The Rangers and Mets have agreed to a trade that will see the star right-hander Max Scherzer head to Texas, with prospect Luisangel Acuña heading the other way. The Mets are paying down all but $22.5MM of the remaining money owed to Scherzer, who will waive his no-trade clause. He will also trigger his player option for 2024, forgoing his opt-out opportunity.
The Mets signed Scherzer to a three-year, $130MM deal going into the 2022 season, as part of a high-spending strategy aimed at contention. The first year generally went well, as the Mets won 101 games with Scherzer contributing 23 starts of 2.29 ERA ball. This year hasn’t been nearly as successful, however, as the Mets have slumped to 49-54 and 6.5 games out of a playoff spot. It seems they have accepted the fact that they have to do some selling, having already flipped David Robertson to the Marlins.
That’s also come with diminished results from Scherzer, who has posted an ERA of 4.01 this year, working around a 10-game sticky stuff suspension earlier in the season. His strikeouts have dipped this season, with his 27.3% rate representing his lowest since 2011.
With the Mets struggling, it’s led to speculation about how they would react. Impending free agents like Robertson, Tommy Pham and others seemed like natural trade candidates, but Scherzer’s situation was more complicated. As mentioned, he had a full no-trade clause and would need to agree to any deal. It was reported in June that he was willing to waive that clause under certain circumstances, though without concrete information about what it would take for him to do so.
Further complicating matters was Scherzer’s ability to opt out of the final year of his deal, leaving $43.33MM on the table. Some sources describe this as a player option, though the situation is the same either way, with Scherzer getting to decide whether to become a free agent or not. He spoke about his situation earlier this week, saying that he’s “not going to be a free agent” and “can see a path to contend next year” with the Mets. Though he also said he would speak with the front office about the club’s direction.
He’s still owed just under $15MM for the remainder of this season, on top of the $43.33MM for next year, a total just north of $58MM. Whatever return the Rangers were willing to send to the Mets might have taken a different shape if they were to view Scherzer as a rental or a pickup for a year and a half with a massive salary. They reportedly wanted Scherzer to lock in that 2024 season, which he has now apparently done.
Since the Mets are paying down all but $22.5MM, that means they’re eating more than $35MM in this deal. The Mets have shown a tendency to eat money in trades in order to maximize returns, such as sending Eduardo Escobar to the Angels and James McCann to the Orioles, and have done so here.
The Rangers have been clearly looking for starting pitching recently, having been connected to Lance Lynn, Jack Flaherty, Jordan Montgomery, Eduardo Rodriguez, Shohei Ohtani, Justin Verlander and Scherzer. They have had a couple of rotation setbacks this year, most notably the loss of Jacob deGrom. He was signed to a five-year, $185MM guarantee in the offseason but required Tommy John surgery in June, putting him out for the remainder of this year and some of 2024 as well. They also lost Jake Odorizzi to a season-ending shoulder surgery.
The club has operated for most of the season with a rotation of Nathan Eovaldi, Jon Gray, Martín Pérez and Andrew Heaney, with Dane Dunning stepping in for deGrom. The results from that group have been varied, with Eovaldi’s 2.69 ERA the lowest and Pérez the highest at 4.91. Dunning is at 3.28 but with a 15.5% strikeout rate that’s well below league average. Since his .269 batting average on balls in play and 77.5% strand rate are on the lucky side, his 4.26 FIP and 4.88 SIERA suggest he’s skirted around some runs. He’s the only member of the rotation with options and could perhaps wind up in the minors as depth, though he’s also worked out of the bullpen before. Additionally, Eovaldi is dealing with some elbow soreness, per Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. He’s not going on the IL yet but his scheduled start is being pushed back. Although Scherzer’s not having his best season, he would still be an upgrade for that group. By sticking around for 2024, he will also help them cover for Pérez becoming a free agent, with deGrom potentially returning later in the year.
The Rangers are currently 60-44 and hold a two-game lead over the Astros in the American League West, with the third-place Angels aggressively pursuing upgrades as well. The Rangers haven’t made the postseason since 2016, which was also the last time they finished above .500. They’ve shown a willingness to be very aggressive in recent years as they look to get out of that spiral, giving out huge deals to players like Corey Seager and Marcus Semien, as well as the aforementioned starting pitchers. They’ve already bolstered their bullpen by acquiring Aroldis Chapman and now have made a massive move for their rotation.
It was reported this week that the club would be open to surpassing the $233MM base threshold of the luxury tax for Verlander, though it remains to be seen if they will do the same for Scherzer. Roster Resource currently lists their CBT figure at $224MM, or $9MM below the line. Assuming the $22.5MM they are paying Scherzer is evenly distributed between now and the end of next year, they’ll be adding just under $6MM to that. That will leave them shy of the line for now but further moves could tip the scales.
In order to obtain Scherzer’s services, the club has parted with Acuña. The 21-year-old shortstop is the younger brother of Atlanta’s superstar outfielder Ronald Acuña Jr. Signed out of Venezuela in 2018, he has climbed through the minor league ranks to reach Double-A. In 84 games at that level this year, he’s hitting .315/.377/.453 for a wRC+ of 121 while stealing 42 bases. Baseball America currently lists him at the #87 prospect in the league while FanGraphs has him at #56. BA suspects he’ll have to move to second base eventually but that he could be a solid regular there.
As for the Mets, this could perhaps give some hint as to how far they are willing to go in trading from this year’s roster in order to acquire help for future seasons. They’ve already traded Robertson and could shop other impending free agents like Pham and Carlos Carrasco. Mark Canha and Brooks Raley could also make sense, though they are pure rentals since the club has options for 2024. Omar Narváez and Adam Ottavino have player options for 2024. José Quintana’s contract runs through 2024 and he has received some trade interest.
The bigger fish, though, is Verlander. He just signed a two-year deal in the offseason that pays him $43.33MM per year, matching Scherzer’s salary, with a conditional $35MM option for 2025 as well. Like Scherzer, he also has a full no-trade clause and said just a few days ago that the club hadn’t yet approached him about waiving it. But it was later reported that the club would only approach the players about their clauses after finding workable trade packages, which seems to have been the case in this Scherzer deal.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Michael Schwab of Juice Box Journal first reported that the Rangers had a deal in place for Scherzer, contingent on him waiving his no-trade clause. Andy Martino of Steve Gelbs of SNY relayed that Scherzer would waive his clause, but that the financial components of the deal weren’t complete. Jon Heyman of The New York Post first reported on Acuña’s inclusion in the deal, as well as the fact that the Rangers wanted him to forego his opt-out at season’s end and that the deal was done. Martino relayed the financials while Jeff Passan of ESPN reported that Scherzer will trigger in his 2024 option, with Heyman adding that he’ll receive some additional amenities for doing so.
rct
If they’re going to trade one of Scherzer and Verlander, I hope it’s Scherzer. At times he’s looked great but very often he looks cooked.
VonPurpleHayes
Yeah. Scherzer’s the worse of the two. He’s also come up short in almost every big game for the Metsies.
rct
Don’t remind me!
padam
Well, he gets to pitch with DeGrom agai…
Mattimeo09
I’m not a Mets fan. But even I winced at that. Ouch
padam
They would get Acuna’s little brother in the deal along with Porter and Walcott supposedly.
Almond joys are awful
There is zero percent chance they are all included
DUDDUS
That is way too much with this guys salary. I hope this isn’t true
KhaluChris
That seems like an awful lot unless Mets are picking up the tab on a huge chunk of the $59m owed to Max between now and the end of next season…
GeronimoSon
…or divert the return from the Rangers minor leagues to a club that prefers prospects and are willing to give up bona fide major league players or near ready ML’ers.. Example: “a” top prospect from the Rangers like Brock Porter is shipped to the Cardinals for Jordan Walker as the headliners.
The Mets don’t want prospects.. they want an immediate rebuild…
richardc
I’ve heard Brock Porter and Saggese (sp?) are two of the players most likely going
Captain-Judge99
Yeah because if that’s the case then the Rangers got ripped off then.
padam
It’s two of the three. Supposedly Acuna is the main piece.
Almond joys are awful
For what it’s worth, the ranger beat writer said Walcott was pulled from the game for disciplinary reasons
kahnkobra
Jordan Walker is a free agent after the season, they can just sign him
Cardsfanatik redux
lmfao. You’re not getting Jordan Walker for that. please
Cardsfanatik redux
@kahnkobra Jordan Walker is not even arbitration eligible ffs. where do you people get this crap?
bighiggy
You mean Montgomery I think, not walker
Cardsfanatik redux
that makes wayyyyy more sense
bighiggy
Don’t think they will trade walker but maybe you mean Montgomery? They are both jordans.
myaccount2
@almond- definitely not zero chance if the Mets retain all his salary.
GASoxFan
Porter made his start for the down east wood ducks, going 3 IP today.
So, he wasn’t pulled for this trade.
chrcritter
definitely zero chance. he’s still an antique
padam
Apparently he is. Was way below the pitch count from his prior games.
Holdup is cash supposedly going back with Max.
Tigers3232
@padam, that’s if deGrom can find his way back to the mound healthy before end of next season…
fearthecub
He made an err Jordan.
kahnkobra
my bad, was thinking Jordan Hicks
kahnkobra
they have too many Jordans
padam
NY reporting it’s Acuna. Others have been pulled for different reasons or possible trades.
Steve Nebraska
Wouldn’t it be funny if the trade was for Kumar Rocker?
BaseballisLife
Looking like Acuna, Porter, and another.
PhiladelphiaCollins
Go for it if you’re the Mets,
Pickle_Britches
Acuna is pretty close he’s been in AA all year last year also played in AA towards the end. He’s pretty much ready to advance to AAA right now and compete for spot on the roster in 24 spring training. Could be the Mets starting 2b next year.
Fever Pitch Guy
rct – I wouldn’t be surprised if Scherzer wants additional money to waive his no-trade.
And there’s no chance he opts out after this season if he continues to pitch the way he has been.
dugmet
3 prospects seem like a lot even if Mets pick up 80% of the contract.
dugmet
Not true. Cohen’s goal has been long term stability through the minors which means adding the best possible.
Goku the Knowledgable One
who wants to see Kumar Rocker traded back to Mets?!?
lol
CardsFan57
That’s a hilarious scenario for Walker.
Blue Baron
@GeronimoSun: You don’t know what you’re talking about. The Mets actually do want prospects.
Steve Nebraska
Rangers got screwed. Why are they even paying $22.5M? Scherzer is a 40-year-old pitcher with and ERA over 4 and the Rangers are still paying him over $20M per year. Why give up a guy like Luisangel Acuna for that? It doesn’t seem worth it to me. If they were going to trade Luisangel, they probably could have gotten a better pitcher and paid even less money. I don’t get it. Acuna should have been virtually untouchable and Scherzer definitely isn’t the guy who should make that change. Not now anyway. Maybe several years ago but definitely not anymore. If this is the market the Mets would be very smart to move on from Verlander too.
justinkm19
Not even close.
Blue Baron
@Steve Nebraska: Rangers’ management obviously see it differently. I suspect they have a better sense of the market than you do.
Led Hoyer
Mets are paying the lion share of his salary. The guy is legitimately the best pitcher of the last decade. Their infield is locked down for the foreseeable future. Great trade by the rangers
dugmet
Max can be a good #4 starter on any team. He’s unreliable though – giving up 5 or more runs in 6 starts this year. You cannot rely on him in a big game.
Blue Baron
Which they are, to the tune of about $37 million of the remaining $59 million.
Jordan09
He’s not pretty close. The dude is above average AA. Rangers gets Max for this year and next for 22 million
Win for the Rangers and a gamble for the Mets.
Twoston
Jordan Walker won’t be a true free agent until 2029 or 2030 at the earliest. Jordan Hicks the reliever will be a free agent at seasons end.
DakotaJoe
as painful as this season is for Mets fans this is a good move. they threw the dice and came up with craps. I’m sure Cohen will open the wallet again later, but the Mets need to develop more home grown players, especially pitchers.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Max is one of the best around.. Mets were a mess , and lax environment
Bostonsports85
Apparently everyone is coming up short with ur metsies lmfao
Huck 3
He’s still a good pitcher, above average, although way above in salary. His biggest issue this year has been the HR. Imo, he would serve quite well on a high scoring team. That’s not the Mets, this year.
dugmet
You can slot him in as a #4 or 5 but he spit the bit for the Dodgers and Mets when it counted as an ace.
Huck 3
How did he do for the Nats?
mlb fan
“How did he do for the Nats”..That was 2019; presently it’s the year 2023.
Mattimeo09
Those sure are a couple of numbers.
Anyway, so how did he do in 2019?
mlb fan
“How did he do “….Bartolo Colon on line one; he thinks it’s 2009 and wants a huge deal. You interested?
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
You don’t have to say “the year.” No one says “the year 1983.”
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
Please stop fantasizing about getting a teams best prospect(s) for washed up players.
Blue Baron
@windmill: Actually, Acuña is the Rangers’ 3rd best prospect and in mlb.com’s top 100.
Huck 3
Your comment implied that he doesn’t have the cojones or mental toughness to win games in the playoffs and WS. His history proves otherwise.
davidrocholl
If the Rangers are going after Scherzer though, the Mets better be paying that contract way down, or I wouldn’t give them anything of high significance.
jyosuckas
Ok but the Mets don’t have to make the trade either, if you haven’t heard their owner is made of money and would be just fine keeping him. The Rangers want him? Pay up
davidrocholl
There owner may be made of money, but he ain’t stupid either.
rct
“if you haven’t heard their owner is made of money and would be just fine keeping him.”
Right, but this argument cuts both ways. He’d also be fine paying a lot of the contract down if it means getting a better prospect back. He’s already shown he’s willing to do this, like with the Escobar deal. If the Mets want anything good back from Texas, Cohen better pay some of the deal off for them.
stymeedone
Escobar was a different stratosphere. Not expecting that here. 90% penalties on Scherzer contact are more than what he paid on Escobar.
mlb fan
Billionaires aren’t dumb and Cohen most likely desperately wants to be done with both Scherzer & Verlander. They haven’t pitched well when it mattered and they’re not like wine, which gets better with age.
Blue Baron
@davidrocholl: As opposed to the genius who says “There owner.”
jyosuckas
Not happening
VonPurpleHayes
jyosuckas This isn’t going to age well.
Ma4170
Scherzer still has games he looks great and overall has been decent, though way below his norms, and far from a $40M+ sp. i think they’ll pay down a big chunk to get someone of value back. He can def help TX this year.
Francys01
Im a bit surprised that the Rangers don’t want Verlander which he is having a better year than Scherzer. Anyways, both are great pitchers.
padam
Verlander may have said no thanks. Holding out for the Astros.
WrongM
@padam Or the Mets decided to hold onto JV and retool around him, especially once they had a deal they found worthwhile for Scherzer. Just because they’re cutting from a roster that didn’t work out this year, it doesn’t mean they need to slash payroll completely.
padam
Quite possible and I’d be fine with it. At at the rate they’re going, the return for Verlander could now increase because an in division rival just got that much better. Add in their familiarity with Verlander and i could see the Astros making an effort for him.
chrcritter
or Scherzer was cheaper in prospects
Ma4170
I could see them wanting to keep verlander and senga for next year and add to that
padam
As a Mets fan, I hope they do. They can round out the rotation with FAs like Montgomery and Giolito. Quintana can slot into the 5th spot.
Simm
It’s because they aren’t giving up much and the Mets are paying him to go away.
Nobody in their right mind even if he is free is giving up much for him. He is washed and now is a 4-5 starter at best.
