The Phillies have returned Rule 5 draft pick Noah Song to the Red Sox, reports WEEI’s Rob Bradford. Philadelphia designated Song for assignment earlier in the week. The teams both announced the move not long after Bradford’s initial report. Boston will not need to add Song to its 40-man roster.
A fourth-round pick back in 2019, Song pitched 17 innings with the Red Sox’ low-A affiliate in his debut effort before entering the Navy to fulfill his requirements as a graduate of the Naval Academy. Song was transferred to the selected naval reserves this year, allowing him to return to baseball — a development that transpired after Philadelphia had selected him in the Rule 5 Draft.
How the 26-year-old Song would get through the season was a fair question, given his lengthy layoff from pitching and his extremely minimal professional experience. The Phillies were high enough on the right-hander to take a chance on carrying him on the big league roster all year — as is required of Rule 5 picks — but a back strain ultimately wound up sidelining the righty for much of the season.
That injury gave the Phillies a month to pitch in the minors on a rehab assignment, but the results weren’t great. In 11 innings between Class-A, Double-A and Triple-A, Song allowed nine runs on 12 hits and 11 walks. He punched out 16 hitters, but there was clearly some understandable rust with regard to his command.
He’ll now head back to the Red Sox organization and pitch in their system with an eye toward an eventual big league debut as a member of the Red Sox. Song was ranked the No. 65 prospect in his draft class by Baseball America, only slipping to the fourth round due to questions surrounding his military status. Now that he’s pitching again, he’ll give the Sox another talented arm who they’ll hope can move quickly through the system.
Happy now?
Yes.
Sweet! We can thank DD for setting him back another 6+ months though with his “back stiffness” to open the season. Just a tactic to try and build him up while on the 60-day IL and then hide him on the MLB roster at the end of the year. Regardless, I’m happy he’s back where he belongs. I wonder where Boston will start him? A+ ball or AA in Portland?
I’d imagine Greenville would be a nice place to get his feet wet
I think he goes straight into development in Florida where the club will put together a throwing program as if he were recovering from injury (he is, in effect) and give him an exercise program as well as look at his pitching mechanics, see what needs to be tweaked, and work on pitch shapes. No pitching for any level of the minors this year! If he progresses through the off-season, he should have a brief start in Salem just to feel the mound again, then up to Greenville for as much of 2023 as needed for mastery, ending in Portland if all goes well.
I think we might see Song pitch in the minors this year or the Arizona Fall League. They need to decide if they will add him to the 40 man roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft in December.
Sox might not have to protect Song this year. Song just washed out as a R5 draftee. 28 teams just passed on claiming him. Nothing is going to happen between now and setting the 40-man roster in November if they send him to the development center, where he can’t even be scouted. No one’s going to pluck him again under those circumstances.
You may be right. Do you think Dombrowski would pick him again? I think he might.
Funny, that did cross my mind. It would also be regarded far and wide as a genuinely malicious act. I wonder if the league would be moved to find some reason to stop it.
Well, MLB allowed it once and Song should be in better shape the second time around. I hope Song looks good and the Red Sox add him to the 40 man roster.
Horace – You’re forgetting one thing, a team may not have had the roster space to pluck him but could make space prior to the R5 draft so they can go pluck him then.
“Song pitch in the minors this year or the Arizona Fall League”
My money says Song is shut down for year. When a pitcher loses 6mph off his fastball there is almost always an underlying issue. Maybe Arizona Fall but I doubt minors.
“a team may not have had the roster space to pluck him but could make space prior to the R5 draft so they can go pluck him then.”
Thats completely wrong. If a team doesnt have roster space in August, they almost certainly wont have it in November through March. Only way a team would be in that situation is if they have a bunch of major league players with expiring contracts. Which the Phillies dont.
Reasons 40-man roster spots are needed at the end of season:
1) To protect their own minor league players from the Rule V, teams will have to add a handful of first-time eligible players to the 40-man.
2) All players on the 60-day disabled list that are being kept, have to be added back on to the 40-man.
3) Any new acquistions (Free Agents, Claimed Players) have to be added to 40-man.
Basically, claiming a player through Rule V takes away a roster spot for the entire off-season. It limits what a team can do, just as it hurt Philadelphia’s flexibility all off-season.
