The Pirates hammered out the largest contract in franchise history this spring, ending the long-running Bryan Reynolds saga with a $100MM extension. Shortly after finalizing that deal, owner Bob Nutting said the Bucs were hoping to get long-term contracts done with other players.
Nutting didn’t tip his hand as to which players the Bucs were interested in signing, though it’s easy to speculate about potential candidates. Shortstop Oneil Cruz is one option, as the 6’7″ infielder has hit 19 home runs in his first 98 big league games.
Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that the Pirates and Cruz’s representatives at Vayner Sports had discussed a longer-term deal during Spring Training. According to Mackey, talks never got particularly close and seem to have been tabled during the season.
That’s hardly a huge concern. Cruz entered the season with less than one year of service time. He won’t reach free agency until after the 2028 campaign and seems unlikely to qualify for arbitration before 2026. There’s plenty of time to rekindle talks down the line. Even if nothing ever comes together, the Pirates can keep him around for the bulk of the decade.
The more immediate concern is Cruz’s health. The 24-year-old broke his left ankle nine games into the season. He underwent surgery that came with a four-month recovery timeline, putting his projected return sometime in August. Manager Derek Shelton said over the weekend that Cruz’s rehab remains on schedule, while the young slugger reiterated he expects to return this season (link via Justice delos Santos of MLB.com).
Without Cruz, the Pirates have used a rotating cast at shortstop. Rodolfo Castro and Tucupita Marcano have split the bulk of the reps while Ji Hwan Bae and Chris Owings (who was recently designated for assignment) have also factored in. They’ve done a solid job offensively. Bucs’ shortstops entered play Monday with a .254/.336/.398 line that placed them in the top half of the league in all three slash stats. It’s been a struggle on the other side of the ball, however. Both Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast’s Outs Above Average have rated Pirates’ shortstops among the two worst defensive groups this year.
Cruz isn’t without defensive questions himself. He’s faced some predictable skepticism about whether he’ll be able to stick at shortstop given his height and extremely long levers. His massive power-speed upside made him a top-tier prospect in spite of those questions, though, and the Bucs are surely hoping he’ll contribute to a potential playoff push down the stretch.
Pittsburgh has plenty more young talent approaching the major league level. Their rebuild has led to one of the game’s deeper organizational pipelines, which will be further strengthened when they pick first overall this summer. It’s the second time in three years they’re at the top of the draft.
In 2021, the Bucs tabbed Louisville catcher Henry Davis with the top selection. Two years later, he’s reached the highest minor league level. The Pirates promoted Davis to Triple-A Indianapolis yesterday, a deserved bump after he mashed at a .284/.433/.547 clip in Double-A Altoona.
Davis joins 23-year-old Endy Rodríguez — an arguably even more talented prospect — as catchers with Indianapolis. General manager Ben Cherington addressed the enviable “problem” of having two young players of that caliber sharing reps in Triple-A (link via Rob Biertempfel of the Athletic). Cherington indicated it’d be a roughly even split of playing time behind the dish, with both players also seeing time at other positions.
Davis has gotten some work in right field this year. Rodríguez has played left field and second base in the past but been limited to catcher or first base in 2023. Cherington noted that neither is being considered for a full-time position switch, as any non-catching work is primarily a means of getting both in the lineup concurrently.
While many Pirates’ fans are surely pining for a look at one of those young players at the major league level, Cherington pushed back against the possibility of an imminent call-up. He expressed confidence in the duo of Austin Hedges and Jason Delay as a defensive pairing.
Hedges, signed to a $5MM free agent contract, is generally regarded as one of the sport’s best defensive backstops. He annually draws elite marks for his pitch framing and ability to block balls in the dirt. Hedges has been solid at controlling the running game and is routinely praised for his management of a pitching staff. That acumen is enough for teams to overlook a lack of offensive contributions, as he’s among the sport’s least effective hitters on an annual basis. He owns a .179/.240/.221 line through his first 110 plate appearances as a Pirate.
Delay has a much better .310/.359/.437 slash on the season, though he’s unlikely to sustain anything approaching his current .404 batting average on balls in play. He’s gotten solid marks from Statcast for his pitch framing over the past two seasons, however. So long as the Pirates are using Hedges as the primary catcher, it’s sensible to keep the 28-year-old Delay as the #2 option while letting Davis and Rodríguez play regularly in Triple-A.
You have to hand it to Austin Hedges. He always starts the year in midseason form.
He’s been amazing handling the pitchers
It doesn’t matter how well all these young guys turn out, if the Pirates ownership continues to be cheap, the Pirates will struggle to ever compete. They might have a good year or two, but they’ll never be serious contenders. We saw it last go-round with Cole, McCutchen, Marte, Polanco, Pedro Alvarez, Neil Walker, etc. They surrounded them with guys like AJ Burnett and Liriano, but they never went out and added the big piece even when it was clear they were ready to take the next step.