Ma4170
@simm I’ll bet you’re wrong on that and they’ll get a good prospect
Tigers3232
Who says the Rangers would not have preferred Verlander?? He could ve already informed them which teams he’d consider waving NTC. Or simply the 2 teams could not cone to terms on an agreement for Verlander.
Simm
Doubtful since just the other day he said they had t mmm t approached him and they didn’t with scherzer
miltpappas
Since he was “outed’, he’s all but useless.
iverbure
Mets getting Vargas and catcher Hernandez back if trade goes through.
ChetLemonaid
It would be hilarious if they got Kumar Rocker back!
stymeedone
Mets getting Evoldi back. I don’t know either, but since everyone is throwing stuff out there…
iverbure
Lol that’s what I kept reading I just threw two baseball names out there I dunno if the rangers have a Vargas I should’ve went with a Martinez they gotta have one guy named Martinez lol.
Mac Attack
I’m floored. The Dodgers want Verlander and will offer top prospects. The Mets will suck next year unless the buy another rent a team
metslvt17
That’s a really nice return for the Mets
Diabetic Rockstar
It’s always been that way….back when Tigers had a rotation of Porcello / Anibal Sanchez / Doug Fister-then-David Price / Verlander / Scherzer, Max left Detroit because tho they offered both extensions JV’s was far longer & more $$, effectively picking JV over Max
Btw how the F did Tigers not win a title with some of their rotation arms and guys like Miggy, Vmart, Castellanos, JD Martinez, Torri Hunter, Magglio Ordonez, Pudge, etc
iverbure
Their bullpen wasn’t very good the one year I specifically remember and DD teams usually aren’t known for defence.
EliMorganFanClub
He’s definitely gonna waive it and go to Texas
Slider_withcheese
Texas should know better
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
What if they get to dump Perez’s contract and then give up a marginal prospect? It’s a form of salary relief.
Sourhaze
Not happening. Rangers gonna get fleeced. I can see it happening
trog
Right. Because they sure got fleeced in the Aroldis Chapman trade. (eye roll)
stymeedone
Chapman trade has nothing to do with Scherzer. They are separate things. You do know that, don’t you?
davidrocholl
I like the way you think!! Mets would still need to pay it down some though.
CursedRangers
Would be ironic if it’s DeGrom + Rocker for Scherzer
User 401527550
That would be the trade of all trades.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I don’t think most people who use the word irony understand what it means. Here is an example of irony: Ironically, Verlander said no to Texas because he thought the Mets had a better chance of winning, but one team is below .500, while the other is in 1st place.
jjd002
Won’t be in first for long.
thunderecho
FWIW RHP Scherzer agreed to waive his no-trade clause.
If everything is worked out, Mets will be sending a $$$$Brinks Truck$$$$$ and Scherzer to Arlington.
In return, Rangers sending good prospects to Mets.
SoCalBrave
@Texas Ranger
You don’t seem to understand irony either.
Irony is when an action you take to prevent an outcome, directly or indirectly leads to the outcome you were trying to prevent.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
@SoCal: He didn’t want to play for a non-contender, and yet, he ended up playing for one. That is literally irony. He isn’t getting to leave the Mets since that’s Scherzer. It is 100% a perfect example of irony. He is on a non-contender that will finish under .500 for the season. He should have chosen Texas instead.
jjd002
It’s cute you think Texas a contender
SoCalBrave
If you meant that he didn’t sign in the off-season with Texas, then yes, you are 100% correct. I thought you meant he said no to waiving his non-trade agreement. Then it makes no sense.
Simm
He didn’t sign with the rangers because they weren’t paying what the Mets did.
Scherzer got paid bank from the Mets.
Buzz Killington
Scherzer Texas Ranger
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Nah. He’s a tick above average. I consider him to be the most overrated pitcher in baseball. I hate how he still wants to keep his player option. I wonder what happens to the cash if he does opt out. If they lose cash if he opts out, this is a terrible trade for a trashy human being.
GASoxFan
If scherzer opts out, any cash as part of the 2024 season stays with Cohen.
Hopefully they structured the deal so 100% of the remaining 2023 salary comes from NY, with the balance of any included is in 2024.
That’s the best you’re going to get. Only other possible, but unlikely, option is there’s a PTBNL or cash considerations due to Tex within the 6 month limitation period designed to fall after Scherzer has to exercise his option.
If scherzer returns, it defaults to cash. If he opts out, Tex has a slate of a-ball lottery tickets it can pick one of to offset.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I saw a tweet that now says he did opt in. Man! These reporters are making a mockery of what was already a joke (journalism). I’ll wait a few hours for the dust to settle atm.
GASoxFan
Or, should we cue up the jokes about any big deal- free agent, trade, or otherwise – involving the Mets requires as part of the recipe a degree of drama and dysfunction?
Robrock30
My advice Caveat Emptor
Oscar the Grouch
Ok, there’s a big move.
Samuel
“Ok, there’s a big move.”
Oscar the Grouch;
Think it’ll prove to be as big a one as when the Mets signed him?….
I mean other than the amount of money involved?
Motor City Beach Bum
Wow. That will change the landscape of the trade deadline right there. Probably means Verlander is available too? That’s a potential customer for the Tigers out of the mix.
rct
“Probably means Verlander is available too?”
It could but not necessarily. I guarantee Cohen is going to spend a lot this offseason with the idea of competing next year. If they trade Verlander as well, then they’ll realistically only have Senga penciled in for the rotation.
jopeness
@rct, I don’t think there is much on the upcoming FA market. It is a smart move on the Mets to shed salary relief and signal, no matter what you make you have to perform
Ma4170
Theres a lot of sp available in FA. Nola, urias, giolito, montgomery, snell… they could realistically sign two with their money
deweybelongsinthehall
Just remember Cohen made his money in the financial world. He built the team to win now. While he has the most money out of all owners, he likely factored in higher attendance, playoff home games and more merchandise sales when he broke the bank so to speak this year. Even a multi-billionaire can do the math and think with the penalty tax, I can save $50m (arbitrary number) and put it back into the club next year.
Hemlock
> Nola, urias, giolito, montgomery, snell…
> they could realistically sign two
Too young for the Mets
User 401527550
They are probably signing Yamamoto from Japan too.
stymeedone
I thought it signaled they have to make a profit.
stymeedone
Don’t forget Lynn!
Braves4410
Or… Cohen may realize the only way to win consistently like he wants is to build a farm system and home grow it!
rct
“Cohen may realize the only way to win consistently like he wants is to build a farm system and home grow it!”
He already knows this. The awful PCA trade aside, the Mets haven’t really traded any impact prospects away recently. They could have done so last offseason but held firm on their top prospects. Cohen’s plan has always been to develop the farm system while spending a ton to keep the current club competitive. Worked last year, this year not so much.
VonPurpleHayes
Yeah. I think the Mets have been rebuilding while also spending an ungodly amount of money. They haven’t emptied the farm at all. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they spend less next offseason in an attempt to continue developing the farm. Cohen showing patience is actually more frightening than Cohen just buying everyone.
foppert1
He said as much in his recent press conference. The unsustainable big spend is a temporary solution while he gets development sorted.
The telling thing for me was he spoke about recently getting a presentation from his staff on player development technology. I’m guessing a few owners got that presentation 5 years ago. Big Steve has work to do. Looks like he is on it though.
rct
@Von: I agree. I think Cohen will spend a lot on pitching this offseason, though. It’s a definite need (moreso if this Scherzer deal goes through) and their pitching in the upper levels of the minors is very weak. I don’t think he’ll splurge on any position players but I could definitely see him do it on pitching.
Hemlock
> Or… Cohen may realize
You lost me here with your complex logic.
sfes
You’re talking common sense to morons. MLBTR comment section has become a dumpster fire of 12 year old front runners.
Hemlock
The Mets are trading Scherzer because he took exception to Robertson being traded.
“You have to talk to the brass. You have to understand what they see, what they’re going to do,” Scherzer said. “That’s the best I can tell you. I told you I wasn’t going to comment on this until Steve was going to sell. We traded Robertson. Now we need to have a conversation.”
They’re just doing him a courtesy. Cohen didn’t become smart overnight.
GASoxFan
Hemlock – it’s not a courtesy, is business.
Mets couldn’t move Scherzer without his OK. They were stuck paying him 43m for no-tack 10-15m of performance. But it was business, and they understood it.
Max was in NY because until the white flag went up, they needed his relative stability in the rotation. His deal was underwater, and until NY was willing to pay it down, nobody wanted that salary nevermind where it was respective to his performance. So, he also was professional about taking the ball his turns through and do more or less the best he could, with and without the sticky.
If the return didn’t justify it, Cohen wasn’t going to trade Max just as a courtesy and lose money. That’s bad business. And Max wasn’t giving up his leverage to only go to a contender just to give Cohen the courtesy of the best return/deal possible.
marcfrombrooklyn
That is simply not true according to reports that the (possible) trade was in motion before last night’s comments.
Rexhudler86
He’s essentially buying a farm, if he pays for the albatross contract for a top 100 prospect. Also I think mad max wanted out after Robertson was traded he said he needed to talk to the front office about the direction they headed in.
mlb fan
Mets should trade BOTH Justin and Scherzer and target guys like Monty of St Louis, Stroman, Snell or the other great Japanese pitcher, I can’t remember his name. It’s been quite a long time since either Justin or Max were good in a playoff or other big game.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
MLB Fan
Yep, Cohen just freed up money for Yoshinobu Yamamoto
thunderecho
Astros and Mets are in advanced trade discussions on RHP Verlander.
Astros are one of the few contenders willing to trade assets from their big league roster. Astros fans might balk at the return that is being discussed.
burn0820
Verlander is not available now. They need him for next year, Mets aren’t trading both. Also, Verlander wants to stay and Scherzer clearly doesn’t so there’s that
cornwhisperer
If anything, he’s even more available now because truthfully, this team is going nowhere for the foreseeable future
VonPurpleHayes
I think Verlander goes too. Verlander and Scherzer were win-now experiments that didn’t work. Cohen is now stocking up the farm.
This one belongs to the Reds
Seriously?
LordD99
Scherzer and $40MM in cash for an A-ball player.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I was thinking $25MM for a PTBNL equivalent.
jvent
It’s definitely not going to be for an A-ball player if they’re giving $$ too it has to be Jack Leiter plus others maybe an OF prospect
seamaholic 2
Heh. Not a chance in the world it will be Leiter. It will be a decent but not very well known prospect, but the Mets also aren’t sending that much money either.
VonPurpleHayes
Oh I disagree. I think the Mets will be paying most of Scherzer’s contract and as a result get a huge return that may include Leiter.
Ma4170
I was hoping foscue or porter but they may be pipe dreams
guilderc
Only names that have been mentioned in any reports up to this point are Acuña and Walcott
VonPurpleHayes
I think that’s the likely return, and a good one at that.
jvent
We’ll see soon lol
Ma4170
Wow id be very happy w acuna
richardc
I think Porter is included, he was just pulled from his start after 3IP and 52 pitches
Him and an INF Saggese are the players I’m hearing so far
mlb fan
“Scherzer & 40MM dollars” = Mid range prospect. Max is up and down at this point in his career and he’s not lIke wine, that gets better with age. He’s among league leaders in HR allowed and he’s simply not that good anymore.
BaseballisLife
A Double A prospect Acuna and a single A prospect Porter and about $15 million.
kidnova
Walcott was pulled from his game in the ACL. I seriously hope the Rangers aren’t giving him up for a Scherzer rental.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
If it is a top 100 guy, I really hope it’s him or Owen White instead of a real prospect like Carter, Porter, Leiter, or Acuna/Foscue.
Rickover50
He can opt out. Would rather have erod
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
He won’t opt out of 43.3 MM if he keeps up giving up 2 HR per 9.
seamaholic 2
Yeah he will if he doesn’t want to play in Texas.
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t see many not wanting to leave Queens this season.
Pete'sView
He’ll want to play in the playoffs and possibly the WS. The Rangers are headed in that direction. And Scherzer isn’t opting out of $43.3M no matter where he plays.
stymeedone
He wants to, right up until he gets there. Then he doesn’t.
Tigers3232
If he doesn’t want to play in TEX he ll invoke his NTC, not waive it and then opt out.
VonPurpleHayes
He already agreed to waive the NTC. They’re just finalizing some money issues.
Atloriolesfan
The interesting part of the Scherzer deal is that he’s going to a team that may need HIM to carry them into the playoff. They are competing with the Astros for the West and Heim is hurt and Eovaldi having health issues.
If the Astros pass them, they have to beat out the fourth place team from the AL East and the Mariners and Angels. No sure thing at all if Scherzer pitches to a 4 ERA. And he lost his control over 2024. Who can say that the 2024 Rangers aren’t the 2023 Mets? So he may be in exactly the same place a year from now.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
They lose Martin Perez and will have more young guys coming up (hopefully). They can make trades for more consistent guys, and Japanese/US free agency can allow them to shuffle the money around. They set 20 million on fire this year on Perezz that they will get back. I highly doubt Texas does worse next year. Houston is only getting older, with almost no farm system left.
Rickover50
This is what happens when you’re quoted saying I need to talk to the owner immediately. Uh no you don’t max. You’re a commodity is all
GASoxFan
Rickover- you may have missed Max had no-trade protection.
Ever stop to think he was previously asked about waiving the no-trade clause and his comment about talking to brass was to take them up on it?
Or even just to signal he wanted out and which teams get would waive it for?
Scherzer was and is in control of where he goes as a trade.
YankeesBleacherCreature
He has a player option next year which he will most certainly exercise.
Pete'sView
Scherzer ain’t giving up $43.3M next year after the year he’s had.
BaloniusFunk
It’s 1.5 yrs of MS
kidnova
True, but I still wouldn’t give up Walcott, but maybe NYM are eating a bunch of his salary.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Muscular Sclerosis?! I’ve always seen his antics as a clubhouse cancer, but to each their own!
mgomrjsurf
Also maybe Canha,BP,Catcher from Mets maybe to.
Does change the Deadline for like Astros,Rays and so on.
User 401527550
That makes sense. It sounds like the Mets want real young players with big upsides.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Unlike the pther 29 teams in the MLB.
VonPurpleHayes
Walcott’s removal was apparently disciplinary and not related to a trade.
kidnova
Yeah, I saw the same report, but who knows? I guess we’ll find out soon enough after Scherzer makes his decision.
User 1104686089
Jon Heyman posted on Twitter that is was for disciplinary reasons not for a trade. Not sure what a Heyman rumor does for us but it is there.
Little Stevie Janowsky
Rangers take on scherzers entire contract and get francisco alvarez as a Consolation prize
jyosuckas
Idiot comment from the biggest turd on this site
SkipperLou
He’ll chime in when he gets done conjuring up the next big Tommy Edman trade
Tigers3232
He’s probably busy satisfying himself to Lars Nootbar highlight videos. He ll have to work quick, those would not b lengthy videos….
Rsox
Scherzer’s playing career is winding down and his window to win another championship is closing. Texas offers a chance at the post season this year, who knows what next year will bring for the Mets. Smart play is to waive the no-trade clause
phenomenalajs
Steve should tell Billy no if he has to seriously pay down either one’s contract.
Sunday Lasagna
@phenomenalajs, why? Cohen has 16 BIllion. The 60 mill left on Scherzer including the opt year is less than a half a percent. The equivalent of a guy with $10K buying a round of drinks for $50. Cohen has more money than he knows what to do with.
This one belongs to the Reds
He didn’t make 16 billion by wasting it. Business 101.
