has done better with trades than free agents. It is harder to attract quality free agents to lows-pending Sherman’s Miami without an overpay.
Ranking
GM somewhere in the #12 to #18 range, let’s say #15 to split the difference.
My top pick is AA
My long-shot prediction for Miami is James Click.
JoeBrady
I thank you for this. My only goal here was to make people think about her accomplishments, and not make their decision based on the fact, pro or con, that she is a woman.
It is astonishing how little analysis goes on in here (and America).
Past that, I think Max’s trajectory has flattened out a fair amount, but I easily could’ve added Schumaker to my list a positives. Good point.
CaseyAbell
I look at that 33-13 record in one-run games, and I think she got out just in time before it all craters next year for Miami. Now she can look for another job coming off a playoff year instead of another losing season.
CaseyAbell
Oh, the one-run record was 33-14. With a -57 run diff, this screams losing season in 2024.
MacGromit
@CaseyAbell
Good for Ng for getting out of there before regression to the mean happens next year. Sandy out all year too.
CaseyAbell
Just saw Passan’s report about Miami possibly hiring a POBO who would rank higher than her. Passan sounds like an Ng partisan, so I’m not sure how much credence to give him. Still, if the report is true, I can see why she wanted out before what looks like almost inevitable regression for the Marlins in 2024.
Miami lucked out this year into a wild card, and it’s not likely they’ll get so lucky next year. Being the number two exec on a losing team doesn’t look nearly as good if you’re hunting for a new job after 2024. Why not hit the market as the number one exec on a playoff team in 2023? So declining the mutual option makes some sense.
briar-patch thatcher
About damn time, now go get a real manager.
AllAboutBaseball
Kim Ng did a far better job than half the overpaid GMs in the league.
GarryHarris
Which ones?
BaseballisLife
Any one that was not in the playoffs.
Blackouts are racist
Darragh, if you edit an article with a MAJOR update, be sure to spell that out. The comment section is full of bickering because you changed the original post pertaining to how and why the two parted ways. That’s on the writer and publisher.
pirateking24
Didn’t the article mention that the Marlins were looking to hire someone that would be above Ng and she didn’t want that and decided to step away?
Mikenmn
The article now mentions the proposed new hire by Marlin’s ownership that would have been effectively a demotion for Ng. She had to leave. Her contract would have been up in one year, and in a diminished role. You have to say no to that. She’s better off looking for a new gig.
aragon
What a dumb decision. They should have promoted her to the POBO and hired a GM!
Big Smoke
Nope
JoeBrady
Just for discussion purposes, the major players on Miami that were acquired via free agency were Soler, Garcia, Segura, and Cueto. They combined for a -0.9 bWAR for a combined $39.5M. Good or bad?
SheaGoodbye
Pretty sure only presenting one side of an argument has nothing to do with wanting a discussion. It’s an agenda.
JoeBrady
Nope. I’ve asked probably a half-dozen people why they liked Ng. Only one responded. Feel free to explain why you like her, or dislike her, or anything else.
Hired Gun 23
I agree with those say she’ll find another gig soon. She could sit back and watch how the Angels situation shakes out…
Old York
Just like the Mets & Manny, Marlins gonna Marlin.
LOLmarlins!
acoss13
If she didn’t want to be below a POBO then that makes sense for her leaving, probably didn’t want conflicting opinions on handling the team’s decision-making. Boston might be appealing to her, especially if she’s going to be the POBO there.
Chicks dig bunting
One f there worst moves they made was to hire her because of equality and that’s what you get
leftykoufax
I’m not sure whats worse, your screename or your comment which is decidedly chauvinist.
BaseballisLife
Only Segura was an Ng signing. The rest were Jeter.
Segura was bad. $8.5 million.
That was not all she did. Arraez. Bell. Hampson. Burger. Puk. Scott.
BrianStrowman9
Cueto. Segura was over $17 in total. Watson had to be given away to correct that mistake and bring in Bell.
Hampson has less than 200 ABS in Miami. We’re declaring the Burger and Bell trades win (myself included) But let’s realize that is not an absolute certainty. Both Watson and Eder do possess upside to flip the narrative. Burger and Bell were excellent—for just over 2 months. Not exactly something that couldn’t change course.
Let’s also not forget that she did give up young but real prospects for DRob as well. I would’ve liked to see her stay for at least another season but let’s lay out all the cards.
Pads Fans
Those deadline trades put them in the playoffs. None of the players they traded away were among their top prospects. Ng got wins on those.
