July 28: Catcher Austin Hedges has also drawn trade interest, Heyman tweets. While the veteran backstop provides nothing on the offensive side of the game — Hedges is a career .189/.246/.323 hitter who’s batting .181/.234/.231 this year — he’s long been regarded as a premier defender at a critical position. A club looking to add a defensive-minded backup could perhaps have interest in Hedges, who’s earning $5MM this season and still has about $1.77MM of that sum still to be paid out.
Moving Hedges makes sense for a Pirates club with two of the sport’s top catching prospects, Henry Davis and Endy Rodriguez, both ready for a legitimate audition in the Majors. Both are already on the big league roster, and Davis has seen some action in right field to get his bat in the lineup. A Hedges trade would clear out more playing time for each youngster. Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette spoke with Hedges yesterday about the possibility of a trade and his shift toward a mentor role for the younger Davis and Rodriguez. Both young backstops lauded Hedges for his eagerness to take them under his wing as they continue their development.
July 27: The Pirates have received some trade interest in starter Rich Hill and setup man Colin Holderman, tweets Jon Heyman of the New York Post. Hill, in particular, seems a good bet to move within the next few days.
Pittsburgh signed the 43-year-old southpaw to a one-year, $8MM free agent contract last offseason. Hill has continued to offer the kind of back-of-the-rotation production not far off that of his past few seasons. He owns a 4.82 ERA over 21 starts and 114 innings. His 19.1% strikeout rate is a bit below average, while he’s issuing walks at a roughly average 8.7% clip.
It’s not overwhelming production, but teams have valued Hill’s general stability at the back of a staff and veteran clubhouse presence. He’s been on six teams within the past five seasons, generally working at the end of a contending rotation.
For a while, the Bucs seemed as if they’d stick in the postseason picture. They’ve gone cold of late and fallen out of the mix, setting the stage for at least a moderate sell-off. Veteran first baseman Carlos Santana was shipped off to the Brewers this afternoon. Hill is in the same spot as an impending free agent who could have modest appeal to a contender. He’s due around $2.67MM from here forward.
The Pirates can set a loftier ask on Holderman. Acquired from the Mets for Daniel Vogelbach at last summer’s deadline, the right-hander has somewhat quietly developed into a quality reliever for the Bucs. He struggled down the stretch last summer but has solid numbers across the board this year.
Holderman, 27, owns a 3.71 ERA through 34 innings. His 23.3% strikeout rate is fairly typical, while he has above-average control and a quality 51.5% grounder percentage. He’s handling hitters from both sides of the plate, mixes three pitches and has picked up 15 holds in a leverage role for Pittsburgh.
That’s valuable production, and Holderman’s affordability only adds to the appeal. He surpassed one year of MLB service this season. He won’t be eligible for arbitration until after next year and is controllable through the 2028 campaign. Every contender could fit him on the books and into the middle innings, but the Bucs also have zero urgency to deal him for a suboptimal return.
Of course, the Bucs’ top potential trade candidates would be mid-rotation starter Mitch Keller and All-Star closer David Bednar. Heyman reported earlier this week the Pirates were willing to consider offers on those players. Both are under arbitration control for multiple seasons beyond this one (Keller through ’25, Bednar past ’26). The ask on each will be very high as a result, and deals seem significant long shots. Robert Murray of FanSided wrote yesterday that a Keller or Bednar trade was very unlikely, characterizing the openness to offers as standard due diligence for GM Ben Cherington and his staff.
Red Sox should get Hill back. He won’t be great, but he will eat some innings and save the bullpen, and best of all he probably won’t cost much. I hope we don’t go after any high-end rentals after seeing what that Angels gave up for Giolito
Redsoxx – Considering how many bad mop-up pitchers Bloom has run in and out of the Red Sox pitching staff this year, the last thing they need is to trade any type of prospect for yet another one.
I mean seriously, in the second half Hill has a 5.06 ERA and 1.688 WHIP. Might as well bring back Faria for nothing.
Thing is with Cora’s bullpen management and having to do two bullpen games every time through the rotation, they really don’t have the roster space for a mopup guy. Cora needs as many pitchers as he can get his hands on.
second half of the season…? three games? I don’t know the situation with the Red Sox if this would be an improvement but three games. judge buy a few more games Going back to the start of june it isn’t much better but about 50/50 for QS. For a back end 5/6 starter, you could do worse.
joew – I’m glad you asked, I’d be happy to explain.
Hill is 43 years old.
Most players that age wear down as the season progresses.
Hill has a history of needing time off in the second half to recover from the grind of the regular season.
He missed the entire month of July last year, and started only 4 games in August including pitching on 7 days rest and 9 days rest.
His most recent starts (ie: 2nd half) are the most critical in judging what direction his performance is going.
If the Rays had done the same with Nelson, when he was awful prior to being traded to Tampa, then they could have avoided his disastrous performance in a Ray uniform.
Sorry but when it comes to pitchers in their 40’s there is a LOT more weight placed on recent performance, and rightfully so.
@fever
Will not dispute what you say, i just do not want to look it up.
I still stand by… 3 starts in the second half is not enough to judge. If you take the previous month into account, he is still one you consider as a backend 5/6th guy on many teams that wouldn’t take much to get.
Would also like to site his August on performance in his 19 year career is much better than his mid season performance actually quite a bit better. Not counting his age of course.
Sox are my favorite. Reports are they wanted him as a free agent. He is healthy and recently added a splitter. No reason not to want him now if they want a 5th starter.
Wait a second, weren’t Hedges, Hill, and Holderman also the names of the Watergate burglars?
What did the Angels really give up for Giloito (and Lopez)? A bat first catcher who lacks catching skill and a pitcher who lost most of his control because he had switch arm angles?
For those Pirates fans who were hoping Andujar would take Santana’s place on the roster, apparently management has decided to promote Palacios instead
And if Hedges is traded, I see them bringing Delay back so Davis can continue honing his skills in right field
It’s becoming clear that they are looking to get the #1 draft pick in 2024 and only losing the majority of the remaining games can do just that
Not that Hedges would be a huge offensive loss, it’s their other decisions that suggest their intent
Andujar earned another promotion
You know worst record doesn’t guarantee you the number one pick anymore right? Literally, what the pirates are doing, is what every team (except normally the Rockies who are delusional) does when they are out of contention. Trade expiring contracts for prospects. It’s not new. Even the Cardinals are looking into it since they’re out of contention this year. A salary dump is when they basically get nothing back in return. Even though the prospect they got back for Santana is years away from MLB readiness, he still has high upside, meaning it was still a better return than they’d get from a salary dump.
