The Angels are pushing the chips in. The Halos swung a late-night trade for Lucas Giolito and Reynaldo López from the White Sox, the teams announced. Prospects Edgar Quero and Ky Bush are going back to Chicago.
Los Angeles declared themselves buyers this evening when they formally took Shohei Ohtani off the trade market. Once they committed to making a push in Ohtani’s final season of club control, there was little reason not to act boldly. They’ve done just that, surrendering two of their top prospects for the top rental starter available and a relief upgrade.
Ironically, Giolito and López both landed with the White Sox in the same trade nearly seven years ago. Both had debuted with the Nationals in 2016 before being included in the Adam Eaton package during that year’s Winter Meetings. They’ve spent the past six-plus seasons on Chicago’s South Side.
Giolito has developed into the more valuable of the duo. After a disastrous 2018 season, the Southern California native blossomed into an upper mid-rotation starter. He has posted a sub-4.00 ERA in four of the past five years, including a 3.79 mark through 121 frames this season.
He has backed up that solid run prevention with above-average peripherals. Giolito is striking out 25.8% of opponents against an 8.3% walk rate. He’s generating swinging strikes on 11.9% of his offerings. It’s a third consecutive season in which he’s been above-average across the board.
Giolito hasn’t quite developed into the ace it seemed he might become when he finished in the top 10 in Cy Young balloting in 2019-20. His average fastball speed is down a tick from those peak seasons, and he’s lost a few whiffs on each of his offerings. Still, the 29-year-old is a clear playoff caliber starter. He averages just under six innings per start while holding opponents to a .232/.301/.430 batting line. Giolito is effective against hitters of either handedness and has essentially avoided any major injuries in his MLB career.
That kind of durability and effectiveness should be a major boost to a Halos’ rotation that entered play Wednesday ranked 20th in the majors in ERA. Ohtani is the one pitcher allowing fewer than four earned runs per nine on the season. Reid Detmers has a 4.38 ERA but a strikeout rate north of 29% that suggests he fits well in the middle of a rotation. Patrick Sandoval and Griffin Canning have been fine back-end arms. Tyler Anderson has underperformed in the first season of a three-year deal, working to a 5.18 ERA. He slots sixth in the Halos’ six-man starting staff, while Giolito’s addition should firmly push Jaime Barria into long relief if the rest of the group stays healthy.
Barria has been more effective out of the bullpen than when pressed into rotation work. Giolito’s acquisition indirectly upgrades the relief corps in that regard, while the addition of López helps the bullpen in a more straightforward way.
The 29-year-old righty moved to relief for good by the start of the 2022 season. He was excellent in that role last year, pitching to a 2.76 ERA across 65 1/3 frames. It has been more of a mixed bag in 2023. López carries a 4.29 ERA in 42 innings. His walks have jumped from a minuscule 4.3% clip last year to a concerning 12.4% rate.
However, the uptick in free passes has been paired with a jump in whiffs. López has punched out a career-best 29.2% of batters faced. He’s picking up swinging strikes on 13.4% of his offerings while averaging 98.3 MPH on his heater and 87.9 MPH on the slider. López is a high-octane arm to pair with Matt Moore as setup options in front of closer Carlos Estévez. The Halos could look for additional ways of bolstering the middle innings mix between now and the August 1 trade deadline.
Both Giolito and López are firmly win-now pieces. Each is an impending free agent. Giolito is arguably the top non-Ohtani starter who’ll hit the open market. He’s on his way to exceeding nine figures. That always made it likely the White Sox — whose franchise-record expenditure is the $75MM Andrew Benintendi pact — would not re-sign him.
A midseason deal, while not unexpected, is a nice boost to Giolito’s eventual earning power. Players traded midseason cannot be tagged with a qualifying offer. Giolito would obviously have received one had the Sox retained him past the deadline, but he’ll now hit the open market without a signing team needing to forfeit draft capital.
The more immediate benefit, of course, is that both pitchers will get a chance to compete for a postseason spot. The Halos are four games out in the Wild Card race and seven back in the AL West. They’re clearly pushing the chips in for this season and figure to continue to be aggressive in the next few days. Adding corner infield help with Anthony Rendon and Brandon Drury on the shelf and Jared Walsh struggling enough to be optioned to Triple-A makes plenty of sense; to that end, the Halos have reportedly been in touch with the Nationals regarding third baseman Jeimer Candelario.
As part of that all-in mentality, the Angels relinquished a pair of their most talented prospects. Quero is one of the game’s top minor league backstops. The switch-hitter reached Double-A by his 20th birthday and is holding his own in a pitcher-friendly setting. Over 317 plate appearances, Quero owns a .245/.385/.332 batting line. He’s only hit three home runs but is walking at a massive 17% clip while striking out just 16.7% of the time.
That kind of plate discipline is exceptionally rare for a hitter so young. The Cuban-born backstop is the sport’s #61 overall prospect at FanGraphs and 85th at Baseball America. Scouting reports predictably rave about his advanced offensive skills and suggest he has a good chance to be a regular in the long term.
The Halos already have a potential catcher of the future in Logan O’Hoppe. Acquired from the Phillies last summer, O’Hoppe has been limited to 21 big league contests because of a labrum tear in his shoulder. He’s controllable for five seasons beyond this one, though, perhaps making Quero a little more expendable to the organization.
Chicago had no such long-term answer behind the dish. Yasmani Grandal is headed to free agency on the heels of a fine but unexceptional year. It’s probably unreasonable to expect Quero to immediately succeed Grandal as the #1 backstop next season, but it doesn’t seem out of the question he could reach the majors at some point in 2024. That upper minors proximity is surely appealing to a Chicago team reloading for next year.
Bush, a 23-year-old southpaw, was also at Double-A. A second-round pick out of St. Mary’s in 2021, he ranked ninth among Angels’ prospects in Eric Longenhagen’s recent organizational rankings at FanGraphs. Both Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel of ESPN (on Twitter) suggest the 6’6″ hurler has a chance to stick as a starter and praise his slider, though Longenhagen raises concerns about his low-90s fastball. Bush has been a little homer-prone in his first six Double-A starts but is striking out nearly 30% of opponents there.
It’s a strong return for a pair of impending free agents, with Quero the clear headliner. Yet it’s understandable the Angels would part with those players (particularly with O’Hoppe in the fold) to make a push this season. Their aggressiveness extends beyond the prospect capital, as the trade officially pushed them into luxury tax territory.
The Halos were right around the $233MM competitive balance tax threshold before the move. They’re taking on what remains of the respective $10.4MM and $3.625MM arbitration salaries for Giolito and López. That’s around $3.75MM on Giolito and $1.31MM on López. That’ll push their estimated CBT figure to around $238MM pending future additions.
It’s clear owner Arte Moreno will sign off on paying the tax for the first time. The financial penalties of doing so are rather minimal. As a first-time payor, they’ll pay a 20% tax on expenditures between $233MM and $253MM. The tax money they’re taking on with today’s trade is just over $1MM, a marginal amount in comparison to the team’s overall spending.
More notably, surpassing the CBT reduces the draft compensation they’d receive if they lose a qualified free agent. Teams that pay the luxury tax receive a compensation pick after the fourth round if a player rejects a qualifying offer and signs elsewhere. Clubs that stay below the threshold get a compensatory choice between Competitive Balance Round B and the third round.
Ohtani will obviously reject a QO. If the Angels don’t re-sign him, going past the CBT means they’re moving the draft compensation back a couple rounds. That’s a risk worth taking to maximize the chances of getting to the playoffs in Ohtani’s final season of arbitration. The Angels are all-in, and while this’ll probably be their biggest move of deadline season, there’s no reason to think it’s their last.
Jeff Passan of ESPN first reported the Angels and White Sox were finalizing a trade of Giolito and López for Quero and Bush.
Images courtesy of USA Today Sports.
WhiteSoxWinner
Sad to see. But decent return
Francys01
Wow, I was not expecting Giolito to be traded to the Angels. The Angels are trying to make the playoffs.
mlb fan
Anaheim has raised the ante on their season and their ability to resign Ohtani.
TheGoodsDude
Realistically still another quality starter away.
Datashark
They need one more Ohtani right?
Omarj
They’re formidable with their SP. 1 more BP arm and now we’re talking. They still have BP guys who’ll be rejoining following IL. Huge change of events in Anaheim
njbirdsfan
In fairness, Ohtani can’t win with a Hall of Famer like Trout, but getting two more pitchers is going to be what puts them over the top. Sure.
TheGoodsDude
Hardly formidable. There is a wide range of outcomes you can get from detmers, sandoval, anderson, silseth and canning. Formidable, definitely not the word you’re looking for.
Halo11Fan
It’s the bullpen a lot more than the starters. But it’s nice to see Barria out of the rotation.
TheGoodsDude
I dont disagree with that. But there is some soul searching that needs to be done if anyone thinks gio is THE piece.
Halo11Fan
It’s about who he is replacing.
HighOnPineTar
There is some new owner and GM searching that needs to be done if they’re seriously about to let Ohtani go for a comp pick when they ultimately fail to overcome Orioles/Rays, Red Sox, Jays, Yankees, Mariners, Rangers for a playoff berth…
niched
Don’t understand your comment at all. Pitching is what the Angels have needed for the past 10 years. Of course pitching is what would put them over the top. But Giolito and Lopez? Definitely feels like too little too late. They need more and fast.
aragon
Tyler Anderson.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Ohtani, Giolito, and Detmers is a pretty formidable 3 in any postseason round. They get innings out of Sandoval, Anderson, and Canning, and they’re set up pretty well on the SP front. Now, about that defense…
Rexhudler86
Does that mean Anderson is out of the rotation. Tucker released, and Webb sent down
kargus
Barria hasn’t started in almost a month. Where you been? This bumps Tyler Anderson to the 6th spot and Silseth into a swing / high leverage role which is ideal. This is big. Detmers – Sandoval – Canning are all in the process of advancing back to last year / career norms. So adding Lucas G to the stable gives Halo a solid 5.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Definitely not. Anderson gives them innings. I’d imagine that Davidson is on DFA watch and Barría goes to the pen
Rexhudler86
I’m hoping silseth gets another start, and it bumps Anderson to the bullpen
i like al conin
Why can’t they overcome the Red Sox, Yankees and Blue Jays? 4 games separate them all. The Angels can compete with any of them.
Bostonsports85
They can not afford what shohei will be asking for ..
Toksoon
Otani isn’t resigning with the angles
Samuel
Bostonsports85;
Ohtani! can play wherever he wants to. He’ll get the money because he’s a marketers dream and will generate additional revenue.
You have no idea what any team can afford.
Samuel
Toksoon;
Thanks!
Whew. Now we can all move on.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Boston, who told you that? Arte Moreno?
aragon
Loser!
kargus
Anderson has been better as of late at least keeping them in games. I think Silseth projects as potentially a lights out later inning guy with some length who could benefit from not going through the lineup a second and 3rd time right now in his career. You could also pair him up with Anderson starts for those games where he **** the bed and have a much quicker hook with Silseth as a swing man.
kargus
Yea he is.
jimthegoat
How does this increase their ability to sign Ohtani?
carllafong
I don’t think so. If they can get Snell or Verlander I think they’d win the division. But their need is for another high octane bullpen arm. Go get Hader to go with Lopez, Moore and Estevez and suddenly their bullpen is a strength. Joyce and his 103MPH is coming back and so is Bachman. Cody Bellinger would slot in nicely at first, or the Angels could trade Renfroe for a bullpen arm and then fill right field with Bellinger.
That name is already taken
Mariners are STILL behind the Angels no matter what hate goggles you have on.
carllafong
REally stupid ,Forrest. They’re already better than the Yankees. They lost 8 of 9 starters to the IL… but their replacements are winning. Adding these two pitchers is huge. I expect two more moves…. Bellinger would be perfect, and another bullpen arm– Hader or Hand are coming– watch.
carllafong
Barria isn’t in the rotation– Silseth is.
