Orioles manager Brandon Hyde told reporters, including Dan Connolly of sportsnaut.net, today that right-handed flamethrower Grayson Rodriguez is slated to start tomorrow’s game against the Dodgers.
A consensus top ten prospect in the sport entering the 2023 campaign, Rodriguez first received the call to the big leagues early this season but struggled badly across ten starts, with a 7.35 ERA and 5.93 FIP in 45 1/3 innings of work. That performance saw him optioned to the minors at the end of May. In seven starts since returning to Triple-A, Rodriguez has dominated to the tune of a 1.69 ERA with a fantastic 36.5% strikeout rate in 37 1/3 innings of work. That level of dominance indicates that Rodriguez has little else to gain from additional reps in the minors, making today’s news that Rodriguez will return to the big league rotation a natural next step.
If Rodriguez is able to live up to the promise of his Triple-A results and prospect pedigree at the major league level, it would be nothing short of transformative for the Orioles’ rotation. While strong performances in the lineup and bullpen have propelled the club to an excellent 56-35 record so far this season, a mediocre rotation has held the club back in their pursuit of the division-leading Rays for the AL East crown. Orioles starts rank just 18th in the majors in ERA and bottom five in the AL in terms of fWAR this season, with the likes of Tyler Wells, Kyle Bradish, and Kyle Gibson offering performances closer to serviceable than dominant.
By calling up Rodriguez two weeks before the trade deadline on August 1, the Orioles will be able to see the 23-year-old hurler make multiple starts before trade season comes to an end. That’ll give the club valuable information about how much he can be relied on to make an impact for the club as Baltimore eyes a return to postseason play for the first time since 2016. The Orioles have long been expected to add to their rotation ahead of the coming trade deadline, but a dominant showing from the youngster could give the club’s front office additional confidence in pursuing a top-of-the-market option such as Marcus Stroman, Lucas Giolito or Jordan Montgomery to pair with Rodriguez at the front of the club’s rotation.
Rodriguez is already on the 40-man roster, but a corresponding move will nonetheless be required prior to tomorrow’s game in order to make room for the right-hander on the active roster. Connolly notes that left-hander Cole Irvin will move to the bullpen going forward to make room for Rodriguez in the club’s rotation. After being acquired from the A’s in an offseason trade, Irvin had a disastrous start to his Orioles career with a 10.66 ERA across his first three starts of the season. That led the club to demote him in early April, though in 25 innings of work in the big leagues since then he’s posted a far more palatable 2.88 ERA and 4.04 FIP. He figures to offer the Orioles a solid multi-inning option out of the bullpen going forward.
Time to sink or swim
Yes, of course. As a 23 year old, this is his last possible chance to show he can be a major league player….
Smh I really wasn’t saying that
He’s got a 1.96 ERA in 8 starts at AAA. And the Orioles have won 7 in a row. I guess even the cheap Orioles had to call him up at this point.
Where are those Orioles fans I was arguing with last week that said they dont want Paul Goldschmidt? Do you want him now?
I think the Cardinals have what the Orioles want and need, regardless of Goldschmidt. But unless Cowser is coming back I don’t think the Orioles have what the Cardinals need.
It looks like the Cardinals could use any help they can get
Yeah Dave after 16 years it looks like the Cardinals are going to have a losing season finally. And instead of having discussions about what kind of trades can be worked out people want to tell me how great their prospects are instead.
Elias doesn’t want to trade prospects for pitching. Reportedly GRod was dealing with the lingering effects of a lat injury that were leading to elevated walk and home run rates during the spring and early season.
The Orioles trading for offense, even Goldschmidt, is highly unlikely. Mountcastle has been arguably the unluckiest hitter in baseball so they’ll give him a chance to turn it around. Mayo, Kjerstad and Cowser have all been considered for first base at one point in the past.
Montgomery could be a useful rotation upgrade but I doubt the Orioles give up Cowser and more for him.
I am thinking Montgomery and more for Cowser. What the Cardinals need more than anything is pitching but the Orioles don’t have that except Rodriguez who I assume is off limits. But the Cardinals do need a left hitting center fielder and Cowser is that guy.
The Cardinals won’t get the O’s #2 org prospect for a rental mid rotation arm “and more”. And the Orioles have DL Hall, Cade Povich, and Seth Johnson for arms. I did like your idea of Goldschmidt to the O’s in past posts. But I’m not sure the O’s would even trade Cowser in a deal for Goldy + Monty. They’re probably more inclined to trade from their glut of young IF’s.