If your Mitch Keller up for Arb 2 this year, do you want to be throwing to a rookie or a gold gloveer that creates all kinds of extra strikes?
I get what they’re doing, my point was more about who they’re bringing up to replace Santana
Andujar has been tearing the cover off the ball at Indy and deserves a promotion
Palacios isn’t and doesn’t
And the GM has been clear, Henry Davis is being groomed to be the regular right fielder and won’t catch anymore so they will have to promote Delay or find another catcher to replace Hedges
Paul- I am hoping that BC is not that stupid.
He was shrewd enough to give Andujar a decent salary which is what has kept him in the system.That tells me that he has not yet given up on a player with a 990 OPS in AAA.
He may be waiting to see if he can trade Choi.Even keeping Choi Andujar should have been brought up now.
BC will have to making decisions on CSN,Mitchell,and Palacios this year as they will need room on their roster once the season ends.
of course BC is that stupid, he hired Shelton and gave him an extension this year
Paul- Shelton was given another year during the euphoria of April when even you saw the glass half full.
He was a lame duck manager which is not a good thing.
Maybe BC is stupid enough though to go down with the ship because he is keeping a bad manager for whatever reason.
You’re correct, Mendoza, April was a Pirate fan dream come true, until May arrived and the realization hit.
A long awaited dream turned into the reality of the annual failure to which we have come to expect under this management
Another base running blunder by Suwinski for allowing himself to be doubled up on a shallow fly ball
Reynolds was 0 for 9 straight Nola prior to tonight’s game including 6 strikeouts. He’s struck out two more times against Nola so far; so my question is why Shelton would bat Reynolds further down in the order or sit him in favor of Palacios?
And I’m tired of hearing Shelton defend Andy Haines
The Bucs are back to their normal form, Keller gives up a two run homer and the Bucs bats have struck out 4 times in their first 6 ABs
Holderman is this years clay Holmes.. someone will trade for him and he will become a dominant reliever while the pirates will give him away for 2 non factor prospects
More control and they know how to get production from Holderman. They will get a good return if someone is willing to pay it.
Holderman has already done 10x better than Clay Holmes ever did for the Pirates. I don’t fully blame the Pirates for giving up on Holmes. He had probably the best sinker/slider combination I had ever seen, but just zero command, and it’s not as if the Pirates gave him zero chances. For every pitcher with great stuff who eventually figures it out like Holmes, there are dozens of other names you don’t hear about because they flame out.
Holderman on the other hand has been really good this year. He struggled some in June, but some of that could probably be chalked up to his injury. If you eliminate the month of June from his numbers, which only makes up all of 4 innings, he has a 2.40 ERA, 2.69 FIP, and 1.10 WHIP.
He’s an all star!!!!
Terrible comp. Holmes did nothing in Pitt. Holderman has been solid and has a bright future
Urban legend has it, that the ageless junkballer, Rich Hill, once struck Jesus out on a curveball in the dirt.
You’re trying to say Jesus Christ can’t hit a curveball?
Well played!
Jesus has all the answers of time, space and the universe my friend; that being said, he was never able to hit a Major League curveball. It always bedeviled him.
How about a little crisco?
Jesus was a carpenter so he had good wood.
Just ship the ageless wonder back to Boston, where he belongs.
So glad the Mets traded Holderman for the amazing athlete that is Vogelbach. Ridiculous.
And that was one of the Mets smarter moves!
Holderman has a 0.2 WAR since the trade compared with Vogey’s 0.8. So nowhere near the disaster uninformed fans seem to think it is. Holderman is nothing special.
Holderman has been a lockdown set-up man for most of the season. Only time he struggled was in June, and that was just four innings and before he was placed on the IL for a week and a half. I don’t know about you, but I’ll gladly take Holderman 10x out of 10 over Vogelbach, as fun as Vogelbach was to watch with the Pirates.
@mlb1225: Not saying Vogelbach is anything great, but neither is Holderman. Classifying the trade as a loss for either team is a mistake. Mets needed a lefty DH and they got one. Pirates needed a lefty reliever and got one. Calling the trade ‘ridiculous’ from the Mets perspective makes little sense as Vogelbach has been worth more than Holderman.
Also, numbers are numbers. You don’t get to set aside Holderman’s struggles and injuries and declare him the better player. I could toss out a month of Vogelbach’s stats and do the same.
Well one, it wasn’t just a month’s worth, it was 4 innings worth of playing time. It’s not like he pitched 10-15 innings and struggled in all of them. Equivilant of that is like a week of playing time for a position player. I don’t think I can only take a week or two from Vogelbach’s season and make his numbers look good.
The only way you could possibly do that is to ignore both May and June, which is a total of 121 and 56.3% of his plate appearances this season. Holderman’s 4-inning June makes up less 13.3% of his total innings this year.
Vogelbach has not been nearly as effective as a hitter this season than Holderman has been as a pitcher. Using WAR for a reliever is not a good barometer. WAR in general is not the be all end all. Also, consider the fact Vogelbach has a negative WAR this season.
Saying Vogelbach is worth more than Holderman is only true in a WAR sense, and using WAR to compare pitchers to position players (and especially RPs to position players), it’s not a one-for-one translation, far from it. 2.0 WAR as a shortstop means something completley different as 2.0 WAR as a first baseman. 0.8 WAR as a DH is completely different as 0.2 WAR as a relief pitcher.
Holderman has been great in high leverage this year, which has been his primary job. Vogelbach’s primary job as a DH is to provide some thump. He did in the home stretch of last season, but has a .707 OPS. Among DHs with 200+ plate appearances this year, Vogey doesn’t crack the top 20 in OPS, wOBA, wRC+, isolated slugging, or slugging. Only rate statistics he is 20th or better in is OBP and walk rate.
Vogey is awesome. Mets fans absolutely love him.
Eat a dong, rct.
Dan Vogelbach is very fat
Vogey’s selling point has always been OBP & homeruns; this year he’s not hitting homeruns and if he gets on 1b, it takes about 3 hits to score him, which means he rarely scores. In summation, Vogey is very fat, slow, ambushes post game spreads and is virtually useless.
Vogelbach and Monaoh on a seesaw would be a sight.
Holderman is the perfect name for a setup man. Lol
Put him right between Starterman and Saverman.
Teams are interested in rich hill tells you how good a sellers market this is. He is sooo bad.
Perfect as a 5th starter on a team that has 3 playoff arms. Hey can go 5 6 innings 100 pitches 4 runs or less most the time.
