The Reds have told other teams that they are willing to trade second baseman Jonathan India, reports Mark Feinsand of MLB.com, in order to obtain young, controllable starting pitching. This marks a shift from a couple of months ago, when the club was reported to be disinclined to trading him.
The change in attitude is surprising, as India was awarded Rookie of the Year honors in the National League less than two years ago, taking that trophy in 2021. But there are also some reasons why it’s a logical pivot for the club. For one thing, the club has vaulted itself into contention this year, ahead of the expectations of just about everyone. They were 26-29 at the time of that report from June 1 that said they were disinclined to move India, but they are now up to 55-46 and just half a game behind the Brewers in the National League Central.
That ascent has been fueled by a parade of infield prospects coming up to the majors and succeeding this year. Spencer Steer made his debut last year and cracked this year’s Opening Day roster. He’s seized an everyday role by hitting .277/.363/.461 for a wRC+ of 118, a breakout that MLBTR’s Anthony Franco recently looked at in more detail. Elly De La Cruz has cooled off a bit after a scorching hot start but is still a menace on the basepaths. Matt McLain is hitting .305/.371/.528 for a wRC+ of 137 while providing above-average middle infield defense.Christian Encarnacion-Strand was recently promoted after demolishing Triple-A pitching and has held his own in the majors through seven games. In addition to those youngers, veteran Joey Votto has also provided a jolt since returning from the injured list not too long ago.
The combination of those performances is a huge reason why the club is faring so well this year, but also has the side effect of crowding out their position player mix. Steer was playing third earlier in the season but moved to first a bit more when De La Cruz came up. With Votto off the injured list and Encarnacion-Strand in the mix at first as well, Steer has also seen some time in left field, joining an outfield mix that includes TJ Friedl, Jake Fraley, Will Benson and Nick Senzel.
As all of that has been going on, India has cooled off from a hot start. He was hitting .282/.369/.426 through the end of May for a wRC+ of 112, which is when it was reported that the Reds weren’t planning to move him. It seemed like India was bouncing back from an injury-marred 2022 season where he hit .249/.327/.378 for a 95 wRC+, getting closer to his Rookie of the Year form from 2021 where he hit .269/.376/.459 and earned a wRC+ of 120.
But since the calendar flipped to June, he’s posted a diminished line of .214/.299/.393, which translated to an 83 wRC+. That’s brought his season-long line down to .251/.338/.411 and his wRC+ to 99, just a hair below league average for the season as a whole.
Teams generally shouldn’t wildly change their player evaluations based on a couple of months, and some bad luck has probably been impacting India’s results anyhow. He has a .228 batting average on balls in play since the start of June, well below the .329 mark he had at the end of May. But he might still end up the odd man out in Cincinnati given the success of all the aforementioned players. If India were subtracted from the picture, the club could still have an infield of Steer, De La Cruz, McLain and Encarnacion-Strand/Votto from left to right. Senzel and Kevin Newman can serve as the depth pieces, though the latter is currently on the injured list due to gastritis.
India has only played second base in his major league career, generally getting subpar grades at that spot, and brings a bit less versatility than most of the club’s other infield options. But he would still figure to have plenty of trade value based on his track record. His struggles last year coincided with multiple trips to the injured list due to hamstring issues and he seemed to be back on track here in 2023 before his recent dip. He’s also still young and cheap, having exactly two years of major league service time coming into the current campaign. That means he’ll finish this year at the three-year mark and qualify for arbitration for the first time, with free agency not slated until after 2026.
This year’s trade deadline seems like it will be unique, with so many clubs hovering near contention due to the expanded postseason and some weak divisions. That’s led to widespread speculation that there will be more so-called “baseball trades” wherein two contending clubs each trade win-now pieces, subtracting from an area of surplus in order to address an area of need. Perhaps a different season would have seen more trade rumors surrounding a prospect like Noelvi Marte, who is playing well in Triple-A, but the Reds’ theoretical trading partner might prefer an established big leaguer like India.
But the Reds quite clearly need pitching and might have to give up something to get it. Their rotation was supposed to be fronted by Nick Lodolo and Hunter Greene but each has been on the injured list for over a month, with returns not likely until August. Other starters like Justin Dunn, Connor Overton and Vladimir Gutierrez are also on the IL, leaving the club with a rotation of Andrew Abbott, Ben Lively, Graham Ashcraft, Brandon Williamson and Luke Weaver. Each of the latter three have an ERA of 4.60 or higher, with Weaver’s all the way up at 7.20 this year. Lively has a 3.88 ERA but hasn’t had a regular role in the majors in years and just recently came off an IL stint due to a pectoral strain. Abbott has been great this year but his career consists of just nine total starts.
There’s plenty of question marks in there so the Reds will be looking to add pitching, with general manager Nick Krall having admitted long ago that arms will be a target for them this summer. The fact that they are willing to consider India in such talks is notable but doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a lock to be moved. They will first have to line up on a deal with a club that needs a second baseman and also has controllable pitching to move.
The Dodgers would be one speculative fit since they have dealt with various challenges in the middle infield. Gavin Lux required knee surgery during the spring and isn’t expected back at all this year. Chris Taylor also missed significant time while Miguel Rojas has hardly hit, which forced the club to move Mookie Betts in from his customary right field position to play both middle infield spots. They have plenty of the young and controllable starters that the Reds seek but are currently using it themselves. With starters like Clayton Kershaw, Dustin May and Noah Syndergaard on the IL, they have rookies Bobby Miller, Emmet Sheehan and Michael Grove currently in their rotation.
It would be a similar story in trying to line up with other clubs. Most contenders are looking to add pitching at this time of year, not subtract it. Young and controllable pitching is generally the toughest to pry loose. The Yankees traded Jordan Montgomery for Harrison Bader last year, but that was when the lefty had just a year and a half of club control remaining. Even if there is a club willing to deal a controllable pitcher, they would also need to have a bit of a hole at second and believe in India getting past his recent slump. Time will tell whether anything comes together but it’s an interesting turnaround for the Reds given where things were just a few months ago, when the club seemed to be rebuilding and India felt like a core piece.
