The Giants have fired manager Gabe Kapler, according to a club announcement.
“After making this recommendation to ownership and receiving their approval, I met with Gabe today to inform him of our decision,” reads a statement from president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi. “In his tenure as Giants manager, Gabe led our team through an unprecedented pandemic in 2020 and a franchise-record 107 wins and postseason berth in 2021. He has been dedicated and passionate in his efforts to improve the on-field performance of the San Francisco Giants and I have tremendous respect for him as a colleague and friend. On behalf of the Giants organization, we wish Gabe the best of luck in his future endeavors and thank him for his contributions over the last four years.”
Kapler was three games away from completing his fourth season at the helm for San Francisco. During his tenure, the team has gone 295-248 (.543), although much of that success came during a single winning campaign. In 2021, the Giants shocked the baseball world, going 107-55 and briefly dethroning the Dodgers atop the NL West. Kapler was named NL Manager of the Year; he subsequently signed an extension running through the 2024 campaign.
However, the Giants have gone 159-162 (.495) since, failing to make playoffs in each of the past two seasons. This year has been especially disappointing, as the team was firmly entrenched in the Wild Card race until mid-September. They have now lost ten of their last 13 and were officially eliminated from contention late on Tuesday night. This marks the second time Kapler has lost his job amid similar circumstances. He was fired by the Phillies in October 2019 following two straight seasons in which Philadelphia failed to make the playoffs. In both years, the Phillies were in the Wild Card conversation until a disappointing September collapse knocked them out of the race.
Not long ago, Giants chairman Greg Johnson expressed in no uncertain terms that Zaidi and Kapler would both be back with the team in 2024. More recently, however, Zaidi made some comments on KNBR radio that suggested Kapler might be on the hot seat after all.
When asked about Kapler’s job status, the executive answered, “I think we all just have to look at how we can improve across the board. That’s the personnel on the roster, that’s our culture in the clubhouse. … When you’re in do-or-die games like those games in Arizona, you want them to feel different. And I think we’re really going to have to ask ourselves if we were prepared to sort of elevate our level of focus and play for those games that really mattered down the stretch.”
Evidently, the Giants do not feel as if Kapler’s managerial style is conducive to a winning clubhouse atmosphere. This lines up with some recent comments from Giants ace Logan Webb, who told reporters on Monday (including Curtis Pashelka of The Mercury News), “We have to make some big changes in here to create that winning culture.”
There is little point in speculating about clubhouse atmosphere from outside, but as for the team’s on-field results, Kapler cannot be held responsible for all the Giants’ problems. As spring training began, the PECOTA projection system from Baseball Prospectus had San Francisco pegged for an 82-win season. FanGraphs Depth Charts projected 83 wins for the Giants on Opening Day. As things currently stand, the team is on pace to finish with 79 or 80 wins, and they could still win as many as 81. That’s well within the margin of error for a projection system. Thus, while the team’s performance in September has been disappointing, it’s hard to say they massively underperformed all year.
In more concrete terms, it’s not as if Kapler had a star-studded roster to work with. After Webb and closer Camilo Doval, the Giants don’t have many impact players. LaMonte Wade Jr., Mike Yastrzemski, Wilmer Flores, Joc Pederson, Thairo Estrada, and Michael Conforto are all solid contributors, but not exactly the players you picture at the heart of the order for a postseason club. Meanwhile, the rotation has been a sea of uncertainty behind Webb and Alex Cobb all year long.
Nevertheless, the Giants have decided to move on from Kapler, and they wasted no time in doing so. As Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle suggests, the question of whether or not Kapler would keep his job might have become too distracting, to a point where the team saw no reason to wait until the end of the year to make a change.
Susan Slusser was the first to report that Kapler had been relieved of his duties.
Manfred’s playing with the balls
Kapler and Zaidi both have done decent but not exceptional jobs. It seems like this move was going to happen this year or next. Zaidi’s seat just became the hottest in SF though
squishy
I’ve always felt like he needs a bit more time to see if any of his draft picks turn out before we start over again. Bailey looks like a long term answer at catcher for the giants, curious to see how the rest of his picks turn out.
Simm
Bailey has never been a decent hitter. Had one hot month and since been terrible at the plate. I know some will say fatigue or concussion but it started before that. Facts are his track record says he can’t hit for nothing.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Dude. It’s been 96 games.
Simm
And his entire minor league career
Giantssadfan
So True
agnes gooch
Bailey is playing with a concussion now, I think he is still suffering with the symptoms
🙁
believeitornot
Two negatives make a positive so you are saying he’s a good hitter.
astrosrule
He certainly got hosed on the Dubon trade with Houston.
Ernie Riles
Dubon an ok bench guy, but not a difference maker. Estrada beat him out in SF.
Would have been nice to trade him for more than a bag of balls, though. Would have preferred a mediocre reliever to the minor league catcher we got.
mab51357
The other thing about Dubon is he just isn’t very baseball smart. Can’t comment on that now because I don’t watch him with Houston. He got run out of San Francisco be cause of his many boneheaded baserunning mistakes that actually cost the Giants a few times. All he would do is smile that goofy smile and not take it seriously. It rubbed a lot of the veteran players the wrong way and Kapler despised him because of his lack of baseball smarts and not taking the game serious enough. He has some hitting and fielding talent but his head is off in the clouds a lot of time. The thing I’ll give Kapler and coaches credit for were working with him a lot and they were really patient with him but it started costing a game or two and the patience evaporated by coaches, players and fans. It was time for him to go.
VANTABLACK
Watching him run bases was painful and all with a rather misplaced confidence.
People always referred to him as a kid. Like this kid is going to be great some day. And we waited and waited and then realized this kid is 29 years old now…
I was very glad to see him go.
mab51357
VANTABLACK: He couldn’t be trusted on the bases and his maturity level, as you implied, didn’t meet his actual age. The Giants would have taken half a bag of balls for him. That’s how badly the Giants wanted him gone. Hopefully he is correcting his downfall and turns into a decent player. Haven’t looked at stats/numbers but I remember a story saying he was a more than capable replacement when Altuve missed all that time earlier this year, and was even called a savior by teamates when Altuve was down. Sounds like he’s learning finally.
DakotaJoe
I’m a Phillies fan and did not like the job he did here. Although he seemed to be much better with the Giants. I really believe they overachieved with the roster they have – especially this year. That lineup isn’t scaring anyone in any ballpark. Plus, their pitching is just okay considering the pitcher’s park they play in half the year.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – As someone who is all too familiar with Kapler’s background going back to the Red Sox and Dodgers, I agree he’s not manager material. Two years ago when everyone here was saying he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread, I’m the guy who said give it some time.
Let’s put it this way, I’d rather keep Cora as manager than replace him with Kapler … and many people know how I feel about Cora.
At least now Kapler will have lots of time to devote to fighting gun violence in America. Poor guy didn’t have any time for it while he was manager, except when he was at the park.
mab51357
Too many platoons and not handling his starting rotation well at all. It really ticked off most of his starting staff because other than Webb and Cobb the other starters had no idea when they would pitch again. Tried to be too clever with the new trend of openers. Openers were used 2-3 times a week. And his platooning ticked off a lot of guys also.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Zaidi is fine. He inherited a bad situation with a lot of bad veteran contracts. Most of those have been cleared out now. And if you look at payroll they don’t have a lot of big contracts. Biggest one to Logan Webb and that one is not bad. They can take some risks going forward in the free agency market and blend that in with prospects and reclamation projects. Similar formula as the Dodgers, but execution hasn’t been as good as the Dodgers.. But I’d much rather be the GM inheriting Zaidi’s situation compared to Preller’s.
Simm
I’d much rather be in the padres position than the giants. The padres have a better roster and a better minor league system. Plus an owner willing to spend more.
People point to contracts like Xanders but Xander has been worth his 25m this year and likely will continue to be worth it for several years to come.
Giants have one stud and that’s Webb, the rest of the roster is a band of misfits. I’ll take my chances with the padres near future roster over the giants.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Signing bad FA contracts is not an accomplishment. Any GM can do that if their team spends. It’s unfair to compare SD and SF rosters when one spends a lot more than the other, and one has risked their future with lengthy expensive contracts. Bogaerts and Cronenworth contracts will not age well. Machado did not earn his contract in 2023. And he’s not exactly a character guy that you trust with a LT contract. I do think the Giants will spend in the right opportunity. And now that they’ve cleared payroll they’re in a better situation to spend. Zaidi does need to get more aggressive in FA market but I have no ideas what his mandates are internally.
