Brewers manager Craig Counsell just wrapped up the final year of his contract in Milwaukee, prompting widespread speculation that he could depart his hometown team after nine years in the club’s dugout. Jon Heyman of the New York Post reported this evening that the Mets have “a reasonable chance” of prying Counsell away from his longtime team, though Heyman added that a source connected to the Brewers indicated that the organization believes he’ll remain with the team as long as he gets paid “what he believes is fair.”
Heyman adds that negotiations between Counsell and the Brewers have seemingly not yet progressed at this point, though as previously reported, Counsell won’t have the option to speak to other teams until November. While Counsell, who lives year-round with his family in the suburbs of Milwaukee, has strong ties to both the are and the Brewers organization, Heyman notes that the Mets have potential advantages in newly-hired president of baseball operations David Stearns and, perhaps more importantly, the reported ability to offer Counsell a significant raise; Heyman relays that a source suggested the Mets could offer Counsell double his 2023 salary with Milwaukee of $3.5MM.
A consensus top-tier manager in today’s game, Counsell would surely attract interest from other clubs if he was willing to depart Milwaukee; the Guardians, Giants, and Angels all have managerial openings of their own. Whether Counsell eventually ends up staying with the Brewers, headed to the Mets, or somewhere else entirely, Heyman notes the Mets are still proceeding with their managerial search in order to ensure they have options outside of Counsell.
More coaching notes from around the game…
- One candidate for the Mets Heyman floats is Astros manager Dusty Baker, though his connection of Baker and Queens appears to be purely speculative. That said, Heyman does suggest that Baker is “frustrated” over disputes with the front office regarding analytics. Baker’s decision to use Martin Maldonado as the club’s primary catcher rather than rookie Yainer Diaz as an example of a situation where GM Dana Brown’s front office has butted heads with the dugout. Baker, for his part, has managed in Houston for four seasons on a series of one-year pacts and was noncommittal regarding whether he planned to manage beyond 2023 when asked earlier this year. If the Astros do go in another direction for the manager’s chair after this season, Heyman speculates that bench coach and longtime managerial candidate Joe Espada would be a “logical replacement” for Baker in the Houston dugout.
- The Rays announced today that first base coach Chris Prieto and assistant hitting coach Dan DeMent will not return to the club’s coaching staff for the 2024 season. Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times adds that the Rays are expected to consider both internal and external candidates as they look to replace Prieto, though DeMent will not be replaced on the staff. Topkin notes that with hitting coach Chad Mottola and assistant hitting coach Brady North already in place, the Rays felt a third hitting coach “proved unwieldy.” The only other change in the club’s coaching staff Topkin relays as expected is the departure of process and analytics coach Jonathan Erlichman, who Topkin adds is moving to another position in the organization, though that position has not yet been disclosed.
Dusty is lucky the Astros are such a well run organization or he still would be without a ring.
Astros are lucky they hired Dusty. No one wanted to take that job especially after the cheating scandal. Tainted championship and a a management structure ravaged after they admitted cheating. Don’t forget your roots Houston.
It is touching to see there is still rent free housing for the Astros inside the heads of Dodgers fans.
Polish off that cute little 2020 Participation Trophy for me.
Oh yeah, you got swept by the Diamondbacks.
Who says no one wanted the Astros managerial position? That’s ridiculous
Considering the scandal at the time, it is understandable a lot of people didn’t want to step into that kind of fire, despite the revisionist history many like to employ these days.
Lol the Dodgers lost because they couldn’t hit their way out of a paper bag. Don’t make a narrative out of the “cheating” when the real reason was that they played like crap.
@Beff- There was exactly a 0 run differential in the 2017 World Series. It was 34-34 after 7 games. LA arguably had the more convincing wins. So if they “played like crap,” I guess Houston’s wins were crappier, they just got lucky to have one more crappy win.
You mean the organization did their part? Makes sense.
Dusty with the Mets would just be an older Buck Showalter
Come on out of the woodwork, Brewers fans, and tell us again why you’re sure Counsell won’t leave Milwaukee.
