The Mets are expected to do some selling before the August 1 trade deadline but they have not approached Justin Verlander about any potential trade talks. That’s notable since the veteran has a full no-trade clause and would need to sign off on any deal before it could be completed.
“I would hope that if there was any chance of that, Billy would come and talk to me and that hasn’t happened,” Verlander said to Deesha Thosar of Fox Sports yesterday, referring to general manager Billy Eppler. “I’m focused on being a Met. I want to win here… Obviously it hasn’t gone according to plan just yet, but I didn’t sign a one-year deal.”
The Mets and owner Steve Cohen ran up the biggest payroll in MLB history for this season but that hasn’t translated into the on-field results they were hoping for. They are currently 47-53, a distant fourth place in the National League East and seven games back in the Wild Card race. It was about a month ago that Cohen addressed the club’s lackluster results and said it would be “silly” to make additions. The club was 8.5 games back of the postseason at that time, and though they are slightly closer now, it still seems like they might have their sights set on 2024.
It’s expected that the club might at least look to move some impending free agents such as Tommy Pham, Carlos Carrasco and David Robertson, or players with 2024 options like Mark Canha and Adam Ottavino. Verlander would be a very different situation. Part of the club’s spending spree in the winter was signing him to a two-year, $86.67MM deal, with a $35MM player option for 2025 that’s conditional on him throwing 140 innings next year.
There are various factors in there that would make a trade complicated. One is that Verlander hasn’t quite been as dominant as last year’s Cy Young campaign. He’s allowing 3.24 earned runs per nine innings this year, a solid number in a vacuum but one that’s almost double his 1.75 mark from a year ago. His strikeout rate has dropped from last year’s 27.8% to 20.9% this year, while his walk rate has gone from 4.4% to 8.2%.
Some of that might be explained by the fact that he started the season on the injured list due to a shoulder strain and didn’t debut until May. He has a much stronger 2.44 ERA since the start of June and a 1.69 in July alone. But the overall season in his age-40 campaign may have given some other clubs hesitation regardless, especially considering his massive salary. Then the no-trade clause adds another wrinkle, as Verlander would have to approve any deal that the Mets could line up. It wouldn’t be unprecedented, as Verlander previously approved a trade from the Tigers to the Astros in 2017, but that doesn’t necessarily mean those stars could align again.
The cash part of the deal might not be a total obstacle, at least judging by the way the Mets have behaved under Cohen. In addition to spending heavily in free agency, the club has shown a willingness to eat money in trades in order to tip the scales on the talent side. They flipped infielder Eduardo Escobar to the Angels last month, eating all of his salary in order to get a pair of prospects. They also took Chris Flexen’s deal off the hands of the Mariners in order to acquire Trevor Gott earlier this month, immediately designating Flexen for assignment.
It’s possible the Mets have had some internal discussions about doing a similar thing with Verlander’s deal, though that would clearly be in a different stratosphere. Escobar is making $9.5MM this year and only had about half of that left to be paid out at the time of his trade, while the Mets took on about $8.5MM in the Gott deal when factoring in luxury tax payments. But Verlander will still be owed about $14MM from this year’s deadline to the end of the season, plus another $43.33MM next year and the $35MM player option looming after that.
It’s entirely possible that Cohen is willing to eat that massive sum in order to obtain some prospects, since he keeps surpassing the expectations of what an owner is willing to spend. But there would be complications for the Mets beyond the money, namely the additional hole it would make in next year’s rotation. Though the club may do some selling this year, there’s nothing to indicate they’re embarking on a years-long rebuild, as they are expected to try to compete again in 2024.
As mentioned, Carrasco is an impending free agent and isn’t slated to be back even if he’s not moved at the deadline. José Quintana’s contract runs through 2024 but he’s drawn some trade interest recently. Max Scherzer also has one year left on his deal but has an opt-out opportunity this offseason.
That leaves Kodai Senga, with four more years on his contract after this one, as the most sure thing in the rotation next year. Scherzer isn’t having a typically dominant season with a 4.20 ERA, so it doesn’t seem like he’s trending towards opting out, but a strong finish to the season could always change things. Regardless, trades of Quintana and/or Verlander would further deplete the group. They have some internal options with David Peterson, Tylor Megill and Joey Lucchesi, but they’d obviously be better with a healthy and effective Verlander.
