The Mariners mostly shied away from the free agent market on the heels of their drought-ending playoff berth. Instead, Seattle turned to trade to add to a lineup that had been a bit top-heavy in 2022. Their two most notable transactions took place within the first few weeks of the offseason: reliever Erik Swanson and pitching prospect Adam Macko were shipped to Toronto for slugger Teoscar Hernández, while the M’s dealt Jesse Winker and Abraham Toro to the Brewers for second baseman Kolten Wong.
Both Hernández and Wong are in their final seasons before free agency. Milwaukee had exercised a $10MM club option on Wong before trading him in what amounted to a roughly cash-neutral deal considering they took back Winker’s salary. Seattle took on a decent chunk of 2023 money to accommodate Hernández, who’d earn $14MM for his final season of arbitration eligibility (compared to the $1.25MM Swanson is making in his first of three arbitration years).
Hernández, in particular, could eventually net the club a compensatory draft choice by rejecting a qualifying offer and signing elsewhere next offseason. Yet both trades were primarily about bolstering the lineup in 2023 while avoiding the longer-term downside associated with a multi-year free agent deal.
To this point, neither player has met Seattle’s expectations. Hernández is sitting on a .215/.260/.396 batting line over 154 plate appearances. That’s nowhere close to the .283/.333/.519 line he’d compiled between 2020-22 to pick up a pair of Silver Slugger awards and down-ballot MVP finishes. His raw slash stats always seemed likely to dip somewhat with the move from Rogers Centre to T-Mobile Park. This has been a far more significant drop-off than is solely attributable to park factors and Hernández is performing worse on the road than he is in Seattle.
Hernández has popped seven home runs, putting him on a 27-homer pace over 600 plate appearances. He’s still barreling the ball up and making hard contact when he puts the ball in play. The middle-of-the-order form he’d shown for years in Toronto still looks to be there. Yet his plate discipline has been rough thus far, resulting in a career-worst 3.2% walk rate and a massive 35.1% strikeout percentage.
Selectivity has never been Hernández’s specialty. He’s always been an aggressive hitter, one who’s willing to trade some walks for power impact. He has pushed that too far to the extreme through his first few weeks in Seattle, though, as he’s chased nearly 40% of pitches outside the strike zone. It’s the 23rd-highest rate among 204 hitters with 100+ plate appearances; Hernández was closer to league average in that regard during his last few seasons in Toronto.
Wong, meanwhile, has been one of the least effective hitters in the majors to this point. He’s yet to connect on a homer in 94 trips to the plate, posting a .195/.287/.220 line overall. He has played well through his first five games in May after carrying a .171/.263/.186 slash through the end of April. The Mariners weren’t counting on Wong to be an impact bat but surely hoped for something approximating the solid .262/.337/.439 showing he put together over two years in Milwaukee.
The lefty-hitting Wong has long been a quality, well-rounded regular. He’s typically hit around a league average level, compensating for fringe power with plus contact skills. At his peak, he’s been a Gold Glove second baseman and a plus baserunner. His typically stellar defensive marks dropped off during his last season with the Brewers, as both Defensive Runs Saved and Statcast’s Outs Above Average gave him subpar grades in 2022.
Wong attributed his defensive drop to playing through leg injuries, offering some hope he’d turn things around after an offseason of rest. The early returns haven’t been promising, however. DRS has pegged Wong as an MLB-worst eight runs below average through 226 2/3 innings of second base work; Statcast has him one run worse than expected. Public defensive metrics can be wildly variable in small samples, but it’s a discouraging start for the 32-year-old’s efforts to recapture his formerly excellent form with the glove.
Without many early contributions from Hernández or Wong, Seattle’s position player group hasn’t been especially good. They’re 22nd in runs scored (157) and 25th in both on-base percentage (.302) and slugging (.372). After accounting for their pitcher-friendly ballpark, they’re 19th in offensive production as measured by wRC+. Their pitching and defense has kept them around average overall — they’re in fourth place in the AL West at 18-19 with a +14 run differential — but they’ll need more out of the lineup to earn a repeat playoff berth in an American League playoff mix that has 10 to 12 teams with realistic aspirations.
