With the Giants in pursuit of at least a wild card berth and maybe the NL West crown, San Francisco is looking to make some additions at the trade deadline. At least one of those possibilities is a big name, as MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (Twitter link) reports that the Giants are one of the clubs interested if Justin Verlander opts to waive his no-trade clause to join another team.
The 45-51 Mets are 6.5 games behind the Phillies for the final NL wild card slot, and four other teams sit between Philadelphia and New York in the wild card standings. While the Mets have a 9-5 record thus far in July, they may already be in too deep a hole to mount a serious charge at the postseason, and it looks like the club will be sellers in some respect at the deadline barring a big winning streak between now and August 1. Given the Mets’ record payroll, they might well wait until close to the last minute before the deadline to determine the extent (if at all) of their selloff, as the Amazins might only look to move pending free agents, or they could make a more significant move in dealing a controlled asset like Verlander.
One of the top players available in the 2022-23 offseason, Verlander signed a two-year, $86.66MM deal to join the Mets, and the contract also contains a $35MM vesting option for 2025 (Verlander gets that $35MM player option if he tosses at least 140 innings in 2024). A teres major strain near the end of Spring Training delayed Verlander’s Mets debut until May 4, and while there was some rust over his first month of action, Verlander has more recently started to display his usual form. The right-hander has a 1.74 ERA over his last five starts and 31 innings, though his strikeout rate (20.8%) and walk rate (10.4%) haven’t yet normalized.
These numbers, the large salary, and Verlander’s age (40) stand out as red flags for a possible trade suitors, though these concerns are also perhaps simply outweighed by Verlander’s incredible track record. It was just last season that Verlander won the AL Cy Young Award and helped lead the Astros to a World Series title, and even his recent outings suggest that he has plenty left in the tank. An argument can also be made that Verlander might benefit from a change of scenery, with the ideal scenario being his last stint as a trade candidate. Verlander was already pitching well for the Tigers in 2017 but his performance was kicked into a higher gear when Detroit moved him to Houston on August 31, resulting in Verlander playing a big part in the Astros’ first championship.
It is worth noting that Verlander waived a previous no-trade clause in his Tigers contract to accommodate that 2017 deal, though the Astros agreed to waive a $22MM vesting option that was included for the 2020 season. If Verlander was open to a trade this summer, he might first insist that his potential $35MM in 2025 get turned into a player option right away, without the vesting threshold. Of course, this is just speculative and Verlander might be willing to waive his no-trade protection entirely to join a contender, but it is an example of the leverage that he holds in whatever trade talks the Mets might explore with other teams.
Even taking on an extra $35MM in 2025 wouldn’t necessarily be an obstacle for the Giants, who don’t have much in the way of long-term payroll commitments on their books. Acquiring Verlander would also represent a win in the team’s longstanding search to land a face-of-the-franchise superstar, after coming up short on signing Aaron Judge in the offseason and having their deal with Carlos Correa scuttled due to medical concerns. This isn’t the first time San Francisco has been linked to Verlander, as the Giants were one of the many teams who had scouts attending Verlander’s showcase when he was a free agent in the 2021-22 offseason.
Despite the high price tag of Verlander’s contract, the length of the deal fits the Giants’ general preference for shorter-term contracts, especially for pitchers. Most of San Francisco’s current rotation consists of veteran starters on two-year or three-year contracts, and since Alex Wood and (pending a club option) Alex Cobb might both free agents this winter, trading for Verlander would provide a top-shelf upgrade both for this year’s playoff run and at least through the 2024 campaign.
Returning to the financial aspect, it is possible that Verlander’s salary might not even be the Giants’ problem, should the Mets agree to pay most or all of his salary in order to land a better prospect return. This would represent a larger-scale version of the strategy the Mets have already employed in earlier moves this summer (trading Eduardo Escobar to the Angels and temporarily acquiring Chris Flexen from the Mariners), as owner Steve Cohen has no issue in spending big, whether that means acquiring MLB talent or in using the payroll to accommodate the acquisition of premium young talent. Considering that the Mets still plan to contend in 2024, they would naturally want some big league-ready help if they moved a front-of-the-rotation arm like Verlander.
Old York
Quote:
The right-hander has a 1.74 ERA over his last five starts and 31 innings, though his strikeout rate (20.8%) and walk rate (104%) haven’t yet normalized.
104% walk rate? Oh, my goodness. No thank you.
