It was reported back in February that the Orioles had declined a five-year lease extension on their lease at Camden Yards. The hope was that they could work out a longer deal that would allow them to take advantage of a new Maryland law and borrow $600MM for stadium upgrades. It was hoped that the longer deal would be worked out by the All-Star break, but it hasn’t come to fruition, with new reporting from Andy Kostka, Brenda Wintrode, Hallie Miller and Pamela Wood of The Baltimore Banner indicating club CEO and chairman John Angelos is trying to leverage the negotiations to acquire public land.
As noted in the report, Angelos and Maryland Governor Wes Moore took a tour of The Battery in March. The Atlanta area development houses Truist Park, where the Braves play, as well as various other spaces for retail, commercial and residential uses. He seems to see The Battery as a kind of model to emulate, though there are logistical challenges to following that blueprint in Baltimore. As noted in the report from the Banner, the Braves moved away from Turner Field in Atlanta to the suburb of Cumberland, purchasing 82 acres of land and spending $452MM on The Battery.
With that model in mind, Angelos is reportedly trying to get an extra $300MM in state funds as well as public land around Camden Yards, which is holding up a deal as the deadline looms at the end of the year. There are several obstacles to Angelos getting his wish, per the authors of the report.
One complication involves the Baltimore Ravens, who play in M&T Bank Stadium, just south of Camden Yards. The Maryland Stadium Authority lease with the Ravens, which that club signed in January, contains a clause requiring “parity” with their fowl neighbors. If the authority negotiates more favorable terms for the Orioles, they would have to modify their agreement with the Ravens in a comparable fashion.
Another part of that lease is that 4,000 nearby parking spaces have to remain surface lots, not to be turned into underground parking, so as to allow tailgating. The report notes that there are also state-owned parking lots nearby, with the revenue generated from those lots goes to the teams. If the O’s wanted that land, the authority would need to start a procurement process that could involve bids from other developers. One source with knowledge of the negotiations tells the authors that Angelos won’t get the land or money he is seeking.
Regardless of the complicated details, the report notes that the negotiations have shifted, with the plan moving from straightforward stadium upgrades to a much more complex design. A public opinion poll was circulated this week, from an unknown source, asking Marylanders how they felt about the Orioles potentially pursuing a larger revitalization project in a “public-private partnership.”
All this comes on the heels of an apparently tumultuous period for the Angelos family. Reports from 2022 indicated the family had been battling each other over how to move forward with the club after Peter Angelos collapsed in 2017, with Goldman Sachs having been retained to look into the possibility of a sale. There were various lawsuits involving Peter’s wife Georgia and their sons John and Louis, though it was reported in February of 2023 that those had all been dropped, just a few days after the club declined to renew its lease at Camden Yards. John was formally approved by the league’s other owners as the Orioles’ new control person following the 2020 season.
John Angelos has declined to comment on the current matter but Governor Moore expressed optimism about the process. “There is a core belief that this is about what we need to do to create a winner on the field, but also I’m committed to making sure that this is a win for Baltimore, and that this is a win for the state of Maryland,” he said. “We have a shared vision to be able to build a new journey and a new era where having the Orioles and the Ravens and all the other activities you can have in Baltimore … [happen] simultaneously. And we’re all going to win.” The current lease expires on December 31 of this year.
Bonus points to the author for “fowl neighbors”
Makes up for the first sentence.
Kevin Brown’s phone is blinking now!
But also there is no suburb of Cumberland, though there is a mall by that name close by.
Please tell me the Cumberland Mall has a GAP
But minus a few for “suburb of Cumberland.” It’s a nearby mall, but not a municipality.
Technically, if you look it up, there is something to it.
It holds self taxation powers via the CID, so, it has a quasi-municipal status.
It’s not the same as plain unincorporated cobb county, but, it also isn’t the same as say, the cities of Marietta or Sandy Slrings.
This guy cannot stay out of his own way.
Camden seems to be a jewel. Timing of lease expiration and the team playing well is a coincidence but while it’s not Maryland’s responsibility, any new agreement should be linked to a resolution of the MASN issue with the Nationals. The O’s declined their lease extension, what happens if the State plays hardball? I simply wouldn’t trust the Angelos’ family, especially after the Kevin Brown fiasco. How about tying a new deal with the sale of the club?