There’s certainly time for Seattle’s top offseason acquisitions to get things back on track. The M’s have by no means played themselves out of contention. Whether they make a serious run for the division and/or a Wild Card spot could be determined in large part by how quickly Hernández and Wong find their previous levels. With both players headed to the open market six months from now, their free agent outlooks are also to be determined based on their performances this summer.
too bad the most profitable baseball team of 2022 didn’t have the budget room to pursue any significant free agents.
Perhaps, they just didn’t want to give out 18 million per year for a guy like T Walker and his 5.97 ERA.
Perhaps the front office could have found some players that would have been worth the money.
They weren’t shopping for starting pitching, so yeah, you’re right.
Name a few players whose contracts would have made sense.
You apparently forgot that we’ve discussed this several times before. If you can’t remember, that’s on you.
Trea, Xander, Correa, Swanson, Judge, Conforto, Nimmo were all available to bid on. It appears they didn’t really sniff at any of them.
How would Michael Conforto and his .171 AVG and .622 OPS improved the M’s this year?
How is .622 OPS better than the .563, .530 and .322 OPS of the top three players the mariners have started at DH this season….I dunno…u tell me ?
The point is if Michael Conforto is the answer, the question isn’t going to be pretty. I guess he’s an upgrade, but you’re going from sucks to bad.
@Lonesome Tug- We were notably reported to have checked in on Trea Turner who had zero desire to stay on the west coast.
Yeah, and the reason was they spent payroll in ways that have not paid off.
That was the reason they didn’t have “budget room”.
The free agent class outside of Judge, wasn’t anything to be proud of or a must have. It was really a weak free agent class
Well… Turner, deGrom, and to some extent Correa, but yeah mostly
That might be the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen yet tonight.
It was one of the best free agent classes we’ve seen in years.
If anyone’s argument is that there wasn’t anyone good, or a star player wasn’t worth the money he got, they should probably just call it a night and start fresh tomorrow..
Some contracts didn’t make sense for certain teams due to budget restrictions, elite upcoming prospect talent, etc. But that doesn’t mean a player wouldn’t have made a team better.
@stevil how is it ridiculous? Most of the free agents were nothing more than roster fillers. Judge was the most watched and wanted guy. DeGrom has had maybe 2 solid years with the Mets out of what, 5-6 years? He’s not killing it with Texas. 6 starts and 3 have been 4 innings or less. Then went on the injury list after his April 28th start.
The free agent class was weak this year and there is no argument about it. Every guy was utility guy or a roster filler. More and more teams are starting to lock up high profiled starters. Which leaves utility and journey men available during free agency. I sort of like these extensions the players are getting now. It closes the gap from being a team who develops players and later see them sign with larger market teams.
Win some, lose some.
That goes for trade expectations, as well as being the old axiom and disclaimer for games played..
There is stll time, however . . .
Could always be worse, Brian Cashman could be their GM. 🙂
How about them Yankees! They are crushing it this year! Holding down the basement so far this season. Maybe this is Judges FU to the fans for booing him out of the playoffs. Hehehe
They signed a 32 year old Bret Boone to play 2B. He was coming off OPS+ seasons of 65,64,102,83 and 94 and he clobbered the ball to OPS+’s of 153, 114 and 140 in his age 33-35 seasons for the M’s Sometimes the veteran guy works out well.
Walloper, those were some juicy years, if u no what I mean.
That’s just “sour grapes” logic, Plugnplay.
Bret Boone never came under suspicion at any time. He just had a mighty fine year.
he had several post age 30 great years
I remember thinking at the time how Bret Boone came from a great baseball family and would do nothing to sully that reputation.
I still think that held true.
Now now. Don’t you dare accuse the team which tied the major league wins record during the height of the steroid era as employing dirty players!
In fact, one could argue the 2001 Mariners won 116 games because they had clean consciences because they were not taking roids, unlike the other 29 teams who were slowed down by their moral stupor.
Rookie Jose Caballero has helped defray some of the impact of the Wong choice for 2nd base
I think Hernandez will get hot in the next few weeks, but unfortunately I think what you’re seeing with Wong is who he is now. His defensive skills have abandoned him, and now he’s not hitting. I see SEA having to make a hard decision about him in the near future.
