Pete Alonso has made a quick return from the injured list, as the Mets announced that the first baseman has been activated from the 10-day IL after just the minimum 10 days. In the corresponding move, New York optioned Mark Vientos to Triple-A.
Alonso was hit on the left wrist by a Charlie Morton fastball back on June 7, leaving the slugger with a sprain and a bone bruise. While Alonso at least escaped a more serious injury like a fracture, he was still expected to miss at least 3-4 weeks recovering. Instead, the Polar Bear easily beat that timeline and is already on his way back to the Mets lineup.
Getting Alonso back so soon is a nice outcome for a Mets team in dire need of a break. After losing 10 of their last 13 games, the Mets are 33-37 and sit in fourth place in NL East — a wholly disapppointing result for a team that won 101 games in 2022, and is spending at record levels this season. While there’s still plenty of time for the Mets to get on track, the Amazins have already dug themselves a big hole, and a wild card may be their only path to the playoffs since the Braves lead them by 11.5 games.
An inconsistent offense has been one of the factors in New York’s slide, so Alonso’s power bat will be welcome. Even after missing time on the IL, Alonso still leads the National League with 22 home runs, and only Shohei Ohtani (23) has more homers league-wide. The first baseman is hitting .231/.326/.546 over 261 plate appearances, and Alonso’s batting average and OBP are both down from career norms. Still, Alonso is making tons of hard contact, and his incredibly low .199 BABIP indicates that Alonso could be hitting a lot better than his already-productive slash line.
Vientos was called up to the majors about a month ago, and he hit .178/.224/.244 over 49 PA. It was an underwhelming performance for a hitter considered one of the Mets’ top prospects, though Vientos also didn’t receive much in the way of consistent playing time. Working mostly as a DH with a few appearances at both corner infield positions, Vientos only played a full game in seven of his 16 appearances. He’ll now head back to Triple-A to await his next opportunity, though Vientos may not have anything left to prove in the minors, given his 1.104 OPS over 166 PA at Syracuse this season.
Surprising, considering the talk was 3-4 weeks. I hope he’s back to his old self.
Now that’s what I call manning up. I know I’ll catch flak from his blindly loyal fan base for saying this, but if Kris Bryant had the identical injury, he’d be out a minimum of 6 weeks. I maintain that Bryant is allergic to manning up. Ah, I see his defenders lining up already.
Well Arch Manning is the next man up
Couldn’t agree more; guys like Bryant, Stanton and Rendon miss 2-4 weeks with a toothache, whereas guys like Alonso and Machado continue to “post up” nearly everyday.
Just a sprained ego after all
Sprained ego. Nah, Alonso is one of maybe three guys on the team pulling his weight.
They need him. He should be given the biggest Met deal ever, his loss showed how important he truly is to the franchise.
The problem is they need a lot more than just him. While its true that if any Met deserves an extension, Alonso is the one. That said, I have to wonder if he even wants to be here long term. The stupid way in which Cohen and Eppler have assembled this team means they won’t be a real contender for a number of years.
Well no matter what Cohen repeatably said, you have to wonder how long he keeps the current G.M. and Manager after this season. Like the Yanks paid to keep Judge, I’m sure it’ll be the same case there.
What are you talking about? They have a core of Senga, Diaz, McNeil, Lindor, Baty, Alvarez, and Nimmo locked up long term. Hopefully Alonso is next. I’ll take that all day.
The results from the non rookie players are expensive and underwhelming, thus the issue. McNeil doesn’t produce anything major other that versatility, Diaz for the $20M is out for the year, and Lindor has only produced RBIs due to where he hits in the order with the protection of Alonso. Senga struggles to get a pitch count beyond five innings. Nimmo so far has been the only one who has produced his worth and expectations. It’s a very ‘what have you done for me lately’ city, and so far we haven’t seen anything.
Lindor and McNiel are both not playing well. Mets are behind talent wise to both the Braves and marlins in the division
McNeil just won a batting title. I couldn’t care less if people want to credit Lindor’s production with Alonso’s protection. That’s what a good lineup looks like. Diaz’s injury sucks, and Nimmo has blossomed into a very underrated star outfielder. Senga’s first year hasn’t been bad, unless your expectations were him being an ace this year. I can expect him to improve over the course of his contract.
I’m not going to overreact this year. We lost our closer and that really hurt our bullpen top to bottom. Scherzer and Verlander are stopgaps pitchers while we stock up our farm system. It’s not like that money is stopping our owner from improving the roster. So who cares what they’re getting paid to be average? The point is, we have a very solid core which we can build off of and keep our competitive window open for the next decade. Hopefully the Mets can get a good arm or two this draft. We could use a guy who can come up in 3 years, right when this core is in the middle of their 6-8 year contracts.