Sunday Lasagna
agreed 100% @this one belongs to the Reds. but im sure he also knew when to cut losses and invest in other places. The note i responded to was saying that Cohen should forece Eppler to keep him. Good businessmen do not hold on to bad assets out of spite. They move on.
rct
True but he could in effect buy a prospect from the Rangers if he pays down enough. That could be a smart move depending on the prospect.
Tigers3232
@Reds, I’m sure any $ he eats his accounts write off some how. Billionaires do not become Billionaires without utilizing every loophole in tax code. Business 201.
This one belongs to the Reds
Yep, the more you have, the more you can write off. Thank your local congressman.
Jeremy320
So…citadel essentially combines stock buys from all over (billions) Often combined fractional buys and it sweeps the remainder (a la lex in superman)
User 401527550
I think people are overestimating how much contract they might have to pay down. The Rangers aren’t afraid to spend money and there is no point in trading them if they are paying a lot of the contract.
CardsFan57
Scherzer is not worth his contract at this point. Pitchers having better years are available for far less money. Why would the Ranger’s spend far more for less performance?
User 401527550
Because they are desperate for a winner.
CardsFan57
I think you miss the part about better pitchers being available now. There’s no reason for that level of desperation.
User 401527550
Who’s better? Verlander? I think you are overestimating how bad he is now. His ERA of the last two seasons was 2.29 and 2.46. He’s been a bit unlucky with the homerun ball this year.
GASoxFan
Is it unlucky, or, is it unstucky?
Until he proves he can perform without getting called out for the tack, his prior years are divorced from future performance in any evaluation.
He’s still a MLB quality arm, but his contract is underwater making him, theoretically, a cheaper pickup in prospect capital
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Lol what? A caveman and cash for nothing, I hope
davidrocholl
I personally would like to see the Rangers get there shopping done, from either the Tigers or Cardinals.
King of Cards
All for a Rangers Cardinals deal but this might eliminate that possibility
WideWorldofSports
Good for the Rangers, taking on washed up Mets pitchers
Al Hirschen
Keep Verlander please unless you get a package that blows your mind
Sunday Lasagna
Scherzer & cash for Kumar Rocker, currently recovering from TJ.
seamaholic 2
Would be such poetic irony if Rocker ends up back on the Mets.
86mets
The Rangers will ask the Mets to throw in a couple cases of rosin specifically formulated for Maxie. That may be one of the “hurdles” that need to be crossed. The prospect return to us may hinge on the inclusion of the rosin.
Gwynning
*Spidertackerosin ™
Wheeler Dealer
What if the Cubs went and got Verlander? Never saw that coming
kma
Cubs Woo!
meckert
Max, we hardly knew ye.
AgentF
Say Luisangel Acuna and Jack Leiter are a part of this and I’d be happy as a Mets fan. We could even throw in Vogelbach for good measure.
seamaholic 2
You won’t be happy as a Mets fan then.
FrankP
You’re actually getting better players. Walcott and Porter. Walcott is only 17 and a stud. He will be a top 50 next year and Lieter is having issues.
AgentF
I’d still prefer Acuna over Walcott. Porter has excellent stuff, but the walk rate scare me a bit, even if it is very early in his career. There is zero question about whether his stuff is good enough. Seems like something is definitely happening. Might be a case where having a rich owner is beneficial in that he can eat the salary and drive up the value on the return.
User 1104686089
It’s Acuna and Saggase, Walcott was pulled for disciplinary reasons
BaseballisLife
Porter was pulled in the 3rd inning of his start with a shutout and 6k.
brooklyn62
He looked GREAT!…Uh, against the Nationals last night. That’s like beating up a girl’s HS softball team.
cainer18
The Nationals have some talent in the lineup. It’s a work in progress, but let’s not treat Washington like the A’s or Royals
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
The A’s did just score 19 runs in two games, regardless of opponent, it’s not bad.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
The girls’ high school softball team takes offense to that!
AL B DAMNED
Mets may have a little bidding war between Astros and Rangers on BOTH Verlander and Scherzer. Seems like with both teams in on both pitchers, the Mets may wiggle around to paying a smaller portion of salaries! My guess is Verlander to the Astros, because of familiarity, and not to be outdone..Scherzer to the Rangers.
burn0820
They’re not trading both they need Verlander for next year
VonPurpleHayes
I think they absolutely trade both.
Samuel
Von;
The Mets are doing what the Padres do…..
Overpay free agents, then toggle between loading up on prospects and trading batches of the prospects for expensive name players.
The future is always exciting…..it’s the present that’s a drag.
Tigers3232
@Samuel the Mets have not been trading away prospects. That was the point of signing all the pitchers to short multi year deals with high AAV. They maintained their farm system which is one of highest ranked in MLB. And these high AAV contracts will b off the books when prospects are coming up to add players around them.
Samuel
Tigers3232;
The last 3 months.
Chris from NJ
Angry O’s fan. Maybe one day Baltimore will spend some money on someone not named Chris Davis. It’s always a knock on big market teams. The Mets and Padres ownership spend money to put a good product on the field. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I guess as an O’s fan you gotta live by the future is always exciting if the present is a drag. The O’s should be in on Scherzer,Verlander,or Snell. But they won’t spend the money. Not today, not tomorrow and certainly not in the past
Astros Hot Takes
Verlander is worth 35 million a year, for sure, and I’d like to get him if Cohen would toss in 10 Million to offset next year’s salary, BUT
Astros can’t afford him for 24 & ’25 – Tax penalties are SERIOUSLY exorbitant, and everybody on the team currently is due for substantial raises in arb, plus the desire to extend Tucker, etc.
Heck, even now he’d take us into tax territory for this year.
stroh
Stros still have $13M in luxury tax space this year even after Graveman trade. Enough for JV for 2 months. And only $149M in luxury tax commitments next year. But I’m sure Crane would like a bit of a discount from the Mets
Astros Hot Takes
@stroh – Verlander, like Scherzer, still owed 15 million for this year, which puts us 2 million over; I suppose we could send Mets Brantley along with our prospects to get us back under
10centBeerNight
Has a sense they would have suitors for Scherzer, but maybe return ask might scare teams off. Solid 7 inning performance last night didn’t hurt his appeal
guilderc
“Texas Rangers’ SS prospect Sebastian Walcott,
@MLBPipeline’s 6th-ranked Rangers’ prospect, was reportedly just pulled from his minor league game”.
Rangerfan99
Pulled for disciplinary reasons
GASoxFan
Was about to say that Rangerfan.
Also, I think Porter did make a start afterall
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Thank God. If they traded Acuna and Walcott, I wouldn’t have cared, but this guy Porter should not be traded, unless it’s for Cease.
Ma4170
Porter pulled after 52 pitches so who knows… acuna not in Frisco lineup
GASoxFan
3 IP tonight, so, while it’s no guarantee, you’d think if he was in the return they’d hold him back.
Possible an initial version of the trade mightve called for him and they shifted the return – either not including another piece coming back, or, monetary offset changed. Who knows.
Ma4170
I think acuna not in lineup more telling, but as a met fan I’d be happily shocked if he came back in the trade
Sunday Lasagna
Insurance should presumably be paying deGrom, so even if the Rangers have to take on a good amount of money, they are essentially replacing payroll dollars not necessarily adding them
YankeesBleacherCreature
Ken Rosenthal said months ago the Rangers didn’t/couldn’t insure the deGrom contract.
kidnova
Given his injury history the cost would likely have been prohibitive.
stymeedone
DeGrom, due to amount and injury history,is uninsureable.
oz10
They were not able to get his contract insured due to his injury history. Even the insurance companies knew it was a bad deal.
foppert1
Samson addressed player insurance in one of his podcasts this week. Insurance medicals, pre existing injury exclusions, cost prohibitive, court battles over non payment….interesting stuff. Worth a listen if your interested in how it goes down.
Tigers3232
Any chance you could provide a link to that podcast? Sounds interesting.
foppert1
Pretty sure in it’s in this one
open.spotify.com/episode/4poKnmtv90W2eFq0lsfHPK?si…
If not, try the episode before it.
mgomrjsurf
Title needs to be updated Heyman just said on Twitter agreed on just needing Scherzsr’s approval.
hiflew
Would be hilarious if the return was Kumar Rocker.
soxfan1
Mets already know they don’t want him
sugoi51
Juice Box Journal?
AL B DAMNED
OK,I was right about Scherzer to the Rangers, NOW Verlander to the Astros, Dodgers, or staying with Mets! Any other team is a sleeper!
Sourhaze
JV stays. Hes made it clear he wants to stay unlike diva Max
VonPurpleHayes
I know this isn’t the case, but it’d be hilarious if deGrom is part of the return to NY.
King of Cards
I don’t think it’s that far fetched but yeah probably not.
rct
deGrom and Rocker would be hilarious.
10centBeerNight
Fascinated to know what the return and how much Cohen cash is going to Dallas. Have to respect Rangers org for being all in and aggressive. The fans deserve it
Seamaholic
Oh the fans will be paying for it. This isn’t a gift to them and won’t be coming out of the owner’s pocket.
rct
Right. It will be coming out of Cohen’s pocket.
Kevin28786
Cool trade between two organizations that won’t do the heavy lifting required to build and sustain success. “Just throw $$$ at it, guys!” LMAO
King of Cards
You need to do both to have sustained success. But the Rangers have never won it all so I think just 1 championship would be worth whatever price they pay.
Tigers3232
The Mets have one of top ranked farm systems in the game. They signed these short high AAV multi year deals to try and b competitive while they do the heavy lifting on young controllable players.
Samuel
Tigers3232;
Please…
Depending on the organization doing the ranking, the Mets fit into the middle of MLB’s farm system rankings by most people (who are usually wrong in that they push the big market teams)…and that was BEFORE they called up the 3 primary prospects this year.
JackStrawb
@Tiger3232 Samuel nails it. After Senga, Baty, and Alvarez were called up, fangraphs had the Mets farm ranked at #21, and that’s 3 years after Cohen bought the team, when they were ranked #23. I think Acuna did push them all the way to #15, and they’ll probably go at least a little higher if they deal Canha and Phama. Keep in mind a lot of the valuation of the Mets farm depends on the slack-jawed overwhelmed Vientos, and that the Mets preferred to bring up Mendick and DJ Stewart rather than Mauricio. If those two fail, you can put the Mets farm around #24, currently.
Sunday Lasagna
GREAT MOVE for the Mets, not sure what the Rangers are thinking! I’m a Dodger fan, still not over Mr dead arm in the playoffs.
Samuel
WampumWalloper;
For all the posts here nongraduating the Rangers, I was about to write that they need to ask a Dodger fan his/her opinion of bringing in Mr. Scherzer for the stretch run.
Thanks for showing up first.
King of Cards
That escalated quickly
Not a Scherzer fan but I like the Rangers so good luck Rangers.
meangreandancingmachine
Once again, St. Louis’ Mo has his thumb up his butt.
This one belongs to the Reds
He’s not alone. The kid GM is napping too but big Bob wouldn’t pay that kind of $$$ despite an 83 million payroll.
stymeedone
@mean grean
So you think it would be a good deal for St.L to trade for Max and his salary?
King Floch
Texas is going MAD (Max).
The Angels might as well quadruple down and trade anything of value they still have in their farm system for even more help. They are going to need it to get past TEX, HOU, SEA, and the AL East teams to secure one of the wildcard spots.
King of Cards
I think Seattle will be left in the dust. But yeah the other teams are playing to win it all.
Jdt8312
Wow….I didn’t think the Mets would do this. I can’t wait to see the details of this. Wonder what they have up their sleeve for next years rotation
King of Cards
Ohtani 15 years 800 million
Gets dealt at next years trade deadline…..Cohen eats 300 million…..
Cleon Jones
Well, best of luck to all inolved, but I dont see how this moves the needle much for Rangers.
Domingo111
Foscue and a pitching prospect would be a great return. Foscue has great plate discipline and 3B and DH are weak spots in the Mets lineup. Mets also need young starting pitching
mgomrjsurf
Mets have Baty at 3B.
Ma4170
Foscue is 2b and that makes more sense for the mets bc i assume they may move mcneil before next year
Jdt8312
How close they are is also a factor. If they are in the low minors Rookie and single A leagues, it makes more sense to duplicate a perceived strength. The Mets got a catcher, and SS from the Marlins.
Ma4170
Foscue is pretty polished, but i doubt TX trades him in this deal
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
He could be used at 2nd while Seager is out and Semien goes to SS, or he can move to the outfield, with his elite plate discipline (more BB than K at AAA).
wileycoyote56
Sack of used balls if they don’t eat that salary
Simm
Even if they paid his entire contract for this year and next I wouldn’t give up more then a mid prospect. The guy is toast.
AL B DAMNED
Now Scherzer in serious talks with Scott Boras on what, or how much to demand for waiving No-Trade clause. Boras wants his cut. Max may not waive. I’m not familiar with Rangers Ownership and their supply of $$$! But Cohen has plenty if he prefers to stay with Mets, just to guarantee he gets his $$$!
Seamaholic
This is true. If he demands they tack on another year guaranteed like Arenado did, I bet the Rangers so thanks but no thanks.
Jdt8312
Max has already agreed to go.
THEY LIVE!!!
7:45pm: Feinsand relays that Scherzer has not yet waived his no-trade clause.
Saint Nick
Maxxie Pad is gonna get lit up in Arlington.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I’d imagine Jack Leiter is going back?
Seamaholic
No, Max has almost no marginal value given he’s still owed $60m over one and a third seasons. They’ll get a good rookie league type most likely.
Ma4170
Doubt that
seamaholic 2
I mean it depends on how much $$ is going to Texas with him. Mets could buy a good prospect if they want.
Ma4170
Thats my gut… they’ll pay a significant portion… we’ll see, they’re obviously negotiating that now
causality
Lol. Where do people pull ideas from. Oh wait. I know.
Jdt8312
If Texas wants him, they’ll meet the Mets price. It also depends on if this is a salary dump for the Mets, of if they want multiple prospects back. If they want a good package of prospects, they’ll have to eat some, or most of the contract.
meckert
Glad he won’t be wearing Cleon’s number anymore.
BaseballisLife
That didn’t take long.
PinstripedPride
Wow! I was expecting Verlander’s name here. Good on the Rangers for making moves!
User 233578298
If you’re gutting this team, just ditch everyone and build from the bottom up.
Jrnomo100
Well that’s something
slider32
Scherzer is a Bulldog who wants to pitch in meaningful games, this deal gets done!
stymeedone
Nah, just like in Detroit, Max doesn’t like pitching in Justin’s shadow.
Sourhaze
Except he chokes on meaningful games
causality
Glad he’s gone. He’s a tough guy. Remember when he was going to his lawyer after he got suspended, only to put his tail between his legs and serve the next day.
Then he was going to the front office today. And they just threw him to the curb.
Lol Ineptler abused him.
causality
Glad he’s gone. He’s a tough guy. Remember when he was going to his lawyer after he got suspended, only to put his tail between his legs and serve the next day.
Then he was going to the front office today. And they just threw him to the curb.
Lol Ineptler abused him
AL B DAMNED
The Scherzer deal between Mets and Rangers is on hold pending Carlos Correa Physical!
Dalton1017
all the Mets fans who think the Rangers are going to trade walcott for scherzer are insane… if Walcott is involved there are alot more moving parts involved.
Astros Hot Takes
This is all SO LOL in an intensely interesting way
Gwynning
Karen Scherzer – Yes, I’d like to speak with whomever is in charge here…
*2 seconds later, Karen is whisked from the building by security.
