Joey Votto may have played his final game in a Reds uniform. It’s hard to imagine, given just how long Votto has been a fixture in Cincinnati, but it’s equally hard to imagine the Reds will pick up his $20MM team option for 2024.
Speaking to reporters (including Gordon Wittenmyer of the Cincinnati Enquirer) after the final game of the regular season on Sunday, Votto had little insight to offer about his future with the Reds or in Major League Baseball. “As far as my future, my individual future, I’m still not there yet,” he explained. “I’m just not there.”
It’s perfectly understandable that Votto isn’t ready to make a decision. The Reds were still alive in the postseason hunt until the final days of the season, and the de facto team captain says he didn’t want to think about anything other than the playoff push. More to the point, the first decision isn’t his to make; the Reds must choose whether to exercise his $20MM option or pay him a $7MM buyout.
Still, the veteran’s comments are telling. The fact that he doesn’t have an answer about his future means the possibility of retirement has at least crossed his mind. A player with his talent and track record could certainly find a new deal this offseason, whether with the Reds or another club, but at 40 years old, Votto could be getting ready to hang up his hat. He is coming off two injury-plagued seasons with the worst and second-worst OPS numbers of his career. The six-time All-Star has always been highly competitive, as he mentioned on Sunday. If he no longer feels like he can compete at the highest level, he might prefer to quit before his skills decline any further.
As for the Reds, they have a pair of promising youngsters who could take the reins from Votto next season. Rookie Spencer Steer started 53 games at first in 2023. Overall, he played in 156 contests, leading the team in plate appearances, home runs, and RBI. Among his teammates (min. 150 PA), he finished third with an .820 OPS and a 118 wRC+. Christian Encarnacion-Strand also played a handful of games for the Reds at first base after a midseason call-up. In his first taste of big league action, he slashed .270/.328/.477 with 13 home runs in 63 games.
This is not to say the Reds couldn’t make room for Votto next season; when healthy, he was still the team’s primary first baseman in 2023. However, if they choose to keep him around next year, it will be for his veteran leadership and because of what he means to the franchise, not because they have a hole to fill at first base.
If Cincinnati doesn’t pick up his option, Votto will have to decide if he wants to join fellow veterans Miguel Cabrera and Adam Wainwright in retirement or if he would rather keep playing to pad his potential Hall of Fame resume. Whatever they choose to do, the Reds will have to make a decision within five days of the conclusion of the World Series.
“keep playing to pad his potential Hall of Fame resume”: is that how it works? Or does playing at a diminished level tarnish your credentials? What do people think?
For him, he is more likely to pad his resume. His counting stats are quite low for the HOF. He will never hit even 2500 hits or 400 homers, but getting closer couldn’t hurt, even if his rate stats and WAR total suffer.
Idk. “Joey Votto swats 44 home runs” sounds like a $5 bet on FanDuel just in case. Lol if he could stick around for two (healthy) years, he easily gets to 400
@truth. Ryne Sandberg is in the hall of fame and has neither 2500 hits or 400 home runs. He’s got more hits than Votto, but less home runs. If Votto retired after this year, he’d also have a higher career average than Sandberg.
My only real point is that sometimes, popularity amongst the HOF voters and your peers is at times stronger than their numbers. If I were to guess, I’d say Votto gets in on his reputation and popularity.
Some further clarification—
Sandberg is in for his defense at second base (9 Gold Gloves) more than anything. His counting stats (HR) were also very high for his era at 2B and cannot strictly be compared to Votto’s without considering such. He changed the way second basemen were expected to perform at the position.
Ryne Sandberg is in the hall of fame
=======================
Comparing a 9x GG winner at 2nd to a plodding 1B?
I love it when Hemlock gets serious. Teach them, dude!!!!!
Thinking has changed on the statistical value of strikeouts, walks, etc. A bases empty single has the same value as a walk. How many extra hits could Votto have had if he was more aggressive?
If Minoso and Larry Walker got in so does Votto.
Lemonade
No, I think Votto is hurting not helping his cause, see Buster Posey and Madison Bumgarner.
Posey is definitely getting in.
