JUNE 14, 8:02pm: The Senate has concurred with the Assembly’s amendments, tweets Howard Stutz of the Nevada Independent. The bill is officially headed to Lombardo’s desk for ratification.
JUNE 14, 7:19pm: The State Assembly passed the proposal by a 25-15 vote after making a few minor amendments, Mueller relays (Twitter link). Those changes will have to be agreed upon by the State Senate, though that’s not expected to be an issue.
If/when the Senate concurs with the Assembly’s amendments, the bill can officially go to Lombardo for ratification. At that point, the A’s will be able to formally ask MLB for approval to relocate.
JUNE 13: On Tuesday afternoon, the Nevada State Senate voted 13-8 in favor of the A’s proposal for roughly $380MM in public funding to construct a stadium in Las Vegas. Jacob Solis, Sean Golonka and Tabitha Mueller of the Nevada Independent were among those to cover the news.
It’s a notable hurdle cleared for A’s ownership. The bill will be put in front of the state assembly tomorrow afternoon. If approved by the assembly, it’d go to Governor Joe Lombardo’s office for ratification. Lombardo has been a strong supporter of the legislation and would be expected to ratify. At that point, the A’s could formally apply MLB for relocation.
MLB’s owners are conducting a quarterly meeting in New York this week. However, the A’s stadium situation has not been put on the docket. Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that no vote on relocation is likely to take place this week even if the bill clears the assembly and governor’s office within the next few days. Nightengale notes that such a vote would likely take place before next month’s All-Star Break, though.
There’s little question about the A’s finding support from Lombardo or MLB. Commissioner Rob Manfred has publicly backed the franchise’s efforts, agreeing to waive the relocation fee to facilitate the move. (As Joe Garofoli and John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle write, a pair of Bay Area representatives announced the introduction of a bill this morning that would require a departing franchise to pay a decade’s worth of local and state taxes to their former location. However, there’s little expectation of that measure gaining legitimate traction in Congress.)
Assuming the A’s get approval from the Nevada assembly, it’s highly likely their relocation plan will be successful. Their efforts had slowed in the past few weeks, as their push for public funding hit an initial snag in the state senate. As Golonka, Mueller and Solis wrote this morning, the bill’s proponents made some alterations to the franchise’s community benefits agreement that evidently tipped enough voters in favor of the proposal.
Such nonsense.
MLB has to get Oakland a new stadium; then the Rays a new stadium and then baseball will have expansion teams. We’re already set up for that with the expanded post season etc. mlb has stated many teams once these two teams are figured out mlb will expand
If and when they do expand. I wonder if they’ll go to (4) four team divisions like football. I’d think you’d have to, so it won’t be unbalanced divisions again with 6-5-5 in each.
It will either be 8 divisions of 4 teams, or 4 divisions of 8 teams.
They will do 8 of 4 to make Boston have a chance at relevancy.
Why must all the divisions be perfectly balanced? Five or six teams per division is just fine.
Lol, the Sox have three rings since the turn of the Century. I do believe no other team can claim that.
Try four. On the one hand,, it strengthens your statement. OTOH, it’s embarrassing for you.
Giants have three rings since the turn of the 2010s.
I agree. The NL was just fine for a long ass time. Move the Royals to nl central and Brewers back to the nl central. The nl central has 6 teams for such a long time. They don’t need balanced divisions like they need it with the schedules. Which they finally have.
4 of 8 would be much better imo.
The Giants.
Lol, the Royals Pirates and Reds all in the same division, as if life weren’t already good for the Cards/Cubs/Brewers.
If the A’s move, the first expansion team will likely be in Oakland. Its such a huge market, a ballpark location has already been vetted and approved, and a new owner will be committed to winning while Fisher is not.
There will not be an expansion team in Oakland should the A’s leave. This isn’t the NFL where Cleveland and Houston were promised teams after their original teams relocated. The same problem would still be there: the stadium, same situation with everyone talking about possibly expanding to Montreal. The same elephant has been in the room since 2004.
Oakland will never get another franchise, either expansion or relocation, unless a new stadium is already built
The TV market is insane but California is notorious for denying sports franchises access to taxpayer money. An expansion seems more likely than an existing team moving to the Bay Area.
It is not a huge market
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?
Las Vegas gets 50 million visitors a year.
A lot of visitors that have never seen baseball will flock to the stadium, along with Vegas locals.
It’s just the chosen location, (Tropicana Hotel on Vegas Strip ), will cause a nightmare with traffic, every home game.
“A lot of visitors that have never seen baseball will flock to the stadium, along with Vegas locals.”
This has not been the case with the Raiders, who rank near the bottom of the league in attendance. I sincerely doubt that people in Vegas are going to ‘flock’ to see a historically bad team that was made historically bad on purpose, nor will they want to watch a team whose owner runs them on a shoestring budget. People can see John Fisher’s vast track record of treating the A’s like a cash register, refusing to spend money in order to maximize profits.
It’s worked for hockey, but that is only because the Golden Knights came out and instantly went to the Stanley Cup Finals and have been good ever since (and in fact just won the Cup).
If A’s leave, then New Expansion team likely for SF Bay Area probably in Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley if MLB is SMART.
NFL found out it was a huge mistake to have zero or only 1 team in LA market.
SF Bay Area is very rich, lucrative market if the A’s or another team
is provided for a real, rich businessman who will build a privately funded stadium, promote and market the team etc and
not fire sale its best , young players every 3-4 years like knucklehead John Fisher.
If Las Vegas gets the A’s then be careful what you wish for.
John Fisher will remind many Dodgers and other fans of Frank McCourt
who used the Dodgers as his personal ATM machine for Yachts, planes, many luxurious villas, vehicles, country club memberships,
But Frank was always poorf\ as a church mouse when asked to resign some of the Dodgers star players like Adrian Beltre or trade for players to help the Dodgers will a World Series or sign free agents.
Google McCourts’ public Divorce proceedings to find that he allegedly
spent well over 100 million of Dodgers team revenues/profits on
keeping up his jet set lifestyle.
He also refused to sign International free agents because he refused to spend the team money on the team.
Nevada should demand an independent forensic audit of the A’s and John Fisher before ageeing to any deal.
If not, it is very likely the Nevada taxpayers and fans will be” burned” by Fisher.
You do realize both LA teams are flops in the NFL right.
They can’t even sell out a game when they play eachother and they share a stadium.
Please use your eyes and the thing between the ears before posting,
rct – I wonder if some of the Raiders issues with attendance has to do with them playing on Sunday. Most vacationers probably leave on Sunday meaning the Raiders don’t get the benefit of casual fan or curious traveler. MLB and NHL have games all week.. would be interesting to see if there is a dip in Vegas Knights attendance on Sunday games. Just a thought most likely nothing to it
It has a moderate amount to do with that, but also, who the hell wants to waste half of their day in Vegas when the suns still up in a sub par stadium?
Hell, most people won’t even be up by the 1pm start time if they are vacationing there.
Its not a city for sports that have fixed starting times.
That marketing speech has not worked for the New Raiders stadium in Las Vegas. Raiders are 30th in NFL attendance
If am travelling to Vegas the last thing I am gonna do is go to a baseball game especially a AA or AAA team masquerading as an MLB team.
Possibly the dumbest take on the A’s. Since 1968 the A’s are 6th in winning percentage in MLB. Since the beginning of the Beane Era in 1999 they are 6th in winning percentage. That’s pretty damn consistent winning.
Your rudeness detracts from what ever it is you are saying.
You say things that don’t make sense because you do not have all the facts needed to be knowledgeable about this issue.
That is the NFL’s fault. They abandoned the 2nd largest TV and sporting market in the US. And, people on the West Coast have many entertainment options and beautiful weather.
The NFL has to rebuild and redevelop its fan base for 2 New Teams in LA.
Los Angeles remained without an NFL franchise from 1995 to 2015.
That is a long time to abandon such a huge market.
The market needs to be re developed.
And, the teams must be competitive and winners to attract the most fans.
The NFL bungled their move back into the LA market in a few ways
The NFL should have incentivized the Chargers to stay in San Diego and help them finance a new stadium there.
The Chargers spent 50+ years developing the San Diego market
which has grown considerably over the years.
The Chargers had a loyal and rabid fan following and were selling out their games in San Diego, San Diego is the 2nd largest city in California 1.3 million & over 3M in the County. (and the 8th largest city in the country)
The NFL screwed up by giving the Chargers the option to move to LA.
The Raiders had a huge fan base built up in LA from their time there.
The Rams also had a fan base in LA over 20 years ago.
It would have been smarter by NFL to have the Rams and Raiders share SOFI stadium in LA and get a new stadium financed for the Chargers in San Diego.