Hemlock
I don’t think there’s any chance that the Mets trade him. What about 2024? That would seem to be giving up.
GMoney2850
Where are all those Padre fans who were laughing at the Giants this off-season? Can’t find any of em, it’s so weird.
GarryHarris
Don’t let the Mets off the hook for “window shopping” free agents.
MarlinsFanBase
Agreed.
Although, even if Starling Marte on the IL and Avisail Garcia on a rehab assignment, I’d probably still trade Garcia for Marte, and take on Marte’s full financial obligation.
rct
Mets would probably take you up on that. Marte has been horrible this season and has looked completely lost at times. Still two more years at $20 mil apiece.
MarlinsFanBase
@rct
Can we both be GMs for just 5 minutes to make this happen!
No take-backs either!
Funny thing is it mught work for both teams and players.
Avi is a true RF defensively and may feel more confortable in the Mets lineup.
Marte would go back to CF with the Marlins, and he would have young pieces spelling him when he goes down. Also, his game fits more with what the Marlins do offensively Marlins move Jazz back to the infield.
bigmetfan
@MarlinsFanBase – I am as big a Metfan as there is, and believe me, you don’t want Marte playing CF. His defense, which was pretty good last year, as i recall, has really slipped this year and he is in the bottom 3% (or something like that) in Defensive ratings. He is no longer even an average CF and his hitting has fallen off of the charts this season. Double plays, no power, and he doesn’t look the same as the pre-surgery Marte. I hold out hope that he will bounce back and play more like last year, when he was excellent in all areas, but I wouldn’t trade for him, especially with all the $$ remaining on his contract.
Pete'sView
When Starling Marte is healthy I want him on my team (which he isn’t), even at his age. Let’s not be too quick to write him off.
MarlinsFanBase
@bigmetfan
As crazy as it sounds, I still would take a Marte for Garcia trade for my Marlins.
Both of them have two years left on their deals, but obviously Marte’s is for significantly higher AAV. I’d still take it.
While Marte is getting beat up by Father Time, Avi Garcia is showing all the earmarks of a player that may have used PEDs for his contract years and got off of them in his other years. The Marlins gave him a 4-year deal, which looks like he’ll be complete garbage until the last year of that deal.
Also, while both look like lost money, both can be salvaged because Avi at least gives the Mets a legit RF. And Avi may feel mroe comfortable batting in a lineup with Alonso, Lindor and McNeil where he’ll have less pressure.
On the other hand, Marte would be in CF with some younger pieces supporting him when he goes down, and his overall coverage will be different playing between De La Cruz and Sanchez, who both are younger and more mobile than the guys roaming in the Mets OF. Additionally, Marte would have a different role with the Marlins, which play an offensive strategy that Marte’s game is more in line with. In the Mets, he’s expected to be a different type of player that he can no longer be at this point in his career as his physical strength dwindles.
BrianStrowman9
I don’t think marte’s physical strength is dwindling. Remaining strong is much easier than remaining fast. That’s what he’s losing. He’s losing bat and foot speed. That’s tough to beat.
I think the Mets would probably entertain that offer to save some cash off a clunker.
findingnimmo
Pay all of this year and even throw ten mill to next year. Get matos or whisenhunt and another top 15 prospect (of or sp depending on which of the first two they get).
86mets
Nope. Not doing business with SF. Forget it.
sfjackcoke
That Ruf-Davis deal made little sense, first I would have thought NYM would have wanted Wilmer back, but then it was a 3 for 1? That said doesn’t SF deserve some kudo’s for unlocking JD Davis not only at the plate but in the field. He’s been fantastic defensively, like almost unrecognizably good.
Welp
SF rarely gets credit enough for revitalizing (or for that matter, vitalizing) a batter’s career that other teams have passed up. Wade Jr., Thairo Estrada, Yaz being prime examples.
foppert1
No they don’t. You could throw in a pitcher or three as well. Not even from their own fans, despite the fact players constantly talk up what they do in that regard. So many baseball fans are locked into the existing superstar mindset. Nothing else matters to them.
agnes gooch
Right on foppert!
Welp
Could this be Coach Jesse Foppert?
foppert1
I get this a lot !
No. He just has a special little place in my baseball heart. He was the first young Giant I put some emotional investment into.
Welp
He was a beast I hear, I actually played under him for a year in high school. Such a cool guy
foppert1
Ha ha. That’s awesome. The world is a small place these days.