With the deadline now less than a week away and the complicated nature of any theoretical Verlander deal, it seems like the club doesn’t have any plans on shopping him around. That points to him likely returning to Queens in 2024, just after his 41st birthday, and hoping the Mets fare better in his second year as a Met.
This one belongs to the Reds
So, you think they are going to say “Hey Justin, we’re going to trade your a**” before there is something concrete?
stan lee the manly
Probably not like that, but at the same time it would be beneficial for them to gauge where he would be ok with going. Would save a lot of wasted time if they spend days hashing out a trade somewhere only to find out he nixes it with his full no trade clause.
padam
While true, it would waste time, it would also decrease leverage if anything went public based on preference. Better to keep it hush and ask only when they are satisfied with the return.
Tigers3232
He has a full no trade clause. Sof they don’t consult him first and he turns it down could get ugly if and when leaked later. He is a grown man and knows its a business. I highly doubt he’d b butt hurt by them approaching him before hand.
Captain-Judge99
Maybe it’s about time to approach Justin Verlander about a trade? He looked really good against the Yankees last night, but doesn’t everyone lately.
Tigers3232
Although Verlander says they have not approached him, they might have approached his agent or even him and he doesn’t want to give the press anything to run wild on.
I just never trust anything said by teams or players in that regard. I think they re saying what is best to try and keep everything quiet and calm as they should.
BobF1987
Nor should they. He can be a great part of their 2024 and probably 2025 teams that should have a chance. Only sell off players like Pham, Robertson, Carrasco who are free agents after THIS year. Selling Scherzer would be a mistake because his trade value is pretty low right now and he likely won’t opt out with the season he’s having.
Joeb698
Lol, Mets are garbage…always have been, always will be
Flanster
@BobF. They should attempt to extend Robertson
Hurricane Sandy
I actually agree Flanster. On the surface Robertson seems to be the most viable trade chip the Mets have, but that’s exactly because he’s good at what he does. Robertson is a perfect example of someone that as soon as you trade him, you wish you had him back. if the Mets have designs on competing next year, which we know they do, he should definitely be a part of that puzzle.
On the other hand, although I know you’re selling low on Max Scherzer, I really feel like this just isn’t working out with him. He’s clearly not the same guy and to be honest the fans have kind of soured on him as well. I could see teams like the Rangers, Reds, and Orioles giving it a go with him to bolster their chances in the postseason and to provide veteran leadership on a younger team. The Mets might be better off just moving on from him, even if the return isn’t ideal.
mlb fan
@Hurricane..I tend to agree. Robertson’s phenomenal; To the naked eye, his pure “stuff” has declined from his heyday years ago, but his results have not, because that guy simply knows how to pitch. I think Robertson would be a great pitching coach and could teach veteran pitchers how to pitch as their pure stuff declines.
VonPurpleHayes
Lol. Nah. Robertson is old. Mets need to go in the opposite direction. This is a great year for D-Rob but don’t buy that snake oil. Father time is undefeated. Also Robertson isn’t as good as a setup man
VonPurpleHayes
*meant to say might not be as good, not “isn’t as good.” he’s been a setup man for most of his career and has been good, but he’s older now.
VonPurpleHayes
Another year older should help him tremendously.
Hurricane Sandy
I don’t know, man, I know you’re a Phillies fan and so you have experience with him, but my eyes see Robertson a little differently. I saw him come in and put out the fire just last night as a matter fact. I know he’s getting older, but a year after year trustworthy late inning reliever is about as rare a commodity as there is in baseball and there’s nothing more frustrating than watching bullpens blow wins. I can’t tell you how many times you see guys that have a great stuff on the surface of it but can’t get the job done. I also was a believer that Megill could make the conversion to effective late-inning reliever last year and that didn’t work either. There’s no substitute for guys who know how to get it done.
VonPurpleHayes
Robertson was not good for the Phillies twice, but he looks unbelievable this year and has looked good for most of his career. I love the guy. I just think the Mets are super old and they have Diaz. There’s no way to know if Robertson will excel in a setup role either, and he’ll obviously be moved down once Diaz is back. I think the Mets should try to get a return while they can.
Hurricane Sandy
I hear you on the return, but I hate creating holes that you just need to fill again when you’ll just be looking for a player that has the exact same skill set immediately after. The last few years, I’ve always had people suggesting that we need to trade deGrom and get a franchise altering return, but my retort was that once you have the team in place where you’re ready to go for it, you’ll just be looking for that perfect piece to put the cherry on top, and we already had him. There’s no guarantee you’re gonna find that guy later.