Low numbers, never won. Not a Hall of Famer but probably gets in on the third ballot because that’s the new reality.
Are you high? Of course votto is a Hall of famer. Over 2,000 hits and 350 HR. .290 lifetime avg with an MVP May not get in on his 1st or 2nd try but by his 3rd time he’ll be in guaranteed
Votto will probably get into the HOF, but his case is not even close to the level where you can ask people, “Are you high?”
@tangerinepony: Other than 356 home runs to 162, his career is statistically similar to that of Keith Hernandez, who is not in the HOF.
Your stats say that’s not Hall of Fame material. I’m also saying he’s going into the Hall of Fame despite not having enough numbers or success (not every MVP gets in BTW). If I need to spell it out for you, you should take a look in the mirror and ask if you are high.
You’re off your rocker. Keith Hernandez never hit more than 18 HRs, had a career OPS of .821 and fewer than 200 HRs. Votto has a .920 OPS 350 Hrs and is 42nd all time in OBP.
@its_happening: And you should take a look in the mirror and ask why the guy looking back at you is unable to disagree with civility and respect instead of making stupid personal remarks.
@slasher016: I mentioned the difference in home runs.
But Hernandez played on two world championship teams, which is two more than Votto.
But Hernandez won a batting title, which is one more than Votto.
But Hernandez won 11 Gold Gloves, which is 10 more than Votto.
But Hernandez won two Silver Sluggers, which is two more than Votto.
But Hernandez had 60 triples, which is 38 more than Votto.
But Hernandez also stole more bases and had a higher batting average than Votto.
Now get up and climb back on your rocker.
Votto’s career WAR is below Jeff Kent, Bobby Abreu and Bobby Grich.
Will Clark, Lance Berkman and Keith Hernandez are all good comparables.
Votto deserves to be in the Reds Hall of Fame and the Canadian Hall of Fame. His knack for getting walks is to his credit. But he has only one Gold Glove, a weak post-season history, and limited power for a first baseman. An exceptional player well deserving of the Reds Hall of Fame and the Canadian Hall of Fame.
We live in America…. Everyone is high
200 career home runs extra isn’t a small thing.
Baron: nah, that person opened the door. If what I replied was me “unable to disagree with civility and respect instead of making stupid personal remarks”, I would strongly suggest you re-read everything. Nothing I said comes close to your inaccurate assertion – respectfully speaking.
@its_happening: Inaccurate in your opinion, not in fact.
@schellis 2: Neither are a batting title, 38 triples, 10 Gold Gloves, or two Silver Sluggers.
Comment of the century.
Keith Hernandez belongs in he HOF for his defense. You had to have seen him play.
RE: Blue_Baron
“you should take a look in the mirror and ask why the guy looking back at you is unable to disagree with civility and respect instead of making stupid personal remarks.”
“,Now get up and climb back on your rocker.”
Muted
No, not everyone. Many people use that as a reason to do what they shouldn’t be doing though
1905 hits 366 HR 1135 RBI 293/.406/.537 144 OPS+
2105 hits 355 HR 1144 RBI .294/.409/.511
144 OPS+
Little to no defensive value at 1b for both.
So, I mean, same guy right?
Playoffs?
59-186 9 HRv41 RBI 21 xbh. Better slash than career and 1 ring
10-41 no XBH, 1 rbi. No rings
Bottom line is “Lock HOF” Votto
Top line is Lance Berkman
Womp womp HOF.
I mean, I thought there wasn’t a bigger modern playoff choker than Verlander, but Votto is probably that. 1 xbh, no rbi as your best hitter/run producer?
The stench!
Baron: inaccurate in what, exactly? If you have a point to make, make it. So far that has not been the case. Empty comment. Make a point.
I made my point. I can’t help it if you’re too stubborn to listen or thick to understand.
It’s a little bit of both. HoF voters will look at Votto’s peak seasons from ’07 to ’18 where his OPS+ is 155 – which is excellent. For reference, Mike Trout’s career OPS+ is 173. Votto also played great defense. His counting stats aren’t the strongest but HoF voters have in recent years lowered the statistical bar for HoF entry to match the modern game. I don’t think Votto continuing to play will hurt his case and can only help. He’ll get in eventually after a few years on the ballot depending on who else is eligible.
