Andrew McCutchen’s Pittsburgh homecoming was the feel-good story of the year for Pirates fans, and while it ended on a sour note — McCutchen suffered a partial Achilles tear last week, ending his season — there’s mutual interest in a 2024 reunion. General manager Ben Cherington told Pirates beat writers yesterday that the team and McCutchen will meet in the offseason to discuss further extending the relationship (link via Kevin Gorman of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review).
“We believe that the injury he’s recovering from right now should not get in the way of him being a good baseball player next year and being someone who can help us, and we’ve agreed that we’ll pick that conversation up when the season is over,” Cherington said before adding that he’s hopeful the Pirates can enjoy “a lot more good moments out there with him.”
Now 36 years old, McCutchen returned to his original organization on a one-year, $5MM deal over the winter. The former NL MVP was the 11th overall draft pick by the Pirates back in 2005 and starred with Pittsburgh from 2009-17, leading the charge as the Bucs reached the postseason each year from 2013-15.
McCutchen was given a hero’s welcome upon returning to Pittsburgh and said both at the time of his signing and a couple months into the season that he had no desire to play anywhere other than Pittsburgh. “I don’t want to continue my career on another team,” McCutchen told Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette back on May 26. The Bucs honored those wishes, holding McCutchen at the trade deadline even amid interest from other clubs and even as they shipped out players such as Rich Hill, Carlos Santana, Ji Man Choi and Rodolfo Castro.
It’s been a productive return to the scene of his big league debut for McCutchen. In 473 trips to the plate, the five-time All-Star batted .256/.378/.397 with a dozen home runs, 19 doubles and 11 stolen bases. He also tallied the 2000th hit of his excellent career this season, and had it not been for his injury, he’d likely have swatted his 300th homer. As it stands, he’s sitting on 299 big flies in his career. If he indeed returns next year for a 16th Major League season, he’ll quite likely become just the 159th member of that 300-homer club.
As far as the roster fit goes, there probably won’t be much outfield time to go around — although that was also the case in 2023, when he logged just 64 innings in the field. Bryan Reynolds is entrenched in left field, and Jack Suwinski figures to have center field locked down after hitting (as of this writing) 25 home runs. McCutchen hasn’t been a viable option in center field for years anyhow.
Right field is a bit more up in the air, but top catching prospect Henry Davis has logged considerable time there, and the Bucs also have some depth names like Canaan Smith-Njigba and Joshua Palacios on the 40-man roster at present. McCutchen could reprise his role as the team’s primary designated hitter, and he’d certainly be an option in the outfield on occasion, perhaps lining up in right field against left-handed opponents.
From a payroll vantage point, McCutchen shouldn’t be a problem even for the light-spending Bucs. A salary comparable to this year’s $5MM rate wouldn’t be a surprise, and the Pirates only have $17MM on the books in 2024 anyhow: Reynolds’ $10MM salary and the $7MM owed to third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes. Arbitration raises will boost that number a bit, but the Bucs only have four eligible players: Mitch Keller, Miguel Andujar, JT Brubaker and David Bednar. Andujar is a non-tender candidate. Brubaker will likely earn the same $2.275MM he did in 2023 after missing the year due to Tommy John surgery. Bednar is eligible for only the first time. Keller stands to receive a healthy raise on this year’s $2.4375MM salary.
Even after accounting for those raises, the Pirates will probably only have around $30MM in total on the books — about $43MM less than the mark at which they opened the current season. That’d certainly leave ample room for spending, and if the improvements over the team’s 2022 record embolden owner Bob Nutting to increase payroll a bit, there could be a bit more in terms of available resources. A McCutchen reunion wouldn’t significantly cut into that payroll space, and it’s at least feasible that the Bucs could even be in on some mid-tier free agents (or perhaps acquire some controllable players who are entering or have entered their arbitration years).
For now, the focus will be on his recovery. It’s understandable if both team and player want to wait until there’s a better sense for how McCutchen will heal and recover before beginning to talk contract. But McCutchen’s message since day one back in Pittsburgh has been that he hopes to play out his career in black and gold, and Cherington’s latest comments only serve to reinforce the likelihood of that happening.
As they should, Cutch and Pittsburgh are like PB&J.
Cutch only played in the outfield minimally due to a recurring injury on his throwing elbow
I really don’t think he’s going to command a whole lot of money, so this should be an easy re-signing for the Pirates.
Cutch will return so that he can end his career on his terms after collecting his 300th home run.
Huge mistake, but that’s to be expected from such a foolish organization barely treading water.
What’s it like still living at home at your age?
Stop talking about yourself like that.
Not a mistake to re-sign. Offer him two million base salary plus one million for 200 at-bats and every 100 more there after. He should be a 5th outfielder, half-time or less time DH bench bat and mentor – on the cheap and fans win and he gets number 300
Offer him $2 million?