Astros Hot Takes
LOL! *coffee spew gif
causality
Scherzer
jacl
I wanted them to get Verlander. Scherzer can’t pitch unless he has the sticky stuff. I never thought he was as good as his numbers indicated and now I know why. he’s avg without the sticky stuff.
Yanks2
Scherzer has been amazing for over 10 years. You’re saying he cheated every single season?
myaccount2
People told me Scherzer wasn’t really on the market.
Jdt8312
I didn’t think the Mets were going to trade any of their pitchers. The Mets have no pitching in their minor league system, and next years free agent pitching class is pretty bad.
Jdt8312
Heyman is saying Ronald Acuna’s brother, Luisangel Acuna will be in the deal if it’s finalized.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Rangers must be desperate.
Rangerfan99
Walcott was pulled for disciplinary reasons
sacrifice
Get the vacuum, the house cleaning has begun.
Every 10 years or so the Mets figure out why did we spend so much for this.
Excuse me while I deliver this check to Bobby Bonilla. Oh BTW Mets ticket prices are up 20% next year.
msqboxer
ESPN St. Louis wants to hunt the Cardinals GM down like Shriek for sitting on his hands with all these trades going on.
King of Cards
Let’s wait until Tuesday before freaking out man.
seamaholic 2
What, you wanted the Cards to trade for Scherzer?
thickiedon
Don’t do it, Max
snowyphile1
Hey Rangers,
Wanna lose now and crater later?
raisinsss
My guy Max made a big deal about he wanted to “chat with the brass” about the direction they’re taking and got shown the door.
Did his fair share to contribute to the turd pile that was the 2023 Mets and I’d gladly see him gone for a portion of the $ and a can of low sodium spam. So underrated. The spam, obviously…
King of Cards
This is like marrying a gold digger and then complaining that she left you for somebody richer.
Max is a hired gun. He has no loyalty and neither do the Mets.
seamaholic 2
No one in this business has any loyalty. I got news for you. They tell you they do because it makes sense to do so financially. But they don’t. You’ll find out when Arenado gets traded to the Dodgers, which is one of the places he has wanted to go all along (the Yankees being the other) but neither was in the market when his opt out came.
ChuckyNJ
Mets TV (SNY) saying Scherzer will waive his no-trade. CBS Sports saying it’s a done deal pending physicals and financial issues.
Not only does Scherzer go to a team currently in first place, he’s going to a state that has no state income tax.
LOLmets endures.
GASoxFan
Could be everyone wants Max to waive his opt-out before the deal so the cash component is locked in.
Mets don’t want to be on the hook for extra without the pound of flesh to go with it.
Rangers don’t want to pay extra for salary relief next year and have max decline the player option, and get nothing for the extra cost.
Max wants…. who knows?
seamaholic 2
That’s not an issue. The dollar amount can be be conditional on whether he opts out or not. The leverage is all with the player, so there’s no chance he waives the opt out. What’s probably going on is him demanding the Rangers guarantee another year, or a parting gift when the contract runs out.
GASoxFan
It appears the option IS an issue, and, I can’t blame the rangers for wanting it triggered one way or another.
You want to know if you’re paying for a pure rental, or, for 1+ years.
With an already obscene salary in place, I dont see raising it even higher as a palatable option for either team to assume, although, stranger things have happened.
Baez Caught me Sleeping
this is a bit out of date, Scherzer approved, they are working on financials now.
seamaholic 2
Then he hasn’t approved. There would be no financials to work on if he’s approved.
YankeesBleacherCreature
He can approve yet the Mets can still decline to trade him.
dbdmack
DeGrom told him the trainers in Texas are excellent. I’m very curious how much $alary that the Mets eat on this.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
This is a good move for the Rangers. Bravo.
raisinsss
Not sure how we’re able to conclude that it’s a good move for anyone without knowing the prospects or $ involved….
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
To get a pitcher at his caliber in the midst of a playoff race is a good move. This will separate them from the rest of the teams in the division.
It is good to know who is involved but still a great gamble for the Rangers.
seamaholic 2
You sure he’s “that caliber” anymore? He has to be better than Dane Dunning for it to be an upgrade, even setting aside the money. I have my doubts.
Astros Hot Takes
they better start separating soon @doom because after tonight’s games we’re just one back of them
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
He might be declining this year but the change of scenery could help, especially since he is headed to a winning team. He’s been a gamer his whole career, so a bad 4 months can easily change upon a new team and environment.
It’s worth a gamble for a long postseason run.
DUDDUS
Take White, Foscue and/or Harris but no one else!
ba$eba||F@n21
He has agreed to waive the no trade clause, MLB Network has reported.
meckert
Rangers fans get ready to see alot of home runs sailing out of the park.
DUDDUS
They hit their fair share, it’ll be fine.
reno24
Brock porter was just pulled from his start in single A.
seamaholic 2
He pitched. False alarm.
raisinsss
3.0 (good) ip. Don’t know if that’s consistent with his expected workload…
Ma4170
52 pitches…. Hes been at around 70 pitches lately
titanic struggle
Remember when his arm passed away as a Dodger? Hard pass Nick Krall..
BabeRuthsPiano
Remember when he was 7-0 down the stretch for the Dodgers
acoss13
Max wants another championship run, he’s getting traded.
Ma4170
Since we’re all speculating, looks like Acuna isnt in frisco’s lineup tonight
isolatedpower
Wow. So many layers.
1) what do the Mets get in return? You have to get a blue chipper to go along with Jack Leiter. I know Leiter hasn’t shown much yet but kid’s got nasty stuff.
2) how much do the Mets buy this contract down?
3) is Verlander next and how the heck are they replacing Scherzer and/or Verlander in the rotation next year?
raisinsss
1. Depends on the $
2. Depends on the prospects
3. $ and $
isolatedpower
Luisangel acuña and Jack Leiter would be a good return. Mad Max doesn’t have much left in the tank
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Nope. You don’t need Leiter +. If they pay all of that contract and add in a reliever, maybe Leiter and a top 30 prospect in the org may go to the Mets. We will see, and I may be way off, but I know they aren’t trading Leiter AND a top 100 prospect for sure.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
My man is not walking away from $43 million next year, not after how this year has gone.
Chris G.
Mets are reportedly getting back Acuña’s lil bro Luisangel. He’s the #44 prospect in mlb
raisinsss
I don’t believe you
Chris G.
He’s been scratched from his game and Andy Martino reported that it’s related to this trade. The players have been agreed upon just working out the financial aspects. Not sure if other players are involved as well.
raisinsss
Must be paying allllll the $.
This is good. Very good.
Motor City Beach Bum
Combined with the return for Giolito that bodes well for other rentals.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Hey, I can dig this
Nice to see a different team other than the Yankees or Dodgers
greatgame 2
No sticky stuff=higher ERA
Yanks2
If batters can use pine tar, why shouldn’t pitchers be able to?
GASoxFan
Yanks – different reasons, different effects.
Pine tar gives a competitive advantage to a pitcher, doesn’t do anything for a batter such as hitting with more power or better contact.
Yanks2
Pine tar gives the batter better grip of the baseball bat. It’s like batting gloves except more advantageous
AL B DAMNED
Ronald Acuna Jr younger brother going to Mets?
Chris G.
That’s what Martino is reporting.
isolatedpower
Yes, Luisangel
Yanks2
I like that profile picture lol
isolatedpower
Thanks! I just googled Yankees Jets in Google images. Felt this was great for mobtr and pro football rumors lol
seamaholic 2
That would suggest the Mets bought a higher level prospect. I bet they’re covering not just all of this year but a big chunk of next year’s Scherzer salary. Or else the Rangers are getting someone else too.
larkraxm
One of the things not being discussed is that Scherezer wanted out of NY after his meeting with the GM. Perfect example of why the Mets and Padres spending like idiots doesn’t hurt small market teams. What if there was a cap and instead of signing these two dinosaurs (Verlander and Scherzer) they were in the mix for a guy like Eflin because of a cap and the Rays weren’t able to sign him?? The FA spending spree by knucklehead teams does not hurt the Brewers or Twins.
Astros Hot Takes
100% correct
10centBeerNight
If the return is a top TEX prospect, NYM fans should be thrilled. Won’t make the poor season go down easier, but that organization still has much work to do on the top end of farm. Lot of wild wacky speculation ok the internet, cuz that what the internet does. Believe it when the deal is finalized.
Ma4170
Mets top end was one of the best preseason, but alvarez and baty came up. Their lack of depth is evident, but they have some guys that will be top 100 next year (mauricio is now… parada, tidwell, maybe williams and ramirez). Beyond that… (crickets)
rct
If they actually get Acuña back, I will indeed be thrilled.
AL B DAMNED
Luisangel Acuna back to Mets in Scherzer deal to Rangers
Guyerbassist
I hope he doesn’t opt out then. Isn’t he releated the acuna in Atlanta that’s a stud? Or is he not as highly touted as highly as him?
Flanster
His brother . Not as highly rated as his brother, but a solid prospect
Guyerbassist
Hopefully he doesn’t end up being as good as his brother or this will end up biting us in the ass
DUDDUS
He’ll be ready before Seager and Semiens contracts end so makes sense.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
He was never a Met, so what do you mean back to Mets?
Jdt8312
He means going to the Mets in return for Scherzer. C’mon man. Wasn’t that apparent?
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Back to the Mets, as in Max going to the Rangers and Acuna going back to the Mets. It’s just a manner of speech, not sure why you need to be so obtuse.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I genuinely thought there was a misunderstanding.
iH8PaperStraws
Hopefully Foscue is in the deal. He doesn’t have a path to the MLB in Texas.
AL B DAMNED
Luisangel Acuna back to Mets..means he is going back in the deal, not going back as a former Met!
AL B DAMNED
Deal reportedly ON HOLD FOR NOW!
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I just read on CBS Sports that Acuna is likely going to the Mets in the deal, they didn’t list any other players, and that the Mets are still working on getting Max to waive the NTC.
AL B DAMNED
Rangers could be pivoting towards Verlander instead of Scherzer, maybe.. Same deal in play for Verlander or Scherzer! Batman to Commissioner Manfred! Come in Commissioner!
Simm
Scherzer on top of taking the Mets money is going to give them one more kick in the balls and veto this trade.
seamaholic 2
Would have nothing to do with kicking anyone in the balls, just whether the Rangers are willing to add some $$ to the deal to get him to pick up and move to Dallas for a couple months. It’s just business.
Simm
You mean the Mets not the rangers. If they are trading acuna then the Mets should be paying allllll
revpar35
You are highly under-valuing Scherzer and over-valuing Acuna.
seamaholic 2
Whomever pays it (the CBA says it’s the acquiring team) the hold up whenever a guy with a NTC is traded is how much more money he gets. And you can’t negotiate that until the guy’s current team gives permission, which isn’t until the rest of the trade is finalized. This is just how it goes.
Chris G.
He’s already agreed to it. The hold up now is the financials
Chris G.
Nevermind, looks like the original reports were incorrect
BaseballisLife
Looks like the hold up is not prospects or financial terms between the teams, its money for Scherzer.
Looking like Acuna, Porter, and another player.
DUDDUS
No shot Porter is included. Unless the Mets pay this years salary and next years player option.
User 1104686089
Jon Heyman I think said Acuna is the headliner. If Porter was included I think it would be framed as Porter and Acuna to New York. He is every it as interesting a prospect as Acuna
seamaholic 2
Porter not included. He pitched tonight.
Ma4170
This would be a great return – Acuna is a legit prospect, top 100 with a ton of speed. Mets likely paying a lot of money, which is why there needs to be league approval. I give them credit, this is a good deal for them and their farm.
User 1104686089
Yup, I am fine with this from a Rangers perspective as he is blocked in Texas. He will swing and miss some and will never have the power of his older brother. He does play good defense up the middle and runs like a friggin scared rabbit. Should be fun to watch in NYM
Ma4170
Wonder if this paves the way for McNeil’s exit from NY, at least in the offseason
THEY LIVE!!!
Pending a complete physical including a mental evaluation of Scherzer…
might be on hold for a few days.
DUDDUS
Mark Feinsand- “as of right now the deal is not happening”. Sherzer hasn’t waived the NTC. Maybe it won’t happen?
AL B DAMNED
Scott Boras has probably something to do with it!
Hey Max, Heard there is no State income tax in Texas!
seamaholic 2
But very high sales and property tax. Doesn’t make much difference.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
Just what we needed, more shortstop prospects. Its not like we have top defensive shortstop that is signed for the next 11 years. Its not like 4 of our top prospects would be natural shortstops now (Jett Williams, Mauricio, Acuna, Houck). Congats to Billy Eppler, another blunder as a GM. I dont know how this guy keeps getting job after job after job. Hes made millions off doing absolutly nothing. He destroys franchises. We need STARTING PITCHING and RELIEVERS. They really couldn’t of gotten Jack Leiter and Kumar Rocker for Scherzer? I’d take even Langford for him. We dont need another shortstop
User 1104686089
Acuna has played some CF because if he started with us he was blocked by Seager. We can’t trade Lankford in the same year we drafted him btw
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@chris44 Didnt know that was a rule, my bad then
mookie1
@LFGMets
He’s an elite talent, so if he can play SS, he can play OF, 3B or 2B. I don’t love Eppler either, but it’s a steal to trade a recent FA signing for a top 50 MLB prospect.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@mookie1 i disagree. Its a better than not chance that the Mets are paying atleast half his salary that hes owed. Is that really worth Acuna? I disagree unless he comes with Leiter, Rocker, or Brock Porter
juanc-2
Is the money coming out of your pocket? Will it somehow hamper Cohens spending in the off-season?
mookie1
@LFGMets
The money doesn’t matter, it’s a sunk cost, and Cohen has tons of it. Which player will help the Mets win more games in 2024 and beyond? Scherzer or Acuna? Also, as others have pointed out, when you draft and trade for minor leaguers, you always go with best available.
raisinsss
Drew Smith moving to rotation.
How does that make you feel?
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@raisinsss there is a better chance of Drew Smith striking out the side than there is him ever making anyones starting rotation ever
YankeesBleacherCreature
You trade for talent, not positions of need in the minors. Talent can always be flipped later.
jvent
The Mets don’t need SS’s jeez they need pitching prospects and OF prospects
Perksy
They can get that when they trade, Cahna, Pham, and Verlander.
mgomrjsurf
Also others to if McNeil,Nimmo were to get moved.
RockinRobin
Just cuz they are SS in the minors doesn’t mean they would play there in the majors. Acuña has played 82 games at 2B (and 200 at SS). Maybe he moves to the OF..
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
This irritates me souch. He’s already not earning the contract, they found a top contender to send him to for another playoff run, and even then he’s still holding the Mets hostage. I know it’s the Mets fault for signing the contract, but he’s still a P.O.S. person and I hope he has to retire sooner than later. I’m over his childish behavior and selfish b.s.
GASoxFan
He’s just a guy exercising the rights he bargained for.
You want to fault someone, fault the Mets for offering the no trade, option, and money to start with.
seamaholic 2
He’s not holding the Mets hostage, he’s holding the Rangers hostage. This is the whole reason guys want no-trade clauses.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
If you think his 4.00 ERA is going to save their season, we have a lot more to talk about than who he’s holding hostage. He’s not holding the Rangers hostage because there are other options and better options.
He’s holding the Mets hostage because they are trying to find him a good landing spot, working out the financial issues with a deal so dramatically under water. All to hopefully save a little bit of money in the interum while they reshuffle the deck.
The people benefitting the most are Scherzer and the Mets, he’s get a playoff team and keeps making a fortune to play a game. The Mets save some money and recoup a prospect. He doesn’t need to negotiate for a million dolars to waive his clause.
