In conjunction with this installment in our Offseason Outlook series, Steve Adams will be hosting a Pirates-centric chat today at 1pm CT. Click here to ask a question in advance, and be sure to check back to participate live!
The Pirates’ blistering start to the season gave way to another year of losing baseball and deadline selling. With many members of their vaunted farm system now on the cusp of their first full season in the Majors, they should be set for a more active offseason than in recent years.
Guaranteed Contracts
- Bryan Reynolds, OF: $100MM through 2030 (includes buyout of 2031 club option)
- Ke’Bryan Hayes, 3B: $50MM through 2029 (includes buyout of 2030 club option)
2024 commitments: $17MM
Total future commitments: $150MM
Option Decisions
- Jarlin Garcia, LHP: $3.25MM club option (no buyout)
Arbitration-Eligible Players
- Miguel Andujar
- Ryan Borucki
- Mitch Keller
- JT Brubaker
- David Bednar
- Connor Joe (likely Super Two)
- Non-tender candidate(s): Andujar, Joe
Free Agents
The beginning of the offseason is often a time for changes in the front office or in the dugout, particularly among losing clubs, but there’s no real risk of that among the Pittsburgh brass. Manager Derek Shelton was extended earlier this season, with his new deal beginning next year. There’s been no indication that general manager Ben Cherington is in any kind of jeopardy after a third losing season. Cherington was hired to embark on a full-scale rebuilding effort, and ownership knew from the start that it’d be a lengthy process.
The first and most straightforward decision of the winter will come on lefty Jarlin Garcia’s $3.25MM club option, which will surely be declined after he missed the year due to injury. There’s no buyout on the option, so the Bucs will let him go after a season spent on the injured list.
A larger and more pressing issue for Bucs fans pertains to franchise icon Andrew McCutchen. The former National League MVP returned to the organization that drafted him last offseason, signing a one-year deal worth $5MM. McCutchen has been vocal about the fact that the Pirates and Pittsburgh feel like home to him, and with his 37th birthday just two weeks away as of this writing, he’s made clear that he has little appetite to continue his career elsewhere.
Cherington has been candid about his desire to bring McCutchen back in 2024, stating earlier this month that the two parties would discuss a new contract this offseason. McCutchen’s 2023 campaign ended early due to a partial Achilles tear, but he picked up his 2000th career hit and 400th career double this year in black and gold. The overwhelming likelihood is that he’ll return to the Pirates on another short-term deal in 2024, this time taking aim at his 300th career home run — he’s currently at 299 — and again serving as a veteran mentor for a young Bucs club. Of course, Cutch brings more than just leadership to the table; he batted .256/.378/.397 with a dozen homers and 11 steals in 112 games this year.
Assuming McCutchen is back, he’ll be the primary designated hitter. The Pirates gave him just 64 innings in right field this year, and that was before the aforementioned Achilles injury. He’ll be locked into a largely regular lineup role, joining third baseman Ke’Bryan Hayes and outfielders Bryan Reynolds and Jack Suwinski in that regard. Hayes had a rough first half but continued to provide elite defense through his struggles at the plate. And, in the second half of the season, he’s erupted with a .307/.345/.556 slash line. Suwinski strikes out too much to hit for a high average but draws tons of walks (14.6%) and has thus far swatted 26 homers and swiped 13 bags. Reynolds’ bat is down a bit from peak levels, but he turned in his third straight season of 20-plus homers and was still a well above-average offensive performer.
At least one other spot on the diamond seems all but solidified. It’s been a lost year for Oneil Cruz, who suffered a fractured ankle in a home plate collision with White Sox catcher Seby Zavala in early April. The 6’7″ Cruz has long been lauded as one of the top prospects in the game due to his near-unparalleled raw power and plus speed. Losing his entire age-24 season to injury is a blow to his development, but he’s still controllable for five years. In his first 410 MLB plate appearances, he’s batted .237/.302/.449 with a jarring 33.7% strikeout rate, but Cruz has some of the loudest tools in the game and possesses star potential. He’ll treat the 2023 season as a mulligan as he looks to realize his upside.
As far as position players go, the Pirates don’t necessarily have anyone else firmly entrenched just yet. Top catching prospects Endy Rodriguez and Henry Davis both made their MLB debuts this year, but both struggled at the plate. Davis saw the vast majority of his time in right field, and a move out from behind the plate has long been viewed as a possibility for the 2021 No. 1 overall pick. The Bucs only gave him two big league innings at catcher, though they’ve not yet said he won’t play the position at all in the future. Still, it seems that Rodriguez could well be the preferred option there, with Davis sliding into an outfield/first base/DH/part-time catcher role if the bat picks up.
Both Rodriguez and Davis will play big roles with the Bucs next year, but it might still be prudent to bring in some veteran competition, even if only on a minor league deal. Jason Delay is a fine backup catcher, but if one or both of Rodriguez and Davis wind up needing time in the minors, having another backstop (e.g. Curt Casali, Sandy Leon, Luke Maile) on hand would hold value.
In the outfield, Connor Joe and Alfonso Rivas are options if Davis needs some Triple-A time. But Joe is likely to be arb-eligible and saw his bat wilt after a torrid start to the season (.217/.309/.351 in his past 356 plate appearances). Rivas, 27, has huge Triple-A numbers but has yet to carry them to the Majors in parts of three seasons. Miguel Andujar is a non-tender candidate, and Joe could be as well. There are plenty of affordable corner outfielders on the market if the Bucs want to go outside the organization to provide some competition for Davis. Randal Grichuk, Hunter Renfroe and David Peralta will all be free agents, as will Travis Jankowski and Michael A. Taylor, if the preference is for someone more defensive-minded.
As far as areas that are in clear need of work, the right side of the infield stands out. Last offseason’s first base acquisitions, Carlos Santana and Ji Man Choi, were both traded at the deadline. The previously mentioned Joe wound up playing a significant amount at first base but has seen his season-long batting line dip below the league average despite his hot start to the year. Rivas presents another option here.
Rookie Jared Triolo is a third baseman who’s gotten a few brief looks at first base. He could be an option, but his .292/.382/.385 slash seems bound to regress when his .419 BABIP comes back down to Earth. And given his 29% strikeout rate, it’s fair to harbor some concerns. Prospect Malcom Nunez had a tough showing in his Triple-A debut this year, though he’s still just 22. Garrett Cooper and C.J. Cron are among the short-term options available in free agency,
At second base, none of Ji Hwan Bae, Liover Peguero or Nick Gonzales have forcefully staked their claim to the position. All three are former prospects of note who have minor league options remaining, but second base is another area where the Bucs could at least bring in some veteran competition to steady the position in 2024 and serve as a bridge to top prospect Termarr Johnson. The free agent market at second base is thin behind Whit Merrifield, but the trade and non-tender markets could open up additional avenues.