You may be onto something. Shutting down Song for the rest of the year may be the best thing for him and it may be the best way to assure he doesn’t get picked in the Rule 5 draft. This is because no one wanted him now and there would be no new performance data about him to change that opinion.
Now to get the dodgers to do the same with my pal Brasier….
What’s up with that? change of scenery really worked for him. I do feel the Sox gave him a long leash though.
Lucky – It’s a fact the Red Sox have a very poor track record with pitchers. You want a Red Sox pitcher to improve? Let him go to another team.
Just heard this the other day on Bradfo show… apparently when he got to LAD they literally told him “you should throw a cutter (I think but point is new pitch) and taught it to him… he worked on it, came up and started throwing it with outstanding results. I know that’s a 1 in a 1000 chance but too bad the Sox dev group didn’t do it!!
and I hated Braiser on the roster… but obviously it would have been different if he was pitching like he is in LA!!
The difference is likely all BABIP-related. His BABIP was .344 and with LA, it is .157. He wasn’t as bad as his ERA with Boston, and isn’t as good as his ERA with LA.
Can we have an update on rule 5 draftees? I’m guessing Blake Sabol of the Giants has been about the most successful.
Off the top of my head, Sabol, Noda, and Kelly (reliever for the Rays) are the most successful, although I could be missing one.
Mason Englert with the Tigers
Englert has potential, but he hasn’t been particularly successful this season. Still worth keeping, though.
My bad…I thought it was just everyone who survived the Rule V. Sabol was a great find for SF.
Kelly is good, but he was returned then traded. Cleveland nabbed him from the rule 5, but returned him. Then rockies sent him to tampa.
Jose Hernandez with the pirates has stuck around for a while.
Song song blue
Can we have an update on rule 5 draftees? Is Blake Sabol the most successful at this point?
Here it is, Bloom’s prized deadline aquisition! No but seriously, happy to have this guy back.
He’s actually a perfect candidate for Bloom. If he can make it to the majors by age 28, the Sox will have him on the cheap for 4 years, after which he’ll be at an age where Bloom or his successor won’t want to sign him to a long, free agent contract unless he turns out to be a stud.
And you got him for a song.
Best of luck to you!
Take my Song,please!
Bloom lost Thad Ward, who doesn’t look like a big leaguer. Looks like he was correct in his evaluations.
The Sox still should have kept Ward over Brasier or Ort. Ward was coming back from TJS so he needed another year in the minors to get his velocity and control back. Of course he got hit hard in the majors; that’s not the place for a minor leaguer to rehab after a major surgery. Washington must see some promise in Ward to keep him all season though.
The Nats seem to be stashing him on the IL until rosters expand. They’re also the 3rd worst team in baseball. They’re not running out pitchers anywhere near the caliber Boston is. That’s a really horrible middle reliever crew.
I’m sure Bloom was happy to have the spot that he would’ve given Ward become a revolving door to DFA and add guys.
“The Sox still should have kept Ward over Brasier or Ort'”
Judgement call. Ward wouldve sucked up a 40-man roster spot. He is a good pitcher but also has control issues. Brasier and Ort were kept to help out the current team. Ward so far has been a net negative to Washington. When he starts giving positive results, maybe, you can say that.
Brasier should definitely have been kept over Ward. As soon as he got out of Boston, his numbers have been great. There’s no way a GM is suppose to know which players are capable of handling the rabid Boston fans, and which cant.
Ward was coming back from TJS so he needed another year in the minors to get his velocity and control back.
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And that is probably exactly why he got exposed and Brasier and Ort did not. The RS need guys to plug and play for a week at a time. There aren’t so many slots on the 40-man roster that you can afford to use a slot for a guy that won’t help you for at least a year.
Between guys on the 15-day IL, and some legit older prospects like Mata, Rafael, Dalbec, etc., we needed more flexibility.
IRT Washington, I think it was the expectations of finishing last that guided their decision.
Gas up the duck boats!
Sox still owe the Phils a dance
No big deal for the Phillies,
After all,
They got him
For a…………………………………………….
SONG !!
isn’t garret Whitlock a rule 5 pickup?