Are you blind? He said “Reasonable Chance” And then explained why it could also not happen but please Mets fans tell us why you deserve everyone you want.
Not everyone. Only those who wish to be here.
But smoke usually means fire.
>Come on out of the woodwork
I am here from the woodwork but I am not a Milwaukee fan so I’m not sure if I qualify as someone who can respond. If that’s ok then here are some reasons to consider:
Craig Counsell profile—
+53 years young
+Played 6 years for Milwaukee including his last 5 years
+Signed as a player with Milwaukee four times, so he picked them when he could have signed anywhere else
+Managed Milwaukee the past 9 years
+Played or Managed Milwaukee the past 14 years
+lives year-round with his family in the suburbs of Milwaukee
+(has strong ties to) the Milwaukee organization
Nothing in his career history suggests that he is open to, or considering, uprooting his family and moving to the New York area. It is simply media conjecture and he has no ties to the area.
David Stearns? Okay..
Your co-workers have left your job at some point. How often have you or any of the remaining co-workers said, “Oh, let’s follow him, move, and go work there, too!” Never.
It simply makes no sense. He likes where he works. He’s been successful. His family seems happy. Why change all of that for the unknown?
Anyway, that’s what I think.
But you don’t know his true, private thoughts and feelings.
And there’s still this inconvenient question. If all that is true, why hasn’t a new contract quietly and without drama been hammered out and signed by now?
There’s obviously more going on here than meets the eye.
Correct. We don’t know what he is thinking.
It has only been two weeks since Milwaukee was eliminated. So as far as a contract not getting finished yet, there are two scenarios—
(1) He is taking a well-deserved break to recover from the season and clear his head before discussing a new contract with Milwaukee
OR
(2) He is waiting to interview with other teams
He may simply want to interview with a team like the Mets to hear what they have to say. There could be things he dislikes in Milwaukee that he wants to change but cannot. Or he could be content with his life and what Milwaukee offers him and his family.
@Hemlock Those are all good points. I think the counter points to consider are does he think he has a better chance to win sticking with David Stearns in NY and how much does a higher paycheck mean to him? I doubt Milwaukee will be able to justify 7 million for the manager, no matter how good he is. I truly hope he stays, but I could see it going either way.
Agreed. He may feel that this Brewers team has plateaued or that he has gotten all that he can from them. Woodruff is out for a year, Burnes may be gone soon, Hader traded away, … those are big transition points for the team.
Anyway, I hope he stays, too. Baseball needs teams like Milwaukee to be competitive. They have good players that are coming through the minors now—they will need a good manager to help them develop.
@Hemlock: Why would Counsell leaving prevent the Brewers from being competitive?
Injuries to players like Woodruff and the owners’ cheapness have a lot more to do with it.
I did not comment that Counsell leaving would prevent the Brewers from being competitive. I was implying that it cannot help with that overall goal. Things add up quickly to cause failure in MLB—injuries, failure to sign or extend your players, staff leaving. Understand?
Nobody needs your condescending tone.
Understand?
My apologies if you saw it that way. I was not trying to be condescending to you.
Thank you.
Counsell’s kids are in college. One at Minnesota, the youngest at Michigan. His father John, and I would guess mother Jan, now lives in Ft Myers Florida.
There is nothing holding Craig in Milwaukee. If the Mets will double his salary and give him a chance to manage a team with basically no salary constraints and a legitimate shot at WS most years the question is really why wouldn’t he leave.
@Hemlock- “Your co-workers have left your job at some point. How often have you or any of the remaining co-workers said, “Oh, let’s follow him, move, and go work there, too!” Never”
Right because this never happens in pro sports. Oh, wait…
We aren’t pro athletes, we don’t change employers multiple times a year in some cases or sign a series of one year contracts where we negotiate our salary, we don’t auction our services to the highest bidder every time our contract is up to move halfway across the country. Comparing people with everyday jobs to those in the entertainment and sports industry is foolhardy. It’s not even apples to oranges, it’s like apples to broccoli.
I’m not saying I expect Counsell leaves and he very well may not value the highest bidder over everything, but it’s very possible that’s all New York needs to do to procure his services and it shouldn’t surprise anyone if they do.
