Prior to today’s All-Star Game, commissioner Rob Manfred and Players Association executive director Tony Clark each met with reporters. The interviews covered various topics on the state of the game.
Clark indicated the MLBPA would like to discuss potentially relaxing some pace of play rules during the postseason (link via Jesse Rogers of ESPN). Such things as adding time to the pitch clock or increasing the number of mound disengagements for pitchers could be of interest to the union.
“Considering you just played a 162-game season, nobody is looking to play 3½- to 4-hour games,” Clark told reporters. “I don’t think a few seconds here or there is going to create a 3½- to 4-hour game.” Pitchers are permitted 15 seconds to begin their delivery with no one on base and 20 seconds to start throwing with a baserunner aboard. Hitters must be ready by the time the clock hits the eight-second mark. Pitchers are allowed two disengagements from the mound per plate appearance.
The MLBPA doesn’t have the ability to change those provisions. On-field rules changes are at the discretion of a competition committee comprising mostly league officials. Manfred suggested MLB might be open to adjusting the pitch clock for the playoffs but didn’t sound especially enthusiastic about the idea.
“We don’t want a postseason game decided by a rules violation, and I understand it’s a possibility,” the commissioner said (link via Bob Nightengale of USA Today). “In terms of doing something for the postseason, we’re going to continue to talk to the players. I think you ought to play the postseason the way you play the regular season. There’s exceptions. I’m open-minded on that topic. But I prefer to keep the same rules in the regular season and postseason.”
Of course, the league has already signed off on one major change between regular season and postseason play. The extra-inning runner is strictly a regular season provision; there are no free baserunners in the playoffs.
Manfred also addressed a few other big-picture items. Regarding the potential implementation of an automatic strike zone, the commissioner reiterated his preference for the challenge system over a full move to computer ball/strike calls (link via Associated Press). MLB has experimented with both potential avenues in the minor leagues.
The challenge setup primarily relies upon the home plate umpire to call balls and strikes. Pitchers, hitters and catchers are given a finite number of times they can contest a call. Manfred has previously suggested that setup better strikes a balance of preserving the receiving component of catcher defense while decreasing the odds of a very meaningful missed call at important stages of the game. As the AP notes, the challenge system was in place for last weekend’s Futures Game. Four calls were challenged; three were confirmed.
Regardless, it doesn’t seem any changes to the strike zone are coming next season. Nightengale hears from a league official that no automatic zone is likely to be in place before the 2025 campaign at the earliest as MLB continues to refine the tracking technology.
While there’s been plenty of attention on the on-field rule changes in recent years, one could argue the biggest story of the 2023 MLB season has been the A’s efforts to relocate to Las Vegas. Manfred said this afternoon the franchise has begun to provide the league with information regarding its relocation application but has yet to submit a full proposal (link via Alden González of ESPN). That’s the final significant step after the A’s secured $380MM in public funding for a ballpark in Las Vegas last month.
Once the A’s finalize their proposal, it’ll go in front of a three-person relocation committee. As first reported last week by Mick Akers of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Phillies’ owner John Middleton and Royals’ owner John Sherman join Milwaukee’s Mark Attanasio on the committee. The proposal will then go in front of all 30 owners for a vote. The A’s need 75% approval to officially relocate, which they’re expected to receive.
To hear some tell it, there were no pitching injuries before the “pitch clock”.
The love of the radar gun and pitch counts have more to do with pitcher injuries, which have increased over time.
The abuse of players’ arms by overzealous parents pushing them to throw year round has contributed more than anything.
No kids trying to throw a curveball in high school to stack stats for his team is what destroys elbows once they get to MLB bc college/high school coaches only care to win
Throwing a curveball, or any breaking pitch, has not demonstrated any direct correlation. It’s the overuse of the arm which is typically spurred on by the parents.
There was a study a few years back that fastballs (2 seamers and 4 seamers) had the most severe impact
Throwing a curveball does tremendous damage to the joints in the elbow and has been proven for decades. Not exactly sure what “science” you are trying to get at.
Especially when kids are throwing the curveball incorrectly with a slide arm approach you’re moving joints and destroying the muscles between the bones
Common sense 101
What happens if you keep going to chiropractor
From what I’ve read, medical personnel from teams think the WBC is the “culprit” and not the pitch clock at all. Blaming the pitch clock seems to be coming more from the minority of fans who don’t like it.
You need to read better material.
Majority of pitchers didnt play in the wbc. I can list off at least a dozen hurt pitchers that didnt go to the wbc. Nice try.
That was an interesting enough idea that I did a little research.
Of the 174 pitchers currently on the IL, 124 did not play in the WBC. Roughly 70%.
There have been about 30% more pitching injuries than in an average year. But saying that has been caused by the pitch clock would be hard. Correlation does not equal causation.
Pitchers are forced to rush deliveries which messes up their mechanics and causes injury. The pitch clock is stupid, but not as stupid as the ghost runner.
Nah, they are forced to manage the time they take between pitches. But once they start their delivery, they can go at their normal pace.
Source – right, and having to manage that limited time makes them rush their delivery and it messes with their mechanics = injuries.
Two data driven pieces disagree with you.