“Musical; chairs” with stadiums and fan bases hurt the NFL.
Chargers are running ads in San Diego begging Chargers fans to come back to the team (La Danian Thomlinson featured).
It is not working.
San Diego is a completely separate market and a rival to LA
Moving the Chargers to LA was like a stabbing San Diego NFL fans in their backs. It infuriated them. Most San Diego fans have abandoned the Chargers in LA and won’t watch or attend their games.
So the NFL has to re develop the LA market for essentially 2 new teams:
St Louis/LA Rams and San Diego Chargers (who have no base of fans in LA).
Meanwhile, the Raiders who were selling out in LA were shifted
to Las Vegas where they are 30th in attendance in the 40th Media market in the country instead of selling out in the 2nd largest media market?!
NFL NY suits really messed up there lol!
The don’t understand West Coast markets.
And it is costing them big bucks.
Fans are not transferring their loyalties so easily.
something similar could happen in Las Vegas with A’s attendance
and a team coming off a fire sale of its best young players
and a gutted farm system.
Good luck with that!
NFL MESSED UP BIGTIME.
RAMS AND RAIDERS SHOULD BE SHARING SO FI IN LA
(Raiders were drawing and selling out last time they were in LA)
‘CHARGERS SHOULD HAVE BUILT NEW STADIUM IN SAN DIEGO
(Chargers were selling out and drawing big in San Diego)
Vegas will take time to develop as an NFL market if ever.
@John-Holliday yeah a nightmare of foot traffic around surrounding stores. Can you imagine the increase in dollars spent -> tax revenue that the state will see because of all the extra foot traffic before the game.
Legislation should have done that off top. They don’t care. What I’d sincerely like to know is how the city of Las Vegas and the state of Nevada make money from this deal.
If Giants wouldnt give up their rights to Santa Clara for the A’s, an established historic franchise with deep bay area roots, why would they do so for a rando expansion team?
Kirsten: The Rams won the Super Bowl 2 seasons ago and the Chargers made the playoffs last term. There is a good reason why the NFL kept the Raiders from goin’ back to (southern) Cali.
Oakland was cheaper in the 1960s. Today, it’s an expensive crap hole. Nashville is a likely candidate.
Yoiur beloved Raiders couldn’t sell out a 92,000-seat Coliseum located adjacent to USC. Not only that, the Raiders courted the gangsta base so well that the FBI and the LAPD came down hard. Even civilized peoples know that you don’t f#&k with the LAPD.
The Chargers have a more legitimate claim to Los Angeles and that is more beneficial for the NFL as a whole.
I sincerely doubt that people in Vegas are going to ‘flock’ to see a historically bad team
===============================
They won’t want to see the As, but they will want to see whatever team they root for.. I’m a RS fan from the Bronx. And I like LV. So I will try to coincide my LV trips when the RS will visit. And there will be a whole of people just like me.
most people won’t even be up by the 1pm start time
=========================
Most BB games are played at night.
Let’s say you are a Yankee fan, transplanted to SD. If you were in LV for five days, would you not consider spending 3 hours watching a game against the As?
The last time I was in SF, I went to watch an Oakland/RS game. Why would it make any difference if they were in LV?
Since the beginning of the Beane Era in 1999 they are 6th in winning percentage.
=========================
Americans aren’t smart enough to know that or to look it up, or frankly, even to care. First make up your mind, and then maybe, if one is energetic, maybe actually do some research to see if you are right.
JB – So true. I have gone to Camden when I’ve traveled to Baltimore to watch the Angels play. When a team comes to Nashville, I will go to every Angels game I can make.
Doesn’t the Giants now have sole broadcasting rights with the A’s gone?. If they do, they could block a team from moving into their territory. It would be like the Orioles/Nats situation, which is kind of puzzling since the Orioles have been in Baltimore since the 1880’s and the Senators/Nationals on and off for nearly as long.
If Manfred wasn’t so interested in implementing his assanine rules into a game that was fine without them, he might want to look into Fisher intentionally tanking his team so he can move into a nice shiney new stadium paid by taxpayers, not by a selfish billionaire who doesn’t deserve it. What about the Baltimore/Washington TV rights debacle? Maybe he’d like to do his job and mediate a solution to that mess. Expansion is his dream. The talent has already been spread so thin that teams have been forced to use players who have been dfa’d more than once and players who have been playing for independent leagues. The great American past time is in disarray, to say the least, under manfred’s leadership.
Since Manfred lied about to congress a few years ago about keeping teams in their cities for economical growth they could lose their exemption. Barbra Lee is pushing for their exemption to be taken away since they lied. So there is a possibility MLB gives them a expansion team to take away the uproar.
Its by far the largest market and they already have a fully approved site for a ballpark.
There is more money in that area than any other market. MLB still needs more west coast teams.
So yes, its highly likely that if the As move the first expansion team will be Oakland.
That’s not how it works. Expansion team is granted by MLB and then a new stadium is built
The ballpark is already approved at Howard Terminal. If Fisher had not tried to change the terms at the very last moment they would be having photo ops with shovels in the ground right about now.
Eighty, its the 6th largest TV market and has over 9 million people in the Bay Area.
Kirsten, The Rams won the super bowl. They were 7th in attendance last season.
The Chargers are a different story. Like the As they have alienated their fanbase.
Even the Chargers drew both more total fans and a larger percentage of total available seats than the Raiders did last season.
Maybe try looking at the attendance figures before you try calling someone else out on it.
The current ‘Orioles’ are in fact the progeny of the St Louis Browns, no? Yes, Baltimore had a franchise way way long ago, but MLB was a series of musical chairs. Still doesn’t make Fisher less of a scumbag.
espn.com/nfl/attendance
The Rams were 5th in percentage of seats sold.
Knights drew 4% of their ticket sales from outside the Las Vegas area.
No way the Giants allow Oakland to get another team. They will become even more of a powerhouse when they scoop up the A’s leavings. I am hoping Portland gets a team but that is just because that is where I am located at the moment. I hate Seattle traffic and their fans trampled my 8 year old because Ichiro was shaking hands with people. First time I ever punched a woman square in the jaw. Will never go to another Mariners game. Their fans are worse than Boston’s!!
The A’s plan counts on 8k tourists coming in for every single game. The Raiders are drawing less than 10% from outside Las Vegas with 60% of that being tickets sold in California. The Knights have 4% of tickets sold to tourists.
The A’s won’t exceed what that other major sports teams are getting.
Question. Have you been to Las Vegas to see the Patriots play there?
According to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, the average stay in Las Vegas is 2 nights.
People go to conventions, to concerts, but mostly to gamble and party.
They don’t stay 5 days.
The last time I was in San Francisco we stayed a week.
What is the win percentage since Fisher became the managing partner in 2016? Before that Wolff was the managing partner and ran the team. Hint, they are not 6th.
No. The As are not gone and the Giants don’t have exclusive broadcast rights even if they do. The Giants can block a team from building a stadium in the west and south portions of the bay as they did when the As wanted to build in San Jose area.
Rsox, The stadium is already approved in Oakland. Fisher tried to change the terms at the last second because he thought he could get more money out of taxpayers in Las Vegas but everything was a go for Howard Terminal.
Zachary, what is their win percentage since Fisher took over managing the team in 2016?
There will be no NEW tax revenue. Just a transference of tax revenue from other areas and money not being soent in other businesses. The studies are conclusive. Stadiums do not create new or increased tax revenue for states.
They don’t. Politicians get their pockets lined and unions get short term jobs during construction but the state of Nevada will lose money in the long term.
The Giants don’t get a say in that. They can block a ballpark in the south end of the Bay Area but not an expansion team.
since opening day 2015
1 Los Angeles Dodgers 783-479 62.0% 8 11 1
2 Houston Astros 749-512 59.4% 7 14 2
3 New York Yankees 728-534 57.7% 7 6 0
4 Cleveland Guardians
Formerly: Cleveland Indians 699-559 55.6% 5 3 0
5 St. Louis Cardinals 688-572 54.6% 5 1 0
6 Tampa Bay Rays 688-576 54.4% 4 4 0
7 Boston Red Sox 683-579 54.1% 4 5 1
8 Chicago Cubs 679-581 53.9% 5 6 1
9 Atlanta Braves 658-600 52.3% 5 5 1
10 Milwaukee Brewers 656-606 52.0% 4 1 0
11 Toronto Blue Jays 650-612 51.5% 4 3 0
12 New York Mets 645-616 51.1% 3 2 0
13 Seattle Mariners 637-623 50.6% 1 1 0
14 San Francisco Giants 637-624 50.5% 2 1 0
15 Minnesota Twins 627-634 49.7% 3 0 0
16 Washington Nationals 622-637 49.4% 3 4 1
17 Oakland Athletics 607-656 48.1% 3 1 0
A lot of attendance numbers being thrown around about who draws what/where.