Trading India sounds like a smart long-term play; the team is pitching starved. Betweeen, Collier, Marte and Arroyo the team should have no trouble filling out the infield in years to come.
I disagree. Votto is something like 1 hit in his last 21 at-bats. When Stephenson catches, India can DH, having 5 infielders for 4 spots is a good thing, and Steer is competent in LF. For the right return anyone but Delly could be dealt, but the odds of this is and should be quite low.
This is not it.
The idea is smart, but the timing is wrong. Team leaders on playoff contenders should not be traded at the deadline…better to trade that type piece in the offseason. Reds should be looking at rentals to shore up the rotation, to avoid disrupting the chemistry of the current team as well as preserving the long-term future pieces.
Morale and chemistry is such a fan take. It is obvious that India is the weak link in the infield.
I think you need to weigh this against the inflated returns that come at the deadline. Fans blamed the Hader trade for knocking the Brewers out of the playoffs when the team simply was dropping winnable games. They then converted Esteury Ruiz into Joel Payamps and William Contreras, among others. Both have been absolutely vital to keeping the team in contention.
Nah, no trades with the Reds! India is a nice player but isn’t worth the 2 top prospects(5-10) that Cincy will ask for. I’d fine another team to deal with.
Tigers sp for India or a different controllable infielder?
Captain-Judge99 he’s better than anyone in your godforsaken infield and the Yankees would jump at that opportunity to trade anyone outside of Dominguez for India
Skubal for India might not be a bad deal for either side. I doubt India would be enough for Manning though.
@cr4- nice try I’d take Gleyber, Volpe, or Peraza over India any day of the week. Not getting Dominguez either. Cincy blew that last season, when they had that opportunity for Castillo they said we’ll get back to you, then took the crappy Mariner offer. Horrible trade Reds got ripped off!
You might want to circle back and look at that again…
I’d say just about every analyst in baseball disagrees with your “reds blew that” sentiment
Really Dhud? – a package of Dominguez, Medina, Sweeney, Sears and Waldichuk would of been a lot better then what they received from Seattle, so I could careless what these analysts have to say. I bet the Reds will eventually regret not trading for Jasson Dominguez in the long run.
Not alkaline-
I was thinking the same thing, but it wouldn’t work. The Tigers aren’t going to trade one of their young controllable pitchers. Nor should they.
It was reported in Cincy that Cash was the one who blew that trade. Apparently, he had been talking down to Krall and being very demanding about who he was willing to send. They didn’t even speak for the last two weeks leading up to the deadline.
Manning has been more inconsistent and injury prone than Skubal. No-hitter aside he is the lesser pitcher of the two.
No one wants over-hyped Yankee prospects. Last I looked, Volpe is hitting like .220.
“Could careless” what the ppl who actually get paid for their opinion of the game…and listen to you instead
Ok
Additionally
Show where that was ever the offer for Castillo, seems like you’re just inflating a hypothetical deal to try to make reds look foolish
And also, both prospects the reds got from Seattle are rated as higher prospects than Dominguez, so by that alone the reds did not blow it
It was the Reds who turned it down. Reported in all the major outlets.
Volpe is hitting .209 and he is still more valuable than India by a large margin. Defense matters.
…and I would still take him over Jonathan India
Tarik Skubal is not going anywhere. I can see Manning going before Skubal but they’re both pitchers and Jonathan India won’t get it done.
@titanic struggle- Cashman went back to Krall after the Yankees rejected the offer of Dominguez and either Peraza or Volpe. The Yankees then offered the package that I presented, and the Reds said we’ll get back to you and never did accepting the weaker Mariner offer instead. I believe that package contained 3 minor league shortstops(with Marte being the best of the bunch and a minor league pitcher named Levi)
@DHud- No the Reds look foolish all by themselves, just like you do right now. The Yankees were in on Castillo until the Reds accepted the weaker Mariner package instead. Cincy lost out on Dominguez a power hitting outfield prospect they really need, who should be ready sometime next season. Probably right after the All-Star break. So yes Cincy blew it by accepting a weaker package! Smh
That Mariner offer was superior to the Yankees offer. Waldichuk looks like crap and the Yankees shouldn’t have tried to keep there best prospect.
Gleybor about 2 months ago was wanted gone.Now he is a corner stone of their offense.
You’re talking out your behind
You have no idea. Castillo trade terrible; rip off? Arroyo, Marte, Stout terrible prospects? You’re ignorant. Reds actually did very well. We’ll talk in’24. You can eat crow then.
Stricke3 he’s just another blowhard yankee fan that thinks all their prospects are the next MVP. He’s been hyping Dominguez up and been big mad about yanks blowing the Castillo trade for an entire year
Where is your proof that is what they offered?
I see your Skubal and raise you a Giolito.
It’s funny I never said I wanted Castillo! Truth be told, glad he isn’t a Yankee.
I don’t think the Tigers go after Jonathan India. Although he has some exceptional leadership qualities, his defense is so much worse than it should be for a middle IF. The Tigers may lose a pitcher in order to unload Javier Baez as the Mariners lost Edwin Diaz to unload Robinson Cano.
Aren’t you the crow expert? Smh
The Reds would only be looking for prospects to immediately flip. They need MLB pitching, not guys in AA
The Reds don’t want prospects. It’s more likely they would package India with lower level prospects for a controllable TOR SP
Who the heck is trading a controllable top of the rotation arm for India???
No one. The Bader-Montgomery trade last year is pretty much the only one I remember like that and Montgomery at the time was a 4/5.
And India is a nice player, I’m sure teams would love him and his production. It’s more just MLB writers have to write something a few weeks before the deadline to take up space.
India is not even a league average player. Below average OPS+, DRS, and OAA. He is not good with the bat or glove. The Reds would have to include someone of real value to get a TOR starter. Marte? CES?
Well maybe they get a rental. But they aren’t getting a guy with years of team control left.
