The Red Sox have a 41-42 record and are 4.5 games out of a wild card berth as the calendar flips to July, so it remains to be seen whether or not the team is truly a contender for the postseason. In the opinion of Sox team president/CEO Sam Kennedy, “we definitely believe that this group can string a run together and get us back in this thing,” but Kennedy admitted to MassLive.com’s Sean McAdam that “this is obviously not where we want to be. It’s sort of been a tale of two teams, given the streaky nature of our play….Every time we have a great stretch we seem to then falter and fall down.”
With this in mind, Kennedy said that Boston’s first order of business is just to play some consistent baseball, before considering any next steps. “No one’s thinking about the trade deadline right now. We’re just thinking about trying to put ourselves in a position where we’re looking to add to this team,” he said.
Kennedy’s comments are similar to those made by chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom earlier this week, and Kennedy reiterated that upper management has “no concern” over Bloom’s ability to improve the roster, and that Bloom “will have full authority to do what is in the best interest of the organization, short-term and long-term.”
Bloom’s future with the Red Sox has been a topic of some controversy given the team’s relative lack of results over his three-plus seasons in charge of the front office, and the potential end of his contract. According to McAdam, Bloom’s deal is thought to last through at least the 2024 season, which would indicate that Bloom received a five-year contract when he was initially hired by the Sox after the 2019 campaign (unless Bloom has since signed an extension). The Red Sox are 235-232 during Bloom’s tenure, with a trip to the ALCS in 2021 sandwiched between last-place finishes in 2020 and 2022. The Sox are currently in last place again in the AL East, though with the caveat that the club plays in baseball’s hardest division.
Money is apparently not an issue for ownership, as Kennedy stated that “if we’re in position to add to this team as we approach the deadline, there won’t be any hesitation or reservation about” spending beyond the luxury tax line. As per Roster Resource, Boston’s luxury tax number is just shy of $221.3MM, and thus under the $233MM Competitive Balance Tax threshold. Of course, while Kennedy didn’t address this possibility, one would imagine that the Sox might look to stay under the threshold if they do indeed fall out of contention over the next few weeks, given how Bloom’s attempts to both buy and sell at last year’s deadline resulted in a roster that finished with both a losing record and a tax bill.
August 1 is not just deadline day, but also the first day that Chris Sale would be eligible to be activated from the 60-day injured list. Initially played on the 15-day IL on June 2 with right shoulder inflammation, it was soon announced that Sale was suffering from a stress reaction in his shoulder blade, and was facing yet another lengthy IL stint.
The good news is that Sale has been cleared to start throwing, after undergoing another MRI on Thursday. The plan is for Sale to throw every other day for the time being, with the southpaw throwing from 60 feet but not at max effort. Beyond these first steps, Sale’s timeline is still largely undetermined.
“This isn’t a very common issue,” Sale told The Athletic’s Jen McCaffrey and other reporters. “We had a couple guys who were reference points from the past, but again how many times am I going to stand up here and say something freak happened? So obviously, could have been worse, and [I’ve] been through worse. Just happy for today to be able to start this process and get back to doing what I’m supposed to be doing.”
Red Sox manager Alex Cora also updated reporters (including The Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham) on several other injured players. Yu Chang and Richard Bleier will each start a rehab assignment with Double-A Portland this weekend, while Pablo Reyes’ rehab assignment is slated to begin on Tuesday. John Schreiber has thrown a pair of bullpen sessions and could be nearing a rehab assignment of his own, once he faces hitters during a live batting-practice session.
Zack Kelly also started a throwing program yesterday, which is particularly notable considering that the right-hander underwent an ulnar nerve transposition revision in his right elbow back in early May. There was some optimism at the time that Kelly might be able to return before the end of the season, and while there’s much to be done before this becomes a reality, it’s certainly a good sign that Kelly is already throwing in some limited capacity.
“No one’s thinking about the trade deadline right now.” Sooo, the plan is to just wing it when the deadline comes? Such ridiculous nonsense comes from this awful front office.
or he didn’t want to talk about it
suit – More likely he’s saying it’s too soon, which I agree. A lot can happen over the next 4 weeks.