Greg Fleisig, the research director for the American Sports Medicine Institute, believes the most likely cause of pitcher injuries this season is an increase in velocity. The average velocity of a 4-seamer in 2022 was 93.8 mph. As of mid-June 2023, it’s 94 mph. The average velocity of a breaking ball in 2022 was 82.6 mph. This year it’s increased to 83 mph.
mlb.com/news/pitch-timer-effect-on-mlb-injuries
Fangraphs also has a good article on pitcher injuries and the pace of play.
blogs.fangraphs.com/the-pitch-clock-and-its-effect…
Thanks.. I think we can disregard anything written by mlb.com because they won’t speak out against Manfred’s new rules.
Regarding the fangraphs article, after weeding through the dozens of mind numbing paragraphs describing methodology, it sounds like the conclusion is inconclusive based on a lack of data:
“Now, there are certainly limitations here. That these changes don’t seem to have affected the group as a whole does not mean that individual pitchers haven’t been impacted. Routines and bodies vary. None of this changes the frustration that some pitchers have expressed over the new rules (though many seem to have adapted fine). It also doesn’t mean that there isn’t a real effect that our data is simply too limited to capture at this point. There will certainly be other ways to look at these data once we have a longer period of time to examine. We should continue to examine the potential effects of the pitch clock on pitcher health and performance, and be open to adjustments as necessary; improvements to pace that come at the expense of pitcher’s arms don’t serve fans or players. Still, when it comes to the pitch clock as the potential cause of injuries or underperformance, the early data suggests a rather muted effect.”
@ prov356, I’m sorry but the historical evidence does not support your conjecture. The average game length is 2 hours 40 minutes in 2023 according to one website. Up until 1985, MLB games averaged less than 2 hrs 40 minutes. If your conjecture that pitchers are more likely to be injured because they are “rushed” today was correct then we should see similar injury rates among pitchers prior to 1986. We don’t. Also, injury rates should even be higher the further back you go in history as average game length was shorter. Given that games lasted less than two hours in the 1930s, 40% less than today, injury rates should have been significantly higher than today.
If I were to theorize on why pitchers are getting injured more, I would probably start by looking at changes in how pitchers pitch and changes in the bodies of pitchers over time.
skeptical – While those stats might be correct (I’ll take your word for it), there was no pitch clock back then. So, the shorter length of games was the result of something other than rushing pitchers to make their deliveries with a pitch clock. If there was the same pitch clock prior to 1985 with fewer injuries, then that would be a fair analysis and you can deduce that there is no correlation made between today’s pitch clock and the number of injuries we see today.
There have been 301 trips to the IL by pitchers this season. We are on pace to see 572 this season.
In 1983 there were a total of 564 trips to what they called the DL by pitchers for the entire season. Pretty similar numbers.
In 2015 there were 240 for the entire season. In 2019 there were 313 for the entire season.
In 2022 there were 427 for the entire season.
prov356;
I’d suggest you go to You Tube and watch replays of games from the late-50’s through the late 70’s. They were a lot faster, and easy to watch.
Pitchers didn’t dilly-dally around the mound, batters didn’t step out every pitch and adjust their batting gloves (in fact, they had no batting gloves).
If a pitcher lost 2-3 mph on his fastball for a half-dozen games, no one threw a fit and said he was washed up. And if he gained 2-3 mph on his fastball no one said he should be signed to a large contract.
Samuel – Thanks, but I don’t have enough time to watch live games today so definitely won’t watch replays of games from 70 years ago!
I understand, however, the differences across the eras of the game. My argument is, though, that while pitchers may have gotten to their windup and delivery more quickly back 70 years ago, it was their prerogative to do so. They weren’t forced to pitch more quickly under threat of a time penalty that could result in a walk of the batter and possibly effect the outcome of the at-bat or the game itself in some cases.
Woman’s volleyball has moved past baseball now. It’s football, basketball, soccer, women’s volleyball THEN baseball, thanks Manfred!
@Judge I don’t think you seen to understand why most people watch women’s sports…
In terms of what?
Manfred is CLUELESS
ManFred has to be the worst comish MLB has seen in a long time.
Yeah it’s a wonder the owners keep employing him. Obviously he isn’t doing the job for them at all.
Oh, wait.
I wonder if Atlanta’s owner would agree?
Only one of his 30 bosses, and even assuming you are right, he only has to be able to count to 16. I bet he can count much higher.
Hating the commissioner for doing ownership’s dirty work is like hating a manager for playing the front office’s roster and game plan. Lots of people do, but I believe they are seriously not getting it. Ownership and front offices have to love not being held accountable, but I don’t understand why any fan would volunteer to play along in that game.
Their revenue has nearly doubled in the last decade and the value of the team has jumped 40%. I think they are pretty happy.
Bóooooooooo
Tell Manfraud mlb hasn’t added any young fans because of pitch clock.
Not to mention the difficulty to actually see the product. The all-star game and the playoffs are hidden behind cable TV walls.
I hear your point about blackouts and speaking the games across multiple cable and streaming services.
But the All Star game is over the air on Fox.
Ah, yes. Silly me. The game is broadcast over the air. Let me go to my great grandparents house and grab a set of rabbit ears so I can watch the game over the air.
not – Absolutely correct! Same goes with the Friday “Apple TV” and Sunday morning “Peacock” games.
It’s like a band trying to increase their revenue by playing a private event at top dollar, instead of a large outdoor venue for less money. Which one would create more revenue-generating fans? The answer is simple.