The Golden Knights finished both 12th in total attendance and average attendance in the NHL this past season.
The Raiders finished 31st in total attendance and 30th in average attendance
The Rams were 4th in attendance and 7th in average attendance while the Chargers were 19th in attendance and 11th in average attendance.
The Raiders averaged 62k fans per game in a stadium that holds 65k averaging about 3k empty seats per game. The Knight averaged 18k per game in an arena that holds about 18k so they regularly sell out their games. Vegas has embraced the NHL so well probably because the team was their own and not a relocated franchise. The Raiders may never get the fan base they had in Oakland. If the A’s could average what the Knights average per game i suppose they would have to consider that a win considering they currently play in front of more Possums than people…
I also think a *huge* part of the Golden Knights doing so well is because they’re an original Vegas team – not a retread that was bussed in after leaving another fanbase.
Winning helps, obviously, but I do think there’s something to be said for a homegrown team winning over the Vegas fans.
Its not a historically bad team. Its a currently bad team. The new stadium will bring investment in the on field product. They will probably never have a top payroll, but that never stopped them from competing before.
There is one GIANT elephant in the room that no one, and I mean no one seems to want to talk about: Las Vegas will soon be a dying city as climate change continues to make the weather there worse. Lake Mead is also drying up. What are they going to do? Funnel off the Colorado river until it is dead? Ship in water from the Great Lakes (no midwest state will approve that)? Why does NO ONE want to talk about this obvious impediment to Las Vegas’s continuation as a city? The city is way too big of an energy suck in an area and with a climate that can no longer support it.
Beane era doesn’t really matter in this case. What matters is the Fisher era. From 2016 to today.
Since Fisher took over day to day control of the team from Wolff, the A’s have a 539-562 record, good for 21st best record in baseball over that period.
Beane has not been involved in day to day baseball operations decision making since the end of the 2015 season according to interviews with Ken Rosenthal in 2019 and Tom Verducci on MLB Network in 2018.
They don’t.
.480 something win percentage Fisher era. That places them in bottom half of MLB in win percentage. That is not including this season.
This.
You’re leaving out a whole lot of moving to Oakland in there. You really do love omitting facts to push a bad narrative.
May I recommend a career in politics?
You aren’t going to Vegas to see a baseball game at night.
The issue with that is even the LA teams are only 6-9 games a year, and Angels fans don’t travel well for the 7 they get a year. It just doesn’t work on full scale for 81 games.
7th in attendence %.
The stadium is small. They are not filling out the stadium lol.
And the yankees are the old orioles. Things have changed since 1950. Teams could actually fail back then.
Golden Knights were walked in to the finals.by the league. If MLB wants Vegas to win. Theyll win
Is that the official word? They’re gonna tear down the Tropicana hotel? They should build it right next to Las Vegas Ballpark. There’s so much land out that way.
Manfred said from the owners meetings Tuesday that Oakland will be the frontrunners for an expansion team if the A’s move to Las Vegas.
See above.
John Henry,
First off, Las Vegas has a much smaller number of visitors than that. In 2022 38.8 million people visited Las Vegas. There has never been a year when Las Vegas had 50 million visitors. The peak was 42 million.
The average visit length and the purpose of the visit to Las Vegas is entirely different than traveling to NYC or LA or San Francisco or Chicago or Boston. The average stay in Las Vegas is 2 nights while the average of 5 nights in most major cities. Most visits to Las Vegas are purpose driven. Gambling, partying or events (concerts/music festivals, meetings, conferences), Of the 38 million visitors in 2022, 76% were Friday to Sunday.
The Raiders and Knights both get fewer people traveling to see their games in Las Vegas than the national average for other sport teams. People just do not go to Las Vegas to see sports. The National average for MLB teams is 12% of ticket sales coming from people outside the state they are located in. The Raiders are just under 10% and the Knights are 4%. Those numbers are from MLB, NFL and NHL official ticket distribution and do not include the secondary market, but they are representative of where game goers are coming from.
No one is flocking to Las Vegas to see a baseball game. No one that comes to Las Vegas will suddenly say, why don’t we go see a baseball game. Their visit is short and sports is just not on the itinerary.
If you spend any appreciable time in Las Vegas or know people that live there, locals avoid the strip. The only reason they go there is if they work there or visitors come to see them. Locals have been vocal in saying that location on the site of the Tropicana is a terrible place to put the ballpark. It will cause a traffic nightmare in an area that is already horrible to drive in.
I could add to this, but I have grown tired of correcting people when they say stupid things like what you posted.
The NFL didn’t release official attendance figures until 1992, so its anecdotal to quote attendance figures for the Los Angeles Raiders from 1980 to 1991. The Raiders left LA after the 1994 season and those last couple of season neither they nor the Rams were drawing well.
I can’t find anything on him saying that other than an article @deadspin suggesting that he should make the team leave the name and colors in Oakland and give Oakland the right of first refusal before deciding to expand elsewhere
Holy sheep dung Baseball, you just went off on a fact chain there. 18 posts? Overdosing on caffeine?
California takes 4.4M acre-feet of water. Arizona takes 2.8M, Mexico takes 1.5, Nevada takes 300,000 acre-feet. Are these conversations happening about Southern California or Phoenix continuing as a city?
I would imagine that you will be correct when the A’s do depart, although the broadcast rights and territorial rights are technically two separate things that often have different maps.
This Orioles franchise has only been in Baltimore since the 1954 season. The previous franchises in Baltimore have nothing to do with the current version. Moreover, the two eras of the Senators have nothing to do with the Nationals franchise. Why would they have anything to do with the current territorial rights setup?
Usually. The Rays were actually an outlier, building the Dome before they were granted a franchise.
In fairness, the Giants do as a franchise get a 1/30th say in any expansion franchise.
.
Beyond that, to the best of my knowledge the MLB has not confirmed whether, in the absence of an Oakland franchise, the Giants would get rights over the entire Bay Area.
MTG, that’s completely wrong. You really need to read the entire article when you Google things and seek out secondary and trinary sources.
That is how much they were entitled to of the first 7.5 million acre feet of mainstem water in the Lower Basin back in 2016.
So try again.
Manfred did on Tuesday. They don’t.
Thanks for the clarification, Pads Fans.
The Rays should just move to Montreal. South Florida was the absolute worst place for MLB teams. Granted the Rays stadium is quite possibly the poorest location of any stadium in the world but why have a baseball team when half the city’s population leaves in the summer? Doesn’t make sense. When I lived in Gainesville I did like being able to get Yankees tickets for pocket change. But you can see the Yankees all spring on the cheap if that’s the concern.
I guess you have forgotten how bad attendance was in Montreal. Think California is a tough place to get public funding for a ballpark? Try Quebec.
Does MLB really need more than thirty teams?
Personally, I don’t think there is enough serviceable talent out there to make expansion work without diluting the whole of baseball.
@Troy but hear me out here, cash number go up how can you say no?
Anybody fool enough to pay an MLB expansion fee under the current system deserves what they get after the newness wears off.
If the A’s do relocate, the Giants will have a claim to the entire Bay Area and will be able to block a new or relocated franchise. There are several cities that would be considered for expansion over the Bay Area in any case.
No they don’t.
If MLB is smart like the NFL (and this situation playing out in the SF Bay Area and Las Vegas is not giving me any confidence in MLB Commissioner and its 30 Owners) the MLB league will do what the NFL did in Los Angeles.
The league and its owners dictate the territories for franchise teams.
The NFL would not let the Rams have all LA to monopolize.
It was requiring 2 teams in LA either the Rams and Chargers
or Rams and Raiders.
SF Bay Area is too lucrative to leave to just one team,
It is bad business and untapped shared revenues for all 30+ teams.
Giants have only 1 vote out of 30 or more if expansion.
If this present Commissioner does not see it and/or did not do the financial math ,then the next Commissioner will see it and act.
I dunno.
The NFL makes more money than MLB so maybe it is just better managed and has better strategic and financial planning than MLB.
Las Vegas will be subsidized by MLB teams for years and years since that market is small, it will not sell out games (Raiders are 30th in NFL attendance) and John Fisher is not going to spend money on his own players and free agents etc..
No they won’t. The Bay Area will be first in line for an expansion team.
Never going to happen
I do feel bad for the people in San Jose. I was complaining about the potential move there (lol) because of the traffic and time commitment to drive down the peninsula, which I’m sure works both ways when they have to drive north for sporting events. Unfortunately most interest groups eventually capture the entities designed to regulate them, I think Manfred is just an upgraded sex bot with a couple chatGPT updates.
The Giants were given the market when they decided not to move to TB in the early 90’s. You expect them to just give it up?