Guilder I do think the Orioles might make more sense as a trade partner for another team. If the only thing they want to deal is middle infielders which they do have plenty of then that’s not a deal the Cardinals will want to make.
But I look around the league at who could use Goldschmidt the most and I see the Orioles. And Jordan Walker belongs at 1b I think the team knows this even if they won’t day it publicly. So it could make sense.
Yes, although I think a LH bat would be a better fit, Goldys veteran bat in the middle of the lineup would be great for them. Especially for a playoff run.
I don’t know how much you value the opinion of baseball trade values, but Goldy, Montgomery, plus paying half of Goldys 2024 salary is the value of Cowser alone.
I think the Orioles match up better with the Cubs for Bellinger + Hendricks/Stroman.
I am not sure the Cubs are a good match either. They don’t need middle infielders although perhaps a 3b.
Yes the deal with paying half of Goldschmidts salary sounds fair to me.
Ready for some trades. Glad you are ready too. It’s crazy to me how many fans don’t want to see their team make a move to try and win in 2023. Guardian and Mariner fans have been the same way the last couple weeks. I just don’t get it.
This deadline will certainly be exciting. Not many true sellers. And some teams somewhere in the middle are gonna be buying and selling.
I agree. I think some fans get too satisfied with being a playoff contender with really good prospects as oppose to a world series contender with a solid farm system. There’s no reason teams like Cleveland,Baltimore,Arizona,and Miami should stand pat. I’m not saying sell the farm and be irresponsible. But don’t be satisfied with just making the playoffs. Give yourself an extra leg in the race.
The Orioles don’t need a first baseman and certainly aren’t trading Colton Cowser for one (unless maybe the Dodgers suddenly decide to jettison Freddie Freeman for some bizarre reason and also offer to eat half the contract).
Mullins and now Hicks were both injured over the weekend. Your chances of getting Cowser are Slim and None!
Its not that the Orioles necessarily need a first baseman. But the fact they’re a contender this year and Goldy has produced over 1 WAR better than their 1B’s this year shows how much of an upgrade he’d be. According to FanGraphs to Orioles 1B production ranks 17th to the Cardinals (Goldy) at 3rd. I think Mountcastle is a great young piece of their core. But why’s it too outlandish to say the Orioles could upgrade at 1B by acquiring a guy like Goldy and then use Mountcastle to get a controllable SP like the Bader for Montgomery trade? Maybe Mountcastle, Hall, and one of their young IF’s lands you Cease? Hypotheticals are all in the fun of deadline season
The Orioles don’t have starting pitching? Bradish and Wells are 7th and 8th in the AL in ERA. Wells leads in both WHIP and BA against. Bradish has an ERA of 1.30 in his last 5 starts. Dean Kremer is second in the AL in wins.
Those mediocre starters were their starters last year when they missed the wild card by 2 games.
Wells might give up 40 home runs this year. He has an FIP of 4.64 with a Whip under 1 that’s hard to do.
Shhh, you’ll ruin the narrative that the O’s need starters… not middle relief…
The only prospects the Orioles will be giving up is Mayo, Ortiz, Hall. Nothing much more.
Elias was literally on the air talking about how he doesn’t see a need to improve the postion players. And that he could see adding an arm.
They are not trading for Goldschmidt. 0% chance.
Goldschmidt has a no trade clause he would actually have to want to play in Baltimore. The likelihood of a trade was never that high but to say the Orioles couldn’t use him is ignorant.
Again I actually like the Orioles. But the front office being cheap and the fans saying silly stuff is a turn off.
@Milky I think they’re going to be targeting 1 solid rental SP for the stretch that won’t cost anything crazy. I could see them grabbing Jordan Montgomery
It still has nothing to do with money, his service clock already started and he is on the 40 man. I’m not entirely convinced you aren’t just an AI scraping the site with the complete lack of intelligence you exude.
The cardinals have nothing of value.
The Cardinals have nothing of value?
That’s false. Why say silly things like that? What’s the point?
They have better players at exactly two positions than the orioles.
The orioles have pieces that play at 90% of the production, and prospects to fill the rest.
They have nothing of value.
The real question is if the Cards trade Goldy. Monty and Flaherty along with DeJong can definitely bring back some pieces
The Orioles don’t need starting pitching help?