Yes
Song got 4 months of MLB minimum salary out of it which is good for him. I hope they change the Rule 5 draft rules to prevent this from happening again. The Rule 5 draft is designed to save players from situations where they are not progressing toward MLB. In the case of Song, the Red Sox had nothing to do with Song not progressing toward MLB. He was not with them. He was in the Navy.
And this was great for him. He got 4 months of MLB pay that he wouldn’t have gotten with the Red Sox. No need to change the rules for this.
I disagree. There was no problem with the Red Sox that the Rule 5 draft needed to fix in Song’s case.
The Phillies were wiling to carry him on the active roster. The Sox didn’t even want to add him to the 40. How much more blatant of an example of not progressing to towards the MLB can you get? The Rule 5 worked exactly as intended.
“The Rule 5 worked exactly as intended.”
Slow your role. Song’s Fastball dropped from 96 to 90 over the last 3 weeks. If his arm is injured, this would be the exact example how young kids can get damaged, and get next to nothing for it.
Lets wait a week or two to find out if he’s healthy.
Slow your roll. Roll.
A project. Might be worth it. I vote try.
StudWinfield: Why would the Red Sox add Song to the 40 man roster? At the time of the Rule 5 draft, there was no info about whether or not Song would be allowed by the Navy to play baseball. So, it made no sense for the Red Sox to add a guy to the 40 man roster who hadn’t pitched in over 3 years and might not pitch for even more years. No sense at all. They could have put Song on the 40 man roster and then moved him to the Military List (which is what the Phillies did), but I think that makes no sense either because he accrues service time on the Military List. He could have spent 3 more years in the service (while on the Military List) and then be in A ball while eligible for arbitration. That would be a joke. So, I fail to see what the Red Sox did wrong that the Rule 5 draft corrected. The Phillies got lucky Song came out of the Navy so soon, but the whole thing did cost them about $500,000.
Sox did nothing wrong. Phils gambled with the same risk. Song’s circumstances have no bearing on the functionality of the Rule 5 draft. The willingness to give a player a MLB opportunity is the point of the Rule 5 draft.
I also think it makes no sense to give a player who hasn’t pitched in over 3 years only 3 months to get ready for a MLB season. That’s what happened. It’s no surprise Song got hurt.
“Phils gambled with the same risk”
Now the stuff is getting deep. What “Risk” did Phillies take? They grabbed a kid 3.5 years removed from pro ball, possibly blew his arm out and gave him back. I would say thats the exact opposite of taking a risk.
A risk would be if they pushed a player on his own team that he had 100% ownership of, not one borrowed from the team that fired him.
The rules were put in place to protect minor league pitchers from being stuck in minor league purgatory on teams with better players at ML level. Song wasn’t in this boat. With Song’s situation, its obvious he needed more time on the farm.
Long toss, then pitching off flat ground, then pitching at Florida Complex. That wouldve taken months. Then you start pitching in competitve games at the lowest level.
A simple clause, that if an eligible player hasnt pitched for more than a year, he is excluded from Rule V Draft, would solve this problem. It would cover this unique situation and, also, players removing from major surgery.
If Song is hurt, I hope lawsuits fly. This was wrong that he would be eligible, then forced to ramp up so fast.
The risk is they gave him a 40 spot that could have gone to someone else. Same risk for the Sox. It’s nothing but complete speculation that his injury has anything to do with his layoff. It is also his back not his arm that was/is the problem.
They gave it a shot, he wasn’t ready, they gave him back. Textbook Rule 5.
Actually, the Phillies gambled with someone else’s property. If you mess him up, just return him. Kind of like abusing a rental car before you return it.
“The risk is they gave him a 40 spot that could have gone to someone else.”
So now we’re calling pure stupidity, a risk. 19 other teams didn’t want to add him to their roster before Philly, and probably the rest would have declined as well. It was a bad move that had almost no chance of success. With damage to player a real possibility.
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“It’s nothing but complete speculation that his injury has anything to do with his layoff”
And my response is ‘Its nothing but complete speculation that his injury has NOTHING to do with his layoff’.
A meaningless response gets a meaningless response.
Because straining your back is such an abnormal thing? There was no rush to bring him to the active roster. If he was still hurt he could’ve have stayed on the injured list and carried his Rule 5 status to next season. The Sox could have chosen not to take him back for $50k, but they were interested enough to do so.