More players could get injured (likely)
Injured players could return sooner than expected (unlikely)
Main WC competition (Astros, Yanks, Jays, Angels) could go on a tear (likely)
Sox could go 15-7 or better (unlikely, even with 6 against Oakland)
It’s really a shame Sale and Houck got hurt, I’d be a lot more optimistic if they didn’t. Especially with the way Maple has been pitching. He is proving all the people wrong who insisted pitchers should be pulled after two trips through the lineup. His numbers are actually much BETTER as the game goes on. That’s an example of knowing how to really pitch, rather than just hurling the ball as hard as you can.
Fever: Well said and the Sox are very unpredictable this year.
They definitely had a shot, but they are too thin. Bello, Sale, and Paxton are a very good starting three. Houck, Whitlock, and Crawford are pretty inconsistent, as young pitchers are, but they don’t present too much worse than a typical #4.
I’m a bit more pessimistic, and would definitely be in listening mode, but almost every team in baseball can go on an 8-2 streak. An we have a s/t schedule that can afford that, but it gets very late very quickly when 90 wins is the baseline. I’d probably give it to at least the ASB, unless some team goes crazy after Paxton or Jansen. Even JT looks attractive to a team that need corner flexibility.
Oooo it’s top secret now. You’re a fool.
Only fools telegraph their plans. Also, no need to talk about it if you are undecided about buying or selling at the trade deadline.
suit- my point is why say anything at all? It’s just jibber jabber otherwise.
Do you think they’re celebrating Bobby Bonilla Day?
Should’ve been the first article on this board today
“will have full authority to do what is in the best interest of the organization, short-term and long-term.” Kennedy said. The problem with that statement is Bloom doesn’t have the intelligence for the job. Which calls into question this ownerships commitment to winning the world series. Looks like they are only interested in raking in as much cash as possible to fund buying other franchises. The Red Sox right now are also-rans and a joke.
No updates on Mondesi or Story or Houck ….
What do you need to know about Story and Mondesi other than they were awesome signings…
And that mondesi is all but a lock to never suit up for Boston this year? He’s been out of baseball a long time. Building up plus a rehab assignment puts him past the season id think.
Pretty much. I’d like to see a bloom blooper reel after he’s sent packing.
GASox – You’re right of course, I was just wondering if Mondesi at least resumed baseball activities yet.
As for Story, the Sox would be more likely to trade Duvall or Turner if Story will be back as the DH in July or August. I don’t see how they could keep Duvall, Turner, Casas and Duran all on the field if Story is the DH.
I’d think if they played THAT at the MGM event in the offseason thr jeers would be instant cheers whooping and hollering
I will say this though. Depending on cost, I wouldn’t mind seeing mondesi offered a one year extension with a couple team/player option years added on at this point. If the ligament heals up and he still has some speed he’s the ideal mid-late inning PR you can leave in on defense at SS after. Could be double-switch fodder as well in a late inning move. That would limit his innings and maybe limit his injuries.
GASox – I don’t see him in that role. Not enough roster space for that type of player, and at some point next year Mayer will be able to fill the SS/PR role until he solidifies himself in the starting lineup.
I really doubt they’d bring Mayer up if he wasn’t ready to have a full time role as a starter.
snarl – I think it depends on when he gets called up. If he finishes this season really strong in the minors and has a great ST next year, sure he could be the opening day starter and remain full time at SS.
If he needs more seasoning in the minors next year and then gets called up in August, he could be a semi-regular for the remainder of the season.
That’s what they did with Xander, he got called up August 20th and didn’t play in 17 of the team’s 35 games.
So you’d rather have Josh Taylor (8.16 ERA) over Mondesi?
Red Sox traded for a bag of rocks that doesnt play, and gave up a bag of rocks that stinks. I’d take Mondesi’s 0.0 War over Taylor’s -0.5 War.
You guys look at everything so partisan, its ridiculous.
The way mayer is stinking up Portland, he may never see fenway unless he’s in a paid seat.
‘Bloom “will have full authority to do what is in the best interest of the organization, short-term and long-term.”’
So that means bloom can fire himself?
LOL You mean “will fire himself”
They did say had the authority to do, not that he will do…
True. Just wishful thinking on my part I guess.
The best thing Bloom could do for the fanbase is fire himself.
Fenway – Maybe Bloom can slowly lower himself into a vat of molten steel, giving the thumb up as he disappears?