They want public land? OK, give the public a sizable share of team ownership. Fair is fair.
The Angelos family is one of the less trustworthy in my opinion as far as good faith goes, MASN is the example of that.
I love when uneducated fans talk about Angelos and the MASN deal.
they can give him land around the stadium. it will be trashed and worth far less in 5 years.
How on earth do you propose they tie it to the MASN situation? The state has no dog in that fight and no say in that matter.
I heard Raider’s Stadium is available?
HUGE development at Howard Terminal that is now available. $12 billion development with the local governments covering hundreds of millions in infrastructure. Fisher could not get financing to do the development, but I am sure the Angelos family can,
Kevin Brown would like to comment on this, but…
He already made a statement while held at gunpoint
I was going to wear my 1983 World series champs shirt I got off homage but I’m afraid that might be construed as a diss and I’d be escorted out.
“O’s fans – I’m a storyteller,” Brown’s statement began. “And never want to be a part of the story. The most compelling story in baseball right now is the story of the league-leading Baltimore Orioles – the best, most exciting young team in the American League. Unfortunately, recent media reports have mischaracterized my relationship with my adopted hometown Orioles.
“The fact is that I have a wonderful relationship with the organization and our ownership and front office has fully supported me since 2019 when I first came aboard. I ask that everyone disregard the distracting noise of the past few days. I have worked closely with O’s SVP Greg Bader for the past four years, and John Angelos and I have a solid dialogue based on mutual respect. We are all good here in Birdland! I am proud to be an Oriole and call Baltimore home, and there is no place in baseball I’d rather be right now and for the long haul. Go O’s!”
~Kevin Brown today
Head meet gun.
Head made of block. If Brown was employable elsewhere, he would have left. There is an underlying issue that the team is not making public because they cannot legally do so. Some day after a game, go talk to Kevin Brown and tell me if you can figure out why he was suspended just from the smell.
You are going to see more and more teams from all sports wanting to build new stadiums and arenas with a complex on the outskirts to make more money, and also to have a more immersive fan experience. The issues will always be land especially in cities. The Braves were able to move into the suburbs because they have a heavy fan base outside the city of Atlanta and it’s reasonably populated. Many teams don’t have the luxury especially smaller markets.
Honestly, the smaller markets tend to have a much larger ability to do so. You can’t do this in westchester, but you expand into the suburbs of Pittsburgh and you have plenty of space to do so
I think you’re probably half right: smaller markets have the ability to provide the land. The fan base outside the city, however, may not be large enough to support the team, and the city-dwellers may not be as willing to make the drive.
And it’s costing theCounty taxpayers $60 million a year in subsidies…..
The Giants have been doing this over the past 10 years or so, developing land around McCovey Cove in conjunction with the Port of San Francisco. They are literally printing money doing this.
John Angelos hit paydirt with the consultants he brought in to advise him on the strategy for on field success. On the business side? Maybe? Dunno? But, it does look like his consultant’s here are pushing the land grab model, whether that be around OPACY or pulling up stakes and moving to the burbs. Hope it happens right there at the Yards. Hell of a venue.
There’s no realistic suburb for the O’s to go to. Columbia is too close to DC. Nothing north of Baltimore makes any sense. They’re staying put
Nor would they move to Frederick – too small and too far away.
I was unaware that baseball teams have the ability to literally print money. If so, they should drop their ticket prices.
Giants are doing this
Except their stadium and everything around the stadium is privately financed. Taxpayers were not forced to participate.
San Francisco did help by removing the height restrictions for waterfront building.
Likewise , the Giants stadium while privately financed also help revitalize a blighted , non valuable and used part of the city.
Angelos doesn’t want to sign a lease unless the city hands over valuable land that they already improved – I guess his threat is they can move the team if the city doesn’t give in.
Doesn’t sound like a valid threat – just keep upping the lease rate for every week he stalls.
Except for the A’s who had one approved in Oakland but are choosing to go play in Las Vegas.