4 runs in 5 innings isn’t good…hate to tell you
It is when you have a good lineup, need a starter and don’t want to part with any real prospects in a sellers market.
Well, even Noah Syndergaard got a change-of-scenery trade.
Good ole Dick Mountain.
Rich Hill would help settle down the Dodgers rotation. And he’s had success there before.
It’s a seller’s market. Sell anyone you get fair value for. Load up the farm for the rest of the decade.
Not surprisingly the Pirates are shipping all their good veterans out. I wonder if Reynolds is regretting signing that extension already? It seemed like the team fell apart after losing their big shortstop to injury for the season.
The Pirates lost Cruz after the first week of the seaoson. They were a good team for about another month after they lost Cruz. The rest of the team was playing so far over their heads, their play was reaching the stratosphere. I don’t believe they’re as bad as they’ve been playing, and I don’t believe they were as good as they were in April. If Reynolds is regretting the extension because the Pirates decided to trade Carlos Santana and are thinking about trading Rich Hill, then so be it. I get those guys are clubhouse leaders, and I agree that’s valuable, but only to a certain degree. The former hasn’t had an OPS+ above 100 since 2019, and the ladder might even retire next season, and he currently has the worst ERA of his career in any season where he started at least 15 games.
Nah they’re shipping out one year rentals. This is a bog standard approach for teams in the type of position the pirates are currently in. It was widely expected going into the season that the pirates would be dealing one year vet acquisitions at the deadline if they weren’t in contention.
I am sure he is regretting getting paid over 100 million. He was probably looking forward to hitting the market as a under 800 ops 31 year old left fielder.
Santana and Hill are both on expiring contracts and were never viewed as permanent solutions. Stocking the farm system is exactly what a rebuilding team should be doing.
they’ve been stocking the farm system since 2015 and they aren’t any better now as a result
And because the player development is so horrible, injuries such as the one that sidelined Cruz, there’s no one capable of making up for his loss
Teams like LA and the Braves have injuries, but their player development is so good that they can make up for the loss of key players
And rumors have it that Hayes is tired of the losing and might be asking for a trade this winter
Again, you made that up. The Pirates were still buying as recent as 2018. The farm system was one of the worst in baseball in 2019 with very little high end talent. The rebuild didn’t start until 2020.
the rebuild activity started in 2018, I hit the wrong number in my previous post
But whatever I’m not going to argue with you about it
The Pirates were buyers at the deadline in 2018, and then projected to compete for the postseason in 2019 before the wheels fell off that year. That’s why Huntington and co. were fired after the season. The MLB roster was mediocre and the farm system gutted from being buyers most of the previous 8 years.
Just say you were mixed up and move on, it’s not hard.
Whatever Buctober but the bottom line is they live in perpetual rebuild mode
Which should include management and coaches
They regressed this year offensively, fielding is mediocre with the exception of a few players and their base running skills are questionable
And no amount of prospects will help this franchise without first changing the player development team and starting over with another manager
how about instead putting me on mute. No one tells me to move on without me responding back
They’ve been rebuilding since 2020. Last time they did a full scale rebuild it was successful, maintaining the farm system is where the previous group failed. Jury is still out on everything still with this group. Having a top 3 farm system (#1 on Fangraphs) for the first time in decades is a good start, the previous group never had a farm system this good.
I don’t mute anyone, not even internet tough guys hahaha.
They didn’t really ‘rebuild’ in 2018. More like they tried to retool. If you remember, the same off-season they traded both Cole and McCutchen, they acquired Corey Dickerson, who was coming off an all-star season and had two more years of control remaining. They also went out and got Chris Archer and Keone Kela at the trade deadline. These are not moves that a team who is rebuilding makes.
Rebuilding is more of a complete teardown. If the Pirates were rebuilding in 2018, then instead of acquiring an all-star outfielder, and two major league pitchers, they would have traded guys like Josh Harrison, Jordy Mercer, and Francisco Cervelli, as all three whom were on the last (or next to last) guarenteed year of their deals, and probably would have traded Gregory Polanco given his strong 2018, as well as Starling Marte,
Reynolds did not sign a long term extension because he was thinking about being part of a team fronted by Rich Hill and Carlos Santana. They were temp measures to add some veteran bulk to a very young team. They did that. Neither would have been back next season, so trading for prospects is what you do.
I didn’t try to make a pun initially but is name should he Holdmybreath because that’s how I felt every time he was coming in this year. Nice velocity and K rates but was serving longballs left and right, and seemed to have a lot of rough outings. I wouldn’t trade him though because he could be good with a few tweaks.
He has been good this year. June was the only time where Holderman had trouble, and that’s right before he was put on the IL. Aside from the 4 innings he pitched in June, he has an ERA and FIP below 3.00.
I actually thought Holderman was better last year and certainly for the first month this year.
He is too good to trade though.
The Pirates need to keep the good young controllable players that they have.This guy has promise but is not going to bring such a haul to consider trading him.
Rich Hill was originally drafted in 1999 by the Cincinnati Reds.
He’s the last active MLB player to be drafted in the 20th century.
His career has spanned over 5 U S presidents.
Tom Brady was gearing up for his senior season at Michigan when Rich Hill was selected.
Rich Hill is old. That is all.
So if the Bucs trade Hill, they’ll literally be “Over the Hill!”.
Holderman meh. Not unless it’s part of a package with Erlichman, Mitchell and Dean
Holderman, bendar and Keller should not be on the trading block. They have years of control left. The pirates stupid management should be fired along with the owner. I don’t even know why people like the pirates. Heck, bob has the whole city brainwashed so he can have a cheap team and pocket the funds.
They’re not on the trading block. Other Teams showing interest in good players on a rebuilding team is going to happen. They might be willing to listen to offers, but that doesn’t mean they’re willing to trade them. It’s been said it would be extremely difficult to get the Pirates to trade Bednar or Keller.
I assume if the Pirates were listening on Bendar or Holderman, their starting asking price would be what the Yankees got for Aroldis Champan in 2016, if not more considering Chapman was a rental and both Bednar and Holderman aren’t even in arbitration yet. Put it like this: the last time a top closing pitcher in the league with 2+ years of control remaining was in 2018 when the Blue Jays traded Roberto Osuna. Of course, comparring Osuna to Bednar isn’t a one-for-one. The Jays were wanting to get rid of Osuna because of his off-field issues without just giving him up for free.