If you never saw T2 then you won’t get the reference. LOL
That first statement alone is essentially throwing a bucket of ice water on the fan base. We’ve seen the moves Bloom makes. If left to his own devices he’ll single handedly wreck this team in less than a month.
If he leaves the young pitching alone everyone else on the roster is expendable.
I don’t want them getting rid of Turner or Verdugo. I think Turner would play an important veteran presence on this roster next year. I think we need to deal Paxton and Duvall. I might also try to acquire a young piece for the future. I would love them to take a chance and acquire Michael Soroka from Atlanta.
Verdugo has 1 extra year of control left. He’s also not worth extending. I’d rather see Ceddane + Duran pairing with Yoshi and spend his money elsewhere.
He’s putting up a good year for trading. You get a better return with him being available next year.
Finish out this year with yoshi/kiki/Duran and refsnyder as your 4th OF.
I’m really concerned with Rafaela’s offense. His swing rate is way too high to play at the big league level. I would trade him now to see what we can get for him. I also would want to see more from Duran to feel confident in his stability.
Taking advantage of verdugo’s higher value makes huge sense. He’s going to be too old to be part of the next core so get what you can for him now because he could very easily fall apart the second half.
GASox – I didn’t realize you were that down on Dugie. Not worth extending at any price?
Yeah he totally botched that fly ball near the RF wall today, but I give him a pass as he still doesn’t seem to be 100% focused after his personal loss.
Let’s hope Yoshida is okay, if he’s put on the IL then Duvall will probably stick around at least a few more weeks. They won’t get much for him now anyway as he’s in one of his patented cold streaks, better to build his value with a hot streak before pulling the trigger.
They could also put Refsnyder in a starting role for the time being
If you look back prior to the recent run where he’s got his hand out, he’s never played hard. It’s Manny-lite attitude without the bashing skills to offset it. I’m concerned 1) will he drop back off to near leave average when he gets paid, making it an overpay, and 2) will that attitude rub off on the other players? With the youth movement coming, guys with the attitude of casas sunbathing and napping before games, and Verdugo coasting along are the wrong culture.
You need a Pedroia dirt-dog mentality that cracks heads for not playing 100%, and, a leader for the clubhouse to take charge ala Papi who brings the attitude.
Cora has no control over the players and should’ve nipped all this in the bud, down to manicured nails and all. But he’s weak and wants to be a friend more than a boss. And there’s nobody in the clubhouse strong enough to step up and end the nonsense.
I honestly wonder if you had THAT then this inconsistent BS we watch this year would iron out. Too much sloppy play and nobody gives a d@mn.
If you look back on his production through the years, he’s been ‘ok’ but replaceable.
I think he will want much much much more money than he is ‘worth’ going forwards. So, yeah… look, if he will take a 5/48 deal, maybe you give it a shot. Might even go 5/60 if you get a team option at 6m on the talent with a 500k buyout.
But I also think he’s worth more as tradebait having a good year with an extra year control than anything else.
And as for those wanting the value of Turner next year? He’s opting out. He only needs to get 1yr/6m on the open market to match what he gets by staying in Boston once you subtract the buyout he receives. There is no second year unless you sign him back on the open market, which, you could still do after trading him and he opts out there.
I was thinking they resign Turner
Fenway – His .484 OPS against RHP leads to a hard no.
Ref should start only when he’s facing a LHP … he’s basically the Reverse Reggie Jefferson (yeah I’m going way back with that reference!).
We would need a platoon vs right handed players. I’m not sure how good Wilyer Abreu is doing in AAA, but he could be an option.
GASox – Yeah Dugie has regressed a bit in maturity and effort as the season has gone on, I see your point there. In all fairness to Cora, he did bench him recently for dogging it.
(Oh geez … I have now defended Abraham, Bloom and Cora all in the same day. WTH is going on here??)
No chance any manager will come down on Casas for his nail painting, especially in such a liberal city as Boston.
As for Turner, I’d be very wary of any contract that goes beyond next season. The dude will be 40 next year, he could lose it at any time.
Um, Dugie won the game tonight. Damn, and what a win it was. They’ve lost way too many games this year that they should’ve won. This one didn’t get away because Dugie fired a strike and it went Wong for the Blue Jays.
We can just start calling you Fever Pitch Joe Brady if you keep it up. I THINK Fever Pitch Acell is already taken.