Tell Angelos to take a hike. Another billionaire looking to make hundreds of millions off the backs of taxpayers in an area where maybe 10 percent of the population really cares about the Orioles. What a scumbag.
The family is asset rich, but not cash rich. They don’t have the capital to develop the property. This guy is way in over his head
Angelos has been told there’s an underground train station under some of the area he wants and building on it is insane. Also the Ravens aren’t giving up their parking spaces.
But Angelos is stubborn!
The Angelos family is right up there on the lists in terms of worst ownership in sports.
For hating public handouts, billionaires sure do ask for a lot of them
Ok….let me see if I have this right. A billionaire Orioles owner, his team with one of the best records in baseball, playing in one of the best stadiums, wants taxpayers, in a bad economy, to “chip in” millions so that his billions will increase? Is that correct?
The Baltimore city property tax is already ridiculous. I sold my rental property last year to get away from that. Last thing the city needs is another tax hike.
So I’m right? I thought that I definitely was missing something. Nutty.
Baltimore could use reasonable assessment on high-dollar properties.. You see million-dollar property sales retain an assessment value of $400k and wonder why certain people escape with paying taxes on half the real market value of their property.
And then his rich buddies will complain about all the crime and infrastructure issues the city has once he’s gotten his handout.
It’s unbelievable that somehow a stadium which could go down the road of Fenway or Wrigley decades from now will be vacated so we could have a mall/ballpark situation.
That’s right and I hope he gets even more from the state…..sock it to the little guys while he lines his pockets. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
In a bad economy? What economy are you living in my friend? We have been killing it the last two years, best economy of my whole life. Well, I guess the 90s were awesome when I was a kid, but as an adult, it’s never been better. My company has blown up the since 2021 and most people I know are riding the same huge wave. Curious to understand “bad economy” right now?
Finally have a good year in god only knows how many seasons and acts like an entitled jackass as usual. Makes it hard to root for Orioles.
I always care more about ownership than the team on the field. /s
I wish Steve Bisciotti could buy the baseball team too. John’s made a lot of progress but he’s still Peter’s son… Obviously can’t expect him to be the polar opposite….
Or even Stephen Piscotty, he’s not busy right now.
We can start a go fund me for Stephen Piscotty. Only need about 1.099Billion more!
That’s what I was thinking. Either that or he gets it at a really discounted price – like a 99.999% Off Sale.
Some people can’t leave a good thing alone. Take the free money and upgrade the stadium. One of the most beautiful parks in MLB, leave it alone. Just have a great team with a great park and stop pissing off the fan base.
How can such a giant @rsehole ruin such a fine young team.
Him and John Fisher can continue to be m@sturbatorial characters.
I wouldn’t cross the street to urinate on either of them if they were on fire.
I hope I’ve spoken with clarity…
A’sfaninLondonUK;
It’s not the same situation at all. You don’t have the gray matter to comprehend that. You’re just filled with a sense of entitlement and hate for those that don’t enable people like you.
Apparently you had to change your handle because so many – like me – were sick of you and put you on Mute. Well…..
You go back with this ID.
Not the same guy.
Thanks Donny, no I’m not the same guy. I’ve personally muted that guy, and have been on MLBTR a long longer than him. I’d also like to run him over with a steamroller, but I don’t like long queues.
@Samuel – you’re right – my English grey matter is thin on the ground. However, so is my sense of entitlement. I just find the (entitlement? ;0)) demands or expectations of ownership, such as John Fisher or the Angelos family to ask tax payers to fund their pipe dream as rather sickly.
Am I wrong, stupid or naive?
Enjoy a wonderful weekend – I’m counting off the 14 days before flying across for new parks in Phoenix, San Diego & Anaheim. I’m a curse! – when the lady wife & I planned the trip they all had chances of the play-offs. I would have chosen Houston had I have known of my curse….
OK, so who was the other person?
He can’t ruin “such a fine young team.” Maybe for people who are fans of other teams the owners are the breaking point.
Where would everyone rank him on the worst/slimiest owner rankings? He’s gotta be up there with manfort, fisher, moreno right?
Angelos is also looking for home team announcers who only report statistics that show the Orioles in a good light, but that’s another story.