Turning to the pitching staff, there’s some degree of a foundation in place. Mitch Keller will be back to lead the staff. There could be trade rumors surrounding the righty, as has been the case for much of the past two years, but Keller has stepped up as a solid mid-rotation arm over the past two seasons, often showing flashes of an even higher ceiling. With two years of club control remaining, he could well be an extension candidate. (More on that in a bit.) Keller and fellow righty Johan Oviedo — acquired from the Cardinals alongside Nunez in exchange for Jose Quintana — have cemented themselves on the staff. It’s been a rollercoaster season for Oviedo, but the end result will be 175ish innings with an ERA in the low 4.00s. He’s currently at 172 2/3 frames with a 4.12 mark and one start remaining.
There are both depth options and rising prospects who can factor into the starting pitching mix. Righty JT Brubaker will return from Tommy John surgery at some point early next summer. Deadline pickup Bailey Falter has had a tough year but logged a 3.86 ERA in 84 innings with the 2022 Phillies. He’ll be out of options next year, so he’ll have to make the club as either a fifth starter or long reliever — or else be traded or designated for assignment. Right-hander Roansy Contreras entered the year looking like a rotation building block but has struggled in Pittsburgh and in Triple-A. He’ll get additional opportunities in the future, though it’s always possible they come in the bullpen.
Prospects like Quinn Priester and Luis Ortiz have already gotten their feet wet, and there’s more help on the horizon. Anthony Solometo, Jared Jones and 2023 No. 1 overall pick Paul Skenes could all debut next year. Skenes’ eventual arrival will be one of the most eagerly anticipated pitching debuts since Stephen Strasburg first took the mound for the Nationals in 2010.
In-house options notwithstanding, the Bucs figure to add at least one arm this year. They’ve added a low-ceiling veteran stabilizer in each of the past three offseasons, bringing Tyler Anderson, Jose Quintana and Rich Hill aboard on one-year deals — and trading all three at that season’s respective deadline. There’s merit to making a similar play for some bulk innings this winter, with Kyle Gibson, Wade Miley and Martin Perez among the options who’d fit that bill.
Even if the Pirates do make such an addition, however, it’s quite arguable that the time has come for them to do something a bit more on the pitching front. A long-term play for a young ace like Japanese star Yoshinobu Yamamoto isn’t going to be in the cards for a club with such a modest annual payroll, and no one is going to predict the Pirates to sign Blake Snell on the heels of a Cy Young-caliber season. But the market offers plenty of upside plays, be it a multi-year pact for a still-young pitcher like Jack Flaherty or a shorter-term pickup of a pitcher looking to rebound from injury. Frankie Montas and Luis Severino both fit that description and would both bring substantially higher upside to the Pirates than their prior offseason pickups.
The bullpen, outside of David Bednar, is lacking in household names but not in quality. Bednar is a star and one of the game’s best bullpen arms, but Pittsburgh also got strong results out of less-heralded names like Colin Holderman, Dauri Moreta, Carmen Mlodzinski and even waiver/DFA pickups like Ryan Borucki and Thomas Hatch.
Some of the rotation candidates who don’t stick as starters will inevitably end up here, but there will also be injuries and regression among 2023’s quietly solid group. There’s certainly room to bring in a veteran arm here, though any veteran seeking closing opportunities will likely look elsewhere, as Bednar won’t be displaced — nor (to the chagrin of other fan bases) will he likely be traded with the Pirates hoping to emerge from their rebuild sooner than later. Phil Maton, Keynan Middleton, Ryne Stanek, Michael Fulmer and Brent Suter are among the many, many relief options available this winter.
Of course, repeated suggestions of the Pirates spending money will be met with anything ranging from skepticism to jokes and mockery. But the Pirates have just two players under contract beyond the current season, Reynolds and Hayes, and they’ll pay that pair a combined $17MM in 2024. There are a handful of players due raises in arbitration, but the prices figure to be modest. Keller will be due a raise on this year’s $2.375MM salary and figures to be the most expensive of the bunch. Brubaker will likely repeat last year’s $2.275MM salary after missing the year due to Tommy John surgery. Bednar is in his first trip through arbitration, and Borucki won’t cost much as a minor league signee.
Even after those arb raises, the Pirates could have under $30MM on the books. That doesn’t include league-minimum players to round out the roster, but it’s nevertheless a gap of more than $40MM from where their 2023 payroll began. And with increased expectations, it’s eminently plausible that ownership will give Cherington & Co. a bit more latitude in terms of spending (albeit not too much more).
Just as there’s room to look into free agency more extensively than in seasons past, there’s also payroll space to consider locking up key long-term pieces. Keller hasn’t reached ace status but holds a strong 3.82 ERA in 54 starts and 318 innings since incorporating a sinker into his repertoire in May 2022. That includes a poor finish to his 2023 season, which will surely be a factor the Pirates consider, but Keller’s workload is at career-high levels and the overall body of work the past two seasons remains strong. He’s logged better-than-average strikeout, walk and ground-ball rates in that time (23.5%, 7.5%, 46.1%) and is just 27 years old.
There are plenty of parallels between Keller and Twins righty Pablo Lopez, who inked a four-year, $73.5MM deal with Minnesota earlier this year when he was in the same service class that Keller will be in this coming offseason. Perhaps Keller’s slightly lesser track record and shaky finish will prevent him from quite reaching that annual value, but it’s certainly a relevant comparison.
Bednar, too, stands as a possible extension candidate — though multi-year deals for relievers are rare, particularly once they’ve reached their arbitration years. He has a healthier track record and more saves than Rays righty Pete Fairbanks, who back in March signed a three-year, $12MM deal that bought out his arbitration seasons and gave Tampa Bay control over one free agent year. Bednar is poised to do quite well in arbitration and might command close to double that commitment to put pen to paper, but it’s a concept worth exploring for an excellent reliever who’s popular with his hometown fans.
The Bucs could also look into a long-term deal with Cruz, though that’ll be a tall task as Cruz might want to put this year’s freak injury behind him and prove himself on the field before talking years and dollars.