JoeBrady
I’m betting on a loss on the Bell trade. Bell is barely worth his salary, let alone Watson. I doubt he is a SS, but he has a 30/30 ceiling. But I like the Burger trade, if only because I don’t see the appeal of Eder.
BaseballisLife
Without Bell, the Marlins don’t make the playoffs. He cost them $5.4 million while they shed $11+ million for Segura. A net $6 million gain.
As you often point out, players like Watson with 32% SO rates and a .734 OPS in single A rarely amount to much in the majors. His current SO rate is equal to 208 SO in a full major league season.
There is a reason that Watson is rated a 45 FV prospect with just 2 plus tools, run and arm.
Pads Fans
The Guardians ate Segura’s deal to get rid of Bell and Bell was good for the Marlins.
Big Smoke
Don’t forget David Robertson, her best acquisition by far
mikesciosciastragicillness
The Giants should hire her instead of that guy who is at the helm now.
RockinRobin
Since she chose to leave, she must have something else in the hopper.
Proudveteran
I wish the Seattle Mariners would replace Jerry Dipoto with Kim Ng
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
I doubt it makes a difference. M’s ownership is now just as cheap as the Marlins ownership.
YEP
Steal Jake Burger from the White Sox thanks to her relationship with Kenny Williams and now neither her nor Kenny has a job. Thanks a lot.
olmtiant
So Kim won’t be a GM that takes direction from 23 other people with made up titles above her oh and probably the manager…. Looks like Bostons out….
MarlinsFanBase
As the story continues to be added onto and more information being released, it’s looking more and more that this truly was two sides that decided that it was best to part ways.
I’ll start with Ng. She is on a high note right now after having a good trade deadline that helped the team make the Playoffs. She certainly should want to keep her decision abilities without someone above her hindering the process. She also should be demanding a multiyear extension while her value is at the highest peak it’s been in her career so far. If she couldn’t get that with the Marlins, she was completely justified. And if she could land a job with someone as President of Baseball Ops after just 3 years as a GM (1 1/2 after Denbo’s firing), she should want that too if she can get it. She would be dumb to not walk away to find what she could demand right now. She made the best decision for her.
Ads for Sherman and the Marlins, he has every right to only have wanted to go with the option to see how Ng performs one more year after she’s been a mixed bag of results throughout her time in Miami – both prior to Gary Denbo’s departure and after. He also has the right to hire someone above Ng if he’s not fully confident in her after mixed results during her tenure. He did what he feels was the best decision for him and the Marlins.
Little added thoughts about this:
If Ng had eyes on that President of Baseball Ops, which any front office person in the industry should be, she couldn’t seriously think she was deserving of the job after 3 years, and certainly couldn’t expect Sherman to not fill the role that has been vacant since Jeter’s departure before the 2022 season. Now, I’m wondering if during the discussion with Sherman, if potential names were revealed because I’m sure that for the conversation, the Marlins must’ve been already talking to people. That may play a role in this if Ng was eyeing the job. That leads to my next thought.
With Sherman hiring someone in the role, out of respect for Ng’s work, I think it should’ve been leaning toward someone older that could groom Ng for the role while not blocking her. If Sherman was leaning toward someone around Ng’s age or younger, that was a bad decision and gives off bad optics to others outside the organization and within and certainly to Ng. In fact, if Sherman was leaning toward someone around Ng’s age or younger, it could come off as a Glass Ceiling being established over Ng. I doubt something like that would come out in comments, but it could be clear once the Marlins make the hire. I don’t even think Ng will say it because it would call into question her patience in building up toward a role like that…no matter what her history of moving up and paying dues says. And with Sherman, he’d obviously stay quiet about that.
No matter what. Stay tuned because everything will continue to come out…even as some of us are commenting.
BaseballisLife
You keep getting the facts wrong. Typical.
MarlinsFanBase
@BaseballisLife
Go look at the calendar. I’m glad you’re showing you can’t even get that right.
sfes
She could have her pick of GM jobs right now. @Marlinsfanbase what do you think of all her moves? The Arraez trade seems like it made the difference between the postseason and not getting in. I was iffy on that trade at first
MarlinsFanBase
@sfes
Overall, the full body of her work with the Marlins was filled with hits and misses. As of right now, she’s riding the high wave of having had a good Trade Deadline performance this year. With people tending to go with the ‘what have you done lately’ thing, she has complete control of what job she can take when offered. Good for her.
As for the Arraez move, I’m thrilled. I’m one of the Marlins fans that’s been happy with it. Losing Lopez obviously make one miss him, but we have a surplus of young pitchers, so we should be fine in the long term, so getting Arraez for him was a good trade. Arraez can flat out hit. That’s a good addition to combine with our deep young pitching pool as we go forward.