Goldschmidt, last years freaking MVP, he’s not better than Mountcastle?
Pen help?
Why be lame. Just be fair. Be honest.
If Goldschmidt wanted to play for Baltimore, he has a NTC, I would be cool with trading him in a deal for Cowser. But he’s making 26 million this year and next I doubt the Orioles will pay they are pretty cheap.
They won’t give up 6 years of the future for a 1.5 year guy that holds back Kjerstad.
Again it’s not about the money.
Who would be holding Kjerstad back?
Isn’t Kjerstad projected to be ready mid season next year????
Kjerstad is projected for September of this year.
A year of Goldschmidt holds him back.
Kjerstad is no sure thing to be called up in Septmember
Even if he is he also plays outfield. And there is a DH.
I don’t get it. Your team has a shot to win it all in 2023 and all people want to talk about is how great the prospects are.
Goldschmidt was last years MVP. He wouldn’t be blocking ANYONE he’s a stud any team would be happy to have.
Orioles fans (in general) aren’t super interested in Goldschmidt because he does not fill an obvious need for the Orioles or represent a significant upgrade over what is already on the Orioles’ roster. O’Hearn (.912 OPS vs. RHPs) and Mountcastle (1.028 OPSvs. LHPs) are already on hand and make for a pretty stout 1B platoon. Goldschmidt would potentially be a downgrade honestly.
And Kjerstad has been getting a lot of work at 1B this year, which is why he’s increasingly seen as the O’s 1B of the future.
Goldschmidt is only signed through 2024. That doesn’t hurt your future. And there is a DH. Santander has only 1 year of control left. Mountcastle is just not that good. There is room for last years MVP to act as if there isn’t is insane.
Anyways it’s not like that’s all the Cardinals have to offer.
We will see what happens. For your sake you better hope the Orioles do something. Get em next year can’t be the saying every single year.
He’ll be ready opening day.
O’s aren’t starting Mountcastle anymore unless it’s against LHP. They’re starting O’Hearn who has been quite good. And they sometimes start Santander at 1B too like yesterday. 1B is not a major concern for them right now though that could change if anyone else gets hurt.
Any team would want Goldy. But he’s not a must get player for the Os. We have enough bats. Starting pitching is what we need. Getting Goldy would be nice but not for the asking price.
Jordan Montogomery is one of the best starters available. He’s a Cardinal.
Make an offer that makes sense.
Any of the top 5 prospects probably not on the table for a rental. That would include Cowser, he’s a starter now and with Mullins injury more valuable.
At some point you have to stop worrying about prospects and make a move to win it all. The Orioles have a legit chance to do that in 2023.
I dont see what else the Orioles have that the Cardinals would want or need. They have a lot of infielders but that’s not a need for the Cardinals.
Nothing makes sense for a Lefty that can’t pitch in AL east ballparks… on an AL east team…And has awful peripherals.
He used to play for the Yankees and pitched well for them
His peripherals are great.
You are just making things up.
The O’s have an abundance of infielders and not many places to play them. If the Cards don’t need infielders than the O’s aren’t a good trade partner. They don’t really have mlb ready outfielders outside of Cowser who is now starting.
No, he did not pitch well. All of the AL east parks are in the top half of highest OPS he has allowed. His peripherals are not great. They are good. He is a #3/4. The orioles have 6 of those.
i.imgur.com/Nre3t7W.png
He, very similarly to stroman, does not make sense for an AL East team.
I am pretty sure plenty of teams are going to want Montgomery.
This is insane. Your team has a chance to win it all and all you want to talk about is prospects.
I actually like the Orioles but you are honestly making me want to root against them.
We will see what happens. When was the last time the Orioles won it all? I don’t think I was alive then.
This is not that point. The team is well ahead of schedule and they aren’t beating the Braves this year no matter who they add. They can afford to be patient and find out which prospects are keepers.
This is exactly when teams make trades they regret for a decade.
So you think the Os beat the Braves in a 7 game series?
Not beating the Braves?????
Dude. Come on. Have some confidence.
@tuck if you’re asking me, they take them to game 6, and lose, regardless of pitching acquisition.
They should have swept them in atlanta this year but the pen pooped itself, and will do it again.
It’s very hard to beat a juggernaut.
Especially one with a huge amount of playoff experience vs none.
This season is about getting some of that experience.