It’s been a long time since Pirates fans got to follow a playoff-caliber club in Pittsburgh, but the latest rebuilding effort under a still relatively new front office regime is likely moving toward a conclusion. A lot rides on the continued development of high-end prospects like Davis, Rodriguez, Skenes, Jones, Solometo and Priester, but everyone from that group could contribute as soon as next season. Hayes, Reynolds, Suwinski, Cruz, Keller and Bednar give some immediate optimism, and they’ll be joined by that group of promising prospect as well as some veteran additions in an increasingly competitive NL Central next year.
Bae and Peugero should be serviceable until Termarr is ready
I think Triolo should remain at first base, rather than second. Like you said, Bae/Peguero should work fine until Johnson is up. But Triolo is such a great defender. Even if he is never a 20 homer threat, he’s an outstanding glove who could hit .280 regularly with 13-15 home runs. Even then, who knows. Triolo has changed up his stance and has been barreling the ball much harder since getting recalled in September.
Can someone please explain why Shelton is sitting Hayes in tonight’s game with only 4 games left to the season?
He sits Reynolds and Hayes on a regular basis claiming that they need a break
They can take as many breaks as they want after Sunday’s game
Meaningless games season. Let Hayes finish healthy and positive. Maybe gain a draft odds position.
gaining a draft position with this franchise doesn’t always work out especially with a player development system that sucks.
Gonzalez, drafted #1 by Cherington has been a major disappointment.
Hayes has had periodic rests since coming off the most recent stint on the IL. from his back injury. Seems to worked well with him sitting every so often if he feels something in it as he has not had any major issues since. (knocking on wood)
Reynolds only missed 17 games and that included a stint on the bereavement list and a stint on the IL
Triolo is a great defender and likable player but he will never hit 15hr/yr. More like 7-8. With a low number of Home runs across the diamond, you can’t play a first baseman who hits less than 10, or even 15 for that matter
2023 had a lot of ups and downs, but I can’t say I am wholly dissapointed in the year. I’m liking what’s in store for 2024. This team feels like it’s just a few pieces away from getting that major push it needs. But here is my take on the Pirates.
Ben Cherington looks like he wants to build around the pitching staff. You have multiple top pitching prospects in the minor leagues like Skenes, Jared Jones, Anthony Solometo, Bubba Chandler, Thomas Harrington, Mike Burrows (TJ), Jackson Wolf, Hunter Barco, Po-Yu Chen, Zander Mueth, Michael Kennedy, Jun-Seok Shim, Braxton Ashcraft, and J.P. Massey. Of course, they’re not all on the same tier, but the Pirates do have a lot of pitching coming up through the system, which they’ll need considering that right now the SP depth is pretty thin. They’ve somehow played about .500 ball (maybe slightly over) over their last 60 or so games despite basically playing with two starting pitchers.
They still need to add another pitcher or two this off-season. Like the article says, no one is pinning them to win a bidding war for the top guys, but I’d settle for a solid #3-type starter on the free agent market. However, I would love for them to go for a more higher-tier option like Jordan Montgomery.
The young guys like Endy and Davis struggled in their first taste of big league action, though I am not too worried about it yet. Many young guys struggle in their first big league call-up. Cruz also struggled last year for the first few months of his career, then caught fire in August. I know fans are concerned about Andy Haines staying around, and I can’t say that I am too thrilled about his return.
But I will give credit where credit is due. The Pirates have really changed their batted ball approach over the second half of the off-season, going from a more ground ball to line drive focused team. They have one of the highest line drive rates with men on base since late-July, and from the looks of it, it’s paying off. Since July 28th, they have a 29-27 with a 22.6% liner rate with men on base (3rd highest in the league). As a team, they are batting .271/.354/.455 with a 116 wRC+ with men on base. That puts them top ten in batting average, OBP, slugging, wOBA, wRC+ with men on base. They also rank top 15 in all of the mentioned stats (triple-slash numbers, wOBA, wRC+) with RISP since July 28th as well.
This will be a pivotal off-season for Ben Cherington, though, and probably his biggest since taking over as general manager. The one thing I don’t want to see them do is go for a half-measures approach. Last year, going after one year vets like Rich Hill, Austin Hedges, and Ji-Man Choi was fine. 2023 was a sort of “testing the waters” year. If the Pirates were in it by late July, then they could keep the said one year vets around for a potential push. If not, they could trade them for young players, which is what they did.
The Pirates spent about $36 million in free agent signings and trade additions, which was over double of what they spent the preivous off-season. I don’t think the Pirates are going to double their off-seaosn spending again, but I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to say they will spend around the same amount, if not more. Hedges+Hill+Velasquez=$16.15 million of their off-season spending. Instead of putting that money toward three different players, maybe just go after one, higher priced FA. Of course, bring back Cutch on a one year deal, likely for a similar or same amount of $5 million. Pirates will also save some money by turning down Jarlin Garcia’s option.
Overall, I am looking forward to what this team does in 2024. Lots of steps forward in 2023, and there will be players returning like Oneil Cruz, Mike Burrows, and JT Brubaker. Add some quality reinforcements to the rotation, and some bullpen/line-up depth, and I think this team could make a splash during next year.
Sorry for those reading the comments and see my essay lol. I know many on this forum know me as the Pirates guy, and I just wanted to share my overall thoughts on the Pirates going into 2024.
I think the problem from the standpoint of the front office is, if you spend big on one player and they stink up the joint, you get nothing. If you sign three guys maybe one (or even two) of em are duds but you still have one guy thats serviceable.
I think your logic is solid but generally I dont think FOs go for this because they think the downside risk is too great.
As long as they aim for something higher than one-year vets just to fill a spot. I’m not saying don’t make any of those signing, but at least get one decent SP. They need someone to anchor the rotation and give them some consistency. Keller and Oviedo came up big this year and gave them 30+ starts each. They need to bring in another guy who can reliably give them a decent amount of innings with above league average production.
Plus, the Pirates don’t have to go through the FA market to get a decent SP. The trade market will be something they’ll likely explore. Either way, I don’t see them going the entire off-season not acquiring any quality SP options.
Depends on your definition of “quality”. I don’t think they’re looking to add Clayton Kershaw or Lucas Giolito, There could be value in getting guys such as Luis Severino or Frankie Montas – guys who at their best would slot in nicely with Keller and Oviedo. I wouldn’t sleep on finding value on someone like Martin Perez or Chris Flexen as well.