He was a far from beastly looking baby faced kid when he came up. Threw hard though. He was quickly my favourite.
phenomenalajs
Exactly. I thought Wilmer would be coming back for that package considering he was a rental at the time.
Jdt8312
They wanted Ruf to go against lefties, and Vogelbach for righties. JD Davis was not the player for the Mets that he is for the Giants, sad to say. They never would have traded him if they could get some offense out of him. Glad he’s doing better in SF. He’s a good guy.
JackStrawb
The point was, the Mets were so inept they couldn’t fix JDD when he was right in front of them. That he immediately went on a tear with the Giants, is likely evidence that the Mets were distorting his approach at the plate.
Jdt8312
How about because he went back home, where he grew up, and has family. You think that may have contributed?
JackStrawb
JDD started hitting again the day he got to SFG. I’ll give the Giants credit for not screwing him up in the field, but wrt hitting that was Davis just getting away from the Mets and however they’re screwing up ballplayers these days.
theonlyutahbaseballfan
Beltran for Wheeler was a good deal
brooklyn62
No kidding! The ghost of Darin Ruf says,”DON’T TRADE WITH THE GIANTS!!”.
Candlestoked
Hearing Giants send a package of Thomas Szapucki, Nick Zwack and Carson Seymour.
Monkey’s Uncle
Throw in Kate Upton and it’s a deal. Actually, just send her, forget Justin, and it’s a deal.
BrianStrowman9
Uncle Steve wants Whisenhunt.
dugmet
Mason Black seems fair.
Wheeler Dealer
Still pissed Cubs didn’t get him in 2017 he wanted to come to Chicago and bring big jugs with him
agnes gooch
No no no no no no no! Zaidi is too smart for this. Ownership may want his name to sell tickets but he is a huge no for me! Plus we owned him in the 2012 World Series!
Winn and Beck have looked good, I would rather see them and bring up Mason Black soon too. I was hoping to see Kyle Harrison this year but he might be out with an injury.
GMoney2850
Beck is 27 and K’ing 6.5 per 9 in relief. Pretty sure they’ll gladly part with him, lol. Winn doesn’t even try to throw a third pitch. Doubt anyone wants either of those guys
agnes gooch
GMoney, I wasn’t saying Winn or Beck are Cy Young, I just said I’d rather see them play for us than pay Verlander or give up Black, Harrison or Whisenhunt who I’d rather see with us next year.
foppert1
I’m with you, Agnes. I want to see the best of the young potential continue to develop in orange and black. At a minimum, it’s going to be an interesting week !
agnes gooch
Totally spot on as usual foppert!
Pete'sView
foppert1 & agnes gooch — You two always answer for me, so thanks (as usual).
claude raymond
GMoney, or whoever your acerbic self used to be, Agnes wasn’t talking about trading them. She’s saying she likes having them and is fine with the Giants going with them. And your nasty responses to others don’t do us real Giants favors. My guess is you once were a Farhan super critic, wanted to or did bolt the bandwagon and have crawled back on it. So do us legit fans a favor and take a bus.
foppert1
Good work, Claude. Gmoney is making me cringe.
agnes gooch
Thank you Claude!
DanUgglasRing
Harrison can’t throw strikes and behind Webb and Cobb we have garbage and the bullpen. The Giants need at least one proven starter and Verlander could be a huge push in the right direction for a playoff run. We just got owned by the Nats dude. We need wins and wins come from the mound.
agnes gooch
Dan Uggla, what is our record in the last 10? The sky isn’t falling. We were actually doing better with the opener games/bulk innings than we are with the traditional starter. The real problem now is the hitting has gone cold, too many injuries and slumps. We need a hot Yaz, Conforto, JD, Thairo, Hanny, etc. That’s a lot of power missing.
DanUgglasRing
The giants aren’t going to win 7 of 10 all the time. Davis is already having issues offensively Schmitt still barely walks swings at Baez quality sliders down and away Wade’s back and hamstring are holding his production up especially defensively Flores isn’t gonna have a .800+ OPS Conforto is cold Wood gives up five in three every other week I mean should I continue?
DanUgglasRing
Stripling, Manaea, and Desclafani are all toast. If Winn can demonstrate he’s a regular starter then maybe we have something but without plus production from he and Beck we need more pitching period. The Pen is gonna be spent when we need them the most. We’ve seen it before.
agnes gooch
Dan Ugggghhh! If you are a doomer, this is your view!
gravel
He’s not wrong.