I think most older fans here will agree, we fell in love with baseball because it was something we got exposed to on free network TV back in the day.
FPG – Exactly. MLB continues to increase blackout restriction areas. Cincinnati games are blacked out here in Nashville for example. So are Braves games, which is more understandable. But Cincinnati?
The owners are always going to take the broadcasting deal that makes them the most money. They always have. The networks aren’t willing to outbid Apple TV because they don’t think they can get a return on the $$.
This has been happening on a team level for years. The reason the Cubs longterm deal with WGN ultimately ended is because WGN was paying the Cubs $250,000 per game, and they lost $200,000 per game in the last year of the deal.
What’s going to be really interesting is, what happens when MLB’s deal with ESPN is up? ESPN is cutting costs like crazy because they’re not making as much money because of the decline in cable/satellite subscribers. They’re not going to bid as much as MLB wants next time around.
Correct, and the MLB scheduling is terrible. There should be 1 if not 2 day games everyday, same with 4 pm starts. People would see a lot more baseball than they do under the current circumstances.
Snuff – Too many people work for weekday games to make sense.
Kids would miss the first part of the games when they are in school.
And it would get way too hot during the summer in open air stadiums.
TV revenue would go down also. I couldn’t watch a 4 o’clock game until I’m home at 5:30 if I’m lucky. The US is still a 9-5 world.
I rolled the bones with the planets in full alignment and the spirits told me mlb added exactly 13,287 new fans.
They’ve added fans somehow. Attendance is up everywhere (well, not Oakland). And by a LOT.
Lol, not at Fenway. With the money not being spent properly by mgmt, fans are pissed.
bob – Very true! Every game you can see all the empty seats at Fenway, and the team is practically giving away tickets with bargain basement promotions.
That could change somewhat if the team performs better, but the demand will still remain low.
That’s because Boston’s fanbase is as bad as they come
In what way?
Its down a whopping 200 people per game at Fenway this season. Perhaps if they got out of last place they would sell more tickets.
seam – Attendance is actually identical to the last “normal” season (non-Covid or lockout) of 2019.
Remember, the regular season didn’t begin last year until April 7th. There were no late March or first week of April games played that typically draw the worst attendance of the season.
In 2019 average attendance was 28,204
In 2018 it was 28,660
This year it’s 28,236
I really think ticket revenue is a more accurate representation than attendance. Many teams, including my Red Sox, have been practically giving away tickets with promotions just to get people into the park. They are even selling “bargain packs” in Boston-area Costco stores.
In the 18-24 demographic Nielsen is reporting a 1.3% increase in MLB viewership on legacy platforms, meaning OTA broadcast, cable and satellite TV. On streaming and apps its 3.3%. Whatever MLB is doing, its working.
I would only tweak one rule on the clock. Every team gets 1 warning a game similar to the NBA delay of game. That way you are not as likely to see a game end because the batter was 2 seconds late getting in the batters box. Still could happen but less likely. Other than that I like the new rules
MLB needs to tell Tony Clark and the MLBPA to pound sand.
What he, and pitchers, more than likely really want is a way to reduce the increased impact of the SB. The idea players need a “breather” after playing with these rules for 162 games is nonsense. As the reduced number of violations shows, they’ve adjusted to them as the season has progressed.
The pitch clock and batter timing rules haven’t cut anything actually meaningful from the game, and the limited number of stepoffs (along with the bigger bases) has brought more action.
The MLBPA is the enemy of the fans. They oppose everything the fans seem to want by voting against popular changes. I don’t hear as much complaining about the annoying and more controversial stuff, like the Manfred man. Of course, I will never forgive MLB for the blackout rules and annoying idea that you need 25 different apps to watch 162 games, playoff games, and the HR Derby + the All Star Game. I think you even need a separate subscription for spring games, but I’m not too sure. Still, I think the players are demanding higher wages at an average of about 9.4 percent a year from when Nolan Ryan signed as a free agent, which is forcing teams to resort to cheap things like this to maintain their profit margins. I think the game would be better if they broke up the union. Imagine all of us getting 9.4 percent raises at work each year.
Why 15-20 smaller market owners signed off on a CBA that continued to screw them over, I will never know.
They signed off because revenue sharing and salary slashing land teams like the Pirates and A’s in the top 5 for most profitable franchises in the league, and for some reason the MLPA fought to have teams guilty of embezzling funds to get back into revenue sharing.
The union is one of the more embarrassing ones out there but busting up a union and relying on ownership to improve the situation is laughably naive.
It was the “least bad” option to get the game going and revenue started again.
IMO, baseball’s never ending core problem is that, unlike the NFL, every owner operates like their franchise could exist without the others. It’s not like there’s a group of small market owners who agree on things and then there’s a group of big market owners who agree on things. Even the small market owners don’t want to share a $1 with another small market team that’s got some of the same challenges they do. All each owner cares about is how a CBA (or a work stoppage) is going to impact his finances. If enough of them see a longer work stoppage impacting their individual finances, they’ll agree to whatever “least bad” option is on the table.
The blackout rules have been around since TV started broadcasting games. At the time, they made sense.