Andrew Jones on Line One!
I thought about Andruw Jones, but I am surprised to see he has fewer than 2000 hits. Although Votto doesn’t have that much more hits, but over 2000.
Jones has far more gold gloves and a better defensive reputation at a much more demanding position, and he won a World Series.
It is silly for the other commenter to act as if Votto’s case is a slam dunk.
I wouldn’t say Votto is a slam dunk. But there’s another factor for you to take into consideration. After Miguel Cabrera retires this year, if Votto waits another year before officially retiring, he’s going to have some fairly weak competition his first couple years of being eligible. After Cabrera, there’s not really a whole lot of sure fire slam dunks that will be retiring in the next few years.
Especially on the hitter side. Overall, people who’re going to give him the most competition after Cabrera that’ll likely retire within the next few years are Verlander and Scherzer, who thus far both seem like they may be playing 2 or 3 more years.
But right now if he waited that extra year, his biggest competition would likely be a lot of other fringe players who he’d still likely just get the votes over.
I woundnt call him a lock, but I’d still say he’s got good odds, especially if he waits one more year so that he isn’t going to be eligible for the first year alongside someone like Miguel Cabrera who’s going in first ballot for sure. But aside from those who’ve retired the past couple years who are first ballot, and Miguel Cabrera this year, retiring after next season will put him in a window where the field isn’t going to have that fierce of competition.
How much longer do you think Goldschmidt will play? He’s got a decent case.
> Goldschmidt … got a decent case.
Of getting into the Hall of Fame?
5 more years at 160 hits / 30 HR averages get him to 2700 hits and 490 HR for his career.
Career OPS+ is 143 and a .907 OPS.
61.7 bWAR / 57.4 fWAR (a little low so far)
4 GG
5 SS
1 MVP (2 seconds and 1 third finish, too)
0 WS Rings
I think he’s in with a few more (~3) good not great seasons.
You cannot forget that Jones started young, but he also fell off a lot younger than most HOF players. He was basically a shell of himself by the age of 30. With Jones the big question is were his 20s strong enough to negate his rapid decline at a relatively young age. I don’t have a problem with him making the HOF, but he is clearly not an automatic selection either. Offensively, he is about like Mattingly but not as good. If he gets in at all, it will be primarily for his defense.
Who retires this year:
Miguel Cabrera
Adam Wainwright
Brandon Crawford
Zack Greinke?
Kershaw could be on the list also, but I think he will be back for another year. Evan Longoria and Rich Hill seem like strong possibilities as well. Depending on Votto and Andrew McCutchen (who I think will be back), 2028 is starting to look like a pretty strong HOF ballot for first time candidates,
Please, bloody hell get the guy in there. Andruw Jones was arguably the greatest defensive PLAYER of his generation, regardless of position.. And was a consistent all star offensive threat year after year, a 50 home run guy at one point. It’s almost infuriating to me that he’s still dragging ass on the ballot
Just- Ask Willie Mays about that.
jb
Neither
Keep playing because you want to and a team wants to pay you to do it
Votto is probably in if he retires today. His stats are already better than the average for 1B already in the HOF.
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_1B.shtml
Or he could join Adam Wainwright in sticking around too long to TRY and pad his HOF resume and still come up short.
Joey Votto will have a plethora of opportunities next year, just not on the field.
Wainwright hit the most important milestone he could with his 200th win. Not sure how he “failed” to add to his resume.
Take a deep breath guys!! Some one is going to have a stroke over Votto…
Please stay! I need at least one position player on my “All Older Than Me Team.” Hopefully South Korea and Japan have some hitters born after April 1984.
Rich Hill should take care of that.
There are a few pitchers older than me. Votto might be the only position player.
The only player older than me that wasn’t officially retired signed a one-day contract a couple weeks ago to officially retire as a Met, so with Big Sexy’s career being over no one fits into that category.