Now, Scherzer is well within his rights to ask for compensation to waive his no trade clause, but he’s a jerk for doing that. His performance is literally a major factor in why they weren’t a more competitive team. He was paid to be an ace, not a #3 or #4.
Personally, if I was the Mets, I’d tell him that either you do the deal and shut your mouth or I’ll make sure if you opt into next season,the first time you struggle, I’ll option you to AAA.
The narrative being you’ll either opt out and lose the remaining money or finish your career in AAA, if you aren’t making a meaningful contribution to the success of this team.
He may have the right to hold them over a barrel, but that roght goes both ways in business. They’re paying him and as such have a right to deploy him in the way they feel best helps their team.
Churchill’s Pancakes
They can’t option him to AAA. It’s a major league contract. The only minor leagues he can be sent to is for rehab assignments.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Yes they can, he can decline the option, but would lose the remainder of the money on his contract. Don’t believe me, look up Kei Igawa, Scott Kingery, etc. The process is that the team options them to the minors, they then can decline the option because of service time and become a free agent, they would then lose the remainder of their money left on their contract, as part of the optioning process, they must clear waivers, but nobody would take on that contract, so it’s a formality.
Read below….
Right to Refuse Outright Assignment or Elect Free-Agency if Outrighted
Per Article XIX-A of the CBA, any player on an MLB 40-man roster who has accrued at least five years of MLB Service Time (as well as an international player with Article XIX-A contractual rights) has the right to refuse an Outright Assignment to the minors, or the player can elect to be a free-agent immediately upon being outrighted, or he can accept the Outright Assignment and defer his option to elect free-agency until after the conclusion of the MLB regular season.
However, an Article XIX-A player who accepts an Outright Assignment and defers his option to elect free-agency until after the conclusion of the MLB regular season forfeits his right to elect free-agency (as an Article XIX-A minor league free-agent) if he is added back to an MLB 40-man roster prior to the conclusion of the MLB regular season.
If a player with Article XIX-A rights refuses an Outright Assignment but does not elect free-agency, the club must either retain the player on the club’s MLB Reserve List (40-man roster), trade the player, or give the player his unconditional release.
If a player with Article XIX-A rights does not refuse an Outright Assignment but then elects to be a free-agent immediately after being outrighted, his contract is terminated and he receives no termination pay. But if the player accepts the Outright Assignment and defers his right to be a free-agent until the conclusion of the MLB regular season, the player continues to get paid, receiving the balance of his salary through to the end of the season. And then if the outrighted player is not subsequently added back to an MLB 40-man roster prior to the conclusion of the MLB regular season, the player can elect free-agency anytime beginning on the day after the conclusion of the MLB regular season through October 15th.
Churchill’s Pancakes
Maybe I used poor phrasing but my point is the same, they can’t send him to AAA because he won’t go. He won’t elect FA if they DFA him and releasing the player does not absolve the team from paying the contract. Kingery is still being paid the contract he signed. That money goes against they CBT. He is in the minors because no team wanted him at league minimum.
Yanks2
I’m not too familiar with the National League or teams that aren’t the Yankees. Just curious, how is Madmax selfish and childish?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
$130M/3 yr deal, he’s going to a top 5 AL team and division leader, yet he holds up the trade to get something for them trading him to a contender to let him potentially play in October. He should take the win as a way overpaid 4.17 ERA 39 y.o. and go to the other team without compensation for waiving the no-trade clause. Also what player says to the press they need to have a discussion with the front office about the direction of the team. He should focus on pitching instead of running the club, maybe he won’t suck so much!
GASoxFan
Aside from being entitled to the benefits of the bargain he made, once scherzer is traded he gets to arrange alternate housing and relocate to a new in-season home, with all the complications that brings.
That’s not free.
So, it’s fair to say he makes a bunch of cash. It’s fair to say he gets a shot at playing on a contender. But, he also earned the right to decide what he is willing to give up and/or pay above and beyond what he expected to in the process.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Yeah, but I guess $43M eases the concerns. None of that argument means anything. He is lucky that his old team the Mets were willing to work through the headache of getting him to a contender, so he with only a couple years left in his career could chance one more championship. They could’ve just done nothing and let him spend this year watching October baseball from the couch and maybe even next year as well. If you don’t think the Mets went out of their way to help him land with a contender/get rid of him, you’re not paying attention.
This is the point… He has the right to do all that you say, but he’s still a jerk. People put out candy at Halloween and then put a sign that says “please take one”, some greedy kid comes along and dumps the whole thing in his bucket and walks down the street without a care in the world, most of the time proud of themselves. The point is ethics versus consequence. We all know you can take the whole bowl of candy, but the right thing to do is take one, so every kids gets some. However, there’s always one kid that needs to take every last piece and that greedy kid is Max Scherzer.
Just because he has leverage doesn’t mean he had to use it, he could’ve realized that his contract already screwed the team because he wasn’t living up to it and worse they had to take on money to get rid of him, the fans missed the playoffs because he failed to live up to his contract and pitch to the value of the deal, he let down his team because his inability to pitch to the level he was expected to produce meant other players had to compensate for his lack of performance. Yet, he had to drag out the process long enough to get $1M more?
He’s going to lose 1/2 of it to taxes anyways, so what is the point? To prove he had a right to do it? We know that! To prove he could do it, despite being an overpaid, under-performing has-been? We know that too! How about he has a little humility and says, “I’m sorry I didn’t live up to my contract this year, I should’ve been better, but I’m glad the Mets worked to find me another team with a chance at the postseason, and I appreciate what the team did to get me this opportunity!” That last part never happened, because he lacks character, something that isn’t part of the contract, but which definitely defines him as a person.
I guess where we disagree is you are debating his entitlement to do what he did, while I’m debating the ethics of what he did. Nobody disagrees with you that it was his right to do it, but ethically, it makes him look bad for doing it because he could’ve gone to Texas without forcing the extra compensation.
By the way, I’m the first one to talk about the hassles that professional athletes deal with and it sucks being inconvenienced, but he could find a condo in Texas and deal with the New York crap in the offseason, it’s two months away, maybe three if he’s lucky. None of that really matters because the money he makes factors in the inconvenience of celebrity, moving around the country, constant travel for work, and being pushed-and-pulled by the media for interviews and comments.
Nobody said he had to be a professional athlete, he could’ve been a school teacher and made $50K and had his summers free to travel in an RV or worked in a factory and dreamed of the day he made it into management and he could be the Denali version of the GMC Yukon he has been dreaming about buying when he refinances his house. I’m trying to say this a bunch of different ways, so the point lands, but the takeaway is that ethics is knowing when you’re still owed something and knowing when you’ve overstayed your welcome. He clearly does not understand that distinction.
capnfatback
Wow, I’m sorry Hall-of-Fame pitcher Max Scherzer gave you that swirlie or whatever. It’s clear it’s still gnawing at you.
Deleted Userr
Why even bother talking to the Rangers about him if they don’t know if he will waive his NTC? I feel like asking him if he’ll accept a trade should be the first step.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
There are 29 teams to choose from, but only 2 outcomes for the player to choose from. Also, there is way more uncertainty with who can be traded, and with how much cash. They can just bribe him a little to get it done, but the other team is harder to work with.
seamaholic 2
That’s not the purpose of no trade clauses. They exist purely for players to extract more money (or another year) out of an acquiring team. So Scherzer doesn’t know if he’ll approve the deal or not until he’s negotiated with the Rangers. When a player has a partial no-trade clause, he lists teams he WANTS to be traded to in addition to the ones he doesn’t. NTC’s are sort of like trade kickers by another name..
Deleted Userr
No, some players use it to block trades entirely and others use it to control WHO they get traded to. Players with limited NTC’s usually block the teams they feel are most likely to try and trade for them. Like, they orpbsbly aren’t going to put a division rival or a rebuilding team on their list because those teams aren’t going to trade for them anyway.
Deleted Userr
@seamaholic 2 Yes it is the purpose of no-trade clauses. Eduardo Rodriguez just used his to block a trade to the Dodgers, for instance.
10centBeerNight
Next update with say “Feisand overruled by Rosenthal, Olney, Martino, Wakeman & Howe”. We have entered the clickbait zone, fellas
mgomrjsurf
But none of ESPN Insiders are reporting this Trade yet. Hopefully we do have some Trades tonight,
RockinRobin
Not a done deal yet. For Max, not sure why he wouldn’t want to go to Texas. He goes to a first place team and teams up with Maddux again. What’s not to like?
King of Cards
Yeah it’s not enough he’s making 43 million he isn’t earning. Chase more dollars!!!
LordD99
Waiving an NTC often requires a cash incentive. Scherzer knows the richest owner in sports can toss in a few more dollars.
Highwaymenace
Signing big time free agents and then trading them for top prospects is a good move for a team with the money to do so. Liking cohen so far, goes for the win but is able to recognize reality and treat each season independently. Such a far cry from the previous owner.
King of Cards
Yeah hard not to like this as a fan. This ain’t no rebuild its a reload.
Tigersin2050
Scherzer has performed worse than Verlander this season, but he would be re-uniting with Mike Maddux, the pitching coach he had with Washington where he won two Cy Young Awards and a World Series.
THEY LIVE!!!
7:45pm: Feinsand relays that Scherzer has not yet waived his no-trade clause.
Maybe Scherzer wants to go an NL team like the Dodgers?
10centBeerNight
Leverage. Posturing. He and his agent are shrewd. I’d bet it’s worked out, but certainly could the quality of return to NYM
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
How dumb is this fool for trying to say he wants to keep his option to opt out? The Rangers can just keep him for cheaper next year and see him as a rental next year. I don’t see the point of this mastering. If he doesn’t opt out, the Mets can conditionally offer 30 MM for Acuna hypothetically. How hard can it be for a Princeton guy to figure this out??
seamaholic 2
Maybe he hates Dallas. Plenty of people do (including, in my experience, a fair number who live there).
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
He doesn’t have to live there. I get where you are going, but I remember those 1 hour rides to college that were 3 miles (from campus to home), and I can assure you there are countless issues with urban areas, too.
desertbull
What do the Rangers see in washed up Max? He has collapsed the last 3 years in September/October and will likely be average at best.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Well, ever since Chris Young took over he seems to think throwing ridiculous money at ex-Mets pitchers is a good team building plan. I’m not sure people realize how close the Rangers are to collapsing right out of the playoff picture. The Rangers team ERA for the month of July was 5.69, the Angels 5.19, the Athletics 5.11, the Astros 4.74, while the Mariners was 3.51 for comparison. For offense, the Rangers combination of hitting, baserunning, and defense has added up in July to a 5.5 WAR total. Seattle has a 4.6 WAR over the same time, the Angels a 3.8 WAR total, the Astros a 3.1 WAR total, and the Athletics a 1.9 WAR total. We know why the A’s suck. We can see why the Angels will miss the playoffs, and why the Astros aren’t the Al favorites they once were, but the difference between what the Mariners were at the start of the season and what they are now means the Rangers are going to have to bounce back quickly or their current 4-6 record over the last 10 games might be a sign of things to come with Seager and Heim injured.
Aside from Eovaldi, their rotation is garbage and to be clear Eovaldi has been in the league 12 years and has only made more than 22 starts in three seasons (’14, ’15, and ’21), his ERA those years was 4.37, 4,20, and 3.75. Most importantly, he has never pitched more than 199.2 IP in a season. He’s only had three years where he threw more than 124.2 IP and that was 199.2 IP (2014), 154.1 (2015) and 182.1 (2021). His career ERA is 4.03. There is nothing in his history to believe that Eovaldi can sustain his current level of success, there’s also nothing in his history that shows he is durable, or won’t bend to fatigue as he starts to blow through innings totals and numbers of starts that he is not accustomed to throwing. Jon Gray is doing fine, but he’s a #3 at best, while Perez and Heaney are the #4 and #5, but pitch like long relievers thrust into a spot start. Their offense was never as good as people thought it was in the beginning of the season and it is definitely not good enough to make up for their rotation and bullpen.
I’ve seen better teams than the Ranger collapse in the dog days of August and September, and I don’t think Scherzer is enough to prevent that from happening. They need two more #2 or better starters, one more high-leverage reliever, and an outfielder. Even then, the numbers on the back of their bubble gum cards say their offense is going to crater sooner-than-later. I mean, what’s less likely to happen, J-Rod stays below a .750 OPS the rest of the year or Seager posts an OPS over .950, which he hasn’t done since his cup of coffee in the majors over 27 games back in 2015 when he was 21 years old. My point is that Seager has an OPS .129 higher than his best OPS in a season with 400 PAs or more. Garcia has an OPS .083 better than his best season, Heim has an OPS .119 points higher than his best season, Jankowski .075 points better than his best season, Taveras .093 points better than his best season, while Jung, Duran, and Smith all are around .150 points higher than their previous season. The only guys playing to their career levels are Lowe, Semien, Miller, and Garver. That’s a whole lot of career years and outliers propping up a crappy pitching staff.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Took like minites, not even days to be proven roght about Eovaldi. They have one heck of a rotstion on the Dal with DeGrom, Eovaldi, and Odorizzi.
King of Cards
He won’t drop the opt out? He’s making 43 million and having a bad year come on lol.
This guy is too much.
CardsFan57
So the Rangers won’t trade unless they get to pay $43 million next year for a pitcher who has been league average this year. That same pitcher will torpedo the deal rather than waive an opt out he’s never going to take. Wow.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Max has earned his contractual rights. It sounds like the Rangers want reassurances that he’s playing for them next year bc they will also be including prospects for the trade. Mets will just send more money for them. This may take until Monday to finalize if it does.
seamaholic 2
Mets are paying most of it.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Yep. $35MM while the Rangers will only pay $22.5MM for this year and next.
Ma4170
As a met fan im happy texas is paying 22.5M next year. Good for both teams
aragon
Texas cbeapos!
raisinsss
Odds that he opts out next year… 50-1?
He can’t seriously be worried about that. Pure posturing.
seamaholic 2
Sure he can. If he pitches well the last two months into the playoffs, and he doesn’t like Dallas, he might easily opt out and end his career somewhere he wants to be. The lost dollars won’t concern him much.
raisinsss
Yep. I’m putting the odds of a hypothetical combo of pitching like 2019 Scherzer and dislike of playing there at 50-1.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
That would be two no-hitters, a couple more complete games with a shutout and an ERA around 1.50 to get someone to offer a 40 year old coming off a 4.00 ERA at the end of July, just the year before anything close to what he’s going to make in 2024. He’s not sniffing $30M in free agency, let alone $43M.
Motor City Beach Bum
Good. Texas can pivot and trade those prospects to the Tigers instead!
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Give me those fresh, young relievers, and feed me Skubal. Take, Duran, Porter/Leiter, and Harris.
Motor City Beach Bum
Moot point now. Another big return on a pitcher.
King of Cards
Why would the Rangers want to guarantee the option? That I don’t understand. If the Mets are paying some I am sure that could be worked out on the 1 in 1000 chance he actually does opt out.
seamaholic 2
Opt outs are always good for the player, bad for the team. Always, no exceptions.
filihok
Wrong.
People who say this don’t understand negotiations.
Let’s start with the idea that optouts are good for the player. They are! Thus, they have value to the player. Since, they have value to the player, the team should get something in return for including the optout.
Let’s say that a team and player are close to a (contract that is mathematically easy) 5 year $100 million contract. $20 million per year.
The player asks for an optout after year 3. Again, that optout has value.
So, it’s not going to be 5 years $100 million with an opt out. It’s going to be 5 years and $90 million (or whatever( with an optout. The player gets the optout, and the team gets $2 million (or whatever) less per season.