Everyone should be on the trading block. I collect cars and every single one of them is available for the right price or trade. Pirates management isn’t stupid compared to other teams. I don’t think they will trade them unless it’s something of more value. Keller only has 2 more seasons left. If he doesn’t want to extend then he has 1 more season left. Relievers are the easiest thing to replace and are volatile. You always trade them when you aren’t contending and someone gives you starters. Spending $ doesn’t mean success. Look at SD NY etc. Want Bob to spend 30 40 50 60 million on a 1b when Santana for 7 is better just to spend $ ? I know you won’t change your opinion. I just love to tell the hard truth and piss off pirates fans. Most know I speak the truth they would just rather yell their fake narrative and be miserable and complain.
Not saying the Buc should trade Bednar, but he’ll command a big return if he is traded.
The D-Backs have a solid farm system that’s heavy with OF prospects. Bucs have lots of INF prospects but their cup isn’t running over in the outfield. Right now, D-Backs, firmly in the playoff hunt, are trying out their fourth closer (Ginkel) after the others failed.
An all-star closer is a luxury for a losing team. As Dream GM stated above, every asset is for sale at the right price. Besides, a team can always groom a closer from within (Contreras ?) are buy a veteran set up guy and move him up a notch.
Bednar and Keller to AZ for Drew Jones and Lawler!
This is the right move.
I Agee with the above content.
Gee I wonder what team has interest in him…
Real Pirate fans want the team to win.They are not concerned about this perpetual rebuild and storing good young players in the minors.
I have serious doubts as to whether Nutting wants to win.He May be tired and looking to sell.Cherington is obviously unwilling to make the major changes necessary to make this team fundamentally sound.
Any great team,and even the very good teams,have continuity in players and management.This happens even in this period of free agency.When they do not win either or both are jettisoned.
The Pirates signed both Reynolds and Hayes in part to maintain some semblance of continuity.Trading proven players for several minor leaguers is like paying top dollar free agents-taking a big chance.
The Pirates are getting fringe free agents partly because no one wants to play for a continually losing team,It was part of the reason why Machado was hesitant to sign with San Diego.I think it part of the reason why Keller may not be receptive here to sign an extended offer.
Trading Bednar,who is a local celebrity with fire on the mound,would be a huge loss,and a failure to commit to winning.Anyone who thinks that a closer on a losing team with three years of control is not a very important player is content with losing forever.
And they are not real fans of the team.
Mendoza, you do realize the Pirates were buyers at the deadline from 2011-2018, correct?
This “selling” thing is only since 2019. By the end of 2019 the MLB team was mediocre and the farm system was terrible and gutted from trading/graduating prospects for years. That’s why the previous management group was fired, they failed to maintain an adequate farm system and weren’t winning enough at the MLB level.
This is obviously the best farm system Pittsburgh has had in decades (#1 on Fangraphs), the previous group never had a farm system ranked this high. That’s a good start, but the jury is still out on the rest. We’ll see. I’m cautiously optimistic.
Buc- yes to first paragraph.Monumental collapses in the second half of 2011 and 2012 then again 2019 to start the rebuild.Mediocrity in 2016-2018 but close enough to make minor deals.
I disagree in that the players that they traded for those deadline players I remember as mediocre and did not gut the farm system since it was generally mediocre,although never near to the worst.
Yes to second paragraph.
I believe that they have a good farm system as far as players are concerned but to me there are telltale signs that it may not be as good as advertised.
I do not think that they have anyone who is near a sure fire star like McCutcheon and Marte were.Small market teams need to develop them if they ever want to contend for pennants.In addition,none of the farm system teams seem to have more than mediocre records.This is not an absolute sign because of filler players but they need to learn how to win in the minors Many of the young players seem to lack fundamentals,and we both agree need better coaching.
You are probably much younger than me so I salute you in being cautiously optimisticI see the glass half full and rising.We both agree that major changes have to be made and I do not know that Nutting and Cherington realize that.
But I do not know that the water in the glass is ever going to reach the brim.
McCutchen and Marte were not guarantees to be star players, you’re using hindsight.
Paul Skenes, Henry Davis, Endy Rodriguez, Termar Johnson, Quinn Priester, and Oneil Cruz were all higher ranked prospects than Marte, and Davis, Rodriguez, Skenes, and Johnson are all ranked around or above where Cutch was his last year as a prospect.
I’ve come to the realization years ago that the Pirates probably won’t win a championship unless MLB has a major overhaul with structure. It’s almost impossible for small market teams to win the championship for all kinds of reason (only 1 in 30+ years).
I watch because I love baseball. I can’t bring myself to root for a large market team that has all kinds of competitive advantages over most of the teams in the league. I’m just hoping for the team to be competitive more often than not (like from 2011-2018). Outside of the current Rays and the Moneyball A’s, that’s about as good as small market teams can do.
I remember that Cutch was rated very highly,and Marte was more in the middle of the ratings.
I do not doubt that the players that you mention may have been more highly rated,but,other than Skenes,I do not see any sure fire all stars.
I remember maybe five years ago a poster here saying the Pirates basically will never have a chance to win a WS.He wasn’t trolling..I did not believe him at first.Hope springs eternal.But then I realized that he was right.There has been one small market WS winner in the last 30 years.It is tough enough to win the WS with a good team,and even a very good team.Luck and timing have a lot to do with it.
I am just hoping for a competitive team that wins in the 80’s or low 90’s and competes for the division title every year for four or five years.
I am not convinced now that they will even get to that.
That might have been me haha.
The Pirates had a good enough team to get hot and win it in 2013 and 2014, but it would have taken a lot of luck. However, in 2015 I truly think the Pirates had the best team in the entire league (best record in the league after May). But, the league had that dumb one game Wild Card format and they ran into the best pitcher in baseball (Jake Arrieta). That was the team that could have done it.
You basically got your wish from 2013-2018, they competed for the division title in 4 out of 6 years. They’ll get back there, but there will also be down periods and rebuilds like the current one. No small market team is immune, not even the Rays (they missed the playoffs five years in a row from 2014-2018). The Pirates have a very talented MLB roster, it just also happens to be the youngest roster in all of baseball.
I think this group makes the playoffs several times in the next 5 or 6 years as long as there are coaching changes this offseason. This is probably the most young talent on any Pirates team since the late 80’s, and I don’t say that lightly. We’ll see.
Buc-Baseball fans deserve better than what the Pirates have generally been over the last 30 years.
It will never happen on any sort of continuous basis without a salary cap and floor.
I do agree with your assessment,and hope that BC does too.
I think that Nutting will spend money on a real free agent or two but he needs to see the value in doing so.