That name is already taken
Did you catch Arte with your mom or are you a Moroners fan?
carllafong
Anderson has been pitching well– very solid. He got off to a horrible start, but he’s been very good lately.
carllafong
Can I fill your glass since it is apparently half empty?
carllafong
Well, Jim… it’s like this. The Angels are only 2.5 games behind the Yankees despite losing 8 of 9 starters. Their replacements have played well, but Trout and O’Hoppe and Joyce and Bachman and Drury are all coming back. An 8-2 stretch puts them right there. There is a long way to go and these are difference making trades.
haighwiser
He may not but it definitely sounds like they are going to try. Everybody said the same thing about Trout resigning too, sounds don’t be shocked if he as an Angel until the end of his career.
astros_fan_84
As an Astros fan, this is what I’m hoping for. I’d love the Angels to go all in, miss the playoffs, lose Ohtani in free agency, and be mediocre for a few more years.
thome612
They are missing some pieces.
James123
not really. If i was ohtani, i would still be looking to leave. It is a team that went from a below average farm system to the absolute worst. And Ohoppe is the only way they are not dead list (and i would not really call him a prospect anymore).
I would not want to sign the rest of my career to a team with no future.
Ejemp2006
This is the type of deal a smart team never makes. These players are not the big time difference makers the Angels need. They should have spent that prospect capital on ERod or Verlander.
Manfred Rob's Earth Band
I fail to see the humor in that
dh4all
Yes, they can. The Angels owner, like most owners, have billions buried in their back yards.
AngelBum
These two pitchers pitch in the worse division in baseball. The Angels pitchers just struck out 18 Tigers who play in that division and are ahead of the Six. The Nationals traded both pitchers to the Sox that might give you a hint as to what the Angels got.
Halo11Fan
Is that what they decided on, Silseth?
I guess now the decided in Anderson being the sixth man
Rexhudler86
Trevor may could work he has really good splits against righties.
jjd002
Angels aren’t winning the division. They aren’t better than Houston. They aren’t even better than Texas, who will claim one of the wild cards.
M.C.Homer
Hate goggles. Like that take.
Distorted vision.
As one of the last native Californians i fully understand hatred from my fellow Americans.
I just discussed this with my coworkers yesterday. None of them from California by the way. But they all had the same to say. They were raised to hate California and they never understood why. Especially now that they live here.
kingbum
Well to be fair Trout is unavailable way too much. The best trait someone can have is availability. If the Angels are trying to stay within reason for payroll they should trade Trout in the off-season. They are a year or two behind the 8 ball in getting max value but they can still get a good RELIABLE package.
kingbum
If you gonna gamble on someone as a owner, this is it. Arte Moreno can clear a ton payroll too by trading Mike Trout. If I’m the Angels I would trade Trout in the off-season and make a run this year. Trading Trout can ease a ton of pressure off the tax threshold so they can really go after Ohtani. So yes, the Angels can resign Ohtani.
AngelBum
Angels cannot trade Trout without Trout authoring it, Trout has a No Trade Clause in his contract.
AngelBum
I like you are a native Californian, but that doesn’t mean I have to like the Angels. I watched the Angels play when they were in Los Angeles with the Dodgers cause I lived in Lo Angeles. I felt about the Angels then as I do today!
filihok
“The best trait someone can have is availability. ”
Nah. I, and nearly everyone, would rather have 100 games of Trout than, say, 162 games of Kole Calhoun.
AngelBum
Cooperdooper7
Good for the Angels…. personally I don’t think Texas is that good,, Astros will win that division and the Angels are trying to win so that is awesome.
AngelBum
Let’s see the Angels are in third place playing the easiest part of their schedule. They now head into bumpy seas playing Toronto, Atlanta and Tampa Bay not to mention Houston and Texas. You may think the Angels are going to reach the playoffs, but most people including Vegas doesn’t think so.
Captain-Judge99
Wow! Halos are not trading Ohtani, and they trade for Giolito and López, obviously they are trying to make a run for one of those wild cards now.
YourDreamGM
Love it for Angels fans. If you are keeping Ohtani might as well go for it. Hope they address all their needs.
James123
i think they can. The hitters at the deadline are likely to go for a lot less, so they still have prospects good enough to swing another trade for a few bats- and at this point you have nothing in the minors- so you might as well trade the last of it and pray you win it all this year.
angelsfan4life
For all of you, saying the Angels can’t afford to sign Ohtani. Seriously? Arte has his faults. But spending money on FA players has never been an issue. Now it’s not always been on the right FA.
AngelBum
The Angels have had Ohtani and Trout for almost five years, how many post season games have they played with those two? ZERO!
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Happy for the Anaheim fans, good for baseball, nice to see them go all in … if any fanbase needs a little cheering up & some good news its the Angels. Bravo. (And I’m a Mariners fan.)
YourDreamGM
Better than decent imo. I would be happy. Seems like one of the strongest if not the strongest return of this type in recent memory.
Degaz
Angels got fleeced
iverbure
If the Angels lose Ohtani this offseason and we assume Trout never gets back to pre injuries trout. Will they be looked at as the worst mismanaged team in history? I’m sure the argument could be made for insert franchise who hasn’t won for a 15 year period, but the Pirates from 1996-2006 didn’t have two generational talents on the team at once ever as a starting block.
Just wondering what everyone opinion is on the angels assuming ohtani signs somewhere other than with the angels.
giantsfan25
Two top 3 prospects for a rental?
fathead0507
Top 3 in Angels system isn’t much
Moneyballer
Ky Bush flamed out HARD this year. He has a lot to fix!
aladdinlee
I don’t like very much parting with him. Still, a fair price to pay, specially if Lopez puts up numbers more like last year.
Big Hurt
He already is. For those who aren’t Sox fans, his ERA was 8.78 on May 5th, since then he’s thrown 28.2 innings of 2.20 ERA ball, struck out 32 with a BAA of .170 and OPS of .512. He’s been great for almost 3 months.
Omarj
Quero and Bush are solid.
angelslovehaterelationship
True but quero is a top catching prospect in all of baseball, so he’s actually a tough loss
Samuel
They have Logan O’Hoppe long-term.
He’s better.
Rexhudler86
O hoppe was probably the best catcher in baseball before he blew his shoulder out, losing Quero sucks, but getting moniak for Thor washes it out.
kargus
O’Hoppe was balling out. but i’m Partial to Adley Rutschman. Go Beavs! Jonah Heim has a decent case to and then there’s always Will Smith
mlb fan
“Was probably the best catcher in baseball”…I understand that people think Ohoppe is a very good catching prospect, I’ve heard pretty much the same. But isn’t “best catcher” a little extreme for a guy with 21 career games played(16 this yr)and 67 career ABs, spread over 2 yrs?
Rexhudler86
Before he got hurt, should’ve added that
carllafong
He’s not better than O’Hoppe and he won’t be ready for several years– it’s a loss that will not be felt.
James123
i think it is fair to say he was in that conversation during those games this year-
drasco036
Bat first catcher to me a hard pass.
Dong Drysdale
Sad that Atlanta couldn’t try to get Giolito. Their pitching is going to be their downfall. White Sox got fringe guy in Bush and a top 20 prospect. Atlanta has nothing of value to offer teams and probably can’t afford to buy out the contract to lessen prospect asking price.
Halo11Fan
Quero is a top 100 prospect.
Nice return for two rentals.
Rexhudler86
Quero is a good catching prospect, I guess he’s expendable because they got lucky with o hoppe
GoogleMe
The stock on both Quero and Bush has fell quite a bit this year.
Quero was ranked top 100 after being named MVP in Cal League (A(, but he definitely has not enjoyed same success in AA. Ky Bush has been hurt most the season. Both are trending downwards as a result of this year.
I am not sure if this is enough to get them to the playoffs. Most the team is still hurt and they still have a few teams ahead of them. They need a lot to go right. Sandoval and Detmers need to pitch like they did in the 2nd half last year. Moniak needs to continue to be hot. They need some guys to return to the lineup, Neto, Trout, O’Hoppe, etc.. Lastly, Nevin needs to grow a brain, some of the most inexplicable moves imaginable have backfired throughout the year.
Without the injuries and Nevin, the Angels would be firmly in place as a playoff team. This move would look even better if not for the injuries and Nevin,, but as it is, this is a move of a hope and a prayer.
James123
I agree- but it is a solid return- since my head cannon tells me that they at least checked with the obvious trade partner for Giolito and either passed on Joey Ortiz or Connor Norby- or the Os were not willing to part with either for a rental (that was actually the trade that just made too much sense to me- norby for giolito)
Plugnplay
Let me clear it up for y’all. Quero is a top 2 or 3 prospect in any organization pretty much. Now Bush is another story. He shouldn’t be ranked near #3 for sure. His ceiling may be a mid to backend end of rotation guy, where Quero’s ceiling is possibly a all-star catcher. Big difference in these two, it’s not as simple as #2 and 3 in trade
NineChampionships
Textbook slegnA move. They’ll probably flip Bachman and/or Silseth next to get some more experienced arms in the pen. Might even flip the guy they just drafted as a PTBNL.
Roll
@NineChampionships
“Might even flip the guy they just drafted as a PTBNL.”
Cant they closed that loophole way back when with Trea Turner. They have to be eligible to be traded at time of the trade i believe is the wording they used.
James123
i beleive you are correct. I think Turner was the start of the trend, but i think it was Swanson a few years later that cemented that the rule needed to be changed.
Feels a little insane to me, but possible.
#LCDad
It’s a gamble. They need to win now more than ever.
YourDreamGM
Lots of buyers and few sellers. Only so many playoff starters available.
haighwiser
That’s why they should have had this mentality at the beginning of the year when they could have just signed someone like verlander instead of Anderson.
James123
didnt verlander get like 43m per year or something insane. I get why a team does not want to sign a single guy who is going to put them over the luxury tax by a huge amount- pay him 43m and pay another 10-20 in luxury tax penalties.
That name is already taken
Have you ever heard of Cabbage or Stefanic? Both tore up the minors and never made the Top 100 list that you follow like a Bible. Quero has been below average this season and Ky Bush has been constantly injured. Who cares!
BrianStrowman9
Trey Cabbage did not tear up the minors for anything more than this year……in the PCL. He’s been in the minors since 2015….
He won’t be much of a big leaguer:
carllafong
Listen, Quero is 20 and hitting .240 with two homers. He’s at least three years away from the show. O”Hoppe is their catcher of the future now– it’s a good move. Bush missed half the season with an injury and he throws in the low 90s. He’s not a top 100 ranked prospect. He’s replaceable. Both are a ways from the majors and the Angels want to win now in order to show Ohtani and themselves that they can. This is a very good move and I hope they don’t stop. Add another reliever and Bellinger.
padresfan111323
Wow what a turn of events- they hang up the calls on Ohtani and then get arguably the top arm available
mlb fan
Perry Minasian is not the problem; when he’s given clear marching orders, he produces results. Arte Moreno has always been the main problem in Anaheim.
aragon
No, he hardly ever does.
carllafong
He stole Moniak and O’Hoppe. Silseth is the first pitcher from his draft to be playing. Same for Neto. He nabbed Moustakis who has done nothing but produce– and the same for Escobar. The Drury signing has turned out to be one of the best. He did not sign Rendon or select Walsh. He did steal Urshella in a trade, who played well. He bridged right field gap with Renfroe for very little. He signed Estevez ,who has done nothing but perform well, and the same with Moore. Perry has made very few missteps. Not sure what more you would like Minnassian to have done?
James123
that is the thing- the Angels have been a mess for so long that it takes a lot to fix
myaccount2
I would love to talk to the people who are arguing that Giolito is the top arm on the market.
mattv
Who is better?
myaccount2
Stroman and E-Rod are both much better. I’d rather have Scherzer or Verlander if they move, too.
niched
They should definitely trade for one of Scherzer and Verlander since they probably won’t cost too much in prospects (but in $ for sure). Of course both have full no trade clauses (I think), so they’d have to be convinced the Angels are for real.
DarkSide830
Maybe it’s just me but I’d take Monty as well.
myaccount2
I’d also rather have Monty.
mlb fan
“I’d rather have Scherzer or Verlander” When’s the last time either Verlander or Max were good in a playoff game?…An extremely important game?…Max couldn’t even take the ball 2+ yrs ago in LA’s most important game of the year and realistically, the Astros won the WS in spite of Verlander, not because of him. Not to mention Max was a BIG reason the Braves caught the Mets last year and Max and Verlander have both been booed more this year, than at any other times in their careers. The names are the same, but both Max & Justin are not the same pitchers.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Stroman is only this good on a team that has elite infield defense (like the Cubbies!)