I’m not saying the Pirates are all of a sudden going to become the Mets, but Ben Cherington has handed out extensions that have set the franchise record now, twice. He’s defintiely been able to convince Nutting to spend more than usual. The Pirates also spent a little over $30 million in total on free agents last winter, according to MLBTR themselves. Next off-season, instead of offering a bunch of <$3-$7 million contracts, they could hand out like two $12-$15 million contracts, which would match their 2022-2023 off-season spending.
On guys like Carlos Santana, McCutchen, Rich Hill and Austin Hedges. All one year deals. Who is that last big free agent they signed? They take no risk, and they can’t find success. There’s correlation there.
I agree, they haven’t ever handed out a big FA contract (and I don’t expect them to), though I do understand their approach with free agents last off-season. The Pirates went with a “well, let’s see what happenes approach” with free agents, which is a sound strategy when you’re looking to come out of a rebuild. If you’re out of it by the deadline, oh well just trade them off. But if you’re truly in a position to contend, the one-year deals could really work out in their favor.
I don’t expect them to pursue any big time free agent, but I definitley expect them to go with a more quality over quantity strategy with their money next off-season. I’d like to see them add one quality starting pitcher and a couple of reliable bullpen arms. I would be perfectly fine with like Jordan Montgomery as the biggest FA addition next off-season.
The combination of younger players and veterans, especially those like Cutch and Santana who are often seen in the dugout helping the younger players, this is formidable team for the money they are spending.
Granted they play in a weak division, they are beating teams that in recent years were beating them
St. louis is a perfect example
They’re I believe 8-3 against the Cardinals which is a complete turnaround from the past few seasons when the Cardinals could basically count on a win against the Bucs
They don’t spend big $? Good. No need to when you have one of the best front offices. Why pay hundreds of millions when you can get better production from Burnett Liriano. I love Santana. Much better than paying 30m for Bell or 60m for Abreu. 1 year deals are the best deals. Highly motivated player for cheap. I love Pirates model. Don’t like it there are plenty of teams to root for that love to waste huge amounts of money.
You hit the nail on the head about Nutting being risk adverse.
As for being cheap, there’s no doubt Pirates can afford to spend more, but it’s certainly no guarantee of success. FA signings are a crapshoot.
Personally, I’d rather they allocate the majority of their payroll flexibility internally to guys like Keller, Bednar, and Cruz. And continue to sign 2nd tier FA ‘s on 1-2 year deals. Maybe sprinkle in a trade or two for higher impact veterans by giving up prospects from their deep pool of prospects and/or vets getting close to FA.
This seems more realistic than thinking Pirates are going to be players for the best FA’s on the market each winner.
How can anyone say they love the Pirates model? You love losing year in and year out? I’m not suggesting they go sign Ohtani. I’m suggesting in years like 2015 when they knew they had a solid core to work with – go big at the deadline and trade some of the youth to win now for the fans. Sign a contract or two that could make you look bad, but could also make you look like a genius. Risks are necessary for success.
Look at every team that has won the World Series in the past 20 years. Even the Royals – a smaller market team than the Pirates had a very good nucleus of players, they went out and traded for Cueto to propel them to a championship. That same year the Pirates had a very strong nucleus of players as well – what did they do at the deadline? Absolutely nothing. They didn’t win the division and the Cubs beat them in the Wild Card game. They finished TWO games behind the Cardinals. If they won the division, they would have avoided the one game play-in game.
So what did the Pirates do the next offseason to push them over the hump? They let guys walk, but hey! They signed David Freese!
The team that beat them in that playoff game – the Cubs – what did they do after they were beat in the 2015 playoffs? They took a big risk on signing Heyward, they signed Zobrist and Lackey, and at the deadline – they needed one more piece to get over the top – they took a big risk and traded their top prospect in Gleyber Torres for Chapman.
The Cubs have more room for error bc they play in a bigger market, I get that, but in the same timeframe, the Pirates did NOTHING! The Heyward contract for the Cubs was a nightmare. The backend of the Zobrist contract was worthless. Lackey fell off quickly after 2016. Gleyber Torres went on to be a good every day player, and Chapman signed with the Yankees that offseason.
Had the Cubs lost that World Series, they would have taken a lot of heat, BUT they went for it. They didn’t hope their farm system would take them all the way. The Pirates don’t need to spend like the Cubs, but they need to take risks, trade prospects when the time to win comes, and go get the pieces necessary to take the team over the top.
Why?
Because prospects are cool, but parades are cooler.
Pirates didn’t have many or any needs. Plugged the ones they did Morneau Byrd Soria Happ. Even did one of those trades you are thirsty for Archer. Playoffs are a crap shoot. Too small of sample size. Best team doesn’t always win. Freese was a great sign. Trading Cole Cutch were fantastic moves. 16 17 18 19 pirates were contenders. They failed so new management was brought it. Rebuild was right decision. 7 or 8 years of contending, 3 years rebuild, then another 7 8 years of contending. I will take that. Hopefully they can pull off the always contending model though.
Did you know that before they extended Hayes and Reynolds this year, the biggest contract the Pirates gave was Jason Kendall in 2000? That’s pathetic. TAKE A CHANCE. You are a billionaire. Spend $$.