@ metslvt17
You’re kind of making my point for me. You’ve named only seven players, and a couple of them aren’t even that impressive.
That leaves a lot of holes on the rest of the roster. Winning a title requires an entire 40-man roster, and the some.
Senga is little more than a #3 starter right now. Lindor is underperforming his contract. And Baty, for all of the hype, is not yet a proven commodity. He looks good, but he’s really not getting the job done yet.
So what about the rest of the roster? Where is the starting pitching? Where is the depth? Where are the replacements for those players who are leaving over the next year or two? Not in triple-A. Not in double-A. So where? Can you count on the answers you need being available on the free agent market when you need them? No. You can’t. Can you trade for major league help when you have little to nothing in the upper levels of your farm system? No, you can’t.
How are they going to build up the minor league system when Cohen’s spending has resulted in so many penalties? Their top draft pick being dropped ten spots. The bonus pool allotment for the top ten picks in the draft, AND the pool for international free agents have both been reduced. And they have to provide more draft pick compensation than normal when they sign a free agent who has a QO attached to him.
This whole thing is a house of cards and its no surprise that its falling down. The only surprise is that its falling so hard and so quickly.
I understand why the average fan doesn’t see this. But Alonso probably does, and if he wants to win, he just might take big bat elsewhere.
@ metslvt17
How do you get a big pitcher in the draft when you’re first pick is #32? Suggesting that said big pitcher will get here in only three years is at least ideal, and more like overly optimistic. And the core being in the middle of their 6-8 year contracts is a misstatement. McNeil will be 34 and near then end of his contract. Nimmo will be 33, Lindor 32. Senga will be 33, and have an opt-out option that year. Some of those players’ ages will take them out of “the core”, and others will be on the verge of leaving. You can’t just manufacture replacements with a farm system that is as porous and mediocre as this one.
“I can expect him to improve over the course of his contract.”
—No, you can’t. By age he’s already post-peak and he’s only getting older.
This is what happens when billionaire team owners play GM in real life.
@metslvt17 That’s a core of five expensive old players in likely decline or MIA, Alvarez, and finally Baty whom you threw in there because why not, even though he has little of Alvarez’s promise and his actual production.
That’s not a core, that’s a $100m a year burden that you want to add the 30 yo Alonso to, by which time he’ll be a 3 win DH heading towards further decline—unless there’s a class of heavy, subpar 1Bmen moving into the DH slot you want to point to who improve as they move the wrong way through their thirties.
Yep, stupid strategy
They gave short term deals to a slew of older (age 31-40) guys Verlander (2 plus a vesting option), Scherzer (2 plus a player option), Quintana (2 years), Canha (2 years and a team option), Escobar (2 years and a team option, Robertson (1 year), Raley (2 years and a team option), Narvaez (1 year plus a player option(, Ottavino (1 year plus a player option)
They gave long term deals to home grown guys McNeil 4 years and Nimmo 8 years.
Gave a market value deal to Marte.
They gave long term deals to guys under 30, Lindor 9 years, Diaz 3 years plus 3 player/team option years
….and they refused to trade away any of the prospects on the farm at the deadline or last winter.
How stupid.
What are they trying to do?
Take a team that didn’t have enough talent, infuse a short term solution in this short deals to older guys, sign some younger and some home grown guys long term and preserve the farm until it can produce prospects on a regular basis?
Oh wait, maybe they do have a good strategy…..
Yes, what a “good strategy”::
Record payroll and it’s not remotely close.
Record? 33-38.
@strawb, the results are bad. That doesn’t mean the strategy was bad. I’ve been watching Cohen and the Mets since he said at the beginning that he wanted to emulate the Dodgers in the long term (pipeline of talent coming out of the system and consistent winning) and also try to win right now. Every piece of their strategy fits their goals, but a good strategy doesn’t always get the desired results. The talented older guys haven’t performed well. The longer term home grown and younger guys haven’t performed well. The farm has no significant arms ready yet. ……and so they lose. Good strategy, bad results. It happens.
@WampumWalloper Thanks for the civil reply. Cheers,
Puke
Wah Wah call the wahambulance
I’m so big, I’m so strong, I’m so about me
Maybe try waiting an hour before liking your own posts
It’s way after an hour you tool, and I’m still liking my post
@MPrck It would be absurd to offer much more than 4/$100m to a one-dimensional slugger who’s already below average at 1B despite his best efforts.