E-Rod of course is better but there’s some complications with whether he opts out this year or doesn’t opt-out. I imagine that’ll scare off a lot of teams.
Scherzer and Verlander are older and have injury concerns that a team like the Angels just can’t afford right now.
So I don’t know if Giolito is the top arm available, but he was definitely the top arm available for this current Angels team.
mattv
Ah, so the better guys on the market are guys who aren’t actually on the market. Got it.
niched
Scherzer or Verlander are not ideal but after the White Sox trade do the Angels have anyone else they can deal for anyone better? It’ll be interesting to see how much more they can do.
bkbk
Lol, just like the mets
jbryant0693
Doubt Stroman will be available. Cubs might even be buyers now.
myaccount2
@mattv- Why would E-Rod not be on the market with his ensuing opt out? Why would Stroman not be on the market without an extension? Why would Monty not be on the market while expiring? Sure, you can argue Scherzer and Verlander and I could agree it’s 50/50, but if you think the other three aren’t certainly on the market, I think you’re crazy.
myaccount2
@mlb fan- They need to worry about getting to the playoffs before they worry about which pitcher will win them a playoff game. Don’t forget Giolito was awful in his last playoff performance, as well. He went something like 4 IP with 4 ER and a ridiculous number of BB.
myaccount2
@mattv- You were saying??
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Available (no Snell, Hader, or Ohtani) and Scherzer/Verlander are just 2 who are in that ballpark and may not even be moved. Montgomery maybe?
myaccount2
I suppose we don’t know for sure that any player will be moved until they actually are, but if the claim is “arguably the top arm available,” I think we have to look at each arm that *may* be available. I would rather have Montgomery if he’s available, as well, but if Verlander and Scherzer are available, they also beat out Giolito for me (and the aforementioned Stroman and E-Rod). Giolito’s peripherals are rough and his current numbers aren’t even all that impressive. He’s a #3/#4 to me.
Rexhudler86
I would argue that 2 top 100 players was steep, I’m sure they had other teams in on him, and the angels had to increase the offer.
carllafong
Who are the top arms on the market? Giolito, Stroman, Snell, Scherzer, Verlander? Do we know Snell is definitely on the market? Same with Scherzer and Verlander? To me, Giolito and Stroman are right there together. If the others come available, okay, but I’m not sure the Mets will move either of their stars and San Diego will be waving the white flag to their fans if they trade Snell– which makes that move dubious. So, that would make Giolito the top arm, or one of the top arms available– right?
Dogbone
Giolito is certainly capable of throwing an occasional decent game. But after watching him now for a few years, he isn’t anyone who you can count on to deliver the goods on any consistent basis. He’s not a number 1 or 2 guy in a rotation.
carllafong
Give me a break. Giolito is a quality starter with the ability to have big games… what is this bologna? He’s the second best pitcher on the ANgels now, so that means that team got better, right? And he played on a bad team. Bad offense and bad defense. He’s going to a much better team and to a pitching friendly ballpark– I promise you the Angel players are happy he’s coming.
Dogbone
@carl. Good luck Carl. I’d like to see the Angels do ok. Giolito might very well be the 2nd best on your staff – for your sake, hopefully he’s 3 or 4th best.
myaccount2
@carllafong- Giolito had a below average season last year in both basic stats and metrics and this year carries a 4.43 FIP with a similar xFIP along with sub-38th percentile hard hit rates, barrel rates, xBA, xSLG, xERA, etc. He’s only been good at home and is now moving to a more hitter-friendly location based on park factors (albeit not a huge one). He’s a #3/#4.
Stat_head
Most pitchers in the league would be the 2nd best pitcher on the Angels. Not exactly a high bar after Ohtani.
mikevm3
7 years later and somehow these two are in the same trade yet again
jdgoat
Where’s Dane Dunning when you need him?
isolatedpower
I think I just faced him in MLB the show. I think he’s in Texas.
Curvesarebetter
Texas
28rings
They traded Dunning for Lance Lynn… who might also be traded this year… so basically Adam Eaton got them Quero & Bush and even more to come… it’s the gift that keeps on giving.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
This is why I read the MLBTR comments. Because occasionally, I’ll find gold like this. Well done!
ocsportsgeek
Holy hell.
BombFlorida
Dang. Somebody wants to keep their job.
BombFlorida
Actually solid move sending Ky Bush. That mustache strongly suggests a registry placement in his future.
avenger65
Not Hahn, apparently. But I am happy that Gio went to Anaheim. I’m pulling for the Angels, O’s and Dbacks to make the PO. The Angels got a good one.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Good pickup by Hahn- win/win!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I think they overpaid for him. Then again I know nothing about the players going back.
aragon
angels system ranks 27th to 30th. it cannot be an overpay.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
According to mlb.com they’re 2 and 3 on their top 30.
padam
He’s referring to overall as a team. Two and three in the angels is like 20 and 25 on others.
orange2001
@padam – Quero was ranked #65 (top 100 prospect). The fact that there are only 30 MLB teams would let you know that he’d be ranked #2 or #3 prospect on any given team. He was the Angels #2 rated prospect.
YourDreamGM
It’s a over pay compared to past years but might not be as much as it seems when we see more trades.
filihok
More comments should be this honest
rct
Take a look at their B-ref pages. Quero was a pre-season top 100 prospect, but might have taken a slight step back this year. Still only at AA, probably wouldn’t be ready until 2025, and a lot can happen to a catching prospect in a couple of years. I’m not sure how highly touted Ky Bush has ever been, but his numbers this year are pretty bad. Maybe he pans out, but if I’m an Angels fan I’m not losing any sleep over trading him away.
Very Barry
White Sox are thrilled to get Quero. Quero already knows a bunch of guys in the organization because the White Sox specialize in Cuban-born players. Robert, Moncada, Grandahl, Aubreu, Colas
carllafong
Then why comment?
raysfan03
W trade for the angels
dodgersfan445
Angels are delusional. No way they can overcome Houston and all the AL east teams. They’re gonna lose ohtani for nothing and be irrelevant for the next 5 years. Mike trout will go down as the most wasted player in history
dannycore
They’re not even for sure better than the rangers or mariners after this trade either, wild times
mgomrjsurf
Same with Gilitio is don’t resign him.
orange2001
You sound jelly.
myaccount2
@orange- they’re jelly of another team acquiring a #4 stater and a below average relief pitcher while giving away two of their top three prospects? Ok
toptimrubies
Sorry but in no world is Lucas Giolito a #4 starter. He would be an upgrade for basically every contending team. This is a big improvement for an already solid rotation.
myaccount2
Okay, fine. He’s a #3 then, but he’s certainly not worth giving up two of an org’s top 3 prospects, no matter how bad that said farm system is (particularly as a rental).
First off, his basic stats are not all that impressive. A 3.79 ERA with 3.1 BB/9 is not super inspiring, even with his above 9 K/9. But when we step back and examine how he got to those numbers, it’s even worse: 4.46 FIP, 4.43 xFIP. About in line with a #3 or #4 starter on a contender. Then we can look at his statcast numbers: 26th percentile in xSLG and 22nd percentile in barrel rate. 30th percentile in hard hit percentage, 38th in average exit velo, 35th percentile in xERA (!!!).
Those numbers are not super promising and suggest regression. Dude is also already a walking L on the road (5.25 ERA) and now has to transition to a new setting for a home field that is actually a bit more hitter-friendly than his previous stop when all his success this season has come at home. All this after already having a bad season last year doesn’t inspire confidence that he’s the guy he once was. I would not have wanted my team to give up anything of value for this guy and I don’t think he is a true upgrade over any of the pitchers in that rotation.
Samuel
myaccount2;
Stats tell the story, huh?
Look, I don’t think the guy’s a great pitcher. But he will be pumped to get off the White Sox (who wouldn’t?) and back to SoCal (in spite of the fact that LA county and Orange county are hardly a short ride apart and are quite a bit different….but they’re much closer in life style than Chicago and SoCal).
As for Angels Stadium being much more of a hitters park – where do you get that from? Guaranteed Rate Field has always been a hitters park.
There’s only 2 months of the season left. You or I writing posts on a chatroom board will have no affect on how the MLB season plays out. …and the trading deadline is hardly over.
kargus
This move also bumps young Silseth into the pen as a swing man / potentially high leverage guy. He made some tweaks to his slider speed while down in AAA and came back looking filthy. Solid move.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Samuel- The guy who likes the sound of his own voice then whines about message board posters
myaccount2
@Samuel- Look up park factors. Angel Stadium is 9th this season, Guaranteed Rate is 15th. It’s not a huge difference but Angel Stadium plays better for XBH this season.
dodgersfan445
I would’ve liked giolito let alone ohtani, but no way they just gave up two top 3 prospects for rentals. I feel bad for trout
Bart
dodgerfan is a troll. Read his comments in Angels threads. Quero is only 20 and is a few years away. The Angels dont need him they have O’Hoppe. Bush is a crapshoot. The Angels bolstered their MLB roster.
myaccount2
@Bart- You don’t just give away a top prospect because he’s currently blocked unless he’s big league ready. Like you said, Quero is only 20 and a few years away, so it makes less sense to move him since we don’t actually know who O’Hoppe is and he could easily wash out. Plenty of guys have been promoted and looked inspiring only to fade over the next couple of seasons. Maybe O’Hoppe will be DFAd by 2026 when Quero looks like a budding superstar.
Bart
Quero likely wont stick at C because he is poor defensively. The Angels got a starter who will be vital down the stretch and if they make the playoffs can hold his own. They also got needed BP help. This is a great trade and it betters the MLB team.
kargus
Or maybe not. Plenty of prospects have also came up producing and remained that way their whole career. O’Hoppe especially looks the part as predicted by anyone with eyeballs who has seen him play. You sound like a complete pessimist and hater. You probably complain that the ice is too cold in the drinks at parties too.
Samuel
myaccount2;
Have you seen O’Hoppe play? I have. Quite a bit. He’s not Rushman, but he’s close. Handles a staff and runs a game like a veteran. Hits as well.
The Angels gave up a lot for him for a reason. If Realmuto wasn’t blocking him there’s no way Dombrowski would have traded him.
Apparently you don’t like the Angels. We get it. But the crap you’re writing is childish and has nothing at all to do with reality.
BaseballisLife
Neither Quero nor Bush are top 100 prospects
mlb.com/prospects/top100/
Its not much to give up.
BaseballisLife
Quero is not a top prospect
mlb.com/prospects/top100/
carllafong
What is your IQ Dodger fan? Only one player is a top 100 player. They have a young catcher. You will most likely see the Dodgers trade one of their catching prospects too– they have a good catcher who isn’t going anywhere. Neither prospect impacts the current roster or the team’s future. Sober up.
Idioms for Idiots
@BaseballisLife
Apparently you didn’t scroll down far enough. Quero is #65 on that list.
DUDDUS
Rigggggght but not likely.
ChiSoxPain
#65 is top 100, last I checked.
myaccount2
Samuel: Me disagreeing does not make my comments “childish” or “nothing at all to do with reality” just because you only want to look at the optimists’ side.
O’Hoppe has had 59 PA this season. That’s a fact. That’s hardly enough to make an accurate or real assessment. You act like it isn’t completely usual that big league pitching adjusts to a hot hitting rookie.
myaccount2
I am a complete pessimist about this trade because it’s not a good trade, so yes, I’m arguing the pessimistic side and stating every reason I think this trade sucks. And actually, you’re right, I hate ice.
Melchez17
Quero is 65th.
BaseballisLife
Was sorting for Angels. I stand corrected. Still not much to give up for two MLB players.
People really need to get a grip when it comes to prospects. Just 1 in 5 top 100 prospects ever becomes even league average. 1 in 5.
If your team has a shot at a playoff spot they should go for the proven commodity 100% of the time.
BaseballisLife
Its not a good trade … for the White Sox.
orange2001
Quero is indeed a top 100 prospect. #65
mlb.com/prospects/top100/edgar-quero-700337
i like al conin
All they have to do is make the playoffs and Ohtani can single-handedly lead them in short series. And they don’t need Quero with O’Hoppe. And they are basically acquiring Trout and O’Hoppe at the deadline too. Delusional? Uh, winning!
kargus
+Brandon Drury is back soon too. We wont even mention Rendon because well you know.