There – demanding homers as announcers – is a way that John and Peter have acted exactly alike Maybe the only way,
Baltimore should demand Kevin Brown be compensated for his wrongful suspension as part of the deal.
The number one way sports franchise owners make money is by buying up and then leasing or selling properties around the stadium. It’s a tried and true method for growing billions of dollars of wealth. Angelos wants the land “donated” so he can turn around and sell/lease it. New low.
Also, very shrewd of the Orioles to be pushing so hard for this now, in their first breaths of competitive play in a decade after being pretty much the worst team of all time for half a decade.
Unlike teams like the Athletics or Rays, the Orioles play games in a beautiful stadium with plenty of space to engage with fans. Oriole Park at Camden Yards is great venue and meets all the team’s needs already. I see no reason for Baltimore or Maryland to cave here.
I don’t think moving the stadium is even a remote possibility or what he’s asking for. He just wants land around the stadium donated his way. There’s certainly a market to develop that land and make money but he can foot the bill to purchase it or cash out and live the life he wants. The area behind the ravens stadium has been built up for the last 5 years with a casino/hotel/top golf & more coming.
BUT this is probably the start of the negotiation and eventually he’ll get an advantageous price on that land. Would not surprise me one bit.
Bstrowman9;
Some are comparing this to the situation in Oakland. It’s not the same. While both owners wanted what the Cardinals and Cubs got – a complex around their park catering to upper income people with expendable funds – the A’s needed a new park and played in a dangerous area.
The City of Anaheim stood up to Arte Moreno when he wanted to do the same thing there.
The City of Baltimore will do the same as Anaheim did.
–
Baltimore has supported the Orioles, and the Commissioner is already on record as saying the team will not be moving – and the other owners would not vote to approve it anyway.
Yeah, It’s not like Oakland at all. The orioles have gotten a sweet deal from the state and the city for decades. The stadium is in great shape and they’ve been doing renovations + a Sportsbook in there. I do think he’ll get something else to sweeten the deal. Obviously not this but he’s obviously fishing to see just how much he can. I don’t believe he’ll walk away from the team at this point and sell. I never thought the O’s were going anywhere.
I GUARANTEE you (even harder than George Zimmer at Mens Wearhouse back in the day) if the Orioles had even a remote possibility of being able to move, Angelos would be hinting at the threat. The only reason Angelos isn’t threatening moving is because it’s just about theoretically impossible.
I can’t see any reason to give Angelos any special treatment whatsoever.
He has hinted at a move and the team has hired big time financial,advisers as consultants on a possible sale.
@dclivejazz – Source please. There are plenty out there where Angelos is iron clad in not moving the team.
usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2022/06/13/orioles-c…
cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/never-going-anywhere-or…
Even recently in the Athletic it was made clear the team isn’t moving and Manfred wouldn’t allow a move, period.
Different strategies are employed under different circumstances. I think it is not because MLB would not vote in favor of a move out of Baltimore, but rather JA is playing nice with the new Governor.
John Angelos has never hinted at a move. His BROTHER claimed that John wanted to move the team, but John never said that anywhere publicly. He has been consistent in saying the team is staying in Baltimore.
The family hired Goldman Sachs to explore the team’s value, but not for a sale. To determine their tax liability when Peter dies.
Yeah, I never suggested anything else. It was Louie who accused John of wanting to move to nashville. Nowhere in what I wrote can be construed has John saying he wanted to move the team
Best case for John A is that the State agrees to declare eminent domain on the retail park with Poptronics, SW of Russel & Hamburg. . Maybe the State gives the Orioles the land in lieu of the additional $300MM requested.
Probably won’t also get eminent domain on the business space at the NW corner of Russell & Hamburg. Probably won’t get land South of Ostend where Paradox was.
Nobody is going to be willing at this time to spend money on building the parking lots into garages.
Since the Orioles are asking for an additional $300 million in loans on top of the $600 million the state had already approved, I hope they don’t give him any land. Just lease it to him. In my opinion, states should not be financing development for billionaires.
The state owns that land from MLK to the rail tracks between Russell and Paca. They lease it to the businesses there.