I know, and I agree it sucks, but I am not going to complain about breaking the franchise record two years in a row now. Hope they continue being more aggressive with extending their players. Only time will tell, but I am happy to finally not be a team to have never offered/signed a $100+ mil contract.
It must be nice to spend other people’s money, RyanD44.
Pirate fans are well aware of how cheap owner is, we don’t need to be reminded of it
Ryan, few here will disagree with you about Nutting and it’s funny to me that he is finally addressing the numerous bars, restaurants and shops that suffered thanks to low attendance during the past few years.
That said however, @YourDreamGM has pretty much nailed the business model being used here, for better or worse. You’re right. They’ll never compete consistently, that is, if you are referring to pennants and WS rings
But clearly, they are emulating the Tampa Bay model, as are Baltimore and Cleveland, among others
They’ve made numerous trades, drafted and picked up a great deal of young talent. Now watch them mature and improve, come to the MLB level, form a competitive team, perhaps make the playoffs at some point, and when the young talent becomes worthy of bigger contracts, trade them and continually restock the minors. Rinse. Repeat
I have one of ownership’s biggest detractors but to me, it’s clear
I have no doubt that this plan has been in place dating back to when Cutch and Neil arrived, but it was de-railed in the last regime’s final years via bad trades, poor scouting and drafting and complete lack of player development
Cherington has returned the club to that blueprint
I still tend to believe these “blue chippers” are only designated as such in the Pirates system and would not be as highly described say, in LA or Atlanta, but time will tell
So the Pirates should go out and spend whatever it cost to take on Baez or Chris Davis?
No thanks. You can have a league minimum guy out there strike out 200 times without an albatross contract.
But let me ask you this…if you’re an in demand FA, and you can choose your destination, why would you choose Pittsburgh? And I say that as someone loving living here. You can get insane money and the opportunity for a ring elsewhere. The only way to get FAs now are massive overpays, or taking on Santanas and Hills that are just hanging on and if you’re lucky get something for at the deadline. But if they keep trending in the right direction, and are a piece or two away, Pittsburgh suddenly looks more attractive. Kind of like Baltimore now.
Ryan- One May think that you are very knowledgeable about the Pirates first in the middle of the last decade and now based on your several posts.
The Pirates had the second best total regular season record in the ML’s for the 2013-2015 period.They had the awful misfortune of playing in the same division as the best team over that period.
The Pirates had the best wild card record in both 2014 and 2015 but had the awful misfortune to play against the best ML starter in each of those two years.
Based on your voluminous knowledge,who should the Pirates have signed then to overcome this unlucky adversity?
Also,what players recently upon signing would have made them contenders over the last few years?
It’s more about the fact that they didn’t do anything to enhance their chances to win the division and avoid those 1 game wild card games. Why didn’t they go get Cueto instead of the Royals? The package Reds received was high on quantity but low on quality. Surely the Pirates could have outdone that. They could have gone after any one of the rentals that eventually got traded anyway: Cespedes, Hamels, David Price and the aforementioned Cueto. They didn’t want to part with their top prospects at the time – Glasnow, Meadows, Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon. Instead they waited until it was too late, made an ill-advised trade later on with Glasnow and Meadows for a burnt out Chris Archer. Bell and Taillon went on to be decent for the Pirates, but eventually traded well before their free agent years anyway. Most importantly: they never won with them, so what was the point in holding onto them when they had a real shot at winning?
As far as recent years go, the Pirates have somehow managed to not develop much of anything despite having high draft picks and being sellers each year. You mentioned they had the unfortunate luck of facing the top two pitchers and being in a division with the best team. Now they are fortunate enough to be in a division that has been really bad for a while now.
They did much much much better than Cueto. Guy called JA Happ.
Ryan- Most importantly,hindsight is always 20-20.
They added several players,most notably Blanton,JA Happ,and Soria,and also the first baseman from the Twins in 2013.
The minor leaguers that you said were kept because they were deemed as building blocks,which is essential for small market teams.
I think that a Hamels add may have been the only plus out of your list but the Rangers gave up big for him and he may not even have wanted to come to Pittsburgh even for a short time.
It seems that you agree with me regarding the recent Pirate teams and free agents.
I would love to see some sort of five year rating of big ticket free agent or team player signing results.I think that you are looking at 30 cents on the dollar.
And who was responsible for his immediate resurgence?
Ray Searage.
When I was Searage I was walking uphill in the snow to school barefooted.
Ryan; what big piece do you suggest they overpay for?
“Cherington indicated it’d be a roughly even split of playing time behind the dish, with both players also seeing time at other positions.”
This HAS to be the plan when they come to the majors.
Let each of them catch 81 or so games a year while also playing other positions or DH’ing to stay fresh while ALWAYS having an elite bat at the C spot is such an advantage over what other teams are doing with that spot.
I agree. No catcher catches 150 games. Henry has been playing a handful of games in right field this year, and Endy can play first base and left field. Plenty of positional versatility to where the Pirates can get both of their bats in the line-up, and make it to where they don’t wear themselves out at catcher.
