Rangers right-hander Jacob deGrom will undergo Tommy John surgery to repair a tear in his ulnar collateral ligament, reports Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. Grant clarifies in a second tweet that the full extent of the surgery will be determined once the surgery begins. That leaves open the possibility of the internal brace procedure, which is slightly less severe in nature, but the righty is looking at an absence of at least a year either way.
The news is obviously terrible news for deGrom, the Rangers and the baseball world at large. deGrom, who turns 35 later this month, had established himself as arguably the best pitcher alive with the Mets in his career. From 2014 to 2020, he tossed 1169 2/3 innings with a 2.61 ERA, 29.2% strikeout rate, 6.1% walk rate and 45.1% ground ball rate. He won back-to-back Cy Young Awards in 2018 and 2019, tossing over 200 innings in each campaign with a 1.70 ERA in the former and a 2.43 mark in the latter.
The narrative since that time, however, has been dominating by concerns around his health. In 2021, he had a miniscule 1.08 ERA through 15 starts but landed on the injured list due to some forearm tightness. There seemed to be some disagreement about the nature of his injury, as Mets president Sandy Alderson said that deGrom had been dealing with a low-grade tear in the UCL in his pitching elbow, though deGrom insisted his ligament was “perfectly fine.”
That was a concerning set of statements in its own right, but especially so considering that deGrom had previously undergone TJS as a prospect. He didn’t return at any point in that 2021 season but seemed to be healthy coming into 2022. He then suffered a stress reaction in his scapula during Spring Training and missed more time but was eventually able to return in August of last year. He made 11 starts for the Mets down the stretch and another in the postseason, finishing the season healthy. He had a 3.08 ERA in those regular season starts, striking out 42.7% of opponents against a walk rate of just 3.3%.
deGrom still had one year and $30.5MM remaining on his contract, as well as a club option for 2024, but had long maintained that he intended to trigger his opt-out and test free agency. He did just that and eventually landed a five-year, $185MM deal with the Rangers. He made six starts for the club here in 2023 with a 2.67 ERA but landed on the injured list at the end of April due to elbow inflammation. He was transferred to the 60-day IL yesterday, which didn’t necessarily portend doom since he had already been out of action for over a month. But now the full truth has been revealed and it was an ominous sign after all.
The Rangers are off to a great start here this year, currently 39-20 and leading the American League West. Still, they were undoubtedly hoping to have deGrom’s elite skills back on the roster for a late-season playoff race and theoretical postseason appearance. But they will now have to proceed without him in those plans. Currently, the rotation consists of Martín Pérez, Andrew Heaney, Nathan Eovaldi, Jon Gray and Dane Dunning. Today’s likely increases the chances that they look for rotation upgrades this summer, though their ultimate appetite for a move like that will depend on the health and performance of the remaining members.
For deGrom, this news will have an impact on his contract, specifically related to the conditional option for 2028. The contract states that, if he undergoes Tommy John surgery or has an elbow or shoulder injury that leads to an absence of 130 days in a single season or a full calendar year absence over multiple seasons, a club option will kick in. It’s valued at $20MM but could jump to $30MM if deGrom has a top five finish in Cy Young voting at any point or tallies 625 innings over the course of the deal. It would go up to $37MM if he gets in the top five of Cy Young voting three times or gets to 725 frames. If he didn’t have a significant injury, he could have vested that $37MM figure by tossing just 160 innings in 2027 and getting a top five finish in Cy Young voting that year.
Now the major question for deGrom will be how he bounces back in 2024 and beyond. Coming back from a Tommy John surgery and succeeding isn’t unprecedented, even for a relatively older pitcher like deGrom. Just last year, Justin Verlander came back from the procedure and had Cy Young-winning season for the Astros at the age of 39. deGrom will be turning 35 in about two weeks and will therefore be about 36 when he’s attempting to come back. That makes him a couple of years younger than Verlander was but it’s not exactly the same situation since that was Verlander’s first TJS and this will be a second for deGrom, which tends to have a lower success rate at returning pitchers to their previous states.
In time, more information will surely be forthcoming about deGrom’s progress and how the Rangers plan to proceed without him. But the unavoidable fact of today is that one of the best pitchers in baseball will be out of action for at least a year and possibly even longer.
Oh boy…..
Looks like for once the Mets lucked out!
Didn’t need much luck. The $ it took to sign him vs the risk said to stay away.
Feel for JD, here’s to a speedy recovery.
Anybody who is really surprised by this lives in a cave. What IS surprising is that the Rangers Doctors passed him through his physical with no problem after all the problems he had with the Mets. I’m not a Doctor but I could of figured out he was going to have more problems. One of those things that makes you go Hmmmmmmm…..
“The money vs risk” isn’t in Mets vocabulary. They got lucky or degrom just didn’t want to be a met anymore which is still luck
I wouldn’t say “they passed him through a physical”. They knew the risks and added language into his contract to better protect the Rangers.
Idosteroids-So you’ve seen it then?
@Big whiffa Fair point. After all, it was the Cohen Mets who lunged at Trevor Bauer with something like a 3/105m offer.
Given the absurd nature of Cohen’s first year in Queens, that they got lucky wrt Bauer was little short of a miracle.
@idosteroids It’s difficult to think that adding a $20 to $30 million option year on a pitcher who is going to be FORTY years old and has at least two TJS by that time, constitutes “protection.”
NYM avoided deGrom & Correa, looks like both wins very early on
Yep, the moves not made are just as important as the ones that are made. That said, the Mets seem to have made their share of deals that arent working out. Cie la vie.
Yes, only the Twinkies sign players that don’t pass their physicals.
Except they’re still the Mets and 30-30 and 5.5 games back…
The NYM didn’t avoid them. They failed to sign them. They wanted them. They were disappointed they didn’t sign them. They got lucky, in spite of themselves.
stymee – Pretty sure if the Mets really wanted them, they would have outbid the Twins and Rangers.
What about the two cavemen they signed in Scherzer and Verlander?
Those two cavemen are going to the Hall of Fame pal.
They weren’t going to sign jake.
Those two cavemen might be going to,the Hall of Fame, but by then they’ll be in Hoverrounds.