One of my clients is Emergent BioSolutions and have been to their facility there on S Paca many times. They have been afraid that when their lease is up on the land in 2027 that the state will not extend it and they will lose their investment in that facility.
I have seen nothing about the Orioles wanting to develop that area, just the area between the 2 stadiums.
I doubt that Maryland would go West as far as Emergent; I was suggesting the Capital Electric building and the Poptronics/OPEX building+Cole Roofing. Maybe they could move parking over there and build a pedestrian bridge or two over Russell. Then development in Lot A and/or Lot B would be viable.
Can you confirm that you are 100% certain that the State of Maryland owns the entirety of the “land from MLK to the rail tracks between Russell and Paca?” If that is the case, then it would not have to declare eminent domain to demolish and develop those tracts I was envisioning for entertainment development proposals. I ask because I own a house 500 feet from Paca and Hamburg
I know Emergent is under lease from the state and was told by them that the entire area is.
I like your idea about moving parking there and developing closer to the stadiums.
Exact opposite. He wants to lease the land from the state so he can develop it instead of it being parking lots. Build parking garages, restaurants, and other commercial shops much like The Battery in Atlanta, only smaller.
They are talking about the area between OPACY and M&T. Parking lots A, B, C and the Lee street parking lots on both sides of Raven’s walk. .
The biggest question becomes lots B&C. I am sure that is something some dollars thrown the Raven’s way will solve.
do they make orange clown noses that we can sell on the streets near Camden Yards to protest “Johnny the A$sclown”?
@Enrico
To be fair to Arte Moreno, he does actually invest in players. Usually the wrong ones, but he does try.
Whereas Angelos & Fisher pray that someone else will come up with the money
You’re are not talking about Peter, right.
It’s going to be a good day when the Angelos family is finally out of baseball
I’ll never stop disliking this stuff..free land, free money for entirely private businesses.
Mikenmn;
The easiest way of making money in American society today is getting in with the right politicians and finding a way to get public money. America has always had some of that. But it’s out of hand. Again. (Read up on the Teapot Dome scandal.) It’s become so blatant that everyone wants in. And those politicians aren’t retiring depending on Social Security.
When a politician says they want to “help you”, nod and immediately take both of your hands and firmly hold onto your wallet until they’re out of sight.
OK, Boomer. I mean OK, Reagan.
The power and control of billionaires is the biggest problem in this country and the biggest enemy of middle class and working class Americans. Their out-sized influence over media and politics is the existential threat to democracy the U.S.
Tell it to the billionaires in Silicone Valley.
How’s your lollipop?
What am I telling them and other billionaires – that they have outsized influence over government which makes a mockery of democracy? That they are like Russian oligarchs and they make our country a kleptocracy. OK, I would be happy to.
There’s multiple MLB teams where the ownership is passed down from family and in some of those cases the team is the substantial majority of that family’s net worth. MLB has become VERY big business and I question whether ownership groups like the one I described and for whom I would include the Orioles is actually well enough capitalized 2023 MLB, “franchise appreciation” doesn’t pay the bills.
As someone from the west coast, I’ve never read any about the “business side” of the Orioles operations that has lead me to believe they are capable executives of doing what the corporate owned Braves have done in suburb Atlanta.
MLB is about a $10 billion dollar business. That sounds big but really isn’t compared to true big businesses. It just seems bigger than it is to us because we’re steeped in it and have watched the rise of contracts and tickets, etc., over the years.
This is more about the change in the business of MLB from when Peter Angelos’ group first purchased the team to MLB now in 2023. While it’s an ownership group has many famous people with local ties to Baltimore, it’s by no means a “wealthy” group by today’s standards. It’s unlikely this group could buy this team if it were on the market.
This is year 30 for this group, among the minority owners Tom Clancy’s estate owns 12% his former wife owns also 12%, Harvey Meyerhoff another owner just passed away in the past week.
So riddle me this Baltimore locals, where the F does John Angelos think he can possibly move the team when the team is the majority owner of MASN? Between that fact and the language in the Raven’s deal, it appears the Orioles don’t have much leverage here.