Rexhudler86
Rendon will comeback and be out the rest of the season with a hangnail or suspended for grabbing a fan again
kargus
Both more likely than him making meaningful contributions.
HaloMonty
You could have used Lucas too…Hahahaha! Dodger tears taste the best
i like al conin
Haha so good HaloMonty!
amk1920
Oh no, the Dodgers didn’t trade their top catching prospect for a rental like a desperate GM
implant
Actually they kinda did when the dealt Ruiz and Gray for 2 months of Max and 1 year of Trea
Bart
amk The Nationals would disagree with you.
myaccount2
Well like you just said it was a rental + 1.5 years of Trea Turner. So that’s not the same.
implant
Close. They knew they would never have signed trea
kargus
7+ years of team control between O’Hoppe / Thaiss at C.
– ..283/.339/.547
.- 241 /.353/.364
Definitely a desperate GM tho and its been a good look for Perry. He’s quietly done major work on MLB and minor league depth to even make this moment possible both from a farm talent and MLB comp perspective Angels + 18 games from last year despite injuries to
– Trout
– O’Hoppe
– Drury
– Urshella
– Rendon (inevitable)
BaseballisLife
mlb.com/prospects/top100/
Quero is not a top prospect.
carllafong
No, but they were trying too. And the ANgels top catching prospect is four or five weeks away from resuming his career behind the plate. Quero is only 20 and is hitting .240 with 2 homers– the Angels will be fine.
Plugnplay
Baseballislife, one GM’s 50th ranked prospect, is another’s GM’s 250th prospect. Get over it!
DUDDUS
Got em
amk1920
Trea Turner got a full season and netted them a comp pick
BaseballisLife
I stand corrected. He is 65th.
BaseballisLife
Plugnplay, pull your head out.
Rexhudler86
He’s number 65 on the link you posted
Melchez17
Dodger tears taste the best
Try Yankee tears… Yum.
Melchez17
But… but… but… The AL East is the Roughest, Toughest, Most Masculine division in baseball. How can a 3rd place team in the west even be considered a potential playoff team?
Biggie22
Don’t have a dog in the fight…. But to be fair aside from a * shortened Covid championship the Dodgers have kinda of waisted a fair amount superstar talent as well over the last 2 decades…
ElysianPark
Yeah,the other 29 teams in 2020 refused to play because winning would have meant nothing.
Oh, wait, that didn’t happen.
Biggie22
No…. but quite a few players did…. If you look up the season in most historical references it literally has an asterisk because it was significantly shortened due to the Covid pandemic….
implant
Sorry but it will always be a short season championship. Shane that’s all ya got 1988 was sooo long ago
toptimrubies
Where is there literally an asterisk?
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
A number of players decided not to play. There was no minor league season. There was two months of exhibition baseball with no fans & playing in oddball locations. It was a sham trophy , throw it away. How could anyone be proud of that??
toptimrubies
which players? Buster Posey, David Price and… Ian Desmond?
implant
Clearly in your head since it seems to trigger Dodger fans when brought up. You can call it what you want but the fact remains it is a short season championship.
implant
Desperate Dodger fans. Dodger fans who have seemed their teams flame out year after year after year. That’s who
implant
Baseball is played over a 6 month season for a reason. Attrition sets in. Dog days of summer type of thing. The Dodgers have the weapons to dominate over two plus months (they have proven they sometimes if it is a 6 month season) which they did. And they proved that they were the best team left standing at the end of 2020. But it’s more like they won an end of a short season tournament then a real WS
cwizzy6
Not that it matters, but also Lorenzo Cain.
Omarj
NY has injury issues and Boston has been inconsistent. Toronto holds a slight lead and Angels have guys coming back from IL soon. Injuries bad management and they’re still in it. Add all these pieces, and they have a good chance to make a move in th3 standings. It’s not crazy. Maybe you’re slighted because Ohtani isn’t a Dodger.
avenger65
Angels fans have been whining about Moreno not being serious about winning, they’ll never make the PO, they’ll lose Ohtani and on and on and on. Well, you just got our best pitcher, who is one of the best pitchers in the league whose W/L record would be better if he didn’t have lousy defense and a crap bullpen behind him, and a relief pitcher who can throw over 100 mph. Stop whining because you’re going to be very happy very soon.
rottenboyfriend
U R pissed that Ohtani will make the playoffs and resign with the Angels!
implant
Spoken like a bitter Dodger fan that just lost out on Lucas. 1988 seems like so long ago #2002201020122014
agentx
Yyet they are closer now to an expanded playoffs format than they may have been again within the next 3-5 years with the bag of magic bean prospects so many commenters assumed a half dozen teams would have given up for Ohtani.
If you have one of the most phenomenal players in recent baseball history and a shot to overtake flawed Red Sox, Yankees, and a blue Jays teams, I say you push your chips into the middle of the table and bet on your current roster’s potential.
implant
Problem with that is as a long time Angel fan it’s pretty clear that they lack in the player development department so it’s a crap shoot with any prospect they get. If Shohei is leaving I’d rather watch him in a Halo uni these last two months
Bart
What a dumb comment. Neto, Detmers, Silseth, Canning and many more disagree with you.
implant
As an Angel fan i despise the Dodgers but if pitchers like Detmers and Canning came up through their system they would be better and more consistent. For every Neto I can name three players that didn’t see their potential. Guys like Heaney and Adell come to mind. And there are plenty more. Moreno would rather sink his money into shiny stars like Albert and Rendon when he should be investing heavily into his minor league sytrm and real player development. Their scouts are decent, they can spot talented players. But our development of those players is lacking. There is a reason that their farm system is constantly ranked near the bottom.
Rexhudler86
Heaney was a marlin
toptimrubies
implant, as a Dodger fan I would like to see the Angels succeed. Moreno is a pox but Trout & Ohtani, along with other good players on that roster deserve a shot. Baseball is better when you can be objective about it and trolling other fans is an immature waste of time.
Hopefully someday you can celebrate the good things about all MLB players and teams.
kargus
Moniak, Neto , O’Hoppe and several of the young arms kind of making the development issues seem like a thing of the past.
toptimrubies
Moniak is not really an Angels development success. He had already lost rookie status prior to joining the Angels and then spent about 50 games in their system.
No doubt he has been impressive but the numbers under the hood indicate that regression is due. Fantastic trade for the Angels though.
kargus
Who cares about his rookie status. He literally was useless and on his way out of the league in the Phils org. He got in the Angels system they tweaked his load and got him way more into his hips to take advantage of his elite barrel to ball skills. Shorter path through the zone now. His numbers are beyond sustainable as he still has awful strike zone management. He should improve on pitch selection as he matures. If the ball is in the zone he is crushing it. #1 overall for a reason.
toptimrubies
If you truly think Moniak’s numbers are “beyond sustainable” then I’m afraid you are in for some disappointment. 30.8% K rate, 2.7% BB rate and a .439 BABIP. Fangraphs had a good writeup on him recently.
Maybe it was a typo and you meant beyond unsustainable?
rottenboyfriend
Get Trout, Rendon and Deury back and our pitching just got way better! Lineup competes with the best teams out there! Neto, Trout, Ohtani, Moustakas, Drury, Moniak, Rendon, Ward and Thaiss!
YourDreamGM
They have almost a week to make more moves. They could turn themselves into a favorite by then.
Samuel
“Angels are delusional. No way they can overcome Houston and all the AL east teams.:
dodgersfan445;
Hardly.
They’re 4 games behind in the WC race and it’s not August 1.
RyÅnWKrol
I’ve heard that same comment so many times for so many years about so many teams that were in the same spot at the trade deadline, and went on a run. There is a reason teams add players.
RyÅnWKrol
That narrative is over. Angels have more depth than they’ve had in over a decade. None of the teams in the WC race are solid from top to bottom to be a shoe in.
iverbure
Dodgersfan I agree that I don’t think the angels are going to make the playoffs with the current roster.
With that said they’re in a terrible position all around. Team wise, and PR wise. If not making the playoffs more than once with Trout wasn’t bad enough, you added a yet another generational player that fits that lofty criteria even better than Trout and they still couldn’t make the playoffs.
Everything that I seen in baseball and have learned about suggests that the angels should blow it up giving their mediocrity but for Moreno that seems like a PR nightmare. One that could potentially lose him quite a bit of money if angel fans stop buying tickets with the outrage of losing Ohtani.
Now they still might lose Ohtani but you can at least go down swinging and saying hey we attempted to make the playoffs and resign him.
It’s an enormous risk one that I personally would be adverse to taking but I can see why it was made and I’m not surprised.
Angels are the perfect example of being in the middle of baseball mediocrity and it’s the worst place to be. Those teams that are always trying to win while never fully committing to a rebuild always seem to flounder.
kargus
Most people like yourself conveniently forget that The 1st 3 years of Ohtani had some growing pains. 2018 was a good year but just a glimpse of the guy we see now. The next 2 years were rough. Tommy John. No pitching for 2 full years.. Lots of doubters. Talking heads saying he should either ditch pitching or hitting and some clowns even declaring Sho a bust. The Angels had his back throughout. His loyalty and him knowing the full arch of his development along with this potential playoff push are what will keep him in a Halo.
iverbure
Im not forgetting anything. I have an incredible memory actually.
As good as Ohtani has been having him the roster with the way he had to be manage was certainly one of the reasons the angels struggled. It’s why I never thought he was going to get traded. It’s too complicated for a team to manage and put out the prospect capital. Manage your team around him.
While looking from the outside you bring up a good point in theory that yes on just about every other team Ohtani might not have got the opportunity to be this unique unicorn, but player’s loyalty only goes so far when a team like the giants or dodgers puts a bag down containing over half a billion.
Like I said it was a terrible situation to be in and it always seemed like Moreno was going to favour this scenario as unlikely as I think it’s going to be for the angels to make the playoffs without a healthy Trout.
From the sport’s perspective as a whole I’m cheering for the angels to make some noise. It would be a great story I just wouldn’t bet on that outcome. If you feel like it likely you should probably bet on them making the playoffs. It’s gotta be plus money, probably not as much as it was just 12 hours ago but still a good payday.
kargus
Trout took swings yesterday so return is imminent. The version of Trouty that comes back is the key. He’s been streaky this year. If we get non obscene K rate Trouty more consistently coupled with Drury return and O’Hoppe after that offense is legit (already top 5 ) and yea the odds look really tempting.
carllafong
The Angels are better than the Yankees and the Red Sox and Toronto. They lost 8 of 9 starters, but a lot are coming back– including their young stud catcher– O’Hoppe. They are exactly 2.5 games behind the Yankees and are playing Toronto starting Friday– 4 games back. Plenty of time to catch them.
iverbure
Not sure how anyone could definitively say the angels, Yankees, Redsox or bluejays are better than any of the other 3 teams in the group. All seem to be flawed. The Blue jays haven’t even had a noteworthy win streak. Looking like they try to lose some games and are still in a WC spot and almost certainly are going to make a significant trade. Yankees are the Yankees I’d expect a couple big additions from them. Redsox are playing the best out of the 4.
davemlaw
Angels are in it to win it
hiflew
They are currently in 9th place in the AL and have to jump over the Jays, Red Sox, and Yankees in order to even make the playoffs. I just don’t see it happening.
It could happen and I do like to see a team not give up even though they appear to be on the outside looking in. But not giving up and mortgaging the future on the unlikely chance of making it is two different things.
agentx
What makes the Red Sox and Yankees significantly more likely to prevail in the WC chase than the Angels?
What problems are those teams and the Blue Jays likely to solve over the next 4-6 weeks to make them definitive favorites over am Angels team that may have just beat all three to the best answer for each of those teams’ starting rotation woes?
HighOnPineTar
The Red Sox have the best record and best offense in baseball the last month, with 4 of their best arms + Story coming back in the next few weeks. They’ve been dominating despite currently having a 3-man rotation of just Bello, Paxton, and Crawford… It’s soon about to become a competition for the 4th and 5th spots and that doesn’t include any SP they may trade for.
They Low-key are also the only team in baseball with 6 qualified hitters with an OPS over .800 this season, yup better than the Braves. Duran has become a borderline superstar, Yoshida leading the AL in Batting and most multi-hit games, Casas has the highest OPS in July in baseball, Turner has the most RBI since June 1st.. yes more than Ohtani even. That Devers kid is pretty good too.