YankeesBleacherCreature
It’s Sherman’s loss offering her only a lameduck GM option year while she receives a demotion. Ng has also spoken with The Athletics.
MarlinsFanBase
@YankeesBleacherCreature
It’s debatable if it’s a loss. Prior to her having a good Trade Deadline performance this year, it would have been expected for Ng to have been fired if she failed again for a second straight year. People seem to forget what she did prior to this year’s trade deadline – whether you look at what she did from when she was first hired or when she had full control after Gary Denbo was fired in June 2022. She has been hit or miss all the way through until this past deadline. You can’t blame an owner for not buying into a multiyear extension and wanting to finally fill the vacant position that is over her. To me, this is a simple case of what Sherman was comfortable with going forward does not match what is the best career decision for Ng. When you have a mismatch in these two areas, there will be a parting of the ways. Neither is wrong for it, nor is it a loss at this time for either.
Pads Fans
Ng had one full season as GM, 2023. In 2022 the team was set prior to Jeter being forced out at the end of February. From March on there was little she could do about that abysmal team that Jeter and Denbo put together during the 2022 season.
In the 2022-2023 offseason she put together a team that was able to stay in the hunt and at the 2023 deadline she added the pieces to put the Marlins over the top and into the playoffs in the first full season since you were in diapers. .
That is what a quality GM does. She will not be out of a job long, unlike Jeter and Denbo who are still jobless.
YankeesBleacherCreature
With Jeter, he’s always stated that he only wants to be in the front office if he can own a piece of the team. The Yankees could use him but no one is selling him shares.
TellItGoodbye
Hey Giants – Fire FZ and his pocket protector stat geek dungeons & dragons nerd analytics insanity and hire Ng!
I can dream, can’t I?
Steve Lawrence
The Marlins improved under her tenure. I believe that she’ll be hired elsewhere soon.
LFGMets (Metsin7) #InEpplerIsGone!!!!
Ng has made some amazing moves and some awful moves in her tenure. My favorite move she made was trading for Arraez, absolute steal. I don’t remember if she pulled off the Luzardo trade but if she did then kudos as well. Now on to the bad… Jean Segura basically was the worst player in all of baseball this year, Garcia has been awful, Wendle and Stallings trades were bad, Soler was bad year 1 but good year 2, didn’t improve the bullpen at all (unless you count Tanner Scott and Puk as “improvements”). Drafting wise I don’t really know if she did a good job or not. If she picked Khalil Watson then she basically wasted a top 5 pick on a bum that turned into half a year of Josh Bell, not ideal. Marlins made the playoffs though so I can’t be too hard on her. I’ll rate her as a 4/10 GM, with the scale based on Eppler as a 0 and AA as a 10
rockofloveusa
i agree with you .
but i love Luzardo trade
Jean Segura move was bad . seen it coming from day one . .
no way he was going to be better then Brian Anderson with more power. then him. and keeping Joey Wendle over him also. when marlins had Jon Bert.
but marlins made playoff because Jean
Segura a trade that had to be made. . was not for pitching in June marlins never make playoff. getting bell force Jake burger deal.
i also call zac gallen trade bad 2019 know. and Braves acquire OF Adam Duvall from Marlins for C Alex Jackson
hotcorner
Maybe the Marlins can get Preller, a perfect fit.
3bros
I would’ve made a Ng for Preller swap in a heartbeat.
Big Smoke
Without a $300+ million budget to work with, Preller won’t be able to do his “magic”
Pads Fans
Preller didn’t have a $300 million budget in 2023 and will have basically the same budget for 2024 according to Seidler. Look for more “magic” this offseason.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
She quit for the same reason Jeter quit as CEO. Wanted to invest in the team and make it better, ownership pretty much said “frig off!”
Good for her, maybe she can go to Boston and have a little more freedom to build a team how she wants it built.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I could see the Red Sox being interested in signing her.
olmtiant
Judge… see 12 comments below…Lol
Cooperdooper7
Judgement Day: Why would she want the Red Sox…. reason why she left Marlins is because she didn’t want someone over her telling her what to do. The Red Sox are a backwards organization, they have a manager calling the shots with the front office and way too many hands in the cookie jar..
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I didn’t say she would want it… I said the Red Sox might want to sign her.
Lee Harvey Oddball
Back to the basement
Kruk's Beer League
Sounds like she wanted to be POBO. I know she was an AGM for years but she legit has been a GM for 3. Seems kind of like an entitlement thing tbh.