VonPurpleHayes
Yeah. You’re not wrong, and the return on Robertson will be pretty low because of his age and 1-year contract. So there’s reason to keep him. I just don’t think the Mets are a bullpen away from being great. They will likely have to spend their way out of this mess, and they have the right owner for that.
geofft
But what value would the Mets gain
by keeping Robertson if they’re not contending? He’s a free agent at the end of the year anyway.
Given that he’s only a rental, his age is a non-issue. He won’t be with the acquiring team next year anyway.
As for the return, lots of contenders will gladly pay a good price for proven, established back of the bullpen help.
Hurricane Sandy
That’s true, but in lieu of his recent comments about how frustrating it is for him and his family to get traded mid-season when he’s comfortable here, I assume he’d like to return. The original comment I was reacting to suggested we could extend Robertson. Obviously I wouldn’t be in favor of more than a one year deal with some incentives / vesting option. I won’t be heartbroken if he’s traded or anything but it doesn’t look like the Mets are waving the white flag this year or next so I’d rather keep the bird in hand.
JackStrawb
If the Mets hope to contend in 2024 they’ll need to add an ace, 3/4 of a bullpen, an All-Star caliber OFer, and pray that one of McNeil and Marte revives.
Payroll for 2024 is already something like $290m even before those additions, and the Mets will be depending a great deal on Verlander, Quintana, and Scherzer as their 3, 4, and 5, which means giving 30 to 40 starts to the failed Peterson, Megill, Lucchesi crew and hoping their $25-30m ace, if they can find one, pitches as they hope.
Meanwhile, if you subtract Senga, Alvarez, and Baty from the Mets’ farm fangraphs listing (and why wouldn’t you?), they plummet from #6 to #23 of all 30 MLB teams. So much for Cohen’s plan to emulate the Dodgers’ system.
Hurricane Sandy
Well, it’s gonna take some time to fill out the farm system, which is why he’s paying all this money for these older veterans. We may not win like the Dodgers while trying to do it, but it’s still worth the endeavor. With the trade of Robertson, there’s no reason not to trade everyone you possibly can right now that’s not a part of the future team.
dugmet
Yeah. He is still a quality starter unlike Mad Max.
nottinghamforest13
His wife’s head is too small or head neck is too long. In either case, it’s not proportionate to her body structure.
stan lee the manly
Imagine getting on the internet and choosing to try to make the point that Kate Upton is not attractive. Absolute insanity.
Captain-Judge99
Yeah basically Kate Upton isn’t cutting it for me, she’s not filling all the boxes.
kma
Such a good boy to keep eyes up here.
getrealgone2
She’s highly overrated.
JackStrawb
There’s something… bovine about her.
rct
I’m sure Kate Upton is devestated that nottinghamforest13 from the MLBTR comments section doesn’t think she is up to snuff.
PoisonedPens
Yeah, a $43 million salary could be a detriment to other teams’ interest.
Captain-Judge99
The Mutts could always pay half, or the whole thing of the $43 million. Chump change for Cohen.
Robrock30
Lol Mets,
Nobody is taking on Verlander’s nor Max’s $ fogetaboutit. Verlander will decline and get paid for 2024 & 2025 and Max has an option for 2024. Besides Verlander and Wife enjoy living in NYC. Stupid $ can’t even eat it so Mets be stuck. Mets are where overpaid vets go to die.
Robrock30
instagram.com/p/CkFa8yyADLX/
Justin Verlander and Gerrit Cole so happy together in the Big Apple
Robrock30
nypost.com/2023/06/18/kate-upton-amy-cole-hang-at-…
Robrock30
Justin Verlander, the Mets’ star free-agent signing, and Yankee ace Gerrit Cole shared a double date with their wives, Kate Upton and Amy Cole, while on a boat touring the Statue of Liberty.
The twosome of Amy and Kate were also pictured together in a suite during last week’s Subway Series at Citi Field.
The couples have seemingly known each other for years, dating back to Verlander and Cole’s mutual time spent as co-aces for the Houston Astros, beginning in 2018.
Robrock30
Lol,
The Verlanders and Coles should plan a family vacation together for October as their calendars will be cleared up then.