If the Orioles made it to the World Series it would be HUGE for their franchise. The team would make a ton of money from all those playoff games and a lot more from all the new fans that have been waiting to support a winner. I don’t mean the nerds like me and you talking on this site I mean the casual fan.
You get in the playoffs and you never know what can happen. That’s how it works. Maybe it’s been so long you forgot but that’s how it works.
King – As others have said, Goldy is great. MVP. But offense isn’t the issue. And Monty isn’t a significant upgrade over Wells/Bradish. If Monty was a true TOR SP, then maybe Cowser scratches that itch. But just because he’s “one of the best starters available” doesn’t mean Elias (not you or me) will over pay. He’s the guy who traded key players last year when we were in a playoff hunt then too. I bet he’d trade Cowser for Tink Hence or Andrew Painter before Montgomery.
Here’s an offer Creed Willems, a power hitting catcher and Jean Pinto right-handed starting pitcher..
I don’t ‘recall’ Grayson, but my memory is not what it used to be
The Orioles are quite simply not trading any of their top prospects for half a season of Jordan Montgomery, and they are not trading them for 1.5 years of an elderly Paul Goldschmidt when they have O’Hearn, Mountcastle, Santander, Mayo, Kjerstad, and other top hitting prospects that could play 1B soon on the way.
It’s just wishful thinking for you, King of Cards. End of story.
Why would we NEED or WANT to trade one of our top prospects for a 35 year old 1st baseman when the righty/lefty platoon of Ryan’s we have combine for a .259 avg,,.and more R, XBH, HR’s, and RBI’s at a fraction of the cost? No thanks…we will keep Cowser and our platoon 1st basemen. You keep your old man. Don’t get your feelings hurt over it.
Last years MVP
Again your team is fighting for first place. And all you can talk about his how great Cowser is or Ryan OHearn who btw was awful for years prior to 2023 and has no defensive value at all.
They won’t trade Goldschmidt anyways. But to act as if you don’t want him or he doesn’t make your team better is ridiculous.
Part of the package for with Samuel Basallo and a few other prospects for Giolito and Anderson?
If the O’s trade with the White Sox, they want Cease.
A lot of O’s fans would disagree, but Rodriguez and Mateo for Cease might be fair. Sox fans probably disagree. If you want pitching from the O’s, you’re going to have to look lower, like Drew Rom of Brnovich and an infielder as part of the return.
Anderson would be DFA’d by the O’s. They’re selling middle infielders, not buying.
Giolito makes plenty of sense for the Orioles
But the White Sox already stated that Cease, Jiminez, Robert and Vaughn are off the table! So there goes your thoughts for the Orioles getting Cease from the White Sox.
Teams say that all the time, it’s just to keep the asking price up.
They will move on from them if they are competent in the FO, but it is the white sox, so given the incompetence they may actually stay.
The O’s would be stupid to trade Grayson Rodriguez, especially for Dylan Cease.
The orioles need pitching depth, there is no world where Grayson is dealt
Why would the orioles want Tim Anderson???? And you aren’t getting Samuel Basallo for Giolito straight up.
Come on curt, everyone knows the selling team gets to shed salary not the buying team!
(Sarcasm to be clear)
23 years old flame thrower. Everyone knows by now how this usually goes but hopefully this guy can avoid injury and be a good starter for years to come.
Grayson is a huge, the flame throwers who have fared the worst or those of smaller stature putting more torque in arm. Grayson gets a lot of power from lower body and has a fairly smooth delivery through arm.
That sounds positive. Hope it works out for him.
I think the O’s trade for Michael Kopech. Probably send Joey Ortiz back.
The White Sox are trading soon to be free agents not Kopech. Rentals. That’s what makes sense.
Cool man. I think differently.
So does Mike Elias hearing his interviews…
Wells Bradish are extremely talented and just as underrated as they are talented.
Kremer is also developing nicely. Just more experience needed. The Os have brought along these three nicely.
Add Rodriguez a healthy Means and maybe an addition you’re set. Got Gibson as a fall back too.
I have noticed what the Os have done with the three. Wells Bradish and Kremer starting second half of 2021 through 2022. Paying off now. They recognized the talent. They let them pitch. Didn’t pull them the moment they got into trouble. Say 4th and 5th inning with runners on. They let them learn and pitch out of jams. And they were learning you can’t develop pitchers by pulling them as soon as they get into trouble. Kudos to the Os
Another uninformed post by a writer who has likely never seen Bradish, Wells or Kremer pitch “performances closer to serviceable than dominant”. Wells lowest WHIP and second lost BA against, Kremer 10 wins and his ERA is inflated by 3 sub par starts and Bradish has been nothing short of dominant since May.