He didn’t hit over a 21 game April sample. He’s hit .333 his past 5 games in May. Either way, they are each fairly insignificant samples and I think it’ll take a longer look to determine his present abilities. This hot streak could be a total fluke, but so could his ice cold streak. I think the jury is still out and the range of potential outcomes is still wide.
To be fair, the Teoscar trade made total sense for them at the time. If you can get a middle of the order masher in exchange for a decent reliever and a mediocre pitching prospect, you do it every time. The Seattle bullpen was loaded at the time, and they had a real need for a cleanup hitter type. Swanson and Macko were basically spare parts that they turned into a potentially legitimate masher, and that’s a deal you make 10/10 times. Maybe it won’t work out for them, but it was a smart trade at the time in my opinion.
They also turned two failed experiments in Winker and Toro into a potentially solid 2B both offensively and defensively in Wong. Again, dealing from an area of surplus in order to get a player who plays a position that they needed.
So even if neither move ends up working out, they were both worthwhile gambles for the M’s.
HBan22, Scott Servais just pointed out that Julio is probably trying too hard, overly desperate to live up to expectatons, and that is why he is underperforming right now.
I think the exact same thing applies to both Kolten Wong and Teoscar Hernandez.
So let’s just see how these road games go in the next few days. Some tough teams there and it will be a good test for those 3 and the rest of the team as well.
To be faaaaiiiirrr.
Teoscar also had the benefit of hitting in the middle of lots of other big bats in the Blue Jays lineup. Not that the Mariners’ lineup is full of holes, but could sometimes be a little easier to pitch around him now.
No need to pitch around him. He swings at everything and is missing almost everything. He might try to swing at it if you intentionally walk him.
HBan22….
1. Teoscar trade made sense… Fully agreed.
2. Winker and Toro failed experiments… wellll… players who failed to perform / meet GM’s team chemistry standards who were acquired in questionable deals I think is closer to the truth, but basically just quibbling over words.
3. Wong a potentially solid 2B … ahhhh, no. Purely a one year gap filler as part of dumping the players above. No way Wong at his age and declining skills were considered a great trade target. The interview the Brewers home announcer gave to Seattle radio highlighted the fact that the Brewers KNEW Wong was declining defensively, and the injury to his legs just was another red flag that was ignored.
4. Dealing from a surplus to get players needed… a SURPLUS??? at 2B???? in the OF??? WHO is the Surplus at either position??? especially considering that M’s management obviously knew that Haggerty and Dylan were having surgery in the off season.
Tacoma, I think he simply chose the wrong word. They didn’t need/want Winker or Toro. Moving them for Wong made sense in a vacuum, and with the benefit of hindsight, it still makes some sense.
Most fans wanted one of the big SSs. I did, too, but I don’t think any of their deals made sense for Seattle.
I still think the biggest whiff was not getting another outfielder. Even with Kelenic finally on track, they could have used Teo as the fourth or fifth outfielder and primary DH.
So, in my opinion, the problem wasn’t what they did, it’s that they didn’t do enough.
Hey… I fully agree that the Teoscar trade was very good, and I hope they make trades like that again and again.
I also agree it’s semantics with the Wong trade… but I stand on my assessment that Wong was not a long term solution. He was a way to get rid of problem players and PARTIALLY filled a need for a few months. I believe M’s management was and still is expecting to trade for a 2B at this deadline when/if it was needed.
I still believe the biggest problem was that M’s management had no intentions of trying to win the division… but instead just sneak into a wildcard spot.
Oh, Wong definitely wasn’t a long-term solution. And I’m with ya on virtually everything you just said.
They may have gotten lucky with Caballero. It’s too soon to know, but he was disciplined and stinging the ball in the minors, so maybe they had a hunch that it might carry over? We’ll see, but I think they believe Young will be their future second baseman. He’s on pace for a 2025 debut.
To be fair, I don’t think the management believed they could win the division, regardless of what they did. I certainly didn’t. But I still wanted to see the effort, regardless. It’s a shame that stingy Stanton decided to move the goalposts.
The only thing that’s really changed for me since our offseason assessment is that I am anticipating a significant trade now. It may not involve a lot of cash, but surely they aren’t going to sit on their hands with arguably the best pitching staff in baseball.
tacomarain;
I was watching the end of the Mariners-Astros game on May 5 in Seattle.