> We aren’t pro athletes,
Managers aren’t pro athletes, either.
They might have been at one point but they are older now. Injuries, health issues, etc, making moving around more of an issue. Yes they travel with the team but relocating your life may not be as easy as it once was, regardless of what your children are doing. Home is still home. Anyway, my point is that there is probably a lot more that goes into these decisions beyond getting up and going.
The guy literally said nearly exactly what I said the other day, it’s a power/money thing getting worked out, owners using Craig to make money and he wants bigger cut, simple….. and I’m sure ownership knows they must pay him..
-Quality journalism
-New York Post
Pick one
True lol
The New York Post is unreliable and unbelievable, just like the rest of the USA’s biased, one sided Hollywood MSM.
QAnon Shaman, is that you?
No. I just have eyes, common sense and a brain. Do you?
Don’t get your knickers in a twist, QAS.
@mlb fan: Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
The Post is right-leaning and supports Trump. That is unbelievable. But does that also make it unreliable?
Poll the players on every MLB 40-man roster, and I’m guessing more than 75% are voting red in 24’. TDS is stronger than the vid with white lib, much like a brain herp.
How is your wishful thinking relevant to anything discussed on here?
It is just Heyman who is unreliable. Has nothing to do with political wet dreams.
But mlb fan was talking about the Post and political bias, not about Heyman.
But Heyman knows a lot more than you, me, and anyone else commenting on here.
What’s hilariously ironic is that the NYP leans right. So yeah, keep up with your nonsense.
Also it’s Jon Heyman saying that
“Has strong ties both the are”. Needs to be corrected
“Has strong ties both the are” needs to be corrected
That only needs to be posted once to make the point.
If the Brewers let Counsell get away, they are totally nuts. Period.
What do you consider letting him get away?
If he chooses to step away for family/personal reasons?
If he decides the possibility of having more than 5 actual mlb caliber players, and financial flexibility to spend more to build/retain a quality team is an attractive proposition?
If he can get paid 1.5-2 times his current salary-which is more in line with what an annual manager of the year finalist should be paid?
If he’d rather go where a quick turnaround is much more possible than a team on the brink (potentially) of starting a lengthy rebuild?
I’ve said before according to Mark A, if it was solely up to him he’d have locked Counsell up already for a long time. I don’t think it’s a matter of letting him get away. It’s a matter of CC having 1 foot out the door, and convincing him to come back.
What makes u think the crew are undergoing a “major rebuild” they have a top farm with major league talent ready with more top players like Churio who’s obviously a top guy and Gasser who won PCL pitcher of the year 2023, still have Devin, Uribe is a freaking star and Misiorowski might be the best of them…. And not losing anyone this off season without getting compensation so not sure if I “misunderstood” your comment but if u think the Crew are anywhere close to undergoing a legit “rebuild” that ends up taking a while, well they would have to start making some crazy moves which they’ve proven extensively now they’re adept at mitigating however if you are still somehow finding yourself thinking they’re on the verge of an extended rebuild I’d like to hear about it ha
I did say potentially. But I’ll try and clarify.
1. Counsell may not be back. Who’s going to replace him, and be comparable?
2. Burnes, IMO, is at best 50/50 to be back for his pre-FA season. If traded, do you expect whatever package they get back to provide similar production/ability to help us win over the next 1-2 years?
3. Woodruff may not pitch at all next year. Who takes his spot?
4. Miley has a mutual option-how many times do both sides pick that up, OR agree to a new deal?
5. Adames should be moved. Another player with 1 year til FA. Why keep him? And, he’s not bringing much back in trade.
6. 1st base is a hole. Unless they re-up Santana, who steps in? Please don’t name the usual suspects like tellez, Vogelbach, or similar type guys.
7. 3rd base is a question mark. Is Monestario the answer?
8. Will Ashby be back/healthy/good?
9. Who’s the backup catcher? Aside from pitchers seeming to like Caratini behind the plate, is there any question Contreras benefitted from not catching 90% of the time?