Thus, the optout has value for the team as well, because they pay the payer less by including it. .
THEY LIVE!!!
My gut tells me Scherzer doesn’t want to be traded… at least not before Verlander hoping for a better place to land, either LA or Atlanta??
DarkSide830
Just Acuña?
seamaholic 2
Not sure, but it’s reported the Mets are paying a ton of the salary, so maybe there’s another prospect involved.
DarkSide830
I mean, gotta be, right?
mgomrjsurf
Good it’s done but no MLB Network to watch coverage and MLB APP no coverage and yes more in deal we can hope,
Hurricane Sandy
I can’t even begin to describe to you how much I hate Max Scherzer lol. The fans absolutely hate him at this point, but he would rather stick around and get booed for the rest of his home games instead of join a contender and lock in the money that he’s never going to get from anyone else because he SUCKS! This guy is such a D-bag. Talk about being in it only for yourself. I can’t believe any other team in the league actually wants this turd on their team. He won’t be happy until the Mets are paying him to literally sit at home, which I don’t doubt that they would do at some point.
Yanks2
He’s arguably one of the best pitchers in the last decade. I don’t mean to sound like a typical troll on here but I doubt you’ve accomplished even 1% of what Scherzer had accomplished. You’re clearly jealous trash talking a future HOF pitcher because you have nothing better to do
raisinsss
@Yanks2
This comment says more about you than anyone else.
Hurricane Sandy
Yes, dude lol obviously I have nothing better to do just like everyone else that’s here commenting on the story right now. As a Mets fan, I am very displeased that Max Scherzer is still on this team. I really wanted him gone. He has come here and done absolutely nothing for us. He is over paid, he has a tremendous ego, and he actually hates the fans enough that he would like to pitch terribly in front of them into his 40s instead of contending on another team for top dollar. Remember, dude, I am a fan, I am not a baseball player. As a fan, why should anybody give one flying turd about Max Scherzer‘s Hall of Fame career except if you’re a Nationals fan when he actually did something for them. He has done nothing for us except embarrass us and bring us misery. The least you can do for us is go away. That is all. I am married with two kids and I have a job, I am satisfied with my life. I don’t need to have accomplished what Max Scherzer has accomplished lol. Is that how you judge everyone in your life?
Hurricane Sandy
It’s not just that he’s been bad. Other people have been bad like Jason Bay etc. it’s just that Max Scherzer is arguably THE reason we have flamed out so terribly since the second half of last year. To me, it would reflect more pathetically on me if I woke up every morning, saying hey that Max Scherzer sure has had a darn good career! knowing that he really doesn’t care about Mets fans or the Mets. He only cares about his money that is all. No need to hero worship troll players.
raisinsss
Can’t pin it all on one person.
I’d say maybe 5 of the 25 guys on the roster met or exceeded expectations.
Hurricane Sandy
To be honest with you, I More think that a lot of the guys over performed last year as opposed to disappointed this year, but in Scherzer’s case, you can ask absolutely say that he is a huge disappointment. He’s literally the head of the players union and demanding to get paid top dollar and comes here and completely [poops] the bed. He should be embarrassed, but he has too much pride for that.
raisinsss
Maybe.
I see Alvarez, senga, nimmo, robertson, Pham, and to a lesser extent alonso, lindor, and verlander (recently) as having performed near standard.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
It’s a hell of a lot of money they threw at him to be unwaveringly great no matter what. The greater the contract, the more expectation that your contributions be significant and frequent towards the ultimate goal of winning games. I get he’s human, but he demanded that money and he sure as heck didn’t sit down at the table to negotiate the deal and said, I’ll give you one really really good year, one not so good year, and we’ll play the third season by ear! He went in promising excellence and should be held to that standard. As the saying goes, “heavy is the head that wears the crown.”
That contract was a beacon of promise to the city, the fans, the players, and the organization in general that he was going to perform exceptionally for the next three years. He didn’t, it wasn’t terrible, but it sure as heck wasn’t close to earning the contract he was getting paid. Comparing his failures to the resources that were used to acquire him through free agency, his failure has to be considered the most egregious.
I mean the Mariners had expectations for Kelenic the last couple years and he was anything but the player they expected, but his failures or lack of success at times didn’t prevent them from winning 90 games in back-to-back seasons, but that’s because he was $600K of a $120M+ payroll. As opposed to Scherzer being $43M of a $340 million dollar payroll, meaning he was 11% of the payroll and that carries extra expectations, regardless of how unfair that might seem.
filihok
I don’t know if they are jealous.
Pretty immature though.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
What makes you feel you need to defend him? Does he have naked pictures of you? We are entitled to our opinion and just because something is a certain way, doesn’t mean we have to agree with it or how it plays out for the people involved. Your argument about what “Hurricane Sandy” has done in their lifetime is irrelevant and quite honestly a poor excuse for a comment, if this was “Around The Horn”, you’d get a buzzer and silenced for 10 seconds for that crap. There is nothing remotely similar to jealousy when talking about how he handled this situation. It is not a binary choice.
The options are not, he is a future HOF Pitcher, a wonderful human being, and a shrewd negotiator or he’s a bad pitcher, a horrible person, and a jerk the Mets wish they never signed. Those are not the two choices. I and Hurricane Sandy both see him pretty similarly and while I can only glean from his writing what he feels currently about his situation, I would imagine any rational baseball fan would surmise that he is a great pitcher and most likely going to be inducted in the Hall of Fame when his career is over. That being said, if your idea of value personally and socially as a person is determined by pitching stats, box scores, and accomplishments playing baseball, you really don’t understand what matters in life.
His accomplishments are notable, but he didn’t solve world hunger, find a way to grow crops of food in a desert, create world peace, find a cure for cancer, or solve any of a number of other epidemics facing society like homelessness, opioid of fentanyl deaths/addiction, or human trafficking? No. I love baseball more than just about anyone I have ever met, but get some perspective, seriously. Jealousy and disapproval of someone’s actions are not related in the least. If anything, you giving him a pass on his behavior because of being a fanboy for his career is an indictment of your character as well, without even pointing out your attitude on his comment compared to the fanbase you represent. and the abhorrent way they act towards athletes.
Your attacks weren’t “trolling”, they were merely more petty. misguided, and hypocritical as a Yankee fan than anything else. The only truth is that Scherzer was an excellent pitcher. Also true is that there is an expiration on that because time catches up to all of us. He’s no longer great, sometimes good, but most of the times more average than anything else. He is probably going to be elected into the hall of fame, it may take a few tries because there are a number of writers who also thinks he’s a jerk, but I’m confident he’ll get there. I’m also confident that I will never take time to listen to his speech or tune into another thing he says once his career is over. I won’t be the only one who has or will say that, I guarantee you and it’s not due to jealously or his greatness casting a shadow over my life. Everything Hurricane Sandy said above is justifiable and I agree as well with their opinion, even as a Mariners fan with no vested interest other than excitement that his acquisition means less resources (prospects and money) to land better players who might actually help the Rangers win.
Hurricane Sandy
What you saw me post yesterday was just raw, sports-fueled emotion lol. I know Scherzer’s bottom-line numbers haven’t looked terrible, but EVERY time we’ve needed him to step up in a big spot he gets POUNDED. It was brutal to experience. Listen, of course Scherzer’s a terrific pitcher over the course of his career, I would never deny that, and in retrospect yeah I went a little nuts perhaps, but nobody likes these mercenary free agent athletes that demand respect and money but don’t perform. The NBA is filled with them and unwatchable for that reason. At this point, I found Max Scherzer unwatchable because I saw him as an overpaid blowhard who has a huge hand in killing 2 seasons but still wants to be treated the same as if he were leading the Nationals. It doesn’t work like that, he was a terrible Met and I had enough. The final straw was when he was holding the trade up over NOT wanting a $43 million guarantee- as if he’s even worth that. Sometimes as fans, we have to send messages to our franchises and the players to push them in a certain direction, and that’s all I was doing. I know lot of people don’t come to this website for that kind of experience, and find it distasteful. But you can just scroll past the comments you don’t like. Good day all.
Simm
Rangers got hosed in this deal, no money coming for next year?
Well done Mets.
seamaholic 2
If that’s true then yes, the Rangers got majorly hosed. That’s a bad, bad deal, albeit one with a high upside if somehow Max finds his form from last year. Maybe Texas thinks they can fix something.
SODOMOJO
Acuna brothers both playing in the NL East
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I’m sure they like the older brother and hope he might be a fraction of that when he finishes developing as a player, it also might help with enticing Acuna to come to the Mets as a free agent when his contract is over. It might be early to think about it now, but with the way he’s playing, it might not be early enough.
Fred McGriff HR
Poor LuisAngel Acuna, being traded to the Mets.
getrealgone2
oh please. Give me a break you bozo. Braves front office wasn’t sitting there with guns held on Acuna to sign that contract.
ilikebaseball 2
Says the guy who thinks multimillionaires are being exploited. Don’t you have a kids birthday party to work?
flamingbagofpoop
It’s sad how jealous you are of rich people.
filihok
Of course multimillionaires can be exploited
This StephCurry guy does seem like a jackass, though.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
No, he tried, but he can’t get his foot in the door with that business!
Bfree
Yes because the rangers are such a great historical franchise.
ilikebaseball 2
Clown comment. No one forces anyone to sign for 100 million guaranteed.
juanc-2
Harris, Strider, Murphy, Olsen, and Riley are from third world countries?
filihok
Well…
1) “first world” and “third world” is an outdated concept
2) The United States in many ways (wealth distribution being one of the biggest) is similar to those types of countries, yes,
GASoxFan
If Cohen had the young talent worth extending the ways that the braves have, and ran an organization those players wanted to stick around in, you can bet he would.
So would all 29 other owners, to the extent they could. Except maybe Nutting. He probably doesn’t care enough.
Fred McGriff HR
StephCurryRetiresWith8Rings
What country is Acuna’s brother from?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Venezuela, the second biggest oil producing nation in the world and one of the richest countries in the world as well until Chavez and Maduro took over and turned it into literally the worst combination of North Korea, Cuba, and Mexico.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
He’ll be making $5M in his pre-arb years there, so I’m sure he’s fine with it.
(sarcasm)
DUDDUS
If it’s just Acuna going back then it’s hard not to be excited about this. The guys basically Giolito this year
seamaholic 2
Should be noted that Acuna is rated as high as he is mostly because of his age (21 in AA). And to be fair, also because of who his brother is. Sometimes guys who blow through the minors at a very young age and generate lots of attention hit a wall. It happens pretty often, and maybe Texas doesn’t think as highly of Acuna as the public prospect boards.
Sunday Lasagna
@seamaholic 2 the brother factor is interesting. The Dodgers once had these Martinez brothers. The older brother was tall, more of a classic pitchers build and had early success, the younger brother was short, not athletically built, and was sent to the Expos in a trade before he had a chance to prosper……..never know on these brothers.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
J.D. has a brother? Who?? Seriously though, Ramon was no slouch, 25.9 bWAR, 135 wins career, and a 3.67 ERA, but 6’4, 165 lbs. is hardly the ideal pitchers frame. I mean I guess with all the blow they were doing in the ’80s and ’90s, it was more the norm for pitchers back then, but I’d say anything less that 190 to 200 lbs. regardless of height is undersized by baseball perspective.
Deleted Userr
Mets have to pay $36.5m of the remaining money owed to Scherzer to make this fair. Unless he opts out.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
That’s very close to true. 43.3 million next year and 14-15 ish this year in a third of a season. And reports are the Mets pay it down to 22.5 MM
Sunday Lasagna
By Sept 1, Mets and Padres will be over .500 and the Reds, Marlins & Diamondbacks will be under .500 It’s inevitable for the Reds, Marlins and Diamondbacks to follow in the Pirates footsteps. Without Scherzer and Robertson the Mets are still a better than .500 team in terms of talent, as are the Pads.
Biggie22
The pirates played really well for 3-4 weeks & then crashed…. All the other teams you’ve mentioned have played consistently well for 3-4 months…. Not remotely the same situation…
Sunday Lasagna
It’s inevitable. The Reds, Marlins and Diamondacks will go under .500
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Dude, come on, Pirates, crashed, Clemente, reel it in buddy! How about before they slowed down, lost ground, or even started to regress to their normal pursuit of the top draft pick! I’d say crashed in general is probably a poor choice of vernacular when talking about baseball players.
squishy
Say what you about how he’s played this year but this feels like a really good bold move from the Rangers front office.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
So it’s a straight up Scherzer for Luisangel Acuna?
seamaholic 2
Scherzer and a large shipping container of cash, yeah.
raisinsss
Not as large as it could have been…
jonnymac2for1
Terrible trade by the Rangers.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Texas is supposedly only paying 22.5 million over 1.333 seasons, which is around 17 million dollars AAV. This is not much for a guy with potential. Acuna had no place in Texas anyways.
Ma4170
With Max’s current numbers he’d make more than $17M so thats good value for them
desertbull
Max is done. He was done 3 years ago when he completely ran out of gas in the post season with the Dodgers
ilikebaseball 2
Drama queens always exaggerate. Today is the 2 year anniversary of Dodgers getting Max and Trea.
TheFuzzofKing
Forget Kershaw, Scherzer is the biggest playoff jinx in the league.
Watch that game with a bucket in your lap, pal.
StupendousYappi
As I predicted months ago the Mets aren’t going nowhere. Go back and check the posts many of the people on this site made fun of me for saying it. Well who’s laughing now?
raisinsss
We’re laughing at you, not with you.
Sunday Lasagna
Mets will be over .500 by Sept 1
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Getting rid of Scherzer is probably just what the team needed. Now if only they could find someone to pitch league average to replace him.
meckert
Yay Nostradamus!
Moneyballer
Mets paying a lot of max’s remaining contract. Acuna is a good pickup, he’s been raking down on the farm. I give the mets a B+ and the Rangers a B-
raisinsss
.830 ops, solid d, fast, premium ss position, and -3.5 age diff at AA
Good get for a declining 2.5 war grandpa and cash.
TheFuzzofKing
I admire what Steve Cohen did over the winter and I admire what he did tonight.
I hope my team starts indiscriminately buying big free agents and then buying great prospects when the big free agents don’t work out.
R.D.
As a braves fan this is worst case scenario. Horrible trade by the rangers for ol “dead arm” scherzer
wifflemeister
Texas will rue the day that they gave up the younger Acuna for an aging pitcher
10centBeerNight
If you are a NYM fan, you should be thrilled with this return. Yes it doesn’t take the sting away from the poor season. But these years happen to every team once in a while – where everything seems to not work out. NYM get a strong prospect. TEX gets that much more powerful in their quest for a ring
Camden453
Doubtful Scherzer opts out of $43 million. He will not get close to that on the open market
And once he sees how loaded the Rangers are with talent he’ll want to stick with it
filihok
That’s not the entire calculation he had to make, though.
The calculation he had to make was more along the lines of
1) $43 million in 2024+expected earnings in 2025 – ?????, while factoring in the risk of injury in 2023 or 2024 which could completely ruin any possibility of future earnings.
2) Opting out and signing a deal for 2024 though ????. In which case he’d have less chance of getting injured, since he’d just have to stay healthy for the rest of this season before signing his next contract.
It’s entire possible that he could have opted out after 2023 and taken a contract that paid him less that $43 million in 2024 and still come out ahead of taking the $43 million nexst year.
SirPartyAnimal
Booo!!!! Hisss!!! Let’s hope he sucks because he’s old. -All AL West opponents.
flamingbagofpoop
Not being able to cheat anymore has hurt him as well.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
This is probably some sneaky marketing ploy where they will hand out some AARP sponsored two player bobblehead with Scherzer and DeGrom on it!