Astros up 6-4 going into the bottom of the 9th. Mariners need 2 runs to tie. Teoscar leads off with a solid single to CF. Mainers get some momentum. Tying run at the plate? Un, no. With his team down 2 runs going into the last of the 9th, Teoscar tries to stretch the single to a double. What was the point? Momentum returns to the Astros. They get 2 more outs and win the game.
This is the problem with Mr. Hernández . He plays for statistics and highlights, not to win games. The Jays saw plenty of that for years.
This is a site that talks statistics. Fine. But when they write an article about why the team is not winning games you look at what they do on the field.
Understand also that Jerry Dipoto oversaw the Mariners lay out big bucks for players in his latest rebuild (“Reimagine”) as he had in numerous others before he had a solid young, inexpensive core in place. He traded off most of his young prospects approaching the major leagues for veterans and gave them big bucks. So when last offseason came around he had little payroll space and no inexpensive youngsters to call up and produce for the parent team.
Jerry did this in Anaheim a few times, and now in Seattle twice. Getting a Hernández and Wong looked good on paper in the offseason when you checked the players past stats and took the juicy ones. Unfortunately baseball is played on grass and dirt.
Samuel, I saw it the same way.
And this leads to another whole concept.
Being snakebit.
Most people think of the roster, how to make trades or acquisitions, but I think of the playing of the game.
I said somewhere here that what got hold of Julio to make him so worthless hadd also grabbed Kolten and Teoscar – trying beyond their capabilities to make something work.
We used to call that being snakebit: What affects your star player has suddenly poisoned others.
I still call it being snakebit. And only time can cure it.
So we resume play tomorrow. We hope for the best, for the poison to have drained off.
Here’s hoping.
I wish we would have traded for the present day Ichiro in Arreaz. We have the DH spot for him and he could spell Ty from time to time. Maybe he could have hit some of those runners we leave in base every game in.
Funny you said that….
I argued months ago, that if ownership isn’t going to give the management the budget they had promised (and misled fans into believing they would), we should probably anticipate seeing trades from areas of strength for areas of need.
I don’t know if Arraez was realistic, given the price Miami ultimately paid, but there were (are) other possibilities.
By the way, we might need to start paying attention to Spencer Packard. He has been dominating AA pitching. Not much for power, but he is most certainly a hitter.
Samuel… and Fred, Good to read you again Fred…
I understand Teoscar is not performing, and he has had a FEW bonehead plays on the bases, and even in the OF. He is not Trout. But there was a reason it only cost the M’s Swanson and a single A pitcher to get him. Further, when they acquired Teoscar, the talk was about how hard he hits the ball and exit velocity and other new tech ways to judge a hitter.
Using that process to chose the players you target in trades should work most of the time. Thus, I applaud Hollander and Dipoto for this trade, and I stand by them trading away for relief pitchers and single A pitchers for players that meet their desired criteria / characteristics for years to come. That makes sense.
However, dumping 2 players for a part-time short-term player made a lot less sense to me… but if Winker was viewed as that much of a cancer though and players wanted him gone, then, ..??
As far Dipoto’s history… I’m confident that Jerry, Hollander and their team of cyber experts and scouts have grown up in the past few years and have gotten smarter. Now if they could just get a little more lucky…
Stevil beat me to my similar take… trade for a bat – GREAT!!
Pay that much in prospects to get Arreaz – a lot less excited.
However, M’s management better start figuring WHERE they are going to be spending more money in the coming years, because the number of voices clammering about their lack of bringing in talent to team with this pitching staff will only grow in size and volume… and we will be heard.
No matter how times I’m called spoiled, demanding, impatient, and a fair-weather fan… we will be heard.
Stevil, goods points aside from the SS available. I have a hard time with any explanation that the ‘big 4’ SS would not make sense. Adding talent at the expense of dollars the team absolutely has. If you can afford a team you can afford the players.
I love JP. He is the teams emotional pulse. You can’t tell me he wouldn’t have moved to 2B to get help and bring a better chance of winning to Seattle.