Remarkable that a team is about to go 22 games over 500 with such poor pitching. I wish people would just do their job.
Not to say Os can’t use another arm or two because these young guys are approaching their career innings marks.
Oh come on dude
Put that rotation as it stands today against any other contender in baseball and it comes up short.
You say the innings limit part at the end as if that’s no big deal. I would say that’s incredibly important.
I swear some of you guys truly don’t understand what it takes to win games or what it takes to be a successful franchise.
O’s keep winning so maybe you’re the one who doesn’t know what it takes.
The Cardinals haven’t had a losing season or been sellers at the deadline since 2007. That’s a fact look it up. My team has spent years and years trading away young talent for the chance to win it all. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. But it’s been a fun ride regardless.
Name 5 better rotations top to bottom. Not one ace – but 5 starters that have been consistently as good as these guys since May. I’m not saying they shouldn’t add – just taking exception to “serviceable”! – they have been much better than that. Middle relief has been a much bigger issue – and Cano has not been the same for the last few weeks. They likely need a true 8th inning guy as much as a starter.
Plus you are talking about guys like Stroman – not exactly like adding Justin Verlander.
Finally I think dumping prospects to rent a starter is EXACTLY how you DON’T build a successful franchise. It’s how you forget your long term plan to try to chase a championship you are not ready to win anyway.
So, I wouldn’t go there.
Since May????
The Orioles have a rotation filled with maybe guys has been or never were. If they are pitching better recently great but that’s not a rotation you trust in October.
I root for a successful franchise the Cardinals. I know what a successful franchise looks like. I truly don’t think you do. First time in 16 years my team is selling and all you want to talk about is how great your team is and that it doesn’t need help to win it all. You don’t get it.
The orioles are the only team in the majors with 4 starters with more than 8 Qualitiy starts btw.
Top to bottom its the most balanced in the league.
I’m pretty sure 4 have 9 QS now too.
They are not at the end of a win now window, hence why they do not need to buy extravagant rentals.
They are the beginning of a long window. That’s where you buy the long term cornerstones.
Cease, Kopech, Keller etc.. all make sense.
Not rentals.
That’s kind if a vague and rude statement don’t you think?
Last 15 years the Cardinals have been buyers. This year we are sellers. And all anyone wants to tell me is how great their prospects are. I suggested the Cardinals trade LAST YEARS MVP. Is that entitled???? And people responded by saying how they don’t need Goldschmist and Cowser is great.
I know what it takes to win in October I learned by watching my team do it for years.
My team??? Do you own the team?
Great pitchers have to start somewhere. You are being rude and antagonistic. The Cardinals have had great teams and so have the Orioles. The Orioles just have not had as much luck as the Cardinals over the years recently. We Orioles fans are rejoicing in a potential new wave of excellence. Like I said, great pitchers have to start somewhere and currently ours are starting to be excellent
Dude the Orioles don’t have any great pitchers except maybe eventually Rodriguez.
You can trade for good players to help you win now. That’s what good teams do. Maybe you haven’t seen it in so long in Baltimore you forgot but that’s how it works.
blefary, please never respond with that again. Astros are my team, cards are his. We all know perfectly well what that means
Its the same group as always “You didn’t buy the name brand so we don’t like them and they suck.”
More of olneys endless drivel.
The name brands are name brands for a reason. It’s because they have proven over time they are a good product and worth buying.
Yeah, buying name brands sure has helped the mets, red sox, yankees, padres, cardinals, cubs, white sox.
That time is over. The young ones are far more athletic now.
The era of 10 and 5 rights is nearing its end.
How many championships do those teams you mentioned have in the last 20 years?
It’s a big number. Look it up…..
Mets zero, Padres Zero, Cards 1 (Since they started spending on brand names, the championships were mostly homegrown), Yankees 1, White Sox Zero.
Red Sox 3 (Fully homegrown for the first 2)
Cubs 1 (Fully homegrown, failed after buying name brands)
3 out of 20. when not buying old declining players.
Wait thats just about average for 6 teams to have 15% of them…
Wait a second….
It doesn’t matter. There’s too much Parody….