As per Casas, it’s not the idea that he hasn’t come out of the closet that bothers me, it’s the lack of priorities. From his pregame focus (or lack there of) to what he deems most important via the manicures and all the rest… he should be sent down to AAA to get his priorities in whack.
What was Bichette doing. Wasn’t even close. Wow, I don’t think I’ve chatted so much since Bogaerts left.
He’s finally hitting and you want to send him to AAA?
I’ve wanted him in AAA for months.
, it’s the lack of priorities.
========================
It’s a routine, not a priority. It’s not like having colored fingernails is going to make him miss the game. I think everyone has their own personal routine.
Casas has a .798 OPS since 4/17. How long have you wanted to demote him?
“Red Sox manager Alex Cora also updated reporters (including The Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham) on several other injured players.”
This is one of the worst trends in writing over the past decade or so. If the news isn’t exclusive and breaking from one source, why does every item need to be tagged with one reporter from the 30 who heard the same news? When it says multiple reporters were informed, why not tag all of them? Is the news somehow better or more reliable because this one individual was “included”?
Alex Cora also updated reporters on several OFTEN injured players. There. Fixed it for ya.
Well cora is trying to get MORE out of his players…
Because that’s the guy MLBTR is using as their reference in this article ?
First world problems.
notting – Mark got the info from Abraham’s article, so it’s only right to give him the credit for it.
And that way if the information is wrong, which Abraham has been known to do, then he will be the one to blame. So it’s a CYA as well.
Abraham, like his mentor Keith Law, has a tendency to inject his personal and political narratives into his reporting.
notting – Agreed, Abraham is widely disliked. He’s no Carfardo, and he can’t even hold Gammons’ keyboard.
Red Sox have zero shot at a wild card. They should be trying to trade any major league talent they have. Problem is, they don’t have much. Not sure why we needed this full article about a bad team. East coast bias I guess.
This is false. They definitely have some players with value. Paxton, if healthy, would be one of the best arms available at the deadline. Kike has been terrible but has value as a center fielder to some team probably (most likely as a 4th OF type). Turner would definitely have value. Duvall will also have value as a platoon bat at the minimum. And even though not rentals, Kenley and Chris Martin would fetch a nice return, if they decide to deal them. I just have no faith in Bloom to make the correct decisions. I’ll give him the fact that he seems decent at drafting, but his major league roster decisions are puzzling to say the least. Going into the year without a shortstop has really plagued this team.
Paxton is the only player with high value that Bloom would be willing to trade. Kike has been a net negative for this team in my opinion this year. Duvall has not picked up from where he left off, but if he hits well in the next month could be someone to bring in at least a mediocre package. Kenley would bring back a package, as long as we eat some of his contract. Something I’m not sure Bloom will do. Martin is an asset that I would want to keep for next year. The worst part is if we deal Paxton and Kenley, I don’t have hope Bloom would get a good return for them. The only good trades he’s ever made have been the Diekman trade and the Vazquez trade. None of those were big impact anyways.
Fenway – The Pivetta trade was darn good too.
There, I defended Bloom again …. is everybody watching this time?
That’s right, it was so long ago that I forgot.
If Bloom leaves, will they find confidential scouting reports on their competitors tucked away in his bathroom? Just wondering.
I doubt bloom is big on reading scouting reports. Probably makes the scouts reduce it to numerical grades they feed in the computer. He just takes a readout the AI recommends
Oh, so the codes are tucked away in the bathroom. That’s reassuring.
Gotta wipe with something….
whyhayzee- it’s ok because he waved his magic wand and made them “unclassified” except the ones he likes to show off to his “friends” so they’ll think he’s cool
GASox – Real men use bidets. Hahahaha!
Paxton and “if healthy” is an oxymoron. We know he never has been and never will be. He has about enough value to bring in a a couple of mid to low tier prospects in return.
You do realize with more playoff spots that means more teams going for it at the deadline or at least believing they’re “in it,” right? And what does that do to the market for players? Lessens the supply of available players. So when there is less of a supply what happens? Oh right, the price of goods increases. And what is the most sought after position every deadline? Starting pitching. Paxton will easily be one of the best arms available. He will fetch a solid return lol
What happens if Bloom botches it. He’s done a lot of that during his tenure here in Boston;
All Bloom has done is botch it. Including 2023 he has 3 of 4 years in last place.