That said, Giants do need to improve their farm system as they’ve had too many misses and not enough players developing and producing at MLB level. If you can’t find that cheap talent to blend with pricier FAs you cannot be successful as an MLB team.
mlbdodgerfan2015
I’m also not a fan of the Padre contracts of cheaper in the beginning and a lot more expensive at the back end, together with lengthening contracts. We all understand what they’re trying to accomplish shorter-term but longer-term it will guarantee that they’ll have to dump those contracts. These gimmicks to cram more expensive talent near-term is basically trying to financial engineer a WS by any means in the short-term while risking your future. It’s too much short-term thinking.
sanfranb27
I believe that part of the problem FZ had signing big bats was that those bats believe they won’t play well in a pitchers park or don’t like the way GK managed the hitters
Simm
Padres really haven’t risked their future unless you want to say 7 years from now. They are in a great spot to win for at least the next 5 years. They have the talent and quite frankly almost every metric says they should have won this year. Extra inning games and 1 run games can flip from one year to the next. The padres will be a strong team next year and they will spend this offseason again to fill in any holes they have. The bottom line is the padres owner is as committed as anyone to winning now.
Hexbreaker
@Simm
Agree about the Padres, A +98 run differential should have a better record than .500.
It’s kind of crazy they have a better RD than the Blue Jays, Phillies, Brewers, Cubs, Diamondbacks, and Marlins… who’s RD is -57!
Ma4170
I like xander but i dont think he earned his contract this year… great first and last month and pretty terrible 4 months in between
JackStrawb
Spending $330m to nail down Machado through age 40 rather than have $33m AAV to spend this offseason elsewhere was one of the most bizarre moves I’ve ever seen a FO make. The Darvish extension might have been worse wrt expected results—but only the lesser money involved made it less harebrained.
SDP must have looked at all the insane deals being thrown around and been afraid to be shut out of the ;non-superstar, 30+m AAV for players in their 30s; market. Machado’s a fine player who’s been worth 5.4 rWAR per 650 PA the last 4 seasons, or 5.1 rWAR over the last 3 seasons. Not a player you’re eager to lock down for the entirety of his decline phase and the first 3 years of his retirement.
Simm
Manny deal was done by Seidler. He was t letting him leave period
filihok
Ma
FanGraphs’ methodology had Bogaerts’ performance being worth $35.5 million. That’s $10 million more than the AAV of his contract. So, well worth his contract
Feel free to explain your methodology and how you’ve concluded that he didn’t earn his contract this year.
Ma4170
@fili
Fangraphs methodology can tell you all it wants about contract value, and from my perspective consistently overvalues player worth. Looking at numbers doesnt tell the whole story, but if you think his equal a $35m player, I’d question that judgment. Ill say it again… two hot months sandwiched around 3 well below average months and one barely above average. 2/3 of the season he hurt the team more than helped. The total aggregate numbers become misleading vs day to day performance, but thats get lost when people just look at totals.
Not a clever name
Dodger fan I dispute that machado isn’t a character guy. I spend a lot of time in SD for work and the padre fans love him. I think LA was too big a spot light for him and dodger fans are still mad about his lack of hustle, but that’s just not who he was. He strikes me more as a Bonds type. If he’s on your team you love him if he’s not you love to hate him. But he’s actually pretty good with the local media and seems to get along with his teammates in SD from what I can tell.
Not a clever name
@jack not that crazy regardless of record and playoff chances you see that place packed and Machado jerseys in every other seat. I don’t particularly like him but I get it. SF had Bonds for over a decade, it never gave the Giants a WS win and only one appearance, but if bonds had left in 02’ 60k people including me and my brothers would have showed up with pitch forks in their hands for opening day.
mlbdodgerfan2015
He’s incredibly immature, which led to lack of hustle and idiotic incident at 1B against the Brewers.
I’m not bitter about Machado at all. Didn’t cost Dodgers much for the rental. He didn’t perform well though and the Dodgers didn’t think he was worth a long-term contract. And they were right. Character is certainly a factor with Machado when deciding on giving out a long-term contract. But that decision was mostly baseball related. He can be a very good offensive/defensive player but he can also be a liability in the clubhouse which is magnified when he has an off year at the plate like this year.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Also, unless you’re in the clubhouse you wouldn’t know how the players actually feel about him or Tatis. Fans will support players even with questionable character. But I do agree that chemistry/character is overrated. At the end of the day it’s about results, and baseball at least on offense is one of the most individualistic team sports. Machado has now produced two sub 0.800 OPS seasons in SD out of five seasons. That is not good. And Tatis just put up his worst OPS in his career, 0.770 versus career average of 0.896. This is coincidentally after the PED suspension. Hmmm.
mlbdodgerfan2015
If Tatis and Machado don’t OPS below 0.800 in same season they’re likely in the playoffs. Machado’s 0.782 lowest since 2017 as an Oriole. Tatis had a career low OPS of 0.770, which is 126 points below his career average of 0.896. We can talk run differential all we want but there are two main reasons why the Padres aren’t in the playoffs and these are two of your elite superstar players..
mlbdodgerfan2015
Fangraphs also said that Mookie’s 2023 season was worth $66mm. I guess he’s massively underpaid. No, as a Dodger fan I don’t think Betts should be paid anywhere close to $66mm. And Mookie’s 2018 season was worth $84 million. This gets better and better. No baseball team would stay in business if they actually had to pay these ridiculous theoretical values or anything close. Also, it’s disingenuous to compare to AAVs when the Padres have been stretching contract lengths. You’d have to knock 2-3 years off the Bogaerts contract to get to the true AAV. In any case, the Padres are massively overpaying for Bogaerts.
filihok
MLBDF
It’s not “too much short-term thinking”.
Every team, and everyone, values the present and the future differently.
Also, so many fans fail to take the time value of money into account. Back loaded contracts even out with inflation.
mlbdodgerfan2015
Even if you account for inflation at about a 4% clip at the beginning of Machado’s contract in 2023, you’re looking at an implied $29mm, $28mm, $27mm, $26mm for Machado’s last four years of his contract when he will be getting a nominal $40mm per year between salary/bonus. He will of course most likely be producing well short of what he produced in 2023. Heck, he may not even be playing the last few years of his contract.
filihok
Ma
I trust FG a lot more than I trust, you. If you, you know, presented some evidence to support your position, perhaps that would change.
Also, the overall performance is very much what matters. I haven’t looked at the splits, but if he sucked for 2 months, he must have been scalding for a few months as well to out up an overall excellent season
But, lay out your case
Ma4170
Fili
Fangraphs financial player valuation is so impractical, it’s borderline laughable, but thats a different debate. His ops by month was 914, 546, 699, 769, 652, and 1122. One amazing month at the end, one very good month, one average, and three well below average months. His park adjusted numbers inflate his apparent value, but they’re almost irrelevant since his home OPS is 100 points higher than road, so its not the ballpark holding him back. And his underlying peripherals show that he actually benefitted from good luck vs bad fortune (his xBA and xSLG are much lower than actual). His final overall numbers are solid, but IMO not worth $25M+ a year to any GM that would want to keep his job. 285-351-440 83r 19hr 58rbi 19sb
mlbdodgerfan2015
You’re joking. What is it with Padre fans and excuse making. If anything as poster below noted he caught on fire when Padres were already out of playoffs. Gee thanks for showing up when it didn’t matter Bogaerts. He’s not worth $25mm let alone the real $31mm ($280mm/9 years), which is the real adjusted AAV.
Giantssadfan
And the Johnson’s need to now Fire Farhan and start cleaning house, new coaches, players, staff, all during winter offseason….
Deadguy
Kapler and Shildt were both fired but Oliver Marmol remains? Mozeliaks job must be alot safer than Zaidi?
Congrats to Kapler though, getting that paycheck then quiting like most 30 year old star multimillion dollar dudes do? Oh wait, my apologies, all apologies
citizen
Kapler is fired by Zaidi since Zahidi blames Kepler for a bad team he put together, even by holding on to Bart. Cardinals blamed the entire losing season on the catcher, Melvin will be fired since Preller is covering for bad signings in carpenter, et al
Col_chestbridge
I’ve been reading a few Francona tributes recently, and the thing that I keep coming away with is that Francona’s job has never been to be the master strategy guy. That’s more of a group discussion with the front office guys, the analytics folks, the “quality control” coach, and at most what he does is deliver those decisions in a gentle way. The thing Tito did was relate to the players, and have jokes ready to diffuse tense situations.