Not really, though I would expect the government to stop giving MLB anti-trust exemptions if they’re going to purely run things for profit.
Don’t all companies run things purely for profit?
I’d like to think there’s some owners who care about their teams and do things to build a contender. I know the Pads and Mets aren’t doing well, but at least the owners did all they felt was right to build a WS team.The Braves and Astros also fit that category. The Ray’s are an enigma. Not a lot of money thrown around but an amazing ability to spot and build talent.
According to Bud Selig who served as Commissioner for years, former A’s Owner Walter Haas(Levis Strauss) gave up the 50% A’s territory to the Giants to save the Giants for SF Bay Area and to block them from moving to Tampa.
But, Selig stated it was always the A’s and Haas’s intention that
the A’s 50% of Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley would REVERT BACK TO THE A’S after the Giants built their new Stadium in SanJose.
The Giants never built their stadium in San Jose.
They built it in downtown San Francisco 90+ minutes away driving if traffic is just right. So the reason the A’s loaned their territory for the Giants did not come to fruition and the 50% territory should revert back to the A’s.
Commissioners have been very weak on that issue.
It could have been solved by Commissioner’s decree
and/or a vote of Owners like 20 years ago or even now.
Even “non-profits” like mega-churches whose clergy rides around in limos and health care organizations run things purely for profit.
Baloney. Do your research, Google is your friend. The local TV money alone pays for most of player salaries on its own before attendance, advertising, or merchandising come in. Same for the Dodgers, Angels, Braves, etc. See a common thread there?
The yankees do not run at a loss.
You haven’t posted a factual statement in around 4 months now.
Good luck on that, case. Honestly, when hasn’t the MLBrun things for profit? Even in the “good old days”, the owners were driven by $ first and foremost.
Making a deal with Fisher reminds me of the quote from Poor Richards Almanac ,
“He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas
Vegas should’ve waited for an expansion team .
This isn’t a good decision or choice by the legislature.
If they want Fisher, they will get him, but they may wish otherwise once they have him.
Fisher won’t live forever…
@NativeAmerican Promise?
Fisher is clearly just doing this for the resale value, there is no indication he has real interest in running a baseball franchise. See Gordon Gecko’s “cause it’s wreckable” speech for more information.
By the time he dies ,the A’s could be playing in Portland or Vancouver
If they do, I believe they’ll have moved the most times in bb history.
I think Fisher’s plan is to sell once the shovels hit the ground. He runs off to whatever island with his golden parachute and the new group and NV taxpayers are left with the bill.
They don’t care about the owner. They want a team.
They even wrote that into the bill. The funding is no longer tied to Fisher or the A’s. Any MLB team can claim the funding if Fisher fails to secure the money he will need to build the stadium and pay for his part of the infrastructure improvements around the stadium.
That’s the smartest thing I’ve heard a legislature do in….forever.
This is huge for Nevada. The legislators and governor see this as increasing the tax base, bringing in union jobs, and a legacy marker. In just a few years they’ve become a player in major league sports.
I usually brings jeans with me to LV since it can get cool-ish in the evening.
It didn’t increase the tax base. All it does is move money from other businesses to the A’s.
@steph Nothing a retractable roof stadium and night games can’t mitigate.
@stephcurry You fail to consider how wide politicians spread their cheeks for money at the expense of the environment. They will destroy small communities in order to supply vegas with water, if they need to do it.
Aside from the 8 representatives from rural districts that voted against it. I guess they don’t want their taxpayers extorted to further enrich billionaires, bizarre.
In the meantime, Oakland is losing it’s tax base, it’s union jobs, and it’s legacy marker which is much more substantial than a team in Nevada
The As employ 200 people in the Bay Area. 200.
That is a tired old smokescreen proven to be false by the most respected
sports economists.
It will pass – you can BET on it.
signed Pete Rose.
Sad day for Oakland. For whatever reason, money or else, the city of Oakland was not able to compromise building the “sacred” stadium… And if it is as simply as Oakland was not going to sacrifice tax payers money to keep the A’s in town. Oakland has many other priorities to tend to…
Being form California been to a lot of
Athletics games and both the current stadium location and the ones they proposed would have done little for the team. Oakland is just not a great area anymore
I think the athletics moving to Vegas is a great deal for the team. Oakland is a subpar city over ran with homeless and crime. Not a great safe area to take in a game at.
Vegas will offer many things; a safer city; no state income tax for players etc. I think everything being equal more players would sign and sign cheaper as free agents to play in Vegas compared to Oakland.
Generally speaking, crime is a city problem, not a state problem. Most of the rural areas have relatively less crime than the big cities. And that doesn’t matter if it is a blue or red state.
You do realize that both the number of homeless and the crime rates are higher in Las Vegas don’t you?
Tucker Carlson doesn’t allow him to use the internet, his compound only has a land line.
That’s actually false. Their is more crime and homelessness in Oakland than Las Vegas.
@Young, there is an estimated 14k homeless population in Vegas opposed to 10k in Oakland. Oakland has higher violent crime rate at 5.65 per 1k people opposed to Vegas at 4.89. As far as property crime goes Vegas is 25.45 to Oakland’s 5.16 per 1k people. Yes that is not a typo 25 to 5. Which I guess makes sense with all the gambling and financial desperation it likely causes in many. On top of traditional crime rates that are in every big city.
But to some up it up, Oakland is more violent. While Vegas has more homeless and property crime.
“That’s actually false. Their is more crime and homelessness in Oakland than Las Vegas.”
Completely wrong. It’s amazing how confidently wrong you can be despite already being on the internet, where you can easily look up how wrong you are.
Its sad that you can’t read RCT.
But isn’t the internet a place for broad generalizations that gloss over the incredibly complicated reality of urban politics? Oakland has plenty of areas that both financially and culturally put Las Vegas to shame… and areas that genuinely scare me a little when I’m walking around after dark.
Every where I’ve looked it points to Oakland having more crime and homeless than Las Vegas.
Where are you getting those numbers from?
But to some up it up, Oakland is more violent. While Vegas has more homeless and property crime.
=========================
I never understood why this was ever a concern for fans. LV has very little crime around the major casinos, and I doubt there will be any near the stadium. I heard the same meaningless argument about Yankee Stadium 15-20 years ago. There are a gazillion cops outside YS on game night.
Further, people don’t get mugged in crowded areas. I use to hear that about the subways. If I can’t get a seat, I am very unlikely to get mugged.
and areas that genuinely scare me a little when I’m walking around after dark.
=============================
That’s probably every city in the world. I can walk in alomst all parts of the Bronx in the afternoon, and never think twice. I can walk on major boulevards like Fordham Road and the Grand Concourse from 7 AM-9 PM, and never think twice.
Most cities are only dangerous in a few sections, and in the off hours.
Tell that to someone who drives by Oakland stadium it is lined wall to wall
It could actually be both as being right. People often put out statistics that are technically the truth, but are misleading.
One city may have more crimes committed, but also significantly more people causing less crime per capita.
The FBI compiles statistics.
@El Duderino, that is why I used the per capita statistics
And they are both right. Oakland has more violent crime, which is obviously the worst type of crime. Vegas has way more propert crime and a bit more homeless. Which neither of those surprise me. Many people go there chasing $ or dreams and succumb to all the vices that are plentiful there.
I think if comparing stats with any major cities they both have their pros and cons. They ll also b influenced by what the city has to offer or lack thereof.
@BaseballisLife: The dude I’m replying to is wrong, though. Vegas has more homeless and more crime. He also used the wrong form of “there”. I find it odd that people will make confident assertions that are wrong when the facts are literally at your fingertips.
Vegas does not have more crime or homeless than Oakland.
Again Vegas has a homeless population if roughly 14k to Oakland 10k. That is 4k larger.
Overall crimes Vegas has more due to crazy high property crime #s. Oakland however has higher violent crime rate. Neither type of crime is good, but violent crimes are clearly worse.
Sorry you do not like the statistics, but they are what they are.
That 14,000 number is for southern Nevada not just Las Vegas. Southern Nevada region is made up of four counties.
The 14k number is for the Clark County. https://www.clarkcountynv.gov
Alameda County, where Oakland resides is 9747.
Keep in mind those are the people that have received services of some kind, not all homeless.
Clearly Clark County, NV has many more homeless than Alameda County, CA
@youngTank, those stats are for the city of Las Vegas just as Oakland’s are for the city. And there is not much in Southern Nevada other than Vegas, sand, and an enormous dam.
You re throwing darts here dude and missing the board. You made an assumption and you were wrong. Someone took 2 mins pulled facts and laid them out. Just take the L and view it as a lesson learned.