The Angels revolve entirely around Ohtani without Trout. And both healthy at the same time have still yet to make the playoffs.
hiflew
None of them are necessarily specifically going to be better than the Angels, but the Angels have to pass ALL THREE. That is not going to be easy.
Oldhalo
Yep, Boston is playing well, and Toronto seemed to play well against the Dodgers. Tampa is sliding quickly as are the Yankees. I suppose we just don’t know how this will play out. There is still too much time and games in front of us to answer that. But the Angels got a little bit better today, and should continue to improve as the pieces return. I can honestly say that I don’t know what will happen but I am hopeful…. And that is more than what I could say about three weeks ago. I actually thought that we would continue to slide but instead have found ways to win despite ourselves and our player injuries.. Change is in the air.
kargus
Its not a jump over…. more like a long stride. A few games back with 60+ to play. You act like its mid September already.
hiflew
It’s not that it is hard to pick up a few games on one team now. But it is hard to pick up games on THREE teams. Against one team, you could sweep them in a series and pick up 3-4 games. But against three with that same sweep, you could leapfrog the team you beat and possibly not even pick up a game on the other two depending on their outcome.
It is also much easier to lose ground. If you lose a game, there is approximately a 50-50 chance you won’t lose any ground against one team. But against three opponents, the chance of losing ground after a loss is much greater.
The Angels are not THAT great after this move. They are not likely to go on a 12 game winning streak or something. And they don’t have much farm system ammo left to pick up a lot more. It will just be difficult to pick up enough games to leap all three with this team.
Biggie22
Wow good for them…
showmebb
The smart thing to do would have been to trade Ohtani. But it’s nice to see a team trying to win so kudos to the Angels.
mgomrjsurf
Still can if some how lose up intill Deadline is and at least on 1st and at 6pm but midnight would be better abd no Games on day.
avenger65
Huh?
hiflew
It is highly possible that they simply didn’t like the offers they were getting for Ohtani. Speculation on here was always high, but it is possible that actual offers were nowhere near as high.
agentx
The Braves may have scored a similarly mythic haul for Freeman in any of the three years they lost 90 or more games with him on the roster, but would that have won them a World Series sooner?
I admire this push to capitalize on Ohtani’s final year under contract *and* on a late-prime Trout year *and* on the makings of the first young team in that Arte has allowed a capable, real-life GM build in over a decade.
Wheeler Dealer
Congrats to the Angels on a total Baller move
DanUgglasRing
It’s starting
ericl
Risky move for the Angels. They’re making these moves, but could still very easily miss the playoffs. Even with GIolito & Lopez, the Angels aren’t as good as the Rays, Astros or Blue Jays and they have to catch at least one of those 3 to make the playoffs, not to mention that they also have to jump the Red Sox & Yankees. They are going all in because of Ohtani, but that could be a bad decision if the long run if Ohtani leaves in the offseason & they don’t have their top prospects.
angelsfan4life
They same Rays who are 31-34 in their last 65 games? Astros will be in first, by the trade deadline. The Rangers pitching is worse than the Angels. The Angels don’t need to leap frog 6 teams, like everyone seems to think. They need to leap frog 3. By the way, the Angels right now, hold tie breakers over, Boston, Yankees, Rangers, and Mariners. The Angels just improved their starting staff and bullpen.
ericl
If the Angels lose the series to the Blue Jays this weekend, they’ll be at least 5 games out of the wild card. The Angels have had an easy schedule the past week or so. The schedule gets a lot tougher now. They have Toronto, Atlanta, Seattle, San Francisco, Houston, Texas, Tampa Bay & Cincinnati in their next 8 series.. They could very easily be out of the playoff hunt when that stretch ends.
Samuel
ericl;
If the Angels win the series this weekend where will they be?
If if’s and but’s were candy and nuts…..we’d all have a Merry Christmas.
ericl
Believe what you want, but the Angels have been beating bad teams. We’ll see how good they really are in their next 8 series. I say they lose five or six of those series.
tommygun1971
Not to mention Seattle and Cleveland close behind them…
HighOnPineTar
Red Sox have the best record and best offense in baseball the last month. They likely won’t take the division by now of course, but they could very well still be the best team in the AL East for the remainder of the season. A lot of guys coming back healthy in the next few weeks, plus whatever they add the next few days. They also have a very favorable schedule in August, wheras Angels have one of the toughest.
This is looking like a disaster deadline decision for the Angels franchise as a whole.
orange2001
@ericl – the Angels are only 3 games behind Toronto. They have swept series vs NYY and BOS. They took 3 of 4 vs Texas on the road. They recently went toe-to-toe with Houston on a rollercoast series that could have gone either way. Tampa has been mediocre for over a month. The bottom line, there is no clear-cut favorite in the AL, and the Angels are a good team that has the ability of beating anyone in a short series.
bmp010
Please make the playoffs.
Welp
Like if this increases their playoff odds to over 30%
King Floch
I did not like this post.
trout27
It looks like the Angels are going all in for a run at the last WC spot. If they don’t make it they will be the 2024 version of the Tigers. They have very little talent in the organization and have shown no ability to develop their prospects. Typical Arte move.
i like al conin
No way. They don’t need Quero with O’Hoppe and if they don’t re-sign Ohtani they have his $30 mil salary this year to compete. Little downside to today.
Troutahni
DON’T forget that Matty Thaiss has been very good this season and he gives them depth at the catcher position. Defense has improved during the season. Thaiss has been valuable player for the Halos this season.
CursedRangers
They’ve been on a nice run recently. However their schedule is about to get tough. Gutsy move. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. To your point, if they miss the playoffs the Angels could be in a big time tough spot for the next few years.
agentx
I agree this is risky, though your assessment of the admittedly lower-level prospect dominated Angels system may be a touch outdated.
Bart
trout what a moronic comment. No talent you say? O’Hoppe. Neto, Moniak, Detmers, Silseth are all great young players.
implant
As an Angel fan I hate to go after our own but Silseth, owner of a plus 5.00 ML Era is Harley a great player
frugalfarhan
Minor league stats don’t mean anything but both of these guys going back to the Sox look average at best. Makes me wonder how another team couldn’t come up with a better offer seeing as SP’s are in high demand and Giolito is pretty good. Giants could have used his services but Farhan was too busy hammering out that blockbuster deal to dump Llovera for a can of Skoal
thegiantshark
This is the equivalent of Wisenhunt and Ramos and was a hefty overpay. I’m very glad Farhan did not make this move.
Troutahni
Query is a top prospect. Would you prefer to continue rolling the dice with Grandall and Zavala? Quero might make the White Sox out of sporting training similar to Gabriel Moreno with the Diamondbacks this season, especially if Grandall and Zapvala is his primary competition.
rct
“Quero might make the White Sox out of sporting training”
No, he won’t. He’s a 20 year old who is struggling a bit (.332 slugging, .717 OPS) in 69 games at AA. With luck, he’ll join the Sox at the tail end of next year, but likely won’t be ready until 2025.
YourDreamGM
Depends what stats you look at. Batting average ops era then sure. I like the bat better. But a lefty starter always has value.
AL B DAMNED
Seems like the Angels will go all in to try and to make the playoffs, that just MAY keep Ohtani in Anaheim! Will they pursue Arenado next? Anyway you look at it, the Angels pulled a stunner and shook up the trade market!!
HighOnPineTar
This deal moves the needle from them likely finishing 10gb of the final WC spot to maybe 6gb imho…
They’re willing to lose the best superstar player in baseball for a worthless comp pick, when just yesterday it was apparent there was going to be a record haul bidding war for his rental services.
These wasted non-trades of stars about to test FA can set franchises back a lot more than a terrible contract does.
Samuel
ABraves23;
I see a the possibility that the Cardinals dump Arenado and his salary to free up 3B for Walker and Gorman – plus save the salary. But I see that after the season is over.
Arenado was raised in Newport Beach. Playing for the Angels would allow him to go home.
How to work out a trade would be the issue, but the Angels have starting pitchers.
iverbure
That’s what the angels need. Another expensive declining 3b, with many years left on his contract.
PinstripedPride
Whoa, the Angels got serious! Clearly they’re keeping Ohtani and making a run for it. Best of luck to them. They definitely got better today
mlbnyyfan
That’s all the Sox got. No other team could of offered more. Not a good move for the Sox. Especially with several days until end of Deadline.
avenger65
I knew all along that when the Sox’ fire sale began they wouldn’t have the brains to know what to get in return.
HighOnPineTar
Considering there’s 4 days left til the deadline, I definitely think the White Sox could have gotten more.
Samuel
It’s a 2 month rental.
People here thought Ohtani! would bring in a teams 2 top prospects….plus.
LOL
YourDreamGM
Sox did well. Really well.
acoss13
Wow didn’t expect the Angels to make such a bold move. But I’ll take that catching prospect and young arm. Guess the other teams inquiring on Giolito, the Reds, D-Backs, Astros and Blue Jays didn’t offer enticing enough pieces. Lynn is next
Tiger22matt
The Reds would be stupid to give up that kind of value for a rental.
notagain27
Rag on the decision all you want but we won’t know the results of this trade for another two months. If the East continues to beat each other up and Judge doesn’t return, the same comments can be said for the Yankees. This is good for the game.
avenger65
Not if you look at it from the other team’s perspective. We lose our best pitcher for two prospects that won’t have an impact on the team for years, if at all. Reinsdorf has to go, hopefully to a home for the deranged.
YourDreamGM
You can get Gio back in November.
CluHaywood
I’m really not sure what people are expecting here. The Sox just got a top 100 prospect that plays catcher, and is at AA at a young age holding his own, and a 6’6 lefty former 2nd rounder for 2 players that were not only rentals, they had zero chance of coming back to the Sox at all. Sox fans, more than most, over value their players so much. This was a good result for the Sox.
YankeesBleacherCreature
Agreed. This is long overdue for Angels fans and gives them more hope that Ohtani resigns. Maybe Giolito likes it there and inks up too.
Blue Baron
Judge is to be activated Friday. How much of a difference he makes obviously remains to be seen.
nrd1138
Good start, but the Sox still have some work to do to fix their locker room.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Woah!!! Now, both Texas teams have to start taking them seriously.
nottinghamforest13
Cardinals still look like a potential one stop shop for the Rangers. It would be odd if they don’t hook up before the deadline.
Datashark
Those 2 Angels prospects don’t seem like much of a top 3 – their minors stats are not that all appealing.
Angels look like winners here in the short term.
YourDreamGM
Catcher’s stats look good if you are looking at right ones.
iverbure
Most trades nowadays are established player for prospects and salary relief. So yes the acquiring team of said established player is always the short term winner.?
Braves_saints_celts
I honestly think the white Sox could have done better. These prospects might have some upside but has anybody seen their minor league stats? They are both not having great years by any means. The white Sox could have at least gotten a prospect close to being major league ready, and what about a 2nd baseman that they’ve been needing for years? Could have at least got an infield prospect. I say the angels won this one, can somebody please tell me how this is good for the white Sox, and bad for the angels? I don’t see how in any way shape or form. I’m probably wrong, so yeah somebody please tell me how and why I am wrong!
YankeesBleacherCreature
You’re under the pretense that the White Sox plan to be competitive next season or the following. Quero is 20 and in AA which is quite advanced. They went for high-ceiling prospects and have a good number of MLB holes to fill which is going to take time (and money).
Braves_saints_celts
I never had the pretense that they would be competitive. I knew they were going into a rebuild, and rightfully so. They aren’t a good team by any stretch. I just don’t see this as a good trade because they could have gotten some prospects that more line up with their needs, like I said a second base/ infield prospect.
YourDreamGM
Great for white sox. Quero is advance hitter. Just turned 20 and in AA and more than holding his own. Good odds of sticking at c. Already a win. But they got lefty with a starters mix. Doesn’t look like a front line starter but even back ends have value. You don’t draft or trade for need. You take the best you can get. Only go need in a event of a tie. Doubt anyone else matched this offer.