It wasn’t the GM that called Cutch last winter for a potential return to Pittsburgh, Cutch called the owner and said he wanted to come back to play for the Pirates
He told the owner he’d accept a hometown discount so I imagine he’ll sign for probably the same amount for 2023. They recognize the value he brings to the team.
He’s a mentor to the younger players and a positive influence in the clubhouse
Man3
My formula gets him the same next year as this year with 400 at bats. Five million. Or at least that was my intent. 2023 money in 2024 if he reaches 400 at bats. The injury is the only reason not to guarantee it all
It also lets him have an out if he wants shortly after 300 home runs.
I trust both sides can come up with something cheap but not insulting
Cutch wants to not only hit his 300tth career home run as a Pirate, he wants to help bring his team back into playoff contention so it’s not just about personal career stats
True – if he stays healthy enough.
Huge win. Performance should be worth more than salary. PR marketing definitely will be.
Slider without brains, signing a fan favorite who calls Pittsburgh his home and attracts thousands more to home games isn’t a mistake
I feel like at this point in Cutch’s career, its Pirates or retirement. He definitley has enough in the tank for at least one more year.
@mlb1225
it always felt off seeing cutch in any uniform but a pirates one. tbh until he is physically unable to play pit should just keep resigning him, he does a lot on and off the field for pit. and is a great ambassador of the game.
and blocks Henry Davis from being DH regularly.
I’m fine with this being the goodbye season , but Cutch has earned the right to another season if he wants it.
I just hope he’s ready for another long brutal season on a non-contender
Henry Davis has a strong arm for playing right field and should continue in that position
Other than a first baseman, they need to find a backup catcher who can hit higher than his weight and has some pop in his bat
Jason Delay, while being competent, isn’t the answer on a team that will be in year 4 of their latest rebuild
Delay is one of the better backup catchers in the league.Not too many 260 hitters there.
Davis needs to learn to play right field and hit a slider.Jury is still out on him,especially as the first pick in the draft.
In his defense they threw him a glove and said go play right field.He does have a sweet arm there.
Cutch is injury prone and hopefully he does not take time away from young players next year as older players go downhill quickly at his age.
I hope that they do non tender Andujar and he goes to a lesser team next year and gets solid playing time and hits 340.
Delay can’t hit his weight and they have enough batters whose average hovers around .200 and strikes out too often
His average has slowly dropped in each game he plays in. A month ago it was around .285 a month before that it was closer to .300
I am, however, disappointed that they don’t play Andujar more often. Connor Joe, whej Rivas is at first base, should be benched in favor of Andujar. Joe is currently in a lengthy slump, has been given opportunity after opportunity and yet Shelton not only continues to pencil his name into the lineup, he bats either 3rd or cleanup
Most teams use their run producers in those spots, Joe only has 38 RBIS, he’s hardly a run producer
Delay is 1 for his last 15 plate appearances with 9ks
I stand by my statement, they have enough players who swing and miss at pitches for outs on this team
I agree about his arm but have you really seen him play the OF? He makes Kyle Schwarber look like a gold glover,
Big fan of Cutch but I hate to see him take time from younger players.
Davis should be our primary DH since he cannot field RF adequately even with a good arm. The major leagues is not a place to learn especially if you plan on contending. Not given a chance to catch for some odd reason. He could be backup catcher and DH when not catching. Cutch could DH when Davis catches and also be our no. 1 pinch hitter.
Shelton pulls his lineups out of a hat so I agree that Davis should be sharing catcher duties with Endy but they’d rather use Delay as backup and Davis in right field
Regardless, these young hitters need to learn how to hit sliders and learn the strike zone
They all strike out far too often while never protecting the plate. It seems they don’t how to hit the ball in the opposite direction and more often than not, take a called third strike because the pitch isn’t right down the middle
Paul- For some reason Shelton hates Andujar and loves Joe.This is probably because BC signed Joe.Joe is not a good fielder in right field as his routes are not the best,and he absolutely cannot play first base.
It shows how stupid Shelton is by playing a guy who he absolutely knows what little he can do versus a guy that they have never given a chance to just because he is not home grown.
To some extent you are right about Delay inasmuch as your analysis would have been spot on last year,and he may be the same hitter over the last couple of months when his average has dropped.My guess is that he turns out to be about 230 hitter but that is at least average for a good fielding backup catcher.The Pirates have a lot more things to worry about.
And they should keep Davis in line to be the third catcher unless Shelton wants them to bring Van Meter back.
Joe, 2 for his last 16 plate appearances is in the #5 hole in tonight’s game, runners at 2nd and third with 1 out and pops out, he can’t even hit the ball far enough to drive in a run
Shelton bats a .235 hitter with 38 RBI in a run production order in the lineup when his numbers show he can’t
Scoring runs is one issue they should be worried about especially if they bring the same has beens like Joe back next year
By the way, Andujar took Cole to the wall in his first AB, an easy RBI that Joe couldn’t produce had Andujar been at the #5 spot
As you can probably tell, Im not a fan of Joe
Davis was activated from the IL today and is penciled in as the DH in tonight’s game.