Tito has a number of disciples in the league right now – Cash, Baldelli, Cora, etc – it’s not farfetched to say that teams are trying to duplicate that. So if the job of a manager is really no longer to be the master strategist, and it’s mostly at just being the guy good at interpersonal stuff, it’s going to be impossible for outsiders to really say if a manager is actually good or not going forward.
The most you can really say is that a manager who has been around for multiple losing seasons might not have enough credibility with the guys to get through anymore. But that argument kind of falls down when you see the Orioles’ turnaround with Hyde.
On field success is far more dictated by the moves of the front office. Zaidi and company know they have a couple of years (at most) to turn it around. They have a favorable balance sheet and farm system to work with.
slidepiece
Taking the holier than now knee against the greatest country in history. Karma comes after you eventually AntifaCHAZ.
briar-patch thatcher
They are definitely tapped in to MLBTR. Needed to happen. Farhan, watch out!
frugalfarhan
You built this awful team Farhan and instead of stepping down you let Gabe fall on the sword. Not a sign of a great leader at all when you blame someone else for the mess you created. If this leads to you getting fired after next year which it will then it will have been worth it but this wasn’t Gabes fault
shortstop
Not like he was going to fire himself, lol
filihok
FF
Spoken like someone speaking from ignorance
The F/O is responsible for managing the roster and compiling the information needed to get the best performance from those players
The coaching staff is responsible for implementing the information from the F/O, communicating the info to the players and managing personalities
Whether the coaching staff or front office was successful or not is largely independent of the teams record – especially over the course of a single season.
There could be a reason to fire a manager after a 100+ win season. Or a reason to extend them after a 100 loss season.
And most people commenting on whether Kapler should be fired or not, sre commenting from a point of ignorance. They are largely limited to seeing what happens on the field while most of what a manager does happens off the field.
LarsAnderson
We are all very lucky to have you in this thread to rectify all of our ignorance. Thanks bud.
filihok
LA
That’s the entire point of discussion, no?
nukeg
Insults are not discussion.
filihok
nukeg
Do you think ff has actual knowledge about the reason for Kapler’s firing? Or do you think ff is speaking from a position of ignorance?
Fred McGriff HR
@LarsAnderson
Whatever you do, don’t listen to a commenter(Filihack) who says “most of what a manager does happens off the field”. That particular commenter is full of himself and is also the king of obnoxiousness.
Franklin Souze
Farhan is a coward & as well as incompetent.
filihok
Franklin
Muted
You don’t come across as the type of thoughtful and nuanced commenter that I like to engage with
tangerinepony
Coward? Imcompetant? Have you looked in the mirror lately Franklin? Fahran making 7 figures and you call him incompetent? SMH
padam
Kind of funny coming from you after your earlier post.
Muted. Because you’re arrogant and ignorant.
kodiak920
A little salty.
Fred McGriff HR
Padam
Filihack should be muted by the whole of MLBTR commenters so he can talk to himself, one of the most arrogant and obnoxious commenters I have come across in all my years on this site. But wait, he’ll threaten you with ‘mute’ if you dare have a contrary view to his asinine posts.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
So pulling a starter too early or calling the wrong dude out of the pen isn’t a managers fault?
filihok
NS4L
1) How do you know it’s “too early” or the “wrong reliever”? This is not a rhetorical question, please answer
2) the manger needs to follow the direction of the front office. If they disagree, they need to discuss that during planning sessions
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
How do you know its too early?
Well when your pitcher, for instance, has pitched 5 2/3 innings of 2 hit ball no runs and is dominating in the world series. You pulled him to early especially since they went on to lose that game due to the pen blowing it. Double bad move on the manager part.
How do you know its the wrong reliever? When they constantly blow leads or gives up runs but the manager is hoping putting them back out there will right the ship eventually but instead cost the team wins.
filihok
NS4L
So, no actual way
Gotcha
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Listed 2 prime examples
Pulling a starter early that’s dominating.
Keep using pen guys that keep letting you down.
If that’s too complicated for you to understand that’s on you. Pretty simple concept for people with room temperature iq to understand.
Jean Matrac
NoSubscriptions4Lyfe,
You do realize that every manager has a ton more info at hand than any fan watching, right? Maybe that starter that dominated routinely get lit up the third time through the lineup. Maybe that reliever has had good success against the next couple of guys due up?
Making a move that fails is not an indication that the manager made a bad move. Sometimes guys just beat the odds. But the right move is the one with the best odds for success, even if success is not the outcome.
filihok
NS4L
You listed no examples
When to pull a pitcher has very little to do with then “dominating”
“Research employing various methods has found no evidence that a pitcher who cruised the first two times through the order was any better the third time through.”
blogs.fangraphs.com/in-appreciation-of-blake-snell…
Links within the article.
You’re other point is too vague to respond to.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Sure. It’s also possible the manager made a bad call and pulled their starter early. Hence my original statement. Managers do make bad decision. Like pulling a starter too early.
I did not say that’s a fireable offense or grab the pitc forks and tar and feathers but saying managers and front office aren’t responsible for wins and losses is a stupid take on filihoks part. Case in point, again.
Managers makes a bad call to pull the starter early. Manager kept going to the same pen guy who kept giving up runs and blowing leads expecting different results. Direct decisions by the manager that resulted in a loss. It does happen. Because managers are human. Humans are prone to bad decisions or “gut” feelings. They’re also prone to trusting numbers blindly and getting burned. Too much analytics is a bad thing.
They can also make good calls too. That is definitely important to note.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
My other point isn’t too vague to respond to. You’re just incapable of countering it so youre refusing to address it. Typically what people who lost the argument do.
It’s pretty straight forward of a point. Manager keeps using the same guy out the pen who keeps performing poorly hoping the player will rebound or right the ship. Aka Bob Melvin usage of Luis Garcia this year.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Just so I’m clear.
Your counter argument is
A guy who is dominating 1st and 2nd time thru the order isn’t any better than dominating a 3rd time through the order. So he’s reached the pinnacle of what a pitcher should be during an outing……and he can’t be better than that? Huh wonder why.
That’s like saying I’m filthy rich and if I earn another couple million dollars it’s hard to be something better than filthy rich.
filihok
NS4L
First,
“saying managers and front office aren’t responsible for wins and losses is a stupid take on filihoks part”
I ABSOLUTELY did not say that. Read again what I said.
Again, there is no evidence that pitchers who are cruising in part of a game will continue cruising. Surely, you read, and understood, the links that I linked to. :rolls eyes:
And, no, I don’t think that you, watching from your TV, or from a few hundred feet away in the stands, can use your eye test to know better than the managers when a pitcher is tiring. Nor do you have the biomedical information the team has regarding the players on any given day.
Also, the number of fans who think teams stick with players too long who keep track of how many players they themselves gave up on too soon is basically zero. It’s easy to think you’re always right when you never look for your mistakes.
Finally, the difference in expected win probability between choosing any two pitchers on a major league roster is minimal. Choosing one player over another doesn’t cost the team the game. That’s a vast oversimplification. The result no game in history turned on a single decision or play.
Jean Matrac
NoSubscriptions4Lyfe
Way to totally misrepresent what I wrote. I’ll reiterate since my point was not close to what you wrote. If a manager has info that a pitcher gets pounded the 3rd time through the lineup in 75% of his starts, it’s a bad decision to leave him in. If he leaves him in, hoping this time will be different because he looked so good up ’til then, it’s a bad decision. If the guy brought in has good numbers against the guys due up, it’s not a bad decision to bring him in, regardless of outcome.
When a manager makes these correct decisions, but the outcome is negative, it’s still the right decision. Doing otherwise is the wrong decision, even with a positive outcome. That’s because in the majority of occurrences the outcome should be positive.
The problem is fans will look at the minority of times when the outcome was negative and incorrectly label it a manager’s mistake. You can’t judge a manager’s decision by the outcome of any individual event.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Filihok
“Whether the coaching staff or front office was successful or not is largely independent of the teams record.”
You did. But nice try pretending you didn’t.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
Managers make decisions. Not AI. In case you were unaware.
Managers use available information to make decisions.
Whatever decision they make “numbers said so” doesn’t absolve the manager of taking responsibility for the outcome of the decision. Manager has final say on what to do. Not numbers and AI.
Sometimes Managers leave pitchers in too long sometimes Managers take them out too early. Sometimes they pull them at just the right time.
Sometimes Managers make brilliant calls sometimes it flounders.
End of the day Managers make the decisions and no amount of if ands or buts changes that. Because numbers said so doesn’t negate responsibility of the decision made.