I feel worse for DeGrom who though he had finally been rid of Scherzer once and for all when he signed with Texas.
rct
As a Mets fan, the difference between Cohen and the Wilpons is night and day. Cohen is willing to eat a lot of money to bring back a premium prospect. The Wilpons would never have done that. They would have included a good prospect of their own just to shed the contract.
filihok
Those are both viable strategies and they both have their place.
It’s all about valuation (well, not ALL about valuation, is also about budgets).
The Mets could have not spent the $35 million and given him up for a nothing prospect (maybe). In that case they’d have one less prospect, but 35 million extra dollars.
As someone noted upthread, 50 FV prospects have an expected value of around $30 million. If that were exactly true, the Mets would have been better served to not pay the money since 35 > 30. Of course, different people can value players differently.
Jesse Chavez enthusiast
Wow, the rangers got boned big time. It will be fun to see two Acunas in the NL East though!
CardsFan57
This makes much more sense with the Mets sending significant cash.
stroh
Good trade for both teams. Acuna is the get for the Mets. Rangers better with Scherzer but win trade only if he takes them to the promised land. If not Mets win trade.
YankeesBleacherCreature
They will have him next season again in deGrom’s place.
stroh
Yeah but no guarantee Texas will have their entire lineup having career years next year. They are doing this to strike while the iron is hot. Next year is next year, things change
Bfree
Exactly look at how one year changed for Mets
brooklyn62
Yeah,so the Scherzer trade has some buzz to it. When are the Mets going to get real and get a deal done for Vogelslug?
THEY LIVE!!!
Heyman now reporting the deal is finalized… OK
stymeedone
Appearing that way. Not much excess value in Max, no matter how much of the salary being paid. One solid prospect seems fair.
catojr
Paying 36 million of contract. Should have got one more prospect (SP).
filihok
Then, they would have had to pay down more of the contract.
Or take on a lessor hitting prospect.
Domingo111
Getting a top100 prospect for scherzer is pretty good. Acuna is risky and could bust but he has big tools and could be a star. That is what the Mets need, they can always buy an average player but a real star who is cost controlled would help them a lot.
JackStrawb
He doesn’t have star stuff at a 50 FV, but he’s a very good prospect. A hitting prospect in his tier averages out to a worth of about $28m in surplus value to the team that controls him.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Remember, it’s not Ronald you are getting.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
MLBTR should do a poll: Should Texas release Pérez, move him to the bullpen, or demote him to the minor leagues until he learns to pitch and not throw batting practice on 0-2 counts? He may be the dumbest human being to play in MLB.
Guyerbassist
This made me laugh so hard but it’s so true. I don’t trust any of this rotstion. I’m hoping a change of scenery does max some good
BaseballisLife
Scherzer would not waive his opt out option so the Mets had to send more money and got just one prospect instead of two from what I understand.
That tells me Scherzer WILL opt out at the end of the season.
toptimrubies
The article says he is opting in.
YankeesBleacherCreature
He’s already opted-in for ’24 with the Rangers.
Ma4170
More likely mcneil im thinking… it would be a sell low though so maybe not
ArianaGrandSlam
so he’d rather make 50MM over two years from next year than just 43MM next year?
Ma4170
Scherzer did bring back a top 100 after so many said he wouldnt. Lets face it, hes not nearly as bad as some are saying. K-BB over 4, 12.9% swinging strike rate, 3.82 siera.. numbers and experience wise, he’s a big upgrade over perez dunning and heaney.
flamingbagofpoop
No. Scherzer + $35+m brought back a top 100 prospect.
“Since the Mets are paying down all but $22.5MM, that means they’re eating more than $35MM in this deal.”
catojr
exactly should have got 2 prospects Acuna and SP.
filihok
Why? Based on what?
Everyone values players differently and those values are subjective, but, using MLB Trade Values, this deal is almost perfectly equal.
Ma4170
Of course they had to pay down some of the salary… even then, people didnt think he would bring back that much
Lot of revisionist history on this site sometimes
flamingbagofpoop
Some? It’s more than half.
filihok
“Scherzer + $35+m brought back a top 100 prospect.”
That’s a pretty misleading way to look at it The Rangers don’t get the $35 million to go buy NFTs, or whatever, with.
Of course, every player is more valuable if they are paid less, and less valuable if they are paid more.
If Acuna had been a free agent, and teams were allowed to bid freely on him, he would have a higher salary and be worth less in trade.
Every player’s value is dependent on 1) their skill, 2 their contract cost. Scherzer is no different.
I mean, suppose the Rangers turned around tomorrow and decided to trade Scherzer. They should be able to get a top 100 prospect without adding $35 million, right?
So, yeah, Scherzer is worth a top 100 prospect. Scherzer and his contract were not. Schezer and his contract now are.
flamingbagofpoop
You don’t trade for a player, you trade for a player’s contract. It’s only misleading if you somehow don’t understand that.
filihok
That was my point
A p.ayer’s value is tied to (mostly) two things
1) their performance
2) their contract
Scherzer’s perf9rmance had/has value
Scherzer’s Mets contract had significant negative value
Scherzer’s Rangers contract probably has slight positive value.
Domingo111
Fangraphs had an article that a 50fv prospect hitter is worth 28m, a 55 would be worth 46m. Fangraphs has acuna as a 50 (back end top100) but some teams might see him as a 55 (mid range top100). To be worth 28m scherzer would need to produce around 3 war from now till end of 2024, to be worth 46m he would need to produce like 4.5 war (for example 1 war this half year and 3.5 next year). Both is possible but far from a sure thing at his age.
filihok
ZiPS has Scherzer producing 3.4 WAR through next year.
That ignores marginal wins at the end of this season and any playoff performance.
blogs.fangraphs.com/mad-max-heads-to-texas/
It’s a reasonably fair trade – in my opinion.
If someone else things Acuna is the next Acuna, well, then they;ll think Texas got fleeced. If they think Scherzer is totally dont, also fleeced. I’d question why they think that, but, whatever.
Ma4170
MLB and Baseball America both have acuna as a 55
Jdt8312
Apparently Mike Maddux is the connection on the Rangers with Scherzer. Former Nats pitching coach while Scherzer was there.
JackStrawb
Apparently getting the he!! off the 2023-24 Mets was the real connection here.
Jdt8312
Well, if you think about how he performed for the Nats, and how he performed for the Mets, having that pitching coach may have been enticing. A person familiar with him, and how he works. I’m Max’s mind, his age isn’t a factor.
JayRyder
Wow ! Happy that the Rangers got him to Opt In for Next Season. It’s Good for them. And the Mets are in a Rebuild. At least thru the end of this season, then they go shopping again this off-season. More of a roll of the Dice to keep Max on payroll at that high of a hit. Th Rangers did well, but gave up a .300 Hitter for who knows how long. Got a lot of money. Short term win for Texas. Long term win for the Mets. But Prospects, you never know.
JackStrawb
I dislike Eppler’s work intensely, but if he got a prospect worth about $30m and also got Texas to chip in $22.5m in salary for a pitcher in Scherzer who’s only worth about $16m at this point for 2024 and the rest of the 2023 season, he did a good job here. He got beaten in the Robertson trade, but he turned around and slapped the Rangers pretty hard here.
Jdt8312
He didn’t get beat in the Robertson trade. Those are good players he got for a 38 year old guy with 3 months left on his 1 year deal.
MarlinsFanBase
Uh, so let me get this straight. The prospects the Marlins gave up for Robertson were low-level prospects with the Marlins, and are now good prospects now that the Mets got them?
JackStrawb
@jdt8312 Tell it to the Cubs, who got starting pitcher Ben Brown for Robertson in a nearly identical situation at the deadline in 2022. Brown is their #3 prospect, in a loaded system, a starting pitcher currently in AAA K’ing 13 per 9.
With Hader off the market, Robertson was the best closer available.
But based on your comment you think Marco Vargas is at least as good as Brown, which tells me at least one of two things:
1) you don’t actually follow baseball
2) you’re 12 years old.
MarlinsFanBase
Exactly @JackStrawb. I’m glad a Mets fan said it.
As a Marlins fan, I found @Jdt8312’s comment laughable. Those guys were not factors in the Marlins farm system,but @Jdt8312 is talking them up as good prospects? So, essentially by him saying that, wearing a Mets jersey makes them better than they were. So, I think you nailed it in your assessment of him.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
In what world is getting a pitcher with $1M owed on his contract over the last 2 months of the season (Robertson) anything remotely similar to the fleet of private planes worth of money the Mets just ate to see Scherzer go to Texas?
Jdt8312
No. I’ve been following baseball for almost 50 years. I’m looking at what held us back last year at the trade deadline, and it was the fact that teams were almost exclusively asking for the 4 guys we wouldn’t trade for anything that would have made an impact. It was the lack of any real talent on the farm, except about 6 guys of any value. That is what led to Vogelbach and Ruf. Having young talent in the low minor leagues is nothing to turn your nose up at. They grow into better player, and trade chips. I don’t know what you were expecting to get for a 38 year old pitcher who is on the last 4 months of his 1 year contract. But if you think anyone was offering more, and that Eppler hasn’t been fielding calls for weeks on both Scherzer, and Robertson, you’re off your rocker, and I question whether you know this game at all.
Jdt8312
Of course they aren’t a factor yet. They are in low A ball. But the whole point of trading away guys like Robertson, and Scherzer is to stock the farm system with the best talent you can get. And again, if you don’t think Eppler has been taking calls on these guys for weeks, you don’t know baseball. Prospects turn into good players, and trade chips.
MarlinsFanBase
@Jdt8312
What all of us are reacting to is your statement where you referred to the prospects the Marlins traded for Robertson as “good players”. Maybe you mispoke or weren’t clear based on this explanation where you elaborate on what you mean, but I can tell you, those two prospects the Marlins sent the Mets are long shots of being anything of value at the MLB level, assuming they make it to that level. As trade chips, maybe as extra filler again as low level prospects again because they’re not anything to start celebrating. Again, both are long shots.
MarlinsFanBase
@Jdt8312 And not all prospects turn into good players. Most fail..especially when they weren’t highly touted in the first place. Getting a good player that out of someone that wasn’t highliy touted is like winning a lottery ticket. We hear of the guys like Piazza and Pujols, but for every single one of those types (already rare), you have an uncountable amount of failed low-level/low-tier prospects.
If you think you can just celebrate what you got for Robertson, then you have a skill that should make you an MLB scout if you can see just another pair of long shots and think they will be good players. If you can do that, then you’re a good bet to find every next Piazza or Pujols type among the large trashheap of untouted prospects.
Jdt8312
Maybe you didn’t read the whole thing that I wrote. But they turn into trade chips. Often times trade chips are not moved because of what they are, but how they are perceived to be, as you seem to be insinuating, but not relating to this end of the conversation.
Timothy Salahi
You do realize the Mets are eating 2/3 of the contract for 1 prospect lol
JackStrawb
I replied to your woeful ignorance downthread, Timmy.
raisinsss
Weird comment.
You seem to acknowledge that max, as a player, might be worth multiple players yet do not consider the same for the prospect received.
It’s like you’re evaluating baseball at the level of an actual toddler:
“Daddy, how come they traded three guys for only one guy? That isn’t fair!”
Robrock30
JackStrawb,
I agree with your astute analysis here. Mets got away with selling rotten fish past its expiration date. Lol Rangers! We shall see if the younger brother Acuna is as worthy as Ronald or if he will be more like Jeremy Giambi or Frank Torre. He might turn out to be worthy like Yadier Molina though and he has athletic tools 42 SBs hitting .300+ but seems to be lacking the power.
CO Guardening
Why do I have a feeling Texas will regret this trade one day.
JackStrawb
I’m suspicious as to whether Texas has actually watched Scherzer pitch this year. Or, you know, looked at his stats. Or saw what he’s done down the stretch at this stage of his career.
The HR he gives up aren’t merely bad luck. He’s giving up rockets to dead center on pitches grooved down the heart of the plate. Every 4-1/2 innings or so.
No Soup For Yu!
Go look at Scherzer’s savant page. It’s not all great, but very little of it is bad either. The Rangers are banking that the HR issues can be fixed because he’s still not allowing a ton of loud contact outside of those.
JackStrawb
@No Soup For Yu! Understood, but this is one of those cases where the averaging that goes into peripherals such as K/9, BB/9, HH against, LD against, EV against and so on, is terribly misleading. Every 6th pitch (more or less) is fat, extremely hittable. Max has said he can’t grip the ball properly, and thus he grooves far too many pitches, and that doesn’t show up in the averaging.
There’s a big difference between an average of 5 in these two cases:
6, 4, 5, 6, 5, 4…
6, 6, 6, 1, 6, ..
Throw too many “1’s” (crappy meatballs over the heart of the plate), and you end up with Scherzer’s 1.9 HR per 9, and that will be very, very hard to change.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I’m going with August 2nd.
jvent
This doesn’t make sense that the Mets are paying $36 mil out of the $58 mil left for Acuna which is a SS prospect, when the Mets have Lindor for another 9 years, plus hey drafted 2 or 3 SS and they just got a SS prospect in the Robertson deal. How many SS does a team need lol. The Mets needed pitching prospects, with them giving $36 mil they should’ve at least have gotten Jack Leiter back.
flamingbagofpoop
That’s how bad Max’s contract is….
catojr
theknuckler
Lil Acuna can play anywhere on the field
Already played some 2B and CF.
He’ll more than likely end up at 2B
He’s only 5’8”
JackStrawb
The $58m the Mets still owe Scherzer has to be contrasted with Scherzer being worth only $16m-20m for 2024 and the rest of 2023, given his steep decline since he signed the deal during the 2021-22 offseason.
The Mets got a great deal in getting a prospect worth around $30 million AND getting $22.5 million in salary relief. It’s startling, really, which means if you think the Mets should have gotten more you don’t understand the situation. No offence.
Roll
ask the padres they have what 4 SS playing together right now in the everyday mlb lineup.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
It does when the owner of your team is Scrooge McDuck and he spends all day swimming in his money pit!
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
This is a good deal for the lol Mets. Got someone to take Scherzer’s salary next year and walked away with Ronald Acuna Jr’s little brother as well. I am shocked.
JackStrawb
Yup, but Texas is desperate. Heaney and Perez have been dismal. Eovaldi just hit the IL. They don’t have anything close to a postseason rotation, and the bullpen is thin. They want to make sure the Astros don’t catch them and push them into a 4-round postseason, and with Giolito and Stroman going off the board for various reasons, they were willing to overpay by $20m-30m to keep hope alive.
They did need another starter, badly, but given what they paid they should have gone after Verlander, assuming he’s available to them (and he may not have been).
Timothy Salahi
Lol eat 3/4 of the contract and only got one prospect back lol good move Texas
JackStrawb
Look up the term “sunk cost.”
dasit
they still don’t seem to get the concept of sunk costs, but since you’ve spent energy trying to explain it you have no choice but to keep trying
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I think that’s right before “Titanic Failure”?!
MarlinsFanBase
But is he Justin Upton or Billy Ripken or Dom Dimaggio?
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
He might be the other Upton because he’s going to blow!
MarlinsFanBase
If he’s going to blow, wouldn’t that make him Robert Bonds Jr.? Or perhaps Ozzie Canseco? Maybe even Wilton Guerrero? Nah, Wilton was decent. Heck, if the Acunas have a sister whose a successful athlete, and we think this Acuna can hang in MLB for a minute, maybe we can see a Darrell Miller type?