He’s a 4 win 1Bman in sum who will be a DH by the time he’s a 30 yo free agent. To expect him to be worth more than a 4 year deal is to deny the calendar exists. He’s a very good player, but only that, and he’s not the kind who ages remotely well.
This news actually is a wow, compared to what they originally said
I really, really hope they haven’t rushed them back just because they’re desperate for more offense. Teams are going to keep pitching him inside. If he gets hit on that wrist again while its not fully healed, the result could be terrible.
I have to assume that Pete had a lot of say in the decision to get him back to the team
Maybe so, but Pete has never proven to be the sharpest knife etc.
Why did Vientos not get a legit shot?
Stubbornness, which is a nice way of saying stupidity.
Wow, I didn’t realize Alonso’s BABIP was that low.
Casuals still think Vientos could be destined for superstardom
Incredible how people don’t have any idea how to evaluate anything
GMs, especially Mets GMs, have a fundamental duty not to let fan sentiment influence their decisions
To all the know-nothing casuals:
Vientos got more than enough shots
Do you not even watch the ABs?
They were terrible. He doesn’t have the bat speed or pitch recognition to stick.
Just because a guy is a prospect/unknown quantity does not mean he is any good
Get a grip on the irrational prospect worshipping you people have
Actually, you would have to know-nothing and be clueless to think Vientos did get a fair shot.
Actually, no. You’re yet another person who has no idea how to evaluate an at bat
The guy will never hit. The preseason write-up by mlbtraderumors guys on Vientos that said he would struggle was totally accurate
You’re just people who don’t understand how to evaluate anything
My point remains, he didn’t get a fair shot. If he was brought up to be given a chance to show he could “stick”, he wasn’t given that chance.
I’ve got a question. If you know so much about baseball, how come you’re here on MLBTR on a Sunday afternoon and not running a MLB baseball team?
I get asked that question a lot. Why am I not in the baseball industry
Because I simply didn’t prefer to choose a career in baseball
But looking at the clueless executives running the game and the terrible decisions they make, I often think about how I could have teached them all how to do it better
But again, like any field, the very few people who know how to manage things have to battle the hordes and hordes of people who don’t have a clue
It’s like that here, on Twitter, or anywhere. The mob of casuals and know nothings infiltrate every sector of society, and the 1% have to always battle the other 99%
I’m sure there are a few people in baseball front offices who know better, but how can they when they are overrun by the mediocre and below average minds who think they know, but don’t
Believe me, if you are reading this, there is a 99% chance you are a mediocre or below average mind who thinks he has great knowledge and brilliance, but do not
Just trust me on that one
Literally 99% of the people you encounter online are delusional about their knowledge and ability
Okay, I got it. “By choice man.”
Camden, I might not agree with some of your takes, but you are entertaining.
Camden
To be a successful player evaluator you need good people skills, good communication skills and be able to persuade the clueless. You have demonstrated none of those.
That being said, I agree with your evaluation of Alvarez being a high talent, Baty being medium and Vientos bringing little to the table other than a low hit tool 1B-DH with a little thump.
For the record, the reason he didn’t get regular at bats, genius, is because it’s obvious by looking at his at bats he won’t hit
I can see it, Mets evaluators saw it, and they didn’t give him at bats, properly
I’m not waiting two months for Vientos to hit .188/.230/.330 before he’s sent down just to appease a clueless fan base
By any chance were you at a Gas-n-Sip last night? Please be more respectful in your comments.
So Camden, care to cite your experience in evaluating prospects on a professional level?
You just look at the video Ella. You look at a Mauricio or Alex Ramirez at bat. Takes one at bat to project
And if you have a brain, you’re better than scouts, believe me. You perceive much more. 30 years of experience from someone who can’t innately evaluate anything properly is worthless
There’s tons and tons of scouts and executives that have no idea what they’re doing, that can only look at velo readings and statcast data
There’s a few people in the Braves and Dodgers front offices that have a clue what they’re doing. The Phillies, Astros, Rays, Guardians, Brewers, Cardinals have a clue
The Mets have no clue. Most organizations haven’t a clue how to draft or evaluate
When you have two first round draft picks and you pick Parada and Jett Williams, you haven’t a clue what’s going on
Look, I’m done with these threads. I learned over the years it is utterly useless to argue with people online who haven’t a clue what’s going on
It’s always the people who don’t have a clue who start the arguments, and I might get one like from the rare person who does have knowledge
I’m tired of being in arguments with the mob of casuals
Don’t let the door hit ya
Where will you go? You know more than all the “know nothing casuals” and almost everyone employed by MLB, Statcast, and Fangraphs. The geniuses of their time are frequently not understood or appreciated. Thanks for gracing us with your presence all this time, and teaching us so much.