I get what the Pirates have been doing for a long time now with the Tampa retool style and how Huntington went off script and destroyed the entire blueprint in his final couple years here
But it’s clear that soooo much has to be in place for the model to work and it starts with the scouting department. We can discard franchises like LA or Atlanta that seem to get it right in most cases
But look at small market teams that get it right, too, aside from TB itself.
Watch the Orioles play and realize the great majority of their players came up through the minors. Watch the Reds. And although they’ve faded a bit, watch the D’backs
Dream says that good scouts and development personnel don’t grow on trees and I can accept that. But this is where I part ways with Buc when he says the Pirates are doing things right
Their blueprint is commendable but clearly, they don’t have people in place to make it work. At least, not yet
I get that the draft is a crap shoot, that college or high school ball are different animals. Yet some teams get it right, and quite often
mlb1225, Buc and Dream all report that there are some real studs coming up, especially pitchers. I hope so
But we’re on the cusp of yet another August in which vets are sent packing and we’re left to further evaluate the kids who are here. And other than a small core, it doesn’t look pretty
Corn-I know very little about the young players.”Don’t know much about the French I took,don’t know what a slide rule is for”.
But I do know that 1 and 1 is two.I checked the stats for the pitchers in AAA and AA a couple of days ago,and was not impressed with any except for Travis McGregor,and he is now evidently a relief pitcher.
Maybe these budding pitching stars are very young for the league,or maybe the best are in the lowest minor leagues,but when Osvaldo Bido is the best that you can do,maybe the minor leagues are not chock full of starting pitching stars as some say that they are.
I went back and re-read a couple posts from Buc. Between his thinking that somehow the Pirates farm system is the best they’ve had in uh, decades, and his idea that this group will make the playoffs several times in the next 5 or 6 years, I’m convinced that my understanding of baseball since the late 60’s must be a convoluted mishmash of misunderstandings about what talent even looks like.
I’ve read a lot of pie in the sky babblings from true believers here, but those two comments come from the outer fringe of reality.
Mendoza, you can’t lump the entire 30 years into the same category.
The Pirates were on the verge of bankruptcy and then were forced to pay down debt by the league. From the mid-90’s until 2010 the Pirates literally didn’t have a chance to win. They were barred from spending much money until they met thresholds set by the league, and they were literally forced to salary dump Aramis Ramirez and all the other teams knew it (that’s why they got zero return for him). They were financially solvent in 2009 or 2010 for the first time in two decades (can’t remember the exact year and too lazy to look it up lol).
Since Nutting has taken over the team and got the debt taken care of the Pirates have actually be competitive more than they haven’t. I’ve said this before, but they’re actually doing a decent job for a small market team. They’ve made the playoffs more than 8 other franchises in this time frame (some of them large market teams).
Pirates fans are just jaded, most of the ridicule is unwarranted. Rebuilds happen, nobody is immune to them, even large market teams (see the White Sox, Orioles, D’Backs, Angels, etc.).
We definitely agree about the cap ceiling and floor. Until that happens baseball will lack the competitive balance that makes the NFL so popular and fail to attract more fans.
Corn,
The Orioles and D’Backs aren’t small market teams. That’s the DC metro area and Phoenix, two of the largest metropolitan areas in the country and they have massive TV deals.
The Reds are definitely a small market team, but they haven’t been better than the Pirates over the last decade and a half. They stunk for 9 years in a row prior to this one. If you think the Pirates are always rebuilding, try being a Reds fan.
The Pirates are a year behind the Reds. Last year the Reds called up a ton a pitching prospects and a few position players, this year the position players followed en masse. The Pirates are just flipped, the position players are arriving this year and the pitchers look like they’re on schedule to arrive next season (Skenes, Jones, Ashcraft, and Solometo).
I just said it to Mendoza as well, we’re all a little jaded as Pirates fans. I’m not a huge fan of Cherington, but the talent on this roster is the best it’s been since 2016, it’s just extremely young and raw. Jury is still out on the follow through, but so far so good on the rebuild. Unfortunately, you have to be patient during a rebuild, but most Pirates fans are unable to for various reasons.
MOST Pirates fans have been ultra-patient
Whether it’s those who remember they haven’t had WS win since ‘79, or those who remember the disappointment of a tremendous Leyland era NOT resulting in a WS appearance, or the Cutch era, round 1.
True believers see raw talent here and talk about being a couple years away. They castigate old time fans who’ve seen and heard it all before as being impatient, or out of touch with modern baseball. We might as well have the team’s PR department posting because clearly, dinosaurs like me aren’t their target audience anymore
I listed three eras of Pirates baseball that were exciting. We could go back to the Lumber Company years or even ‘71 for more but in between all of that has been one, big, constant rebuild. The lack of patience comment is absurd. Rebuilding IS Pirates baseball
I’d debate you about Baltimore. I know the geographic angle quite well, thanks, and while a population of 600,000 or so might mean major market to you or that somehow metro DC/Arlington has forgotten they already have a team, it’s not a large market
I’ll grant you Phoenix, and should have made note of them being down for so long and building via their farm as opposed to market size
Once again, you have your viewpoints and I have mine. To me, this has been and will continue to be a never-ending rebuild. Perhaps the cavalry will come over the hill and your points will bear fruit. But as a fan since the late 60’s, one whose been ultra patient, I doubt it
Buc-I do not necessarily disagree with you.
But I do think that fans do get jaded because of the long history of losing no matter what the causes have been.
If you’re waiting for a World Series win, it probably isn’t happening. It’s almost impossible for a small market team to win. Only one small market team has won in over 30 years.
The Pirates you love from the 60’s and 70’s didn’t have to deal with free agency. Had the modern structure of the league been in place in the 60’s and 70’s the Pirates probably wouldn’t have won any of the three World Series they won.
I don’t know what else to tell you, it’s not the Pirates fault entirely that it’s a struggle to win. They’ve actually been decent for a small market franchise over the last 13 years or so, the numbers show that. You think they’ve been terrible. I think you should reset your expectations to more realistic ones. I saw you in another post say my opinions are on the fringe of reality, I’d say your expectations are.
Mendoza, they weren’t going to rush a starting pitcher to the MLB from AA just because they had a ton of injuries. That’s how you screw up your future.
The Pirates have two top pitching prospects close to the majors (Jones and Skenes), and two more that are very good prospects in AA (Solometo and Ashcraft).
Bido was 10th on the depth chart headed into the season, sometimes disasters happen like this year. Most teams have a guy just like Bido as 10th on their depth chart. It’s not unique to the Pirates.