There’s no information about who was sent back to Indy though.
Perhaps Williams because he’s not worth taking a roster spot
He doesn’t hate him today, Andujar is in the lineup but Reynolds isn’t, perpetual slump hitting Joe is taking his place
Shelton is by far the worst manager in baseball. What reason is it to sit your most productive player with only a few weeks left in the season?
And Suwinski playing against a lefty and batting 5th is yet another example of Shelton’s lack of consistency with his lineups
mlb1225, or any Pirates fan reading this—
Are you happy with Ben Cherington and the job he has done with the Pirates so far? I am curious what the team’s fans think of him.
ugh overall he’s done nothing but draft decently well and trade expiring contracts for future depth.
I actually think the org was in better shape under Neal because he would pull off some interesting trades
I never liked a single NH trade upfront .. but most of them worked out great in the end.
Go- NH got a bad rap because of two major trades that were mediocre and poor at best.
Overall he was a fine trader after he got his feet wet after the first few years.
But I would rather have it BC way as he is very good up and running regarding trades and free agent signings from the get go,No trade like NH of two young players with high ceilings plus a throw in that he said would hurt,all for a mediocre pitcher whose best calling he said were “years of control”!
Those are the kind of surprises that do not usually turn out to be good ones.
Ben’s played it safe .
hasn’t really done much
with an extremely limited budget I liked Hill, Santana, and even signing on Jarlin (even tho injury wiped his season)
but overall hasn’t gotten too creative, which may or may not work out for him.
if he actually has about 40mil to blow this offseason , then this will be the offseason to judge him.
other than that , can’t say much other than he’s drafted pretty well imo
Owner won’t allow BC to give 30 year olds 300 million so he is automatically better than half the leagues gms.
He didn’t mess up the drafts. Passed on Lieter was smart move. Not sure Lawlar Mayer would have signed for under 7 million so Davis and 2 1st round arms was the best move if the hs ss weren’t feasible. TJ and Skenes were automatic picks.
Trades have been elite. But all he did was picked the best package of guys who hit the ball hard or best arms for expiring players. Some gms fail to do this though. Joe Choi good buys.
Free agents grade A. Anderson Quintana Velasquez absolute bargains. Santana Cutch as well. Hill Hedges weren’t cheap but still were tradable. Yoshi Frazier were misses.
Reynolds Hayes team friendly extensions.
Nutting runs Pirates like I would. Big fan. Can definitely improve PR and marketing though. BC about as good as you could ask for. I am a fan of his work and give him my endorsement.
I think he’s done fine. Some good trades, some really promising drafts. He’s not perfect, though not many GMs are. If I had to put him on the 20-80 scouting scale, I’d say he’s a solid 55 current with 60 potential. It becomes a 60 if he signs some decent free agents over the next few offseason, and some of these drafts produce more stuff. I believe it could, but time will tell.
Hemlock- Cherington has done a good job in scouting and signing but poor in development.Good pitching coaches but bad in hitting coaches.Fundamentals are poor,
He has done a good job in trades and found good lower level players who have contributed well which is important for a small market team.
Manager is good with young players but bad in baseball decision making regarding lineups and relief pitchers.He is the governor that will keep this team from competing well for playoffs.
Cherington’s biggest problem is that he has a hands off owner and president and consequently does not feel the need to change management and organizational personnel.This is what eventually got his predecessor fired.The Pirates would be much better served if they had an owner who actually was seriously interested in wanting to win.
isn’t cherrington the guy who signed Panda and Hanley to 2 of the worst contracts in mlb history, back when he had an owner who opened the books on the Red Sox?
this is a chance at redemption, and he’s doing OK, but let’s not pretend we have to imagine what this guy could do with 100mil
Goku – A++++ go to the head of the class
Go- I do remember the Panda signing and that was BC but I had read that that was pushed on him.
Not sure on Ramirez.
I liked Panda but mainly because if I stood next to him pretty girls would say “who is the skinny Guy?”
I remember thinking when he was hired by Nutting that BC’s weakness in hiring high priced free agents will be a moot point in Pittsburgh.
No I’m not happy with Cherington, he’s not the GM I envisioned when Huntington was fired
Player development continues to suck at the minor league level which should have changed when the GM position changed
We’re in year number 4 in 2023 of the latest rebuild so it should be either a make or break season for him, but if they aren’t competitive next year, him, Shelton and Haines should be shown the door
ya it’s just a constant issue with the Pirates where the only prospects who do anything are top draft picks. .