The reason MLB.tv has blackouts is because the individual teams control their own in-market broadcasting rights, MLB doesn’t. Because big market teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, and after the All Star break the Cubs, have their own in-market direct to consumer streaming subscription, MLB’s plan to get everybody’s in-market streaming rights and end blackouts is DOA. An executive from a big market team told ESPN they will “never” give up their streaming rights. Revenue from those subscriptions isn’t part of MLB’s revenue sharing agreement. Most owners *hate* revenue sharing in the first place, and they’re never going to agree to give up any part of their streaming revenue.
As for different apps, it’s not that bad. RSNs are all but dead because cable/satellite are all but dead. That has nothing to do with baseball and there’s nothing MLB can do about it.
Sure, blame the MLBPA, not the vast profit margins of ownership. Bust up the union – how dare the workers have any sort of protection against abuse! Laughably dumb
“MLB needs to tell Tony Clark and the MLBPA to pound sand”.
Agreed.
It’s just like the MLBPA to suggest a new set of rules for the post-season, after playing with a set of rules all season. All a ploy to get “a few seconds here or there” changed. Once that’s done in the post-season they’ll want it done in the 2024 season…..and on and on. American politicians do that sort of thing constantly.
Here’s a suggestion for the players union:
Starting in 2024 cut the number of regular season games back by 10-15%. Sounds reasonable. The players will get more days off. The fans won’t miss 16-24 games. Then cut players salaries back the same 10-15% – which is only fair.
Let’s see how the players union responds to that.
Wow. What has happened to you? You used to be logical. Now blaming the players is your plan? Just days after acting like the O’s aren’t contending? Did you fall & hit your head?
KingOmar;
LOL
Am totally logical. Here’s the real issue – also a problem with the NFL, NBA, and NHL….
A league can’t keep expanding their playoffs (and in the NFL’s case – the regular season games as well) and play each game more intensely without burning out the players – which includes more injuries during the season. The leagues owners are blamed for the expansion for bringing in more revenue. But that constant increase in revenue is what brings in higher and higher player salaries each year – far greater than inflation. We reached the tipping point years ago where something had to give, and that’s seen in the injuries in all pro sports. It’s always the players – via their union – that complain…..after voting to expand the number of games played.
The logical thing to do is to cut the number of regular season games in all sports. But that will cut the revenue stream, which in turn will cut the salaries…..and the players – and owners – will never go for that.
The truth is that everyone is greedy, and what’s suffered for decades is the level of play.
–
As for the O’s – I stopped watching them because they were playing so sloppily with primarily awful pitching. Then they went on a winning streak. It happens. As I wrote – most teams today only have 2 and maybe 3 starting pitchers they can depend on to keep their team in the game for 5 or so innings; along with 2 or 3 back-end relief pitchers. Since the level of level of play has dropped so low (see above) teams that seem to have weakness on paper are in fact no less competitive than most of the other teams. Example – the AL Central in 2023 is the worst division in years. Even though, explain how the Guardians can be in 1st place. One would think at least one of 5 teams would be decent.
I was really looking forward to umpires filing for unemployment after at least 25 percent get fired, and perhaps even more if AI can make other types of calls. I guess we will have to wait, but I love the idea of slowing down playoff games, as people probably don’t care nearly as much during key games as they do during each of the 162 almost daily games. Another thing I was thinking was that making it 15 seconds in between pitches in an at bat instead of 20 and cutting the other times in between by 5 seconds as well would reduce 5 seconds in between the 300 or so pitches per game. That is 25 minutes fewer per game. Ideally, as someone who pitched in recreational baseball, pitchers wouldn’t be rushed to throw every 10 seconds, but that would cut it another 25 minutes. Just going from 25 to 20 at most (generally 13-18 I guess) shaves quite a bit of time. I do like the logic of cutting down the dead time. They should just track violations and then move around money from those who violate it the most to those who violate it the least. I think that serves fans well.
The challenge system seems extremely clunky and does very little to improve accuracy overall. The unions will get in the way of progress for as long as they can.
LOL so let’s screw up the hitters’ timing in the most meaningful games of the year. Great plan. Clueless as usual.
Get rid of the pitch clock.
Get rid of Manfred.
who the hell still opposes the pitch clock? it’s literally the best thing baseball has done in years
Vendors oppose it especially beer vendors.
Vendors don’t oppose it at all – attendance is up almost 10% across baseball. More bodies = more sales
it’s literally the best thing baseball has done in years
======================
I always wanted a clock. Even as a RS fan, guys like Pedroia & Buchholz annoyed the crap out of me, making the game painfully slow.
But the clock is 10x better than I thought it imaginable. It’s hard to believe that anyone opposes it.
Joe – I like the clock as well, as long as we don’t see critical games – especially postseason games – decided by clock violations.
I was at the Atlanta/Boston ST game that ended 6-6 when Conley was called for a batter time violation with the bases loaded. We do NOT want to see something like that in the postseason.
It’s one of the few things Manfred has done right. Games now are about the same length of time as games in the mid to late 80s, and games prior to that were even faster. The games kept ballooning in time with a peak of around 3:10 just prior to the implementation of the pitch clock.
Just wait until the clock decides a playoff game, then you’ll see who the hell opposes it.
The clock won’t be deciding the game. The player who breaks the rule will be deciding the game.