He was PHI property once they selected him. If he is so damaged why the the Sox pay $50k to take him back?
StudWinfield: The only way what you are saying is true about the Rule 5 draft being fine for Song is if you actually think it is possible for a guy to not pitch for over three years and then shake off all the rust and get in shape in 3 months for a MLB season. Getting in shape includes your arm, back and legs. They are all needed for pitching. Noah Song is data point number one showing it is not possible. How many more players will get hurt before they change this? Maybe a player will do it some day, but most will get injured like Song.
Song does not become property of the Phillies until he stays on their 26 man roster for 90 days. Why not take him back and see if there is anything to salvage?
You think he’s been serving his military duty on a couch watching TV and eating chips? How is his injury any different from veteran players who have been hurt?
He was returned because he wasn’t ready and/or good enough to contribute on a MLB roster.
“There was no rush to bring him to the active roster. If he was still hurt he could’ve have stayed on the injured list and carried his Rule 5 status to next season.”
__________________________________________________
That is counter to what the Rule 5 draft is about – getting the guy to MLB faster – and why this should not have been allowed in Song’s case.
People are not pitching in the military.
I would say property is the incorrect term. PHI owned his rights as long as he stayed on the active roster the entire season (or 90 days including IL time). Sox had no rights until PHI chose to offer him back.
They don’t pitch recovering from TJ surgery either. You believe Song didn’t have a Sox advised pitching routine while waiting for his opportunity? If there is any job that would be conducive to someone staying in professional athlete shape it’s the military.
Song said he played some catch. He said nothing about any prescribed pitching programs. I doubt he had much time for that while in the military.
You do realize that staying physically fit is part of your job in the military.
I get that not pitching in actual games creates a lot of rust that very possibly can’t be overcome in 3 months. But it doesn’t mean that his injury is due to the same reason.
Whether it’s rust or talent, he was return because he wasn’t ready to contribute anything meaningful on a MLB roster right now. Same as every rule 5 returnee.
StudWinfield: I will say that you may be right that the Phillies did not seriously injure Song and they did violate any rules, but I think this was unfair to the Red Sox and was counter to the intent of the Rule 5 draft. I think I have made those points well and I think the Rule 5 rules need to change.
That lawsuit wouldn’t go anywhere and the last thing anyone needs is more rules. Chances are this situation will never occur again, or even if it does 20 years from now, there is now a blueprint on why it’s not a great idea. Typical “govern me harder Daddy” millennial.
You think people will learn from this and always remember? I doubt it.
is if you actually think it is possible for a guy to not pitch for over three years and then shake off all the rust and get in shape in 3 months for a MLB season.
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Just imvho, this was all DD looking to screw the RS over. The chances of Song sticking with the Phillies were about as close to -0- as you could get. He probably needs close to two years, even now, to think about making the RS.
It is entirely possible that he might never have had a chance, having been away 3 years and already being 26 year’s old. But the chance of building up arm strength, then repeating A, the AA, then AAA, all in one year, was mean-spirited on DD’s part.
I mean, guys like Ward, Darwonzon & Politi had very little chance, but at least they were active.
Question. Best rule 5 pick of all time?
Jose bautista
Bautista was awful at every stop. He didn’t become a good hitter til he went to Toronto. Bautista’s transaction line following the 2003 season goes:
December 15, 2003: Drafted by the Baltimore Orioles from the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 2003 Rule 5 draft
June 3, 2004: Claimed off of waivers by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays from the Baltimore Orioles
June 28, 2004: Purchased by the Kansas City Royals from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays
July 30, 2004: Traded by the Kansas City Royals to the New York Mets for Justin Huber
July 30, 2004: Traded by the New York Mets with Mike Peterson and Ty Wigginton to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Kris Benson and Jeff Keppinger
and what are you talking about there. maybe 115 ab’s. that’s a lot of sample size there. wasn’t given any opportunity at all in some of those stops.
Point being as a Rule 5 pick he was not a “success”
Joaquim Soria.
The Sox lost Pressly
Roberto Clemente
That was of course a very different time. This century, my vote goes to Johann Santana.
George Bell,
Philly to Toronto
Can’t really argue too much with that, but for an honorable mention I’ll toss out Shane Victorino. He was picked twice in the rule 5.