Agreed though. People focus more on bad outcomes than good outcomes. But managers do make bad decisions. That fact is indisputable.
filihok
NSFK
No. I absolutely did not
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you misread and aren’t just lying
Go back and read it again
filihok
NS4L
“Managers make decisions. Not AI.
Managers use available information to make decisions.”
Absolutely
It seems like you’ve just track of the topic of the discussion and are arguing against some ghost in your head and not against me.
To VASTLY oversimplify, suppose that a team decides that for a specific game the pitcher not face certain batters a third time if he’s thrown over X pitches and it’s a high leverage situation.
The manager removes the pitcher in that situation
The team is not going to fire him for that regardless of whether the next pitcher fails or succeeds.
If the manager follows the organizational philosophy they are unlikely to get fired regardless of the results
Note: this is ignoring all the other responsibilities of the manager.
Jean Matrac
NoSubscriptions4Lyfe,
In the example you cited, removing a starter, may in fact have been a mistake. My point, which seems you don’t get, is that we as fans have no idea whether it was a mistake or not. If we had the mountain of data available that the manager has, then we might have some idea about it. But it just isn’t that simple cause and effect that you seem to think it is.
Jean Matrac
NoSubscriptions4Lyfe,
I’ll give you a real world example. A number of years ago in an important game (I don’t remember if it was a playoff game or an important late season game). It was Giants/Cards, and Bochy removed Sergio Romo with a RHH on deck after he had easily retired the previous 2 batters.
The next day some fans were saying Bochy made a mistake, and should have left Romo in. The thing was that that RHH was Yadi Molina, who absolutely crushed Romo in previous ABs. He was something like 5 for 8 with a HR and a couple of 2Bs. Bochy made the right decision based on the info he had, which the fans did not. You can be sure that example is typical for when fans think the manager made a mistake.
JackStrawb
You’re wildly overrating the talent of managers and the ability of teams to correctly employ biomedical info in on-field decisions.
Jean Matrac
No I’m not. A lot of people could do a passable job with the info that organizations have. No one said anything about biomedical info. The discussions was about how valid criticisms of managers are. Do fans that criticize managers understand that biomedical data better than the manager?
I’m talking about head-to-head data, specific pitch use, and corresponding ability info, pitch location data, and corresponding ability, etc. In the example above, would anyone with any degree of intelligence leave Romo in to face Molina? Managers don’t have to be geniuses, they just need to make the right decision most of the time.
Ban Jacob Nix. He knew Lindsey Hill was lying.
“Managers don’t have to be geniuses, they just need to make the right decision most of the time.”
Oh so managers do make decisions. Not numbers and ai. Cool. Glad we cleared that up.
Again. Cause numbers said so doesn’t absolve managers of taking responsibility for decisions they made.
All numbers and ai do is provide an educated guess at what the outcome will be. It’s the managers job to make the decision of when to pull guys or call which players in from the pen.
Pull a starter too early you then tax your pen making certain guys unavailable later on in the series. Or next series for instance. But numbers and ai don’t tell you things like that.
Jean Matrac
I never said managers don’t make decisions. Implying I did calls your reading comprehension into question.
Managers don’t make unilateral decisions though. Pulling a starter is after feedback from the pitching coach, and often from the catcher as well. Some catchers have no problem telling the manager a guy is losing it. Leaving a guy in, when the data says he should be removed is acting on hunch. Managing by hunch is the quickest way to failure and that is what the worst managers do.
But again, I’ll re-reiterate. Fans don’t know what was a mistake and what wasn’t. Most of the time, when the result of a decision is negative, many fans assume the decision was wrong, when in fact that decision made for the best chance of success. Chance being the key word. It’s baseball, and sometimes in baseball a manager can do everything right and have it turn out bad. Assuming the decision was wrong, based on the outcome is completely wrong-headed.
youngliam
The front office failed in that regard so they can’t expect excellence from what they gave Kapler to work with. Expecting that would be ignorant.
filihok
yl
Wrong.
Even if a F/O gives a manager a terrible group of players, they can absolutely expect the manager to execute the game plans, manage the player personalities, impart the correct information to the players, etc
The ignorance is yours
solaris602
Agreed. Kapler got more out of this bunch over 3 years than anyone else could have. This wasn’t a Matt Williams situation where he won MOY and then immediately turned into a pumpkin. Kapler squeezed every possible win out of what he had to work with.
filihok
Solaris
“Agreed. Kapler got more out of this bunch over 3 years than anyone else could have.”
I certainly didn’t say that
mab51357
I think Kapler’s constant platooning and constant jacking with the pitching (starters mainly) staff was going to make it even tougher to draw free agents here and player’s with options on the roster right now probably don’t want to stay because of getting jacked around as far as playing time. I think this move being done now is to send a message that we’re going to put a different regime in place before all the work this team needs to do over the winter. Kapler also did some good things including having to deal with roster problems caused by injuries and Farhan. I also think he communicated with his players really well. Seemed to really care about them. I don’t think many of the players were happy not having more defined roles though.Too much analytics IMHO.
filihok
Mab
1) the platooning and pitching management almost certainly came from the F/O. So, it’s pretty unlikely that’s what got him fired.
franklinstubbsghost
Not a Giants fan, but IMO Kapler tended to “over-managed”. I believe that he mixed and matched this team right out of the playoffs..
hopper15
Wilmer Flores was their best hitter. At the end of the day that’s not taking you far.
JackStrawb
That’s insane. The Giants Pyth record is 75-85. Their actual record is 78-82. So you’re claiming Kapler is the problem even though his team was 3 wins better than RS/RA indicates? What, his managerial decisions cost the team 10 games vs their Pyth record and kept them out of the postseason even though they outperformed that record?
johnrealtime
Why would an executive ever step down? You don’t reach those heights to just quit. You try to do better tomorrow
Woods Rider
To be fair, Kapler is terrible as a manager. His time in Phialdelphia was marred with poor managerial decisions, interactions with fans/press, and he couldn’t stand taking any forms of objections or critiicism to his line of thinking.
I found that evident this past offseason when Judge did not sign and they could not land any other majhor FA’s.
Honestly, Giants ownership needs to do an overhaul. SImilar to what Middleton did in Philadelphia.
I honestly can’t stand Kapler, but I wish him no ill will whatsoever and I hope he ends up in a situation similar to Tito Francona where he takes his lumps early and is revered later on.
stymeedone
@woods
Judge not signing with SF had nothing to do with Kapler. FA signing has to do with the Green Stuff. If the NYY at least matched what any team offerred, it was apparent he was returning. I sincerely doubt players base their choice on the manager of the team, as managers get shorter contract lengths than players.
Hexbreaker
@stymeedone
The Giants offered Judge more than the Yankees.
Jean Matrac
Hexbreaker
No they didn’t. Giants and Yankees offers were identical. You’re probably thinking of the Padres offer which was more than SF’s or NY’s.
Woods Rider
I should rephrase my comment now that I re-read it. Sure, Kaplaer may not have as much of an impact on FA decisions to sign as other factors.
TO clarify (as my comment didn’t) was that in losing out on Judge is an organizational problem (look at Turner turning down SD). It shows organizational issues. If Judge really liked SF, the money was the same, and all, then there’s really only one thing left that is a deterrent.
That ties into what my comment said about doing an overhaul. THe GIants need to do an overhaul of the organization and get back to square one.
To me, as clearly just a fan watching casually, it appears as though they have a serious culture issue. There’s also no denying that Kapler, while not responsible for it, was indeed a part of it.
thethrill
Farhan has been quoted by Strippling that Farhan wants a consistant 9 position players and 5 starters. so it seems hes signing players expecting them to be starters and Kapler was the one changing the starters (Strippling, Manea, etc) into openers.
I don’t love all the moves Farhan has made but the on field issues and terrible clubhouse chemistry was Kaplers fault. The man never called a team meeting but Farhan and Wotus have, something is not right. Also when it comes to signing players, Farhan is limited to what Ownership says, we don’t know if they gave Farhan full range to spend whatever he wants or an amount where he has to sign lower lvl guys, because he needs the money to last for 5-10 guys instead of 2-3. If we knew he had the finances but didn’t sign the big names then yes fire Farhan as well. But I have a feeling the Correras and Judges were not apart of his budget and that ownership has full approval over those options. If so Farhan is limited in his job.
frugalfarhan
You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken s#!7 and Gabe was given a pile of overpaid chicken s#!7 and was asked to make salad out of it. Nobody is going to fire themselves but some people step down when they realize what a horrible job they are doing. Anyone who supports Farhan and his plan over the last 5 years has clearly never actually played the game. No players want to come here to play nerd baseball. No agents want to send their clients to play here unless it’s to rehabilitate their career and move on. No GM’s want to deal with spreadsheet boy which is why nothing will change with this roster in 2024 and Fraudhan will be fired after another boring year in 2024
WarrenSpahn
totally agree, Gigantes are boring. there is not a single player on the team that anyone would come to the ballpark to watch. some bad teams are interesting, but the Gigantes are mediocre and boring
JackStrawb
“Farhan has been quoted by Strippling that Farhan wants a consistant 9 position players and 5 starters.”