… and his underwear costs almost as much as his surgery.
Both short contracts and Scherzer’s contract alone will tally more WAR than Jake’s. That being said, terrible news for baseball.
Too bad they can’t get more wins on the field.
they did sign Correa, pending a physical. which scared the crap out of them and they recinded the offer. the twins needed the splashy move more than the Mets. same with the Rangers, the risk was more valuable to them than the mets
Oh the two guys that are still pitching every 5 days? Or do you mean the 2 guys in the Mets rotation that will probably have close to 80 starts each before JD sees the field again? Just curious which two caveman you mean. Maybe you meant the horses they signed! Ya probably meant that.
…based on what they did before they joined the Mets.
Captain IR are u sure about that ? Pretty sure Doc McStuffins signed off on Stanton’s physical
@meckert
Yes, those two cavemen will be going into the Hall of Fame…but not for anything they’ve done with the Mets. It’s essentially Joe Montana in a Chiefs uniform…or Steve Carlton on any of those many teams he was on after the Phillies.
With 90% on the 1st ballot.
Well this is just a dumb narrative.
Most teams DON’T win just like most guys DON’T win. There’s a laundry list of Hall of Famers that we don’t look down on despite them not winning: Piazza, Gwynn, Ichiro, Griffey, Bonds (depending on where you come down on him). Same with teams. Unless you’re the Yankees with the terrible outlook of anything less than a championship is a failure, its a generally poor mentality.
I’ve never seen a rational outlook where we look down on teams or players for not winning. This isn’t the NBA.
Horses? We’re talking about the one who declined taking the mound for the Dodgers late in the playoffs, right?
they didn’t avoid them, deGrom chose TX over the Mets… the Mets went after him with a 3 for 120, that’s not exactly avoiding him…
I predicted this at the time of the signing and I’m disappointed that I was correct. He was amazing to see at his peak, even if that was a short window(s).
Wow, what a predication!
I’m devasted. I’m not a Rangers fan. I’m a bb fan. This is just awful. He’s already had his share of injuries. He doesn’t need this
If you’re devastated by this, consider yourself lucky. It means your real life challenges are less severe than most people’s.
avenger – How did you possibly miss all the other pitchers who have had even more injuries?
Sale, Rodon, Kershaw, Strasburg, Glasnow, Severino, Eovaldi, etc …
It’s part of today’s game, the harder they throw the more susceptible to injury.
If only.
Fever Pitch Guy: Because deGrom is better than all of them put together. You don’t like to see one of the best players go on the IL. I want to see the best play
Yipee Steph!
The only ones that did not predict this was the Rangers.
We should have listened. Oh now.
Revpar35
“Predication” is the noun form of predicate.
If you’re going to mock someone, get it right!
Avenger
deGrom is “better than” Kershaw. Given that deGrom is no “Iron Man”, and Kershaw has more WAR, more ERA titles, more Cy Youngs, more MVPs, more wins, more strikeouts, and a lower career ERA.
deGrom is GREAT. He is not “better than” Kershaw.
Well I understand the way he feels but you’re right, there are more important and sadder things that happens around our lives that deserve more atention than a pro athlete being shut down from the sport he loves and live for and now is heading to the surgery room while his financial situation is so strong, but the truth of the matter is that for athletes like Jakob the most frustrating thing is not how many losses they run into but the the time they are idle due to injuries and mostly this type that takes much years of their prime. So I hope deGromm makes a comeback just like JV and learn to be patient and try to help others while on the IL
avenger – I think it’s debatable whether deGrom in his prime was better than prime Kershaw, prime Sale, etc.
But my only disagreement was about deGrom’s share of injuries, all I’m saying is he’s not the only pitcher to have multiple stints on the IL or surgery that requires lengthy time away from baseball.
Captian?
A man is injured and the mets are lucky? And you mention ‘. . .for once . . .’ blah blah?
Good to be a fan. Yipee.
Cap? A man gets hurt and the mets are lucky? And the -for once -?
Being a fan! Yipee.
Metz humor?
Cap? A man was hurt. and i paraphrase you;
man got hurt, for once luck is with us.
Fan. Yippee.
Kapp? Do not fear, meet your heart
@Captain-Judge99
Mets lucked out? Perhaps. But how much have they lucked out? Take a look at the standings so far this season. Also, the Mets replaced deGrom with Verlander. So does that mean the Astros lucked out even more?
The Mets tried to resign him over the winter. Not sure how that is considered lucking out?
It was almost expected. Sad to see.
The important thing to remember is that nobody could have seen this coming…and to be clear, when I say nobody I mean ANYBODY! What were the Rangers thinking? I didn’t like Seagar and Siemens either but at least they were relatively healthy and consistent position players.
Everyone knew this was going to happen; even the Rangers. They would have been foolish to sign him without buying significant insurance.
Given his history, and age for the sport, I sincerely doubt any insurance company would cover him.
Of course they knew it. Did you read the article where they had clauses put into regarding TJS? When he’s not hurt he is still one of the most dominant pitchers to toe the rubber. That’s why he gets paid more than anyone on a per pitch basis.
Insurance companies aren’t in business to lose money. No one was going to write a policy on deGrom.
Casorgreener…..Seager has a very long injury history. It is surprising he has only hit the IL once so far with the Rangers.
Seager has played in 9 MLB seasons and missed more than 30 games twice. Not the poster boy for durability but not exactly a carrer marred by injuries either.
Going have a 100 win career and make $300 million. Not bad.
I hope he has fun in a life of mediocrity and dismal results
You sound nice.
It really doesn’t look like the Rangers need him right now anyway.
Who didn’t see that coming? Oh yeah, the Rangers.
Shocked to hear this. He’s been so durable.
This Tommy John guy must be making a fortune with all the surgeries he performs.
Dallas Braden made a very interesting comment on a recent Oakland A’s telecast. He said the most common question he receives from parents of high school pitchers is, does he think it would be a good idea their boys to get Tommy John surgery as a preventative measure against future UCL injury. His answer was an emphatic no.
I am having all of my skin removed on Friday so I can prevent skin cancer.
Hemlock – I also agree with Dallas, but I think it’s a personal choice and something that people choose more than you realize.