Braves_saints_celts
He might have a good hit tool, but the stats show the opposite of holding his own. He hasn’t hit for power, and has an ops barely above 700. Yes he might have a high ceiling but he’s still a couple years away from the bigs, and he has to improve his offense to be considered one of the next big catchers, which I see a lot of people clamoring on and on about him being great. I personally don’t see it. Yes he’s only 20 and already on double a. But he has a lot to improve on. There are plenty of 20-21 year olds making the jump and He’s not close. Like I said I am most likely wrong, and the fact a lot of people are so high on him, and the fact that he has a high prospect pedigree shows that he has a good chance of being at least a good starting catcher for years to come. That being said though the white Sox in my opinion could have gotten a better package for giolito alone, but to also include Lopez and only come away with those 2 prospects when they could have gotten a better package including a 2nd base/ infield prospect, it’s a head scratcher to me. Now I hope I’m wrong and I hope these kids turn out to be studs. But they have a lot to work on. Simple as that.
YourDreamGM
Keep expectations in check. Would you trade someone you thought was a future stud catcher for two 2 month rentals? If just a good starting catcher that is a huge win. But he has more power then his ops is showing. And LA can be out developed.
stymeedone
Its a win for CWS because they’re not making the playoffs this year. Giolito is going to want more money than they can afford and was gone in 2 months. Lopez is having a bad year and will be a FA too. A QO to Giolito would only bring back an extra pick, a gamble. This way they get two prospects who are already on the right trajectory, for players they were losing anyway.
CluHaywood
Yup, exactly. Could not have said it better.
Braves_saints_celts
I agree, I do, I have no problem with them trading giolito for these prospects. My whole point about my post was that the white Sox most likely could have gotten a better return form a multitude of contenting teams that needed a starting pitcher and a relief arm. Yes they got some potentially great prospects in return, but they could have done better in my opinion and also gotten a 2nd base/ infield prospect that more aligns with their future needs, a need might I add has been a serious problem for them for years. I don’t mind the trade at all, I never said it was a bad trade, I just said that it was a confusing trade and I’ll stand by that.
CluHaywood
Or, they could have outpaced themselves while contenders went to other options. Could have gone either way. I really am not sure holding out nets them a better haul for these two.
SODOMOJO
Here we go boys!!!!!! It’s getting hot
Moneyballer
The White Sox Fire Sale has officially begun! sir lance-a-lot you’re up next!
SODOMOJO
I think TA is next!
stymeedone
After the way he pitched tonight? Don’t expect much. Even TB is now wondering if he’s fixable.
CluHaywood
This has been Lynn literally all year, and the Sox keep getting calls about him. He has been straight garbage, but his underlying stats say 30 HR allowed this year is a fluke…
Sox will take whatever they can for him.
HalosHeavenJJ
Not happy to see Quero go. Really, he was the one guy on the farm I wanted to keep.
These two are pieces of desperate need. No doubt.
Datashark
They have O’Hoppe already. They didnt need Quero
HalosHeavenJJ
O’Hoppe is hurt.
It takes two catchers minimum to get through a season.
Quero will be a stud. It is never a problem to have two studs at a position. Especially one as demanding as catcher.
This is why the Angels are always out of the playoffs. They hang their hopes on a handful of guys rather than building a deep, steady stream of talent.
cbraves
Would you still complain if Giolito won game 7 of the world series for you?
HighOnPineTar
Angels in the playoffs, let alone Game 7 in the World Series… What American League baseball have you been watching this year?
HalosHeavenJJ
Oh, I’m on the edge of my seat every game this year. We’re playing meaningful games and likely for the opportunity to keep the best player on the planet on our team.
The heart is all in.
Even if the brain realizes this trade will likely note us down the road.
HalosHeavenJJ
While I realize the odds are against my squad, if we get into short series baseball with Ohtani and a full strength Trout we could make some noise.
We’ve seen far lesser players like Marco Scutaro or Daniel Murphy get hot and carry a team for a few rounds.
HighOnPineTar
I’ve watched a lot of Angels games this year because of my love for Ohtani. I would never want to see him traded from my home team either, but getting nothing when he very likely will receive an offer that they can’t match would hurt me so much more… Especially with a farm system at the very bottom of the league
Troutahni
Their primary starting catchy is Matt Thaiss who is a better catcher than your team’s starting catcher.
HalosHeavenJJ
I feel that, but….
It is one thing to see him walk away. It’s another to ship him out. At least emotionally.
At least if he does walk away, we can say we did all we could.
agentx
No, I would argue that the reason they have always been out of the playoffs has been Arte’s insistence until recently to make big, unneeded free agency splashes on the offensive side of the ball without spending enough in starting pitching or the bullpen.
This move at least with regards to the rotation is quite different from the Angels’ approach prior to Minasian’s hiring.
HalosHeavenJJ
This year really has been different. Arte wanted Trea Turner. Minasian convinced him to build depth instead.
Really, Minasian has brought in a ton of contributors. In a normal year we’d have been out of it in May.
cbraves
If you make it to the postseason, anything, absolutely anything can happen. 2021 Braves and the 2022 Phillies have proven that. Worst record of all the postseason teams and both were in the WS.. So to make it a joke to think they can’t go to the WS is wrong.
YourDreamGM
I wouldn’t be happy losing Quero. You have backup catcher, dh, ph, injuries and they can play another position.
Mike the Fat Oriole Bird
Chicago Sox officially out, LA Halos way, way in. What are the odds on Cease going?
Joe Kerr
Not good. The Sox would ask for way too much to have it make sense for another club.
King Floch
Extremely low, the White Sox think they can contend next year and, in that division, they might be right.
HighOnPineTar
The other Sox have been linked to both Cease or Lynn. Maybe this Angels trade intensifies offers from Bloom (I won’t hold my breath), but Boston does have an off day tomorrow (Thurs) and I expect the stove could get hot fast
King Floch
Cease isn’t going anywhere, the owner is way up there in years and wants to compete for a WS ASAP. Lynn, OTOH, is pretty much a lock to be traded (despite his poor 2023 numbers).
vaderzim
This is giving me Adam Eaton flashbacks.
IronBallsMcGinty
The return seems a bit light but whatever. The Sox need catching and the kid is Cuban so you know they’re down. The other kids numbers aren’t that great, any opinions on these two?
Blue Baron
What difference does it make that he’s Cuban?
Braves_saints_celts
He wasn’t making it about a race issue and him being cuban, he mentioned it because the Chicago white Sox are one of the most active teams in acquiring and developing cuban born players. At least that’s how I viewed his comment.
Astros Hot Takes
Sox have long been invested in Cubans – NYT has an article from 2021 “How Latino Culture Shaped the Chicago White Sox
Oct 7, 2021 — The White Sox, one of the original American League franchises, have long fostered Latino talent, specifically from Cuba. In the 1950s…..”
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Possible Communist sympathizer?
Dogbone
Quero is still a couple years away. But should be your starting C around 2025, and I really believe a very good one. The kid is 20 and already is in AA ball. And he earned the AA job.
CluHaywood
Dogbone that might be the nicest thing you have ever said about any White Sox player past present or future. Are…you ok?
YourDreamGM
Don’t see how sox could have done better. Really like Quero. Looks like his bat will no doubt as much as no doubt a prospect could be will get him to the show. Think he will catch. Haven’t seen arm enough to have a strong opinion but it’s a lefty and enough talent to start.
urnuts
Nice move trading for a pitcher from SoCal and possible resign to ease the pain of possible lost of Othani this off season. Plus bullpen help!
O’Hoppe is our long term catcher but losing Bush may hurt in the long run, unless Giolito resigns.
Blue Baron
What would Giolito resign from? He’s not Richard Nixon.
If he signs again with the Angels, he would re-sign.
urnuts
haha.
VonPurpleHayes
Wow. Good for them. All in.
Moneyballer
Expensive rental considering they’ll still miss the playoffs.
CluHaywood
That would be such a kick in the pants
Candy Maldonado
Quero has such a high ceiling and it’s really hard to see him go, but with O’Hoppe in the fold now, and Thaiss finally producing and Stassi somewhere on the horizon, it’s understandable to see him as a luxury.
bigalcathey
Honorable for the Angels to go for the gusto, but I’d be real surprised if they advance past the first round in playoffs, if they even get in.
M.C.Homer
Let the heads explode!
Edison
I don’t think they’re rentals. Giolito is from Santa Monica, CA. Angels did this knowing they can resign him. Although it may seem like they’re 2 top prospects, neither would’ve have contributed enough to make angels a playoff team this year or next. Good risk I’d say!
stymeedone
Can they afford him if they sign Ohtani? Or do you mean as a replacement for?
Buddyl51
Yay…… let’s go Angels!!
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
2nd time Giolito and Reynaldo Lopez are being packaged together in a trade. It’s been 7 years but the Nats got absolutely fleeced in the trade.
kma
Yet Eaton was a big part of the Nats World Series win and the Sox will be lucky to win one this decade.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I never would’ve guessed that he was still playing after like 2018.
CluHaywood
And Dunning, who was flipped for Lynn. That trade was brutally lopsided.
Tiger22matt
Yeah if I’m Nick Krall I’m out on messing with trading for pitching. If a rental costs a top 100 prospect then no use in overpaying in the 1st year of contention with young arms being ready soon.
Biggie22
If the Padres would be willing to do a similar type package deal with Snell & Hader, I’d happily give up India (controlled former rookie of the year) & Arroyo (top 50 prospect but blocked by Elly) for a chance to say screw it let’s go for it this year too…
YourDreamGM
If I’m SD I say yes. I don’t value India highly and they don’t need a weak 2b dh but like the Arroyo floor ceiling.
joec 3
Good trade for both teams
YourDreamGM
A for CHI. A advanced hitter who has a good chance to stick at catcher and a lefty starter! They got more than fair value and premium positions. Wouldn’t want to beat that offer. I’d be happy if I was a sox fan.
C for LA. Paid full retail but they know their prospects better than anyone and both aren’t having amazing years stats wise. I am not worried about anything yet but they have more information than I do. I really like them commiting to winning and not waiting till deadline. If you aren’t trading Ohtani then go for it. Heck of a starter and a reliever that can be better than his stats so far. Another win win.
DarkSide830
Inb4 LAA misses the playoffs anyway
King Floch
Certainly a plausible outcome with the Astros still in it despite their mountain of injuries and the AL East reminding everyone why it’s called the AL Beast.
King Floch
Dang, Giolito was probably the best fit for the Orioles among the rental SPs.
stymeedone
So replace him with Lorenzen or Montgomery, or Stroman or E-Rod. Any one could be just as good or better down the stretch.
King Floch
The Cardinals want controllable starting pitching, which the Orioles don’t really have to trade, the Cubs may choose not to sell after their recent hot stretch, and Lorenzen isn’t really much of an upgrade.
E-Rod could fit the bill though and it would be kind of cool to finally see him in an Orioles uniform after we traded him away as a prospect back in 2014.
Sign all the Cubans
Still not a playoff team. Not only will they lose Ohtani with nothing but a comp pick in return, they gave up 2 of their best prospects out of an already bad farm system to add what may be 2 or 3 wins over whatever else they would otherwise be rolling out every 5th day.
“They’re only 4 out of the WC now, so this could make all the difference”, you might say. But that 4 games out is after a 10 game warm stretch where they made up some ground. They’ll regress to the break-even team that they otherwise were, probably winning a few extra games because of the trade. Either way, there’s no way they get to the 90 wins they’re gonna need to grab the last WC spot.
filihok
“there’s no way they get to the 90 wins they’re gonna need to grab the last WC spot.”
Coming back to this post in October.
Love it when people say “no way” instead of “probably won’t” or “I don’t think…”.
brooklyn62
Wow! Didn’t see that deal coming. I picked the wrong SoCal team that would pick up Giolito.The WC race just became a bit more intriguing. Nice move, Angels!
BigGarg
Wow, second and third prospect going to the White Sox for a rental. Angels going all in. Might as well at this point!
Dustyslambchops23
This is going to blow up spectacularly but this is who the angels are, mismanagement got them here so they are going to mismanage to the end.
The idea that they are going to leap ahead of each of the Red Sox, Yankees, and Jays is just a really poor bet. They could be 5,6 by the end of the weekend series with the jays.
kargus
They could also be tied. Its not really a leap but more of like one of those steps you take to get over a puddle. We are talking 4 games with 60+ to play. Is this your first rodeo? Far more adventurous leaps have been made in even less time.
iverbure
It’s just giant risk for a team with low playoff odds.
People can point to whatever examples they want and say remember when the odds makers has this team odds at (insert whatever odds) and they made the playoffs. Congratulations on not understanding probability whatsoever see you at my casino getting mad you lose every time while I smile and take your money quickly so I can go back to watching Tv.