If the Pirates do extend any players, I really hope it’s Mitch Keller. I’ve been rooting so hard for Keller since he made his debut back in 2019. I can’t tell you how many times I argued with my friends over how good Keller could be even though he struggled lol. It’s been a rough, but highly rewarding ride for him. He’s really finally looking like the guy who was ranked as one of baseball’s best pitching prospects in the late-2010s.
Tucupita Marcano has definitley earned an extended look at shortstop. Castro is a terrible defensive SS, even if his bat plays extremely well there. Marcano definitley has his shortcomings when it comes to his defense at SS, but he’s leagues ahead of Castro. Also can’t wait to see the return of Cruz. The Pirates haven’t had an elite-hitting shortstop since the days of Arky Vaughn. The only Pirates’ SS to have a wRC+ greater than 120 post intergration in a single season is Jay Bell in 1993 at 125 (min. 500 PA). Cruz’s 17 home runs last year is the third most a Pirates shortstop has ever hit in one season, and he did it in less than 400 PAs. Arky Vaugh hit 19 in 610 PA in 1935 and Glenn Wright hit 18 in 660 PA in 1925.
I assume when the Pirates promote either Davis or Endy to the big leagues, Delay is the one who gets the bump to Triple-A. As frustrating as Hedges is, Delay has options remaining and that’s almost always the deciding factor. Delay started the year off red hot, but has looked more like his 2022 self over the past month or so, which isn’t all that surprising. But I can’t complain about either Delay’s or Hedges’ defense. The Pirates lead all teams in catcher framing runs by 3.2 runs, according to FanGraphs.
I’d put thee odds of this happening around 5% but given that Hedges is a free agent at the end of the year and Delay has several years of control and options remaining, I would like to see the Pirates trade Hedges around the deadline and call up Endy to take his spot. For the second half of the season ease Endy in to the big leagues splitting time with Delay, let Davis get the bulk of catching duties in AAA then next spring make Davis and Endy beat out Delay to earn the MLB roster spots. Even if the return in a Hedges trade is as minimal as it should be, this would allow the team to keep three viable catchers for the next several years and show each of them the front office has faith and trust in their abilities.
Don’t forget about Abrahan Nunez. He may not have the ceiling of Endy or Davis, but he certainly looks to be as good as either of them defensively, and has a much better bat than Delay.
Did you see Mackey’s article on the top 10 prospects in the Pirates system in yesterday’s PG, Scott?
3 or 4 names I never heard of and no Swaggerty, Nunez, Mitchell,Ngiba-Smith among other names we have continually heard
Beyond Davis, Endy and Priester, it reminds you that this is really a work in progress. Guys have a good month or two, some come up to the big team, get publicity then go cold and land on the back burner
I bring this up as yet another question about the Pirates player development program
How much of what we hear is hype and hope?
I don’t know what to tell you if you’ve never heard of Jared Jones, Bubba Chandler, Anthony Solometo, Liover Peguero, Thomas Harrington, Nick Gonzales,etc. Harrington. Solometo, and Jones were second round picks who are tearing up their respective level. Harrington was a competive balance A pick who has done exceptionally well this year.Chandler was a first round talent who fell to the third round because of signability. Mitchell, Nunez, and CSN were never among the Pirates’ top 10 prospects.
Peguero and Gonzalez, of course
The others, not so much. My focus has always been on the big club.
I rely on fans like you for updates about the minors. Thanks
Hitting successfully in the minors doesn’t always translate into success at the majors.
Minor league pitchers aren’t throwing 100 mph fastballs or dangerous sliders, if they were they’d be pitching in the majors, so for me, I’ll wait until these top prospects make it to Pittsburgh before claiming how good they will be.
I can no longer live on hope and dreams, I’ve been disappointed too many times
Corn-Neither Peguero nor Gonzalez have proven anything in the minor leagues and time is running out to do so.
Gonzales was a first round pick who did extremely well in 2021, and had a great second half of 2022. He’s a slow starter though. Peguero has been doing a lot better as of recently. Since April 20th, he’s batting .283/.367/.469 with a K% of just 16.9% and BB% of 12%. He’s only 22 as well, and he’ll likely get moved to Triple-A if he continues to hit well.
@mlb1225 Nick seems streaky. Peguero is pretty pedestrian at the moment. may til now isn’t overly exciting. not really bad, but not really good.
Mason martin is more exciting than Peguero and to me more exciting than Nick.. partially because 1b is more needed than the other infield spots. but Mason is back to AA so the competition might be skewing what he is doing.
Sometimes AA is more competitive than AAA. Triple-A is where many teams stash quad-A guys whereas at you’re not really seeing that at Double-A. Doesn’t mean that Double-A has no organizational filler type guys, but it’s less frequent there. Either way, I still think Martin is way too three-true-outcomes-like to really make me excited. Martin is still striking out over a quater of the time, though he has made multiple changes to his swing. Even keeping a K% below 30% is impressive for him. He’s also completley sold out for the flyball. Last time I checked, he has like a 60% FB%. But again, I’ll be interested in Martin again if he can get his K% below 25%.