—-The actual words coming out of Zaidi’s mouth, of course, tell a different story. He has said explicitly that he’s never trying to find 5 starters, but rather a pitching staff capable of starting 162 games.
Deadguy
Out for blood out for blood out for blood!
Fire up the old Weber!
The poor got a rich guy to eat!
Wilmer the Thrillmer
I know with Giants fans I’m in the vast minority with this one but old guys rule (Dusty, Bochy). I’m rooting for Joe Maddon to become the next Giants manager.
DanUgglasRing
I’d love that honestly
User 2079935927
Joe will be interested as long as the GM doesn’t make calls to the Dugout during the game.
spooky
Maddon is a clown. He’s not even close to the class of the other two you mentioned. Can’t stand guys that love to hear themselves talk, that’s Maddon and Kapler
Deadguy
Guys that love to hear themselves talk? You must be disabled? Or an owner, and you do alot of talking to your employees? One or the other? Either you give it, or you take it? There is no in-between?
Gumby82
My vote is for Forever Giant Ron Wotus to get the job
tedtheodorelogan
Yep
mab51357
Lol. I agree with the old school managers but please NO Joe Maddon. We don’t need another guy who thinks he’s bigger than the game. His head is bigger than Bochy’s hat size. And I loved Dusty, Bochy and Felipe Alou.
nukeg
I LOVE Joe Maddon, but I’m afraid the modern game has passed him by. He thought he could combine old school managing with sabermetrics analysis and decision making; he couldn’t.
jjd002
Y’all can have Dusty back. He is a terrible manager. Makes decisions coaches like Bo Porter and Brad Mills made. They were at least inexperienced when they made them. There is a reason it took Dusty so long to win his first one as a manager.
jjd002
The manager is the one that ultimately makes the lineup out. Dana Brown called out Dusty’s lineups on the radio yesterday. The FO has some input and usually they hire their guy that thinks like them, but at the end of the day the one making the lineup is in the dugout, not a suite.
MikeSadek3333
Bout time….recent MLBTR article spelled out how players are made to feel like they cant hack full time at bats—tough to go 3, 4 , 5 days in a row against same side pitchers and not get an at bat—they jump right in and need to do well. or they are out of lineup soon
99socalfrc
Do you really think the manager gets to make that call? That is an organizational philosophy issue, not a manager issue.
filihok
99
Amazing how many people don’t understand this
Has no one worked in an organization before?
Samuel
99socalfrc;
Yes and no.
The Giants are a team that overthinks everything, and Kepler fit right in.
My 2 favorite teams to watch the past 2 years have been the Orioles and Phillies. Both have been tremendously successful. Neither of those teams have had set lineups that they use most days. The FO brings in (and up) players constantly, the coaches (both at the ML and MiL) work with them, and the managers (Hyde and Thompson) both put their players in advantageous situations every game.
Yes, the Giants are particularly bad in developing players in their MiL system, and utilizing those on their 26 man roster at any point.
I thought Kapler was a disaster with the Phillies – along with the kids that ran the failed rebuild. Farhan appears to be a superior analytic guy as Sig Mejdal is with the Orioles. But for a team to be successful the head of baseball ops (whatever his/her title) has to be cognizant of the human factor as well as the fundamental things a player needs to do on the field of play that statistics will never represent.
Kapler would be a nice guy in a FO at a middle level that could bring up issues in both analytic and team play discussions. Farhan was perfect in his position of being a #2 guy to Friedman with the Dodgers, being allowed to concentrate on the analytics.
ib6ub9
Why do these owners fire the managers? Its not there faults there not pitching and hitting.
juice04
by that logic there should be no difference between managers at the major league level. all can get the same out of each player, all make the exact same decisions in each portion of the game.
we all have managers that we hate and ones we like in our work world. each of the manages in a different way and gets different things out of their employees. same logic.
css 2
@ib6ub9 – This is possible the dumbest comment I have ever read on this website.
BlueSkies_LA
Because in today’s game, managers are little more than the team’s front office with numbers on their backs. Most fans are fooled into believing that firing the manager means the franchise is changing direction.
BlueSkies_LA
In a move that stunned the sports world, immediately after firing Kapler, Farhan Zaidi fired himself.
Randy 8
That’s odd. Good manager and will easily get another job. He led a below average team to superb record last year and this year the team played to the level of their talent.
MWeller77
Did you mean 2021 instead of last year? In 2022 they were .500.
smuzqwpdmx
If the 2021 team hadn’t been so bizarrely inexplicably good then the subsequent mediocrity would’ve been completely expected and neither Kapler nor Zaidi’s job would be in danger yet. Everyone expected it’d be a rebuild that would take a while, until 2021.
Randy 8
Yes, you’re right. Sorry, I did mean 2 years ago. I’m getting older and really have no concept of time anymore….
tedtheodorelogan
Yesssssss!!!!!
A's Fan
Why now with just 3 meaningless games left. Let him finish the season and then dismiss him
Zerbs63
Yea even if he deserved to be fired why with 3 games left? He is a douchebag, but how does firing him 3 games before end of season help your organization.
KirkRueter
He doesn’t deserve to face the Dodgers again, that’s why. Or be there for Crawford’s last game.
smuzqwpdmx
I expect the intent was to let him finish the season first, but then the GM accidentally let the media know it was coming by pretending to be non-committal after previously vocally committing to Kapler, and they decided it’d be worse to make him play it out knowing he’s being fired and getting asked about it by everyone.
Giant1962
You’re correct about Farhan’s comment the other day. Haven’t read it here (I think) but bet Kapler went to Farhan and asked for a truthful explanation and Farhan told him he didn’t know yet or was out at end of season.. Kapler wanted assurance and Farhan didn’t provide it. Bet Kapler might have quit..
CardsFan57
My thoughts exactly. It seems rather vindictive to me
JackStrawb
@A’s Fan It does seem…. vengeful, somehow.
ib6ub9
Zaidi should fire himself before the manager.
Ejemp2006
This gives Gabe a head start to look for a new job. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him land the Cleveland gig.
Samuel
Probably not.
Maybe the Blue Jays – but no one’s allowed to know more than
Mark Shapiro.
Tacoshells
Giants fans are rejoicing
EBJ
Stupid Giants fans, anyway
BlueSkies_LA
Especially because they know the next manager will also be hired by Farhan Zaidi.
They do know that, right?
CleaverGreene
They shouldn’t be rejoicing. This team, as it stands, is a loser and that has nothing to do with Kapler.
tbone0816
I wish the Cardinals would follow suit!!
Dotnet22
Impossible. Kapler doesn’t manage the Cardinals.
THEY LIVE!!!
Wish Mozeliak would slip on a banana peel and meet his maker.
mattwild1
YESSSSSSS
StudWinfield
Kapler is almost as overrated as Boone.
MWeller77
Kapler won over 100 games two years ago, without nearly as much talent as Boone usually has. I think Kapler is a much better manager than Boone
Camden453
Wow. Classless move three days before the season ends
Dorothy_Mantooth
They probably did so as a favor to Kapler. As another poster stated above, it allows him to be able to interview and discuss current openings with other teams sooner than managers who be let go after the season ends. I know there are only 3 games left but I’m sure they offered Kapler the opportunity to finish the season if he wanted to. He chose to leave now instead.
mab51357
I agree 100%. I feel pretty confident that Kapler had the opportunity to finish out the season. If he had stayed his firing would have leaked somehow and would have made it a pretty awkward last 3 games.
filihok
I expect the comments here to be well thought out and reasoned
/S
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
I expected them to be well-seasoned
THEY LIVE!!!
I expected the comments to be salty and somewhat sour…
differentbears
Tough and ruthless.
Or rough and toothless.
Slider_withcheese
You just can’t have a man managing a major league team with a hand tattoo. It’s send the wrong message. It’s a 3.7 billion dollar franchise, not an auto shop.
alwaysgo4two
I can see where he might rub some players the wrong way. Have never seen a smile cross his face.