There are two days that are very sad for a baseball fan. The first is the first time someone your age makes the major leagues because you always think that it could/should have been you. The second is when the last person older than you retires because that is officially the last day you can operate under the delusion that you might one day make the majors.
Hiflew- Seems like you are a former ball player who takes the last line in Ball Four very seriously.
Good for you.
You can always stay young.
I was born the day the Mets lost the 1973 World Series to Reggie Jackson’s A’s, so Bartolo’s official retirement as a Met ended the career of the only player left in that category.
Separately, the pattern from my lifetime is a rough one as a Mets’ fan. They won the WS 13 years later. Then their next appearance was 14 years after that. Then that was followed by an appearance 15 years after that. At this rate, the next time they’d be scheduled to make it is in 2031.
@truthlemonade: That won’t last. Just a matter of time.
“That won’t last. Just a matter of time.”
Signed,
Life
wRC+ of 98 means he’s slightly below replacement level so why not take another shot. Go play for the new Vegas A’s or even the Angels. Those teams aren’t planning to win anything so it wouldn’t matter if he wasn’t good.
Slightly below league average as a hitter, which is different than a replacement level hitter.
It would be nice to see him back, but his numbers the last two years says he’s probably best moving on. Of course, I would have said the same about Pujols heading into his final year!
@LordD99
Thank you for correcting me.
He was hurt in 22 and wasn’t fully recovered this season so those numbers aren’t representative of his ability. HOWEVER, he’s going to be 40 and Father Time is undefeated. I think he’s probably good for 105-110 OPS+ if he plays next year, especially if he is a part-time player but I won’t put money on it.
Or just take his $7 million buyout, relax, and enjoy. Why go play for a non-contender in a different part of the country?
think he’s got one more year in him to play
Only he can know that. You have no clue.
For the Reds it isn’t truly a $20 mil decisions but rather a $13 mil decision. At that amount, if you believe his decline was injury based (and who better to know but the Reds staff) then is $13 mil really a bad investment for a DH / 1b backup / leader / fan draw / merch sales?
So it isn’t so obvious because it isn’t 20 mil which would be obvious.
Also, he was basically league average while injuries were a part.
A lot of below league average guys in the league that don’t bring what Votto brings to the table.
Do you think there will be a difference in merchandise sales if he’s playing as compared to retired? That’s a reach. Pujols was different. He came back home after a 10 absence.
I like slash stats better than counting stats. I hope Votto retires because he is lowering his slash stats every year he plays.
Cards I get that you hold Pujols in the highest regard and well, he deserves it. That said, Votto is to this generation of Reds fans what Pujols was to Cards fans. This has nothing to do with comparing Pujols career to Votto. Just that Reds fans revere the guy – for good reasons. His products sell. A lot of Votto Jerseys in the stadium – even when crowds were small.
All the Reds fans can vote on this if they like.
I live about 3 hours away so I have some frame of reference even though I haven’t been a Reds “fan” since the 70’s I have a tendency to see a few games here and there when my team is in town.
Reds will decline his option 100% but that doesn’t preclude them from bringing him back. I think $13M is reasonable when your consider everything you said, considering their paltry payroll, but if he’s back it would be for probably half of that $13M.
I meant that Votto merchandise would sell briskly whether he retires or not. My point about Pujols is that his merchandise sales surged because it had dropped to almost nothing during his ten year absence.
For the Reds and their limited budget, $13MM is a veteran starting pitcher. They got 1B covered.
I think the biggest issue right now is not money, but Votto’s repaired shoulder. I believe he wants to come back, but he’s not sure if he can at the level he wants. He held off on coming back early in the season because his shoulder wasn’t ready. He also had to take time off late in the season because of his shoulder. He didn’t look nearly as good second time around. He had a .231 ISO and it was .270 before the second IL stint.
I think maybe he should work on conditioning his shoulder in preparation for 2024. Then he will know if he thinks he can come back. The Reds could then bring him back for a modest some ($3-5m on top of the $7m buyout). He could DH and play 1st when Christian Encarnacion-Strand isn’t. I think Spencer Steer might go into 2024 as the primary LF.