The thing with Peguero you have to remember is that he’s still a very young player. He made his MLB debut at only 21. The average age of pitchers in the Eastern League, the league Altoona is in, is still 24.6 YO. Average age for batters is 23.9 YO.
Joe-Martin has kept his K’s to below 30% this year instead of almost 40% in previous years.He also has a good K/W ratio whereas before it was very bad.
He needs to prove it in AAA though.
These guys are a dime a dozen unless they lessen the K rate.
I am intrigued by Shackleford in AAA who was a low level draft choice but who has come on strong the last month in AAA.
Not forgetting about Abrahan, he’s just lower on the immediate pecking order. Wouldn’t be surprised in two or three years if Nunez and Endy are splitting catching duties with Davis playing RF and being the DH.
There’s probably hundreds of minor league pitchers that throw upper 90s heat and have nasty breaking balls. It’s not like guys all of a sudden add 10 mphs and 1000 rpms on their spin rates when they go for AAA to MLB. The guys who iron out the rough edges to their game such as control, pitch sequencing and tunneling pitches end up in the big leagues. The rest remain minor leagues that throw in the upper 90s and can break off a nice offspeed pitch but can’t put it all together to be consistently effective.
Swaggerty, Nunez, Mitchell,Ngiba-Smith. I don’t expect much out of those guys. Mitchell Smith are trending towards 5th outfielders if anything. Nunez is young enough and has the power to have higher hopes but a lot has to go right. Swaggerty has the defense and enough bat potential to be a backup at least. 2019 1st round pick is looking iffy. 2020 1st rounder more so. Priester Gonzales. They will be mlb players. Just have some flaws that might keep them from being difference makers.
Good news like mlb said and a lot more after that in A ball, the pirates have talent. Slim compared to the top systems on the blue chip top 100 near mlb ready. Heavy and deep at lower level. They took a lot of good arms in rounds 2 3 4 in 2021 2022 drafts. Did well in international market. A top ten system. Would be higher but other teams have just been awesome with player development or rebuilding longer.
@mlb1225 yeah ‘maybe skewing’ 🙂
Also keeping in mind his history. he was mashing the ball until AAA before. Could be development staff. Could be he was against future all-star pitching. as to why that was. I’ve been missing the minors games the recently so no first hand experience watching anything outside highlight reels on youtube which are few.
I hope they find room for him to get at least 100 PAs for him this year so he can work on what he needs too in off season. He and Jack could be the power bats they’ve been looking for over the past “few” years.
You mean Jack Suwinski who has more strikeouts than hits?
Yeah he has raw power but he’s digressed from last year when he should have improved on attacking the strike zone.
He leads the team in striking out while looking which suggests he’s either not seeing the ball or will only swing at pitches thrown down the middle
@theman3
more strike outs than hits isn’t uncommon. In fact it is quite the opposite. Jack maybe a “little” (note the quote) more SO/H ratio but players who sell out for power are in a similar boat to Jack.
Pedro Alvarez: 36HR 186SO 130H 296OBP 115OPS+
Kyle Schwarber: 46HR 200SO 126H 323OBP 131OPS+
(CAREER)Jack Suwinski: 30HR 178SO 103H 313OBP 107OPS+
More complete batters will be different but even players like Judge and Trout have struck out more than hit or close too at different points of their career.
Anyway, so far over all Jack looks improved in 2023 but still short sample in 2023, anything could happen
Where does he looked improved?
He still can’t hit lefties but he’s drawing more walks, and I don’t care about what Alvarez or Kingman did in their strikeouts to hits ratio, Comparisons don’t score runs or get hits
@theman3
You missed the point.. it isn’t a comparison they are examples that when players sell out for power they tend to strike out and strike out A LOT. Still they are often positive contributors to the offense.
But just to put out a comparison just so you will not care about it. Alvarez and Schwarber could not / can not hit lefties either.
But here is the trick.. Jack is creating runs. Hes no all star right now and may never be but he has improved since his call up last year in almost every aspect. Lets hope it sticks.
He’s 1 for his last 11 abs with 1 rbi and 1 run scored and no extra base hits
Given the chance to play against righties I don’t see the runs he’s producing but he’s not the only player that I am disappointed with
Connor Joe should not be in the #3 position in the batting order. Santana shouldn’t be batting cleanup
Bae shouldn’t be batting 8th
And I think Reynolds in the #2 spot isn’t seeing good enough pitches to do damage so he often swings at pitches that are out of the strike zone in attempts to make something happen
There aren’t any good options here. Let’s be serious. Every time you want to feel optimism about these guys, they turn around and look miserable as they did in the Oakland series
This is who they are
They’re anemic and even Reynolds and Cutch have come back down to earth
The 20-8 start was nice, punctuated by a lot of nice pitching performances. The 7-19 trek since has been a study of anemic hitting, poor starting pitching, bad fielding and worse baserunning
No matter who bats in whatever position in this lineup, it’s going to be anemic.