KingOmar
What a shallow, classless, ignorant comment
User 781115931
I agree with slider. Kapler is way too zesty to take seriously
amk1920
Nope. This is a professional environment. Having a tattoo itself is fine but having one on the hand makes him look like a slob
mab51357
I must have missed the tattoo etiquette class. Why does having one on your hand make you look like a slob? Weird comment and I’m not a tattoo fan at all.
sorengo99
Tell us you’re old and culturally out of touch without telling us. Tattoos are commonplace now, it’s not 1976 anymore.
mab51357
Nice reply ace. I am well aware of the tattoo popularity in today’s world, I personally don’t like them but all I was asking was why a hand tattoo makes someone look like a slob. Legitimate question. Thanks for the ever assuming reply though.
amk1920
Kapler has done a somewhat decent job with the pieces he’s given. Not his fault Farhan refuses to get actual everyday players
99socalfrc
I agree, not sure WTF the team expected of him given the roster, I’m not a Giants fan but it seems he has exceeded expectations every year he was there.
Gumby82
It’s long past time for forever Giant Ron Wotus to become the manager
DanUgglasRing
He lost the locker room completely by the all star break it’s not super surprising. Farhan loves to get his dumpster FAs and injury discount guys and Kap tried to manage them via algorithm. It’s moneyball but stupider.
Giantssadfan
Yep, and Farhan needs to be gone by end of season too. Disease starts from the top down. Farhan is a complete loser clown and Moneyballer, and his formula to baseball is not working anymore. It’s a coverup for him to not get off his A** and do his job, then sit in front of a computer telling him what to do….
Al Hirschen
He is seriously a possibility to manage the Yankees. If the Yankees decide to get rid of Boone, this man is a very analytic driven individual. Very much of what Al Steinbrenner wants with Cashman.
rocky7
Al, dead wrong man……you can’t be reading anything lately regarding the Yankees and the blowup going on regarding their over indulgence on analytics by Cashman and the front office and how Steinbrenner is paying for an outside evaluation of his entire system…….there is no way that another highly driven analytics manager will be helming the Yankees anytime in the near future…..not saying that analytics don’t count, but so do your eyes…something Cash and his analytics have ignored since the 2017 spanking by the Astros in the ALCS……..
scottn59c
I guess Kapler will probably get hired again somewhere, but he’s a polarizing figure. He left Philly under a hail of bullets, so to speak. He stuck around SF a little longer, but he had a lot of detractors.
Honestly, he might make a better PR guy than manager. Perhaps his next job will not be a managerial one.
desertdawg
Could the same thing happen with Boone in New York, and maybe Counsell in Milwaukee if the Brewers go out in the Wild Card. I also heard that Dusty Baker may retire after this season for Houston. and also, Bud Black at Colorado. So, if all this happens you would have to think Kapler would have at least a interview with a vacancy.
Simm
Bomel prob gone from the padres as well.
99socalfrc
If the Brewers fire Counsell they deserve 100 years of cursed baseball. He basically works magic with what he is given year in and year out. It’s borderline Rays level overachieving.
Dogbone
@99socal
Agree, Counsell sure wouldn’t be unemployed very long. In fact I would hope he just moved 90 miles South – and hopefully end up at Clark and Addison. He would be perfect for taking over the Cubs, now that their rebuild is bearing fruit.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Mets are hoping Milwaukee fires Counsell. They will scoop him up in an instance should he be let go. With that said, it’s highly unlikely they would fire him even if they get swept in the first round. He has done an incredible job with his team given the low payroll he’s is forced to work with. If they expanded their payroll ceiling by another $30M+, they could have an above average offense to go with their excellent pitching and be true contenders.
Yankeehater79
Hes a free agent he could be gone no matter what…
YankeesBleacherCreature
Can’t fire someone who isn’t employed by you and not under contract.
mab51357
No way Counsell gets fired. If he’s not with the Brewers next year it will have been his choice, not the Brewers’
Simm
I’m not sure if maples is good or bad but he seems to have done a good job with the talent the giants have. 2021 alone should gotten him a longe leash. I didn’t think the team the fielded this year had a chance to be very good: the fact that they were in it into the last week was a surprise:
Giants on offense have a lot of moving parts and zero air craft carriers.
thickiedon
I’m sure he’ll get a front office job soon
okbud
Wonder if Kapler has a front office future somewhere, look what he did as Dodgers director of player development.
Yeti
Don’t worry. So long as he says “analytics” & other buzzwords enough, he will get another managing job. Even when his decisions in the dugout mystify everyone in the world including all actual analytics people
brewsingblue82
Sounds to me like Zaidi saying “he did the best with what we gave him, but in the end we needed a fall guy.”
DanUgglasRing
They also could’ve used a couple hitters and starting pitchers.
SFBay314
This might make be believe in a higher power. AMAZING. BEFORE THE SEASON ENDS TOO.
Edp007
Needed to know before the first , now he doesn’t have to renew the lease on that expensive bayfront condo
LLGiants64
Who will be acting manager? Please, not Kai Correa….
SFBay314
Andrew Bailey for sure
tangerinepony
They couldn’t wait 2 days on Sunday to fire him? Lol
ChuckyNJ
Cos that would bogart the 49ers, who are one of three unbeaten NFL sides left.
pirateking24
Kapler is heading to Milwaukee or NY.
showmebb
I don’t follow the Giants that much but it seems he did well considering what he was given. This team-thus the manager-doesn’t have even one great player but they’ve done well with the average and slightly above average players they do have. I thought they would get a star this off-season and let Gabe have another go. What am I missing?
Player to be named in the future 2
Woke himself out of a job
BlueSkies_LA
🙁
THEY LIVE!!!
Why the sad face BlueSkies??
Ya'll a bunch of salty crybabies
Because he’s woke himself.
BlueSkies_LA
🙁 The zombies are among us.
differentbears
Yeah, that’s it. That’s what happened.
Jacksson13
Could see that coming miles away.
Whatever “magic” the team had this season,
The team FOLDED down the stretch.
ChuckyNJ
That’s what going 8-17 in September will do for your ballclub. Giants have to sweep the Dodgers to avoid finishing under .500.
Jacksson13
They are incapable/unable to go toe to toe with the Dodgers.
ALSO, although I don’t have the stats,
Since they poached Bochy from the Padres,
the Giants have no luck when facing San Diego.
Jean Matrac
The Giants are 5-5 against the Dodgers this year.
Since 2007, when Bochy came to SF, the Giants are 125-110 vs. the Padres.
bobbers_mcgee
He just launched his onlyfans 31 minutes ago. Coincidence?
disadvantage
I mean, his IG is a thirst trap for middle ages women, so it wouldn’t be the worst move for him.
bobbers_mcgee
BEEF CAKE!
foppert1
Ha ha ha. Susan Slusser first up !
Redwolves3
Great news that Kapler has been fired. Hopefully the next axe to fall will be Zaidi’s first
LordD99
It’s almost never the manager.
Goin' to Sheetz
Zaidi should follow right behind.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Ironically, Gabe Kapler is not welcome back!
Dumpster Divin Theo
What?- Vinnie B.
hinerism
Maybe he’s having second thoughts about not standing for the national anthem.
CleaverGreene
Like you’re a patriot?
SODOMOJO
I think Gabe has a really bright future as a big league manager, but I also understand the move. Certainly can’t put all the blame on him but I think it could be a good time for a change. This team has been on a consistent nosedive since that ‘21 playoff loss. And I really thought that was a great team.
KirkRueter
He’s been fired twice now for late season collapses and losing the locker room. I’d be surprised if he ever manages again.
mab51357
I think you might be right. FO job is more likely. I also don’t see him taking a bench coach position if some team made that offer.
milla
Sure hope you are right Lefty.
CleaverGreene
They haven’t had a great team since Bonds retired. Even in all their WS years they were flawed. They were lucky to be over .500 this year, all year.
Oldguy58
Any chance SF ask the Cubs if they can have Ross? Please please please anyone want to trade managers?
Motown is My Town
Kapler won’t be out of work long. He’ll either replace Francona in Cleveland or boy wonder Harris will hire him to be Hinch’s bench coach in Detroit
angt222
If Kapler is out in SF, then idk if Buck makes it back in NY for Mets.
Dennis Boyd
Go woke, go broke
BlueSkies_LA
🙁
filihok
DB
Muted
Motown is My Town
D Boyd….you must be proud of your 2nd grade education with apologies to every other second grader out there
Dennis Boyd
Jay, actually, both my degrees are from top 10 institutions, but I only need to humble brag when someone makes a dumb comment on the internet like you have done. And boy I hope you are the common causer in Wisconsin who graduated from the #133 ranked Miami of Ohio. Let’s not compare our CVS, ok?