I hope the Reds make an effort to get better at the deadline. The division is up for grabs and once you get in you never know what can happen.
To be fair, that’s after he had a batting dip for about 20 games, his OPS dropped below 100 – most of the season he’s been in the 115 range.
India is also tied with Yelich for 11th in MLB in runs scored, and tied for his team HR lead with Jake Fraley. As I said earlier, nice player, but agreed no one is giving up a top starter for him at this point but mostly because you can count on one hand the teams shopping top 3 starters.
Marte and CES are untouchable in one of these teades.
I don’t think the Reds would ask for prospects. They want major-league pitchers.
India for Giolito.
Not good enough for the Reds. India wouldn’t be moved for a rental.
Agreed 100%
Hopefully we are not this inept.
Hmm. Makes sense, but still kinda shocking.
Yeah, because the awesome season India has had at the plate has nothing to do with their success, so they can just trade him and it’ll be the same. Stupid. I get the young talent, but he’s practically the Vet presence on this team for the young guys, besides Votto, and they can’t just rely on the young guys.
“Awesome”
What awesome season? India has a 98 OPS+ and 1.1 WAR in 382 ABs. The Reds need pitching and there are plenty of infield options between the big league team and the minors.
It’s not all about stats, it’s when they come. He has come through at a lot of key times.
He is also the inspirational leader of the club. This will turn out like dealing Perez.
How do you know that he’s the “inspirational leader”? Seriously question as I’m not a Reds fan.
Interviews from teammates call India the “captain of Americas team”
You can just see the way his teammates react to him and how he reacts to them when they do something great. He is the first one out of the dugout to congratulate someone. That is something that is hard to replace on a young team.
It’s not an exact comp, but picture the Yankees trading Jeter when they got A-Rod. Jeter was good, but not as good as A-Rod. But the Yankees recognized what moving him off short would do to their team. Of course in hindsight, the Yankees only won title in the 20+ years after the A-Rod trade, so maybe it would have been a good idea to trade Jeter instead of moving A-Rod to third.
@hiflew- I wish the Yankees never traded for ARoid, and just kept Soriano. Like you said only 1 chip in 2009. Keeping Jeter at shortstop and in general was ALWAYS the right move.
I know A Rod wasn’t the most popular Yankee, but surely you can’t be serious. A Rod won 2 MVPs and finished in the top 15 in MVP 5 other times in the first seven years after the trade. Soriano finished in the MVP top 15 only twice
@hiflew- Yes, he will never ever be the most popular Yankee! You see his # retired in monument park? That’s right you’ll never see it. Who cheated more then that guy? Soriano was a clean player, and no telling what he would of done if he was never traded away from the Yankees. ARoid cheated for years never forget that. No Hall Of Fame, either.
Comparing India and Jeter? Geeez….
Absolutely not.
Well Soriano got the No Hall of Fame the natural way. No pill made A-Rod as good as he was. PEDs did not make him a great player, he was just a great player that took PEDs. I understand the disdain for him, but to be honest I wish he was on my team in his prime. A Rod hitting bombs in Coors Field would have been a sight to behold.
Yeah with all the steroids A-Roid took he probably would of hit 75-80 home runs in one season at Coors Field for sure. Lol. Nice talk.
It figures it would be you with your hyperbole of words. Comparing trading India who had 1 good season out of 2 1/2 who is replaceable. Whose defense is negative. You compare that to over 10 years of Tony Perez and his 4 WS appearances. About 5 AS teams and consistent actual production. They need pitching. Either him or Stephenson along with other minor leaguers not named Marte or Connor Phillips are what you use to get it. Quit overrating his leadership.
You are completely nuckin futs,..and I don’t say that to many people.
Add to that the fact that when it matters most with RISP he has been even worse than his below average performance on the season. Just 3 XBH and a 50 OPS+
98 OPS+ is not awesome. Its not even average. Add bad defense and trading India is addition by subtraction in terms of on the field production. It may play differently in the clubhouse, but it won’t hurt on the field.
Note: no one is giving high end pitching prospects for Dan Uggla Jr.
Do you think that is an insult? Dan Uggla had a really nice MLB career.
Not an insult brother, just facts. Power hitting second baseman with no glove and very little ability to play other positions. No one is giving up top tier pitching prospects for that.
The Rays make a lot of sense if they intend to trade Brandon Lowe. Which would make sense for them. You get two extra years of control with India.
The White Sox also could be in play here. Perhaps in a package deal for one of their starters.
Oh boy, hiflew—can you imagine India’s thoughts if he went from the Reds to the White Sox? He has been on bad teams his entire career and as soon as there is a glimmer of hope he would go to a worse situation.
Not sure there is a match with the Sox—says they want young, controllable pitching—that eliminates Lynn, Clevinger and Giolito. No sure they would really want the couple years of Kopech and India would have to bring others along to pry Cease.
And the Sox don’t have anyone in the minors to spruce up the deal.
But—India would fill the multi year black hole called second base for the Sox.
In a way, it would be an improvement over being benched in Cincy. The Reds are a year or two ahead of schedule, so moving to the White Sox would really be more of a lateral move. I don’t the White So are going to do a complete teardown. They still have a decent amount of good players to build around.
hiflew–please list the “decent amount….good players” you are referring to. If decent is a countable number fewer than three….then I am with you.
They just tried to build around what they thought were six or seven decent players and it has turned into a disaster.
Honestly I don’t know. Cease, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn would be a guess. But the White Sox are probably in my bottom 5 of teams I actually follow. I know very little about them on a day to day basis.
All I know is it hasn’t been that long since they had a complete teardown and they are in a weak division, so it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to tear it all down again.
hiflew;
The Rays are looking for pitching.
They’re not looking to trade it.
The rays have a ton of 2B prospects to take Lowe’s job.
Caminero, Aranda, & Mead should be enough to fill in there. Brujan looks more like a busted prospect these days but he’s an option too. They don’t have spare pitching prospects to go out and get India. Doesn’t make any sense to me.
They do, but they need help NOW, with how dormant their bats have been for the last 30 days. India would be an immediate improvement, IMO, over all of them.. Not a great improvement, though.