They’re potentially going forward without 2 of their top 3 starters (let’s not argue the order), Miley (probably), Lauer (who wasn’t that good in ’23 anyway), Houser (maybe), and the unknown of Ashby (plus Rea who was at least serviceable as a fill-in), and I’m probably forgetting someone.
1st, 3rd and possibly SS are question marks.
Is Turang going to improve with the bat?
Will Frelick, Weimer, Mitchell develop and be healthy?
And, as we all know prospects don’t always pan out. And even if they do, it rarely happens overnight.
So yeah, I’d say there’s a real possibility they’ll be entering a rebuild. At least a reset, where ’24 is a step back.
They have big time bats that have all raked as they’ve ascended the minor league ladder who will be on track (if they continue their current trends) to make impactful debuts sometime from mid ‘24 on, Quero (Catcher) is a potential fit at catcher however I think they’re more likely to bring someone in and if Quero forces their hand later in the season they’ll be all for it, but Black/Churio are offensive players the Crew haven’t had in the upper minors since Fielder/Braun, in ‘23 between AA/AAA Black hit .284 with a .417ob% 23hr 55sb and a .930 Ops in 450abs, career .880 Ops in minors and we’ve all heard Churio is the best yet, Frelick looked really good at times and so did Mitchell its Joey I’m worried about, perhaps they package adames/houser, that’s going to get you a nice haul of controllable talent, perhaps they package Burnes/adames or Burnes/houser any of which is going to really net u a slew of talented players ready for their “shot” and the crew have proven recently they can identify/develop pitching and is Abner Uribe and his 102Mph heavy Sinker ever going to be mentioned by anyone who essentially are saying the crew will struggle at best/won’t compete, what about his nearly 40ip and sub 1.50ERA, maybe it’s all u Crew haters really don’t know what you’re talking about regarding the brewers and perhaps just accept that/leave it at that, between Uribe/Misiorowski the Crew already have pitchers at a level most wouldn’t have developed in ten years, how about Gasser the PCL pitcher of the year in AAA, also that Josh Hader trade isn’t oooking so bad now is it? When is that ever going to be acknowledged? I was so happy with that deal just for the simple fact we wouldn’t lose Hader for nothing like fielder all over again, how freaking stupid do u have to be to not do that deal and again they’ve turned it into Contreras, Gasser and some solid BP arms, word is they view Misiorowski as a front end starter long term but I really think they’ll just bust him into the majors as a reliever like they did Burnes/Ashby to get him experience but also towards the second half of next season to save him arm/limit innings, are there questions, well of course but the Crew are in a better position even without the money than the Cubs/Cardinals and I mean the reds/pirates have some pitching they need to develop or dump a few tractor trailer loads of cash into before they can really be competitive beyond a second WC team, I may be a homer but facts are facts, bring back Miley/Santana well there’s a few more WAR….. btw Turang can’t really not improve offensively because wasn’t he nearly historically bad, I mean for stretches it seemed like he must’ve at least been close, but he was never really one of the TOP guys, a first round pick with a good year at AAA and rather consistent development the Crew were hoping to build/continue on and he did defensively so now it’s fingers crossed offensively but at minimum he has that beautiful left handed swing that when he makes good contact looks literally perfect but again at minimum he’s a plus plus speed/defensive replacement/platoon guy but he was never a real hyped top prospect anyway, yeah theres a lot of change, if there wasn’t they wouldn’t improve but I’m just here to point out it’s not all doom/gloom in WI for baseball (I’m hoping not football either but that’s a wait/see) until brewers pitching prospects start to flop one after another im going to have some (well placed) belief they’ll be able to get the most out of these guys, now again it’s time for them to develop more offense but that looks like if it’s ever going to happen it’s about to now, also moving off Burnes/adames helps them lock up Contreras and a few other of these young guys like Uribe, they already have Ashby/Peralta long term that’s a fantastic starting spot for a rotation in “flux” if u will…..
I can’t see Counsell wanting to go manage that dumpster fire. He’s already got a very competitive team in Milwaukee that was in the playoffs this year. The Mets still look centuries away from even being a wild card team.
But money talks and BS walks.