Bfree
Not my money so who cares? Cohen is made of it
AL B DAMNED
Along with all of the money the Mets are sending to the Rangers, Texas also receives 2 cases of STICKY STUFF!
gorav114
This will end up a terrible trade for Texas
MarlinsFanBase
For $22 million while the Mets pay the bulk of it?
gorav114
Scherzer is cooked. Can’t do anything in the playoffs and Acuna is gonna be a stud
MarlinsFanBase
Really? You have clairvoyance now to know Acuna is a sure thing? How do you know that?
YankeesBleacherCreature
They could’ve swapped a fork for a spoon and it would be the same comment.
gorav114
Yes, that’s it. I’m clairvoyant. Write it down
MarlinsFanBase
@GoRav114
Is that you @MetsFan22?
Timothy Salahi
Think about it the Rangers get an ace for 1 1/2 years for 22 million. Great move only had to give up 1 prospect
Bfree
He isn’t an ace anymore…but I do think it is a good trade for both sides.
flamingbagofpoop
Yeah, if you just ignore reality, it sounds really good.
dugmet
If you watched Scherzer this season, he’s no longer an ace. But he fits in alright as a #4 starter on a contender. He’s madly inconsistent and even more to HRs than ever. Plus he spit the bit as a Dodger and lin the playoffs in 2023.
Dogs
Rangers made a good deal here.
desertbull
Ace? You mean 5th starter?
desertbull
Let me guess… you want to make love to Karl Marx?
JackStrawb
@desertbull Who doesn’t?? The Godfather of economics, that beard, the fragrant dust of the British Library in London embedded in his suit coat….
Paleobros
Decent move by Texas. As a Braves fan, I’m sad to see him go.
Robrock30
You must not have been watching him lately and in important games.
Surprise Surprise Surprise
JackStrawb
Yeah, Scherzer isn’t just getting unlucky on fly balls, he’s being clobbered by some very ordinary hitters.
Robrock30
JackStrawb,
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.
drasco036
Breaking news: Eppler has his home on the market
DaddyDann
This Mets season will go down as one of the biggest disappointments for a baseball team in mlb history..
oz10
The padres are on the other line and would like to talk.
Bfree
I really find the LOL Mets responses on this site and in this thread funny. If a Braves fan wants to heckle the Mets then fair enough but when you have marlins fans with a team that has accomplished nothing other than cultivate and then trade away stars since their last World Series a couple decades ago, and a rangers fan whose team hasn’t been in a World Series in 10 years and has never won a World Series making comments, I think you guys need to get a grip on reality. Mets won over 100 games last year and thanks to Mr. Scherzer amongst others fell apart at the end of the season. Things can change quickly in baseball.
ChuckyNJ
“Mets won over 100 games last year” while choking away the NL East in the final week of the season. Then they got whupped, at home, in the NL wild-card round by spendthrift San Diego. Yet the BBWAA named Buck Showalter “Manager of the Year” because New York.
There are valid examples as to why LOLmets endures.
Bfree
Like I just said many teams are irrelevant or losers so not sure how you can pick out the Mets. Many teams have choked or underperformed. The world class Braves lost to the Phillies in the playoffs last year when they were world beaters at the time. I would call that choking as well based on the way you define it.
Who is your team? Yankees or the Phillies?
ChuckyNJ
Go back to the final weekend of last season. Mets are in Atlanta for a 3-game series. Win one game at Truist Park, the Mets clinch the season series and earn the tie-breaker over Atlanta. Braves sweep the Mets, get the tie-breaker, and finish the season in first. Mets host Padres the next weekend and that did not end well for New York.
I may live in a Yankee household but you don’t have to be a Yankee fan to know when LOL moments go viral.
flamingbagofpoop
I don’t understand why you think that past performance of a team that someone roots for has any bearing on whether or not they can laugh at the mets failure in 2023.
“Your team sucks too” isn’t a defense of the Mets significantly underperforming expectations and having a history of it.
filihok
I don’t understand laughing at a team’s failure
I guess we all understand different things
Yankeesforever
the only number bigger than Scherzer’s ERA is his AARP number.
Braves_saints_celts
So who goes to the bullpen, Perez or dunning?
DarrenDreifortsContract
That Mets world series hype died real fast lol.
Another owner who thinks he can just buy a championship.
Bil 2
Let’s ship Pham and Canha next. Would love to trade Verlander as well.
Wren
pretty obvious that was coming after max acts like he owns the team. hope he actually takes the ball when Texas needs him.
ACK
Great trade by the Rangers. You can’t get a TOR SP for 1.5 yrs for $22.5 mill. Besides little brother prospects rarely outperform their big brother prospects.
Benjamin101677
You must not remember the Molina brothers the longest was the best
No Soup For Yu!
You must not know what the word “rarely” means.
Smart person: “You really should wear your seatbelt, people rarely survive bad crashes without them.”
You (goober): “Uhhh, actually my uncle survived a crash and he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt, haha. Bet you didn’t see that coming. Liberal owned!”
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
I’m not sure how you were ranking the brothers, but I ain’t on that…bro!
mookiesboy
you didn’t
Roger Beshen's Patented FootballSlider
Or The Guerrero Bros, The Seager Bros, The Nola Bros. The Martinez Bros. The Perry Bros. The Weaver Brothers, etc. but go ahead and comfort yourself with that silly statement.
No Soup For Yu!
For every Corey and Kyle Seager, there’s a Hank and Tommie Aaron, a Greg and Mike Maddux, and a Phil and Joe Niekro.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
To be fair Joe Niekro was worth almost 29.7 bWAR in his career. Kyle was worth 36.9 bWAR to Corey’s 29.7 bWAR, plus Corey still has to hobble across the finish line of his career with another 7.2 bWAR to equal his brother. I wouldn’t bet against him going the way of the Prince Fielder and Josh Hamilton. Truthfully, him signing with Texas and failing to fulfill his contract would make him the new poster boy for Rangers baseball.
gw9999
Did you forget it was the Angels that gave Hamilton that last contract? I think 33% split between Tigers and insurance from 7 years ago is a distant memory for most Rangers fans, hardly the poster boy despite a stretch of bad Rangers teams since. There is at least a better stocked farm in place now to compensate for when some of these contracts do go bad.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
He went back to Texas before quitting two seasons before his contract expired. Did you forget that? So his last game ever was in a Rangers jersey. I think rebuying spoiled eggs literally epitomizes bad contracts.
gw9999
Rangers got 50 decent games for a total of $5M to $6M plus some bad post season games.. Angels paid around $70M for him to play on the Rangers for those same games.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Younger brothers who were better: Robin Yount, Vlad Guerrero Sr., Gaylord Perry, Pedro Martinez, Greg Maddux, Roberto Alomar, Trevor Hoffman, George Brett, and Honus Wagner, which are just the younger brother Hall of Famers.
Jered Weaver, Joe Torre, Yadier Molina, Justin Upton, Corey Seager, Todd Stottlemyre, were also better younger brothers, albeit not HOF level.
flamingbagofpoop
They didn’t get a TORP.
raisinsss
Poorly executed comment.
It only seems that way because there’s a great chance that by the time the little sibling has achieved success, the older has faded or flamed out already and you’d never have heard of him.
Whereas if the old sibling achieves success, the younger is immediately under the watchful eye of the casuals who frequent this site.
Deleted Userr
Trade is almost exactly fair, per BTV.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
5-to-1 Eovaldi gets injured or fatigued before the season is over.
10-to-1 The Rangers miss the playoffs all together.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
Called it, Eovaldi got injured within hours of me saying it and before they even played again. Now we wait two months to see me go two-for-two.
Domingo111
Scherzer isn’t at his peak anymore but I also think his HR rate should regress some. Almost 2 Homers per 9 is extremely high.
His k and Bb rate did regress too but a 20% K-Bb rate is still quite good. I don’t think his hr rate will improve to his peak level but if it regresses to about 1.3 per 9 while keeping the K and BB rate he should be a solid #2 or #3 starter.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
In Texas, it’s going to regress? Really? The only place where baseballs get a towel to absorb the sweat?! Yeah, bet on that. Tell me less!
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Rangers got fleeced by one of the worst GMs in MLB. Let’s see who Ineptler will get for JV!
filihok
How’d they get fleeced?
Most models and SMART analysis Ive seen have this trade being pretty even.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Have you seen Mad Max pitch for, say, the last year or so? Rangers got fleeced. Just like they were fleeced by deGrom’s agent.
filihok
oh
JR78
I would be looking hard to get rid of eppler if I was Cohen. The strategy of including a lot of money in deals to maximize prospect return is a good one, and that probably comes from Cohen. But these returns are comical. They had to eat 35 of 57 million owed to Scherzer over this year and next in order to get a “top 100” prospect. The rangers get a year and a half of Scherzer for 22 million. We just got a year and a half of Scherzer for 108 million. That difference is the value of this top 100 prospect? I realize Scherzer has devalued himself over the last year but that much? Insanity!!!
flamingbagofpoop
Scherzer was never worth the contract to begin with and the mets have eaten up 1.5 of what you’d expect to be the most productive seasons of the contract (due to how aging curve generally works). Add his struggles this year on to those factors and yeah…he has devalued himself that much. I’m actually surprised that Texas gave up as much as they did, even with the included money.
AgeeHarrelsonJones
Completely agree. Ineptler fleeced the Rangers.
filihok
How so?
The Rangers just got a pitcher likely to put up about 3.5 WAR over the next two seasons plus likely helps the Rangers to reach and compete in this years’ playoffs.
Just the regular season value of that is about (3.5 * 8) $28 million. The Rangers will be paying about $21 million for that value.
The value of the prospect going back is generally believed to be around $25 million.
I have the Rangers coming up slightly short in the move,but nothing like a fleecing.
Domingo111
The return is costly but the pitching market is just very bad. Expanded playoffs means a low number of sellers and the number of not even aces but just even solid starters who can give you 5+ innings of a 4 Era is just very low.
The angels also gave up a top100 prospect for half a year of giolito and a reliever.
There are just a lot more buyers than sellers this year and most available starters just suck. That means to get a Solid starter this deadline you have to overpay some. Is it costly for the rangers? Sure,but there just weren’t many alternatives and if you are in a position to make a good playoff run you have to do it.
Sure by surplus value you likely lose that trade but you are not ony bidding for surplus value but against 10 other contenders or semi contenders who all need a starter.
filihok
So refreshing to read the rare knowledgable post here.
Gracias.
raisinsss
No, that difference in value is a sunk cost of investing (poorly) in a declining hall of famer.
Acuna probably cost 13-17m.
RockinRobin
So many people are making a big deal that Luisangel Acuña is Ronald Acuña Jr. brother. Therefore, Luisangel will liikely be a solid MLB player.
History doesn’t really play that out. Who were the best siblings?
These guys were pretty good:
Paul Waner (WAR 74.7) and Lloyd Waner (WAR 29.6)
Joe DiMaggio (79.2), Dom DiMaggio (33.6) and Vince DiMaggio (17.8)
Pedro Martínez (83.9) and Ramón Martínez (25.9)
Phil Niekro (95.9) and Joe Niekro (29.7)
Gaylord Perry (90) and Jim Perry (41.6)
But then you also get
Tommie Aaron (-2.8),
Ozzie Canseco (-0.6)
Ken Brett (16.3)
Jordan Danks (-0.3)
Mike Glavine (-0.1)
Mike Maddux (5.6)
Chris Gwynn (-1.4)
Paul Reuschel (2.3)
Billy Ripken (5.9)
That said, sure, I’d take Luisangel Acuña hoping he becomes a Dom DiMaggio and not a Tommie Aaron.
flamingbagofpoop
I haven’t seen a single post that says he’ll be good solely because he’s RAJ’s brother.
DCartrow
It’s like hoping for Macho Man Randy Savage and getting Leaping Lanny Poffo.
LolMets
raisinsss
It’s more like hoping for a decent to great mlb player from a AA player with an ops of .830 and age diff at -3.5 with great athleticism at a premium position.
filihok
More correct
Less funny
raisinsss
“Funny”
Say Hey Now Kid
Was Acuna the only return? Because I don’t get why the Mets aren’t looking for pitching prospects when they have NOTHING coming up
filihok
Nothing says they didn’t look for pitching prospects
Maybe they were offered pitching prospects worth, making up a number, 6
And Acuña was worth, say, 10
Of course, you’d rather take 10 than 6
Say Hey Now Kid
True. But maybe more money gets you Acuna plus a pitching prospect. I’m thinking of future trades too. They might move Verlander
filihok
Sure
But the Rangers are beginning their competitive window. They’d probably rather pay more and and hold on to prospects for now.
Astros Hot Takes
@MLBTR or @Darragh McDonald or ANYBODY – haven’t seen this mentioned, and I have NO idea how to get this info, or to calculate it correctly, but somebody needs to figure out the luxury tax savings that Cohen has realized for 2023 by moving Sherzer – HAS to be north of 3 million, I’m thinking, and, perhaps, considerably north of that figure. Regarding 2024, that is impossible to know, plus Cohen might pay a free agent or two 43.333 million annual this offseason, negating any Sherzer tax savings for next season,
JoeBrady
Assuming this is all linear, if the kicked in everything bout $22.5M, then then the remaining salary savings for 23 is ~ 5.6M. If they are at the 90% tax margin, then they save $5M in tax.
filihok
It’s pretty easy to figure out
You estimate how much their total payroll for the season will be.
You figure out how much it would have been without the trades
You figure out the CB tax on the actual amount
You figure out the CB tax on the previous amount
Subtract.
Astros Hot Takes
and, fili, what number did you come up with when you did that? 🙂
NicoHoerndawg
So the Mets basically have paid/are paying Scherzer $107.5mm for a year and a half of service to the Mets. $100m don’t go as far as it used to I guess.
JackStrawb
@NicoHoerndawg Not even close, compadre.
The Mets just got Texas to kick in a total of $50.5 million in salary relief and prospect value, meaning they ‘only’ ended up paying Scherzer $79.5 millon for 1-2/3 seasons (or $47.7m per season). That’s rough, but Texas really came to the rescue here. Imagine being stuck with Max for the full three years of his deal, for $130 million total, given how he’s pitching this year.
Most well-heeled contenders would have been very content shelling out $47.7m for Max’s 5.2 WAR 2022 season, if they didn’t know the shape of it in advance, leaving just the bitter taste of 2023 to wash away and the $31.8 million they paid for his modest body of work this season.
It won’t go down as anything close to the top 100 disappointing MLB contracts.
JackStrawb
Fangraphs values Acuna at around $28 million, the standard for a 50 FV position player–and he’s probably in the upper tier of 50 FV players.
If we accept the $28m valuation, it means the Mets were able to dump Scherzer and the $58m they still owe him for just $7.5 million, which in turn means the Rangers wildly overpaid for a very ordinary pitcher at this point in his career.
The Rangers FO is far from stupid, so they know they overpaid. With the Cubs taking Stroman off the market, with the Angels being willing to overpay for Giolito and take him off the board, Texas probably feared getting no one, and given how committed they were to making the postseason this year, they probably figured that overpaying for Scherzer by $20m, even $30m if you think his value for the next 1-1/3 seasons projects to around $20.5 million, as I do.
Texas was desperate to keep their season from falling apart, given the injuries (Eovaldi hitting the IL) and also the underperformance at the back of their rotation (Heaney and Perez have been bad, and lucky so far), but if it turns out he was available to them I’ll bet they kick themselves for not paying a little more and getting Verlander. Unless they spotted something that makes them think they can fix Max in short order, they’re not getting a savior.