I know you’re joking about the skin cancer, but for example women such as Angelina Jolie have had a double mastectomy as a preventative measure because she feared getting breast cancer.
Also there are many parents who intentionally expose their kids to chicken pox so that they don’t get it when they are older.
To each their own.
Fever Pitch Guy,
I shouldn’t have to explain a joke—either laugh at it or look away. However, you made a thoughtful reply, which I appreciate, so here goes.
The idea that someone would consider preemptive surgery to correct an issue that has not yet happened is ludicrous. My joke was meant only as a job against the brains in the people that would entertain such an idea. Cancer was simply the vehicle chosen to get there.
Regarding cancer, I am a skin cancer survivor. It or some form of cancer will get me someday. In the meantime, the jokes will keep on coming until that day happens and I am no longer here.
typo: job/jab
Holy nads. Buckle up for these comments
Not a Rangers or Mets fan, but as as a baseball fan, this sux ass.
Stephen Strasburg, eat your heart out.
Strasburg got $60M more.
Stephen Strasburg??? The Nerve of this guy!
A worse contract than sale lol
Genuinely curious, how are you feeling Mets fans?
Thankful to the Rangers but sad for Jake
I’m sure sad that they suck even after buying every available free agent. Organization is trash just spends a lot
Awful. Nobody likes to see any player get hurt. I’ll always root for Jake, I’ve spent thousands seeing him in person when he was in NY.
Would have been better to sign Jake from State Farm. I hear he already had insurance.
The expression “mixed emotions” was invented for how Mets fans feel about this news.
> Genuinely curious, how are you
> feeling Mets fans?
Gently, with both hands, and with their consent.
All of us love Jake, but most of us (admittedly not all) were kind of OK with him leaving. It’s just clear that whatever was going on in his arm could not handle the stress he was putting on it. I didn’t begrudge him at all for taking the contract from the Rangers, and I couldn’t blame the Mets at all for not offering it. Will always love him for his time here and I hope his career continues like it has for many others.
@Hurricane, Maybe deep down Jake loves the Mets and maybe he knew Sandy was right about the ligament damage. What if he signed elsewhere on purpose to keep the Mets safe from paying his salary while he sat on the IL
It does kind of seem like everybody involved in the situation knew the deal, doesn’t it? Even the Rangers I think expected this to happen, but were hoping they could sneak a year out of him first. Besides, a lot of that signing was symbolic as well. Teams do it all the time, they do it to send a message to the league that they’re ready to compete. Hosmer with the Padres, Mets with Pedro.. teams do it all the time. A lot of the time the contract winds up being terrible but it’s worth it to get the ball rolling.
With no disrespect intended to Wampum and Hurricane, I think both of those are extremely unlikely.
There’s no way deGrom jumped on the grenade in order to help the Mets. He took the best contract for himself. If the Rangers don’t win the World Series and the Mets managed to, I’m sure he would be happy for his former teammates much like how Bryce Harper was when the Nationals did.
As for making a splash, there’s perhaps more credence to that, but nearly 40 million dollars per year is more than a splash. The Rangers knew the risk as shown with the way the contract was structured. Any team who signed deGrom were hoping they’d be getting the best pitcher in MLB when healthy.
That’s true, especially considering those initial “statement” contracts were arguably already made with Seager and Semien. Still, given that the Rangers bugaboo for years has been starting pitching, I still feel like it was kind of a statement contract with them crossing their fingers and hoping for the best kind and kind of willing themselves to have a better pitching staff.
I don’t really think that deGrom and the Mets conspired together, it’s more like I think that they both understood going into the whole thing where the other stood, and that this was probably going to end up in a break up, and they were both OK with that.
Sucks but this was always a risk the rangers and fantasy baseball teams knew had a higher probability than not
Next Strasburg contract
Contract not looking good as of now. It’s not Strasburg bad but the first 2 years you get nothing.
He could be back for the stretch run next year
Doubtful. He is older and will take longer to recover.
He can always use a walker to get to the mound, then a wheelchair if he throws more than twenty pitches in an inning.
Verlander came back better than ever after his TJS. Hopefully, JdG can do the same. The game is better with a healthy deGrom in it.
Verlander’s TJ surgery.was his first. deGrom will be having it for the second time. Very few have made it back from a 2nd TJ, and almost none reached their previous level of pitching success.
And Verlander is an exception:
“According to the Tommy John surgery database kept by Jon Roegele, to that point only 12 other pitchers aged 36 or older had undergone the surgery (another, John Axford, has since then). Only one of them, reliever Arthur Rhodes, returned to throw more than 100 innings and only two pitchers, Rhodes and Billy Wagner, accumulated more than 0.6 WAR post-surgery.”
Texas Walker?
Careful, just saying “stretch” could keep him out longer.
Hey, Texas should be happy they got six starts out of him, and they won all six of his starts.
over 2 years and only six starts, how much was he paid per start? Im no math wiz, but i’m thinking maybe a record amount per start that will end up.
I’m sure their are some FA pitchers who signed one-year deals and ended up injured in SP that never made a meaningful start to their teams so those would technically be worse. But for the fun of debate, I have to imagine Strasburg and Sale are also up their right now. Carlos Rodon is another recent one too.
Yikes
There goes the HOF
Yeah. You’re not wrong. deGrom is more of a Cliff Lee now; brief periods of absolute dominance in an injury-shortened career. I don’t think that’s enough to cut it.
Err, equating deGrom to Lee does the former a disservice. Take Lee’s 6-year peak from 2008-2013 (with much weaker numbers directly before and one mediocre season after) and you get a fantastic 140 ERA+. deGrom, meanwhile, has a career ERA+ of 155, full stop. deGrom has Pedro Martinez level quality for his career, and is comparable on a quality basis to Koufax once he broke out in 1961 through the end of his career. Seeing as dominance over a similar length (with deGrom still having the opportunity to add to his ledger) hasn’t even kept Koufax from inner-circle talk much less the HOF, deGrom should already be in the conversation at a bare minimum.
Good points, and to clarify I’m not comparing the stats as much as how I’d sum up their careers: dominance shortened by injury. Of course deGrom has better overall numbers than Lee, I wasn’t trying to say otherwise. It’s just a shame their careers took similar paths. I would be on the fence with deGrom getting it, but I do think it’s important to remember his dominance, however brief.