10centBeerNight
He has not been the problem.
jvent
I would keep JV and Senga and build around them for next year, there are 4 top free agent pitchers next year in Ohtani, Yamamoto, Aaron Nola and Julio Urias, we should get 2 of them plus bullpen help in Hader, Hicks and Loup. Trade Scherzer, Marte, Canha, Carrasco, Vogelbach lol, maybe even Quintana and McNeil if it’ll bring very good pieces back. There are a couple of teams that need a righty bat (OF), trade them Marte plus $20 mil
Would the Mets and Yanks make a trade ? Quintana or Scherzer and Marte for Clarke-Schmidt/ Loaisiga/ Holmes or Marinnacio ?
rct
“Trade Scherzer, Marte, Canha, Carrasco, Vogelbach lol, maybe even Quintana and McNeil”
Canha is the only one in that group who would bring back anything of value. Maybe McNeil but he’s been so bad this year you’d be selling him at his lowest value. Scherzer is too expensive and has been bad. Marte has been awful and is still owed $40 million over the next two years. Carrasco has been awful. Vogelbach provides little value. Quintana is a major question mark. No one wants any of those guys.
Tigers3232
Canha is a rental who plays average defense. He once in his career hit 20 HRs in juiced ball 2019 and is hitting .235. I don’t see them getting much of value for him. Him and Marte are same age, I’d say most teams looking for OF help would much rather have Marte.
DanzigInTheDark
depends what you’re looking for. Canha has been getting on base better and showing more extra-base pop than Marte this year (98 OPS+ for Canha, 79 for Starling); Marte has been a threat on the basepaths that Canha never will be (24/28 SB).
The big issue it that Canha’s a rental with an affordable option ($11.5M, $2M buyout, so effectively a $9.5M extension if you want to keep him.) Marte has two more years on his deal after this year with $40M+ in salary to go.
Tigers3232
Potential talent Marte is on a different level than Canha. Canha’s career production just doesn’t show the type of production that a puts a contending team over the top or that u want to give up assets for.
Mac Attack
The problem is no hitting no pitching and a lousy manager
jvent
Maybe they can sign Bellinger and Whit Merrifield, Bellinger can rotate between OF, backup 1b and DH some days and Merrifield can rotate between 2b, OF and DH
DanzigInTheDark
No sense in trading Verlander at this point. Not only has he started looking more like his old self over the past two months, but if you move him you’re going to a)have to pay his contract down pretty significantly and b) backfill his rotation spot with someone in free agency this winter, barring an unexpected leap from that Tylor Megill/David Peterson/Joey Lucchesi troika mentioned above.
So which would you rather do: Pay $43M to Justin Verlander next season in the hopes he continues being a solid rotation piece, or pay $20-25M of his contract, plus whatever money you need to spend in free agency to get a guy like Tyler Mahle to fill a rotation hole, and have an extra B-tier prospect?
Robrock30
“Tylor Megill/David Peterson/Joey Lucchesi troika”
What is Jose Butto chopped liver?
geofft
Worse. More like stale cat food at this point.
wileycoyote56
Trade him back to Detroit for Baez. He can retire a Tiger and Detroit can dump Javy, win win for both teams.
Mikeyl
Mets will win the world series this year.will check back after to see
rct
Unless they go like 5-0 or 4-1 before the deadline, I would attempt to trade Pham, Canha, Robertson, and Ottavino. I mean I would obviously try trading Carrasco as well but I can’t imagine anyone would want him. You’re not getting anything good for Scherzer.
Verlander has pitched well enough to think he’ll be fine and perhaps even close to his former self next year. He started the season injured and took a little while to get his complete footing, imo. A few up and down starts where he was either great or awful, but he’s now strung together six starts of dominant pitching. 6 runs in his last 37 innings (1.45 ERA). His walks have been a little out of hand but otherwise he’s been great.
VonPurpleHayes
Imagine if they kept Walker and Bassitt?
Robrock30
VonPurpleHayes,
They also miss Seth Lugo who held it together for them for a long time.
rct
haha, don’t remind me. Swapping out Bassitt for Megill/Peterson would have them firmly in the Wild Card hunt. Walker was too up and down for them, but I don’t understand why they didn’t re-sign Bassitt. It wasn’t a payroll concern because they offered Correa that ridiculous contract after all of their other moves.
VonPurpleHayes
I remember thinking the Phillies should have gotten Jameson Taillon over Walker, but boy was I wrong. Walker has been phenomenal so far. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m absolutely shocked the Mets season went this badly, but I was surprised they didn’t really address the bottom portion of that rotation. Quintana went down in their defense, but I still thought things got iffy after Senga.
rct
I agree that the back end of the rotation should have been addressed more. Walker was more of a first half pitcher (dreadful in the second half his two years with the Mets; for your sake, I hope he holds it together), so I didn’t mind as much that they let him go.