@BlueSkies_LA then have your players not break the rules? The old rule was 12 seconds TO RELEASE THE BALL So it was never intended to go anywhere near as slow as it got. They just totally abandoned the rule. The rule of 15 seconds to just start your windup is actually about 5 seconds longer, with the tradeoff of it being rightfully enforced. If a pitcher stands there staying at the catcher too long and it walks home the bases loaded run… so be it. Stop taking so long to throw
Joe – The clock is often overruled by the umpires, it’s a discretionary thing. That’s where the controversy could come in, not the player’s fault.
Thanks for getting the point Fever Pitch. Clock violations are just another umpire’s call, and violations can be about as clear as balk or checked swing calls.
Blue – Absolutely! So many different scenarios could occur, as simple as an eyelash or something getting in the player’s eye.
Any time there is a human element involved, there’s the possibility of controversy.
Every umpire’s call is an opportunity for controversy. Some seem to believe that the human element can be removed from baseball. It can’t be, and that isn’t a game I’d like to watch anyway. I’m just waiting for the backlash the first time the outcome of an important game is impacted by a clock violation call. For sure many won’t see it as the fault of the rule.
This is an absurd line of thought. An eyelash is what you’re hanging your “no pitch clock!!!” hat on??
So your problem is the implementation of the rule?
Well Joe I don’t know if you are asking me that question, but if so my point had nothing to do with a personal problem with the rule or its implementation. It’s about how some fans are bound to react when the rule decides a game, especially an important one.
Joe – All I’m saying is they shouldn’t be too rigid in big moments.
You follow the NHL? Penalties are almost never called in overtime as refs usually look the other way.
Phantom – You want your team to lose a big game because of an eyelash? It’s just one of many scenarios where calling a violation would be absurd.
Get rid of all the rules and let the players play.
Are you still okay with foul lines?
And strike zones. Let pitchers bean batters. SPIKES UP!!
I wonder how he got the job…
Are we talking about Clark or Manfred? The answer for Clark seems more obvious than the answer for Manfred.
I was talking (rhetorically) about Manfred. And Adam Silver.
Manfred has done a great job.
Huh?
His friends voted him in. It’s not that hard.
That’s right..Now I remember..His “friends.” 😉
I don’t mind the pitch clock or the shift ban but please for the love of god get rid of the 3 batter rule and the runner at 2B in extra innings
Especially the latter, unnecessary now with the pitch clock.
That’s a great point. The runner in extra innings was put in place to prevent games from lasting too long. Since they’ve shaved so much time off, that’s no longer a concern.
Agree absolutely with getting rid of the 3-batter rule. To me that’s the worse rule in recent history. I don’t like the ghost runner, but at least both teams are equal in the application. The 3-batter rule can hurt one team if a pitcher comes in that can’t find the strike zone. Sure both teams have the same rule, but forcing a team to stick with a guy that can’t throw strikes seems wrong, since that happens haphazardly. After all, the league limits the number of pitchers allowed on the roster.
Nobody wants to see pitching changes after 1 or 2 batters.
I do. I love the chess game it allows. Strategy is enhanced.
What I really hate is some guy that has no control or command being forced to pitch to 3 batters. Even when its the team opposing the Angels its no fun to watch.
“Nobody wants to see pitching changes after 1 or 2 batters.”
You will when your team is in a tight game, and the guy your manager brings in can’t find the strike zone issuing 2 or 3 free passes. And if he does, it gets hit out, losing a game they might not have before the rule.
That will happen to every team eventually. It usually hurts only one team, not both equally.
I agree that seeing a bunch of pitching changes isn’t fun. But this attempt to speed up the game was made before the pitch clock was instituted. It would be a lot more fair if teams could make one pitching change without the 3 batter minimum to avoid penalizing a team excessively just for having one guy that comes in with nothing.
I agree about the runner, but the 3-batter rule was long overdue. Nothing more boring than seeing Bruce Bochy make 3 pitching changes in the middle of an inning.
The ghost runner in extra innings is deplorable. If you wanna save time that badly, award a TIE after 11 innings. Let them fight it out hard for 2 innings at least!
Glad to see that Samuel is still roaming these halls..Reminds me of “Peeves The Poltergeist” from Harry Potter!
He is? Haven’t seen him in forever. Oh wait, that is because I muted him and his nonsensical novels.
Love the free runner rule. Nothing worse than an endless game. The players are on record as hating those 15 inning death marches and not caring who wins. It’s obvious just by watching. Even ties would be better.
Glad you agree that a “tie” would be an honorable and swift ending. Not sure why the idea hasn’t gained more traction..
Because ties are an abomination to the sports world. If a game can end in a tie, why keep score in the first place.
Let’s not get carried away…Never heard anyone say that about a tie. You would offend a lot of Futbol fans with that kind of talk. Plenty of instances in which a tie is more than honorable.
My real thoughts on “futbal” and the fans of would get me banned from MLBTR. Let’s leave it at I’d rather watch paint dry than soccer.
Ok that actually gave me a good laugh…
Honorable? Maybe. Fun to watch? NOPE.
What’s interesting (to me anyway) is sports that used to have ties, football, hockey, etc. have moved away from them. Though NFL football unlike college, can still have a tie, though rare.
I don’t mind a tie that much, but they work better in a system that awards points, not just W/L. Soccer awards 3 points for a win and 1 for a tie. The NHL awards 2 for a win, but doesn’t have ties any more. But they do award 1 point for an overtime loss. It seems to me that ties have less impact in a strictly W/L system, than they do in a points ranking system.