For his career deGrom is 84-57, has 1,652k to 307 walks, 2 Cy Young awards,, gave up .8 HR/9 and a 2.53
Sandy Koufax pitched approx 1,000 more innings than Degrom and had 10 years over 100 innings pitched. Degrom has 6 years over 100 innings pitched but none since 2019. He will be 36 when he comes back. The odds are against Degrom ever returning to his peak. You can’t just throw away Koufax’s years being serviceable to his team as well. Pedro had approx more than 900 more innings pitched than Degrom with 15 years of more than 100 innings pitched. As of now atleast for me it’s a no for Degrom getting into the HoF as imo I don’t see him adding much to his cause. Time will tell.
For his career deGrom is 84-57, has 1,652k to 307 walks, 2 Cy Young awards, gave up .8 HR/9and has a 2.53 ERA. I’d say that’s enough to gat into the HOF.
There is no comparison between Jake deGrom and Sandy Koufax.
Koufax threw 137 complete games and 40 shutouts. The job of a pitcher in his time was to go 9, face batters three and four times and have enough of an arsenal to succeed. Koufax had a 2.73 ERA in innings 1-3, a 2.81 in innings 4-6 and in over 600 innings during the 7th -9th had a 2.71 ERA.
deGrom is pitching in a time of max effort for 100 pitches. He has 4 complete games and 2 shutouts in his career. He’s only thrown 138 innings from the 7th to 9th. He maxes out early with an ERA in the 1st-3rd of 2.23, from the 4th to 6th its 2.72 and then he goes and sits down. On the rare occasion he is asked to go deeper and fool batters a 3rd and 4th time, beyond the 6th it’s 3.13. 2 shutouts……2. What would his career numbers look like if he was expected to go 9.
No pitcher in todays game can be compared to any pitcher from the 1900’s.
While deGrom was spectacular when healthy, great players with injury-shortened careers have been denied entry to the Hall in the past.
Despite the shift to newer, more analytic-based stats by the writers who vote, can’t imagine only 84 wins get ting a starter into the HoF.
@avenger65 Talk about Degrom making the hof once he reaches atleast 100 wins. I know from watching the games that he got cheated out of a lot of wins because of our bullpen blowing all his games (thanks Drew Smith, Drew Gagnon, Nogosek, Tyler Bashlor, Jacob Rhame etc.) and our offense not hitting at all for him, but most hof voters are going to question him for his lack of wins. He should have around 150 right now with his numbers but he doesnt. The hof voters will equate that to him just not being a winning type of pitcher
> There is no comparison between
> Jake deGrom and Sandy Koufax.
Don’t forget Koufax’s World Series successes. That’s a big thing missing from deGrom’s career. Not that it matters. There is no comparing the two right now.
“ What would his career numbers look like if he was expected to go 9.”
What would Koufax’s numbers have looked like if he wasn’t expected to go 9. He may not have retired at 30 years old and never pitched over 300 innings
2.53 ERA.
2.53 ERA. I’d say that’s good enough for the HOF.
Pitchers in the 1900’s thought out how to get a guy out 3 and 4 times, they held back pitches to throw in later at bats, it was a different game. No pitcher from today should be compared in ERA or ERA+ to pitchers of the 1900’s. There is no telling just how much more dominant Seaver, Carlton, Feller, Spahn etc would have been if they knew ahead of time that they were only throwing 100 pitches and probably wouldn’t see batters more than twice.
I stated his other career stats in an earlier post. I think the the media will not only take into account his spectacular numbers, but intangibles like seeing him pitch and some voting with their hearts. By the way, the media should never be allowed to vote for awards. The players should.
Koufax suffered from severe arthritis. He was in too much pain to continue pitching. That’s why he retired so early. Why would a manager let him stay in for 9 innings when they could’ve gone to the bullpen? Because it was a different day. A pitcher was expected to go 9. The only pitcher who does that on a regular basis is Alcantara.
@avengers65 Voters will look at peak years. ’17-’19 simply isnt enough.
I’d say that’s not enough.
He goes in flash pan boys hall way of fame. Fedora wear mandatory. Brisket and sloppy steak sandwiches served to first 40 people. Every second Wednesday, Vince Coleman and Corey Kluber day. Bring your family for chance to meet Daryl Strawberry.
Poor guy can’t catch a break.
Just catching the tears and strains instead of the breaks.
As much as it stinks baseball-wise, the guy is in his 30’s and is a multi multi-millionaire. He’ll be fine.
Of course money means a lot as far as a player considering where to play. But there are those who still play for the love of the game. One player who wanted to keep playing for his team instead of going elsewhere is Jose Ramirez, who left a lot of money on the table because he wanted to stay in Cleveland. But admittedly, there are few of those kind of players
Too bad. Great pitcher. Health has not been his friend. He’s done until 2025, when he turns 37.
Is that three Tommy John’s for him? Has that ever been done before
2
3 for Jonny Venters I know. Two for Degrom.
Jason Isringhausen
Josh Johnson
Jonny Venters
all had it 3 times.
deGrom is only at 2.
Well apparently if your name starts with J you may be at higher risk
Yeah that’s my bad. I thought he got Tommy John for the UCL thing a couple years back
The Mets have figured out how to identify TJ candidates. The Rangers have not.
Was he insured?
They insisted on getting an ace…the only big ticket pitchers available were Verlander, Degrom, and Rodon. Trade price for pitching was very high. Rangers were not looking to subtract. And here we are.
What a group. Rodon has not pitched this year. Verlander has just 6 starts and a 4+ ERA. Now deGrom is done, maybe for his career, after just 6 starts this season.
@Rishi The pity of it is, the Rangers failed to identify where they were.
They’re an extremely good team even with very little help from deGrom. They needed another terrific hitter or another good pitcher, not a brilliant pitcher who was very likely to have serious arm trouble and vanish from the roster for years at a time.
Dominant when healthy, but hasn’t been healthy since 2019. With the exception of Bartolo Colon, the entire Starting pitchers for the Mets 2015 run can’t catch a break.