Rays REALLY need to get Franco, Arozarena and Margot going or they could end up in the 2nd or 3rd WC spot. B. Lowe is a lost cause. He’s not even running into a HR very often with all his whiffs.
Totally get what you are saying, but bad comp. Uggla had a solid career.
> Dan Uggla had a really nice MLB career.
> Uggla had a solid career.
And then the Braves traded for him
And then extended him for 5yrs/$62 billion
And then without knowing what he might do in Atlanta
And then he slowly turned into a pumpkin
And then no more “and then”
Hemlock: $5 Billion? I’ll be that blew the doors off the salary “cap.” 😉
Apparently not, because
And then they signed BJ “crap standing” Upton
He got old before his time for sure, but that’s the gamble you take when you give a 5 year deal to a 31 year old guy.
Plus India is only 26, so the comp just doesn’t work. If whatever team that trades for him gets the same production as Dan Uggla from 26-30, they should be THRILLED.
Uggla had 3 pretty good seasons before tailing off in ATL. He had his highest HR season as well as led MLB in walks another season. I can’t remember if he got hurt at all that 4th season or age just started getting to him. But for the first few seasons he did rather well with ATL
> But for the first few seasons
> he did rather well with ATL
OPS+ for Daniel Ughla during his 4-year term in Atlanta: 107, 98, 85, 35
I don’t see “rather well” in there
Barring a few seasons in FLA 107 was pretty typical season for Uggla. Yes it started to tail from there but he was still quite productive for a 2B. I myself was surprised seeing his #s I thought he had played much worse in ATL. Regardless they gave up Infante and Mike Dunn so I’d say they won that trade.
107 and 98 for a second baseman aren’t really that bad. Not All Star level, but not exactly bench worthy either.
Sure, he was 1.6 and 2.9 bWAR his first two years in ATL. I am biased—he or BJ Upton were easily my two least favorite Braves.
I understand completely. It’s always easy to forget that a player was not always as bad as the end of their tenure. Especially when that end is so spectacularly awful.
Uggla had only one particularly awful partial season in ATL. They cut bait rather quickly and avoiding the bulk of his collapse. I agree with Hemlock here tho, I could see why he was one of his least favorites. He could b quite frustrating to watch at times.
More like spot on comparison, solid hit, above average power for the position and limited glove. India will have a nice solid career too, not worthy of a top flight pitching prospect.
The Seattle Mariners need a 2B. The Mariners have a lot of young, talented, and controllable pitching, and these two teams do certainly seem to like to trade with one another.
Woo straight up for India? Something along those lines? Maybe give them another mid tier piece since India has the track record of success?
Woo is likely off-limits for two reasons.
One, he’s likely firmly in Seattle’s 2024 rotation as their number 4 starter.
Two, he’s likely going to get shut down before the postseason. He’s already blown past his 2022 IPs and this is his first full season following TJS in April, 2021.
But he’s far more valuable than India, anyway.
Good points Stevil. I do think we have a surplus of good young talent at that particular position and I am sure some consolidation is coming, in an attempt to lift up the offense.
At least, I hope so!!
I wonder if we might be more likely to see Brash moved. As a high-leverage reliever who can make batters look silly, and with 5 more years of control, his value must be significant. Relief pitching a bigger strength, because they’ve proven they can find & fix them somewhat easily.
I could see Brash going to a contender for a legit infield prospect in the upper-minors. Otherwise, someone like Jonathan Aranda would make a lot more sense for Seattle in a more humble swap.
Stevil….take it for what it’s worth but I was ecstatic last Thursday when I heard Dipoto say they are planning to have Woo finish this 2023 season with SEA. They may have a 6 man rotation at some point or try to shuffle the order to give him the odd extra days rest. He wont be “shut down” this year.
There’s no guarantee the Reds trade J India just because this article says the Reds are willing to trade him! Besides the Mariners ownership have not exactly gone “all-in” on adding to the lineup over the last two off-seasons!! Its been bargain bin shopping. I seriously hope I’m wrong
Re: who we should trade if we do actually pursue him. That obviously depends on the market. We would clearly have to ‘outbid’ the numerous contenders like the LAD who could be looking for upgrades at that position. That Dodgers farm system is pretty stacked. Baseball America just ranked them #3 system. I hope we don’t part with Woo or B Miller but India has 3.3 seasons of control so his price will be pretty steep. The market might demand a young SP already in MLB like one of them. Saying that I wonder if the M’s would be willing to move Robbie Ray in a package? The Reds can afford that contract and Castillo Kirby Gilbert Woo and Miller is a SOLID rotation. A trade with RR will certainly improve our financial flexibility to help us acquire an established MLB hitter. I really hope we can improve this lineup…..
daaaaang..that would be a brash move for sure!
There is no such thing as a FIRM #4 starter. Especially when you are referring to next season. There are always changes that can be made between now and then.
I didn’t hear Dipoto say they intended to keep Woo on the roster. I think it was Divish who said they intended to shut him down at some point. Maybe they’re not seeing the signs of fatigue they were anticipating, or like you suggested, might slow things down and have a 6-man rotation? If they’re out of contention, I don’t think a 6-man rotation would be a bad idea (nor would be shutting him down).
I’m personally not that high on India. I don’t think he fits Seattle very well. I like Aranda a lot better as a 2024 option. And I don’t think the Reds are bent on trading India, but I would note that they’ve identified themselves as buyers. The teams willing to trade arms have the leverage.
I’d like to see Seattle sell high on Miller if possible. But they’re certainly not obliged to do anything, either.
Brilliant, hiflew.
There’s a reason i used the word ‘likely’.
Stevil- ..Johnathan India is certainly not peak Robinson Cano haha but I look around the league and I don’t see many elite 2B who are considered ‘superstar’ or “impact bats. I’m pretty sure you have an MLB Fantasy team – if you do, you know full well how many true 2B are elite players. When I think about Seattle’s years of failure to find a good bat at 2B since Robbie left – Johnathan India is a clear upgrade on Wong, Frazier and Shed Long.