If you checked the stats for pitchers in AA and AAA a couple of days ago and didn’t notice Solometo, Ashcraft, or Jones, then you didn’t look very closely:
Jones: ERA – 2.23 in AA, 5.08 in AAA in 5 starts (but striking out 11 per 9) at age 21
Solometo: ERA – 2.30 in A+, 3.14 in AA at age 20.
Ashcraft: ERA – 3.76 in A+, 0.00 in AA in 5 starts at age 23
You know about the #1 overall pick Skenes.
Buc-I did not expect them to rush anyone to the MLs.
I was using Bido as an example that they have no pitching depth.
We discussed that before so no need to go into it but the Dodgers and Rays have had much worse injuries and they still have good teams.
Jones 10 games 4.5 innings per start
Ashcroft 5 games 2 innings per start
Solometo 6 games 5 innings per start
Yes,they all have good era’s but I am not confident in them until they show that over the course of a whole season and not just a few games.
You seem to alternately talk past many of our comments while also making assumptions on what we are looking for
Speaking for guys like Mendoza and TheMan3, no, we are not looking for a WS win, or even appearance. A competent. consistent team that can compete year in and year out would be nice
That’s all
Many of us have said repeatedly that we’d gladly accept a .500 team that every so often gives us an AJ-Martin group of additions to augment the kids and produces a wild card or division run. Again, that’s all
You keep pounding the “re-build” angle and again, they’ve been through so many rebuilds since the 80’s that it’s almost comical
Meanwhile, long time fans are not jaded. Or cynical. Or impatient. Again, we’ve heard and seen it all before and while fireworks nights and pierogi races may placate younger fans with the age old “we’re on the cusp of competing” mantra, the harsh truth is the franchise needs to prove it
I’d say that on the contrary, longtime Pittsburgh fans are some of the most knowledgeable fans. But again, they’re not the target audience of the franchise because truly, they see through the hype
As for your comments about previous generations juxtaposing with modern considerations attached, it’s all relative. The Pirates have always had to deal with many issues specific to they’re being in a smaller market. They just seemed to have more visionary leadership, better scouting and better player development
I’m hopeful your rendering of minor league stud pitcher statistics at the farm level translates to success on the MLB level but one can refer to a long laundry list of guys who’ve torn up the minors in the Pirates chain and have failed miserably here or had middling careers as Pirates only to find success elsewhere or become Pirates broadcasters whose charge is to sell tickets and tell us what we see isn’t real
Your frustrations with Pirates fans in this regard is misguided and what needs a reset is your view of what our expectations are
Since the 80’s, this continues to be a franchise is constant rebuild with a previous few bright periods along the way.
Corn,
You’re ignoring history in one sentence and then using it as an example in the next. The teams that AJ and Martin were on were less than a decade ago. Like I said, the PIrates have been a solid small market franchise since Nutting took over. Not great, not bad, just solid.
I don’t understand what your issue is? I get it, you want them to be the Moneyball A’s or the Rays, that’s what they’re trying to do. Huntington failed at that, now Cherington is trying. The Pirates consistently spend more than both of those franchises on both the MLB team and in scouting/development, and have had decent results. They’re in year 4 of a rebuild, it happens. Even the Rays will rebuild. The Reds just took 10 years to rebuild, let’s hope the Pirates do much better lol.
Your point about the Pirates teams form the 60’s and 70’s is just flat out wrong. There was no free-agency, end of discussion.
From the mid-90s to about 2010 the Pirates were deep in debt and couldn’t even attempt to win in reality. Since 2010 you’ve had it fairly good for a fan of a small market team. The constant complaining is so damn old and tired. I’m sick of it. I’m not a huge fan of Cherington, but I’m still giving him his 5 years to actually have his players get to the majors. You were writing him off when he had a team full of Huntington’s players and retreads that he had to sign just to fill a roster. Yes, Pirates fans are jaded and cynical. I choose to not be that way and find most of the fans insufferable, it just is what it is.
Mendoza,
Only the Dodgers have had more pitching injuries than the Pirates, but they can afford to go out and sign almost unlimited amounts of depth. The Pirates can’t.
Nothing you posted is unusual, all minor league starters are on innings limits at that age to protect their arm (the asset). Ashcraft is more extreme because he returned from Tommy John this season. He’s on a strict low innings limit this season. The cuffs will come off next year.
You just admitted you’re simply ignoring data that contradicts your points. Hard to have a back and forth and debate if you just dismiss a counter argument backed up by facts “just because”.
Buc- Hard to have an arguement with someone who ignores facts.Springs,Rasmussen,and Baz on Rays team lost for all or most of the year,with Fleming and Glasgow missing significant periods.
The Dodgers and Rays were the best ones off the top of my head.I do not doubt that at least half the teams have lost what the Pirates have lost.
The Pirates lost Brubaker and Velasquez,two guys with mediocre at best success in ML starting pitching.
You can say that your three minor league pitchers will become good major league pitchers,but they have proven absolutely nothing in the minor leagues.
You conveniently did not mention the very small number of starts of said minor league pitchers.Talk about ignoring important information.
You are another poster who does not like to be called out on facts.
LOL you’re making stuff up now.
Small number of starts?
Ashcraft – 16
Jones – 17
Solometo – 18
Those are all the normal number of starts for their teams, none of them have been on the injured list this year.
You can say all you want that they haven’t proved anything in the minor leagues yet, but you’d be wrong. Two of them have won pitcher of the month in their respective league and are top 100 prospects. Not sure what else you want them to do in order to “prove themselves” to you.
Btw, two of the guys you mentioned for the Rays weren’t projected to be in their rotation, if they count so does Burrows for the Pirates since he would have been the first callup. Even if I give you the Rays, who cares? The Rays have been playing below .500 baseball for over 2 months now, they’re living off there hot start, What’s your point? That the Rays are in a better position than the Pirates and have more depth? You got me there lmao.
The point was that you distort facts to suit your agenda.
Rangers lost deGrom- Do you think that he is better than Brubaker and VV?
Yankees-Rodon and Manoah
Atlanta has had 12 different starters
Reds have been losing starters right and left.
Every team does.
And you in a previous discourse banked supposedly intelligent conversation on Brubaker and VV!
LMAO- There I can do it too .
The Pirates have all three of your minor league all stars on their top 30 list.All young pitchers,5,10,and 28.And of course the Pirates are one of the best young pitching sources in the ML’s.NOT!
What top 100 list did you invent?
They have minor league eras of 2.60,4.24,and 4.62.None have basically even pitched in AAA.
Do you work for the Pirates PR Department.