I am very familiar with loving your players too much. I think, IMHO, that mgmt and fans in the NW fall in love with their flawed darlings more so than being open to the chance that new blood can also bring success.
It really depends on how you look at it.
It’s easy to say Bogaerts or Swanson would have made sense right now, looking only at their numbers with the benefit of hindsight. I didn’t think either were great fits long-term. I still don’t. I personally liked Turner, but if he turned down 342m from San Diego, what was it going to cost Seattle? Even if the state tax in California was off-putting, it was still going to cost Seattle a ransom–if he was even interested. You have to consider future needs as well, Speaking of which, 3B may be an area of need sooner than expected.
It’s easy to say ‘just spend’., and I generally agree with that. But there still has to be a line. The mistake, again, if I wasn’t clear, is that they didn’t spend anywhere. Can’t get a SS? So be it, get Nimmo, get Carpenter, get someone. Once it was clear they were going to commit to Kelenic, Pollock made sense. They just really needed a slugger to face RHP as the bare minimum. We got La Stella instead.
I would have been fine with moving JP to 2B this year. I was also fine with leaving him at SS as long as they made clear upgrades to the offense.
That didn’t happen. So, here we are, with the same need they headed into the offseason with: offense. I’m not that worried about Wong (and maybe I should be), and I think Teo will probably be streaky. But they really need a bat that can play the outfield (still), in my opinion.
They need to spend a little more than they are. They are 40 to 60 million behind the teams in our own division besides Oakland. I won’t be mad if they use that to lock up Kirby, Kelenic, Cal, Walter, or Miller in a few years. If we are out of it by September they should bring Sir Harold Ford up and see if he can be our 2nd baseman next year. That way they can tell us they can’t afford to pay any big free agents, or put out rumors that no big time players want to sign with them.
First of all, excellent response! I know throwing money at a problem doesn’t always net the results you want (Steve Cohen hello!). I get it. The Ms have been skinflints for a long time. Maybe Robbie or Beltre scared them away. Maybe Trader Jerry felt confident in their hitting instruction approach and went with what they had.
There had been a long running joke on Twitter (I forget who) that would rate Fa signings aby the number of Aoki’s the player cost since he was the last big FA signings the Ms made for a paltry $5.5mm (so $55mm signing would be 10 Aokis!). The fact that they knew they needed something as filler and were left to pick last at the dance was a slap in the face. LaStella for the minimum (I’m a lapsed Cub fan) did nothing for me at the time and Pollock for $7mm was so mid I’m still pissed. If you believe in your guys then don’t bother with mid level garbage. You could’ve brought back Santana for $6mm! Profar was out there awhile (and I forget about Carp but yeah him too). Wong feels a lot like ’22 Frazier (which I wrongly loved at the time for contact purposes).
Perhaps the off-season felt cheated bc Two was so early (another Jerry landmark–set the market before you get priced out). Someone else mentioned they sniffed Trea who wanted no part of this. I get it, Seattle is far af from the rest of the country. But you got Castillo and Jrod. Not hard selling points to advertise the future.
Perhaps it will go to extensions which is fine but they need to continue to garnish the roster bigtime. Just don’t tell us you can’t afford it when you’re printing money and hosting the asg.
What’s out there this winter…. Hoskins, M Chapman, Ohtani (feels like a dodger already), Tim Anderson (option), Bellinger, some guy named Winker 😉
I’m sure once Julio’s extension goes off the books Stanton will let the GM sign someone else. They get away with it because they offer the $10 tickets and cheap food. So the younger fans come to the game for that stuff and don’t really focus on the product on the field. I’m sure they could afford Ohtani just off the profits from the city connect release.
It doesn’t matter how they compare to other teams in spending, it’s just about how they can make themselves a legitimate World Series contender.
I don’t think they need to worry about extensions, either. They’ve proven themselves capable of producing/developing and fixing starters and relievers alike, and they’re already due to get nearly 7 years out of Kirby. They might be better off focusing their dollars on free agent bats.
Cal is a Boras client, so we can pretty much forget about an early extension with him, and Ford may provide the perfect insurance, anyway. He (Ford) isn’t likely going to debut this year (or next), but he’s handling C and the OF well. I’m not anticipating him moving to the infield. I like what we’re seeing from Caballero, and Seattle has Young to potentially take 2B or succeed JP at SS. I don’t think that’s enough, and of course Wong is likely gone after this season, but at least there’s something in the organization.