No the facts are Las Vegas has a homeless population of 5,645 and Oakland has a homeless population of 9,747. And Oakland has more violent AND property crime than Las Vegas.
Tank you just gave the numbers for Alameda County California homeless, not Oakland, and made up some garbage for Las Vegas.
They gave you the link for Clark County. Use it son. That way you don’t look like a youngidiot. Clark County is southern Nevada. Its the entire southern tip.
Even per capita, Clark County has a higher homeless population than Alameda County.
As someone else pointed out it also has half the median household income.
Poorer, more homeless, 150% more robberies and aggravated assaults per capits, and 500% property crimes per capita in Las Vegas
But they did have 11 less violent crimes last year so at least that was better.
Glad we are not talking about the year that whacko killed all those people at the country music festival because then all of the above was worse in Las Vegas.
The link to Clark County government where you got that number originally is RIGHT THERE in my post. You claimed the 14k number is for southern Nevada and Clark county makes up all of southern Nevada.
Alameda county is where Oakland is located. As I stated that 9747 is Alameda county, not Oakland proper.
You have to stop arguing about things you have been shown to be wrong about several times. That is how you get muted.
Right here usafacts.org/articles/which-cities-in-the-us-have-…
So you are using confirmed homeless from a Google search for Vegas yet ignoring the estimate part also noted where you got that figure. Yet you use an estimate for Oakland. That is what is called shaping a narrative or cherry picking.
There is a reason that homeless stats are estimated, as it is a hard population to account for. And BTW the known figure for homeless in Oakland for 2022 that is not estimated was 3,337. Which again is lower than 5645.
I have done no such thing.
Here’s three sites
usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/cities-with…
usafacts.org/articles/which-cities-in-the-us-have-…
forumdaily.com/en/v-kakix-gorodax-ssha-zhivet-bols…
All three state that Oakland has a homeless population of 9,747. And Las Vegas homeless population is 5,645.
He posted the actual Clark County site and you are posting some website? Are you for real?
All of them are wrong. They gave you the actual sites for the government entities that do the actual numbers and you are postin three websites that are NOT the actual government sites. You know that just makes you look worse, right.
Alameda County has 9747 homeless out of a population of 1.6 million.
alamedaca.gov/CITYWIDE-PROJECTS/Homeless-Initiativ…
Clark County has a homeless population of 14,000 with a population of 2.2 million.
clarkcountynv.gov/news_detail_T28_R846.php
Those are the official numbers from those counties.
Anything else you say just makes you look worse. So stop.
The site you gave for Oakland is actually for the city of Alameda not Oakland. And the two numbers I gave are both the point in time counts.
You must 15 years old and on the short bus. I have no more time for your special brand of stupid.
The city of Alameda has a population of 76k. You really think any city in the US has a homeless rate of 1/7??
No you’re being deceptive. The numbers I gave are the POINT-IN-TIME statistics. The 14,000 number for Las Vegas you’re giving is the amount of people who have been homeless at one point during the year.
Tigers, Just mute him and move on to people worth talking with.
Its an estimate you buffoon. They are HOMELESS, they do not have addresses, utility bills, etc… There are no definitive statistics like a census no do they do point in time statistics. The OAK # which u to keeps referencing comes from the same place. So even if it was what you are falsely proclaiming both #s are derived by the same source. Hence they would b measured within the same parameters.
Seriously you made a mistake making a false assumption. Know you are just being flat out ignorant and stubborn trying to back your fakse claim.
I’m done with this topic.
The Clark county site literally calls it a CENSUS.
The 5,645 number is the amount of homeless at the point the census was taken. 14,000 is the estimated amount of people who have at one point over the whole year were homeless.
Yungdumas, read what it says on the link he gave. “The 2022 Alameda County EveryOne Counts! Point-in Time Count”
Notice the Alameda COUNTY part of that? 9747 homeless in Alameda COUNTY.
Every post you make digs you deeper and deeper. Just STFU.
The number you are quoting from Clark County, NOT Las Vegas is literally the number that were in a shelter. Read the study. Now read the same information for Alameda County. LESS people were in shelters.
Never mind. I will just mute your dumas. Not worth even seeing the BS you post.
That number is not just a shelter. It’s says living in shelters OR on the streets.
LV has a homeless and crime problem that they Governor said Nevada was too broke to fund,
@StephCurry, we don’t really have true capitalism as it is. Definitely don’t have a free market free of outside influences. I don’t like getting even remotely political, but I agree with your comment here. And in my opinion both parties have been corrupted by outside influences such as big banks, Wall St, and big business.
I’d say our government is more of a corporate oligarchy than a democracy.
no homeless or crime in Vegas, thank the lord.
L.m.f.a.o.
Even the Nevada legislature says in the public hearings that it is rampant.
Los leebos, That’s sarcasm, right?
Las Vegas is a high crime city.
Walk or drive outside the strip and you see many run down areas and homeless everywhere.
Which is why a Cruise Line is negotiating with the city of Oakland to take over Howard Terminal? Because cruise lines always put terminals in the worst areas.
I sure won’t miss those drums banging in the stands all game.
I think they’re included in the bill language.
Now for the rest of the story.
The amendments added mean that the A’s will now have to pay the same 9% entertainment tax paid on everything sold at the park and on tickets that other venues on the strip pay. Instead of that money going to the A’s, it will go into the general fund for the State of Nevada.
The A’s no longer will be exempt from sales tax on materials used to build the ballpark. That was $40-50 million that was going directly into Fisher;s pockets.
The A’s will also be required to pay prevailing wage for stadium workers. I cannot begin to explain how much this will add to their costs.
The A’s will have to provide their employees with at least 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave a year at a rate of at least 55 percent of an employee’s salary.
SB1 also limits the location to the Tropicana site. The A’s will be required to build there and only there.
The team will also have to contribute half of the infrastructure costs. Prior to that amendment, Bally’s would have paid for all the infrastructure costs and the A’s would have paid additional lease costs. Now they will have to pay half pf the estimated $190 million in infrastructure costs upfront.
The A’s will have to donate 25,000 tickets to charities and youth baseball programs in the region. They will also have to donate an undetermined amount to support local youth baseball programs and make their players available for weekly appearances in support of those programs.
The A’s will also have to donate a minimum of $1.5 million or 1 percent of the team’s ticket revenue generated by the stadium project once the stadium is completed and operational to community programs in the region. That includes all events held at the stadium, not just baseball games.
As well they will have to fund scholarships in the sports industry at local colleges and provide internship opportunities.
Now the bill goes to the Assembly where the speaker has already said there are several amendments above and beyond the ones added by the Senate that he will push to have added to the bill.
This is far from over.
That is 25,000 tickets per year.
Thanks, that was very helpful.
Just wait. A’s, like Raiders, will not sell out in LV
Leaving huge opening for Fisher to claim he does not have money to pay for that stuff.
And, Nevada taxpayers will be left holding the bag
And layoffs of Police officers will follow to subsidize the A’s in LV
Ahh “community programs”. Next they create their own local charity to donate towards to write off the expense. Then they need to fund the salaries of their players’ wives that are heads of those BS charities. Because somebody has to “donate” to the tax write offs for the players.
But, good on Vegas for not folding like many cities do. At least they got what they wanted.
That charity loophole has been a huge issue since FDR. When they pulled the books on some of those fake political fundraising organizations claiming they were supporting Trump’s campaign they showed that the “nonprofits” were spending well over 50% of the donated funds on salaries for themselves and the rest were shady contracting deals with friend’s companies that didn’t actually do much.
Existing community programs.
@Case, sadly most charities run with a high overhead. United Way for example used to spend 90 cents on the dollar on “salaries and expenses” of running their charity(business).
I try to research them but it can be difficult with all the misinformation out there. Still, even a high overhead charity bothers me less than an an “Americans for a better tomorrow” type of shill charity that just spreads economic propaganda favoring the wealthy.
Grifters gotta grift.
websoulsurfer1 hour ago
Now for the rest of the story.
===============================
That you for this. Way, way too many people make decisions on the move based on whether they are democrats or republicans, and either hate or love rich people. And many have -0- knowledge of the details.
This looks like a fine two-way deal and exemplifies the benefits of a public/private partnership.
IRT the $380M, do you know if this a fiscal outlay by LV/Nevada, or is part of this a simple loan?
From the most current version of the bill and articles in the Nevada Independent and other sources, it looks like a combination of the state, Clark County and the city. $180 million in transferrable tax credits from the state, $120 million in construction bonds from the county and $80 million bonds from the city.
With the amendments made it is better, but will still cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. Something to keep in mind is that the A’s are trying to say that 81 games a year they will draw 8k fans to the ballpark each game that come from out of state. The Raiders drew 60k out of state fans. over a full season. The A’s are claiming they will draw 640k. If that doesn’t happen, the economics of this collapse.