If the M’s want him to play 2B they will have to pay what the Market demands. With that being said and with the knowledge that the a team with a farm system like the Dodgers I could see many folks thinking SEA has to “overpay” to get J India. We’ll see what the market decides….
RIGHT NOW, India is a legit commodity; that’s why potential trades about him are being discussed. I think his perceived value is rightfully controversial based on the extreme highs and lows we’ve seen from him.
But we’re talking about a 26 year old first round pick and rookie of the year who plays (albeit, not very well in comparison to some others) a position that is sparse. Acquiring him without touching the major league roster, in my opinion would instantly improve the major league roster.
How much? Hard to say, right? You could argue that he has untapped potential; you could argue that his rookie year was a fluke and he’s just more of a low end everyday player than a potential star. Man, I’d sure take a low end, everyday player at 2nd right now, lol
Right now, India is a below average MLB player and has been in 2022 and 2023. The reason he is available in trade is because he has little value on the field for the Reds who are in contention.
As a below average player, he is not improving many teams. As many Reds fans are saying, the commodity they need most is MLB starting pitching. That means taking from the MLB roster to acquire India. Also means that the Reds would have to add someone of actual value to the trade if they are looking for more than a back of the rotation starter or a rental.
I do not have a fantasy team. In fact, I can’t take that stuff seriously at all. No offense to anyone who enjoys it, it’s just not for me.
There aren’t likely any truly elite second basemen available, but they don’t absolutely have to have a star at the keystone. They lack stars, but they might have better luck finding on for the outfield.
I like Aranda because he’s shown good discipline with breaking and off-speed stuff. He’ll probably hit. His defense is the real question, but I have every confidence in Perry Hill being able to shape him into a respectable fielder.
India would be an upgrade. But I do think his road numbers shouldn’t be ignored and the years of control are his arbitration-eligible years, though 2024 isn’t going to be too high.
Honestly, the players that interest me the most are prospects that are a good two years out. Another thing I like about Aranda is that they could potentially move him to first, or simply rotate him around in the future.
Seattle shouldn’t have to overpay if they deal from their pitching. It’s the other way around. Again, Seattle’s not really in contention. Teams like Cincinnati, are. Seattle has the leverage dealing with contenders.
They should, anyway!
I went and listened to the audio. Dipoto did mention the possibility of going with a 6-man rotation and utilizing off-days to get extra rest for the younger starters. He stressed the importance have getting them accustomed to the 6-month seasons, even if they’re not using him.
It didn’t sound like he would be used in the postseason, if they were somehow able to sneak in, but they wouldn’t likely need him at that point anyway.
The bigger point is that he wouldn’t likely be able to help another team, either.
Another second baseman I like that I think fits better is Nick Madrigal. He’s one of the best contact hitters in the game. That’s been a weakness of Seattle’s that doesn’t get discussed much.
“who straight up for india”? I’m asking YOU! who can you give up for India? We need to know the guys name!
It’s not as robust at the moment as it was, because Marco is likely out for the rest of the Season and Woo is going to get shut-down before too long. He will presumably (my guess) be replaced with Hancock, who is currently in AA.
I think they should be open to trading Miller, but Miller would come with 3 more years of control than India, so there would be an issue of value. Seattle may prefer to hang on to him, or sell high, rather than somewhat of a lateral move.
The Reds are not trading for the Mariners 2nd or 3rd tier prospects which is what they have left on the farm at this point. If the Mariners want India be prepared to give up Gilbert or Woo.
I never suggested they would give up second or third tier prospects.
But if you think India is worth Gilbert or Woo, you’re mistaken.
Then the Mariners have nothing to offer. The best prospect the Mariners have now is a walking IL stint after that it falls off significantly.
Whatever man. Have a good evening.
India is a below average player. Let me repeat that, a BELOW average player. The Reds are not getting any starting pitcher unless they are a rental or a back of the rotation starter.
So 100% NOT Gilbert or Woo.
The Mariners have nothing the Reds want then. Nothing in the Mariners system currently is worth anything the Reds have to offer. Also not every team has an owner that can pay for an All star team that extremely underperforms.
India isn’t worth anyone of real value, so its a fit.
That you are trying to spin to Padres ownership says even you know you are completely wrong.
The Mariners don’t have a single thing in there system worth India. If they want an upgrade over Wong they have to pay for it.
Let me repeat this because it doesn’t seem to be getting through. India is not worth anything of value. He is a below average player.
Wong is not the issue. The issue is your lack of understanding that India has no value in trade. He is a below league average hitter and a bad defensive player. He doesn’t bring anything to the table.
So the Mariners or any other team that trades for him will not have to “pay for it”.
Reality is if the Reds want to get anything of value back, they are going to have to add a prospect or prospects to the deal.
I’m so glad I have you that knows more than the experts that say the opposite of you.
India must feel great reading in the media team wants to trade him.
Wonder how well this goes in the clubhouse
Trades are a part of the business. He should understand and take it as professionally as he can. Given that other teams are going to approach him as an average 2B, I wouldn’t espect a large return. Maybe a rental and a further away prospect. Schoop is available, and while his bat is questionable, his glove is one of the best. He doesn’t cost anything in trade.
Cmon Scoop has a 56 wRC+ over the last like 800 PA, dude is done. India is under control through 2026 and still has upside similar to his rookie season
Yeah schoop is about done as a big leaguer. There’s glove only guys sitting in the minors around the league. You need to provide some type of offensive at 2B.
This is a little surprising since he’s one of few veterans on the team and has been instrumental to their success, but he would probably get moved in the offseason anyway, so if they can get an arm and contend….
“Reds willing to trade clubhouse leader that has contributed to surprising team success and screw with team chemistry” would be a good alternate headline.
I still want to know if he’s traded to Cleveland, would he have to become Jonathan Guardia?