@seth
He’s one of the few who can say he’s dominant when not healthy as well. They could probably just remove his ligament altogether and he’d still be great.
Like RA Dickey? He was missing the ligament and won a Cy Young. Only he was born without it. Jake should consider the knuckle ball during rehab.
Regarding knucklers, many are called, few are chosen. Hardest pitch to master but impossible to hit when its working. Wish more guys could figure out how to throw it.
@ seth
Yes. And Zack Wheeler, the member of that group who missed the stretch run (due to TJ, ironically enough) is the one going strong now.
@seth I wouldn’t say they can’t catch a break, but rather that the Wilpon regime had no idea how to keep players healthy.
How did the Rangers medical staff not draw more questions on this? His elbow issues go back to last year or even earlier.
Likely because it was an ownership call to go after him in the first place.
This shocks me as much as when I learned that there was gambling in Casablanca.
“Of all the elbow joints, in all the towns, in all the world, he walks into mine…” -deGrom’s surgeon, probably.
@Gwynning
And winner of the internet today … Gwynnnnnnniiiiiinnnnng
And Ranger ownership can walk up to him on a regular basis with a check and say “your…winnings, sir”.
Your winnings, sir.
Ha ha, I absolutely love that film.
holy crap
When he signed this contract w/ the Rangers I predicted he would not make more than 60 starts over its 5-year term. I was hoping I’d be wrong but unfortunately it doesn’t look that way.
Congratulations on always needed to be right. I hope it feels good. You baseball savant.
Degrom is a con man as he knew all along that he wasn’t well, yet signed the contract knowing he wasn’t going to pitch very long. He’s a con artist who has now fleeced two teams.
Rich I bet you beat your pets.
Oof
Welp. deGrom has been handed multiple hundred million plus winning lottery tickets with these contracts. He’s the poster child for a base salary and easily achievable bonuses to bring his salary up if he could stay healthy. The guarantees have been way too big.
He should have been a $10M-$20M base with $30M or whatever in “easily achievable” bonuses based on games started, innings pitched, dats spent off the IL, etc.
Incentive bonuses are limited by the CBA. You can’t structure a contract that way, with most of the money non-guaranteed.
Tell that to Buxton and the Twins.
All joking aside I get that. But there have to be special cases of people like deGrom who are supernatural when they’re healthy but rarely healthy.
I get the chaos that it would be to have all these non guaranteed deals with complex bonus structures and more bonuses than guarantees but again I do feel like if guys can qualify for super two or get a split deal or whatever they can do deals of this nature. A “low” base that’s still eight figures with a ton of easily achieved bonuses that the team can save on if the guy’s notoriously injury prone body gets injured.
Then again maybe that’s the inverse of how it should be: underpaid players for their game over game production and value, overpaid for their typical and predictable time spent on the IL.
Was it John Lackey with the Red Sox who had another year tacked one for $1mil if he got TJS or spent so much time on the DL in a season? And it happened. I’m surprised more teams haven’t gotten this since, that I recall
Yup.
Well such a contract isnt allowed to exist and why do you care anyway? It’s not your money.
Well why do you care that I care about contracts that don’t impact either of us? You took the time and made the effort to read and respond to my comment. Why’d you do that? What was the point?
Because contract analysis and speculation is a huge part of the entertainment value of the game. Getting into pint less arguments and opining in comment sections of mlb trade rumor articles is a part of the fun and perceived value of the game.
We speculate on trades that never happen. We speculate on who’s overrated and underrated. Ratings are basically meaningless in a functional sense in the ways fans discuss them.
Etc.
Why go pint less? I’d drink to that!
As a sober person, I do get into pint less arguments. But in essence a pint less argument is pointless, like the entertaining arguments we have about baseball and baseball related finances.
I agree with you, but the big free agents are not going to sign those types of contracts. So if you wanna player like him, you take a risk. But it’s a big risk. And I wonder if they have insurance on him, because I thought that would be advantageous for the team, I know that a lot of times the insurance companies do not want to take the risk, they are the smart ones.
Sorry to hear. The warning signs were clear tho
Rangers are dumb af, they deserve this
Sure is dumb when he can only manage barely more than 50 innings a season lmao. Dumb contract, dumb team
He was far from the best pitcher in baseball when he signed for the reason of injuries above all else.
I can’t believe I sidestepped this landmine on my rotisserie teams. I usually like gambles like this.
Ditto. Was tempted to trade Domingo German straight across for Jake but opted for a Rodon swap instead. Feelin’ like Neo since I apparently dodged a bullet… we’ll see what Rodon brings before I start claiming I won that trade! Cheers amigo
Rodon a big? At this point. Hopefully we will see him soon, and he is good for us. We will need it with Cortez down now and who knows what you can get from Severino one game good ,another game abysmal.
Not surprising but still sucks to happen. Likely out not only this year but next year as well. Correct me if I’m wrong but most pitchers have a 14 – 16 month timeline on this. Maybe back next year for the playoffs but who knows.
This isn’t just bad for the Rangers, this is bad for baseball. The game is better when this guy gets to pitch every 5th day, Sad to hear this news.
Overall, I do think that the Rangers will be fine without him as they’ve shown an incredible offense, as well as some really great pitching from their other starters in Eovaldi, Grey, Perez, and a bit of an inconsistent Heaney. I’ll expect some type of move at the deadline to shore up the back end of the rotation now that they won’t expect Degrom back.
If you’re a true Mets fan and don’t feel terrible about this, even though he’s no longer on the team, I feel sorry for you. He gave Mets fans the biggest thrills they’ve had in years
Of course, why wouldn’t we? He’s a legend and first and foremost a human being. I hate seeing any baseball player get hurt. But I can’t tell you how much money I’ve spent to go see him in person. I was rooting for his success.
The greatest move of the Cohen-era-Mets was not signing deGrom. This sucks for baseball. Feel bad for Rangers fans, but we all saw this coming. Texas is still winning without him.
I mean Texas has been winning without him. I didn’t say they’d win the World Series or anything. I do feel bad. And sure, there’s some hyperbole with the “greatest” move by Cohen, but I guarantee you ever Mets fan is pretty happy about that non-signing.
$185 mil down the toilet!