But I Do
Wow, what a pretentious comment
kingsfan1968
I’m taking a knee for Gabe!
THEY LIVE!!!
LOL!!!
Inside Out
Ridiculous how always fire the manager when he is given a very poor group of players and they do about as good as possible with no pitching. Zaidi should have been canned
l9ydodger
Yep, in most cases the P.O.B.O. or GM should be fired. If the manager looses the players & club house, that’s on him & he has to go.
william-2
I am surprised they fired him. This team has so little talent. I actually thought he was doing well for what he was given.
Kenneth Powers
Kapler always thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. The problem is–he’s an idiot. Dunning Kruger in evidence.
filihok
KP
This will be fun
How do you know want Kepler’s intelligence?
Kenneth Powers
Another unintelligible post from filihok/baseballislife/websoulsurfer.
filihok
KP
Another, I’m guessing, terrible take by Kenneth Powers
Muted
braves95 2
Was last seen bench pressing Mitch Haniger while yelling you will not be in the lineup tonight
Super2
Oh what a glorious day! Happy Friday everyone!!
The Big Yo
Must be awful having a team that is on the cusp of greatness every year. Yours sincerely, Oakland
mad1
Probably another team that thinks they can get Counsell, LOL. He’s not leaving brewtown.
giantwarrioras49ersraiders
Matt Williams!!!!
skullbreathe
Good. He was an offensive Cluster F.’ He resisted young players until ownership overruled him. Hello Tyler Fitzgerald!!!. He refused to the bring up LHP Miller who may be the best LHP reliever in 20 years due to as Gabe said “we need position players.” Kapler is f…ing moron who worries how his buddy looks in the SF press.
filihok
sb
Why do you think the manager makes the decision about who gets called up?
harryfrazeesucks
Aubrey Huff is stoked.
Breck68
I was wondering who will be the next manager for SF Giants? Who should they hire?
THEY LIVE!!!
Jeff Kent is who…
ohyeadam
Posey, if he’s willing, would be the best choice imo. How they played during his final year in ‘21 can’t be a mistake. A clubhouse will run through a brick wall for him
JayRyder
Surprising, Considering Kap is Farhan’s Guy.
I myself was never huge on Kapler. But that was because of the other things he would do. Hand tattoos, huge watch, his interviews the way he would put his arm over the back of the couch. These are small personality things I didn’t necessarily connect with.
As for his coaching. I don’t know if it was him or Farhan. But the lineups and openers was getting old. Tons of switches and guys coming in and out. That of course is also on the Org with bringing guys up, cutting them, etc. And Injuries.
I think overall the article says it best. Kap had success, But as with Philly and here, the Sept runs were falling short. Also hearing that Joc Pederson is having shots of whiskey with guys in the clubhouse and being completely out of shape rubbed me the wrong way too.
I think Kap likes being The Man. Walking Strong as can be. Not giving an inch. He, to me, was a bit phoney in always saying the right things. But he did protect his guys. And Farhan I think fired him because He Himself has one more season to get to the playoffs or He Is Fired.
Gmen777
Personally think Zaidi is far more to blame than Kapler but you can’t go from 13 games over .500 with the first WC to fourth place and out of the playoffs in two months and expect to keep your job.
I.M. Insane
Good. Give Captain Woke the boot. Now dump that dirtbag, Zaidi
Paleobros
Joe Maddon is available
bubba3b
imho, bob melvin is the go-to guy to helm:
1. local born and bred (palo alto).
2. giants catcher during their “humm baby!” period.
3. worked with zaidi in oakland.
4. worked magic in oakland for over a decade when, year-after-year, beane would trade off their best players for “hopeful major league talent”.
5. seven of his ten years in oakland they played over .500 baseball. six of those seven were playoff years.
a bit of old-school mixed with analytics. works for me! 🙂
mab51357
Thumbs up on Melvin. What about Brenly?
Jean Matrac
This season the Padres are 7-23 in one-run games. Not sure if that’s the fault of the manager, but it would give me pause if I was looking to hire a one.
DanUgglasRing
Also when the A’s were in the AL wildcard against the Royals he may have single handedly managed the worst game I have ever seen.
♪
Kapler is the scapegoat again, just like in Philadelphia. He had very little to work with this year.
THEY LIVE!!!
Scapegoat me once shame on you! Scapegoat me twice and you might be a goat…
vivalosdoyers
Philly seems much better off without him.
Hexbreaker
Way too much platooning.
hiflew
I really hope that Kapler doesn’t become the next Rockies manager. He is a former Rockies player and has always seemed to have a friendly relationship with the team. I just don’t like his style of managing at all.. The constant platoons just tells players that you don’t fully believe in them. I’d much rather find a Braves-style manager where you get 6-7 regulars and play them EVERY DAY.
kreckert
Kapler’s not a terrible manager, but he’s never going to be a good manager until he drops the motivational speaker persona and stops looking at the game philosophically. You tailor the game to the players, not the players to the game. Anybody who doesn’t see that won’t succeed long term.
JayRyder
Good Take.
sugoi51
Probably not much of a chance in either, but would love to see either Wotus or Ron Washington get a shot to manage. Or maybe even Melvin, provided itchy trigger fingered Preller would unsurprisingly fire him from the Padres.
CrikesAlready
Good riddance. SJW tendencies made him a perfect fit for SF… Now, maybe the Padres
If he could tolerate AJ Preller’s hand up his ass, he’d be a match made in heaven with Padres owner Peter Seidler, who seems to very concerned about homelessness while not as concerned about his team’s performance.
It has been revealed today that Peter Seidler lives in Texas. He is avoiding California income tax!
Bob Melvin would be smart to get out of San Diego.
filihok
RE: CA
Muted
sergefunction
Filihok:
Most of us are here for the clever musings, not for your endless list of mutings.
Muted.
Wren
but what’s the point of hearing others pov when you’re certain you’re right? look how successful all the current policies have been for civilization.
on a positive note kapler will have plenty of time to turn his bung hole to the sun now. and no worries about when to appear in the dugout.
foppert1
Enjoyed watching Kapler do his work. He is an interesting man, and I appreciated watching the different style of playbook. Best of luck to him.
agnes gooch
Hi foppert, I agree, he is a quirky guy into esoteric stuff and I think greatly misunderstood. It’s too bad things went south in the second half of this season.
Better days ahead I hope
skarbekb
How about the general manager give him better players. Not saying that I like Gabe but that roster is terrible at best.
disadvantage
Shohei Ohtani – Pitcher/Hitter/Manager for your 2024 SF Giants.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
If he goes to SF He’s gonna have like 20 Splash Homeruns. He might do that if he goes to LA.
dave frost nhlpa
Couldn’t wait til Monday,eh?
acoss13
I don’t know about his clubhouse leadership that’s an intangible part of the game that we can’t see, but the platoons and split stats, that’s a roster construction issue, that’s what Farhan gave Kapler, and he squeezed quite a bit from what he had to work with.
njbirdsfan
Firing the manager when you built the team is the equivalent of farting in an elevator and blaming it on someone else.
scottn59c
I usually just blame it on the dog.
filihok
njbf
Ignorant comment
It assumes that the only reason a manager can be fired is because of the performance of the team. That’s just not at all true
Datashark
Giants need some STAR power – they cannot keep dumpster diving finding few gems here and there for one season auditions to other teams.
Silas
Great now he’s free to pursue his social justice crusade or whatever it is.
User 2079935927
Man Gabe was good on Welcome Back Kotter. Maybe his next managing gig he will make Epstein his 3rd base Coach. Horshack his Pitching Coach. Freddie Boom Boom Washington Hitting Coach. And Vinnie Barbarino as Clubhouse fluffer. If they can get him away from Bath house long enuff.
petefrompp
Yeah something changed in the relationship between Farhan and Gabe. Maybe Farhan asked Gabe about the “ culture” and Gabe reacted poorly.
Or Farhan is using Gabe as a scapegoat – trying to protect his job. We all know Gabe doesn’t pick the lineup or make any changes unless it’s on the chart provided by Farhan and his office.
Unless Gabe did something completely off the rails – the ram reason the Giants had a mediocre year is because they are a mediocre team. I mean Fangraphs nailed the win total before the season started. The real answer is they don’t have enough talent on the team to compete with the Dodgers or any of the other upper level teams in the NL.