Yankees: Send: Domingo German, Wandy Peralta, Prospect (for) India
Mariners: Send: Bryan Woo (for) India, Prospect
Marlins: Send: Edward Cabrera (for) India, Prospect
Reds aren’t touching German. They took a horrible package to get chapman out of town.
The Marlins have arguably one of the better 2B in the league. Why would they trade for him?
@hiflew They need infield help. They would just move him to 3rd or 1st.
If that is the case, then why not just trade for a 3rd baseman or a 1st baseman that would likely cost less in trade assets?
woo is worth so much more than india
Woo can’t even pitch 5 innings in what world is he worth more than India. He’s likely a reliever in 2 years.
@Stevie, that world would b Earth. Controllable young pitching is immensely valuable in today’s game. The reigning AL batting champion was traded for Pablo Lopez who had fewer years of control.
The one plus here for Reds is 2B FA market has been abysmal so India has more value than he’d usually have. Him or Senzel are going to b moved, I think they re entertaining idea of India now cus they ve heard some offers for Senzel and were seriously underwhelmed.
Not sure where people get this from. Woo ain’t that valuable.
*From watching, paying attention and understanding how he compares.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/bryan-woo-693…
Would love to see him come to the Giants
For what? And what happens when Thairo comes back?
I like India but he’s not the best fit for Giants unless he can play SS.
Also, Giants would have to give up someone like Keaton Winn, no thanks.
India can play 2B and 3B but not SS. Would likely need to add a third team to make this work.
How’s Schmitt hitting again? Villar? Davis? Where exactly is Estrada again? Howd our series in Washington go anyway? Yeah I guess you’re right it would sure suck to have some middle infield offense right now. Get outta here bozo.
Also whatever prospect capital he costs isn’t my problem it’s the FOs problem. Winn isn’t helping the major league club right now and while I’d love to see him up instead of stripling or desclafani he’s not up for a reason and we need wins now. Winn is far from a guaranteed major league starter at this point.
“Bozo” is BS. All the dude did was disagree with your opinion. Not an insult aimed at anyone, anywhere. Get over yourself.
Agree, Dave. The guy seems like a good get, but the priority seems to be a shortstop capable someone.
@Uggla, he won’t b moved for prospect capital. Any trades they make they ll b seeking immediate MLB level talent.
I think Winn and Beck fit that bill tbh. Bart is still in AAA hitting well, the Reds rolling three catchers might be more of a problem for them than a benefit and he could potentially help them out.
Beck hasn’t started a game in MLB yet and Winn has 2 MLB starts in his career. I don’t know if many teams would waste a roster spot in Bart at this point much less give up anything of value for him.
In order for Reds to move India it will take tried and true MLB players, they re looking to make some noise at this point not rebuild.
We’ve seen them both pitch well in MLB this season and by no means am I attempting to overvalue the giants prospects god knows that hasn’t planned out until seemingly recently and I never said Winn or Beck could get that deal done I just think it’s a conversation the Giants need to have with the Reds and maybe one of those guys is a piece that can get a deal done. I don’t doubt that it simply isn’t going to happen but I would hope they try their best to see if they can make a deal.
In the midst of another sparkling performance in Detroit as we speak. That playoff record hanging in the balance.
If it were in the offseason I’d agree it might intrigue Reds. But to move India a team leader at the deadline while they have an eye on playoffs I think it would take a more MLB proven starter. The trade u r proposing is more of a trade for a team that is sellers. Reds are buyers and moving India would b doing so for immediate addition by subtraction
India isn’t a “tried and true MLB player”. He is a below average player. Below league average offense and plain old bad defense.
Well he is proven capable of being worthy of a MLB roster spit, which most prospects have not. So yes he is a “tried and true MLB player”. Now had I said a tried and true MLB star that would b a different story.
Tried and true proven below average. Not worth anything of value in trade. Glad we agree on the fact that India alone will not bring back anyone that can help the Reds win.
He would bring back more that Senzel would for a team needing a 2B. And with hiw abysmal 2B has been in free agency he carries more value than he’d usually.
Hey Dodgers don’t worry the Mets can help you with SP and OF , leave Betts at 2b , we’ll trade you Scherzer and Canha or Marte for Bobby Miller and gamble on Dustin May ?
Lol Scherzer isn’t worth anywhere close to Bobby Miller at this point.
They would have to pay all of sherzer contract this year and next year because he will opt in. Even then he isn’t worth much.
Prob for the reds is a good controlled starte is worth more than India. I like India as a player but his value is more in the what can he be than what he currently is. So I seriously doubt they get that return. If they are willing to trade him for a good rental then I could see it.
India has more value than you’d think. The 2B market has been brutally thin and will b again this offseason after options exercised.
I understand Reds fans reluctance to see him go, but 2B’s are quite valuable at the moment. And ideally Senzel would b the one to go, but I don’t see him bringing in anything of significance like India.
That said I think Reds only move India for an exorbitant package.
It’s all relative to how good this controllable starter is. Sure he can get you Ryan weathers but he isn’t getting a stud.
I’d think if they re willing to move India it would b a package deal. They d one at least a #3 starter. I don’t really think they intend on trading him either. But it is a wise move to dangle him and evaluate interest.
The Reds want to trade a former 1st round pick who’s ascending…. Only the reds smh
How is it that you figure Jonathan India is ascending?
Yeah, he’s only ascending when the team plane takes off. 😉
Weird how the “ascending” player had his best season as a rookie and has been sub-par in the subsequent 2 years. <100 OPS+ both seasons with bad defense
Steer isn’t playing 2B. it’s McLain at 2B and EDLC at SS
Why do non Reds fans make hot takes like this without facts. That are clearly pointed out in the article above?
And they are not trading CES either. This guy is a perfect fit for that ball park. Easy power already. Without trying to just hit home runs.
Ascending? What are you smoking?
Could try to work out some sort of trade-and-extend deal to swap India for a pending free agent starter. Like the Reds did a few years back when they got Sonny Gray from the Yankees.
The problem is the teams have no leverage to force an upcoming FA to sign an extension. Most would prefer to test free agent market and leverage teams against each other unless an acquiring team is offering a contract they can’t pass up.