Anything can ultimately be agreed upon between two sides but the timing is tricky. The Reds can’t decline and just sit and wait tk see for ST / recovery and then plan get him for 3 mil more. At that point he has their 7 mil and if his market value is say, 7 mil then that is what they will expect to pay.
Votto holds the leverage at that point knowing his shoulder is good to go.
Now, they could jointly roll the dice and sit down at time of option and work out a 10-12 mil deal in a few weeks with both sides accepting the risk/reward.
An assumption would be fair that both sides might entertain that deal due to history and circumstances being what they are.
I think you nailed it. That was a devastating injury that quite frankly, many thought he would not recover fully from at 39-40 years old. So much respect for that part, but he didn’t perform up to his standards and that is the hesitation, I’m sure.
Then there is the fact that the numbers are such that he will have a part time role. There are just too mamy infielders to go around. Does he want to settle for that?
It will be interesting to see what both the team and Votto decides.
@Cincyfan I think this is spot on. If Votto thinks he can perform, he and the Reds will work something out. Based on all his past statements, Votto’s not likely to sign with any other team, while the Reds can definitely use his left-handed bat in their lineup even at his 2023 level of output. They’ll probably decline Votto’s option but with an agreement that he’ll be joining them for Spring Training to allow him to make his own assessment then.
A pro-rated contract with opt-out dates would be ideal. He can take his time during ST or in-season. If the Reds develop other plans, he can walk out and sign elsewhere.
I’ve thought a Roger Clemens-type deal like he had with Houston at the end would be a good deal. Let him take it easy in the spring and work on strengthening and flexibility then come back around mid-season or so. Few weeks in minors to get running back
I mean, he’s getting the 7 million regardless. They’re obviously going to decline. The bigger question is whether they’ll give him a few million extra in the offseason to bring him back should he decide he wants to play.
But I think it’s an obvious decline in his option. The Reds love to shed payroll. That much anyone knows. They’ll delis us it with him, tell him they’re declining. And either tell him the doors open to come back on a smaller guarantee or just move on. But I’d say there’s basically zero chance they pick up that option.
Problem is offering Votto $10-12M would maybe better spent on a SP? Difference between a good and great pitcher ?
If you offer 10 it is really only 3 though due to the 7 payout. Not that your point isn’t valid because a few mil going to a better SP is always a good idea in and of itself.
No, if they decline the option, they pay him the $7MM. Now the new contract for next year has to be agreed on. If they agree on $3MM, it’s 3MM. If they agree on $10MM, it’s $10MM.
Styme – but if the agree on 10 before they decline then it’s just plain ole 10.
That is what I was describing as an option of both sides wanted to give 2024 a chance without having to wait and see what happens in ST where a successful ST might cause it to be 10 then. A bad ST might cause it to be 0 then
I really believe he’ll go ahead and retire this year as a Cincinnati Red. As for what he’ll pursue post retirement is likely as a hitting coach because he’s always been aware of what the strike zone is, flat out with some of the All time hitters. He’ll want to stick around and help develop the talent of players like De La Cruze and Encarnicion-Strand. He won’t want to take a spot on the 40 man roster and block one of the young studs the Reds have in their pipeline. He’s been a Red his entire career and wants to retire as a Red.He may also give calling the game a shot, ala Welsh, Brantley and Larkin. He gets enjoyment from being around the game and contributing to the team. Whatever he does or doesn’t do,it won’t be for any other team but the Reds, but that’s just my opinion from observing him from where his on the field antics and interviews he’s given along with his starting engagement on social media that’s only began over the last few years. Whatever he does, he’ll definitely get into the Reds HOF and probably the Canadian HOF. The MLB HOF is another thing entirely and something to be arguing about 5 years from now. However it shakes out, there’s no argument about his value to the Reds and whether he can continue doing that at a high value is a subjective argument for the Reds management & the Castalinnis to decide. I’ll leave it at that and post my 2 cents.
Reds payroll with their current roster will be around $50M counting Joey’s buyout. They have plenty of money to sign a starter, relievers, Votto, and STILL be well below a $100M payroll
Why do these over the hill farts keep playing do they need the money so badly ?
They really love their jobs.