If the Pirates do decide to “go big”, I could see them targeting Jordan Montgomery or even Shota Imanaga (from the NPB, lefty with awesome command). These are guys more in the $12-15M AAV range who would expect a deal for a few seasons, which is more of a gamble.
As much as I like some of the young arms they’ve got, I think they’ll have a few growing pains and we won’t really see any of them slot into reliable starters in 2024, but it surely would be nice to give guys like Priester, Skenes and Solometo time to ease into a role rather than be thrust into the rotation – which is why I think they’ll aim more for a guy (or two) who needs to rebuild value and is pretty much guaranteed a spot on the opening day roster (Montas, Perez, Severino, Flexen).
The front office is in a decent position to do both though, they aren’t mutually exclusive options. The specific names are less important than the general concept here but adding Hyun Jin Ryu, Andrew Chafin, Teoscar Hernandez and bringing back Cutch in free agency for somewhere around 35-40 million in total annual salary isn’t completely unrealistic, though admittedly still unlikely.
I thought Davis was doing okay until he injured his hand or wrist or something, which eventually put him on the DL. I would give him a bit of a mulligan on that. And will be looking to pick him up on the cheap in a fantasy league, where he could easily turn in a .260/20HR year with some sbs for really cheap.
Yeah, he wasn’t doing too bad, and had a 113 wRC+ throghout about his first month of playing time. He wasn’t hitting for much power, but over the last week, he’s put together a nice streak. He has six hits, including four XBH (2 doubles and HRS) over his last 17 plate appearances.
Definitely high hopes for 2024!
Good review. I would change one assumption. Jack Suwinski really struggles against lefties. I wouldn’t list him as an everyday player but as a full-time strong side of a platoon. His defense is solid so leaving him in games or bringing him in late for defense is workable and will likely get him additional at bats.
Suwinski is just so, up and down. Sometimes he looks like a potential Silver Slugger candidate. Other times, he can’t hit the ball to save his life. Look at his month-to-month OPS. Three months with an OPS over .880 (including two with an OPS over .900). Three more months with an OPS below .800 (including one month with an OPS below .600). He reminds me a lot of Pedro Alvarez, but can play center field to an average level and walks more frequently. I don’t even know if a new hitting coach would fix that. Some players are simpily just volatile batters, but that’s okay. He’s been about a two-and-a-half win player this year and has given the Pirates solid CF defense and 26 home runs.
I agree. And he is still much better (when he is one of his ‘making’ contact stretches) as a strong side platoon. I am very comfortable (for now) just playing him against righties knowing that his glove and OBP skills may not make him an immediate replacement when all of a sudden a lefty takes the hill in relief. (last of 9th… yes.. please pinch hit for him). He played almost full time partly (IMO) because there was not a plan B for centerfield who hit right handed. His power is real and Schwarber comparisons (at the plate as a platoon but as a glove no comparison) as a ceiling seem reasonable.
I don’t know how expensive they’d be, but I’d at least kick the tires on Michael A. Talyor and Harrison Bader. Taylor has a .845 OPS vs LHP this year and Bader owns a .299/.361/.575 triple-slash when facing a lefty. Both are probably better suited for a 4th/part-time/platoon outfield role rather than regular fulltime. Randal Grichuck is another one I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing in as a platoon-mate for Jack, though he’s far less of a defender compared to Bader and Taylor. I wouldn’t be upset with Kevin Pillar either as a platoon/4th OF option.
You could have Joe back as a righty partner for Suwinski–you’d have to play Reynolds in center in that situation, but the short side of a platoon is really what Joe needs to be slotted into.
Something not mentioned in this article is the high strikeouts by this team on a daily basis
12 again in last night’s game, either the hitters don’t know the strike or the batting coaches are failing to teach these guys how to swing a bat
The talk before last night’s game was Gonzalez hot bat since being sent back to Indy and he proceeded to strike out 3 times, twice on pitches nowhere near the plate
It won’t matter who they sign in the offseason if striking out continues to be acceptable
Just saying, strikeouts aren’t a direct correlation to being a good or bad hitting team. The team with the lowest strikeout rates this year are the Nationals and Guardians. The two highest are the Twins and Mariners. The Pirates and Phillies have virtually the same K%.
I agree, strikeotus are frustrating, but they’re not the be all end all. As I said in my other comment, the Pirates have been a top ten hitting team with men on base, and a top 15 hitting team with runners in scoring position since late-July.
Striking out means you’re not making contact with the ball and if you’re down runs with runners in scoring position and you strike out, chances are good those runners are left on base
This is a team that is last in the league in runs scored, they’re not going to improve if they can’t make contact with the ball.
And I don’t care about how they compare with other teams, the Phillies you mentioned may strike out often but they score far more runs than the Bucs do and have far more power
The Pirates have been coming up big with runners on base. They’re top ten in batting average, OBP, slugging, wOBA, and wRC+ when they come to the dish with men on base since July 28th, the last two months.
I also am not comparring them with other teams, just stating that striking out doesn’t automatically make you a good or bad team.
Even with strikeouts, in which they have a slightly below average K% with men on base over the last two months, they are still top ten in hits, have scored over 220 runs, have the 4th most doubles, and 3rd most triples. Overall, they rank 13th with men on base in runs scored.
strikeotus are frustrating, but they’re not the be all end all
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Beyond that, the original statement of “high strikeouts by this team on a daily basis” was mostly wrong to start with. Pitt is only #10 in Ks, and only 61 Ks above average for the season (1422 v 1361). That’s not overly high.
They struck out 12 times in last night’s game and didn’t win so apparently not making contact with the ball and instead making an out in the process isn’t going to score many runs
And I don’t care about what other teams do
They also scored six runs and had seven hits with men on base, the most by any team on the 27th who didn’t play two games (Mets and Marlins). They struck out six times with men on base, but you have to take the good with the bad. Six runs and seven hits with men on base is still nothing to scoff at. They’re still scoring, despite the strikeouts, and have scored 224 runs over the last 2 months, the 13th most in baseball.
Also, I know you don’t like comparring them to other teams, but context matters, does it not? Average is average, regardless of if you like it or not. Teams strikeout a lot anymore. The average amount of strikeouts per game per team is about nine. Striking out 10, 11, or even 12 times a game really isn’t all that bad anymore when every team is doing it.