Could be a great move for the Giants, perhaps a return package of Keaton Winn and Carson Seymour?
Makes sense if the Reds think dealing India will fetch a SP in-return.
They are in contention and he is young and under contract for a while. This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
despite his great rookie season, hes actually been below average offensively and defensively the last 2 years.
The free agent market is and has been thin tho. An offer like that could possibly make sense in offseason. But in order for them to trade him now it would have to b for a starter with more experience at MLB level.
Skubal for India straight up sound crazy to you?
Nooooooo! Anyone but Skubal.
OK Matt Manning then.
The reds should jump on that immediately. I think Skubal is going to be really good. You probably aren’t getting a ton this year from him as he’s being eased back in. But I’d definitely accept. That’s probably a fair deal-I just prefer Skubal /
Skubal has the skills to be a Cy Young finalist at his height. Manning had a no-hitter this year but so did Domingo German and I’m not trading the farm for him. Skubal has shown more consistent improvement. It would hurt to part with Manning but as part of a larger package it would make sense.
Why are Tiger fans so eager to trade away good starting pitching for a average slightly above average dh 2b?
This Tigers fan doesn’t want to see Manning, Skubal, or Mize traded especially for India. However if somehow they could package either Lorenzen or ERod with some prospects for Indias, I’d love that. I just don’t see Reds having much interest in any return being decently based off of prospects.
Trade from your strengths to address your weaknesses. Cincinnati, Texas, Tampa, SF et al need starting pitching so the Tigers match up for trades because we 100% need people who can hit the ball.
Tigers are not contending this year. Trading away any of the young stud arms at this point would b rather rash. They re best off seeing the rebuild through at this point and trading away the rentals and possibly Lange.
Next year hopefully A. Meadows will b ready to play and P. Meadows and Malloy see time on big league roster. We have yet to see all these young pitchers healthy together and it should make for a rather interesting rotation. Also adding some of the young promising bats to Tork/Greene/Carpenter along with adding a veteran bat or 2 could make Tigers very interesting. The lineup protection might even help get some semi meaningful production out of Baez. That could b very overly optimistic thinking tho. However lineup protection never hurts.
Tigers still need someone to play 2B or 3B next year, depending where Colt Keith slots in. India can play both and in a larger deal maybe they grab 3B prospect Sal Stewart who has more walks than strikeouts and could slot in down the road. Or go get Justin Foscue from Texas and throw him out there. I think Foscue is the better option long term. Stewart and Foscue are the kind of bats Harris is looking for. Jung will also come into play in that mix eventually. They promoted him to AA so maybe sooner rather than later.
Anybody is available for the right price, but what team lines up for an India trade? He’s a so-so second baseman who’s not going to be in huge demand. I don’t see the Reds getting much pitching in return, so my guess is that India goes nowhere at the deadline. Bell will just have to juggle a crowded infield.
Now if the Reds made McLain available…but that’s not going to happen. I’m starting to think that McLain, not the “alphabet guys,” is the real gem in the Reds infield.
India for Kopech? thoughts?
If I were running the Reds (scary thought) I would jump at that deal. But I think the White Sox would want more than India for Kopech. India’s stock has really declined since the RoY season.
The poor mans Lopez Arraez trade.
Quite a few teams lineup well for India. 2B market has been horrible and looks to continue to b so for foreseeable future. That is why M’s tried to sign Turner to play 2B only to b stuck plugging hole with Wong. It is also why Rangers were brilliant to have the foresight to think ahead and sign Seager/Semien before the 2B crunch really set in.
India in a normal year would b much more valuable to the Reds due to his leadership and team depth opposed to his trade value. Supply and demand tho has boosted his value quite a bit at this time.
I’d say they d b better suited grabbing a Donovan Solano, Adam Frazier, Tony Kemp, Brad Miller, etc… Perfect world they splurge on Merrifield. Brian Anderson, IKF, Gio, etc would all b fine at 3B.
I just think they d b best suited plugging the holes and adding a few vet bats for the OF and to rotate in DH spot. Especially opposed to giving up any of the young promising pitchers.
Tigers on speed dial! Package deal for Erod and/or Lorenzen plus some of their younger pitching prospects (Wilmer Flores, Brant Hurter) or bullpen pieces for the future too. Cincy gets pitching for the playoff push this year plus more for next year and beyond. India and Sal Stewart going back the other way. Tigers get a good player for now at a podition if need and Stewart could slot in two years from now. Stewart was mentioned as a trade candidate in a package for Lorenzen recently on another site plus another prospect in the 21-30 range so that’s where the name comes from. Love his walk to K ratio and ge is the kind of guy the Tigers GM Scott Harris is looking for. Pitching is going to cost this year.
The Reds are not giving up India and a top 6 prospect for 2 rentals. That’s a massive over pay.
Pretty sure that is not what I said.
India and Stewart for a rental and 2 projected BP arms is still an over pay for the Reds.
India or another young infielder to Tigers for pitching rental.
A rental won’t get one of those young infielders
According to mlb.com it could (Sal Stewart).
That’s not happening
Keep India in Cincinnati.
Straight up for Michael Kopech from the White Sox, White Sox needs a 2B, Kopech had two years on his affordable contract.
day #2 of the same joke. not too serious an infraction
love the kopech idea
Woo for India, with a tweak or two, makes sense. The two teams already have each other on speed dial. For those M’s fans who say Woo is too much; nah his projection is solid 3-4 guy. Kirby & Gilbert would be an overpay as both look like very strong 2/3 starters.
No, it doesn’t.
Woo is far, far more valuable, and India’s road splits are going to concern any team in a pitcher-friendly stadium.
I don’t think you realize how valuable a solid mid-rotation starter (pre-arb), is.
I agree sir. Woo has strong K:BB ratio in the majors. Woo can be a #3. SP with 10k/inn ratios are so valuable in this day and age. He’s had some buzz saw of opponents so that’s why his ERA looks high. Kirby is already a #2 and Gilbert is not that far behind that. GILLY would he a number 2 on 90 % of teams. India for taylor Dollard straight up. I have Dollard ranked #10 on M’s prospects
Woo got lit in his MLB debut and again in his last start, which was the night baseballs were sent into orbit across the league. He has been excellent apart from those two starts. I don’t think Woo is going anywhere.