Votto will have made over $260 million by getting extra walks.
Right? Why don’t they retire at 35 like the rest of us? Who wants to keep making money and have something to leave to their family.
But no seriously, that’s a dumb question. I mean, once their playing career is done with, they’re not going to make anywhere near that much unless they’re an athlete of legendary proportions like Michael Jordan who will have endorsements for life.
Most other athletes post playing careers are in managing, as a sports analyst, or just making appearances at events, none of which compare to what they make per season.
They’ll play until they don’t want to any longer or until they can’t find a contract.
Who wants to keep making money and have something to leave to their family.
=============================
While I am glad his kids won’t go hungry, he should have well north of $130M in his account. Will an extra $3-4M, on top of the $7M buy-out, make any difference?
A few things: No company owes any person a job. The Reds are well within their rights to thank Votto for his services, decline the option and move on, making it absolutely clear to him they do not need his services anymore and he has been fully compensated already. So, if they pick up the option or re-sign him on top of the buyout, they determined that he was as valuable or more valuable than what they’ll be paying him to play in the 2024 season.
To put it very simply: If you own and operate a major league baseball franchise, you can afford to pay players any salary within range of the standard salaries. Any player you are paying a certain amount to, when you agreed to pay them that amount, you are theoretically betting on getting more value than what you are paying them and in a less ideal scenario, you are simply getting equal value for their performance.
Also, for Votto’s purposes, the way rich people stay rich is by continually making money.
There is also something psychologically more effective for feeling happiness, fulfillment, a sense of purpose, a sense of being valued and valuable and useful and productive, etc. connected to continually earning money year over year and earning at a level that represents commensurate value or veteran status value, even if you don’t need the money.
A lot of people in a variety of industries continue to work for a substantial salary beyond what they need to earn, because they want to work and because they want to feel like their work as an established veteran who is literally valuable as a worker in their field, is being properly compensated.
For instance- someone could survive on a $75k a year salary, but the job they do represents $200k in value, so why shouldn’t they be want to be paid that $200k, even if they could survive on $75k?
A lot of players continue to play for nominal salaries after their Big Contract runs out because they don’t really need the money anymore, but they also don’t want to work as a charitable effort. Nobody should be in a business to work for free or to save their employer money- and in some cases if they bounce back from a low point of productivity and represent similar value to their old contracts, they negotiate a new price for the next season representing the value they created the year(s) they were being paid much less.
So a guy finishes a 5 year/$80M contract after also earning $11M between draft bonus, league minimums and arbitration and he’s seemingly on the downslope after 13 years playing ball from his first minor league season to now. He’s been very very frugal, he’s still got $34 million in cash from his various contracts, maybe he even has very lucrative investments that have grown over the past 12+ years and put his net worth at $100 million.
He signs for 1 year/$1M because he just wants to keep playing, but he doesn’t need the money- at all. He over performs. He generates 6 WAR and proves to be durable- total bounce back. 6 WAR players tend to earn around $20-$30M or more on the open market. Why shouldn’t this hypothetical player re-sign for 1 year/$25M, then? Who cares how much money he’s already made or has? He provided a particular value for his industry, there’s industry standard salaries commensurate with the various values of its workers (players) and he wants to be paid fairly for his performance.
In Votto’s case, he’s essentially being paid $32 million for the 2023 season and if he were to be re-signed to play again in 2024, he’s below replacement level and an assumptive bounce back would probably only be worth 1.0 WAR at most, so he should probably only play for the league minimum or a token $1M if he’s serious about wanting to continue to play and at that price point, he is pure upside- his only real value proposition risk is wasting a roster spot on him if they’ve got a stud blocked in the minors or they could have gone and signed a free agent or made an upside trade for that roster spot- if they couldn’t make an upside trade, if they don’t have a stud waiting in the minors and they don’t want to sign a long term free agent to replace Votto, the minimum deal they’d make with him would have surplus value to the Reds.
Are the Reds prevented from resigning him if they buy him out?
They can resign him after the buyout.
Phenom – not at all. They just lose some leverage after already paying him 7 mil. If they do a new deal up front they can maybe hope the carrot of a few mil more gets a 1 year deal.