Overall, they’ve progressed since last year. But again, just where are the hits and runs going to come from? And if this current starting pitching that we’ve seen IS in fact more reflective of this staff’s abilities, they’re going to sink like a rock
This entire thread about hitters is kind of amusing. Again, there are NO good options here
Corn-It is easy to get frustrated for us very very very long time fans like you,me,Buuba,The Man,and others.
Dream GM is right,this is a mediocre team.
But it may very well no longer be awful.
Willie Stargell said don’t get too high after wins and too low after losses.
Whatever will be will be.
I have long ago stopped investing so much heartache in the losses.
It is not good for the soul.
But believe it or not,they do seem to be getting incrementally better.
Just be careful though that it could fall apart quickly if Keller is not the ace that we assumed and they get even more injuries.
It takes years to build good depth.
Just enjoy the wins and ignore the losses.We cannot change a thing.
@theman3
yeah the last handful of games hasn’t been good but on the season he is an overall+
The whole team has been bad since mid-may or there bouts.
yeah the batting order boggles my mind most nights too.
Yes, that’s the point, Mendoza. Most of us predicted somewhere in the 70-75 wins category. Even during their start, many of us did not waver.
It’s hard to gauge just what this team is but your point is valid. They are better than what we’ve seen over the past couple years
I will say this, however. You look at teams with young players who come up—beyond TB, Atlanta and LA, who are in a different class where scouting and development are concerned—and again, you’re left to wonder about the Pirates. In watching teams like Baltimore and even the Reds, their prospects look much more polished and MLB-ready
The Pirates *were* like those teams in the 70’s and during the Leyland era. They were on point when guys like Cutch, Walker, Marte, Cole et al arrived. You simply don’t see this kind of polish coming here now despite the hype. Maybe Cruz will be the outlier to this point
Yeah, it’s going to be a slow process and maybe you, Dream, mlb or others can tell me just who the bonafide stars of the near future will be
So far, I’m happy with a team that can at least compete to be around-around—.500, but you’ll excuse me if a debate about who bats where in this lineup seems pointless and if I don’t get excited about any of the guys on the farm, given what we’ve seen
Corn-I was bummed out because you seemed bummed out.
One wonders though about the quick turnaround for some of the teams.I said at the start of the year in response to a Reds poster that they had several impressive young pitchers.Look at how bad the Diamondbacks were just a couple of years ago.I know it took a long time for the Orioles to turn it around but they seem to be the real thing.
I agree with you on the polish aspect.They have not made strides in that area.They are still one of the worst fielding teams in the MLs.
I am not overly confident that their ceiling is much more than a 500 team.It is a shame because this year the division title should be an attainable goal for a decent team.
You should go check out PiratesProspects.com daily to get more acquainted with the future Bucs. Lots of high ceiling talent with more coming this summer.
Not so much “ bummed,” my friend They are much easier to watch than a year ago although, the A’s series for me was a return to what we have seen, replete with poor pitching and incredibly bad at bats from a number of players
Again, I can live with a 75 win team. I’d be thrilled with a .500 team or better
I agree about the Diamondbacks. Good example. And sure, the Orioles didn’t just become good overnight. But compare the progress of their young talent from the point of call-up. And I’ll include the Reds in this
Just seems to me that the Pirates are still on a different page where scouting and player development are concerned. And if I have any negative thoughts, it’s just that I can’t see that light at the end of the tunnel that the Pirates PR department, broadcasters and local media want me to see
Corn- Once again young man,we think alike.
I am not an overly empathetic individual,but sensitive enough to respond to people who I like who seem to be down in the dumps.
I am glad that you are not.
Thanks Scott! I will do that
The problem with your wish is that Hedges wouldn’t bring much if anything in a trade. Most teams at the deadline are looking for offensive help, something Hedges lacks
Jimmy-If the Pirates continue to get reasonably good pitching,and stay at least somewhat in contention,I do not think that you will see either Hill or Hedges moved,and Delay will stay also.If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Davis and Endy have to first hit in AAA to earn a promotion,and it would not be fair to put either young catcher in the middle of a pennant chase.
One or both may get ML cameos,but they still need AAA time to get better at catching.
We’re going to get hammered today by the A’s
Contreras needs to go back into the bullpen
Time for Ortiz to warm up
Correction
Castro is a defensive liability, regardless of where he plays.
There are currently talks between Keller and his agent on a long term extension
I think Hedges is a better defensive option at catcher and calls a better game with whichever pitcher is on the mound but I agree, Delay will be the odd man out when Endy or Davis is promoted
Castro isn’t great defensively anywhere, but he’s significantly better at 2B than SS. His weaknesses are much more pronounced on the left side of 2B.
did you see his throw from Castro to Santana in last night’s game
Practically pulled Santana off of first and Castro was closer to first than 2nd when he threw the ball
I cringe sometimes when a ball is hit in his direction
I never said he was good at 2B. Being significantly better at 2B doesn’t mean he’s good. He’s a Godawful SS, and only a below average 2B.