Every team ks alot so it’s okay that the Bucs do too
Horrible logic
Atlanta doesn’t k in double digits like this team does
I’m done with this thread
Every team also doesn’t hit 300+ home runs a year or score nearly 1000 runs in a season. Strikeouts aren’t a direct indicator of a good or bad team. That is all I’ve been saying. I don’t like strikeouts, but they’re a part of today’s game.
@theman, they are not last in the NL runs scored let alone all of MLB. Yes they could improve on their plate discipline, but they re a pretty young team. Plenty of room for growth and improvement.
An out is still an out and you only get three per inning. They are rally killers.
Video game matrixs do not apply to the real world.
Not all strikeouts are created equal. Taking a nuclear swing with 2 outs and no one on and whiffing is not the same as doing it with no one out and a runner on second or third. Where this team struggles is in the art of “wasting” pitches – sticking your bat out and fouling off a pitcher’s pitch to live for another day.
Because they’re relatively young, most of the Pirates do not seem to understand the concept of looking to hit the ball the other way, which goes hand-in-hand with not striking out. My suspicion, without looking up the numbers, is that the Phillies put the ball in play more often with runners on base than the Pirates do and strikeout more with the bases empty – hence the difference in runs.
Pundit- The Phillies purchased solid ML hitters who were drafted and developed by some other team.
Many have the common sense to hit differently with two strikes.
Common sense is not common with every team.
Yes,Phillie hitters have more power so they strike out a lot.
Pirate hitters do not have much power,so they do not have that excuse.
The Pirates do not have adequate hitting instruction in the minor leagues or on the major league team.
This is especially true when you look at the non power hitters like Bae and Marciano and Endy.It is highly illustrative of the lack of good coaching when you watch them hit.
As many rest days are given and few lefty starters there are and as few innings starters go Jack is pretty much a every day player if he can hit righties.
They have to do something different this off season than they have in recent years. They have to sign a SP who Figueroa to be with them for at least a few years.
Increases cost and risk. Decreases surplus value. Rather try to get the next Anderson Quintana Velasquez.
Something different would be selling the team to an ownership group that actually cares and will bring in free agents and impact players
So you want the Pirates to never be good. Why?
Yes, just like the Mets and the Padres. Look at the season they are having after spending big. Oops, the top three payrolls (Yankees, Mets, Padres) did not make the playoffs. Two of the bottom four payrolls made the playoffs.
No new ownership group will operate much differently than they are now. Cuban was considering it several years ago. but did not like the financial model that the league operates under. Teams not in the largest markets can not regularly compete for titles as most teams can’t compete with the bidding on top players. Owners never pay for players out of their own pockets. They get and pay for the top players based on the revenue streams that their teams generate..
Future looks bright. Definitely a playoff contender next season.
C: Rodriguez
1B: Free-Agent or internal option like Triolo, Davis, or Joe/Andujar (not both)
2B: Triolo or Peguero (Bae will get some innings here as well)
SS: Cruz
2B: Hayes
LF: Reynolds
CF: Bae/Suwinski or FA
RF: Suwinski/Davis or FA
DH: Cutch
Bench: some combination of Delay, Bae, Joe/Andujar, Triolo, Peguero, and Davis depending on who wins position battles.
SP: Keller, FA/Trade Acquisition, Oviedo, and Skenes eventually. Last one or two spots will be a competition between Ortiz, Priester, Contreras, Falter at the start, with Jones, Solometo, Ashcraft, and Chandler factoring in eventually (and also Brubaker and Burrows once they return from injury).
BP: Bednar, Holderman, Mlodzinski, Moreta, Borucki, Hernandez, and some combination of the starters that don’t win rotation spots.
I’m excited to see who the Front Office adds in the offseason and who wins position battles next Spring Training.
Priester has looked fairly promising since his return. He’s had some clunker outings, but his sinker looks like an elite pitch, hitting the mid-90s and touching 97 MPH on occasion. I hope he gets one of the SP spots next season.
Did you have 2nd base listed twice don’t you mean 3b: HayesHayesp
The Pirates won’t finish higher than third in all of our lifetimes. The earliest could quite possibly be the great grandchildren generation when baseball will be so watered down there will a franchise in Morocco.
Are you younger than 8 years old? Otherwise you’ve already seen them finish higher than third.
I’m a fairly young individual and I’ve seen them finish higher than third 8 times. Maybe don’t advertise your ignorance for all to see.
People should forgive Slider without Brains, he never has anything positive to say about anything Pirate related
I find Slider entertaining.
One never knows what he will say.
But his posts are good for amusement purposes only.
They have a nice ballpark. Happy?
All those words, and not one mention of either Bellinger or Montgomery?
If Pirates weren’t so risk adverse, this would be the ideal time to push their relatively small stack into the pot on both of those players. Additions of Jordan Montgomery and Cody Bellinger, along with return of O’Neil Cruz and arrival of Paul Skenes, would make Pirates the favorites in NL Central next year.
The only way they can get an above average free agent is via the kidnap. No one would go to Pittsburgh voluntarily
Tell that to Cutch and Carlos Santana Slider without Brains
Bc those two are arguably in the top ten of free agents and would easily double their guaranteed payroll commitments. Monty would be the better play if Nutting wants to splurge a little.
Scott- Bellinger is a comp to Kris Bryant.
How has that contract worked out for the Rockies?
The Pirates are wise in not grossly overpaying for free agents.
With so few good free agents no one should want their team to win the bidding war for the top names. Extending players who are willing is the best way to spend $.
Besides the fact that the Bucs aren’t going to pay them a combined $40-50m/yr, they aren’t coming to Pittsburgh. I like where we’re heading but we’re not a destination for top players. Had to overpay Hill, $8m, to come and start and promise to flip him to a contender by the deadline.
The Pirates will never be the favorites in a beer league until they get rid of Haines and Shelton.
Their fundamentals are poor.
Although they have drafted well,they are not learning what it takes to win in the minor leagues.
Yes,for the first time in eight years they do have promise.
But they need to sign at least one bona fide starter like Sonny Gray and another like Clevinger to have a chance at competing for a division title next year.
They have a good bullpen,but we all know that that can be quixotic.
My true estimate this year was 73 wins,and I am pegging them for 83 next year assuming they get their normal solid but low key free agents.
Without major changes that is as good as it will get.
Although they have drafted well,
=============================
Have they drafted well?
2016-2018-Nothing
2019-Triolo?
2020-Gonzalez & Mlodzinski as the 1-7 & 1-31 picks?