DanUgglasRing
I wish I was, believe me. 10-1 last night by the way because god forbid we don’t win every single Webb start the rest of the year
Chipsss
You’re laying out all the problems without being mean and they still look down on you. Delusion giants fans are the absolute worst. Rather have bad players on their team with fun stories or nicknames instead of win in the playoffs. The results on the field are starting to mirror the true talent level of the team. They played over their heads for months on the back of great hit sequencing and a stellar back end bullpen. Those two things can’t hold up with an extremely weak rotation and a lineup of little power high strikeout guys who can’t even be trusted to play every day.
DDD09
Yeah, that’ll happen. Let’s trade one of our key starters to one of the teams we need to pass for a wild card berth. Forget it. You want Verlader? Give us back J.D. Davis! LOL!!!!
MarlinsFanBase
Um…FYI…Mets are several days from selling…if anyone is dumb enough to give them anything for any of their overpriced dinosaurs.
BrianStrowman9
@MFB
The marlins will be buying in a few days after watching the rox complete their 3rd straight sweep of the formerly over performing Miami club. Bad timing for you here….
NY & Miami both have a fork in them.
DDD09
Marlins have a fork in them.
MarlinsFanBase
Yep, Marlins are done. It was a nice run though.
Let’s see where we go from here.
As for pieces to sell, I’m hoping that Garrett Cooper stays healthy through the deadline so we can move him (finally). Also, look into moving otehr pieces that don’t have a future with us.
SupremeZeus
Always better to a trade player a year to early than a year to late.
iverbure
Fans don’t understand this. That’s why they’re constantly baffled at what the rays do. According to the fans the rays have lost every trade they’ve ever made sans the Archer one.
Chipsss
You’re right, dumb fans not understanding the genius of the ring-less Rays.
Look I get what you’re saying, the rays are well run for their limitations but they are unlikely to ever win a single championship let alone multiple rings over a decade because they can’t spend the money needed to get the best players locked up. That is what they are. Other teams (the giants included most of all) are so wealthy it should make us fans sick. They don’t need to nickel and dime with bulk inning relievers and platoon 1 WAR bats, but they are. And they know the majority of fans get tricked, somehow. I don’t get it, but that’s where we are.
amk1920
Farhan got left at the alter by Judge now he wants to bail the Mets out of that awful contract.
foppert1
Or he gets Cohen to pay for plenty of that awful contract. You seem to have an issue with premature ejaculation, amk. How’s our awful farm doing this year ?
claude raymond
You know fopp, I feel it’s time for a 100 game (almost) assessment. Yankees are 3 games out of AL wild card and 4 over .500. Judge still hurt and Yankee fans wish Rodon was. Over 7 era and throwing kisses to the fans. CaptainJudge99 and 27champyankees? Feel free to give us more lame comments about SF. And Correa is less than league average in being league average. I haven’t seen the criticisms of Kaplers bullpen management but I would like to point out that Bochys Rangers bullpen is 25th or so in MLB. Yes, we loved Bochy and still do, but this is proof that Bochy managed the core 4 relievers for SF because they were already established and easy to plug and pitch. He didn’t establish them, they kinda established him as the great bullpen manager he gets so much credit for. Now, he’s finding that he can’t be a miracle bullpen worker without the bullpen playing their part. Kapler–2021 bullpen best in baseball, 2022 bullpen horrible, 2023 bullpen great again. My point is Bochy and Kapler are only good bullpen managers if pitchers meet expectations. So, the Kapler bullpen criticism that was so prevalent here in early season was unwarranted just as much as a Bochy bullpen management criticism is unwarranted now. If Kapler had the Rsnger bullpen they’d still stink and if Bochy had the SF bullpen they’d still be excellent. Padres management has done a great job building that team but if the players aren’t meeting expectations it doesn’t matter. And Mets over spent and over expected. The Senga sign was great and Nimmo has been great but I think many of us expected Scherzer Verlander $$$ to be mistakes.
Anyway, I’m kinda rambling now but with about 60 games left, a lot can happen. Just ask the 2020 Dodgers. I expect the Padres to make a run. I expect SF to pick up a middle infielder and an arm but like you and Agnes, I don’t want to give up too much. With Angels sweeping Yankees, poor Yanks, they would would probably not trade Ohtani but could trade him to a team for current MLB players and MLB ready prospects. Otherwise Angels fans would go goofy. That would kinda leave the Giants out I’d expect…which is nice.
foppert1
Good read, Claude. Texas isn’t on my radar so I learnt stuff. Like any Giants fan, I’m happy Bochy has come back with some success. I also appreciate the work Kapler and the coaches put into their moves. They don’t guess. They don’t rely on emotion. They aren’t afraid of outside the box. The players seem to respect them. I’m real good with that.