My biggest complaint is the way they play the rookies – I MEMS they are trying to turn Magis into a platoon player at 21 – let the kid play against lefties and let him develop – why ruin a potential full time player to fit your goofy platoon every position. It’s bad development and I’m sure Gabe doesn’t make this decision.
Austin Slater mailed it in the pre game – play bad baseball and people loose their jobs.
The players need to look in the mirror – they are responsible for the results on the field.
Datashark
Now all the old vets contracts are out of the way when FZ first came in….lets see what he can do with it – he is on his 6th year that 107 can only hold for so long. right now they are more like 70s giants than 2010 giants
baseballencyclopedia
Thank goodness. Although, can’t blame him completely when the Giants didn’t do anything at the deadline.
THEY LIVE!!!
Jeff Kent as manager!
LFGMets (Metsin7) #InEpplerIsGone!!!!
I genuinly believe that Kappler is a good and potentially a great manager. With that being said, he obviously has problems that need to be adressed. His over reliance on platoons made it so a lot of his guys couldn’t get into rythms at the plate. Another thing is it seems like he cares more about showing off his tats and muscles then actually caring about the integrity of the game. After his amazing year 1 in SF, he became completly full of himself. Started to wear shades to every game like he was some sort of crafty macho man, always had his sleeves rolled up, all he was missing was a toothpick in his mouth. If he can get humbled I think he could have a long career as a manager
TJT88
Jeeze they didn’t even let him finish the season out. That’s disrespectful in my eyes.
Sadface
But why fire him now? Only 3 games left. It wouldn’t make a difference if he finished the year. If you were going to make this move, a month before the end of the season makes much more sense. Give another guy a chance to audition for the job.
scottn59c
A month ago, the Giants were competing. Then, when they needed to hoof it the most, the team quiet quit due to the lax clubhouse and poor leadership.
The Giants’ only real current star under a long term contract (Webb) spoke to the media about this, and it was a pretty major embarrassment to the club.
I agree that it’s not a nice gesture to Kapler, but there may have been more going on there than we know.
StreakingBlue
I agree. Why now with just three games left seems kinda like there might be more behind the scene. Seems like Gabe was the scapegoat. Don’t like the Giants, but seems like wholesale change is needed with new leadership.
THEY LIVE!!!
Not even Gabe Kapler’s white privilege could save him from getting fired…
/S
ChuckyNJ
Kai Correa is the Giants’ interim skipper per ESPN.
THEY LIVE!!!
Just saw the interim manager on TV. Kai Correa looks like an 18 yr old Emperor Hirohito.
highflyballintorightfield
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
— Dodgers fans everywhere
wallabeechamp
Bob Melvin you are cleared for landing…
Jean Matrac
Most fans can’t accurately critique a manager. Some will see a guy make a move that backfires, and conclude it was a mistake. That’s wrong. A good manager goes with the odds. Sometimes when the odds are good for success, the outcome is a failure, even though the manager did the right thing.
The thing for me with Kapler is the Giants became a different team halfway through the season. Early on when they were winning games they grinded out ABs making the pitcher work, and getting into the opposing team’s bullpen. Then they became a team swinging at a lot of first pitches. For the last couple months a lot of players looked like they just wanted to get the game, and this season, over quickly.
I have nothing against swinging at the first pitch. Moises Alou did. it a lot, but he had a controlled aggressive approach. When he swung at the first pitch there a degree of success. But it seemed like I saw a ton of dribblers back to the pitcher, or pop-ups on first swings.
The first half of the season was fun, but the last 2 months have been frustrating and annoying. Whether that is Kapler’s fault I don’t know, but it seemed like he lost the clubhouse. If he did or not, no one but Kapler, his coaches, and the team know for sure. Kapler seemed like he was sympatico with Zaidi, so something must have gone disastrously wrong for Zaidi to fire him.
scottn59c
Get outta town!
Nap Lajoie
Sometimes good decisions still can lead to bad results.
Hard for baseball fans to swallow. And vice versa.
Giants in a rebuild—sucks…
Good luck Kap
baseballteam
It’s San Francisco so they’ll want a Trans manager. Not Transition. Trans.
tedtheodorelogan
Somebody check on Agnes.
foppert1
Doing fine. Won’t quit.
agnes gooch
Stay strong foppert!
agnes gooch
I’m ok ted lol! This really sucks. It’s a sad day in Giants history. But they looked like zombies lately. We all don’t know the full story and we may never but the Pusoy story did not look good. Turned into a circus, the media was circling like sharks, and the bleeding had to stop. The future is bright, lots of good looking kids to be excited about. There will be some more bumps but hopefully the ship can turn around after a couple of tricky maneuvers and the Giants will be back on the path to glory. It’s never easy!
foppert1
Hey Agnes. It’s been a tough month or so !
Super curious about Joc. Senior guy trying to lighten the mood or fed up attitude ? Will probably get a good indication this free agency.
agnes gooch
Hi foppert, I’m wondering the same thing about Joc. His hitting this year hasn’t been as good as last year along with the stories about his weight gain and the Pusoy playing, but the fact that he was in the lineup and not on the bench last night says a lot. He may have just been trying to make the most in a bad situation after the AS break or he may have been the ringleader of the mess, I don’t know. But the vets quit in the second half and the kids kept trying but couldn’t do it.
The comments from Slates and Yaz about Kapler having a hands off style are revealing, I mean pros like Flores and smart guys like Slater don’t need to be babysat but some guys do need more direction. Thairo tried speaking to the clubhouse and later Wotus but Kapler wasn’t into calling meetings. Perhaps too idealistic, not everyone is self accountable.
foppert1
Ok. There’s new stuff there for me. Thank you. Hands off Kap. That surprises me. Completely opposite to the micro manager reputation. Over compensating perhaps. Wouldn’t be the first time an intense self improvent guy went too far the other way.
Anyhow, bring on the new guy !
seaver41
Calls him a friend as he pulls the knife out of his back……would like a little more transparency here as in ……he needed to go, period’
Niekro floater
Gives em plenty of time to work on his testicle tan. Dodgers will bring em back w/FO gig.
Rsox
Fill the clown car with the 17 coaches and start from scratch.
Should the Padres fire Bob Melvin he might be a good choice here. Maybe trade for Bud Black?
But I Do
I guarantee you the people who are reveling in his firing because he’s too woke were the same people saying Anthony Bass shouldn’t have gotten run out of Toronto.
GarryHarris
Gabe Kapler did very good with a lousy team. Imagine what he could do with a team just a little better. Talk about misplaced blame!
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Yep, Gabe was stuck playing the cards he was dealt. I mean, really. Guy is MOY in 2021 and out of a job two years later because he couldn’t keep a collection of other teams’ rejects in the pennant and playoff race! Talk about a tough crowd.
True, Gabe is a different cat from managers like Tommy Lasorda, Earl Weaver, Joe Torre et al. When he was in Philly, our local press and radio talking heads gave him a pretty rough time. And a few players took shots at him, too.
Maybe with the right team of players he can succeed again. I wish him well.
GarryHarris
IMO the best managers can manage a bullpen very well. The 21 Giants had perhaps the greatest pen all time. It is the biggest reason the Giants won 107. The team had 4 position players under 32 and had two full time players. The rest of the team platooned.
Imagine the Cards under Kapler…
msqboxer
Interesting timing..curious if they will go old school or new school manager.
foppert1
The evidence suggests that Kapler relates well to an older player, but no so well to the wide eyed youngster. Obviously wide eyed youngsters are the immediate future. So here we are.
bumpy93
can you describe how far is a die-hard Philadelphia Phillies fan I’m glad to see him fail in San Francisco also I just never liked him the day we hired him
foppert1
I’ll give it a try. You need to work on personal development. Kapler style. Specifically, not wishing bad things on people who are different to you.
1958giants
Glad to see a reset, his act was getting old. Between his kneeling for the national anthem, and his obvious narcissistic view (dude always had skin tight shirts to show off his arms, bet he wears tank tops in the winter) he was never a favorite of mine. Now the Giants have more issues than him, we need all-star caliber position players that don’t platoon.
Silas
AGREED, THE GUY WAS A KNEELING TOOL
User 624265706
I kinda hope that David Ross, the Cubs manager, is next. The Cubs all but had the wild card spot wrapped up but this terrible month of September have cost them. He was never a particularly good manager and the Cubbies need someone with more experience.
WarrenSpahn
The 2023 Giants committed the biggest sin of all: they are boring af….
THEY LIVE!!!
Good riddance to Kapler.
DarrenDreifortsContract
Everyone knew the Giants were fools gold from a couple of seasons ago and weren’t going to repeat their success.