I doubt that there is a Dwight Gooden in There,but for the Pirates,they may be fine.
I really do hope that these pitchers work out well but there is a high attrition rate and the inevitable arm injuries happen.Plus ,they have not been around long enough to prove how good they are.
Keep on disagreeing and using your “facts” how you want to.
But it is clear to me that I have been wasting my time on these two threads dealing with someone who just cannot admit that others have better arguements and bona fine opinions.
Mendonza,
We’re done discussing anything if you keep making up statistics. None of your ERA’s are correct for this season. Either you don’t know how to use the tools, or you’re making stuff up and hoping nobody fact checks you.
You don’t have a better argument. You didn’t even know these guys existed until probably yesterday and have misrepresented all of the stats. You said they’d barely had any minor league starts (not true), and then completely made up ERA’s for them (they’re 2.58, 3.32, and 2.70 btw). Also, AAA isn’t the test, it’s AA. That’s why some prospects skip AAA entirely or only spend a few weeks there, it’s mostly MLB depth for most organizations (AAAA players).
I don’t care about large market teams, they can buy depth. Small market teams can’t.
Skenes: #6 on Baseball America, Will be top 10 on MLB Pipeline when they update their list, #7 on Fangraphs (who also have the Pirates ranked as the best farm system)
Jones: #75 on Baseball America
Priester: #57 on MLB Piperline, #81 on Fangraphs.
Solometo: #100 on MLB Pipeline and listed as “rising”.
Didn’t invent anything. You just claim anything that goes against you opinion is “made up”.
I use mlb.com.If these pitchers are as good as you say they are they would be on it.
The eras I used are career ones as they give a much better overall statistical base than 2/3 of a season.
I hope that those three are as good as you say they are but until they prove it in the upper minors over a decent amount of time,at least a year, they are just prospects.,nothing more.
Priester has made the majors and Skenes should be a no brainer.
There is no point in continuing this discourse.
Solometo is on mlb.com’s top 100 (That’s what MLB Pipeline is). So again, I don’t think you looked very closely.
The one I used has Jackson Jobe at 100.
It may not be the most up to date but MLB Prospects has Skenes on it at #10 so it is up to date with no Solometo..
I do not doubt what you are saying otherwise but my point is that these ratings are not always going to be accurate forecasters especially for lower level players and especially for pitchers,unless the player is very highly rated by all of these sites.
I don’t see Skenes, but Solometo is up to #90. This is from mlb.com:
mlb.com/prospects/top100/
I see Solometo now at #90 on the revised list but did not notice him before.
Scenes was on another revised list called Prospects and was surprised that he was not higher than #10.
We will see how this plays out with these young prospects.
Hill, see ya. Holderman, makes no sense to trade him now since his current value is lower than what it can be given some recent struggles.
I think it’s safe to say the bucs would accommodate any team who throws their hat in the hedges sweepstakes. Could be a throw in with hill too
Batter-It is easy to cap on a 177 hitter but Hedges has been a real help with the pitching staff.The Pirates were smart in getting Cutch,Hill,and Hedges to help with the young players.That is the reason why they will keep Hedges,to help Endy and perhaps Davis,unless someone offers them a reasonably good young player for him.
Don’t forget to include the recently departed Santana among that group. High praise on his end for helping clubhouse morale especially
Batter- I purposely left him off and knew that you would respond accordingly.
I was against signing him especially for that much money as they could gotten another decent starter for it.They got Choi before his signing and I thought that Choi was a decent player.
They signed Cutch at the last minute so BC May have thinking along your lines in getting Santana.
I do think that Santana was a plus but in the end another Rich Hill type starter would have given them more depth that they obviously do not have now
K
LOL, sure they are.
I think the Pirates would be smart to move either Davis or Rodriguez for help at another position, most likely pitching. Keeping both does nothing but diminish the value of both. Moving a catcher to right field takes away most of his value because his bat is usually not even as good as the average right fielder and his defensive value is all behind the plate. Look at how Kansas City has all but ruined MJ Melendez with the same tactic. There are teams out there (Cubs, Yankees, Marlins) that would pay a high price for a young catching prospect and I think the Pirates ought to strike while the iron is hot.
And the best part is that when trading prospect for prospect, all 29 teams come into play, not just “buyers” or “sellers.”
Both Davis and Rodriguez have bats that play elsewhere. They don’t just hit well “for a catcher”, they just hit well in general.
Rodriguez will mostly catch as he is the superior defensive catcher, but Davis’s bat plays in RF, at 1B, and at DH. He’ll still catch a couple days a week anyways.
The Pirates are doing the right thing, you don’t trade a good hitting prospect just because he plays the same position as another one. You simply move one of them to another position like they’re doing. Plus, catchers are injured regularly, so you can never have enough depth (Pirates fans know this better than most).
Well good luck to you then.
Trade away either of their two top new catchers just up??
Good God.
I’m not God, I just play him on TV.
I know Hedges is extremely frustrating to watch hit, and I’ve definitley seen Pirates pitchers with a better ability to hit. But I do commend the work he’s done with the pitching staff, and all the pitchers love him. Plus you can really tell a difference between someone who is as good as he is behind the plate compared to like Jason Delay, or last year with Andrew Knapp.
Just how bad would your catching situation need to be to trade FOR Hedges?
Hiflew-I was surprised that they do not seem to think that Davis is a ML catcher but they may have put him in right field to see how well he hits.They had a gigantic hole at catcher and that is the main reason why he was drafted number one.If he hits like an all star they may want to leave him in RF because catching is such a physically demanding position.
The Pirates need starting pitching and I think that Skenes will be a star if physically able.BC will get another scrap heap starter who pitches reasonably well but this is where Nutting needs to bite the bullet and sign someone like Sonny Gray.
With a new manager and several new coaches and farm director this team could contend next year in this weak division as long a BC does not do anything stupid.
I think that Davis will be the second or third catcher if Endy works out reasonably well.The Pirates need depth in order to actually compete.
I just do not have the confidence that this management team and owner really want to win,have fallen in love with the rebuild,and will not take the necessary steps that are needed to make this a winning team that can finally compete for the division title.
Once Hill is traded the focus will be on finding a taker for McCutchen. Possibly Philly or Oakland
You again.
They’re not trading Cutch. Give it a rest.
And Oakland? Really?
Yeah, this dude enjoys riling up the fanbase but I could actually see Cutch okaying a return to Philly. Don’t think it would happen but geographically it’s not a bad move and one last chance to be involved in a wild card run? Who could blame him?
Welcome back young man.