You are making things up
tuck 2;
In fact it’s been the starting pitching that’s been keeping the O’s in games. It was the failure of the rest of the bullpen to provide a bridge to the 2 guys in the back-end that caused the O’s problems for a month previous to starting this winning streak. And during the winning streak it’s been the mid-innings relievers that have begun doing their job – not knock-out, but decent.
Yep. These guys must never watch games, let alone look at box scores.
Is the Os rotation good, average or bad? Heck if I know. But I do know this, other than Braddish taking one on the toe and missing two weeks back in April, the rotation has been remarkable healthy. Fingers crossed they stay that way. If they do trade for a quality SP, may he have playoff experience as well.
Bullpen is another story. Need a 2nd set up guy to get to Bautista. Cano alone is sketchy.
The rotation has been a bit similar to last year. Pretty average the beginning of the year but pitching much better beginning late June early July. Lately, it’s been the bullpen that has been a bit more worrisome, like in today’s game.
Exactly what I was thinking! Wells and Bradish have been great, especially recently. They are developing well and performing on a level that I think the club is very satisfied with. All teams can improve and contending teams looking to make deep runs in the postseason should do more than due diligence, but to say that they have been “serviceable” isn’t giving them the credit they deserve.
A little surprised they aren’t going with a 6 man rotation to limit innings on Wells, Bradish, Kremer, GRod. All are at or near career high in innings already
Could still happen if Grayson does well
@tuck
I expect them to move to a 6 man after the deadline depending on who they get.
Doesn’t make sense to mess with rhythm before you know what you’re working with.
Agree
Runs allowed in Bradish’s last 6 starts including 7 shut out so far today – 0,0,1,,2,2,1,
That seems closer to dominant than serviceable.
Yet Mr. Deeds says he’s mediocre!
All you need to do is watch todays game to understand what Os need. With Bautista Bauman and Cano out today they start Bastardo in the 9th and 5-0 becomes 5-4.
They need bullpen help more than anything. Everyone is mesmerized by the back end, but with the injuries they have they need 2 more arms out there
Exactly! The rotation can compete. We need another reliever
Means should help in middle relief but i still want 2 more yeah.
tuck 2;
Yes, as I replied above, you’re correct again.
I stated 2-3 weeks ago that they needed more arms in the bullpen.
This is the first real year the O’s are competing out of their rebuild. They’re a small market team and have to develop their own to be sustainable contenders for the next 5-7 years. Developing pitchers always takes longer than developing position players.
The O’s are not going to package up 2-3 of their top prospects that may well become stars, for 2 months of a rent-a-starter that they very probably will not be able to afford to resign.
Most of what you read here is Rotisserie League thinking – both in the articles and the comments. Quality MLB franchises have long-term business plans based on considerations such as their future revenue. Putting the same criteria on potential team moves is fine in your fantasy league where everyone starts out the year with the same amount of play money to spend, but real world FO’s are driven by reality, which includes what their plans are for future years.
I’ve been saying for weeks what the O’s need at the deadline is 2 stud delivers. The absence of Givens and Tate has hurt big time along with the regression and current absence of Perez.
Every team even the Tigers, Rockies, Royals and A’s have good relievers who can be gotten cheap.
Ship Mateo and #20 prospect for one and Urias and #20 prospect for the other.
Now you have a solid 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th inning arm. Plus teams rarely play 3 days in a row in the postseason.
You’d just be asking your starters to go 5 IP with 3ER or less and you would have a great chance of winning the game.
Wells, Bradish and Kremer have earned my confidence. Wells 3.11 ERA .091 WHIP, Bradish 3.05 ERA 1.10 WHIP and Kremer is 10-4 despite a couple of bad starts months ago that still have his ERA over 4. These guys are legit and just as good as what people want to give up blue chip prospects for. Trust me when I say the O’s won’t do that for anyone who isn’t named Ohtani.
djost;
Yes, they need relievers.
No, the O’s are not trading a Mateo and /or Urias for a Gregory
Soto or Joe Jimenez that’s having a good year.
They’re not desperate and have no reason to be.
If anything, their MO has been to find a reliever that’s under-
performing for a team or their AAA affiliate, and having their
coaches work with them. It’s how they got the 2 All-Stars at the
back of their bullpen.
Oh, I would disagree. They need two guys who are in the back end of a BP for a team that’s selling. Put those guys into the 5th-6th-7th inning. This is short-term. We need those guys soon.