Pads Fans
She legit has been GM only since Jeter was forced out. Prior to that Jeter was the one making the decisions in baseball operations. Denbo in the draft, scouting and player development,
So 2023 was really the first season you could say the team was Ng’s.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Gender aside, she was incompetent for having Jazz play OF and having Segura at 3rd.
JoeBrady
and having Segura at 3rd.
=====================
That was probably my biggest issue. He’s not terrible, but at age 33, I don’t know why it required a 2-year plus an option. But then to put him at 3rd, where he had 21 career starts, at age 33?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Test
Mjm117
You failed.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Baseball is basically turning into softball now. Will they throw underhanded next?
Citizen1
Was she expecting to be president of baseball operations??Different position, except for a few like Theo Epstein who seemingly did both gm and president with Boston & Chicago. Maybe no raise was offered or feared the new exec would bring in their own gm. No constant winning formula for that franchise.
NoNeckWilliams
Miss Ng in action
Grumpofm
I don’t blame her. They were going to bring in someone and have her report to them. If they liked her performance, they could at least interview her for the position.
Chris from NJ
I don’t blame her for wanting out. I would think her and Sherman didn’t agree on direction. And after making good decisions that sent a mediocre team to the playoffs she decided to leave while her stock is high. She’s never impressed me with her signings but my guess would be Sherman told her the payroll wouldn’t be increasing and I’m sure she’s fought that battle many times. Sherman wants that revenue sharing money all for himself.
JoeBrady
The payroll did go up by a fair amount. It was $82M in 2021 and $129M in 2023.
Deleted Userr
Bumping this thread with no new information noice.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Kyle
No, he was the first Asian-Canadian.
Haha! I got you as he is Pakistani-Canadian.
Just teasing, your point is well-taken.
getrealgone2
Oh now the truth comes out. They were trying to undermine her.
ThonolansGhost
Took a full day, but we finally got the details. Easy to see why she walked away.
Flanster
“Oh,well that’s different. Never Mind “
westcasey
Sounds to me like POBO was the goal, and maybe the best position for her, but in meeting with Sherman he emphasized that HE was priority, not spending on competitive development throughout system in all phases. Ng could have hired GM and worked the MLB part pretty well (opinion) with new GM while developing system throughout. Obviously this was not the outcome, so not the case.
greg1
Way to go Marlins, your adverse interest in winning shines through again.
Pads Fans
The standard practice in the industry is for a GM who is nearing the end of their contract and who has just made a significant accomplishment to be given a raise and extended for 3 years.
Ng had put together a Marlins team that made the playoffs for the 1st time since 2003. That is unquestionably a significant accomplishment. She also changed the culture of the organization. theathletic.com/4927865/2023/10/04/kim-ng-marlins-…
For her work Sherman said in essence, I am firing you as GM and putting in a POBO, a man, who will make all the decisions on personnel in Baseball Operations and on the field. You will not get a raise and you will not be extended. At the end of 2024 you will go away.
So for anyone trying to say that she quit, that is just not the case. She was forced out.
Like the Red Sox, the Marlins will face considerable headwinds in trying to hire a new head of baseball operations and for many of the same reasons. Interference from above, not rewarding winning, and an old boys network of insiders that have more sway with ownership than whoever the head of baseball operations will have.
Ng on the other hand will find no difficulty in getting another job in baseball. She may choose to take a year off to be a special advisor or going back to work for MLB in some executive capacity, but I doubt it. There are several jobs available as a GM or POBO and she will undoubtedly be in the mix for most of those.
I fully expect to be seeing “welcome to the Red Sox” coming soon, but some organization that currently has a GM may surprise us all. Ng hired as POBO with the White Sox?
thornt25
I don’t understand the drooling over Ng’s record that would lead her to being POBO somewhere or GM for a major market team like Boston. The record has been decidedly OK. The team massively outperformed in 1-run games and posted a run differential of -57. With or without Ng, 2024 Marlins look to be a 70-75 win team. So it also happens to be a good time for her to get out before things turn ugly. She will likely find a GM position elsewhere, but her record doesn’t point to a frenzy like Andrew Friedman.
Good:
-2023 trade deadline.
-Arraez for Lopez is neutral, maybe a minor win. Lopez had a better year but less club control, which is an important factor.
-Bottom 10 budget.
-Luzardo (was she a part of this? Timeline is uncertain.)
Bad:
-Not selling at the 2022 deadline.
-Free agent signings overall.
-Chisholm to OF.
By far the biggest negative is the bottom 5 farm system. Large market teams can paper over this with Free Agent signings, but Scouting/Draft/Development is the lifeblood of small market teams. Stumbling into the playoffs with 75 expected wins would yield an extension if they had a farm system in the top half of the league, but recent drafts have been poor.