Just theoretical at this point.
They can re-sign him. But will it be worth it? They’ll have to weigh the amount of money his name brings to ticket sales and merch versus how his performance affects the team. If the money can be shifted elsewhere to improve an area of need like pitching, they’ll move on from him. They’re better off offering a minor league deal with a spring training invite and an incentively-laden contract if he makes the team, but I doubt he takes it.
The Reds aren’t going to make him an offer which he declines. It’s like the A’s giving Miggy a bottle of $90 wine.
And it all depends on how his shoulder holds up.
I feel he’s going to want to go to a contender
Maybe replaces Belt in TOR on a 1yr/8-10 million deal
votto has not hit over .210 in last two seasons at age 40+ TOR would stick with belt for another year instead
Ds
Toronto wouldn’t make the decision based on his batting average
They probably wouldn’t look at his batting average
I think Joey Votto is giving the reds an out by saying he is sure if he will play next year. I think votto is a class act and that leaves the reds from having to decline a option on a red legend.
Vottos numbers the last two years tell us he should most likely call it a career. There are no major milestones within reach. With the reds becoming a play off type contender not sure that having a part time Joey Votto would make sense. The designated hitter saved a lot of careers but this is a situation where I think without the designated hitter you could have brought Votto back and counted one 1 pitch hit a game for a final run.
I think overall Votto should just call it a career
Two seasons under .210 – Reds looking like a playoff caliber team next season with plenty of youth….seems like the 40 year old smells playoff atmosphere and wants that last season to be memorable.
If Joey Votto plays in 2024, it’ll be for the Reds. He has been as loyal as anyone in the sport could be. He wasn’t interested in being traded during a rebuild in his mid-30s. The Reds aren’t going to bring him back for $20m. Everyone knows that. Everything comes down to the health of his shoulder. He can help the team win if he’s healthy. He’s not Miguel Cabrera bad (no offense). He had good power this season and a little bad luck when his shoulder did hold up.
Cincyfan
Loyal? Votto has been paid $260 million.
Manny – they guy still qualifies and loyal and he has said so many times over the years.
Tony was loyal and got paid.
Getting paid doesn’t detract from true loyalty.
I disagree. Nothing unique to Votto here.
Loyalty is when you turn down a dumpload MORE money to stay with your team. No evidence of that.
I have no doubt Votto is a team player, but to say he is “loyal” when he received $260 million to stay with Reds is just silly.
Compare what Reds gave Votto to Brandon Phillips, why is one player more loyal?
The guy was the narrator for a spongebob theater production in cincinnati. Name me one pro baseball player who would do that for a city they didnt love/ were loyal to
Reds don’t pick up his option. Better off with the buyout and use the 40 man roster spot elsewhere. Still believe the Castellinis will want him back in 2024 for marketing purposes. Early spring MiLB contract with an invitation gives both parties chance for a look-see. Krall says give me the funds to sign Yamamoto and I’ll abide Votto as 13th man (parttime dh and lh pinch hitter) through next ASB. Then he’s on his own.
Most likely Joey Votto is in a Reds uniform come opening day 2024. Probably for a 3 game “Adios Joey” sendoff at GABP vs Nats..
Votto Loco.
Two seasons of poor results in a row. At 40 years old, doesn’t make much sense to try a comeback, better off retire in an almost good fashion.
Great carrer but its time to retire
Time to retire. If they needed him, they could probably pay him $10M to play 1st/DH, even with mediocre results. But a star player like Votto sitting on the bench all year is just sad.
Wouldn’t that be the Reds and his choice? Like Pujols, Nelson Cruz, and Rich Hill. The game will tell him when to retire if he chooses to keep playing. If MLB didn’t want those guys lingering at the tail end of their careers, promote prospects sooner.
If Votto retires I hope he replaces ARod and Michael Kay. There isn’t a worse announcer team than those two. I can see him being the Reds color commentator.
I hate having to watch games on mute bc of those two
Unfortunately they’re calling the Twins and Blue Jays series. I’m not a fan of either team but literally anyone is better than those two.