Bassitt was portrayed as an either/or option with Senga in the offseason, and I was glad they chose Senga. But then after they offered Correa $300 million, it didn’t make any sense that they let Bassitt walk. If you’re willing to plunk down that much money for an often-injured infielder for whom you’d have to shuffle everyone around just to find him a position, why not take that money and instead spend it on a consistent workhorse like Bassitt? Makes no sense in retrospect.
Robrock30
VonPurpleHayes,
As you remember I predicted the Mets season would go this badly and you said that my prediction wouldn’t age well. I know my Mets the best having watched them since the mid 60’s and enjoyed the Miracle 69 Championship, the 73 Tug McGraw Ya Gotta Believe Team, then left NYC to return with Darryl Strawberry in 1983 to watch the 86 Championship run.
They are a poorly run organization that has been trying to win and hype the Fans with smoke and mirrors since including Steve Cohen’s overpaying over the hill gang which has crashed. They are now a pig in a poke team and MLB is laughing at them.
VonPurpleHayes
Credit where it’s due, you nailed it.
DanzigInTheDark
The Walker contract was more than I would’ve given to him – although I love the guy as a player. Once the signed Senga to 5/$75M, I couldn’t see them beating 4/$72M for Walker or 3/$63M for Bassitt – those AAVs are $5M and $8M higher than what they wound up giving to Quintana, who secretly had better numbers than both those guys last year (2.91 ERA/2.99 FIP in 165 IP vs. 3.42/3.66 in 180 for Bassitt and 3.49/3.65 in 158 for Walker). The injury is something you can’t factor for when you’re making the deal in November, though – stuff happens.
Robrock30
VonPurpleHayes,
I go back a long time and remember watching the Phillies play the Mets in the 60s. I remember when Dick Allen didn’t show up to play the Mets one Sunday for a DH because he went to a horse racing track instead lol only to run into him with the White Sox in the early 70s where he won MVP playing for Bill Veeck.
Of course I remember Tug McGraw working out for you as well as Lenny Dykstra and Roger McDowell who were traded for Juan Samuel oh my
VonPurpleHayes
Definitely an overpay for Walker, although he’s earning it this year, I don’t know that it’ll be sustained. I don’t think the Mets necessarily needed to outbid the Phillies though if they had shown interest. I hear you on Quintana, but he really benefited from the now-banned shift, and I think the other two are better pitchers overall, but time will tell. I didn’t like the idea of Cookie, Peterson and Megill being guys you needed to rely on. Also, Verlander and Senga are used to pitching on extra days rest, so I thought the Mets should have went with a 6-man rotation.
Flanster
@rct—— I don’t think Bassett wanted to come back
Astros Hot Takes
Frankly, if you could afford a 3 prospects, and the Mets kick in 12 million to offset next year’s salary, getting him might not be a bad idea
carlos15
Flexen would have been better than Gott. And probably better than most for their current bullpen.
dasit
they’re not selling, unless someone offers to seriously overpay for pham or robertson
Robrock30
Pham is injured buyer beware
Snellzilla #7
I was reading an article linking Pham to SF. That’d go over well, Joc and Pham sitting in the same dugout lol
Robrock30
I like Joc
Robrock30
Lol Mets,
The difference between the Wilpons & Steve Cohen is the Wilpons were always looking for cash when unloading at the trading deadline while Steve Cohen actually has to pay some team to cart his players away. You can’t make this stuff up.
Snellzilla #7
They haven’t informed him that he’s changing coasts yet?
10centBeerNight
X factor for NYM big contracts is Cohen willingness to pay significant portion for hope of better return. Man didn’t blink at taking on and discarding Flexen $
JackStrawb
It was the lack of intelligence of paying actual money to acquire Trevor Gott that was so startling.
mookiesboy
It’s just funny how everyone throws around Cohens money Verlander Senga and Quintana are a fine start to next year’s rotation
Bill M
They’re certainly gonna need Verlander next season. Probably Scherzer too. And they’ll still need another FA starter in addition.
JackStrawb
As a #3, 1, and 4, yes.
seaver41
This should purely be focused on flushing guys that suck….so half the roster lol. Verlander stays- he and his wife are here for the NY experience as well as the money. Scherzer is the guy who NEEDS to go.
seaver41
Test
Bill M
icles