He’s committed 9 errors so far this season, 6 at shortstop, 2 at second and 1 at 3rd
As I previously said, I cringe when the ball is hit in his direction
Paul- The Pirates needed a shortstop in the worst way,and Castro was one in the worst way.
He should never have been Plan B.
It would have been Newman but acquiring a young relief pitcher with talent for him was too enticing.
Plan B should have been Marcano from the start.Castro just is not a good infielder.
He’s been slightly below in terms of DRS and OAA at the keystone. Though at shortstop, he has -8 DRS and -7 OAA, which is kind of impressive, just not in a good way, given he’s played less than 200 innings at SS.
@mendoza Agreed, though I definitley don’t think anyone is regretting the Newman trade. Moreta has been outright dominant this season and is really taking hold of a higher-leverage role.
BC does not have the money that the large market teams have to hoard depth.He has to take chances.I think that he has done well in keeping in the organization Andujar,DeJong,and Underwood who are borderline big leaguers but better than the AAA and AAAA players that were previously used as replacements.
I think I’m being misunderstood, Mendoza
I have no preconceived notions about why Castro is getting so much playing time. Trading Newman and even Castillo damperwd their choices to replace Cruz long term.
On the other hand, receiving a dominant pitcher in exchange for Newman made too much sense because they have Marcano waiting in the wings as a utility player.
It’s also worth mentioning that BC took over a failing player development program from the previous General Manager and has only been in that position since 2019.
That all said, I’m once again questioning Shelton’s lineup in tonight’s game
Castro at 2nd against a righty and Hayes batting 7th.
I question just about everything Shelton does. I think he’s a terrible manager. Cutch plays 4 games a week at DH, Bae might be better defensively if he played 1 position, Hedges needs to sit more, pick a damn lineup and stick with it for at least 2 games in a row. The constant shuffling of bench players in the lineup is ridiculous! I know I mentioned sitting Hedges some but his offense is soooo bad.
Paul- No,I was responding to mlb.
I think that you and I and mlb are all in agreement that Newman would have been a mid term replacement of value,but the trade was too enticing to resist.
We are all in agreement that Castro is not a shortstop.
Paul-I was a responding to mlb.
We are all in agreement that Newman would have been a better mid range replacement but the trade was too good to resist.
All agree that Castro is not a shortstop and I am surprised that the Pirates even thought that he could be.
Chico-I think that terrible as descriptive is clearly too much.
I am not sure that he can lead a good team.
Hitters are taught to be repetitive in their swings,pitchers in their pitches,and fielders fielding.
Why he cannot have one or two set lineups is beyond me.
That said,he seems to be better in using his bullpen even inasmuch as it is much better than previous ones.
I think that Hedges provides much more than meets the eye.
It is a trend in baseball to have players play several positions and I think that it is basically stupid to expect infielders to be outfielders and learn in the MLs.
I think that he is fairly good at keeping the bench players in practice especially if he is resting the older players.
I think that the players respect him and like him.He may not be able to get tough on the few that need it though.
I acknowledge that hedges is great at handling the pitchers and calling a game. However, hitting below .200 is unacceptable for a professional. Maybe if he had some power and could drive in a few runs, it would balance things out to some degree. I’m only suggesting that he sit more often than he does.
I don’t care about trends. There’s no reason to move everyone around the diamond and in the lineup everyday.
I think that we agree on these points.
Delay should be playing as much as Hedges as long as he is hitting fairly well.Hedges I think is like 210 lifetime so this year is not a lot worse.
This team lost to the worst team in all of baseball last night, and in fact got their respective butts kicked
The lineup was set up for disaster before the first pitch was thrown
Your #1 run producer shouldn’t be batting 2nd, nor should Connor Joe be batting 5th
Your fastest player should bat leadoff followed by Marcano.
Cutch 3rd, followed by Reynolds
This team doesn’t have an Aaron Judge type power hitter and should be playing more small ball like bunting for base hits,
Keller didn’t have it yesterday, and the bullpen should have been warming up long before he was removed. Dejong needs to be sent back to Indy
I’m embarrassed to be a Bucs fan after last night’s debacle
Agreed Man, I’d put Bae at 2B and bat him lead off and leave him there, Marcano stays at short and bats 2nd.
Biggest thing now is winning this series and not fallling off a cliff again!!
I don’t know what to think about this team just yet. A week ago I figured the season was basically over. Now they got a little hot but maybe the cardinals are just bad and their record is what they really are. We know Oakland is probably going to end up with the worst modern record ever so no need to get ahead of ourselves with them. Something that the pirates have been very consistent with so far is beating up the bad teams and losing to the good ones. If you go series by series they have pretty much won against the bad teams and lost to the good teams.
A lot of people said that May was going to be the true test for the Pirates, but it might honestly be June. There are three series (four if you want to count the final series that goes into July) against division rivals. The Pirates already took the first one by sweeping the Cardinals. The big ones are going to be the ones against the Cubs and two against the Brewers. Could really build a large lead in the NLC if they can take the Brewers series.