The development of players like Ford and Young absolutely factor into their spending plans. But ultimately, the reason we haven’t seen any big bat free agents is because of budget restrictions. Highly likely, anyway.
I’m just hoping our first 3 picks can propel us back into top 10 farms and we can be reloaded in 4-5 years when Julio and our core is in their prime. Or they could trade that first comp pick for another bat.
A lot of what we saw in the offseason feels reactionary. I believed Justin and Jerry when they said there wasn’t room for Santana. I think the trade for Wong came together only after they realized they didn’t have a real shot at Turner or one of the other FA SSs and that may have changed things. Keywords: May have.
But how that led to La Stella still puzzles me. He wasn’t able to play the field and they knew he wasn’t 100%. Never mind what they said about wanting someone who could cover 3B, he couldn’t even cover 1B.
I realize all the decent FA options were gone (I never considered Profar a good option), but was there nobody better available via trade?
The positives are the pitching (and I praised the depth they were accumulating) and the play of Kelenic and Caballero. Hopefully they’ll find another bat and get Moore back before too long.
For the record, I’m not sold on the other internal options.
Again, it’s not what/who they can afford, it’s who fits. I have no idea what kind of restrictions are in place, but one thing I hate about the we-already-spent-on-extensions excuse is that the salaries for Luis and Julio are nothing this year. Luis is being paid like a second-year arbitration-eligible player and Julio’s making less than Pollock. They absolutely could have spent more. It didn’t have to be a 300m player.
Ohtani is everyone’s dream. But as I mentioned somewhere in this mess of a thread, he would be more of an upgrade. I would hope that they have a controllable bat to address DH before the offseason, and the rotation is projecting to be Castillo-Gilbert-Kirby-Miller-Woo. They might be better off targeting someone like Chapman.
I’m good with them underperforming for at least the next three days !! 🙂
Go Tigers !
I hated both those trades. Wong sucks in hitting and the glove. TO is a K machine at the plate and a butcher in the OF. Winker is a lefty bat who can draw walks. What’s worse, is their wunderkind CF is having a bad case of see the ball hit the ball.
What I really hated was that Teo was their biggest offseason move.
I think the problem is deeper than just these two players. The “Control the Zone” philosophy preached by the organization has been pretty much abandoned by their hitters, and the coaching staff isn’t doing anything about it. The M’s have really become a bunch of free swingers (as shown by their chase and whiff %), and too many of the hitters, including J-Rod, are still obsessed with launch angle and exit velocity instead of contact. Just watching J-Rod makes me cringe right now because his swing is a carbon copy of Evan White’s; that’s not a compliment.
But this isn’t an isolated incident or stretch. The M’s have had horrible batting averages for several years now (yes, I know… OBP > AVG, but if you’re not walking, then AVG matters!) The team can’t lure free agent hitters to Seattle because T-Mobile Park is still one of the worst (if not THE worst) hitters’ parks in all of MLB… and that’s after they brought the fences in a few years ago. That’s why they rely on trades so much.
I think they need to make some serious changes on the coaching side for the hitters in order to improve the results. Otherwise, it’s just rinse and repeat.
100% agree. Problem seems to be on the coaching side because these guys are taking some seriously bad at-bats.
The coaches take a lot of the heat, but experienced hitters have to be able to find the adjustments to their swings and approach and execute.
That said, Teo and ‘Geno have always had a lot of swing & miss in their game. Seeing those two whiff isn’t exactly shocking. It’s just that they’re doing it more, probably because they’re pushing too hard.
When I think of hitting, you only have to look as far as the Astro’s that lineup is full of hitters. Dipoto done a good job with the pitching but more balance is needed. If were a small market team then that can be explained but then that’s not the case. They need to make a genuine effort in fixing this lineup with better hitting, this reminds me of the Seahawks how for years they could never get that OL. fixed they would just end up putting it together with duck tape whereas in the end it always came back to fail them. If putting a pitching team is Jerry’s specialty then fine someone who can bring in better hitting.