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
tHe AnGeLs R sELl3rZ
aragon
unabomber?
Kershaw's Lesser Known Right Arm
Oh no. I’ve said too much
frankiegxiii
No other team could top that? Looks like the White Sox gave the Angels a humongous discount
Tiger22matt
A top 100 prospect and there number 3 prospect for a rental is an overpay.
south side hit men
Great return for two rental players. And knowing the Sox, they weren’t going to pay down any portion of the contracts to sweeten the return
Samuel
south side hit men;
The Sox administration that’s been in place for over a decade doesn’t have the best record in developing and maintaining young players. They tend to get a few good years out of them – give them long-term contracts, then watch as most regress.
iverbure
In terms of trade value in recent years for rental arms, this is a massive overpay if the catching prospect is as good as his prospect ranking says he is.
aragon
Anyone interested in Tyler Anderson?
FullMontilla
Where Lucas goes, Reynaldo goes – traded together in 2016 to the Sox from the Nationals
filihok
Immediate reaction: Holy crap.
Seems like a pretty big overpay by the Angels and they are depleting a weak minor league system for a ling-shot one-year run.
I hope it works in that they make the World Series and lose to the Dodgers, or, if not that, beat whatever other NL team they play,
Using the MLB Trade Vajue site, the closest comparable trade I could make from the Dodgers’ prospects was something like Daulton Rushing and Maddux Bruns. I wouldn’t have wanted to give that up for Giolito and Lopez.
south side hit men
Absolutely LOVE this return for a couple of rentals. There was no chance Gio would be back. Too bad they couldn’t move Lynn this morning with the Tampa rumors.
But so sad that this is the most exciting thing for the Sox this season.
sufferforsnakes
He’s a really good catching prospect. Tore up the Cal League.
MPrck
I’d say Angel fans should be happy, this trade makes it clear they will keep Ohtani there, whatever the price it is. Who can blame them ? He’s a team of one of a kind. I think maybe that Ohtani has told them he wants to stay there as well. Ohtani fills stadiums, and it’ll probably fill Detroit’s today as well.
Samuel
MPrck;
Ohtani! can play wherever he wants. It’s not a matter of money, he’ll get that.
It’s pretty clear that the Angels people – probably including Arte – sat down with him this past weekend or so to discuss he future. Newport Beach is a wonderful place to live (if one has the money). Ohtani! and his loved ones have been there for 6 years now. I don’t see him wanting to leave.
MPrck
The beaches there are lovely, bar top turtle races in Redondo, saloon/laundromats in Seal, and the malls in Huntington. Then all the taco palaces on the way to big A. I think he’ll stay there too.
stymeedone
I do like how this sets the tone for an E-Rod or Lorenzen trade. Detroit can add on Cisnero or Shreve. Just send along a top prospect or two.
MPrck
Yes, this is shaping up well for Detroit, and after Clark no predicting what will happen.
THEY LIVE!!!
Hallelujah‼️Angels fans rejoice‼️How about an Angels vs Dodgers World Series‼️
THEY LIVE!!!
How about Jo Adell for Dylan Cease❓
filihok
I hope this be a joke
Angels & NL West
Arte likes shiny toys and none shine brighter than Shohei. Arte wants to re-sign Shohei and that only happens if the Angels make a deep playoff run.
This is Perry’s first move, not his last. I suspect, he will continue to go with rentals that cost less in terms of prospects and clear off the books in 2024. Look for more acquisitions to come. And the Angels are getting Drury, Neto, Trout, O’Hoppe and Joyce back sooner than anticipated.
No team will create more buzz in a playoff run than a Shohei led Angels ball club. Arte and Perry are all in to make that happen and re-sign Shohei. Good luck gentlemen.
HaloShane
Just a bad organization in a panty panic over a player that has made it known he is done with them.
Samuel
HaloShane;
What a dumb comment.
If Othani! mad it clear “he was done with them” – they’d have traded him and not traded for rental players.
kargus
Exactly this is quite the opposite. He has been very clear about his desire to win with this team. Beyond that he has said nothing. Anyone pretending like they know his plan is lying to themselves.
johndietz
WE’RE ALL IN!! LOVE IT!!
iverbure
Make sure you remember that if they falter and 2024 looks bleak without Ohtani. You can’t be happy they went for it and failed and say next year they should be better if they lose Ohtani and don’t have a farm.
Jeremy320
Lol, well that pays my rent through 2023 and my sho stay with laa bet is solid lol.
max l
I’m not sure how good these prospects were for the Angels, but if they were anyone really good this is a bad trade on their part. I know they want to prove to Ohtani they can win, and making the playoffs is a big step in that, but if you sell Ohtani for the mansion you can convince him because of our standing and our schedule we are probably more than likely not making the playoffs, so all the players we traded you for will help us not only win in 2024 but in future years too. And speaking of Angels and playoffs, a couple things to consider here:
1) They are already 4 games out of a Wildcard.
2) Trout is probably still a couple weeks away
3) They may have the toughest schedule the rest of the way: 3 series still against the Astros & Rangers (2 of them on the road); 2 series against a Mariners team only a half game behind them; this road trip which takes them to Toronto & Atlanta after this double header in Detroit. Another road trip back East to Queens and Philly; a road trip end of September to Tampa & Minnesota, 3 games at home against San Fran, 6 home games in August vs. Tampa & Cincinnati, and finally a 7 game homestand first week of September against Baltimore and Cleveland. Looking at their remaining games I can see really only 4 or 5 series (out of about 20) that are surefire slam dunks no doubt they win those series. Now obviously they can win more, but the fact remains its not like they have a lot of upcoming games against the dregs of the league, they’ve gotten most of those out of the way, now the varsity portion of the schedule is coming, and despite having mostly a layup line of crappy under .500 teams the last month of the season they still find themselves way out of the playoff picture; 7 & 4 out of the division & wildcard.
I really don’t like their chances at all of making the playoffs this year even with all the injured players returning, and hopefully this trade didn’t completely take them out of the running of an Ohtani reunion.
YourDreamGM
I wouldn’t lose sleep over the arm. Bat looks like a above average regular. I wouldn’t go with all star just yet but he should be a mlb regular. Good news you have a catcher already. Nice to have two and one to replace the other but it does soften the blow a bit. White Sox did really well. But seen plenty worse trades. Angels really paid but understandable.
LetTheGoodTimesROFL
This is good for baseball. Wasn’t that the point of adding extra wild cards? I’m kind of tired of teams annually punting at the trade deadline even of they are a long shot
YourDreamGM
Agree. Angels have been strangers for the playoffs so I like them going for it.
SanDiegoSuperDissapointingPadres
Everyone is soo salty tonight… listen, y’all could be a Padres fan. Preller has been given the keys to the Brinks Truck ready to back it up to the trade deadline so he can spend, spend, spend!
On who? Nobody that can save this hot mess express of a season! Watch for the Padres to be buyers come the 1st. Maybe they can really p/o the Doyers and get Turner and Bellinger.
Samuel
SanDiegoSuperPadres;
3rd in team payroll in 2023, 4th in the NL West.
The fans appear to still be turning out. Will they tune out?
Unfortunately the team has turned into a rich man’s toy – and he has an ego driven delusional psychotic running it for him. The guy can find prospects – I’ll give him that. But he can’t develop them and when he packages them up for veterans those guys regress. Preller is a great farm director. He has no business trying to do any more than that. He’s just lost.
Led Hoyer
The 3 top payroll teams could easily not make the playoffs. Insanity
YourDreamGM
Padres are at the bottom of teams that I think are smart. They handed out some of the worst contracts of all time. Trades are hit and miss. They do well in finding talent for their farm at least.
scruffmcgruff
I hope this kinda turns out to be like watching “Angels In The Outfield’. Would be crazy to see them win the pennant. “It could happen”.
seanocoileain
So next the Sox will package Eloy and Cease in a deal…
BSHH
That is a huge haul for Chicago. Quero might be a few years away and Bush is having a severe down year suddenly, but the Angels parted with substantial talent.
Of course, making the playoffs and doing some damage has to be the Angels’ main goal. But they already improved their pitch toward re-signing Ohtani by showing that they are willing to go for it. Giolito may also be easier to re-sign since he hails from the area. It is a risky move, but they will likely not have such a good roster for quite some time.
Gruß,
BSHH
Paleobros
Wow?
dano62
Wouldn’t be surprised if Angels now flip Renfroe & an arm to Giants or Reds for mid-range prospect to get back under the penalty
iverbure
What?
jvent
As a Mets fan I’ll take Renfroe and Loup for a prospect, not one of our top ones of course lol
Dumpster Divin Theo
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if after all these machinations, Ohtani decides to head to Chicago as a free agent?
Viveleempireevil
Or worse…to Chavez Ravine..
Deleted Userr
That would be very funny. Even if it’s not happening.
ArianaGrandSlam
Probably a bad move unless they win the WS and by simply calculation the possibility is only 1/30 (3.3%). lt means they have 96.7% chance of not winning.
Big Hurt
Such a loser mentality, sorry. If the criteria for trading was “must have probability of winning the WS above 25%, the last week in July would be boring. They are trying to get in the playoffs, and prospects flame out sometimes (i.e. a lot). As a Sox fan, I love this deal, but I’d rather be a buyer with a 3.3% chance of the WS and a farm system where other teams wanted any of our players.
filihok
Your point is correct, even if your process isn’t, completely correct.
Deleted Userr
Couldn’t you say that about any trade for a rental?
This one belongs to the Reds
Reds missed the boat again, just as I expected them to. Built in excuse now that they waited until all their games with the Brewers are done. But at least they still have their dozen shortstops.
giom78
giom78 Your move Jays/Red Soxs and Yankees, the Angeles making a run for final wildcard spot.
Motor City Beach Bum
Good return for two rentals. The Tigers should be able to squeeze out a similar return for their pitchers, especially if they package a starter and reliever together like this too.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
I don’t get the Angels… probably not making the postseason anyway.
That name is already taken
Because YOU say so.
flamingbagofpoop
I get that you’re 12 and take anything that’s said about the angels as a personal attack, but you can go look at post season probabilities to see that it’s not just him that thinks that.
whyhayzee
Hats off to the Angels, even though I’m not wearing a hat. The organization that drafted my nephew and stuck with him through two Tommy John surgeries and more is to be commended for trying. Yes, they’re somewhat inept and snake bit but at least they’re taking a run. That’s all you can ask as a fan. Good luck to them.
SupremeZeus
Fool’s errand. Angel’s aren’t making the playoffs and Ohtani isn’t re-signing in Anaheim. Arte makes the wrong move at every turn.
That name is already taken
Because YOU say so.
flamingbagofpoop
I say so as well. Would be cool to see Trout and Ohtani in the playoffs, but I just don’t see this team overcoming everyone in front of them with the schedule they have.
VirginiaGiant
C’mon Giants, gotta have a starter (although the Angels gave up too much for a rental, imo) one more off the market! Pull the trigger soon…
its_happening
Misguided or not, or incompetent, Angels are trying to win. Can’t hate that.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
The problem is every good hitter in their lineup is injured aside from Ohtani, Moniak (kills righties, but can’t hit lefties at all), Ward (league avg. bat), Moustakas (three true outcomes, contact issues), and Neto (solid, but not a difference maker offensively). Even then most of those guys carry a serious flaw or are literally league average.
When it comes to pitching, their whole staff is Ohtani and a bunch of #4 pitchers. Sandoval and Giolito might flash #3 appearances from time-to-time, but they aren’t going to consistently show up as above-average. The bullpen is a couple slightly above-average relievers (Estevez and Moore), but the rest are replacement level. If Ohtani wasn’t a man among boys, the Angels would’ve flipped their record over the last 10 days.
More importantly, they are emptying their prospect cupboard to keep Ohtani, which guarantees he’s gone after this season. It’s already an indictment of their farm system that Quero and Bush were their top two prospects because even though O’Hoppe is technically #1, I consider him a MLB hitter and without the injury would’ve already lost prospect status. I can’t see Ohtani staying on a team where they have no farm system.
What is even more interesting is the acquisition of Giolito, Lopez, and any further additions all but guarantee the Angels compensation for offering Ohtani the Qualifying Offer will be placed after the 4th round. The Angels are already at the exact limit of the payroll cap prior to this move, so they’ve emptied their prospect cupboards, lost the chance to trade Ohtani, and guaranteed no better than a 5th round pick when he leaves.