Done da done done. DeGrom’s career is likely over. Oh my.
That was one heck of a lot of money spent to get nothing back. He pitched this season so they cannot even collect insurance money for 2023.
This was expected lol. He can’t stay healthy for more than a yr or 2. Why anyone would give him that many years being 35 and has had health problems blows my mind.
I don’t think the Mets avoided anything. The Meta are probably to blame for this. They handle their pitchers so poorly, going back years.
He needs to develop off speed pitches not throw everything 93-99 every pitch. That will take a toll on anyone. I can see Edwin Diaz having the same problems.
Surprise Surprise Surprise! Except not to me and other astute Mets observers who suspected this years ago. Nice job by DeGrom keeping this under wraps until after he signed his mega contract.
He isn’t the best. He was arguably the best for one year.
Since then Scherzer/Verlander/Strider have all been better.
I’m not sure how a pitcher keeps an injury “under wraps”. More likely, Texas ownership to a Cohen approach to team-building and told the GM to sign everyone. An open check book makes it easier to not bother looking too deeply, for fear you will find something.
Jake should have signed with the Mets. They have a half dozen other free agents that I wish were on the IL.
I don’t see the big deal nor the need for all of the dramatics.
He’s a great pitcher… but honestly all the hof stuff is bs he’s not going there. He hopefully will be back to his old self. He’s fun to watch. Texas did get hosed on this deal
Well, the Rangers have their closer for 2025!
I sorta feel bad but at the same time lmfao……what did they think was going to happen when they signed him? He cannot stay on the field.
Pretty cool you think it’s so hilarious.
Hey thanks man! My comment was geared toward the fact the Rangers signed him more than what you are thinking but I’m glad you appreciate it!
I’m glad you got such a kick out of someone’s injury.
Well like I said it was more about the Rangers signing him to that ridiculous contract. Think what you want.
The hell with Degrom, he fleeced us and now he’s doing it to the Rangers. Degrom will never pitch effectively again so the Rangers are on the hook for all that money for just 6 starts…looks like it’s 30mil a start, very laughable. Degrom knew he was hurt and being the con artist he fleeced the Rangers.
That’s what I’ve been thinking all along. He had to be hurt but he kept it all to himself. Of course we could be wrong but it sure looks like he’s a con man here. Like Rodon and the Yankees. He knew he wasn’t right. Just what I think.
But teams keep giving out these big contracts knowing the immense risk and are willing to overpay for the “now”, the future be damned!
Spoken like a fan of team who accepts mediocrity.
This was a high risk/high reward deal from the get go.
The scary part for the rest of the division is that Texas is kicking butt without JD and hasn’t had Seager much at all.
You’ve got to be an idiot to give DeGrom that contract. Like a true moron. Why do you think the Dodgers are perennial winners. They only give big contracts to guys who have a track record of durability.
Chances are, Degrom knew he wouldn’t be healthy to fulfill the contract.
When you cannot take the field and pitch effectively, it makes absolutely no difference how good you were and are when you are so often not on the field. Being paid an extraordinarily huge sum of money on a long contract with very little likelihood of success, a very bad bet by the Rangers.
And yet the Rangers still have the 2nd most wins in the AL without him.
I just don’t see TJ will solve all of his problems though.
As a Mets fan, feel very sorry for deGrom, who was my fav player while on the team. Having said that, Mets dodged a huge bullet. What’s the success rate after 2nd TJ surgery?
See you in 2025, Jake. Meanwhile his $37 million stays on the Rangers’ books for this year and next, yikes
deGrom is of a type, a whippet- thin hurler who totally sells out with that arm. Most the TJ victims are built like that.
Puts me in the mind of Tim Lincecum. So much stress on torque and no good solid foundation in the legs and ass.
Most pitchers when they age fill out in the core, trunk and lower body. Compare Verlander when he first came up and now.
I,m tellin’ you, it’s these Max Fried, Alex Wright, and deGrom ectomorphs that are going down!!
Get some size in the thighs and stuff in the duff and you’ll be Big John- not Tommy.
I’ve always said legs are as important as arms. The great Walter Payton of the Bears had a mountain built for him. He would run up it several times to build up his lower body. He said it wasn’t just his legs that got him past defenders, it was his butt. When pitchers learn to strengthen their lower bodies and use their legs for power and not their arm, there will be much fewer Tj surgeries.
Bingo!
Poor guy is running out of time, turning 35 in two weeks. On the flip side, he could well be the first (to my knowledge) pitcher ever elected to the HOF with under 100 wins and no saves.
Rangers will now win WS
He should be back in the Texas rotation by June 2025. WOW that a total of $74 Million he will get for only 6 starts. Yikes
Rare Mets medical staff W
First of a long line of horrible contracts handed out this off-season. Many more will come home to roost.
Degrom’s injuries are 100% his fault. He used to throw 97,98 mph consistently. In Spring training games now he throws 102 mph. He tries to out macho everyone to boost his own ego. Look at Shane Bieber, he can throw 97 mph every pitch if he wanted to but hes been dialing back to around 93,94 to keep himself durable. It doesnt matter how hard you can throw if you can’t play. He did just fine throwing softer. Hopefully this will wake himself up that he needs to learn how to pitch with his secondary stuff and not rely on 102 mph and 95 mph sliders. While I do feel a bit bad for him, the writing was on the wall for a very long time that he did not like being a Met. He was sick and tired of not getting wins when he’d give up 0 or 1 runs and he didn’t like the way NY was turning out politically (I agree with him, its becoming a craphole). Texas and Florida are so much more beautiful then Flushing Queens, I can tell you that. He splits his time in Florida and Texas, I dont blame him. Enjoy your 2 year vacation Jake!
Just when I think I can’t hate your posts more, you totally prove me wrong and get political.
The most painful thing in all sports for me is talent unfulfilled due to injury. It just hurts us all. He’s kind of a modern Sandy Koufax.
You’re right about that
Degrom was no Koufax. The Dodgers rode Koufax into the WS and average 275 innings pitched while average a 22-7 record.
Would Koufax have benefited from TJS? I’m not sure what kind of elbow problem Sandy had and if it could have been resolved with todays medical advancements.