You’re probably right, I just want Mateo and Urias out of here and call up Ortiz and Norby.
Norby and Frazier R/L platoon at 2b and a combination of Henderson, Westburg and Ortiz on the left side.
Well, MLBTR has always been metrics focused and that’s how you get Tyler Wells and his 23rd ranked ERA in all of MLB as serviceable. Wells is on pace for 4 bWAR season right now by limiting hard contact, striking out 25% of hitters and walking very few.
Wells’ fastball is pretty elite in movement and it enhances the chase rate on his other pitches where it’s a whiff or poor contact contributing to his excellent xBA and elite xOBP.
With all due respect Mr. Deeds, the Orioles rotation is not mediocre! You can spread that word to all the other writers on your site. You don’t get to 22 games over.500 in the AL East, in the middle of July with a mediocre rotation.
Yes it’s mediocre. The only starter with an FIP under 3.9 is Braddish and his is 3.60. That’s not a championship rotation dude it really isnt
Do you ever quit talking about a team you know very little about?
I don’t watch the Orioles but I look at stats. Orioles won 7 in a row before today. 2 games behind Tampa who just lost 7 in a row recently.
Don’t you want to win????
You finally admit to not watching or knowing anything outside of stats.
Explains your flawed views.
Balitmore starting rotation, MLB ERA rank (%), xFIP rank(%) of 133 starters with 50+ innings.
#1 – Bradish – #19 (85th%), #35 (73rd%)
#2 – Wells – #34 (74th%), #73 (45th%)
#3 – Kremer – #90 (32nd%), #67 (49th%)
#4 – Gibson – #98 (26th%), #83 (47th%)
The Orioles could really use a 3rd starter, but Baltimore has the best bullpen in baseball..
Also, stop using FIP on it’s own. It’s can be a totally garbage stat.
FIP is the stat to tell the true ability of a pitcher. ERA is what happened. FIP is what should have happened everything else being neutral.
Thats not a contending teams playoff rotation there.
No. It’s not. I get that you read something on the internet so you’ve decided it must be true, but you’re wrong.
1) FIP assumes all pitchers give up exactly the same type of contact. They don’t. Not even close. There are ground ball pitchers, fly ball pitchers, pitchers who give up hard contact and pitchers who don’t. FIP lumps them all together.
2) FIP doesn’t even balance the luck of home runs. Home run per fly ball rates are usually pretty consistent so pitchers with elevated HR/FB rates can usually be expected to correct the variance over time, and for FIP, home runs are devastating.
3) Even even xFIP doesn’t adjust for pop ups vs regular fly balls meaning a pitcher who generates a ton of pop-ups gets screwed (i.e. Tyler Wells)..
You don’t know what you’re talking about, but you sure sound like you think you do.
Name a pitcher and we can discuss how FIP and ERA operate.
How about Greg Madddux?
Look him up. Then we can talk.
I just explained out FIP works and how it can be flawed. What do I need to talk to you about? Are you asking me to also explain ERA to you?
Also, if you’re going to use Greg Maddux as an example of how FIP is accurate, maybe look at a better example. Maddux outperformed his FIP by an average of nearly 20% beating his FIP in 10 of 11 straight years at one point.
Greg Maddux career FIP 3.26
Career ERA 3.16
I mentioned him simply because he pitched a lot of innings.
Show me a pitcher who has consistently outperformed his FIP and doesn’t happen to play in front of a great defense. Show me this pitcher.
Greg Maddux. 1992-2002 11 consecutive years, 362 starts. 2,576.1 innings.
ERA = 2.47. FIP = 2.84.
10 out of those 11 seasons, Maddux beat his FIP.. I really shouldn’t have to spell this out for you.
Maddux changed dramatically as a pitcher over his career. In the twilight, as his velocity dropped, he started giving up more hard contact and more line drives and guess what happened? Things reversed themselves and his ERA was worse than his FIP.
2003-2008 6 consecutive years
ERA = 4.13, FIP = 3.75
Every single year his FIP was better than his ERA.
Why? Because the type of contact matters. Whether a fly ball is a pop-up or a ball which travels 350 feet and bounces off a wall back into the field, matters. Ground balls vs. line drives, vs. fly balls matters. FIP doesn’t know ANY of that. FIP says every single pitcher is identical. They pitch the exact same way. They give up the exact same contact when balls are put into play. That’s what you don’t get. This is not the hill for you to die on.