Clemente
jason werth? shane victorino?
Dan Uggla had some pretty good years with the Marlins as a Rule 5 pick. Josh Hamilton resurrected his career as Rule 5 pick with the Reds in 2007 before really taking off in Texas the folliwing season
Cubs picked Hamilton and traded him to CIN, IIRC.
Likely Clemente, but Christy Mathewson is also a contender.
This song’s for you.
No, you. The song remains the same.
Yup I was wrong thought for sure someone would take a flyer on him.
Happy for the young man he will benefit from a full off-season strengthening program and then a full season in the minors next season.
Hey, Noah! Sing us that song you sang us!
It’s sounding like his swan song for his baseball career.
Cora won’t want him. He’d prefer Hansel Robles.
Hahahahaha!
Where are all the haters with their “I see NO scenario he comes back to Boston”. “Even if Philly doesnt keep him, someone else will grab him”. ‘Because he’s some incredibly great prospect and has so much value.’
People dont realize 3.5 years away form pro ball has major effects on ability. Its not a light switch you can turn off/on again.
Nobody was going to keep him in the major leagues this year. He needs to be in high A ball. That was a ridiculous suggestion Philly saw he wasn’t close. . I wouldn’t be surprised if Boston leaves him unprotected again this off-season.
26 is way to old for 1 year of professional baseball under his belt
Randy Johnson was mediocre until about 30 years old. This kid still has time.
The dude went from low-a to navy to mlb. What a trip. I wonder though what effect rushing him will have on him in the future. Was his back problem caused by this?
He never went to the MLB. I think perhaps just pitching after all this time was the cause of his injury.
You are correct, should have said 40, not mlb
It set him back. He has about a -0- % of pitching professionally this DD didn’t care.
“I think perhaps just pitching after all this time was the cause of his injury.”
Probably correct. And he wouldn’t have been if he wasn’t claimed via Rule V.
Not counting Florida Complex games, just as most newly drafted players dont play in competitive games, for a long, long time after signing, Song should’ve been afforded the same courtesy. —But there was no time for that while taking up a 40-man spot, and having to get innings at MLB level this season.
If he’s seriously injured, especially if he never makes it. Lawsuits will be flying.
The Phillies were high enough on the right-hander to take a chance on carrying him on the big league roster all year
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Absolute nonsense. DD grabbed him because he was angry at the RS. The chances of a 26 year old player, with 17 career A- IPs, nd not having pitched in 3+ years, is probably as close to -0- as you can get.
Did he do that to piss the Sox off or did he do it to make Noah Song some money in his professional career? I could make that argument too.
Gave him quite a bit more than his govt salary would’ve paid. Gives him some cash to keep running through the minor leagues without giving up and making some money another way. Song is a long shot either way.
“Gives him some cash”
“We’re going to bounce you all over the place, put far more stress, in far less time than should reasonably happen, possibly causing long-term damage. This could end any chance of a major league career. But, you will make an extra 300-400K — This works for you right Noah? Oh wait, why am I asking you, you have no choice.”
There, I fixed it for ya.
mang – FWIW I’m pretty sure Dombrowski did it because he believes in Song and is familiar with him, considering he drafted the guy and all.
And i agree, he wouldn’t use up a roster space purely out of spite. It being the Red Sox might have been bonus incentive, but it wasn’t the primary reason.
but it wasn’t the primary reason.
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The chances of him helping the Phillies this year was about -0-.
or did he do it to make Noah Song some money
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Yeah, that’s why he did it. He told the owner he was going to claim him so they could pay him to keep him off of food stamps.
At least the haters can put away their torches now, Wrong again!
Nah, there’s always call for the torches and pitchforks. Give bloom a week and he’ll give us a new cause to use them 😉
“Cause” Like a 3rd catcher to fill-in for an injury, for a week or 2. BLOOM!!!!
Reality be damned. Whatever we can find.
They keep an official list of everything they don’t like that Bloom does. The rest of the world calls it ‘The Red Sox Transaction Page’
Waiting for the apologies from the torch and pitchfork crowd who thought Dembrowski played Bloom……
DD hubris comes back to bite him in the ass. It was clear in Spring Training that Song wasn’t close to being worthy of the 40-man placement/MLB roster and might never be