He could of had Chapman for next to nothing
Red Sox fans they just told you that winning is not in their plans. That even though Bloom has led the team to last place in 2 of the last 3 years and probably will again this year that they will not be firing him. Same for Cora. So just settle in and get used to last place in Boston for the foreseeable future.
Will do.
This is nonsensical. This complaining surrounding an obviously rebuilding team makes no sense.
snarl- sure it’s obvious, I don’t think anyone denies that. But from ownership down all they talk about is being competitive yet their actions and record say otherwise.
Had they embarked on a LEGITIMATE rebuild fans wouldn’t mind.
But we’ve watched 4 years now of failing to round out the team to be competitive, and failing to maximize return on trades – in some cases both tanking the draft compensation for a QO on guys that should’ve been traded but weren’t.
If in 2020 they said, blow it up, andnsold off the veterans for young players and blue chip prospects, the rebuild would be essentially over
Instead we watch year after year of signing has-beens and never-weres while running bloated payroll that can’t compete.
It’s treading water, and, blowing assets in the process. That’s what fans hate. Be honest with your goals and intentions, and, fans get on board. True ones anyways.
This front office needs to go.
GASox – Agree with you on the front office, but I still maintain the Sox do NOT need to punt on multiple years in a full rebuild.
Yanks did their rebuild in one year, 2016, and have made the playoffs every year since. Sox could have done the same, they don’t need to tank for 4-5 years.
Oh, I agree they COULDVE. Bloom botched it though with how he handled the vets and busted a contending window.
Now you need 2 or 3 years of a competent GM looking at talent and not just trying to sign only reclamation projects or players about to retire
GASox – Bloom definitely has a habit of either overpaying or lowballing most players.
BTW – Today Wacha pitched another gem, 5 innings of 1-run ball against the red hot Reds.
And also today Nate was brilliant as usual, 7 innings of 2-hit shutout ball against the World Champions.
Two players whom Bloom already had, and they wanted to stay, but he deemed them expendable.
Fever – but, we got Kluber, so, that makes up for it…. right?
And, it’s not like we’ve been running out a team of injury plagued vets and youngsters with innings limit concerns…
GASox – Someday Kluber will become the answer to an awesome trivia question.
“Who was the Opening Day starting pitcher for the 2023 Boston Red Sox”.
I bet very few people will ever get the correct answer!
si.com/mlb/red-sox/prospects/red-sox-reportedly-pu…
Apparently, the RS made him a good offer, which he declined. When the market didn’t develop Eovaldi had hoped, he asked the RS for the original offer, but they had already gone in a different direction.
Actually Joe, if you re-read that article, it notes that at the time Eovaldi circled back to the Sox, not only were they still FAR below the CBT limit, but, had made NO moves to shore up the rotation yet.
So, still no rational reason to break off negotiations, which, the article claims is the writers opinion as well.
GASox – Agreed! Only thing I can think of is perhaps Henry gave a hard total payroll limit and Bloom re-allocated part of Nate’s offer to Yoshida, Jansen and Martin because Bloom thought Nate would sign elsewhere for more.
So even when Bloom gets it right (offer to Nate) he negates it doing something stupid like not planning for the possibility Nate would circle back and accept the offer. It’s not like Bloom shifted by signing Senga, deGrom, Rodon, Wacha, etc.
These two quotes, especially referring to “antics”, are quite damning:
“Unfortunately, the more we hear regarding Boston’s antics, the worse it gets.”
“The only issue was that he reportedly took it back for seemingly no reason.”
Fever – good idea, and, nice try to give bloom an out, but I’m not buying.
There’s no way it was an offer near the QO in yearly value, but, at the same time Kluber/Taylor/Brasier would exceed the value, and, all had their salaries locked in after Nate would’ve been reaching out to the Sox again. Ik fact, even Devers extension wasn’t even done or announced yet. Amd you could say they were thinking about extending Devers, but, if THAT was the real reason, they could’ve delayed announcing his extension to shift its first year to the following season and just bumped the signing bonus paid to offset the difference in 2023 salary.
I think it was more of a butt-hurt move by bloom who, just like with Bogey, simply doesn’t understand how to negotiate. He treats free agent negotiations almost like an Arb file and trial, except without the trial. His offers are the be all end all without much negotiation room, amd, if you deny him he takes his ball and goes home.