John Angelos is worth $2 billion himself. His family about $5 billion. They could certainly buy a team.
As far as I can find, the Angelos currently own 100% of the .Orioles. Clancy divested his share when he divorced.
Manfred said it was a $12 billion business and I don’t think he would overstate how much they are making because that would give the MLBPA more ammunition against them in the next CBA negotiations. It’s more likely he understated it and its over $12 billion,
He’s a total jerk
Gotta love the Ravens’ “parity clause.” That’s super shrewd!
The ravens are a top 5 football organization. Makes total sense that they’d have their stuff buttoned up. John should watch how they run things across the street.
Bisciotti doesn’t get himself in the headlines.
The Ravens were 10th in total attendance and 15th in percentage of capacity last season. That 2nd one is an important number because they don’t get broadcast if they don’t have a sellout. The Ravens were 18th in total revenue.
I am absolutely sure that Bisciotti would be happy to see the Orioles take out loans to improve the area where his stadium also sits even if the Orioles make a little more money than they are now.
JOHN Angelos became managing partner of the Orioles in mid-2020 and has overseen the Orioles go from losing 110 games in his first full season as managing partner to leading the AL East and having the 2nd best record in baseball.
His first season was COVID, so no fans in the stands but in 3 subsequent years they have went from averaging 9,783 attendance per game to 16,893 to 23,059 this season.
JOHN Angelos has led MASN as President and COO since 2005 and during that time they have more than doubled the foothold of the network to be available to 18 million viewers. It is the 3rd largest viewership of any RSN.
From all indications, John Angelos knows what he is doing and the Orioles are doing well.
Just visited Camden yards for the first time recently and boy was I impressed! The ballpark itself really doesn’t need to be touched. Even though it was built in 92, it looks like it’s brand new and that area out in right field where the old industrial building is, is top notch. City of Baltimore itself was definitely “interesting” so yeah, maybe enhancing the experience directly outside the ball park might be a bigger attraction, but that ballpark definitely lived up to its reputation.
Call his bluff. Where’s he gonna go?
Nashville, Charlotte, Louisville, Montreal, Austin, San Antonio, Portland, Vancouver, and the loser between Oakland/Las Vegas. Any of these cities would love to have the Orioles. So I would not be so quick to say stiff Angelos completely
1. None of those areas have a major league park.
2, All would be taking fans away from MLB teams they currently root for.
3. All will be small market teams.
And to add to Samuel:
4) the rest of mlb ownership will never vote to authorize relocation. Angelos actions towards mlb itself and the Nats in particular guarantee that.
Of course MLB would authorize relocation. MLB signed that agreement to give MASN control of the broadcast rights in the greater DC/Baltimore area and part of it is the Orioles lose those rights if they move. MLB would be doing backflips of joy if the Orioles wanted to move.
That is also part of the reason why John Angelos does NOT want to move.
State owned land with the revenue going towards the team, read billionaires while the city is hurting to mis spend the funds.
Kevin brown – what’s your 2c on this?
He’s not allowed to discuss it
Chavez Ravine, Wikipedia :
Following protracted negotiations, the City of Los Angeles was able to repurchase the Chavez Ravine property from the Federal Housing Authority at a drastically reduced price, with the stipulation that the land be used for a public purpose.
Following the “baseball referendum”, promoted by the Taxpayers Committee for Yes on Baseball, which was approved by Los Angeles voters on June 3, 1958, the city made the controversial decision to trade 352 acres (142 ha) of land at Chavez Ravine to the Brooklyn Dodgers and team’s owner Walter O’Malley in exchange for land around the minor league park, Wrigley Field, with the aim of providing incentives for migration to Los Angeles.[12] From their arrival in Los Angeles in 1958 until 1961, the Dodgers played their home games at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum; Dodger Stadium officially opened in 1962.
The best man in our wedding is now in the leadership in the Maryland Senate. He is saying that the state will give them the land and the extra $300 million loan and the Ravens and Orioles will come to an agreement on how to split it up. The biggest issue will be the parking since the Ravens have in their agreement that 4k spots will be available for tailgating.
It will hurt both teams if they don’t figure out how to share the land for private development so he is pretty sure something is going to get done.