I could be wrong, but it seems other organizations can get a variety of prospect pipelines (better player development? )
pirates will have like 1 international signing who’s a beast Marte/O-Cruz
and then anyone else of note is a 1st round pick with an almost guaranteed path to a starting role in the bigs
Cutch/Cole/Taillon/Pedro
Hayes/Keller/Davis/Endy
is this normal?
shouldn’t they be getting more value out of their 800 other draft picks?
I don’t think it’s normal. Yes, they should be getting more out of their organizational development. It’s as if they draft players whose ceilings are equal to their floors and they never get any better.
There are teams who draft more “lottery tickets” with really high ceilings. Most of them do not reach the ceilings but you only need one or two to make you look like an expert.
@theman3 “I’m not happy” Shocked to hear this.
@Goku top draft picks like 1st rounders Davis Gonzales Priester? Even they don’t hit the ground running or look like they will reach their ceiling. Gonzales looks average at best and not even that if he can’t reduce k’s or increase walks or power. As a 2b only he isn’t even a good possible utility player. Priester is looking back of rotation. The fact Davis isn’t good enough to catch even meaningless games say he isn’t going to be a catcher, not even the number 2. Not a natural outfielder.
Dream-Cherington said that Davis would get some catching in but did not have a chance with the injury.When they drafted him though the main reason was that they were so scant at the position.It seems to me that as a senior at a major university they should have been able to tell if scouted properly whether or not he had a reasonable chance to be a ML catcher and as the first overall pick to be a good one.
He may not be a natural outfielder but I think he is a good enough athlete to do reasonably well there.He should be playing in Arizona this Fall learning the position instead of the Pirates’ standard way of giving them a different glove and saying go play there.
With all due respect to The Man that is pretty much a standard line with him.BC has his pluses and minuses.
You yourself said a couple of years ago that he would get five years so he has one more to go.Yes,this young team lost a year in 2020 because of the shortened season and no minor league ball so give him through 2025 to produce a division winner.
But if his allegiance to your buddy Shelton knows no bounds then he deserves to get canned at the same time as NH and Hurdle did.That would be deja vu all over again.
It’s looking bad for Davis catching. Seems like gm bs to me. If he is even a okish catcher I will be a lil surprised and very pleased.
Cherington could have been extended already and they didn’t announce it. Or he will be. High ranked farm system and significant win improvement looks good if you are a owner. Next year will tell a lot. Wins need to increase again. More importantly his draft picks and trade returns better show something.
By not firing Haines you could get yourself fired by vouching for him. Risky move by Shelton and or Cherington. They must really believe in him or aren’t too smart. Shelton I can see not being too smart. Still though I don’t have much use for a manager and he is as good as most. Not that most are good.
Dream- I have never gotten the impression that BC is a bser.
I think he has the potential to be one of the best gm’s in the business.
But I think that he may be too close to the forest to see the trees with Shelton.I also think that he may rely on analytics too much because I have come to the conclusion that some of Shelton’s lineups are so bizarre that they may be using Hal the robot to make them up.
I would hate to see him go because of a few of his employees are failing him and he has rose colored glasses on.But managing people and effectively criticizing them are very important parts of running a successful organization.
Shelton’s decision to use Bednar 2 games in a row, and during one of Keller’s best pitching performances all year, to close out the game the other night, precluded the use of Bednar in last night’s game when Holderman blew a 2 run lead then managed to give up 4 runs to the Yankees and lost the game for the Bucs was inexcusable
Keller was working on a shutout pitching 8 strong innings and only having thrown 92 pitches
Suwinski struck out 3 times in last night’s game and Connor Joe continued his offensive slump, and is now 2 for his last 18 plate appearances.
> Suwinski struck out
> 3 times in last night’s game
And twice with the bases loaded to end an inning.
No reason to come close to over using Keller in a meaningless game season. Excellent move. A walk or hit and he would be well over 100. Keller leaves not feeling as good as he would have if pulled after 8 and Bednar doesn’t get to pitch a clean inning.
I can hear you now. That idiot Shelton left Keller in to throw over 100 pitches and now he is going to miss all of 2024. They have one of the best closers in baseball. Keller should have never been in there.
In Keller’s lone complete game shutout this season he threw well over 100 pitches
You come across as a know-it-all but apparently that’s just an act
Dream- Keller’s velocity was down by 2 mph which is evidently the reason for pulling him.
The Man evidently does not understand that Shelton is too stupid to think ahead anyway.
When he trotted Crowe and DeJong out to close last year numerous times when Bednar was injured I knew that he was not smart enough to figure it out,
Holderman does not have the kajones to close.It is evident.The proof is in the pudding for Shelton.Is he too stupid to change to Carmen M or Borucki when just three outs are needed and Bednar is unavailable?Does he learn from his mistakes?Does he have a GM to tell him what his mistakes are?