GASox – I didn’t give Bloom an out, he should have kept that money available in case Nate circled back to it. But instead he chose to pay a premium price for Yoshida, Martin and Jansen.
You think Bloom would have spent the same amount on those three free agents if Nate had accepted his offer right away? I dunno … reducing payroll was a must for Henry, I think Bloom spent as much as he was allowed to spend in the offseason (while leaving room for potential trade deadline acquisitions).
Either way, we both agree he’s a very poor negotiator.
With you 100%
If you had nate, you never would’ve gotten kluber. And we still never really got a good explanation on wacha vs kluber. So, if we speculate, say it was a 12m/yr, maybe 3/36ish deal? By the time you remove kluber it’s a 3m hit. Given both were shipped out with cash considerations, then other players brought in, I have a hard time thinking the ‘hard cap’if there was one wouldntve covered Nate.
GASox – Nate signed for 2 years and $36M guaranteed, compared to Kluber’s 1 year $10M guaranteed. If Nate pitches enough innings, it turns into 3 years and $54M.
I won’t speculate as to how much Bloom offered, but I have to believe it was similar if not more than what the Rangers gave him.
They’re in the toughest division but they’re 14-11 in said division. They were swept by the Cardinals and lost 2 of 3 to the Rockies. Is anyone confident they do better than .500 against Oakland? Weird team, man!
Mango – I’m confident! Oakland is next-level ’62 Mets bad.
But yeah, the “toughest division” doesn’t really matter with 3 WC’s and a more balanced schedule. If the Sox were in the AL West they’d still be the exact same number of games behind a playoff spot as they are now.
Not sure what world you are living in. The Red Sox are not rebuilding. That would have made sense. Trade away your players instead of letting them walk in free agency and rebuild a middle of the road farm system so you can contend in a couple of years.
No. That is not what the Red Sox did. They have a $221 million payroll but spent that money moronically. That is why they are in last place for the 3rd time in the last 4 seasons.
The Red Sox schedule for the month of July leading up to the deadline goes as followed:
2 @ Tor
3 vs Tx
3 vs Oak
3 @ Cubs
3 @ Oak
3 vs NYM
2 vs Atl
3 @ SF
1 @ Sea
And then the August 1st deadline. Except for the Rangers and Braves all those other teams are up and down. They could take all 6 from the A’s or just as easily lose all 6. It really is hard to map out a plan but this month will paint the bigger picture
Rsox – Haven’t been following the Giants?
17-12 in May
18-8 in June
They will not be easy to beat.
I would bet my house Oakland doesn’t win all 6 or even 5.
Yes they have gotten better as the weather has gotten warmer. The one thing with Giants is they have had 4 losing streaks of at least three games and two losing streaks of at least 4 which offers a glimmer of hope. Its a tough schedule indeed and this month probably makes or breaks the team. That said, regardless of what happens i expect that no significant changes will be made and like last season any trades will likely feature players to go right onto the roster to replace whomever (if anyone) is moved
They could take all 6 from the A’s or just as easily lose all 6.
========================
Unlikely, but I get the point. 11-1 against the NYY & TO, but 0-9 against Miami, PT & StL.
I wouldn’t call Oakland, cubbies, and mets for 11 out of 22 games being a tough schedule, but, this squad will probably make it seem like it.
Sell, sell, sell and get this dumpster fire team in position for a complete do over. Tank the season and fire everyone and then sell the team. Ownership doesn’t care about winning anymore.
Martin -Keep as closer–he is an excellent shutdown person–don’t trade him, extend him.
Hanley–if you can get a good prospect.
Turner—has to get a good prospect-he’s your 1B, 3B, DH & clubhouse insurance.
Schreiber is an important piece coming off the IL He’s crucial to whether Hanley stays or is traded. He takes over the set-up role with ‘Doc’ Martin as the closer.
Devers is the best chip, IMO, to land some talent. He’s the only real HR threat in our line-up. I would move him for a # 1-3 starting pitcher and a can’t-miss catching prospect, I would hope Turner and Dalbec could pick up the production and man 3B.
I love Devers but you are seeing the very, very best of his 3B play. He’s not going to get any better, only worse.
I agree on Martin, otherwise they’d be Cluneless.
mad – Hanley is retired already.