I agree Koufax and deGrom both suffered from arm problems and did not, or will not, attain the sustained success they otherwise would have enjoyed. That said, despite Koufax’s shortened career, he was the more “durable” of the two as he still threw 137 CGs and pitched 300+ innings three seasons. By comparison, deGrom has started 215 games and barely reached 200 IP three times.
Arthritis, so likely with modern medicine it isn’t an issue ever.
He now joins guys like Denny McLain and Smokey Joe Wood in the Hall of What Might Have Been.
Smokey Joe had a 117-57 record with a career ERA of 2.03, and he’s in the HOF. I think we know what he might have been.
Good thing the Mets did not resign him.
Unbelievable, we all knew it was a risk signing, but I figured Texas would get at least the first one or two seasons out of him. Guess everybody was right. Sucks
This stinks. Dunning has been great so far but ig we’ll see. As far as depth we’ll survive. Rangers have done immeasurably better than anyone thought this year so hopefully we keep it going.
I repeat, Anyone patting themselves on the back or taking a victory lap because they “called it,” grow up. That’s a person’s career and legacy in jeopardy. He’s not someone out there cheating, beating his wife, using performance enhancing substances.
I really hope Rangers file a grievance against Mets. He was damaged goods. Cohen is a crook. Disgusting.
Are you smoking Crack? WHat does Steve Cohen have to do with the money Texas tossed at Degrom? Was Steve Cohen Degrom’s agent?
Wake up the guy committed fraud at his hedge fund. Once a slime all always a slime ball. He should be barred from the game but Manfred is a puppet.
It’s up to the Rangers to check the player out thoroughly.
lol wut
Dude. You are a wack job.
Dumb comment, he’s a free agent and he could sign with whomever he wants. The dumb ones here are you and Chris Young who signed him knowing full well this cat was injury prone. Mr. Cohen has nothing to do with it and he was smart enough to know that bringing Degrom back was risky so he stayed clear away from him and thanked him for opting out as he helped us keep some of the money. I guess Degrom felt a little remorse fleecing the Mets for almost 72mil by not playing for two years.
You conveniently leave out the part about how the Mets ruined him.
Ok. Amuse us. How, exactly, did they ruin him? The same way they ruined Matt Harvey? Doc Gooden? Rick Aguilera? Smh
I’m done with baseball. I’ll start following some random sport like basketball or something now. Btw, why is that liberal arts major Chris Young running an actual MLB team? Get real doctors and have him pitch through it like a man.
His background is relevant since they praise him as the smartest man in baseball. Also, you don’t really get what it’s like to have your GM blow through money in free agency, refuse to make trades, and refuse to use players like the should be. You don’t understand what it’s like being a Rangers fan. I loved having JD. Now, this guy comes in and is hailed as brilliant. He never was Nolan Ryan on the field, and they are literally obsessing over him all over because of his Princeton background. That is why it’s relevant.
deGrom Texas Ranger
His background is relevant since they praise him as the smartest man in baseball.
===============================
Almost nothing you said makes sense.
1-I never heard anyone call him the smartest man in baseball.
2-What possible difference can it make that he wasn’t as good pitcher as Ryan?
3-And if JD mean Daniels, he was a pretty bad GM.
Twice actually
Lol. The dude became one of the better players among the best of the best with a long playing career. Then retired and worked his way up to the highest level of a baseball organization.
Gtfo with your toxic masculinity bs, man. You claim to be a college student. Learn something while you’re there or you’re going to wind up lonely and angry.
They do have a 20 million option if he undergoes TJS, so it’s something.
Unfortunately most long term / big dollar contracts do not work out after 2-3 years. In some cases they never work out. I just don’t understand giving a guy a huge contract without doing the MRI up front.
Is that true? Are there any good examples?
There was ZERO chance I’d have signed this guy this off-season. GM’s lose jobs like this.
Ya and a 18-8 record over those 4 YEARS.. Don’t do idiot research. And BTW if you had owned the Mets you’d have paid $250k for each strike out. Do the math. Glad you’re not running a team. Ya the 397 strike outs are over 4yrs. Oh BTW Verlander had almost 800 during that same time and won a CY. Scherzer had over 800 K’s. Lol Do better research.
Oh ya one more issue. Because he’s going to have surgery it kicks in a 6th year and additional $35 million. So you’re in the book until he’s 41? That’s a HORRIBLE signing.
I’ll go with Kidcub on this one. If DeGrom got worn down 2-3 years into the contract, that’s a risk for any contract. When you sign an injury-prone pitcher for $185M/5, and you lose the guy for two years, after only 30 innings, that would be a serious problem for a lot of teams.
WELP O_o
100% laughing at the thin skinned deGrom Texas ranger guy who blocked me before the season started bc he couldn’t handle a disagreement about the intelligence of this kind of contract for this kind of money. Nothing offensive was even said. Dude’s feelings just get hurt more than deGrom’s arm, shoulder, and/or ligaments. BwahahahahahHa…. I’ll be laughing about this one for along time….
Couldn’t have happened to a better person. He had two good years and thought he was the king of the hill. He’s got a newborn on the way so he’s going to make sure he raises that child because this guy is not coming back; he fleeced the Rangers and Chris Young should be fired for this terrible signing. Degrom could care less as the money is guaranteed.
I was a RS fan that wanted us to sign DeGrom. In retrospect, it was an awful move. There is no way around that. Even if he returns in 2025, and even if he pitches well, it will still be $185M/3.
Jake still the best I seen and no one close
One item missing from the article: Jake’s starts got progressively worse in 22 and gave up more homers than his average. The need for a second TJS was discussed in NY sports media. Texas can still win a WS with JD at the top of the rotation and Jake will still be a first ballot HOF inductee. This is an expectable bump in the road. This Met fan wishes Rangers fans and JD all the best.
What you smokin? deGrom never ever will be in HOF. He will be lucky to pitch in 2025.
Seriously.
Surprised that people think this two time Cy Young Award winner who was the most dominant SP for a span of four years would not be a HOF inductee. Would like to see a poll of MLBTR readers
He wasn’t the most dominant through that time. He had one “most dominant year” and has not been close since then.