MORE baseball. Gotta hate that, right? WTF?
Two games I wish I had been seen. Harvey Haddix’s twelve perfect innings in 1959 and the Warren Spahn-Juan Marichal 16 inning game in 1963, where both pitchers went the distance and Michael won 1-0. The free runner in extra innings would have spoiled both games.
Haddix loses his perfect game in the 13th when the third basemen Don Hoak committed an error and then lost the game on a bizarre play.
Nay, I’ll pass on the free runner.
Weird idea. Keep the pitch clock for the first seven innings, add 5 seconds starting in the 8th.
Keep the game moving, then at crunch time, slow it down and let the drama of the game carry the action.
I can dig it. I also like having a both managers-approved “shut off the clock” option after the 6th in the Postseason, or something like that.
That’s a great idea with probably no chance of implementation.
Manfried is such a joke.
steven st croix;
The rule changes were 1) Wanted by the fans for years; and 2) Created unpresented fan interest in MLB in 2023.
Samuel – neither of those statements are measurable. And if your source is Manfred, well…
If fans liked the rules so much, then MLB wouldn’t spend money hiring actors like Bryan Cranston to tell us how good the new rules are.
prov356;
LOL
Those statements are and were totally measurable.
MLB hired professional marketing agencies to measure consumers likes and dislikes about their product for years before they made those changes. You think a multi-billion dollar industry has someone sit in a corner office and dictate changes like this? You think owners and the employee unions would agree to those changes unless it resulted in their all making more money?
And you elect to ignore higher attendance and game viewing on media devices….let alone increased interest in viewing game highlights and statistics – which is how most fans today follow every professional team sport…and due to a 162 game season this is true more of MLB than any of the other sports leagues.
Boo.
We need an explosive in the ball, and on a timer. Nobody on the field is allowed to know when it is set to go off.
Punishing players for fielding balls in play or punishing fans for catching/being near foul balls?
Cyberball ruled
Anyone gonna hit .400+ this year?
Let’s put Enrico Pallazzo behind the plate, too.
Not a fan of any of the roles with the exception of the shift. Four hour game, so be it.
I wonder if they did remove the clock what the pace of play would be?
It would be interesting to do a study and see how it impacts the timing. Might be something they could test in the minors.
The page of play would be like it was last year. Much slower. Batters would be stepping out. pitcher’s would be stepping off
A’s have not been able to obtain financing to build the stadium. So they cannot finalize the state and local funding in Nevada and cannot submit an application to move the A’s because they have no where to go yet.
Fisher is on the hook for $1.1 billion plus part of the infrastructure costs. His net worth is $2.2 billion but $1.8 billion of that is the A’s and Earthquake’s. He doesn’t have assets he can liquidate to pay for the stadium so he has to borrow money.
Doing that is going to be difficult. He doesn’t have a good record with his ability to manage assets. His leadership at GAP turned his stock holdings from a $1.5 billion war chest into $349 million in 2 years.
He won’t own the stadium he will pay to build, so he has to justify the financing with the profitability of the A’s.
In Oakland he cried poor and said playing there wasn’t financially viable. Now he is proposing moving to a market 1/3rd the size of the Bay Area, a TV market so small that the team may not able to gey any local TV deal, playing in a 50% smaller venue, and not being able to business in any way with the largest industry in the state, casinos.
That is a hard sell. I wish him luck.
Don’t worry, the Royals ownership is on the panel. I’m assuming they’re experts on running things into the ground while relying on revenue sharing to make a profit.
F****** both Fisher and Slob Manfred for colluding against the city of Oakland and its fans!
That being said, though Fisher isn’t financially capable of funding relocation, baseball is hell bent on screwing over Oakland, so MLB will bend the rules so that he gets away with it. I think you might have suggested this previously, but Fisher’s real goal is to sell the team. Once ground breaks on the stadium, he’s ghost…
I was with you until you wished him luck.
Do you really want to see him fail for the sake of baseball’s well-being? If he does, A’s remain in status quo as an AAAA team.
Leave the game alone. just because we have technology doesn’t mean it belongs in a baseball game. sometimes some of the games do go long but look at it this way: would’ve you rather spend $200 on one ticket and see the game for an hour and a half or would you rather pay $200 for a ticket to watch a 4 hour game. longer games mean more bang for your buck. go back to the way it was in the 1980’s before all this unnecessary technology destroyed the game.
Games in the 80s didn’t last four hours unless they were well into extra innings. And cutting out the dead time increased bang for your buck.
Back in the mid-2000’s I was attending 20+ games a year at Shea for $5-$15 a ticket and spending money on beer, food, merchandise, etc.. Compare that to my first game at Citi Field this year where I spent $200 before first pitch (I got there early for a bobblehead giveaway), and that didn’t even include parking, and I’m like welp… that’s it for this year.
When the new ballparks were being built, Baseball teams started prioritizing squeezing more money out of people (that is, the real baseball fan) to attend less games at smaller parks while assuming more rich people and casual yuppies will go see often-crappy teams in luxury suites for big bucks.