2021-Davis as the 1-1?
Too early for 2022-23, but that doesn’t look like that much.
2019 included Quinn Priester. 2020 also gave the Pirates Jared Jones in the second round. 2021 also got them Anthony Solometo, Bubba Chandler, and Lonnie White Jr.. 2022 got them Termarr, as well as pitching prospects Michael Kennedy, Jack Brannigan, and Thomas Harrington, and Tres Gonzalez. 2023 included Skenes and Zander Mueth. Jones and Solometo are top 100 prospects now, White Jr. and Chandler probably had the best second halves of any Pirates propsects, Harrington and Brannigan had outstanding 2023 seasons, and Gonzalez was pretty solid this year. Mueth is another high ceiling pitching prospect. Priester has already made the Major Leagues (albiet with some growing pains), but has looked much more promising over his last few outings.
Who cares about 2016 2018. Those were weak draft classes and there’s a reason previous management was fired and current management went to full rebuild.
2020 was a weak draft class with limited scouting and rounds. Gonzales was a ok pick. Jones fantastic.
2021 was about saving $ in round 1. They got 2 1st round pitchers because of this. The ss might not have signed with Pittsburgh or would cost more $. Davis may have been the best and only reasonable option.
2022 everyone would have taken TJ there. If he misses it isn’t because he was a bad pick.
2023 everyone is taking Skenes. Can’t be a bad pick.
Later round picks for both years were fine.
Joe Brady- Please see mlb and Dream responses as they both know a whole lot more than me in response to your response to me.
I remember Will Craig and Cole Tucker as recent Pirate #1’s so you and I would have been better in comparison.
The key to the Pirates is whether these young at least reasonably good draft picks can be taught to play the game and play it in the fundamental way.
That is the $1000 question.
83 wins will get them into the playoffs this year. By that logic, it’s more sound to take a low-risk approach of signing free agents. Improving by 10 wins is no easy task.
They gain 10 wins by having the manager either not tank to lose games or send him to how to manage high school baseball 101 class. I don’t know if he trying to not win or somehow been in baseball all his life and doesn’t know the most fundamental things. Will find out next year because if they don’t win management could be even should be fired.
Dream-I honestly think that if Nutting does shell out real money for a bona ride starter that he will expect them to start to win in a similiar manner as the 2013-2015 team.
Hopefully Shelton takes the courses that you suggest and realizes that it is a different ball game going from 73 to 83 then to 93 wins.
I just saw the Tuesday and Thursday Phillie games.Pirate management needs to determine who wants to be fundamentally sound as the talent is much higher than previous teams but the little things like turning double plays is what will keep them from getting to a high level.
And,yes,Derek will in essence be on the hot seat because even though Nutting is a hands off owner who does not know a lot about baseball he is a good businessman who knows at a certain point his team has to win.People at that level know when someone is jsut giving them excuses.
They are a 80 win team this year if they didn’t let Jack keep getting destroyed by LHP, set up double play when next run wins, pinch hit for much better matchup in key situation, didn’t play the worst looking outfielder I ever seen who also is the worst looking catcher I ever seen. You take these 6th and 7th starters and openers out of the rotation and they are in the wild card hunt. Win total better start with a 8 next year or Shelton has to go. Maybe Cherington as well if the prospects aren’t looking good. Foundation is in place though for whoever the 2025 gm is. Now imagine if they didn’t lose 3 starting pitchers for the season or Contreras arm didn’t fall off. Or if they kept Santana Choi Hill. Looks like a 500 ish team. They just didn’t try to be one. And good because the trades were awesome and if Jack could some how hit LHP….. And the higher the draft pick the better 9 or 10 is better than 14 15 or whatever.
Shelledton has nowhere to hide in 2024.
Yankee- It was easy after they won the equivalent of 51 wins in 2020.
Not so easy after winning 73 this year.
But to go from 83 to 93 and guarantee a good playoff spot is quite difficult and would only be done with a team that has good fundamentals,wants to win and is not lackadaisical,is augmented with good free agents,and has a fine manager and system wide coaches.
Will that team be the Pirates?
Pitching upgrades and depth (internal or free agents/trades) have to be the top priority for this team. It will be interesting to see what they’re able to come up with, they should be able to afford a “mid” pitcher – someone in the $12-$15 million AAV range – provided the length of the contract isn’t too long.
That being said, one item that was totally overlooked in this article is the uncertain future of the Pirates’ telecasts and the revenue it will provide. While the media is incredibly lazy and simply reports that Nutting is a cheapskate, the reality is far more complex:
– As part of an ownership group, Bob Nutting can neither unilaterally raise the payroll budget or invest his own money to raise payroll. The only way Nutting, as the principal owner, can do so is with the approval of the ownership group or prorated investments by the minority owners to match whatever Nutting would add based on their shares.
– The Pittsburgh market is still in decline. The population is aging while baseball in general is losing the battle for young fans. The market, at best, could sustain total operating costs of around $150 million (all major and minor league salaries, the rent they owe for PNC Park, employee salaries, etc.). This all but precludes the Pirates from ever having multiple $20+ million players on long-term contracts while also being able to field a competitive and deep roster.
– The media almost seems to go out of their way to blame Bob Nutting, while intentionally ignoring the growing gap between the haves and the have-nots. When a market such as Washington DC cannot afford the commitment it would have taken to keep Juan Soto, red flags should have gone off. Top talent legitimately only has maybe 6 markets who can afford them, the rest are risking massive financial losses or years of horrible teams trying to sign any impact player. To wit, the list of teams who can legitimately bid on Shohei Ohtani is a very short one.
Their home attendance increased on average 5000 fans per game this season so it’s hardly true that the market is in decline
Though I do agree that there’s 2 tiers in baseball, the haves and have nots
The “market” in the sense of people who can and will attend games (and also afford to go to games). Pittsburgh is aging and was losing population at an alarming rate until the past few years. There are essentially half as many people to draw from compared to 50 years ago, and of those remaining, a larger percentage of them are on fixed incomes who can’t afford games.
Adding 5000 in attendance from one season to the next is at best $500K in additional revenue, which doesn’t even cover one league-minimum salary. The Pirates need several years of trending increasing attendance to legitimately budget that revenue into a payroll, while the available pool of fans who will attend games continues to shrink.
They will be televised. Either tv or streaming. Whoever pays the most $. Doubtful it will be the same amount of revenue. They will need to win to make more $ now.