Pads Fans
Arraez had a better season than Lopez
4.9 WAR to 3.3 WAR. .354 BA/133 OPS+ vs 3.66 ERA/117 ERA+.
Who was Ng supposed to sell at the 2022 deadline? Specifically.
Their farm is ranked 24th.
They are a team that is best at developing pitchers and she drafted the 2 best HS arms in the 2023 draft. She also drafted one of the top HS arms in 2022, the 1st draft she was involved in. Not sure how you think that any of those two drafts were bad at this point.
thornt25
Arraez v. Lopez depends on whether you trust baseball reference or fangraphs more. I wouldn’t count it as a big win either way. My guess is that the Twins win this in hindsight, but that’s not the main argument here.
Countering “bottom 5 farm system” (fangraphs) with “Nope, the 7th worst” (MLB.com) is a funny thing to correct someone about. Since you used MLB.com as a reference, I would encourage you to look at the trend of the farm system ranking over the last few years so you can see what was inherited vs. what they have today. It’s a uneasy spot for a team to be in that who has a middling core that is injured or due large arbitration raises,
Looking at the overall landscape of the Marlins, Ng did an OK job given the resources at hand. She didn’t preside over a Rockies/Royals/A’s/Angels level disaster but also not something to gush over and fast track her for POBO. They made the playoffs with an historically poor run differential (for a team that made the playoffs). If the farm system was well regarded, or if they made the playoffs with a team of recently graduated prospects, or this was coupled with a knack for finding gems off waivers (like the Mariners), then you could point to a stellar GM.
Pads Fans
Fangraphs has one guy in their prospect ranking. MLB has a large team
Fangraphs uses OAA for defense which doesn’t include after the ball in play is caught. BR uses DRS which tracks the play until the ball is dead.
Fangraphs uses expected FIP. BR uses actual FIP.
Going with MLB and BR over Fangraphs across the board. Someday StatCast will include the entire play and that will change. For now, its BR with DRS for the win.
The Marlins had the 2nd highest percentage of players in their 1st or 2nd seasons in the majors this season, so their farm is doing something right.
The Marlins team having their best record in 14 years and making the playoffs for the first time in a full season since 2003 is something to gush over, but you can keep on being negative if you want. It says more about you than her or about the facts. You can also talk about expected stats instead of what really happened if you want. Won’t make you correct.
thornt25
“Fangraphs has one guy in their prospect ranking. MLB has a large team” – You’re making this point to argue over a 24 vs. 26 ranking in farm system rankings. Would winning this point make any substantive difference? The farm is below average to poor and trending in the wrong direction, using your source.
For Arraez/Lopez, both BR and fangraphs are useful as approximates. But yes, I think it matters if your player provides value through a high BABIP vs. stats that better predict consistent outcomes, even if it doesn’t matter from a backward looking perspective. It seems like you’re hanging a lot on Arraez for Lopez being this genius trade for the Marlins when it mostly looks like a wash.
The development pipeline is not busted. This is not the Angels. But this teams’ largest contributors seem to be entering late arbitration with some modest contributions in that 1-2 year group. % of innings played doesn’t matter as much as quality and potential.
I’m not being negative. Her tenure was fine. Not bad, not that impressive either. They have a middling team and a below average farm. Whether ownership should stay the course for 3-4 years or move on shouldn’t be that controversial. At this point, evaluating what happens with the Marlins in the next few years is academic because she isn’t with the team anymore. If they’re bad, it’s because they lost Ng, not because they have a below average farm and indicators that suggest their success isn’t repeatable.
64' Yanks
The Marlins wanted Stanton back, but he won’t budge unless Cashman becomes the GM……the wheels are turning in Florida!
rockofloveusa
?
cleonswoboda
I would certainly love her coming to the Mets,that would be an amazin’ front office. Uncle Steve,are you listening?
westcasey
GM Ng spoke with owner, Sherman. Owner explained he was going to hire POBO above her, essentially relieving her of the decisions. It was essentially a demotion, taking away authority.
He then exercised his option to keep Ng (one year) to (likely) avert ‘societal conclusions of gender/nationality bias,” or something like that. I would bet Sherman was thinking she would not exercise her option under those circumstances.
She opted out, so that’s the bottom line. To his credit, it was above board that he laid out his plan. He (obviously) must not have wanted to retain her, or he would have created an acceptable offer. It could be over money as much as anything. It could be control.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
She must already be rich…
Or figures she can make more money elsewhere.
Very few people in this country or anywhere in the world can walk away from a job like that….no matter what…..
$ MUST BE NICE $