Those bonds are to be paid back from taxes on sales at the stadium including tickets over a 30-year period and during that time the A’s would not be paying property taxes, so it was vitally important that on top of sales tax the A’s are responsible for also collecting the 9% entertainment tax that the other businesses on the Strip pay.
The final cost to Nevada taxpayers will be upwards of $500 million. This articles lays out why pretty clearly even for laymen like me. fieldofschemes.com/2023/04/24/19883/as-seeking-meg…
The $380 million funding bill is not specific to the Athletics. Should Fisher fail to get the money necessary to complete the rest of the project, the package could be used for another MLB franchise that wishes to relocate, or even an expansion team.
The A’s still need to come up with funding for the $1.2 billion in construction costs and the $95-100 million in infrastructure costs that are their responsibility. Fisher does not have the capital needed to build the stadium himself. His net worth is $2.2 billion of which $1.6-$1.7 billion is the A’s and the San Jose Earthquakes soccer team.
Unlike California, because they are involved in gambling that involves the team in Nevada casinos and associated businesses are not allowed to be sponsors of the ballpark. They cannot even buy luxury suites or tickets and give them away.
The Assembly is likely to add amendments and then it will go back into a joint committee to hammer out the details. Then it will go to Governor Lombardo for him to sign the bill.
WRONG….WRONG…..WRONG
We dont have any state, city, or county income taxes….. in NEVADA
IT WILL COST US NOTHING IN TAXES
Yes it will. It has Nevada on the hook from State General tax fund revenues if there is a shortage of revenues coming in from the A’s games which you can set your watch to if John Fisher is involved, then this deal will go south for Nevada taxpayers.
They cannot even buy luxury suites or tickets and give them away.
============================
That’s insane. If someone on the As wants to throw a game, I cannot imagine in any possible way, that the MGM owning box seats will have anything to do with that. Every casino in LV should own multiple season tickets for the guests.
They can’t. Gambling is the lifeblood of Las Vegas and they don’t want even the appearance of impropriety.
There are casinos that don’t accept sports betting that theoretically could, but not if they are owned by a company that does in other casinos.
You are not very bright are you John?
MLB is already in bed with gambling as far as Bally Sports and all the sports betting commercials. They even give parlay updates during the game and advertise sports betting shows on the channels.
Yet they say betting is not involved in baseball. Pete Rose says, yeah, right from the outside looking in.
Joe: any public money towards stadiums is a waste of taxpayer money
Suppose LV was to use public funds to pay for a light show in downtown LV? That was a heck of a draw for the downtown area.
paying for a light pale in comparison to the cost of any sports stadium.
Man, if you read between the lines the opportunity for graft there is immense. I wonder how they’ll convince the rural district representatives to further burden their taxpayers for LV development projects. Hopefully they make deals that benefit the communities instead of the interest groups that paid for their campaigns and connections.
The A’s history is pretty fun. Don’t know if there’s a book on the subject, but particularly their departure from Kansas City in the late 60’s is colorful and hilarious. KC actually offered to build the A’s a brand new stadium with public money, but Charlie Finley moved the team to Oakland anyway, over such far bigger cities as Seattle, San Diego, and Dallas.. After a Missouri senator threatened to remove baseball’s antitrust exemption, MLB quickly expanded into KC, San Diego and Dallas within a few years. They drew almost no one for years, and most owners were convinced Finley chose Oakland to spite the league. They’ve drawn 2m fans exactly once since 2005. It’s time. The Bay Area isn’t really that into baseball anyway, and there certainly aren’t enough fans for two MLB teams.
COMPLETELY FALSE STATEMENT OF OPINION.
The A’s drew fans in the middle of the league averaging 14th in baseball for most of their time in Oakland.
And, the A’s drew much better than “top ten” in MLB when they had good ownership that worked in “good faith” to put winning, contending ballclubs on the field.
SF Bay Area (12 Counties) 9.2 Million people
Las Vegas Greater Area 2.2 Million people
Yearly GDP SF Bay Area(includes SF, Oakland, San Jose) 550 Billion dollars
Yearly GDP Greater Las Vegas Area 136 Million dollars
TV Markets San Francisco Bay Area 6th in USA
TV Markets Greater Las Vegas Area 40th in USA
LA, Anaheim, San Diego = 3 Thriviing, well run MLB clubs that all draw
large crowds and make plenty of cash.
John Fisher is MLB’s the worst MLB Owner at the present.
Some would say Fisher is a worse owner than Frank McCourt who
siphoned off Dodgers revenues to support his and his wife’s lavish lifestyle
and refused to pay/resign the Dodgers own farm developed players
(Adrian Beltre and others), refused to approve trades for players who could help the Dodgers win pennants and refused to sign free agents.
McCourts Divorce Court records found him siphoning off huge amounts of Dodgers team revenues for jets, houses, yachts etc.
Las Vegas: Welcome to the Dodgers former nightmare!
great use of public funding.
Nevada is a lot better at spending public funds wisely than California. The public doesn’t even pay state tax. Sales tax yes, state tax no.
A state sales tax is a state tax. I think you mean income tax. And with a tourist driven state where the average salary is like 1/2 of California, an income tax isn’t as meaningful as a sales tax.
Not sure how that equates to better spending though. There isn’t a government in existence that doesn’t suck at adequately allocating public funds. Bigger the govt, bigger the waste. So it makes sense California has greater wasteful spending. It’s more a matter of what meaningful projects are getting any dollars. California and Nevada do a good job at that, I mean getting funding to some good projects
I moved from California to Nevada. It’s not even close what the state takes. And Nevada does a much better job spending my money. There is no comparison.
Okay, well that’s good for you. I’m considering buying a finca in Central America. Both situations are good for us but that’s just it, it’s for us.
I’m talking about the population of the state as a whole. A a sales tax takes more from Nevada tax payers making 44k on average/ year because more of their pay check goes towards taxed goods.
We can go back and forth on which place is less doodoo for taxes. But, at the end of the day they are all doodoo and taxes come with trade offs. Gone are the days of $500 hammers, just more subtle a grift. Nobody is better, everyone is bad.
SOO glad you are out of California. You are the person we wanted to leave, so thank you. Now can you take a few more morons with you?
HEY, wait a minute…. why did you send the Californians to NEVADA?
What did we do to you?
Sales tax in Oakland is two percent higher. I pay much less in property taxes here than I ever did in California. You guys are making stuff up.
I’m thrilled I left. Thank God I’m out of that place. You don’t know any better.
About moving to Nevada, I Totally get it. But I don’t vote for the same policies I fled.
Why people vote for the same policies I fled, I’ll never know.
It’s great that you’re happy in Nevada, but the comparison between their spending and California’s is apple to oranges. California’s budget is approaching $300 billion while Nevada’s is $26 billion. With a budget of that size, blowing several hundred million of public money on building a stadium for a terrible baseball team run by a billionaire who refuses to spend his own money seems like a really bad idea.
Just don’t send him to Florida. We have enough idiots here.
Nevada doesn’t have 100 constituencies that they have to report to. As long as they throw a bone to the unions, and don’t annoy the casino owners, they can do what they want.
Nevada went for Bernie over Hillary so maybe the unions there actually go to bat for the workers.
They make up for it with sales taxes, higher property taxes, junk fees everywhere just like Texas.
Houston Chronicle crunched numbers and found that the average Texan
pays more State taxes than the average Californian
Link???
chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texans-pay-mo…
Wake me up when this is over, either they move and get the stadium or they don’t. These stories are the most tiresome back and forth bit of greedy owner crap in sports.
Even after the bill is passed, it’s not a certainty that Fisher can get the stadium done. He doesn’t have the money to do it himself and would have to borrow against the A’s and the San Jose Earthquakes to get it done. Since the agreement calls for him to pass ownership of the stadium and the land it sits on to a Stadium Authority, he cannot borrow against the stadium or any income it might produce.
The lack of certainty that he can come up with the money is likely why the Senate changed the bill to say that the funding is available for any MLB team that wants to move there or for an expansion team. Its not tied to the A’s at all.
John Fisher will likely sell the A’s to Sin City Baseball, a Las Vegas-based group consisting of Ben Navarro, Frank Fertitta III, Lorenzo Fertitta, Soo Kim, and the Maloof family, for $2..35 billion.
So about 50% more than the team is worth?
The team is worth about $1.18 billion, so twice what the team is worth.
So the Governor of Nevada TOLD The same LEGISLATORS a few weeks ago
that NEVADA IS BROKE AND HAS NO MONEY FOR: HOMELESS, MENTAL HEALTH, SCHOOL AND EDUCATIONAL FUNDING, HEALTH SERVICES?!.