The Judge and Rodon situations are amusing to say the least. Despite the injury, I’d still rather Judge be on our IL. Rodon was never a long term Giant. Kapler diplomatically voiced concerns early on in his Giants tenure about the lack of mental discipline and resulting lack of emotional control. It didn’t get better. He got paid. That’s what he wanted. I hope he is enjoying the “invested” environment over there.
I’m hopeful, but worried about the run home. This week, my analytics Giants podcaster put the fear of God into me about the unsustainability of the clutch hitting we have enjoyed so far. That, and the way the last couple of games have gone has me on edge. Hoping Zaidi comes up with a well balanced move or two. Whatever happens, I think we have a good platform for next year.
Pete'sView
claude raymond — Agreed. This is not the time for the Gianas to trade a slew of prospects for Ohtani (the rental). Go after him when he’s a free agent. The same can be said (to a lesser degree) about acquiring Verlander. Mets are gonna have to pay down some of that contract (possibly next years?) but SF has the money and Verlander is a unicorn (even if he’s an older one). I’m not giving the Mets a Harrison, Luciano or Whisenhunt, but I could see one or two further down the prospect list being worthwhile for THE RUN and next year.
amk1920
Have you looked at Matos and Schmitt’s numbers recently? What is so impressive about your rookies. Bailey’s BABIP luck is regressing and his OPS+ is already down to average. Although his defense is good I will give you.
foppert1
Yes I have. Better than that. I watch them every day. Do you ?
The fact they have led us to a very solid record while learning on the run. The potential for improvement and success the system has had in preparing them is obvious. Not a small sample either. I think it was 8 making their debut at last count. You could argue against Schmidt, but they all look like they very much belong. Not an over awed rookie in sight. Your ultra negative assessment on the Giants farm preparation system was wrong.
amk1920
It’s wrong because 1/3 top prospects they called up have performed? Lmao. Giants have a respectable record but the team is streaky and way too platoon oriented
foppert1
Ok. You keep on being a box score based Giants rookie expert. Time will tell. We’ll touch base at seasons end and review the situation.
amk1920
Yes, you generally judge a player based on their stats. That’s how this all works
foppert1
I’m thinking poise and the context available by watching is pretty important when judging a rookie’s potential impact. The fact that teams still send scouts to games despite the plethora of data available to them has me thinking that as well. But that’s ok. I’ll stick to watching and listening to Giants insiders. You stick to your stats and we will see what happens as time progresses.
Pete'sView
amk1920 — I probably watch 135 Giant games a year. You have too quick a trigger finger when it comes to rookies. No one is more disappointed by Scmitt’s penchant for chasing than Giants fans, but he—like Bailey, Matos, and Sabol are only going to improve with time. I’ll be happy to see Schmitt as next years everyday shortstop.
foppert1
Beck and Winn have also been impressive. You can’t leave them out. I think they might even have good stats !
amk1920
Giants insiders won’t give you the hard truths. They’ll tell you it was perfectly fine to draft Will Bednar, Matt Mikulski, Hunter Bishop, Joey Bart with high picks.
foppert1
Actually, the ones I listen too don’t do that. It’s why I listen to them.
Which ones do you listen too ?
foppert1
Let me guess…..you don’t listen to any. You just know everything.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
I’m sure everyone is interested in him. Now, his 43.3 million salary, on the other hand…
Dogs
The best deal the Mets would ever get would be Javier Báez & Eduardo Rodriguez for Verlander & Scherzer even up.
Even Harris would laugh at my proposal & require the Mets pay half of both salaries before that trade would be finalized.
MarlinsFanBase
IDK…I’d be willing to give Avisail Garcia, Johnny Cueto and Jean Segura for Verlander.
Gmen777
It’s really sad that as bad as he’s been he’d be the third best pitcher on the Giants
gbs42
Verlander has a 3.47 ERA. That’s bad???