I’m not sure if Steve watches a great deal of Pirates games or relies on stats or analytics, but there are thoughts both here and in his chat that have me wondering.
Given the revolving door that the Pirates have had with their minor league prospects, Peguero and Triolo have given fans a great deal of hope. The former slots in as the starter at 2nd while I’d hope the latter gets a long look at 1st base. Yeah, he’s been a 3rd baseman but his defensive prowess would lead one to believe he can handle it
Not sure how anyone mentions Joe and Rivas(?) as possible outfield candidates when guys like Palacios and Andujar have looked markedly better at the plate and in the field.
If I had to bet, I’d say Keller and Oviedo will obviously be the 1-2 punch for starters, but beyond that the mention of any of the guys at AAA as being ready when the team comes north is somewhat problematic. Maybe someone will make a huge jump between now and late March, but it’s about as iffy as Ortiz winning a spot or one of the three surgically repaired pitchers being ready. Point is, let’s hope Cherington sees the team as ready to contend and spends a bit more on a couple arms
They have a nice core here and while the play of the young guys may not be analytically astounding, bringing Cruz back into a mix that includes Reynolds, Hayes, Endy, Suwinski ( hopefully with a refined hitting approach) and yes, Davis, means having 3 starting pitchers and 2 reliever games should be a bad 2023 memory
⁷Nutting would be foolish to not try and win. Now is a critical and ideal time to do so. Cherington should be allocated a 100 million payroll at minimum. And that is enough.
LF Reynolds Joe Andujar
CF Suwinski Bae Reynolds
RF Davis Joe Andujar
3b Hayes Tri
SS Cruz Williams Peguero
2b Peguero Williams Bae Triolo Gonzales Marcano if makes 40 man
1b Tri Joe Andujar Rivas if survives 40 man. Cruz if ankle is weak. Davis if he can’t do rf but can do 1b
C Endy Delay
DH Cutch
Don’t have to sign any position players.
Rotation. Keller Oviedo for sure. 1 or 2 free agents will be needed. Handful of guys to compete for 5th starter. Bullpen is fine. Handful of prospects will be ready to replace injuries arm wise. Not as much position wise but with so many versatile veterans it won’t be needed.
Sign 1 or 2 starters and call it a day.
Openers and piggy backs are just to find out who can do what and is going to make 40 man. Exactly what they should be doing this season.
Yeah. Agree 100%, although Williams is simply a luxury if it comes down to numbers. How do you keep him over, say, Palacios? No way
I think the Pirates methodology this season was to take a look at everyone deemed “almost ready” and they’ve done that and were competitive in the process. Remarkable in that they did it with two reliever games in their starting staff
I don’t think Williams is going to survive the first few days of the offseason on the 40-man, when the team has to add back everyone currently on the 60-day IL.
Capra is also a slam dunk to get a DFA. I suspect they will shop some of the middle infield depth to look for pitching – though at this point their spare parts would probably not fetch all that much.
Joe and Andujar don’t really have places on this team moving forward if the Pirates are looking to improve. I don’t dislike either, but those two and Rivas might find it difficult to remain on the 40-man. At least Andujar is boosting his offseason trade value.
As far as FA pitching, I would personally be looking at Shota Imanaga in the NPB. A smaller fish than Yamamato, but he’s lefty with outstanding control. Jordan Montgomery if they decide to swing for the fences. Severino or Montas if they’re looking for bounceback guys who could be somewhat good; maybe a flier on Jose Urena or Chris Flexen for guys on the cheap who could serve as depth.
I read Steve’s chat transcript and as far as pitching goes, you’re right in line with his thinking. You’d think that ownership can afford to spend a bit more on at least middling starting pitching, what with the idea of possibly contending now a complete possibility. Instead, the consensus seems to be another off season of reclamation projects, albeit a bit younger
I’d like to think Oviedo can be more consistent or that Ortiz can provide quality starts like we saw tonight but I’m just not there yet
I do not understand the Andujar situation here. I don’t think anyone does. Is he in the doghouse? Is he a bad influence? I can’t remember any player with his background being used in such a manner. That is, a guy who had one helluva rookie season, got hurt and hit difficulties, came to the Pirates to work his way back. Has to be something more to the story
Every team needs pitching. Getting in a bidding war with reckless spenders is a bad idea. And remember Pittsburgh has to pay more than many other teams. They may surprise if they see something they can improve but they been so good with the lower end.
Williams isn’t a sure thing but if Cruz can’t play ss he will be. Should be either way. His numbers vs rhp are almost average minus having power. So if you combine that with his glove he is a starting ss. Peguero can play vs lefty starters. But why can’t he hit lhp? Why did Tampa trade him for a rental reliever? Maybe this is his peak if Tampa is so smart still.
Palacios can factor in as well. If Davis or Cruz are playing RF someone needs to go. Good problem to have.
Andujar arb3 then free agent in 2025 I believe. Lots of grounders. Doesn’t walk a ton. Small sample size of being good but crushes lhp in it.
Palacios cheap and tons of team control. Larger sample size. But only average.
Joe they are willing to play at 1b. Crushes lhp. 4 years of control. Has the plate approach they love. Unless blown away on a trade he will be back in 2024. The other 2 I don’t know but Palacios is cheap for many years vs 1 more year.
Fortunate- I understand the consensus thinking on Williams but he is the only good ML shortstop that the Pirates have.
Said this to you earlier but again, the weak hitting Pirates SS seems to be a trend going back to Freddie Patek
Good that you and Dream see something exemplary in him. I simply don’t. And with Termarr on the horizon, no clue as to where he fits. Again, he’s a luxury on a good team that builds leads, as he can come in as your defensive replacement
Dream misunderstands me where getting starting pitching is concerned. Yeah, everyone needs it but “there are levels to this” free agent shtick. All I’m saying is that jumping a couple levels above the reclamation projects that would bring the likes of a Keuchel/Syndergaard/Carasco here would be nice for a team set to contend. Your idea of Sonny Gray would be nice, but that is likely too rich for a front office that also needs to extend Keller
I can live with the idea of Joe being here—although he’s no 1st baseman. But again, Palacios has been a welcome addition and even given what Dream has listed, Andujar is a guy whom they’ll regret dropping. To me, the guy is re-finding himself
Fortunate-Andujar to me needs to play regularly to see what he can do.He May be lackadaisical.He is an OK fielder who they did not play at first base even though they needed someone there and he played there in AAA.On a team with few if any good hitters they played him sporadically.This dictum may very well have come from BC.