Let’s hope they take the next 2 against the A’s . There’s no reason to think they can’t but in baseball, anything can happen
Very average team. But so is most of the NL and especially the central. They have a bullpen that can hold leads. A starting rotation that is average. A average lineup. That’s good enough for 80 some wins. Losing Velasquez was a huge blow. Contreras is the weak link and needed to go to pen. Another pitching injury and they are likely finished. They had ok solid depth with Brubaker Ortiz Burrows. You can never have enough pitch depth and know they don’t have any. Maybe Priester or someone will surprise. I wouldn’t bet on it though.
May was a brutal schedule and bad slump by many bats. June much easier. If they can avoid major injury until trade deadline the got a shot.
If the Pirates no 81 games it will be a tremendous improvement no matter how bad the division is.
I feel bad for Velasquez.Marin is the first coach to get him to his long predicted fine pitching ability.It is a big loss.
Half the small market teams and many mid market teams do not have good pitching depth so the Pirates are no exception.
I don’t think they’d be ‘finished’ if there was another injury, but they’d certiantly be put between a rock and a hard place. An injury would almost force them to bring up Priester, who hasn’t been doing all that bad at Triple-A after a strange start to the season where he had a .404 BABIP in April. That’s why I was sort of hoping to snag the recently DFAd Zach Plesac.
I don’t think Priester is ready yet. Also depends on who would get injured. Keller a death blow. Contreras well Priester or whoever can’t be much worse than he has been the past month. Hopefully no more long term injuries.
Good to see the Bucs winning, and especially vs. the snobs of the NL Central, aka, the Cardinals.
I, for one, would be ecstatic if they somehow won the division. Don’t laugh. It could happen. Hayes is starting to heat up, and despite the snipes at the SP, save for Keller, I think every one of them is more than serviceable.
But mostly I want them to win the division for Cutch. I loved that guy when we had him in Philly. We never should have let him walk. And, I’m not a cult of one in my praise of Cutch. Philly fans, often maligned in the media, would agree with me about Cutch. When you Google “Solid Citizen”, the first thing you’ll see is a picture of Cutch.
The NLC is so bad this year, winning 82-85 games might just win it. The Pirates might not be great, but with how this division has been this year, being okay will put you in the race.
Pulling for the Buca and if not them, the equally surging Redlegs.
If the cardinals really do suck, then the division seems winnable. Not really a brewers guy myself, they look like frauds to me. -21 RD is terrible. 82-85 was the exact amount of W I was thinking today. Lots of brewers cubs games on deck like you said. It will be important to do good there because they have an awful west coast trip right before the all star break
He has one of the funniest Instagrams for athletes with his skits!
Pirates don’t spend money – cheap!
Pirates spend some money to retain core players who want to stay – cheap!
Pirates coming out of rebuild mode – Why haven’t they won the WS yet? They won’t bc they’re cheap!
What would life be like without an AYF!
Thank you YBC.
You know, the stars will almost have to align for them to win a division, a playoff series or more. If they had another guy like Keller, I’d be pretty optimistic. But instead, they have guys who’ve shown flashes. Oviedo, Ortiz and Contreras are so up and down in starts that it’s hard to get a reading. Too bad Brubaker is gone (Jeez, did I just write that?)
They’ve won a number of games with just 5 or 6 hits so far this season. Chalk that up to pitching, especially the bullpen. But it’s hard to continue along that track for an entire season
Cheap? Yeah, and they always will be. It’s been a nice surprise so far this season but I can’t get too lost in the euphoria to again wonder where the hits and runs are going to come from in the dog days
Here’s an interesting question:
Let’s say the Pirates are in contention at deadline time. Do they look to add a big bat or two and trade away some of their prospects, or do they stick with the organizational philosophy that we now see?
My guess is the status quo and reassess in the offseason. It’s difficult to gauge Nutting at this point.
Agreed, Creature. And truthfully, two things pop into my head. One is obviously the awful Archer trade but with this team, Nutting isn’t the only one who’s hard to gauge
All of these ‘blue chip’ prospects that are here and ready for the big show seem to either be products of the PR department or a player evaluation and development department that has a lot of hallucinations
I’d be fine with them doing nothing because I’m sure whomever they ship away will go on to be a star
Speaking of spending money and not going to the WS, your team spends money like it’s falling out of the sky yet the Yankees aren’t winning the World Series either
I think that it would be like the 2013-205 period.They added good players and gave up a minor leaguer but not a top notch one.
BC is wise in looking at the short term and long term.
In my opinion they have a number of minor leaguers who they could get something for but probably not hurt them in the long run.
Small market teams have to always look at the long run.
And you have to have a position that is weak in order to add a big bat on a temporary basis.
I doubt that you are going to see an Archer type trade though.
It’s funny. I’m looking at the MLBTR article about Kole Calhoun. Here’s a guy who would have fit perfectly in right and would have come rather cheaply
But the Dodgers swoop in, of all people