Dollard is out for a good year. He had surgery. He doesn’t have real value right now, so Seattle will probably hang on to him. That said, India would cost more than a healthy Dollard. A lot more.
Seattle’s approach to 2B should probably be similar to their approach with relievers. Find a guy who can hit, but struggles on the dirt, and let Perry Hill work with him just as they’ve worked with relievers in need of help with a specific pitch and/or command.
Nothing on the Mariners current system is getting India especially 2nd tier starters.
A solid 3-4 with more years of control is worth a lot more than India.
They’ve been trying to trade India since they drafted him. Nobody has been interested. He’s definitely the odd man out and they can’t dish one of these hot prospects now or it would kill the rebuild.
Hope for their sake that they get a decent arm back.
Yankees get: India
Reds get: Torres, Severino, Holmes, and Volpe (the next Derek Jeter with his .200 batting average)
1st Yankees fan trade I ever seen that the other team would accept. And gladly.
You realize Volpe is Gary Sanchez 2.0?
Reds don’t need any more middle infielders. That’s why they speculate they will trade one.
I was expecting to see India moved in the offseason, with the 2024 IF showing CES, McLain, EDLC and Marte. Votto, Newman and Senzel also gone between now and the offseason. Steer moving to UT/DH.
Giolito, Kopech, Sosa, Matthew Thompson or Jared Kelley for India, Chase Petty and Carlos Sanchez.
The Reds aren’t giving up India and a top 5 prospect for rentals
Lucas is the only rental dude
Still a massive overpay for the Reds
I’d keep an eye on Detroit. They are pretty deep on the young pitchers in the minors so trading Skubal and Rodriguez for India and a mid tier prospect might work. Maybe do future considerations incase Rodriguez opts in and get a top 5-8 prospect instead of 10-15.. but this is Scott Harris we’re talking about not Al Avila who was horrible at making trades. I would hate to see Skubal go but to get a talent like India you need to make that trade if of course Cincy likes him as much as everyone else.
Sounds like a awful trade for DET.
Skubal is too much. I wouldn’t trade him for the haul Cincy got from Minnesota last year. Someone suggested Manning which would still hurt but he hasn’t been as consistent as Skubal. Erod or Lorenzen and Manning for India, Sal Stewart and a lower level 21-30 prospect?
motor…mmmmmm…The Twins. So good to us. a perfect storm of that trade, and 5 or 6 top rookies…the circle will be complete by next week!
If you want good pitching, you have to give up some good hitting and a youngster like India might bring back something better than some of the obvious ones they can trade out like Senzel.
Would take a really stupid gm to give up any kind of good young pitching for India. I wouldn’t give up a good prospect for him.
If the Reds are entertaining the thought of dealing Indy, then they must think they have no possible chance of making the postseason. Trade him, and all of their youthful enthusiasm goes with him. Here’s an idea. Why not keep him, and bring up Connor Philips from Louisville.. the kids having a great season. Then trade Indy over the Winter..
How about Kutter Crawford for India? Red Sox need a RH bat and a middle infielder.
D’India could net the Reds another Williamson type pitcher but name a contender that has one of those they can deal? I don’t know if the Astros and Dodgers would be willing to trade a Brown or Miller respectively. I don’t see the match up.
It is funny because when they were talking about bringing up their prospects in early June I said D’India seemed like the prime trade chip. Two Reds fans went off on me stating there was no way the Reds would consider moving him. OOPS!!!!!
Woo and Sewald for India
That’s too much for just India. How about adding in Robbie Ray to unload his contract, with some cash to balance it out.
I would hold on to him, quality, controllable and cheap middle infielders don’t present themselves every day. Especially the way the Reds are contending at the moment.
Finding a match in this will be difficult because most contenders don’t have controllable starting pitching to trade for an IF. India to the A’s for Paul Blackburn and Trevor May? I don’t know…
“He’s terrible, you can have him… wait, no. He’s good you cannot have him…. Wait wait he is terrible again so you can have him” – the mind of Nick Krall
tigers better get in on this. erod and Lorenzen could be used to aquire him.
If I was the Tigers I’d pay up as much as possible if not all of Eduardo Rodriguez’s contract to get the Reds to throw in a High A or two lottery ticket.
The reds had lorenzen forever and were very hesitant to use him in the rotation. Crazier things have happened but has Nick Krall changed his view on him that much?
I don’t know seems unlikely that he’s targeted by Cincy to me. Don’t think Cincy would be wise to cash in big chips on a rental at this point either.
Mlb.com suggests a prospect in the 6-10 range (Sal Stewart) AND one in the 21-30 range for Lorenzen. Pretty sure the Tigers will make out fairly well trading both and not for lottery tickets.
That’s not bad at all. Tigers should at least consider the move.
You are going to be very disappointed when you don’t get a top 10 prospect for your rentals.
Like we were disappointed when they shipped Joe Jimenez to Atl for top ten prospect Justyn Henry Malloy? Pitching doesn’t come cheap. Prosoects are not plated in gold and can fail or fizzle. Nick Senzel ring a bell?
If that’s Detroits price they can watch Lorenson and Erod walk for nothing.
Or just trade with another pitching needy team not named Cincinnati! Someone will pony up.
I would like to call on India to change his name to Guardian.
The Dodgers are their perfect trade partner for India.
Now that’s funny.
Giolito and maybe a player or two sounds fair, Gio and Lynn? Sox need a 2B really bad.
The article didn’t really cover his defense adequately. He is a pretty weak defender. He needs to be more than a league average hitter to make up for that. For that reason, no team is going to give much more than an innings eater or a middle reliever for him. He is evidently a team leader and useful as a DH or bench strength so it would be better to keep him. Chemistry and leadership, particularly on a young team, do actually matter.