I think that the main reason is that he only has one year of control.They also seem to love Connor Joe.They also wanted to find out about the young players and only had so many at bats to go around.BC and Shelton May also not be the brightest bulbs in the pack.
I really do think that he can hit ML pitching if given a chance but my feeling is that they will sign him but try to trade him.
He could slot in in right field or first base next year if he impresses in spring training.
And the Pirates will not have any more excuses next year to not have a reasonably good winning team.
Fortunate- We do not disagree,and I could have been clearer.
Williams needs to hit a lot more than 580 ops to stick.
But seeing the first and third Phillies games in person made me long for him at shortstop.
Peguero cannot play there.Hopefully Cruz improves.But tell me a very good team with a mediocre or less fielding shortstop
Freddie Patek was a pretty good hitter too.
The three starters that you mention are no longer ML pitchers.It would be wasted money.
I have unfortunately since realized that Sonny Gray would be a pipe dream.
Palacios is a good pinch hitter and spare outfielder but who is clearly below average in the outfield.
And Andujar just has the one year of control which this small market team believes makes him a trade candidate.
Last year was massive over pays. This year looks to be same or even more due to supply demand. What level did you want? 3 39m for 5 something era Anderson? 12m for Heany 4 something era and awful 13m player option. Clevinger seemed like solid deal yet no one wanted him on trade or waivers probably for good reason. Manaea 2 25m 4 something era can’t even start has to be used out of pen. Quintana would have been good if healthy but he missed over half the season. Smyly almost 5 era 2 years. Stripling 2 25m almost 6 era. Syndergaard 13m for a almost 7 era. Taillon still has 3 more years at 18m each and had a 5 era. Boyd 5 and half era 10m.
Sure there were a few ok and even good deals. You have faith the Pirates can find them? Do these players want to play in Pittsburgh? Made playoffs 3 times in 30 years none in last 8. Pirates don’t do player options and no trade clause and rightfully so. But many contracts have these because most other teams will give them. Pittsburgh gets guys other teams don’t want.
They nailed their reclamation project 3 years in a row. Why wouldn’t they try that again? They could easily afford to play in the 30 to 80 million range but it’s risky. Much better to put $ into extensions.
Yep, you’ve provided the sobering truth and the bottom line. And you’re right, they had enormous success with their reclamation projects
The fly in the ointment is that signing these types of pitchers is often a crap shoot. How many teams have signed similar types of pitchers who either never made more than a handful of starts or performed miserably?
Hope for the best and that the young guns mature and make these types of signings unnecessary in the future
Shelton’s brilliance shines through again today.
I thought that he did not want to do back to backs this late in the season with young pitchers so he brings in Colin Shelby to pitch to five batters after Borucki gets the first out in the eighth inning.Only after does he bring Carmen M in.
Of course Colin gets no one out and throws the game.Or should I say Shelton does.
He either flunked managing 101 or is losing intentionally to increase the odds of a higher draft choice.
I have given him a Mulligan on the ridiculous batting lineups as they are probably dictated to him but relief pitcher usage has to be on him.
One thing determined though is Colin is not a ML pitcher so they will have that spot open on the 40 man roster.
In my opinion, Shelton just doesn’t like pitchers. Hard to come up with any other reason for his constant misuse (abuse) of pitchers.
Skeptical-With all due respect,I am skeptical of your opinion.
I think that it can be attributed to simple stupidity.
With a 3 run lead, I wondered why Shelton didn’t use Holderman in the 8th as he’s been the regular set up pitcher all year
Instead he used Shelby who has an ERA of over 5 and he went on to blow the game
Shelton’s the worst manager in baseball
Paul- Holderman is on the IL.
My point was bring in Carmen M if you can use him anyway.
It does not seem to matter to Shelton whether he wins or not as he may not have wanted to pitch Bednar.
I forgot about Holderman being on the IL though Shelton could have used Bednar for a 6 out save, rather than using Selby, who at his best, still stinks
They shut down Keller because they did not want to “do one last ski run before the end of the day.”
I doubt very much that they would let Bednar throw two for that very same reason.
But he could have used Carmen M and Bednar two days in a row.
Bednar is getting tired but they owe an obligation to baseball integrity to do their best against potential playoff teams.
I have been saying for a year and half that Shelton will be the governor in maxing out the potential annual win total.
The question is whether BC is in the same boat.
9 strike outs in 6 innings, the logic that they don’t matter is an absurd defense in tonight’s game
These young players swing wildly at pitches no where near the plate and with runners in scoring position
Bae should try bunting for a hit and I still question why Shelton doesn’t take advantage of his speed. Then again I question every decision Shelton makes especially his lineups
Paul- I believe that I have evolved just like the fish who first came onto land.
I am skeptical as to whether Shelton is totally the master of his ship.
From reading about Kapler,and thinking about other first time managers like Shelton ,it now seems to me that the lineups are basically dictated by the Front Office,that be Cherington,and formed by statistical review.Hence the ludicrous ones that have been spit out.Methinks that that was made clear to him before he was hired.
Statistics should be heavily used but not to dictate anything.
I doubt that Bochy or Baker would put up with this.
Strikeouts do matter.I believe that it is Joe Brady’s contention that the ratio to walks should be no more than 2 to 1.
Power hitters do strike out. My guess is that 25% is a fairly good % for them.
Bae to me is the perfect example of someone who has been rushed to the majors so that they could get an inkling as to whether he can play there.
He should be bunting once every other game.
He is easily the fastest Pirate runner to first base that I recall because his starts are so quick.Marte was as quick going all out as his gait was effortless but they are both very fast runners.
Him and Davis should start next season in AAA to work on fielding their normal positions and learning their new positions.
And Bae would have to bunt every game.
They struck out 14 times last night with drawing only one walk. It’s become embarrassing watching these guys swinging at pitches nowhere near the plate
Shelton is sitting both Hayes and Reynolds in the season finale and I will predict that they will strike out again in double digits
I get it that it’s the last game of the season but Shelton should still be trying to win. My guess is they won’t
A left handed pitcher with an ERA of over 6 shutout this team for 6 innings and in the 7th inning the Bucs have just 3 hits and have struck out 8 times
Shelton is like Matt Canada, neither really want to win games
Bae needs to return to Indy next year, he swings at pitches nowhere near the plate
This team has so many problems it’s hard to know where to start