I would argue the game was healthier when it was more of a ritual to take yourself and your family/friends to a game, but there’s really no going back now. Baseball and us fans are stuck with this model. The whole world really is being forced into a business model, sucking the enjoyment out of life for us average folk. The masses have accepted the cold-hearted business model as the only barometer of how decisions are made, and we’re stuck.
As an amusing aside to this soapbox rant… I remember me and a friend (both HUGE Mets fans – the kind that give life to these franchises) were given tickets behind home plate from a season ticket holder. Obviously we were stoked because they were the best seats we ever had. We would stand up when the opposing batter had 2 strikes as is customary, hoping for the strikeout, and these 2 guys in suits were like “excuse me, can you please sit down”. It was amusing but encapsulates how I feel about modern baseball.
“… would’ve (sic) you rather spend $200 on one ticket and see the game for an hour and a half or would you rather pay $200 for a ticket to watch a 4 hour game.”
The way you’ve hypothetically posed that question suggests a comparison of the same game played in parallel universes. Otherwise how can you compare a short game packed with action to a long game that’s a boring blow-out, over after the first few innings?
So, comparing apples to apples, with as much action in the shorter game as in the long one, why would you prefer the action stretched out over a longer time frame?
Rob Manfred has the owners jerking themselves off over their excitement to relocation and expansion. More money they make that they tell the public they don’t have to spend on players…who are the ones that make the league its revenue.
“More money they make that they tell the public they don’t have to spend on players”.
LOL
The players union gets after additional revenues faster then politicians can pass tax increases.
lollar2112, This isn’t Manfred. Not defending him in the slightest, but relocation/expansion has been part of the owner’s playbook long before Manfred.
Look at the teams that have relocated in the past. The A’s started in Philly. Vegas will be their 4th new home. The St. Louis Browns, which started in Milwaukee, are now the Baltimore Orioles.
There were half as many teams in 1901. There were only 18 teams in 1961. Between 1950 and 2000, 10 teams relocated to different cities
Owners run MLB not Manfred. And owners have never prevented another owner from relocating his team.
MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER COMMISSIONER needs to address limiting the number of HBP that batters are subjected to. Every time a batter is hit by a pitched ball there is the possibility of a lost time injury. Further the current system imposes ZERO penalty on the pitcher who throws a pitch that hits a batter that results in a lost time injury. In addition, the team that the pitcher plays for receives no penalty while the opposing team loses the services of a member of their 26 man roster.
What to do ??
Come up with a substance or treatment to the ball or to the pitcher’s hands to afford him better control of pitched balls.
Reconfigure the Batter’s Box.
Reposition the Batter’s Box.
Prevent the players from obliterating the lines of the Batter’s Box.
Prevent any part of the batter’s body from occupying space outside of the Batter’s Box.
DO SOMETHING!!
Dude – Every few weeks you post the same crap about HPB. By your “logic”, any batter who hits a pitcher with a come-backer should also be penalized. It’s just silly.
Pitch clock is so nice. Everyone has their opinion, but I think it’s fine the way it is. I feel like the timers will only make the playoffs more exciting.
One great rule change a few years ago was limiting mound visits. Every Yankees vs. Red Sox game would last 4+ hours with Posada and Varitek going out to the mound 5 times every inning.
Agreed but Posada had nothing on Sanchez for mound visits.
This is purely money-driven. Make postseason games longer bc stadium fans who are spending more and TV audiences are paying attention and MLB can sell more ads.
Manfred has destroyed the game. He is the worst commissioner since William Eckert. Mr. Rob Manfred hasn’t won too many gold stars with me. His contributions to the game, has given it a black eye. Just like NASCAR when they changed too much, fans ignored the sport. It’s happening with baseball and the fan support is dwelling.
PiratesFan1981;
Fan support – both in attendance and viewing on media devices is at an all-time high, and has taken a giant leap in 2023.
As a fan that watches a lot of games, short of the silly ghost runner rule, I have no problem with Manfred’s rule changes. As for proposed expansion -with the dilution of talent in MLB I think at least 4 teams should be dissolved and a draft of their players held for the remaining 26 teams.
@samuel you can tell your a NY fan. Always the same line, “eliminate 4 teams”. Let me guess the four teams and let me know if I am correct! Tampa, Oakland, Pittsburgh and Kansas City? Typical New York fan response.
Only reason why the owners are happy is because they can gain billions and the players get crumbs. As long as Manfred doesn’t mess with their wallets, they are happy and won’t vote him out. So, he’s just a scrape goat for the owners and their benefits. Tony Clark is getting paid to screw the players because he is just as bad as Manfred. Both are scrape goats and only benefit the owners.
Next year will be the robo umpire and some other ridiculous new rule like the catchers have to be 5 feet back from home plate. This game is losing its traditional value and becoming a watered down technical programming. Pretty soon I am going to watch some old men in ugly kakis chasing a little white ball down the Green.
PiratesFan1981;
LOL
I can’t stand NYC fans or their teams. The fans know nothing about how to play baseball or construct teams other to spend money on players and complain about 3-4 of the worst players on their roster when the team doesn’t win a championship.
The players “get crumbs”. Are you nuts? Guys are getting hundred million dollar contracts. Average players are getting $15-20M a year…and how much did they invest in MLB and how much do they negotiate with municipalities, politicians, media that broadcasters their games, etc, And how about providing the best coaches/instructors to help those players get better…..and providing those people with costly analytics, video, etc, to help[ them in their coaching.