Johan Santana had a better career and never sniffed a ballot.
deGrom’s career is not over. And Santana will be inducted following approval of the veteran committee or whatever its called.
I agree – there’s a lot of negativity here. As a Met fan I was happy to see Jake leave bc of the health risk. But he’ll be back. He may not ever be the utterly dominant beast he once was but people forget – this dude was not a top prospect. He is a grinder and will be a very effective pitcher for the Rangers in a couple of yrs
What? Santana’s never getting in. He fell off the ballot he had such little support. Veterans aren’t putting him in.
Bro it’s not the Hall of pretty good. So you a “dominate” for 4yrs your a HOF’r? WTF are you talking about. You’re a Mets fan or Rangers. People like Verlander, Scherzer are HOF guys. So a CY must be your criteria.
What? This dude only gets in the Hall if he buys a ticket. He will be lucky to get 100 wins and even luckier if he makes 2k strike outs. HOF? Bro what you smoking?
Kidcub23
He needs three more seasons that roughly approximate 19-21 and he is a first ballot lock. It’s not about 300 wins and 3000 ks anymore. He will easily surpass 2000 strikeouts and have a historically low FIP, assuming he manages to pitch 200+ innings for 3 seasons in Arlington. As for Santana, i think you are underestimating the power of the veterans committee to see players in a new light with the passage of time.Santana was a great pitcher who will be in the HOF. He was tossed in part because some of the folks on the crowded ballot were cheating when they played.
he had the greatest 10-start stretch in history. even short (3-5 seasons) periods of total dominance deserve HOF consideration (johan santana should be in)
FIP means nothing when it comes to a pitcher who intentionally induced contact by pitching, not throwing like degrom does;
They got what they paid for. An injury-prone pitcher.
Seeing him almost cry makes me want to cry. If you guys haven’t seen it, watch him answering questions to reporters. It is on MLB.com.
A majority(not all) of the Mets fanbase are cheering that a baseball player is injured. That tells you everything you need to know about one of the worst fanbases in MLB.
I mean, the Rangers had to know this was coming when they had to remove him from a game in spring training with forearm discomfort. Best case scenario, deGrom can get the internal brace procedure and be back by the All Star break next season. Worst case, see you in ’25…
Wonder what the insurance on this contract looks like and what it means for the Rangers’ greater return to relevance effort at large…
Just like he fleeced the Mets the last couple of years, well he’s fleecing the Rangers for the full five years of that contract. Everyone knew he had an issue with that arm, the Mets never had any intention of signing him as Sandy knew all along that he had a tear, but Degrom being the liar he is told the Rangers that he was fine when he wasn’t. The liar has fleeced the Rangers, glad it’s not us. Some may say we dodged a bullet, but we didn’t as the Mets had no intention of signing and only bluffed in ordered to appease some of the fan base.
You bring up a key point: when Alderson told the press that the tests showed ligament damage DeGrom denied it. Certainly the Rangers medical staff detected something as well but management decided to take the risk. It was a bad gamble.
Overpay
He’s out for 2023 and, for conservative purposes, 2024. In 2025, he’ll be on an innings limit. He’ll be theoretically be healthy with no restrictions for 2026 and 2027. So, two years, $185M.
This is actually not too surprising based on his recent injury history.
Watching him pitch, it was like Pedro, just amazing. Such a shame, but, wait for a year and see what happens. It would be great if he could have one more turn to shine. Good luck to him.
Man, it’s too bad that @MetsFan22 is no longer around. He sure did a number on deGrom with those ‘he never has to pitch another game and he’ll still be in the Hall of Fame’ comments. From the very next game, that’s when deGrom got injured and has been injured ever since.
How can a guy be so much of a jinx on his own team and its players (and former players)?
lolRangers!
Worst pitcher in MLB. Rangers should DFA him and move on.
I’ll play the contrarian. His stuff was still top notch early this year. This TJS has been coming for two years. He’ll be one of the top pitchers in the league again come 2025.
Lord99 I think that’s the prevailing hope from DeGrom’s camp. Get the surgery, have a nice run post recovery. If he’s pitching at the end of this contract the surgery, and likely the contract; will be a success.
Man that press conference with him….hard to watch. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that what we are commenting on and jesting about are human lives. Yes he’s rich and well off, but anybody with a pulse could feel that intense disappointment watching that video.
Rangers should hire Greg Maddux to be his mentor and teach him about finesse pitching. It doesn’t need to be max effort every pitch.
Rangers might want to start looking into getting a starter at the deadline. Your team is making the playoffs might as well get help to make a good run.
Because I don’t feel like reading through every comment to see if it’s been mentioned, from what I’ve read, because of the cost to insure deGrom’s contract, the Rangers instead included language for a club option, that if he missed significant time due to elbow or shoulder injury (Tommy John) that the option year would be for 20 mil, unless he finished in the top 5 for cy young, then it could be a 37 million option year. So there’s apparently no insurance, but if he came back healthy enough for the remaining years and the Rangers chose to take another risk, they could get another year of him for 20 mil.
That was reported by The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal. The ’28 team option would be a risk in itself due to his advanced age by then. If he’s not reaching the performance level to cap out that option, do they really want to keep him for another year? I think it’s wishful thinking that he’ll turn into another JV.
It’ll definitely be a risk. But at the same time, if he manages to put in a great year ahead of it, 20 mil will would be a bargain compared to what Verlander and Scherzer are making at their ages. But the most likely scenario sadly Is that he’ll likely spend most of this contract injured and have the option declined.
Yeah, it sucks. I did not want him to leave early during his last game against the Yankees. Let’s hope he comes back strong.
Hope they got insurance 😉
They didn’t.
I will wink harder next time
One of the best abilities is availability.
Jacob DeGrom has an arm injury…If I woke up tomorrow with my head sewn to the carpet, I wouldn’t be more surprised than I am now.
deGrom aka Mr Glass
I’m not a Mets or Rangers fan. But, I hate to see any ball player get injured. Hope Degrom makes a full recovery.
Just another example of signing an older pitcher to a long and very rich contract.
Maybe it’s time for him to be a closer. I know it’s a lot to pay a closer, but it’s also a lot to pay someone who doesn’t play at all