The problem isn’t just that Teo and Wong are off to slow starts, it’s that their other offseason acquisitions, Pollock and La Stella, have underwhelmed, and Suárez, Rodríguez, and Haggerty haven’t hit well, either..
This is an offense that had little room for regression or failure. La Stella’s already gone, and though Kelenic & Caballero have impressed, the Mariners are missing on multiple cylinders.
Getting Moore back might help a little, but really, they need an external bat or two.
The new players off to horrible starts, bargain basement shopping, Julio struggling and Jerry’s insistence on using a parade of .210 hitters at DH, it should be no surprise they are under .500.
Limp performance for Wong so far on all fronts.
Trading for Teo/Wong was the right move but never going to be enough. Unfortunately this is not a playoff team unless all of them start taking more competitive at bats instead of hacking at everything. As someone else said, I think a big part of the problem is coaching.
Bring back Edwin Encarnación.
Jerry is going to have to give up one of his vaunted minor league starting pitchers to get a bat at the trade deadline if that’s what they choose to do there will be a Santana type out there to get and maybe that will turn this team around
Justin (the GM) isn’t likely going to give up one of their top pitching prospects for a one-dimensional rental bat.
But a controllable bat, like Rooker…
I don’t think they’re going to trade for a guy who was s claimed off of waivers by Oakland i really like Santander and put him at DH/OF
The Dipoto-era Mariners have shown interest in countless players that were discarded by other teams. A player that is in the 90+ percentile of nearly every significant offensive category certainly has Seattle’s attention, and it’s the SSS & lack of a regular defensive role that might just make him affordable.
That’s mainly why the mariners are not contenders every year because they shop in the clearance rack for players…Spend money for god sakes!
Well, it’s worked with pitching and bench/role-players.
I hated seeing them go cheap with La Stella. But Rooker is no longer a freebie. They would have to spend prospect capital, or solid MLB players, to net him.
That said, yeah, they should be spending.
BTW for anyone thinking Ohtani is coming next year as a free agent forget about it! Dipoto will trade for a 4th outfielder as our big off-season acquisition
Ohtani is the inevitable subject that is going to generate a lot of talk.
We know Seattle traded prospects just for the right to offer him more money. The interest in him was real, and probably stronger than it has been for any other player in the Dipoto-era. I don’t think we should forget that.
But….
Seattle has their ace in Luis Castillo, 3 more starters that look like solid number 2’s, plus Ray, who is arguably a solid 2 when healthy, plus a very promising Bryan Woo who is off to a great start in AA (threw 7 innings of 2-hit, 0-BB baseball last night).
They will likely address their DH dilemma with a role player between now and the end of July. If it’s a controllable player, there will be one less need moving forward.
Most people are obsessed with the money Ohtani is going to command, with some people suggesting he could get a deal worth 600m.
Two things about that:
1. He will go where he wants to go. I doubt he cares about racking in the most money possible He didn’t care about that when he asked to be posted and the deal he eventually gets will almost certainly make him the highest-paid player in MLB history. His ability to control where he plays may be more valuable, so a deal loaded with opt-outs wouldn’t be surprising.
2. Would it really make sense for a team that has been tight really put virtually all their eggs in one basket for a pitcher/DH, when they already have the number one pitching staff in baseball and may acquire a bat just as good to DH?
Ohtani doesn’t really make a ton of sense for Seattle for all those reasons.
I should be clear that I would welcome Ohtani! I’m not suggesting I don’t want him to play for the Mariners, I just have a hard time believing Seattle would be willing to pay that kind of dough, whatever it may prove to be, for a player that would represent more of an upgrade than addressing needs.
That could change if they were to trade a controllable starter for a bat, but Ohtani still feels like a longshot.
I don’t see the Mariners offering Hernandez the QO. They’d have to be afraid he’d accept.
Depends how the rest of the season plays out. Of course they’ll let him walk if his bat doesn’t come around. But if his second half looks more like 2022 then they should extend a QO.
If it looks like he’ll provide value in the lineup, an overpayment on a one year contract is a safer bet than overpaying on a long term contract for a free agent, or the prospect cost of a trade.
Teo chases anything low and away. Every time.
Didn’t expect Wong to fall off that hard so fast. He looks like a sunk cost at this point
Bring Frazier back.