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
That is pretty bad for a 43.3 million salary, yes.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
If the Mets want to trade off Verlander, they either have to pay off 3/4s of his remaining salary or package him with prospects. He is a net negative. Even if he was a CY YOUNG contender, he’d still be a negative. There is a reason why no one even came close into offering him 80 mil
SonnySteele
Watch the Mets trade Verlander straight up for JD Davis. 😉
And pay half of Verlander’s salary.
Pete'sView
JD Davis going nowhere. His glove and arm, alone, are a reason he stays put. He’s close to Gold Glove.
Bill M
As a Mets fan, I’d love that
Chipsss
Jd is the very definition of average. Again… smoke and mirrors for Giants fans more interested in narrative than sustainable success. JD is an amazing defensive player, but his bat has been very very bad outside of a short period when he was on fire. It all ends up looking like an average mlb player. Which is fine, but not when your whole team is made up of them. It’s like Thairo. I like Thairo a lot! He’s much more valuable than JD in my opinion, and every team should want a guy like that. But he can’t be your best player. That’s insane. And giants fans acting as if the team’s offense is bottom of the league because thairo and the oft injured (and quite bad pre-injury) Haniger are hurt are just setting themselves up for confusion when the team misses the playoffs.
Again… I don’t understand why people would rather live in delusion to the point of smugly talking down on anyone who doesn’t join in on their delusion. And I should refrain from the personal attacks, what can I say I was drunk last night. Watching that giants game will do that to you. So I apologize for saying anything bad about other posters on this site. However, anyone thinking I’m dumb or that I don’t watch the giants or understand finance info, prospects etc simply because I don’t fall in love with replacement level pitchers and journeymen infielders is …I don’t know. You all are like the delusion people on politics too. Rather be lied to than open your eyes.
Rant over. I’ve got the end of another sad giants loss to watch.
SFBay314
Hate this. Giolito instead please
claude raymond
SFBay314, so do i. This seldom gets mentioned but SF is about $11million under the tax threshold and they absolutely do not want to be over this year. So ANY trade for a high salaried player is not in their plans unless 1. the trading team agrees to pay some of the salary and 2. SF trades a player(s) with high salaries (e.g. Pederson). It’s been documented that SF plans to spend big next season and might not be worried about exceeding the tax threshold then. Plus Crawford and Pederson will be off the books and possibly Conforto. Unfortunately Stripling and Manaea will likely opt in (SF likely expected they’d opt out, like Rodon, but their bad seasons have changed that expectation). This is why I feel they plan to outbid everyone for Ohtani I’m free agency. BTW, SFBay314, were you born in Pi day? Just curious about ur username
SFBay314
Agreed on lux tax. No pi. It’s the section of my season tickets for giants
VirginiaGiant
SF is rumored to spend big every year but never do.
Please not another ancient pitcher
DanUgglasRing
I think it’s a great move for the Giants and they shouldn’t be too precious about the prospects to get this done. Maybe it’ll even show Ohtani that the wallet is open a the FO is trying to win now. For the Mets, I’d demand more pitching in return than the Giants would realistically want to give up. In theory it could help both teams but I have a hard time imagining it getting done.
tuck 2
Why would Mets trade their two year contracts ?
flamingbagofpoop
Because it was bad when they signed it and worse now
dasit
can’t see the mets selling. they’re one winning streak away from being in the thick of it come september and have so much money they can get deadline help without damaging the farm system
SonnySteele
Dasit: I’ll be your favorite Engelbert Humperdink song is “I Believe in Miracles.” 😉
JackStrawb
@dasit It’s not a bad idea at all. Making a run and failing with something like an 82-80 record probably leaves a better taste than dumping talent for marginal prospects and ending up 72-90.
The real question is, can they add a significant prospect(s) for what they have to offer in trade?
And another problem is, if they eat a ton of salary, say most of Verlander and Scherzer’s salaries for 2024-25, even Cohen won’t have much appetite for replacing them with strong FA starters at another $25m each, or around $90m total once you add in more LT penalties. So is he willing to punt the next couple of years, especially since the Mets farm is in fairly pitiful shape, when the alternative is to push payroll over $400m in 2024, and over $500m when you add in penalties?
TellItGoodbye
Whatever package the Giants send, please oh please let it include Joey Bart. I’ll sleep better at night.