Then, John Fisher and the A’s come “corporate panhandling” for hundreds of millions of dollars in Nevada taxpayer subsidies?!
And the stadium deal has very specific language that if A’s revenues do not cover
the A’s portion of stadium obligations, then THE TAXPAYERS OF NEVADA ARE ON THE HOOK FOR ANY SHORTAGE OF FUNDS?!
Good Luck with that!
A’s corporate CPA will just show losses since games will not be selling out
and construction and relocation costs will be high.
SONG FOR NEVADA TAXPAYERS IN HONOR OF THIS STADIUM “DEAL”. with John Fisher and the A’s
Which Owner is worse??! Former Dodgers Owner OR John Fisher of the A’s?!
“Taken Again by” Jerry Jeff Walker
youtube.com/watch?v=KJKpp71zyO0
The Dodgers Debacle with Frank McCourt
law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2011/08/the-dodgers-…
See Also, Why Frank and Jamie McCourt Ruined the Los Angeles Dodgers and ended up in Bankruptcy Court.termpaperwarehouse.com/essay-on/Why-Frank-and-Jami…
SEE ALSO Worst Owner in Sports History, How Frank McCourt Ruined the Dodgers & Made a Fortune Doing it IS THIS PRESENT AND THE FUTURE OF THE A’S?!
youtube.com/watch?v=Kuzj98TCznEhttps://www.youtube…
You don’t follow Nevada politics much.
Ironically, the Raiders did this to Oakland.
Got to love how billionaires think government handouts to the public are the bane of society while seemingly always have their own hands out
Certain politicians love corporate welfare over helping actual people.
Remember that when you vote rather than buying their baloney again.
People in Nevada who need food, housing or health care can starve, freeze or die and there is still no money to help them.
But, a billionaire needs something for free and suddenly the tax dollars reappear.
Something, something “freedum!”
Part of the bill is an amendment that would direct funding from the stadium to a state homeless initiative. The way it would work is IF the A’s sell out 100% of their games and hold an average of 2 events at the stadium per month that also sell out the 30k seat stadium, then over the next 30 years they will fund the states homeless initiative to the tune of $45 million total.
LMBAO!!!!!!
The A’s are not selling out 100% of their games in LV.
The Raiders are 30th in NFL attendance.
Nevada is already not looking good on that 700M deal back stopped by their State.
Nobody is freezing in Nevada. Might die of heat stroke , but I’ll tell you of one A hole that I knew . White guy used to live in Tucson . Made his way to Las Vegas . Had a teen daughter both did and sold drugs they got busted . Somehow dad A hole lived under a bridge for years . Till his Elderly mom got him to come home now the guy who is White works at Home Depot like nothing happened . I got this story from his sister who I use to fool around with . This dope can’t stop a stadium being built .
Honestly, this sounds like a success story. Homeless drug addict gets himself cleaned up and gets a job. This is a bad thing?
People in Nevada who need food, housing, healthcare… need to get a job like the rest of us here.
Casinos and the mining industries get taxed heavily and build shelters and programs for the so-called “Needy”…. but they dont want to seek help or get off drugs.
You have to want to help yourself……. stop begging for help and not be lazy
That’s true everywhere, JHH. When I lived in DC, I was hit up by a “homeless” woman for money, the same woman I had bought lunch for months prior. Instead, this time I offered to help her fill out a job application. She shouted every cuss word you could think of at me. We’ve made it too comfortable to not work in America.
Disclaimer: Before all the BHLs start screaming at me through their keyboards, I understand the mental illness component and that’s a different situation than what I’m talking about.
40% of homeless have a mental health issue, a substance abuse issue, or both. Its the largest group of homeless.
30% are parents.with children and 65% of those are single parents.
18% are children under the age of 18 that are not with a parent.
.
“Stop begging for help and don’t be lazy but if you are a billionaire I will lick your sack and hand you $380 billion.”
OK, Footstool.
YES. ! I need that move ASAP F Oakland. . Somewhere I grew to hate the fan base the stadium, stupid dogs in the stadium , Some camera man that only shows young boys , Glen Kuiper . The whole lot needs a revamp . Nobody is selling the team . What we lose is losers stuck in there ways . Who wants to listen to some dork in a empty stadium yell Let’s go Oakland for 3 hrs . Well now they’re going to VEGAS . Forget you Oakland .
As I read this was chanted at the A’s game tonight. SELL THE TEAM!
That “sell the team” chant came during a Reverse Boycott when 27,700 or so showed up to the Coliseum — largest home attendance for the A’s so far this season.
Reparations ? Or are they just being held hostage for 10 years of taxes, for nothing ? Just a quick drive over the bay bridge, and baseball is there. What did the Raiders have to pay in hostage money to leave ?
Everyone has seen the movie casino, so of course there would be no problems going to Vegas as long as the skids were greased. The sooner the better. Spending more money on the team is good for everyone.
More free cash for a few rich guys from guys who say no “socialism”! Why is OK for rich guys to get free cash? As a Conservative it is bizarre that those who think they are “conservatives” clap and clap when taxpayer cash goes to a few. If taxpayers pay they own. They own the team. Just like with the Packers, countless soccer teams and how it used to be for teams like the O’s. Enjoy getting blackmailed again in ten years people of Nevada. NO SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH!
Call it what you will but this is a primary function of our elected officials: directing tax revenues to projects that bring value to constituents. It’s an investment, right? They are projecting the overall value from increased tax revenues and general economic expansion will provide greater value than the initial investment.
If you don’t like it.. oh well. It is not new, it is not uncommon and it is not going away. Areas that do it well provide great value and have bustling local economies. Areas that don’t invest their tax revenues wisely just decay.
@CKinSTL. Would be interesting if true, but the evidence does not support the argument that subsidizing sports teams is the best way or even a good way to bring value to constituents. Having professional sports teams is often more about prestige than about economics and development. Note that LV was the fastest growing metro BEFORE it had any major league (NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL) teams. Also, when LA did not have a NFL team, life or the economy in LA did not suffer.
Most taxpayers/constituents are not fans. They may be casual spectators but are not fans. The presence or absence of a sports team will have little effect on their lives.
Make the right payments to the right people can always get a bill through Nevada legislature
I’m opposed to government financed stadiums.
Nevada Aces!
If Fisher changes the name the expansion team that will be in Oakland by 2028 or 2029 could then be the Oakland Athletics.
Doubtful the team name changes.
That is the only thing they have going for them.
Team gutted of quality players in a fire sale.
Minor league system in disarray.
An Owner who has been terrible in Oakland and does not invest revenue sharing, team revenues or tv money back into the team and players.
The AAA team playing in LV may be better than the current A’s roster.
Oakland will never get another team, especially not an expansion franchise. Too many other cities are inline ahead of Oakland to get a new team
I’d approve a move to Tennessee as long as they would call the team the Nashville Cats…
Oakland will never get another team. When they great teams in the 70’s and early 90’s they were always in the bottom in attendance.
False. Oakland has shown they will come out and support the team when ownership is committed as well. Look at the Haas family years – including the early 90s. Late 80’s to early 90’s, attendance was great. The 70’s you mention was under Finley who wanted to move the team to Denver…
When Walter Haas bought the A’s in August 1980, their attendance was 28th in MLB. The next season they were 7th. From 1981 through 1995 while the Haas family owned the team, the team’s total attendance ranked 11th in MLB.
From 1981 to 2022 the A’s have had attendance over 2 million 12 times in 33 seasons. They peaked at 2.9 million in 1990. Over that time period they rank 17th in total attendance.
Fans in Oakland show up when the ownership gives them something to show up for.
Nice! Bringing the receipts.
A’s fans Jam the Coliseum demanding that Owner John Fisher “Sell theTeam”
twitter.com/BenRossTweets/status/16688117781539184…
MLB should step in and force Fisher to sell the A’s.
He will be the same bad owner if they allow him to go to Las Vegas
and run the team into the ground in Las Vegas also.
Pretty sure that playing in a 10k seat ballpark for 3 years with a TV deal half or less what he was being paid in Oakland, all while having to fork over huge chunks of money to build the stadium that Fisher will have to sell the team.
I keep seeing people on here trying to say that Oakland is poor and filled with crime.
The area that the team draws fans from is one of the wealthiest in the nation.
THE singular wealthiest town in America, Orinda, is a suburb of Oakland. The median household income in the CITY of Oakland is $80,143. In Alameda County its $112, 017. In the East Bay area they draw fans from its the highest of any team in the nation at $115,712. THE HIGHEST OF ANY TEAM. That includes the Giants who are located in San Francisco which has a median household income of $126,187 but the cities south of San Francisco along the peninsula are not as high as the cities surrounding Oakland in the East Bay.