You must be a real loser. Take your demagoguery elsewhere. You’re one of the types of fans that ballplayers in the locker room laugh at….and the media keeps silent about it because they want to protect their jobs.
Yeah, kid – take up a collection for the poor, destitute payers.
Furthermore, I live not far from Pittsburgh.
@samuel oh, so your a wannabe tough guy and want to talk smack. You seriously don’t see past your own observations. You realise majority of the minor leagues are on a cheap base salary and not a single one gets any benefits. While owners are buying Yachets and 3 condos, minor league 4-5 players are living together in a 3 bedroom apartment and carpool on a beat up 2005 Ford Taurus. Yeah, players are living the life. Only the top talents are seeing 15-20 million a year. And that is like 10% of the league. You just need to keep drinking that kool aid
@sam
You are kidding right? Removing 4 teams? Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and the Reds.. because its the Reds.. heck just move the Yankees to London, Red Sox to Rome, Dodgers to Mexico City and the Reds to Moscow because.. its the Reds lol. Sounds like a better plan to me.
Fan support from my anecdotal evidence is more that people missed baseball rather than rule changes. When the ball fields are closed people can’t go.. ball fields open and people flood the gates because they can.
People watching on media devices is up is naturally increasing because the tech is now available and people are dropping television providers. Nothing to do with rule changes.
Samuel, I think there should 26.2 teams. After all, the season is a marathon.
I don’t like the ban on shifts because it only encourages poor hitters to remain in the game, despite them not being capable to make adjustments. If you can’t adjust, you don’t belong in the MLB.
Amen, Old York. I take that sentiment farther and say make pitchers in both leagues bat. Ditch the DH.
Where is Curly these days anyway?? Yankee Clip still around? I know YBC is still here…
Rob Manfred can choke, that semi-animated corpse certifiably hates baseball and absolutely loathes baseball fans
Have any of the changes made baseball look more like baseball or is it just a faster pace of mindless TTO?
Robo Strike Zone is so over due. But now they want to make a watered down version of it w/ “challenges” rather than allowing the Robo Zone to be used 100% of the time.
For a league that wants to shead unnecessary time sucks, allowing to teams to determine when/if they will challenge a call is backwards.
Either call games perfectly w/ the Robo Umps, or don’t. But allowing perfect to be disrupted by imperfect is just ridiculous.
Baseball has always sought to have a uniform Strike Zone, and technology will allow for that. So they want to make perfect imperfect?
Human error CAN be eliminated…but MLB likes error and inconsistentcy??
A challenge system for ball and strike calls would be the absolute worst implementation of that, not what Manfred says is a good balance of anything. All a challenge system does is ensure the ONLY pitches that get corrected are the ones that decide an AB between a strike out or some other outcome. But how many ABs in key situations hinge on a close 0-1 or 1-0 pitch being called incorrectly? In a big situation (runners on the corners in a 1-run game say) there’s a world of difference for a batter between being 0-2, 1-1 or 2-0 in the count. But with limited challenges no one is going to use one in that situation.
Get all the calls right or don’t bother.
Exactly!!!
The pitch clock still rules, don’t mess with it. If these guys can’t figure it out in time for the playoffs and it actually impacts a game, that’s on the player not the rules.
One thing i agree on is that you don’t change the rules for on the field in the post season but i do not like the rules in general.
That said, I don’t like the pitch timer as it stands. Adding a few seconds like Clark said might make the difference for enjoyment. I must stay though, it isn’t as bad as i expected.
I don’t like the throw over or disengagement rules. Telling umpires to crack down on players who step off or out of the box for no good reason should be enough. Throw over limit artificially inflates stolen bases. In critical situations with a runner on first they are basically letting a fast runner get into scoring position. Putting a runner on in extra innings similar boat
I don’t like the current challenge rules as it has gotten far away from what it was intended for. It was for those pretty obvious plays not ‘bang bang’ where a runner hits the bag basically the same time as the catch. I don’t think there is a simple way to set it to that though,were/how to draw a line.
computer strike zone is horrible. watched it in the MiLB a few times this year absolutely hate it. It isn’t like pitches that hit the ground 2 feet in front of the plate are being called strikes. Most ‘bad’ calls are an inch here or there. as long as the ump is reasonably consistent deal with it, its been that way for over a hundred years.
Umpires are just as much of the game as players since the start of professional baseball. They might as well be mascots.
They shouldn’t change the number of seconds, they should slow the clock down to 75% speed, then play the postseason games that way.
Then they can go to 200% speed for the commercials.
Yes please, thank you.
I like the pitch clock, helps to mske it more watchable for me, and does remind me more of the pace of 1970s and 80s when i was young.
But id be fine with the additional 5 secs, even in the regular season.
I very strongly dislike this man.
That must be exhausting.
What if a friend gave you a lottery ticket. What if that ticket turned out to be a winner? And over time your friend’s finances declined while yours improved. Then several years down the road that friend asked for you to give him those lottery winnings?
Asking the Giants to walk away from a huge revenue source, the value of which was not known at the time the territory was awarded, isn’t a fair request. It’s like someone asking for the return of a gift, only after finding out later on that the true value of that gift was much greater than originally thought.
It’s too late. The Genie is out of the bottle. Complaining about what you think the Giants should have done, but no other team ever would, is useless.