This is complete and utter bullshat!
Yes, your comment is complete and utter BS. If you have other information. please share. Until then I will have to believe one of my best friends.
What land are they getting?
The Ravens get whatever the Orioles get so why would the two teams have to “come to an agreement on how to split (“the $300MM loan”) up?”
The Ravens have in their lease that they have to get a similar offer to whatever the Orioles get. To make it work, the two teams have to work together.
The loan the Orioles can get with no reciprocation for the Ravens is $600 million and that would be for upgrades to the ballpark.
The additional $300 million loan is what the state would have to either give to the Ravens or the Orioles would have to split with the Ravens.
The Ravens would get the equal amount that the Orioles get. They wouldn’t have to decide how to divvy it up. It’s not like it would be a loan where the Ravens get 60% in the Orioles get 40% or vice versa.
There no space there to build is dream 365 live work play. The surface lots are not going to work. There is the hideous Hilton owned by the city that loses money every year…maybe make that eyesore a mix use building and expand to the low rise building beside it. Putting a big development between the stadiums is a terrible idea
There is already a big development going in South of the stadiums: Warner Street Entertainment District
Why would you not want to have a restaurants and other related shops between the stadiums?
Nothing I said can be construed as me not wanting to have shops. These are fallacious arguments that you’re making, claiming I’m saying things that I’m not
Ra, you didn’t say anything. Lets Go O’s said “Putting a big development between the stadiums is a terrible idea”
On this message board its hard to see who is responding to whom.
True, it is very difficult to see who is responding to whom.
I would love to see both the Warner Entertainment District (South of Ravens) succeed AND explore another venture either between the stadia or just to the West of and adjacent to the Camden Yards complex.
I’d love to see Maryland play hardball against Angelos. Camden Yards is one of the best parks in baseball even by contemporary standards. Love how these billionaires are never content with the good situations they have. Orioles fans deserve better
Camden Yards is over 30 years old and doesn’t offer many of the amenities you see for fans in newer ballparks. Its still beautiful, but its far behind the times.
Born in bmore, it’s never gonna change until there is new ownership, needs to be consortium of Maryland based backers to purchase team frm Angelos’, group led by Ripken w/minority owners like Ravens owner Biscotti, Under Armours Plank, etc. Angelos’ have held that town hostage long enough. With consortium in place MLB can lean on family 2sell cause all the owners will benefit from influx of money n spending by new ownership. Just like nfl just showed Commanders owner the door … make em an other they can’t refuse plus payback 4masn deal w/Nats … We can only dream
“Needs” to be Ripken- led. Nah, no thanks.
Timing is everything in life. Good luck with that.
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
Cities should just do what Oakland did and say no when a billionaire owner asks for free stuff.
Sucks for the fans when a team leaves but there are countless studies showing that funding a stadium is a bad deal for taxpayers. The gains are overestimated and the costs are underestimated.
poor ole Angelos… the taxpayers OWE that poor guy some free land and should throw in a stadium so he can stay off the soup line…
I see this as a shakedown to get State funding/agreement. There aren’t many taxpayers left in Baltimore City.
Were the team to move to the suburbs, which is highly unlikely, DC would fight any move to the south or southwest. They could throw a lot of money at something like Essex but that takes fans Towson west to Columbia out of play because of the impossibility of traffic (for those not in the area, the locals successfully blocked I-70 from going through the city to 95 to “preserve the neighborhoods” back in the ’60s and caused permanent gridlock of 695, and all the neighborhoods they were worried about crumbled anyway). Hunt Valley wouldn’t be a bad location except it takes all the southern fans out of the equation.
Nope, the only solution is to hope to shake down the state and revitalize enough of the surrounding area downtown to have a sufficient bubble to make fans feel safe and give them things to do except run back to their cars and drive away after the game. Of course, one issue is that Federal Hill is close by and they can’t eminent domain that, as Federal Hill contains a good portion of the remaining taxpayers…and there’s water to the other side lol.
You stumbled ass-backwards into being right that the Orioles won’t move by getting many of your supporting “facts” wrong.