And they were a wild card team just last year.
The Mets won 101 games in 2022. They struggled this year after losing Diaz and both Scherzer and Verlander having injuries and struggling to pitch at a high level.
That is NOT a bad Mets team.
I believe if Counsell had such ties to Brewers there would be negotiations going on right now, this team won’t pay big bucks for players and you think they will dish out 7-8 million per year for a manager? I think Consell is tired of trying to manage a team on the cheap shoestring budget the owner places on team each year. I think some team with more flexibility will pry him away from Milwaukee, just hope they don’t name his assistant to replace him, would be time for a new way of thinking in that dugout if this happens, Stearns isn’t stupid he left probably for same reason and he will convince Counsell to follow him with the greatest chance to win a W.S in New York.
This is all playing out until after the W.S so as not to overshadow that series, MLB would be very unhappy if this gets done before then, This speculation will go on until after then, but I got a feeling he is gone. At least for a year to mess up Mets to spend time with family.
I watch the Brewers more than any other team and I find it hard to believe that Counsell would leave. He is going to play hardball as he should to get a significant raise so I think he will let the rumors of Stearns and retirement keep going as he should to maintain leverage.
But he’s from the area, it’s his dream job, and his sons are playing college ball in the midwest (Minnesota/Michigan). As long as the Brewers give him a raise, and they’d be crazy not to, he’s going to stay in Milwaukee.
Then why hasn’t he re-signed by now?
@blue-why does he need to? If he’s under contract until the WS ends, he has no reason to do anything right now. He has the leverage of knowing MKE wants him back. He’s probably content with walking away if they don’t pony up the dough, or going back to a front office/advisory role like he held before moving to the dugout (and he won’t have to travel so much).
But how do you know he wouldn’t prefer to manage and hopefully win in a bigger market where he can possibly make more money and enhance his chances for honors like making it into the hall of fame?
It’s pretty clear in my post why I think he hasn’t signed yet…leverage.
You can strike CLE off that list of possibilities if Counsell is looking to be paid what’s fair. Guards have narrowed their focus to just candidates willing to work for food, and we’re not talking surf & turf.
Counsell isn’t managing anywhere in 2024
Dusty’s decisions are puzzling. He loves sitting hot bats.
I have been shocked by his decisions most of the season. He did well to navigate all the injuries, but him not making Diaz and Chas, as well as him putting Abreu cleanup/fifth for most of the season, the starters 90% of the time kept them from clinching a week earlier. I felt like I was watching Bo Porter or Brad Mills again.
If the Astros don’t bring Dusty back, how about getting crazy and interviewing Alyssa Nakken? Bring in Kim Ng to be part of the front office.
I truly hope they do not bring him back.
Maybe Eric Chavez should be considered, he knows the game and New York well, he learned from Buck ( bench coach) a couple of solid years of managing, I don’t know how he feels about analytics; That is if Stearns doesn’t bring Counsel with him.
Didn’t rad through the thread, so someone may have already covered these points.
If the Mets are willing to pay Counsell $7 million per season as has been suggested, then he would make as much in the next 3 years as he has made in the last 9 as a Brewers manager and as much as he made in 16 years as a player.
Both of his boys are out of the house. Brady at the University of Minnesota where he will be pursuing an MBA and Jack just started this school year at the University of Michigan. His girls Finley and Rowan are younger and still in grade school.
His father John, who used to work for the Brewers, now lives in Ft. Myers Florida.
I still think that Counsell will sign back with the Brewers for at least another 3 years, but its not a certainty as it once was.
Dear god, please split up this mountainous sentence:
“While Counsell, who lives year-round with his family in the suburbs of Milwaukee, has strong ties to both the are and the Brewers organization, Heyman notes that the Mets have potential advantages in newly-hired president of baseball operations David Stearns and, perhaps more importantly, the reported ability to offer Counsell a significant raise; Heyman relays that a source suggested the Mets could offer Counsell double his 2023 salary with Milwaukee of $3.5MM.”
Also, commas shouldn’t go AFTER “and” in that situation. It either goes before or there isn’t one at all.