MPrck
Getting rid of J.V by the Mets would be idiotic, unless they go total rebuild. He should still win close to 14 games this year, and he’ll pitch the next two easy. It would be a great pick up for the Giants if they do get him. The Mets need to get rid of the G.M who brought Rendon to the Angels, that would be the best choice for the Mets.
flamingbagofpoop
Pitcher wins don’t tell you much…
If the mets trade him, I don’t understand how that means they need to go full rebuild. You do understand that free agency happens every year, right? They can use any money they save to sign someone that’s not 100.
geofft
Yes but dealing off Verlander leaves them with only three starters heading into next season, and no legitimate depth behind those three.
Scherzer is clearly not Scherzer anymore. And Senga generally pitches well on long rest, and spotty or bad on normal r(for US) rest. So they’d need to sign at least 3 legitimate starters and one of those would need to be an ace.
Thats a lot considering all of the other holes that also have to be filled.
SonnySteele
Cohen might be smart to forbid Eppler from trading anyone. Jettison him in favor of David Stearns two seconds after the last out in the world series and let Dave make the trades.
SalaryCapMyth
You know what poster I wish would pop his head up? MetsFan22. He was so damn obnoxious about the Mets before this season I can’t imagine he will.
SonnySteele
Another fair weather fan, perhaps. But his dogged insistence that the Mets are the cat’s ass was amusing.
Rsox
Some of the Giants “interest” may be just to bait the Dodgers into over paying for either Verlander or Scherzer
Samuel
Dodgers are too experienced and professional to be concerned.
It appears they’ve started kicking it in the past week or so. They’re a money team and the final stretch has begun. Expect them do do even better in August and September.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
The Dodgers don’t need any additions. Just see how they blew out one of the too teams in the AL yesterday (Texas). They have just been underperformed this year, with Buehler out and Kershaw playing on and off.
Redwolves3
Why Verlander? Typical Zaidi. He’s no more than a “band aid fix” that offers no long term solution. Zaidi needs to focus on starting pitchers like Cease, Bieber, Giolito, Rodriguez, Keller, Montgomery, Flaherty, Gilbert. And definitely not Stroman!
Pete'sView
Giolito is a rental. Bieber is injured. Pirates will not trade Keller. Dylan Cease is good but really only has had one great season. Flaherty is done.. Mariners tell you go away if you ask for Gilbert. Rodriguez is a #3 having the best season of his career. Montgomery is the only suggestion that the Giants would find interesting. As is Verlander.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Justin’s long lost brother, Shane, is injured.
iverbure
Says verlander doesn’t offer long term solution proceeds to list 3/4 rentals and 3 guys their teams wouldn’t ever give up until their rentals. Man some people think they know what they’re talking about and have zero idea.
Mac Attack
Giants are interested but this knucklehead tells us why they aren’t. 1.74 ERA in recent starts is why.
DCartrow
You’re giving Redwolves flak, he’ll rip your lungs out Mac.
Huh! I’d like to meet his tailor!
Bill M
I’d like to meet James Taylor
Flanster
But his hair is …perfect
BlueSkies_LA
Ahhh-oooo!
JoeBrady
1.74 ERA in recent starts is why.
==================================
But with a 3.39 FIP and a 26/13 K/W in 31 IPs.
JackStrawb
@JoeBrady Yup. Notable good luck on balls in play, by his own career standard.
Still, if you’re the Giants you wouldn’t mind having a rested Verlander (if you can manage that) as your #3 or #4 starter in a 3-4 round postseason.
Central Valley
Who’s untouchable on the Giants during this year’s trade deadline?
Which players does Farhan hang up the phone for?
claude raymond
CV, don’t you think it matters who the trade is for and the ask? I mean Harrison is probably a good answer to your posit but if Angels were trading Ohtani and Trout together, FZ likely says “Harrison? Hell yes”. Probably not a great example but you get my idea I think. In general, I’ll say Harrison, Luciano and one of Whisenhunt or Black. Sounds too restrictive maybe? Expendables should be Ramos, Bart, Fitzgerald, Matos, Hjelle, Mecklenburg, etc. There are several that teams might want. What do you say CV?
claude raymond
Meckler not Mecklenburg
foppert1
Matos ? You are killing me, Claude.
21 going on 31. Cool as. Reportedly a good learner. Athletic. Confident body language without being arrogant. Holding his own in his first crack at it. Please no. Got to be a keeper.
claude raymond
I think I said Matos as a player that might keep buyer from seeking more indispensable player. “we can get matos? forget luciano” Hell, I don’t know, maybe I should stop sniffing glue. Matos’ defense is Mays like. So it would have to be to get Ohtani.