Ra – incorrect as usual. See note I already wrote below
Do you live on the moon? Clearly you don’t live in Baltimore. Your posts are always rife with errors. You’re a waste of time.
Its seriously sad how many people can’t read or choose not to read the article or click on links in the articles to learn more before commenting. The Orioles are looking for a loan and land they can lease from the state to develop. They are not looking for a handout.
They already play in a 30+ year old stadium in need of many upgrades and lots of maintenance and they are offering to pay for it all as long as the state gives them a loan to make it possible.
Pads Fans – you’re completely missing the point. Any agreement would include investment by the state…in other words…the taxpayers. Angelos won’t take the loan on without it ESPECIALLY given the Ravens’ benefiting from it without having to take out money.
He wants the state to pay. The state wants him to pay. The eventual agreement will be something like the state agrees to loan him $400 million for stadium upgrades and the state will also provide $400 million public funding to improve the area which satisfies the clause where the Ravens mutually benefit. And the taxpayers will still be out $800 million (with some “eventually” being paid back or subject to being eaten by the state in the future when he complains again).
I read the agreement. I also read this article and the linked one. Its a $600 million LOAN and they are asking for the ability to LEASE land from the state and develop it and get an additional $300 million LOAN.
From the article. “that would allow them to take advantage of a new Maryland law and borrow $600MM for stadium upgrades.”
Angelos has not asked the state to pay for the stadium upgrades or the land development. Just asking them to give the team a LOAN.
I ask all this is the same state legislature that tried eminent domain on the Colts which led to Irsay moving the g-d- team just weeks after he said he wasn’t doing that. The state is going to want Angelos to pony up money.
I know exactly what the article says, I just see an outcome where the state gives the loan, Angelos may have to match it, and also money given to the area to satisfy the clause in the Ravens deal. That way no one gets what they really want and the taxpayers hold a bigger overall bill…that’s how Maryland politics work.
Its a loan. $600 million LOAN that is already approved and the additional $300 million loan Angelos is asking for. The taxpayers hold no “bill” in this case, they just are lending Angelos money to fix up the area instead of the taxpayers having to foot the bill.
The taxpayers are not even being asked to give the Orioles land, just lease it to them so they can develop it instead of it being parking lots and concrete.
Lots D, E, F, G, and H will have to stay surface lots to satisfy the 4000 spot agreement with the Ravens, but lot A can become a plaza with restaurants and shops. and either Lot B or C south of MLK (and/or the Lee street parking lot) can become a parking garage or parts of both. That way the Raven’s walk area can also be turned into a more park like area with some permanent commercial mixed in, not just those temporary tents as you walk through concrete. That is what the renderings show.
One of my best friends and the best man at our wedding, who just spent the last 4 days in San Diego to see the Padres beat the Orioles, is in the Maryland Senate. I had hours and hours to talk to him about this situation among other things. He was crystal clear that he believes the Orioles are going nowhere and something will be worked out with the Ravens to get a bigger deal done than the $600 million loan that has already been approved. But maybe you know more than he does.
Pads – having not been in the city since 2014 (and I don’t miss it) is there any discussion outside of the parking lots mentioned, which I did see in one article, of taking over any surrounding buildings to the south, southwest, or west? I had read several articles with “officials” quoted about looking at a redo of the Pratt St corridor/inner harbor area which was state of the art in 1982 and outdated now.
When they first planned this area in the late 80s that section was a run down blank canvas, but 35 years later the stadiums appear “shoehorned” into that section of town. Funny how things change over time.
When I talked about “where would they go” in the suburbs I wasn’t clear, I was putting it out there as a “there’s nowhere they’ll go” . They’re either going to stay at CY or they’re going to completely leave the city.
But the very fact that they haven’t signed anything means that some kind of shakedown for more funding is occurring. I don’t think the 600M loan is going to be the end of the discussion. That’s how we end up with an “inflation reduction act” which adds a trillion to the deficit.
The State of Maryland did not attempt to pursue eminent domain on the Colts franchise until after the Mayflower trucks had rolled out of town. Once AGAIN, you got the facts WRONG!
You expose your ignorance once again, this time on national politics. How do you function day-to-day when you get everything wrong?