It is true, yea. I do know more, and in one draft could get more winning prospects than the Mets have in the last 40 years combined
Then through trades like the Rays make, ie taking advantage of clueless “baseball people”, be absolutely loaded in one offseason
It is so easy to do when most people don’t have a clue what they’re doing
Mickey Moniak. Lol, I lmao’ed about that one. Courtney Hawkins. Another lol.
It would be so easy to build a playoff team in a single offseason
Jim Callis, Keith Law, are totally clueless when it comes to evaluating players
Law said Amed Rosario was a “potential MVP” when it was totally obvious the bat speed and pitch recognition speed wouldn’t be there
There are tons of people who get in every industry who really are not very good at what they do
A guy with a “position” in the industry does not mean he is any good at
Hey Camden – in all walks of life, the person who feels he/she has to tell others, unsolicited, how smart or tough or important they are is the least smart, tough and important person in the room. The truly smart remain silent until their thoughts are asked for. The truly tough remain calm until it’s absolutely time to throw down. The truly important have a quiet confidence.
Take a guess where you fall in the walk of life…..
Perhaps the mets failed to develope him i mean his numbers at triple A were great this year..why didnt they see this lack of bat speed? And pitch recognition? If they are so smart why call him up to expose these things when all it did was diminish his trade value? …seems the mets gm blew it here…but hey im a know nothing casual..
Uh, his numbers at AAA are great because he’s seeing soft, weak pitching regularly. Every pitcher in the majors is a minor league star pitcher that you see only 2 or 3 times a week in the minors, if that
@Camden453 Agreed. Vientos looked completely lost.
It’s happened before. Would have been nice if he’d carried his MLE to MLB, but something wasn’t working for him. Sending him back down for a lower-stress tuneup is hardly the worst idea in the world.
1 xbh in 49 PA is Vogelbachian levels of power outage.
Things havent worked out so well with his power up to this point. They need more consistency throughout the offense, not one guy making hard contact. Its not Alonsos problem, he’s a good hitter. Pretty much everything else with that roster is at fault. Biggest disappointment in terms of failed expectations in mlb. Wonder what Cohen thinks about guaranteed contracts now.
Alonso’s ISO this season is .314 and was .323 in ’19 when he hit 53 HRs. The only difference is his gap linedrives now are finding gloves reflected in a .199 Babip (.266 career).
Time for know-nothing casuals to complain about Vientos being sent down
The level of sentimental prospect worshipping has reached epic levels
By the way, I’m not a prospect worshiper. Vientos didn’t look good, and certainly isn’t going to be a star. However, he did not get consistent playing time, and was frequently on the bench in favor of other struggling players.
Why do you think he doesn’t get playing time and Baty does?
Because looking at a few at bats, one shows a true ability to hit, the other doesnt
Yet again, my point isn’t whether or not Vientos is a MLB quality player. It is that he didn’t get a fair shot. He started consecutive days exactly twice, and never even three days in a row. Not many young players could succeed under those circumstances, no less someone who has questionable pitch recognition and bat speed.
@ mookie1
You say your point is not about whether Vientos is good or not. But that is exactly what it is about. What difference does it make if he got a fair shot or not? What defines what is fair, and why is he entitled to that? There is nothing wrong with young kids having to EARN their shot by playing part time. The Mets organization isn’t about Vientos or what is fair to him. Its about the club and what the club needs. His pitch selection is poor, his swing is behind on a lot of pitches. The fact is that while fans are blinded by big AAA numbers or a Baseball America report, most players do not come up and pay full time right away, and most players need to spend a year or two going back and forth to the minors, and/or coming off of the bench they find their stride. Only the stars get to play every day right out of the gate, and not even all of the stars. And nobody pegged Vientos as a star until he (finally) broke out in the minors last season. McNeil did not play every day when he first came up. Neither did Nimmo. Or Wilmer Flores. Or Michael Conforto. The notion that players need to play every day in order to succeed is just a baseless romantic fantasy that fans have contrived.
Of course he shouldn’t be handed a job, or continuously play despite struggling. I would have liked to see him in the lineup after a 1-3 with a walk day for instance. Also, it’s relative to the trash the Mets played instead of him. Ideally you have a lineup filled with players who are decent, and the rookie does have to earn his spot. That hasn’t been the case with the 2023 Mets.