FIP is heavily overrated when taken as a singular point of reference.
Maddux didn’t change. The defense behind him did.
When I hear “serviceable” I think “league average”. If you have a good rotation, then the bottom 2-3 guys should be pitching league average. Please take this definition in the below.
Wells has got to be the most unimpressive sub 1 WHIP guy in 20 years. FIP suggests luck.
But he’s league average for sure, with above average results. So far..
I have to upgrade Bradish to at least a #3 starter on pretty much any rotation at this point. Gibson and Kremer aren’t much. I am breaking out the “I told you so” for the big exciting acquisition of the winter Irvin (garbage). For arguments above, let’s not take anyone with bad flyball splits and/or poor results against AL East.
Rodriguez has 83 innings between AAA and MLB. What do you suppose is his innings limit? 130? 140? That would be 9-12 starts. If he’s figured it out, great. Glad they are going to try and find out. If he has, and he pitches league average stuff or better, they’ve accomplished what they would by trade without having given up anything.
Anything productive Means can do coming off injury like that should be looked at as a bonus. I don’t know how people can think he can jump in and dominate. Give the guy a break.
Remember, the Orioles are likely one of the most prospect-hugging teams in MLB even at this point of being competitive. I can see them parting with low to mid level prospects for a reliever or two (can always use those, and relievers come cheap). I would be completely surprised if they made a move for an above average starter, they’d have to give up something – though any above average starter would be a #1 or #2 in the Orioles rotation.
I think Mountcastle and O’Hearn are going to platoon 1B until Kjerstad becomes established. Mateo is tradeable if the trade partner doesn’t mind a guy who can’t hit…Urias can be the utility IF. The OF is solid. It is more likely the Orioles trade for offense than a starter, but still on the unlikely side overall.
They see themselves as well positioned, just needing depth (relievers) and don’t want to pay up to receive a big piece.
I don’t think it’s true the Orioles are really a prospect hugging team. In the past they traded Eduardo Rodriguez and Josh Hader — both of which they’d love to have back. Also, they weren’t prospects anymore, but they also traded Jake Arrieta and Kevin Gausman. And the O’s came up on the losing end of pretty much all those trades — though that’s not unusual for a buying team.
“If you have a good rotation, then the bottom 2-3 guys should be pitching league average.”
Thornton Mellon;
That’s what many think, but it’s a myth.
Most MLB teams today – including contenders – have just 3, and often just 2 consistent / quality starters. Their #4 and 5 starters are changing constantly.
Everything is relative. Despite what the writers and posters state here as a weakness that must be overcome, somehow the O’s are one game out of 1st place in the toughest division in MLB. and have the 3rd highest winning percentage in MLB.
Samuel
Not correct for quality. Agree with you on back end changing constantly with injuries but most contenders put something out there better than Irvin, Gibson, and Kremer on their back ends.
TB: 3 above average (McClanahan is ace-level). Their #4 and #5 has been piecemeal but overall at or above average production
ATL: 3 well above average, piecemeal for 4-5
LAD: 1 ace-level in Kershaw, 2 above average, another split with an injury where both halves are above average, 1 split with injuries overall below average
TEX: 3 well above average, 2 average
All four of those teams are closest to the Orioles in record and all four clearly have a better rotation. Bradish or Wells as #1 in Baltimore would be #4 on TEX, #4 on Atlanta, #3 at least on the others. The Orioles likely have the best bullpen of the group overall but the middle relief which they rely on much more heavily because of their starter quality is worse is getting unraveled.
If Grayson Rodriguez has figured it out and is average or better, then I put as zero for chances they trade for SP. But going into the playoffs you take any of the four others I named above over the Orioles on rotation.
I think Tyler Wells and Kyle Bradish are more than “serviceable”. They keep lowering their ERA closer and closer to 3.00 and their whips are 1,13 for Bradish and a .93 for Wells.If you had 5 starters consistently performing that well you could easily win the league.
They need relief pitching. That’s it. Cano has given up a run in almost every outing for the last month. Bullpen help is priority one, followed by a starting pitcher and high average hitter.
I believe this deadline relies heavily on Rodriguez. If he comes out and lights it up, then I see Elias passing in starting pitching, and focusing heavily on the pen, and possibly a bat. If Rodriguez struggles, then I see him making a heavier push for a starter. When Means comes back I figure he’ll be in the bullpen with an innings/pitch count limit.