The median household income in Clark County Nevada, the area that makes up the Las Vegas metro area, is $64,210. The city of Las Vegas its $61,356.
When it comes to crime, in Alameda County both the violent crime rate (2.48) and overall crime rate (21..88) is lower then Clark County (5.76 and 32.62). Its actually lower than the California averages.
In Oakland proper the violent crime rate, murders and rapes, is higher but overall crimes is lower. In Las Vegas proper the robbery and aggravated assault rate is 1.5 times higher than Oakland proper. Property crimes like burglary and car theft are 5 times higher. The area that makes up The Strip has the highest number of aggravated assaults and robberies in the state of Nevada.
In San Diego the East Village area where Petco Park was built had the highest crime rate in the county. By far. You didn’t want to walk there at night alone. Now its lower than the county as a whole.
Oakland CAN support a team. They have both the money and the population. What they DON’T need is John Fisher. Let him move to Las Vegas. Oakland may have a new expansion team before the A’s stadium in Las Vegas is even completed.
When this is all said and done, if the A’s move their revenue will drop by a substantial amount. Sports economists are saying that they may not get a local TV deal and if they are able to land one, in this TV climate it will be less than $20 million per year compared to the average of $41 million they have on their deal in Oakland through 2032. That their average attendance in Las Vegas will be less than 10k until the new stadium is finished for the 2028 or 2029 season and around 21,000 after the new stadium opens, far below the 30k capacity of their ballpark.
More later. Heading to Petco.
Nevada… 49th in education. No money for a fix… but 380+ million to bail out a billionaire MLB owner. Total idiocy.
Weird how many people here seem to want to white knight for the people of Nevada like they were somehow just robbed blind.
Just because a place is a hockey town doesn’t mean it’s gonna support a baseball team.
Adios Oakland, hello Vegas. Nothing will stop the move now. Sorriest ownership in the game gets a free ride from the Commissioner and the other owners. The other owners can’t wait to get this settled and the Rays stadium issue resolved. They want the mega bucks they will get for two or more expansion franchises. The rich get richer and then raise ticket prices and concessions and parking prices too.
Two things stand in the stadiums way right now. Lombardo’s signature and Fisher’s ability to actually get the money together to build the stadium. He does not have the money himself, so will have to borrow it and cannot borrow against the stadium since after it is built he will not own it, the stadium authority will.
Lombard will sign the bill even though it had amendments in it that were introduced as individual bills and that he vetoed while saying the state could not afford them.
Hopefully they build a stadium that’s more than 30k seats. That’s not very much. At least got 35k seats. And within the next decade. Maybe add some seats too.
I keep seeing people on here trying to say that Oakland is poor and filled with crime.
The area that the team draws fans from is one of the wealthiest in the nation.
THE singular wealthiest town in America, Orinda, is a suburb of Oakland. The median household income in the CITY of Oakland is $80,143. In Alameda County its $112, 017. In the East Bay area they draw fans from its the highest of any team in the nation at $115,712. THE HIGHEST OF ANY TEAM. That includes the Giants who are located in San Francisco which has a median household income of $126,187 but the cities south of San Francisco along the peninsula are not as high as the cities surrounding Oakland in the East Bay.
The median household income in Clark County Nevada, the area that makes up the Las Vegas metro area, is $64,210. The city of Las Vegas its $61,356.
When it comes to crime, in Alameda County both the violent crime rate (2.48) and overall crime rate (21..88) is lower then Clark County (5.76 and 32.62). Its actually lower than the California averages.
In Oakland proper the violent crime rate is higher but overall crimes is lower. In Las Vegas proper the robbery and aggravated assault rate is 1.5 times higher than Oakland proper. Property crimes like burglary and car theft are 5 times higher. The area that makes up The Strip has the highest number of aggravated assaults and robberies in the state of Nevada.
In San Diego the East Village area where Petco Park was built had the highest crime rate in the county. By far. You didn’t want to walk there at night alone. Now its lower than the county as a whole.
Oakland CAN support a team. They have both the money and the population. What they DON’T need is John Fisher. Let him move to Las Vegas. Oakland may have a new expansion team before the A’s stadium in Las Vegas is even completed.
When this is all said and done, if the A’s move their revenue will drop by a substantial amount. Sports economists are saying that they may not get a local TV deal and if they are able to land one, in this TV climate it will be less than $20 million per year compared to the average of $41 million they have on their deal in Oakland through 2032. That their average attendance in Las Vegas will be less than 10k until the new stadium is finished for the 2028 or 2029 season and around 21,000 after the new stadium opens, far below the 30k capacity of their ballpark.
More later. Heading to Petco.
Padres won in a shutout. You will be a happy camper tonight.
It was a very well played game. Loved seeing the power display by the Padres. Tatis is really coming on. May be his best season ever and that is saying something.
YES ! Forget you Oakland . the best thing about yesterday’s game is when you shut your stupid mouths . I fully despise the dork fan base . You people stay behind . Bring your stupid dog somewhere else . A stadium is not for dogs .
Just finished reading the final bill.
This amendments will add between $80 and $100 million to the construction costs. It will also make the A’s pay an additional $60 million in taxes on the materials for the stadium. Previously those materials were tax exempt.
Because of the demand for diversity, it will add 6 months to the time frame for having the stadium construction start after Fisher finds loans to build the stadium. That is something I deal with on a dozen or more government related building projects every year. Its time consuming and there is no legal way around the timeline.
The A’s will now have to pay for 50% of he infrastructure costs, previously Bally’s was to pay for all of it. They will also have to pay for traffic studies and remediation. That will be tens of millions for a project the A’s are claiming will draw 30k people to 81 baseball games and 24 other events each year.
The amendments also put the cost of any stadium construction overruns on the A’s, not the taxpayers in the state, county, or city. Considering I cannot find a single stadium that was built for the amount of money they said it would cost initially, that could be another huge bill for Fisher.
It will add a bare minimum of $2 million a year or 1% of gross ticket sales revenue to existing community programs.
It will add a 9% entertainment tax to the price of tickets and everything sold in the stadium district. Since neither people that live in Las Vegas nor visitors they are counting on the buy 8k tickets each and every night will NOT be making more money just because the stadium is built, this likely will cut ticket sales by 9%.
The requirement for family and medical leave pay for up to 12 weeks per year at a minimum of 55% of the employees salary could mean millions per year in additional costs for the A’s and their vendors. That last word was added in an amendment and its HUGE. The A’s can’t just farm out all the work and avoid those costs. The vendors will pass them along to the A’s.
The construction companies that build the stadium and A’s and their vendors once the stadium is operational will have to pay prevailing wage. That was an amendment that I am sure was added by union reps. Not sure how much that will mean for the A’s, but for me a prevailing wage requirement on a major construction project in which I employ 100 workers would mean an increase of $2.5 million or more over a years time. A project like a stadium could involve as many as 2000 workers in multiple trades over the 3-4 years it will take to build and the A’s are saying they will have over 400 people working at the stadium once operational between them directly and the vendors. That number the A’s are claiming is twice what they have in Oakland and nearly 100 more than any other stadium in baseball.
Still trying to wrap my head around some of the costs like the scholarships and support for youth baseball.
I guess we will have to see what the ticket and luxury box donations, 25k tickets per season and a luxury box per game, will cost the A’s. I suspect about $2 million per season.
The fact that the legislature felt it necessary to add language to the bill that says that ANY team, one moving or an expansion team, can take advantage of this funding is telling. Do they believe that Fisher will not be able to come up with the loans to actually build the ballpark? Considering that the A’s at $1.18 billion and the San Jose Earthquakes at $510 million make up 77% of his net worth and the inability of casinos to either loan him money or invest in the stadium by Nevada law, this does not look good for Fisher.
There were other additional costs and provisions added by the Senate and Assembly that are escaping me at this time,
Haven’t added up myself what the changes will cost Fisher and the A’s over the next 30 years they would be contractually bound to play in Las Vegas, but I have read estimates of between $450 and $600 million.
The bill now goes to Lombardo
Leftfield, those infrastructure costs were to be paid upfront by Bally’s because they include tearing down the Tropicana, moving existing infrastructure from the area that was occupied by the Tropicana to the area where the new hotel will be built and building out what will be needed for the stadium. The A’s part of that was estimated at $95-100 million. It was to be paid in increased lease costs over the 30 years the A’s would be agreeing to play in the stadium. It was basically a $100 million loan to Fisher amortized over 30 years. Now the A’s will be paying the portion for the stadium as the costs are incurred.
Hey guys. At least Rob Manfred “feels sorry for the fans in Oakland.”
Did I read Commissioner Manfred’s interview comments correctly?!
It reads like he was taunting A’s fans protests against the team?!
If that is true, then that is extremely rude and in bad taste.