Also, all four of the players you mentioned did start every day when they first came up. I’ve coached baseball for 13 years, and succeeding while not playing regularly is definitely a thing. Some can overcome it, but many can’t.
I agree with you about [some of] the trash that have played instead of him. He could have gotten more at-bats. Especially with ALonso hurt, and Vogelbach having become so completely useless as to be a liability.
But the fact that Vientos didn’t play isn’t even the least bit noteworthy to me and I can’t understand/agree with the complaints about it. The only basis for complaint is the idealized notion that playing more would have resulted in better results. Thats an idea that has little basis. Its a judgement call to be made by management, and I’m not entirely disappointed with it.
Vientos is not an instant stud type. He might be a good player someday. But right now, he gets what he gets.
If August rolls around and the Mets are out of the race, then they need to give Vientos a good, long look. Not giving him a good shot under that circumstance would be an outrage.
@ mookie1
No, they did not. McNeil is the only one who might have played regularly from the get go. Flores was optioned back and forth several times. When he did play, he came off the bench for a time, and platooned (at short with Tejada) for a time. Conforto platooned in left with Cuddyer his first year up. He was also relegated to platooning for a good part of 2016. And Nimmo also saw a couple of back and forths.
We’re not so far apart on the regular playing time thing. I’m inclined to agree that more players will do better that way than not.
I have full respect for the fact that you’ve coached, regardless of level. But every other level is different than the majors in that player development is part of, and even a big part of your responsibility at those levels. The responsibility of a major league manager on a team that is expected to contend is to win games. And I totally get that developing a player now may help win games later. But it all depends on the team’s situation and on the player himself.
I don’t think Vientos’ lack of playing time is a meaningful issue here.
Sorry,but you are mistaken. They all started when they first came up.
It’s not a meaningful issue, I just don’t think he was given a fair chance. If they weren’t going to play him, despite others struggling, they shouldn’t have had him on the roster.
Just to be sure, I checked their game logs and sure enough they all were starters playing just about every day when they first were called up. Obviously, it didn’t stay that way, but they did start immediately in the majors.
Will this save Showalter’s Job?
People, just because a guy is a prospect or young does not mean he’s any good or the savior
Alvarez is a very good prospect. Baty is an “ok” prospect. Vientos is not a very good prospect
Calm down with the prospect worshipping. The only good prospects the Mets have in their entire system are Alvarez and Tidwell
I should clarify the Mets do have other good prospects, but they’re not the ones you hear about
They’re not Parada and Jett Williams. It is unlikely Parada is more than a borderline starter
They have Tidwell, Vasil, and Christian Scott as good pitching prospects
On offense, look, Vientos and Mauricio are not good prospects. The only decent hitting prospect in their system right now is Jett Williams, who is also not really a draft pick you want to go with
Alex Ramirez, I can nearly guarantee, will never work out
So, in fact, his ego was bruised and he needed some time off to recoup. Hey, no worries. Just tell us the truth the next time. Maybe pitchers should start throwing him 90MPH fastballs with no one on so he can crush the ball and yell from the dugout. What a clown.
12.5
My point remains..knowing this..what “genius” called him up to expose him like tbis knowing it would crush his trade value short term AND do nothing to help the mlb team in the process? ..nice try sidestepping Camden..
First game back, Alonso goes 0-for-4 with 3 strikeouts … and Starling Marte grounded into a game-ending double play after the Mets gave up the winning run in the Cardinal 9th.
Is it too late to start a rebuild in Queens?
No, it’s not too late. Maybe that was Cohen’s genius plan all along. Sign everyone and then trade them, eat most of their contracts and infuse the Mets system with young talent. Since you can’t see me, I’ll just tell you that my face is not straight.
The foolish things perpetrated by Cohen-as-GM began when he bought a $363m SS, even though the Mets were better fixed at SS than anywhere else as of the 2020-21 offseason.
That sort of nonsense only continued. The 2022 team got very lucky—that elderly roster’s health was surprisingly good, and its players almost uniformly overperformed. That the Mets only got older for 2023, and that a dismal, badly run organization has only one success thus far among its prospects, shouldn’t surprise anyone.
It’s due for a rebuild in 2024 whether it wants one or not, whether it rebuilds or not. Just compare the prospects Atlanta brings up to the prospects the Mets bring up. The latter except for Alvarez look lost, confused, unsteady. Meanwhile the Braves for a long time have been churning out 20, 21, and 22 year olds who arrive at full tilt.
It’s going to take a very, very long time for the Mets organization to become LA-East or ATL-North.