Mr big dig
Giants always patching together a team of AAA guys rabid veterans.
Let’s hope The Giants don’t sign Goldmember.
AlienBob
Signing Verlander would probably take the Giants out of the running for Ohtani.
JackStrawb
Why? Should depend entirely on the money the Mets are picking up, and how that affects the Giants in the next couple of seasons. I doubt a slight increase in payroll in advance of 2024 will affect whether they push for Shohei.
giantwarrioras49ersraiders
SF needs to get verlander LA gives the farm for Ohtani. The Ohtani joins SF next year… Ohtani, verlander, Webb with out giving up nothing but $$$$$
giantwarrioras49ersraiders
SF needs to get verlander LA gives the farm for Ohtani. The Ohtani joins SF next year… Ohtani, verlander, Webb with out giving up nothing but $$$$$$$
dankyank
Apparently Steve Cohen considers upward of $50 million and a competitive balance draft pick fair value for maybe 3 or 4 prospects. Other GMs should take note.
SFGiantsGallore
Acquiring a 40-year old Verlander is a bad idea. I really hope that Zaidi does NOT do it. We already have a thin farm system and this would just make it that much more depleted. Every team has a “win now” attitude but the Giants are not a free agent short of being contenders so why waste the money and/or the farm. Next offseason will be HUGE for the Giants if we can just be patient.
JoeBrady
I’d liken them to the RS. I wouldn’t mind giving up a non-premium prospect for a #3/good #4 type, but I would in no way mortgage the farm just to have a 50% chance of getting the last slot in the playoffs.
thefaithfulfriar
Dog days are gonna be wild in the west…
JackStrawb
“…and it looks like the club will be sellers in some respect at the deadline.”
—The Mets would be foolish to half-arse the deadline. If they’re getting out, they should get all the way out. 2024-2025 is likely to be bad, and hanging onto the 40 year old Verlander and to Quintana and even Alonso while dealing only, say, Pham and Canha just means they’ll be snagging some contender’s #19 and #25 prospects.
Meanwhile, if you subtract Senga, Alvarez, and Baty from the Mets’ farm system listing at fangraphs, they drop from having the #6 ranked system all the way down to #23. And that’s after three years of Cohen claiming he wanted to build a Dodger-style organization. That’s not working out for you, Steve. You need real help, not someone like Eppler to carry out your insistence on building the oldest 5-man rotation in baseball history and crafting a bullpen out of DFAs and twice-failed relievers from other organizations.
When you have to eat Flexen’s salary plus penalties in order to add the likes of Trevor Gott, you know you effed up. The Mets currently have all of three relievers with both an ERA and a FIP under 4.50. That’s catastrophically poor talent evaluation.
Amazins
Couldn’t agree more Jack, if they can move Verlander and/or Max, and pretty much anyone not named Alvarez, do it. Too bad Eppler will be making those moves this week, though, he’s done a lousy job with them so far.
sfjackcoke
The days of “Wheeler for Beltran” are a thing of the past. The rental market in terms of prospect return, the intrinsic/analytical value of a prospect vs that of a 2 month rental,.. you’re not necessarily going to know names, Ohtani’s situation is in some degree the exception.
Similar to Rodon’s contact last year with the “opt-out” that is hard to value vs someone who is a pure rental, JV has a vesting option + a no trade clause to overcome in addition to health concerns. He lives in FLA so not only is SF west, so is their spring training.
That said if he wants to waive his NTC I’m all about adding JV or Max Scherzer. Those pitcher should look at how SF has handled Wood, Gausman, Rodon and others and feel like they’re in good hands. Not knocking NYM but that is an organization in transition and personally I’m not a Buck Showalter guy.
Kapler is interesting as I think there is a tremendous amount of “group-think” that happens there as part of their day to day preparation. As a result I think many of the in game choices are not done in the moment. Sort of like how 49ers script plays
In a week + rosters are essentially frozen from now until end of the WS, right now the Giants are short a middle infielder, seriously why isn’t Paul DeJong a Giants yet? And a front rotation arm. Their bullpen is good and about to get better with Brebbia and Jackson due back soon. Defensive & pitching win in October, always has, always will. The Giants don’t have enough right now, but do have the $ and farm depth to get to October.
buya
Is this a joke?
NYMetsFanatic
Dear Giants, we’ll give you Verlander for a pound of unripened bananas and JD Davis back. Thank you.