The Angels with this move have guaranteed that Trout will never reach the playoffs again in an Angels uniform. There is no way they climb the hill back into contention this season, and the Angels have literally traded their future for some fake magic beans. If there wasn’t already a lot for the AL West opponents to be excited about with this deal, the Angels also took two useful pieces off the table for real contenders to acquire this week.
nathan118
This move guarantees that Trout will never make the playoffs? So you’re saying the two players we gave up are the key to unlocking the playoffs? Get real. We already have a catcher of the future, and there’s no guarantee Ky Bush ever contributes.
cwsOverhaul
WSox desperately need to develop a catcher of the future, so hopefully the “next FO” at conclusion of this season can begin process of getting Quero to sharpen his defensive skills and rapport with/confidence of pitchers…which is far more important than a slow guy drawing walks and having a good OPS “for a catcher”.
RS90
Switch hitting catcher that is currently walking more than striking out. Not bad at all.
Jaysfansince92
Despite being a Jays fan I hope trout comes back soon and they make the playoffs. Angels fans deserve to see that duo together in the playoffs together at least once.
Hopefully the jays can catch Tampa or Baltimore and then the Angels can take the last spot.
dirkbill
No mention of Chase Silseth here, even though some “advice” still has him starting today ♂️
cwsOverhaul
WSox certainly need a catcher of the future. That said, hope the “next” FO can develop Quero’s defensive and game calling skills next couple years without rushing. That is way more critical than landing a projected decent but slow OPS guy that falls into DH category.
msqboxer
CWS organization was without any projectable catching prospect and getting a top 10 helps, that along with adding a potential middle to back of the rotation LH pitcher to go with Crochett and Schultz down the line is helpful..
Robrock30
Going all in to win I love this!
OCBeachFan
Almost every team the Anaheim baseball team plays against for the rest of the season is better than them. They have no chance.
Simm
Angles have set the market for this years deadline. Time for the padres to cash in snell, hader and lugo. Perhaps they can get something for soon to rerun wacha as well.
Heck lugo alone is having a better season than gio. I wouldn’t expect him to bring back as much as gio but they could definitely get something good for him.
Specially with the angles buying instead of selling this very well could be the best sellers market ever. Some of that will depend on what the padres, cubs, Red Sox, mariners and Yankees do.
nottinghamforest13
Despite what the author suggests there’s nothing particularly ironic about the transaction at all.
foppert1
Good on them. Baseball is better for variation. If teams were all using the same old formula it wouldn’t be as interesting. Getting the boys out and showing them to the world is a gutsy effort. Good luck Angel fans.
jvent
The Mets will trade you Vientos, Mauricio, Allan , Megill or Peterson and 1 of the SS that they just took in the draft for Cease and Robert jr
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I think this will backfire for the Angels, but at least now they’re committed to a path.
For the Sox, great trade. Giolito would have been gone for sure (no way JR ponies up that much cash with a team headed for a rebuild). Getting a top 100 prospect, and at a position of desperate need, is very solid for a rental they were never going to keep.
ActionDan
Who’s the White Sox GM Al Avila? What a poor return. Quero looks like he may be decent. I’m not convinced this makes Anaheim a contender. They are 7 back of Texas and 8.5 back of the Rays for the wild card. I’ve seen it done before so I’m not going to say it’s impossible..
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Giolito is a rental who won’t sign and Quero is a top 100 prospect at a position of desperate need. I think the Sox did very well in this. Read several gradings of this trade and worst one for the Sox was a B.
msqboxer
Everyone seems to think Ohtani is gone at the end of the season….I see Moreno just telling him I’ll beat your highest offer and in the meantime trade Trout to the east coast NY/Philly etc for a haul of everyday ready players and use the Trout money to sign FA’s like Giolito a west coast kid and others.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Trout isn’t netting you a haul of that much anymore. He’s great when he’s healthy, but how often is that? And those injury issues are unlikely to go away as he gets older. A lot of money for a player who’s on the field half the time.
AlienBob
And if they don’t make it to the World Series Ohtani will be gone. If they do make the WS they cannot afford him
That name is already taken
How can they not afford him? Are you Arte’s accountant?
bravesfan
Was hoping the Braves could land Gio but we couldn’t beat this deal. Solid return for the white Sox. If ur a sox fan, you almost want to be a bit more greedy and ask for a little more bodies just to boost the system a little extra, but again… clearly greedy cause this is a solid deal
JoeBrady
Wow, I don’t get to say this too often, but good move by both teams. Seriously, it’s been years since I said that about either team.
Viveleempireevil
…and Thank You for writing this article about the Giolito deal without using the descriptive term, “blockbuster”. Every sports page I’ve looked at used that term. This is a meaningful deal. It is not a blockbuster.
Paleobros
Angels fans deserve better in general. They have the two best players in baseball for years, and all of this epic narrative just to *maybe* get a wild card? The juice does not seem to be worth the squeeze. Maybe I’m just being practical, but I would hope and pray the team gets sold to an owner that is competent at making actual baseball decisions.
That name is already taken
and one of those two best players is currently injured. How about you go and cry about the inferior Padres with 4 of the best hitters in the NL?
filihok
How about an owner who doesn’t make baseball decisions. That seems best.
drasco036
This trade is perfectly sums up why both these organizations are in the shape they are in, the Angels have no business what so ever being “buyers”, not where they are in the standing and they definitely do not have enough prospect capital to make this type of gamble.
Meanwhile, the return the White Sox got for two of their biggest trade chips was mediocre. Pulling the trigger on a trade with that return before other teams really started the bidding to drive the price up?
That name is already taken
Yeah, I see the standings and it looks like Angels have every right to be buyers.
drasco036
7 games back in the division, 4 games out of the Wild card (with several teams to jump), an awful farm system and their most impactful player set to leave for free agency but you think being “buyers” is their right course? I wouldn’t gamble like that. It would be different if I had a fat farm but the Angels do not. And if they re-sign Ohtani, it puts them right back to square one, they cannot afford to improve the team and they won’t have the prospects to offset the salary.
That name is already taken
Braves, Yankees and Astros also have bad farms. Look at where they are. In fact, Angels are 7-3 since the break and none of those wins were due to your most impactful player Ohtani. In fact his last few starts weren’t good. Please watch some Angels games instead of what you hear from ESPN. You might learn something.
drasco036
Get back to me at the end of the season and the next five seasons to come.
Ps only fat white slobs watch espn, it’s the Fox News of sports.
flamingbagofpoop
The Braves have a bad farm because they graduated a bunch of talent and traded some of it for players they control. That is not at all the situation the angels are in.
drasco036
Similar situation as the Astros, however the Astros situation is going to be “wait and see” after losing two of the top executives in the game, one to cheating and the other due to the owners ego.
I also think it’s different when an organization can keep churning out useful players out of their farm even though they are no accompanied with all the prospect hype. The Braves and Astros have done just that.
jvent
The Angels and Ohtani must have a secret contract under the table for a new deal because if they could get 3-5 players for him now why wouldn’t they instead of losing him at season’s end for nothing and they just added to try to make it to the playoffs., good for them but hopefully their not screwing up the future of the team.
Now, White Sox, would Vientos, Mauricio, Allan, Megill or Peterson and 1 of the SS the Mets just drafted be enough for Cease and Robert Jr ?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
No. That’s a Yankees-fan level bad deal right there. Plus, I don’t think recent draftees are allowed to be traded until this offseason, at least.
drasco036
You are correct, baseball also nixed the “player to be named later” loophole teams used to trade recently drafted players.
As for the trade idea, if I’m the Sox, I shoot that down in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t do that trade for Roberts jr alone. Yeah, he has an injury history but is an elite talent, up there with the best in the game. Cease, imo, would require more track record before I broke the bank on any trade for him. Obviously flashes of greatness but then turns out this season of meh.
dasit
so many people hating on a team for trying to win. i swear some fans care more about farm rankings and tax thresholds than the actual games
flamingbagofpoop
Those things are both important to the long term success of a team. I’m sorry you can’t grasp that.
drasco036
It’s a different era of fan base. There are less “fanatics” and more people who understand the long term impact and outlook.
Had the Angels had a deeper farm, no one would say boo about this move. The fact is however the Angels farm is awful and they dealt away from it. Ohtani is going to cost them so much money to keep that it will be difficult to add around him, if not impossible with the sink cost of Rendons contract.
Ohtani wants to win, the Angels tried to appease him by pushing their chips in, however, Ohtani is going to look favorable at them in the off-season because players are smart, the do in fact look at the farm and team financials when winning is important to them.
Buctober 2
What an overpay. Yikes. I know the Angels going for it before they lose Ohtani, but I’d be pissed if I were a fan of the team. I can’t blame the Sox for trading him for that return.
gravybaby
All this just to still finish 2 games out of a wildcard
max l
So even sleeping on it overnight I’m still confused as to why the Angels did this.
Literally their entire schedule the rest of the way outside of the A’s, the 5 remaining games against Detroit and maybe the Mets depending on what they do in the next few days and how they do leading up to that August series is either against a team currently in the playoffs or in the playoff chase. So basically what they are doing is they’ll deplete an already bad minor league system, finish right around ,500 about 10-games out of the playoffs, lose Ohtani for basically nothing, and than get stuck in roster hell for 5+ years because they chased a Hail Mary that wasn’t remotely close to getting answered! For their sake I actually hope it actually pays off in a playoff bid this year because the Phillies (chasing another ring) and the Tigers (chasing a single ring) both choose the same path and it took both about 3 years longer to retool than it would have otherwise.
kellin
Yeah, this trade for Giolito isn’t looking good at the moment. Today’s blowout is proof.
jimthegoat
This doesn’t exactly mean they aren’t trading Ohtani. Ohtani would net a stronger prospect package than what the Angels gave up for Gio and Lopez and those 2 will be easier to extend.
outinleftfield
Great move by Minasian.
Improves the starting rotation by moving Anderson into the #6 slot, moving Silseth out of the rotation and into the bullpen, and by cementing Barria in the pen. Improves the rotation ERA by about a full point of ERA.
Improves the bullpen by the points above about Silseth and Barria and by moving out 2 relievers from the bottom of that pen.
All it cost is a catching prospect that has disappointed in every aspect of his game this season and a pitcher that fell off a cliff in AA and has likely hit his ceiling.
Minassian will have his work cut out for him this offseason with so many FA at the end of the year, but this gives the team a better shot at a playoff spot NOW.
Plus the team is getting Trout and Drury back in the next home series. With 3 series head to head against teams in from of them down the stretch, the Angels are in a good place right now
Ohtani dominating on the mound on a perfect day here in Detroit. Complete game shutout. We have got a few hours before the next game of the double header.
If you come for games here, I highly recommend the Roost hotel.
kellin
So far it hasnt improved the starting rotation. Giolito has been terrible. Why the h*** hasn’t Lopez been used at least a little more, already. His first two outings with the team looked good. Could have used him in yesterday’s game, instead of letting Webb go two innings and put the game out of reach…
MadSkillsUniversity
Now, if we could only trade KW and Hahn (KHahn. That said, good for Giolitto, at least he is heading back home to Calie (North, not south, but…). Going through a divorce is tough. Good luck to him. Lopez needs a new start and to just find the strike zone. Time to rebui
jimthegoat
I can still see them trading Ohtani. They’d get more/better prospects for Ohtani than they gave up for Gio and Lopez and those 2 would be easier to extend than Ohtani. Especially So-Cal native Lucas Giolito.
Thank_God_Im_Not_Tim_Dierkes
This just in, the Angels suck! Too bad Jerry and Justin didn’t push all in for the postseason, now the Mariners will have to work a little harder to get there, but it’s going to happen because we have the best rotation in baseball. Glad to see that Giolito has made two starts, giving up 12 ER over 9 IP and has received two giant “L’s” for his efforts!
Keep spending Anaheim, keep blowing through your payroll and your prospects. It’ll just be easier to discard you from the playoff picture over the next decade until Trout retires and you guys finally do a rebuild. Money doesn’t buy championships and you guys have empty prospect cupboards and the Mariners are going to courting Ohtani in just a few short months!
Too bad the best season in the history of baseball is going to be wasted on such a “mid” team.