If the Pirates actually do get better they are going to have to have a second and even a third guy who can close.The good teams have them or develop them.The bad teams maybe have only one.The Pirates are lucky that they have a very good one.But if they ever do really want to be a playoff team,and that question is still up in the air,they will find out who can possibly close in the ninth inning.And we’re not talking Colin Holderman.
Your guy BC May have to get one.
Pitchers aren’t robots. Just because they can go so many innings one time doesn’t mean they can another. No reason to go over 100 in a meaningless game.
It was obvious to me that winning games wasn’t a priority in 2020 21 22. Didn’t put much stock into Shelton’s decisions. Looks fine for 2024. If he regresses I will throw him under the bus. Managers and lineups don’t move the needle much. As long as Hedges was last and Cutch Hayes Reynolds Suwinski Joe Santana Choi batted somewhere in the top 6. They have enough arms that the bullpen will work itself out. Mlod Bolton Ortiz Contreras whoever will knock Holderman out as the setup if he doesn’t get it done.
Velocity down 2 mph is a excellent reason to pull a pitcher after 8 innings and 92 pitches.
Theman is welcome to mute me again at anytime. Does he ever contribute anything to conversation? All I recall is constant complaining and name calling. Pirates have been toast for months. Winning only decreases draft odds. They could have pulled Keller after 6 innings and closed it out with Santos Hernandez Selby Crowe Underwood whoever. Doesn’t matter at this point.
#WheresCorn
But good managers have a plan for at least the next game if they plan to have a winning team.
This is Holderman’s fourth blown save.He has done a good job as the setup man.If Shelton had thought ahead he would have flip flopped him and Carmen M.They need to find out what these guys can do this year,
They need to win next year.
Shelton is used to losing and not seeing the fabric that winning teams have and that good managers need to see.
The Pirates are never going to win with a bad manager who does not understand these concepts.
The better ones always do.
There is never enough attention to immediacy to winning from the Pirates organization.Yes they improved this year but that is damning with faint praise because they have been so awful.Too many teams have passed them who were near their low level before.
If you are OK with a 500 team with supposed stars in the farm system that is your decision.Most of us are not.We want a winning team for 4-5 years who compete for division championships every year and at least win several wild cards.The realists know that there will never be a WS title.But long time true Pirate fans are tired of all of the losing and know that this development and management team are not going to meet that goal.
There is an article today on the Cardinals that they are planning to make some changes along those lines.
They are a winning organization.
It does matter and that is what you do not understand.
The more wins that they get this year the closer they are to a winning team.At least Shelton sees that since he realizes that he has to start winning.
It would be nice to see them close on a high note,and they have not had any patsies on the schedule after the Missouri trip.
Who cares about draft choices if they cannot develop the ones that they get?
Baseball is not about collecting high draft picks.At a certain point even Nutting realizes it would be good to put a good product out there.
What you and The Man communicate is your business.And yes he is almost always negative.But many of his ideas make sense,and they serve as a critical analysis.
The rose colored glasses can become too thick too easily.
Corn has taken a deserved vacation.
He is following the Steelers.
As such he may be back soon.
Unlike you and I he sees the glass half empty.He is capable of change,however.
It is very frustrating to be a long time Pirate fan.
They still have hopes for Roansy and Ortiz as starters.Bolton may or may not be able to keep his 40 man roster spot.
Give them another year as Marin May be able to get to them.
Your first line should have been obvious to everyone although I had been hoping for more.They were so bad that they probably had to do that.
Lineups have to be constructed with intelligence and only influenced by data.Shelton changes his around way too much.
Nuances can make a 83 win season into a 92 win season with a very good manager.
If these young position players are not coached properly in hitting it may not matter at all.
We disagree Dream and even throw an occasional insult but I’m not going to mute you as for the most part I do agree with your points
if the game was meaningless Shelton would have used any reliever to pitch the ninth, so his usage of Bednar suggests it wasn’t a meaningless game
Weaver, the starter for the Yankees in tonight’s game has an ERA of over 5, yet he struck out the side in the first inning
My previous question of whose roster spot did Davis take when he was activated from the IL, it’s apparent Andujar was sent back to Indy,
Paul-No.What is apparent is Shelton is an idiot who just won’t play his best hitter.
They sent Capra down the yesterday.
might not be right , but I want more losses
another top 10 pick would be nice
wins and losses at this point in the season aren’t really indicative of improvement imo
I just disagree with ending on a high note meaning anything more than a worse draft slot.
.. would be different if this roster would be a continuation, but I see a lot of fill-ins and guys who (hopefully) won’t play major roles in a hypothetically revamped roster next year (namely Cruz, Cutch, Bru, Vince back from injury, Skenes and a couple notable starting quality signings)
@the man. It’s all good and Mr know it all has your answer. They sent your boy Crapra down. Andujar has been performing and doesn’t have options so they would risk him getting claimed. If someone is willing to use a 40 man spot on him they should be willing to trade a prospect for him in November. Or they may want him for next year.