You really wonder who Kay and Arod know that force them both onto the fans. It clearly has absolutely nothing to do with their skill or popularity amongst fans. I can deal with Kay as long as he sticks to the game but Arod is insufferable.
Probably would’ve tuned into those games too but knowing that’s the duo and I’m not even going to bother.
Michael Kay and his Mr. Met sized head is unbearable
IMO, there’s no worse announcing team in any sport than Cris Colinsworth with anyone else calling a football game.
He never shuts up.
Or how about Suzyn Waldman “RAWGA CLEMINS IS IN GAWG STYNBRENNAHS BAWX!”
Sorry, I think Colinsworth is even worse!
I grew up a Jets fan so it’s hard for me to watch the NFL sometimes.
Don’t known who that is but I’m guessing she has a very thick bawston accent. Lmao
She is from Boston and partners with John Sterling on Yankees radio.
Hall of Famer IMO
Joey Votto is not as good as Jeff Bagwell or Todd Helton in my opinion. But he is not far away from them either. At the very least, he is not BETTER than those two. Bagwell took 7 ballots to get in. Helton seems likely to get elected on his 6th ballot. If Votto gets in at all, it will probably be after quite a long wait on the ballot.
Bagwell and Helton were on crowded ballots with PED users. Votto can time his official retirement to get 45%+ first-time votes and it’ll just be a matter of time. If he chooses to retire, he’ll be up against Miggy (a shoo-in) on the ballot.
Yeah the one upside for fringe guys is that after Miggy, it’ll be quite a while before another hitter with 3000 hits will appear on the ballot. Miggy was over 1000 ahead of 2nd place in career active hits, so ballots after 2028 for at least 4-5 years will not have any automatic guys. That will probably help guys like Votto and McCutchen and Longoria along with possible holdovers like Bobby Abreu and Torii Hunter and Jimmy Rollins. I think it is possible that none of them will get in, but it is also possible for one or more of them to just get a little momentum going when the ballot is not particularly strong.
Hopefully all the HOF voters who care about 3000+ hits will no longer be voting by the time votto is up for the HOF. Hits+walks? Thats more like it
We can call the stat WITS. How perfect is that?
Reds have several 1B/DH options and are not going to pay Votto $20 million for what used to be. If he wants to play in Cincinnati in ’24 it’s going to have to be at a massive discount (if he wants to play anywhere in ’24 it’s going to have to be at a massive discount)
He gets seven million for not playing. So the massive discount will be north of seven million and south of 20.
They wouldn’t be paying him $20 million to pick up the option, they would be paying $13 million to pick up his option because he is already guaranteed $7 million no matter what. The Rockies just re-signed Charlie Blackmon for $13 million. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the Reds would do the same for Votto. They’d make that much back on ticket sales for a retirement tour more than likely.
4th generation Reds fan here…
Votto deeply wants to finish his career with a leadership/on-field contributor role on a playoff team – he and the Reds have a chance to be that. The Buyout will happen then Joey signs back up for a last run (or current contract is restructured)…
Bauer was railroaded no doubt about it.
Like him or not he’s a quality arm. High quality.
It’s mlb fans who also got screwed by not being able to watch him pitch in his prime.
There are no winners here.
The extortionist should be charged.
Here we had a similar case Jon Ghomeshi, exonerated at trial when setup texts were discovered. Google it.
There’s whiners here who keep bringing up Bauer in threads that have nothing to do with him.
That was a personal attack, so you automatically lose the argument. Sorry.
If you would like to re-offer your side without the ad hominem attack then you might still convince me, but otherwise…
Thanks for the discussion, and I’ll take my win and go home.
How many usernames/accounts do you have? If you’re one of the ones that keeps on bringing up Bauer (who is a loser himself) then I agree, you should go home.
One. How many did you think?
Seemed like you and edp007 were one and the same. Or are you talking about a different attack/win?
I have no idea who Edp007 is.
The attack I was responding to was posted by someone else and has somehow disappeared.
Joey Votto will make the hall of fame regardless. The question is does he want to play for another team besides the Reds?
A factor Votto may want to consider is that he is not good anymore.