Not much to add these days, my friend but hey, this is the most wonderful time of year for Pirates fans.
Pillow-Slider just likes to get his digs in.
He is harmless.
Sometimes he has funny ones,but I have to believe that they are all in jest.
Lol Mets,
Maybe the Mets can trade them back Vogelbach for Holderman.
Who tf wants hedges?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Rays as we are getting very little defensively from the catcher position!! He may not hit over 150 but he will save us some runs!!
Teams are asking about a catcher that can’t hit even close to the Mendoza line?
I remember when he was on the Padres and him hitting 8th was like having two pitchers hit back to back.
James as I mentioned it would be for his defense and saving runs
Teams want Hedges for his D.
Trade them all, but if Keller gets dealt I’ll lose all faith
I’m in complete agreement now. Build around Davis, Endy, Cruz and Suwinski. Anyone else can go
I’ve lost all faith
As for Keller, I’m amazed at how many people are willing to overlook his past few starts which have featured him returning to those lovely days of throwing pitches dead red. It’s beyond troubling and hopefully just a mid-season blip
I just don’t see how they can build a functional rotation without him
if they won’t pay competent starting pitchers to stick around , there’s no point
He looked better last night, thankfully
Yes, and I’d agree again. He’s the only consistent starter that they currently have and likely will have for the next year or two.
They bent over backwards to sign Hayes and Reynolds, two dubious signings in retrospect. But if a signing was ever pressing, it’s this one
while I agree the extensions havent looked great, I’d say it’s a lot less dubious than the typical alternative options aka 38 year olds or AAAA guys
Go-While the Hayes and Reynolds extensions have not really provided big dividends,they were important messages that said that Nutting wanted to invest in the team.
I think that both players are tired of all the losing,which is understandable.
I also think that both have been adversely affected by their back tightness.
Both of these guys are good players but are limited as far as being consistent all stars.I do think that both will play better in the future and hopefully prove that the signings were not in error.
agreed. they’re long term extensions so have them when they have great seasons too.
Not going to be over critical of short term results in a longterm plan, even tho in not preferable
and although the Hayes contract has Mr a little worried of a Gregory Polanco situation,
They’re 2 completely different players.. Both have injury prone tags, but Gregory was an uber athletic guy with all the potential to be a star but lacked certain fundamentals.
Hayes is a guy who’s very skilled at 3B , and tho may never be an overwhelming talent, he’s shown the ability to produce some power and speed on the basepaths.
Hayes is a safer bet to live up to the contract, where as Polanco was a wildcard to either vastly out-play his earnings or bust as a raw talent that never reached potential.
Who would be checking in on Hedges? The orioles? Giants? Why?
SD-Nobody would want him because his real talent is working with young pitchers and a trade now would not give him enough time to get acquainted with a new pitching staff.
Is Connor Joe losing playing time now that Davis is up, or does he still have a clear path to playing time? How available would he be? It seems a few teams are looking for right handed platoon bats.
Yeah, he is getting a spot start every once in awhile but I’d say Davis being in RF and looking like the real deal has limited his opportunities. Clear path? No
I’d have to think he’d be available to any team looking for that right handed bat
Kid-Joe is not playing because he is not a particularly good player.He was insurance for first base and a right handed hitting outfielder.They have young players now who need the playing time.
He is one player who I would take anything in return.
Hill and Hedges should not be traded unless they get someone close to what was received for Santana.
Hedges is a mentor for both Endy and Davis.Hill is an innings eater on a bad team with less than paper thin depth in starting pitching.
I’m going to predict Hill, Joe and Choi all go in the grand Pirates fashion. The only reason I don’t list Hedges is I’m not sure there’s any real market for him
Mendoza, I think there’s a market for a guy like that who is really good against left handed pitching. He’s got a 138 wRC+ against lefties and it looks to be supported by the peripheral numbers. Lane Thomas is a popular name right now but it sounds like Washington might really like him and want to keep him. O’Neill or Carlson are other names but it’s not clear how likely they are to be moved. I think Joe looks like a guy you could argue is as good a bet as those guys to help a roster looking for situationally useful players. I’m coming from a Toronto perspective where we’ve been treated to a 77 wRC+ performance left vs left this year. I think the Phillies and Dodgers are also looking for right handed bats.
Kid, you’re right, of course. A guy like Joe or a few others might flourish given the right team and different mindset as to what he is supposed to do
Here, his failures are magnified as being a part of an ultra anemic offense that seemingly has few answers game in and game out. Last night is a good example, as a good start by Keller was wasted once again.
Kid- You may very well be correct on this opinion.The Pirates’ manager did not seem to want to platoon at several positions where it could have been beneficial.Joe indeed seems to be able to hit left handed pitchers well.Inasmuch as he is much younger than Santana and controllable perhaps they should at least get a player like the one that Santana was traded for.Maybe they can showcase him to the Phillies in the current series!
I agree that Shelton was reluctant to platoon. But I chalked that up to it was more important for the big picture of our organization to see what exactly Joe (and Castro) could and couldn’t do, than it was to maximize the game to game effectiveness during a season in which we weren’t realistically gonna compete for the playoffs. It was super frustrating to watch especially as teams like the giants make platooning work. But….now we know that we can have both leave the org without a high risk of ex post facto regret.
Touch-I will have to respectfully disagree.
This is just another area where Shelton is not a ML manager.
If both these players can hit lefthanders reasonably well but not righthanders,play them against lefthanders only.It also frees up time for other players.
If you find better players ,fine,but at least you will get a decent player in return when you inevitably trade them.
The Pirates are not nearly good enough to not maximize their resources.Plus it gives the team a better chance to actually win games,which,by now,should very well be a prime priority.
But it is not.
On the broadcast yesterday the Booth said Ben said that Davis will be catching after the deadline. Decent clue that they have some promising interest in Hedges.
Joe-Maybe.I am of the unpopular opinion though that they should keep both him and Hill because they will not get anything for either and they both serve purposes.Hill,because their starting pitching is paper thin,and Hedges to act as a mentor to the two young catchers.
I am working the phones late tonight. By 6pm Tuesday I got Hedges going to Tampa or NY. Hill Boston or Arizona.
Bob wants that $. Hedges mentored enough and they want Davis to get reps and Delay spent all that time with Hedges so he should know something. Alldred has been sitting at AAA all year. Ortiz will need another look. Lots of guys getting dfa to pick up.
Hope Choi is traded. Seattle is perfect fit.
Don’t see teams paying for our non rentals but can dream on some team going crazy.
Can’t believe you all are still going at it. Get that Hill trade down so you can move over there.