Meaningless game and intentionally trying to lose are not the same thing. If in playoff race Keller goes 9 and or Bednar goes 3 days in row. Teammates and fans expect to see Bednar close if available so you have to use him. After playoffs weren’t possible I would have loved nothing more than for Crowe Underwood to be the 8th 9th innings guy. Just to obvious and wouldn’t be tolerated.
5 era isn’t relevant for 1 game usually. Does that pitcher give up 4 runs ever start or sometimes 1 to 3 and sometimes 4 to 7? Not that the pirates have amazing hitters who don’t k much. It’s a very average lineup.
Go- You obviously like those higher draft picks.
I think that the can’t miss players are generally gone after #5.
And the #1 that they had is hitting 215 and 118 against sliders.
The minor league development system is not good,and will almost certainly remain that way.They will never develop any superstars that they will need to compete with the better teams for playoff spots.
The losses will always be there for the Pirates.They need to start winning which should be the goal of any organization.
It gives the long suffering fans hope for a continuation of it next year.
Winning losing is irrelevant. What I would like to see is the hitters do well while the loses pile up because of these openers, swing men, 7th starters. Rivas not picking a ball is a good thing. As long as the future is doing well I don’t care if the guys who aren’t part of it lose games. Brubaker Burrows Solo Bubba Jones Harrington Barco Wolf Chen Shim Nicolas Kennedy Skenes etc are knocking the weak pieces out.
If you can’t develop you really need high draft picks. It increases the odds of them being good and the $ is important. 2021 there wasn’t a #1 guy. Davis may have been the only 1 who would sign for 6m. There wasn’t anyone worth paying 8 or 9 million for. Davis plus the 2 first round talent pitchers was a better play. Davis can still be a plus bat. If he can’t catch and it seems now that is the case then it’s a disappointment but still something.
I agree with your sentiment , but unfortunately im throwing in the towel on the season.
at this point the only thing they can win is a better draft slot
for the record I hate being this way, but the seasons been a disaster with a ton of injuries
Dream-The problem is that you have been saying that same exact thing for three years now.
I sense that both Shelton and Cherington are starting to realize that the heat may be starting to come down on them.
The honeymoon is over.
Tomorrow never comes.
If you think that the Pirates are suddenly going to turn into a juggernaut because of the guys that you named think again.They are not going to spontaneously combust on their own.
Meanwhile the Marlins,Cubs,Dbacks,and Reds have flashed past them in less time.The Nationals may be on their way.
And three years from now you may very well be singing the same song but with a new GM and new manager.
Even Nutting has enough baseball sense to figure that one out.
Davis seems like he is a good athlete and his arm is comparable to Cruz in right field.
Endy is the real thing as a catcher and evidently just blew past Davis as one.That doesn’t mean Davis is bad,but he seems to be mediocre as a catcher.What happens if Endy gets seriously hurt?
I think that Endy will start to hit better too,probably even next year.
I defer to you on the draft.What you said made sense.I give BC relatively marks for scouting,but they seem to have missed on Davis as a catcher.
But his lack of hitting sliders is a real concern as almost every pitcher has one.
Not me. 2024 was always my year. Thought 2023 was a improvement but nothing special. Bright eyes thought they would be a wild card or even division winner.
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/nl-central-notes-castel…
Won’t know for sure how rebuild went until 2025 at earliest probably 2026. Most the players you seen so far were Huntington drafted and developed. People love to criticize Joe and Suwinski but another team isn’t giving up anyone they thought could be something for Frazier and Garcia. Huge wins with those trades. No minor leagues in 2020. Draft was 5 rounds and most the highschool talent went to college since they couldn’t be scouted well. Other than Davis the 2021 2022 elite talent were high school kids. Really my 2024 1st contending year was incredibly bold and a unreasonable expectation.
Miami is fighting for the last wild card and most their talent is at mlb. Soler will be free agent, Bell will be or next year. Arraez next. Most of Pirates talent is in minors or locked up for the rest of the decade. Keller Bednar will be traded for more wonderful prospects or extended cheap. Pirates didn’t have a Baez Rizzo Bryant to trade. Cubs did well and can spend 200 million. Reds develop well and had some big pieces to trade. Dbacks rebuilding longer and better market. Nats well excuse the pirates for not have a Scherzer Turner Soto to trade. And they can spend 200 million as well.
And like I said. Pirates development was ome of or the worst in baseball. Anyone who can develop players is employed. They are likely fans of other teams. Other teams can pay them more. Difficult to be one of the better development teams. Almost impossible to be elite.