Come on, don’t throw meanwhile into the middle of your sentence, Franco. Start the damn thing with it.
Sincerely,
Your high school English teacher
P.S. stop sleeping in class
Team building is hard. There is no full proof “right” way to do it. As much knowledge as we have gained over years through advanced statistical analysis, baseball teams still have qualities that are impossible to quantify. Most teams and their GM’s have no choice but to learn this lesson the hard way.
Take the Blue Jays for example. They did an exceptional job of tearing down an old roster, acquiring and developing exiting young talent, and adding proven veterans to smooth out the rough edges. But even after doing everything “right”, the team still seemed to plateau last season. They were good, but not quite good enough to get over the hump. This offseason they moved on from Teoscar and Gurriel in exchange for Kevin Kiermaier, and Dalton Varsho. The stats don’t imply a major difference, but the overall effect has been huge. Getting the right fit can mean more than raw stats and fit is hard to quantify.
Ask the Cardinals how much they miss Yadi and Pujols. On paper, Contreras and Nolan Gorman are an improvement. The reality isn’t so. People say clutch isn’t real, but it’s real in the heads of opposing pitchers. Yadi could have been in a 0-50 streak, but in that moment, with the game on the line he was still a guy who had been there and done it a thousand times. He knew it and the pitcher knew it. That still matters. The same with Pujols. He might have been a shadow of his former self, but he was still Albert f*ckin& Pujols.
The M’s will get it figured out. A lot of things have to go right at the same time when you’re chasing a team like the Astros. It’s easy to get frustrated when you have to watch a team like the Rangers having success after spending huge sums. But it’s a long season.
Don;
Am not that sure what you wrote will prove to be correct about the Jays as the season wears on. The O’s are for real (as Braves manager Brian Snitker said last week after playing the O’s) and the Red Sox seem to be jelling on the field.
As for the Rangers – on the player acquisition side I have my doubts about their being successful. However, the manager and pitching coach they hired are another matter – thus far it seems the FO is supporting them while standing back and not interfering with what they’re doing. I still like the Angels ahead of the Mariners in the AL West – IF – the players show up prepared to play fundamental baseball most days, which they weren’t the first 3-4 weeks of the season. And therein lies the problem for the Mariners – it appears the Astros (playing well again after a slow start), Angels and Rangers simply have better teams, managers , and coaches.
Unfortunately. with the way MLB is played today, which teams make the playoffs from the AL East and AL West may well come down to which teams suffer the least long-term injuries to key players in 2023.
That’s completely fair. Both divisions are tough. I still like the Jays but I could be wrong. I have compared the Giants to the Red Sox several times in the past and that’s still what I see. Boston’s hitters have all performed well so far, but it still seems like a mishmash roster that could nose dive at any time.
It’s hard to discount the Rangers. De Grom and Seager have been hurt and they have continued to play well. The Angels are just going to have to prove it for a full season before I believe. Seattle still has what everyone else wishes they had in young pitching. I see them as a team that might be one ingredient short before really blossoming.
It’s still possible the hitting can get better by means of inhouse development only that would require time as well as speculation meanwhile that seems to be what their doing right now. The only player that holds any intrigue for me is Marlowe, and Ford maybe Marlowe will get a shot soon, It could be that one or two players, and A better effort/ performance might turn the tide around if figuring this out sooner then later Dipoto is going to have to dip into his pitching vault, that might happen but don’t hold your breath.
Watching Teoscar Hernandez has been sheer torture. He swings at anything (and lately often misses), especially if it’s high and outside, low and outside, low and inside, high and inside… did I cover it all? He is a strikeout machine. As a Mariners fan, I hope he can turn it around and be at least an average hitter… his career numbers suggest he probably will. But his glove isn’t much better than his bat, he is like Winker 2.0. Maybe they need to use Hernandez as a full-time DH, and get someone else to play RF?
I just want to say, this is the kind of headlines that will do well here. With lots of participation by interested fans. There are lots of nuggets to be paned, something to chew the fat over. I mean look at Stevil he’s been bound up so long that after crashing through the door he’s all over the place. He’s the bird in the coal mine. I know all is well when I hear him chirping incessantly.