Most scouts I heard didn’t think Daavis could catch in mlb or acceptable bat first. Maybe time share or backup. Last year one scout went from scouting cape cod to AA and said the cape catchers all look better. I never caught but he looks really weak to me. Hope his work ethic gets him there. Seems Pirates have given up on him catching or management needs fired. No reason he couldn’t catch scrub relievers in garbage time. Only did it twice for a inning is unacceptable. He looked like a clown out there for the 2 innings I saw. So either say he can’t do it or should of got him more work. Zero innings or 20 30 innings. Not 2 innings.
for the record I like Davis as .300 30 HR ceiling DH when drafted
never really saw him as a catcher.
all this losing gets me into gimmick territory , so would like Henry to catch a few games to lock in his Catcher positional value in fantasy baseball 2024
sad times.
They can play him in cf 1b let him pitch. Who cares at this point. If he can’t catch this season when losing games is a good thing I don’t want to see him catching next year. Angel Hernandez types behind the plate would be perfect games for Davis.
I’m glad it wasn’t Andujar, but the batters still managed to strike out 13 times
Every time Shelton makes an excuse for the failure of the offense I want to ask why Haines still has a job
If Andujar has been performing why didn’t he play in last night’s game?
I would rather they play him than Palacios who’s a streaky hitter and strikes out far too much. Granted he has power but having a BA that hovers around .210, he doesn’t hit enough to warrant being inserted in the everyday lineup
They need to make sure that they at least sign Bednar when he is due.
You saw what happens when you do not have a closer on Friday night,
Position is way way more important than self professed experts say it is,even on losing teams,
And development is not that difficult.Yes,the best proven ones are employed.That does not mean that young coaches who show promise should not be given a chance in failed systems,especially if they have grown in proven systems.There are enough good systems out there to produce candidates that are better than what the Pirates have.
And these guys are not making millions per year.Nutting has plenty of money to pay them to improve the team and concentrate on winning baseball.
Your prospects are still suspects until proven at a major league level.
Davis should at least catch enough on a periodic basis to be useful during an emergency or during an injury to Endy.
I have to take BC at his word that this will happen.
You said 2024 to be contenders.
That is still a fair statement.
I say first year 2020 they were abysmal.They took your concept of losing to heart.They continued the awfulness of the second half of 2019.Equivalent of 51 wins.
Second year,progress made to 60 wins.Still awful.They listened to you again.I consider a rebuild to be 10 wins per year.
Third year 62 wins.No progress made.Should have been 71 wins.
Fourth year 73.?Wins.Progress made Should have been mediocre at 81 wins.
Next year 91 wins for a successful rebuild.I will take 87.Contention,yes,but not good enough to make the playoffs.
2025 playoffs,or failed rebuild.One or the other.
It does not go on forever.
Andujar hits a home run but worthless Shelton uses Palacios to pinch hit for him
Davis is 0 for 7 since returning from the IL with 6 ks
And Williams was 3 for 32 against lefties before today’s game
Was the pitcher a lefty? No reason to play Andujar against a righty if you don’t need to.
Nope 2021 2022 should have been bad. You trade away every veteran and replace them with prospects. That’s a bad team. Can’t expect to be good until prospects arrive. Can’t expect non blue chip prospects to be anything special. Most importantly management wanted team to be bad to get high draft picks. Those 60 win teams could have easily and cheaply been 70 something win teams. No reason to win 70 some games.
And it can go on forever. Just look at KC DET COL. OAK isn’t looking too promising. White sox rebuild didn’t amount to much. Neither did Miami. Mets are clueless. No idea what Angels are doing. Padres are goof balls. Tampa bay management couldn’t get it done in big market Boston. Failure is plentiful.
Probably matchups. Also good to get pinch hit experience. Shelton A+++
Palacios didn’t do anything either , grounded out weakly to the first baseman
I’d rather have Andujar bat against a righty than a player with a BA of .210
Shelton gave Reynolds off today despite the fact they aren’t playing tomorrow
Dream- I was a very good student through college but I wish I had you for a bunch of classes as my cume would have zoomed upwards.
Dream- And that is the point.Some of us are not convinced that your rebuild will not go on forever.
Dream-That is a stupid statement.
Andujar is hitting like 350 since he has been up.
And not only against lefties.
Try again.
Paul- Davis is not a ML player at this point.He needs to be sent down to AAA where he only spent two weeks.He needs to learn how to catch,play right field,and hit a slider.
He was rushed to the MLS because he was the 2001 first pick in the draft.
This is not on him.
Since Andujar has been called up is a micro sample size. Seems he does much better vs lhp. No idea why as he used to hit rhp better it seemed. Crushing lhp only is an improvement over being completely useless. I am all for him playing vs rhp. Can’t have it both ways though. It’s either a meaningless season and meaningless games or winning matters and he shouldn’t face pitchers he has struggled against.
Good off day. 2 days off in a row is probably better for the body than 1 day.
Dream-Article in Pittsburgh Now says he is hitting 333 with a 977 ops.Shelton says he is a good hitter.Why has he only played in half the games?The Pirates have no clue whether he can hit righthanders because he has not played enough,
Shelton even said that he did a good job in right field where he seems to be a natural.
He played first base in Indianapolis.
Connor Joe is a waste and he should not be playing taking up space.They know he is what he is.
Cherington was smart enough to give Andujar extra money to keep him from getting claimed.Play the guy while he is healthy against all pitchers to see how he does.
We are not talking the Lumber Company here.
Then at the end the writer says about whether he may or may not get a contract next year.Amazing.
need a supporting cast
time for the pirates to make some big trades
Luis Robert Jr to the Pirates for Priester, Nick Gonzalez and WBC Taiwan Hero Cheng
Pirate fans can only dream…..
Why would a team give up a good mlb asset for 2 failed prospects? They would look to buy low and out develop Pittsburgh if they seen a way to improve them.
Not sure that Gonzalez and Priester can be called failed prospects as both are young players with some talent and limited ML playing time.The problem is neither may ever reach their hype..
Robert came into his own though but just this year and showed himself to be a fine ML player.
Trade could work out for Chicago but only if they think that Robert is a flash in the pan.
Love the optimism and you are right. As long as you are still playing you haven’t failed. I am sure Chicago would receive much better returns though. Lots to like from Priester. He could be a nice piece. Much less optimistic with Gonzales but maybe your boy Haines can coach him up.
Dream- No optimism here Dream,Just realism and critical thinking splashed with some hope.
You are the optimist.
I think it a mistake to give up on first round picks too soon.That did not work out well with Glasgow and Meadows and Baz.Somebody at some time thought that they deserved a shot based on their talent level.Prospects mature at different rates.
Gonzalez made two of the nicest plays that I have seen made by a second baseman and you know that I am not a debutante.
PriesterMay be only a three inning pitcher but he has done that well and long relievers in this day and age are an under respected commodity.
I note your turn at humor regarding Mr Haines.It shows that you have been reading but not commenting for a while.Welcome back.
Positivity is falling. I am a realist as well but if I have to choose I will go optimism over pessimism. Gonzales hasn’t walked enough and struck out too much. Needs to improve. Can he? Sure. Will he? I dunno. Not optimistic! Priester is throwing harder now at least. So more optimistic on him. Will he be anything special? Less optimistic. Can’t see them bringing a player like Robert.
Dream- Critical analysis is a positive thing.No rose colored glasses here.
A good hitting coach can change some of these guys for the better if they have the talent in the first place.Let’s give Gonzalez another year.
Methinks that BC May be looking at the logjam guys that he created like Preller does at the numerous fine young players that he has drafted.In that case let’s hope that BC maintains his fine trading history.
Man they love them some Cutch!
1 year / $4Mil, and a corner locker for life
I wasn’t aware there are only 158 mlb players to make it to 300 homers. I thought that would be higher. I guess I got used to the PED guys smashing homers by the dozens years ago.
Probably still are. Fortunately, we have Cutch. Pure talent.
There was a reason why they called it the “dead ball era” through the mid 1920’s.
It works out to about 1.5-2.0 hitters per year making it to 300 home runs.
I think some of those stadiums had absolutely massive OFs too
I know Forbes Field was really far to crack one out
458 CF at Forbes
483 CF at Polo Grounds
435 is deepest CF at current, Minute Maid
I know there’s other factors besides CF , but seems a good average denominator.
I attended a game at Forbes Field in 1967, when Willie Stargell hit a home run over the right field fence, completely out of the stadium
Only one other player accomplished this feat, Babe Ruth
Go- I think only Dick Stuart hit one out at the 458 wall.
They stored the batting cage in dead center field.Hence the frequent definition used by Bob Prince Between ground and book rules.
The Pirates did shorten the distance in the late 1940’s when they acquired Hank Greenberg.It was called Geenburg Gardens.Not sure but it may have benefited Ralph Kiner too as that was about his first year.
However,right field was only 300 feet although they did install a fence there.
And in the Polo Geounds left field was 250 feet and the home runs had a particular national moniker.
I meant to say “ right field roof”, not fence
I’ve read a bunch of player biographies. The anecdotal consensus is that even reaching 200 career homeruns is very difficult.
ya true, when u simplify it:
10 seasons of 20 HR ball
or
6+ seasons of 30 HR ball
….and that’s the “easy” way to get to 200
The Pirates appear to be on the upswing and might finally surprise next year.
Cherington has aggressively built out farm system depth, which will be a strong hedge against the eternal payroll constraints. IMO, a two year deal or one with a player option would be perfectly fair. It would be great for Pittsburgh fans if McCutcheon finished his career with a playoff appearance.
Yank- The operative word is “might”.
Then again it may be more of the same.
with Shelton ar the helm and Haines as the hitting coach, it’s more likely to be more of the same
Stats are comp to Scott Rolen.