Cardinals outfielder Tyler O’Neill has been on the 10-day injured list since May 5 with a lower back strain. He was slated to go on a minor league rehab stint today but the club announced yesterday he’d be held back because of continued soreness.
Manager Oli Marmol told reporters today that O’Neill will meet again with the club’s doctors to try to determine the source of the ongoing discomfort (relayed by John Denton of MLB.com). It’s not presently clear how much longer St. Louis will without its Opening Day center fielder. Prior to the injury, O’Neill had been off to a slow start offensively. He’s hitting .228/.283/.337 with only two home runs and a characteristically high 34.3% strikeout rate. The Cardinals also quickly pushed O’Neill back into his standard left field role after flirting with the idea of him manning center.
St. Louis is also without Dylan Carlson after he landed on the IL earlier in the week. The Cards brought up Oscar Mercado from Triple-A and they’ve begun getting Tommy Edman work in the outfield. The switch-hitter has started three straight games in right field after playing exclusively in the middle infield thus far. Edman, who left this evening’s game due to lower abdominal soreness (via Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch), is off to a strong .274/.331/.467 start to the year.
Edman is a quality defender up the middle but his flexibility has allowed the Cards to get the hot-hitting Paul DeJong back into action. DeJong has been much maligned because of his offensive struggles between 2020-22, but he’s stormed out to a .290/.355/.594 slash with six homers in 20 games since being activated from the IL on April 23. That’s been enough for the former All-Star to force his way back into the lineup at shortstop.
The Cardinals also called up left-hander Matthew Liberatore for the first time this season yesterday. He tossed five scoreless innings in a win against Milwaukee, building off a strong first few weeks with Triple-A Memphis. The one-time top prospect had a 3.13 ERA with excellent strikeout (30.3%) and ground-ball (50%) rates over eight starts in the minors preceding his promotion. With St. Louis’ rotation turning in generally lackluster results, Liberatore looks like one of the organization’s most intriguing arms.
Marmol confirmed that Liberatore will get another start during next week’s road trip between Cincinnati and Cleveland (via Jeff Jones of the Belleville News Democrat). That came on the heels of president of baseball operations John Mozeliak suggesting earlier in the afternoon the Cards could use Liberatore out of the bullpen in the shorter term (via Brandon Kiley of 101 ESPN). The Cardinals won’t have an off day until May 31, marking a stretch of 19 consecutive game days. That figures to put a fair amount of stress on the pitching staff.
St. Louis has used a starting five of Jordan Montgomery, Miles Mikolas, Adam Wainwright, Jack Flaherty and Steven Matz. None of that quintet has an ERA under 4.00, with Montgomery’s 4.21 mark the only figure that isn’t pushing or exceeding five earned runs per nine. Depth starter Jake Woodford, who’d gotten six starts while Wainwright was on the IL in April, had a 5.72 ERA before hitting the IL with shoulder inflammation two weeks ago.
The Cards can mash so with decent starting pitching they will be in the race.
When they’re hot, they’re hot, but they can go cold like the flip of a switch, and stay that way for prolonged periods of time, as we’ve already seen this season from the same group of players. The same guys that put the team in last place, and had the worst start to a season the franchise has had in 50+ years. They’re on a roll right now, but I won’t forget how the same studs can become duds overnight.
With that said, IF the offense consistently plays up to its potential, its capable of offsetting a mid-grade pitching staff, which is the gamble Mo & Co decided to take this season.
Certainly hasn’t been a mid-grade staff thus far, but the point stands.
Personally, I think the Cards are very much in the hunt, but that’s more indicative of the middling division than anything else.
Trade deadline move for a starter and the birds are in the mix for a legit playoff run. Let’s go!!!
Goes for any team streaks are a part of a 162 game schedule. Some fans need to calm down. Especially with this streak and looking like the real team. Too many bad thing early on, also as weather warms up so do batters.
I think Contreras shut a lot of haters up and made cubs fans jealous of the catcher they see so glad to give away.
Remember last years people so willing in their trade ideas to give up Gorman and Libby.
So pretend GMs calm down. Real fans know this time is always a winning team.
“Contreras shut a lot of haters”
The haters were his skipper and management.
As a Cubs fan, I hate the Cards, but even I recognize how loaded that lineup is. And I do feel they will battle the Brewers for the division when all is said and done. And speaking of “done”, the Cubs look cooked. They need high leverage relief help.
Interestingly enough, they actualy have been getting decent starting pitching lately. That’s part of why they’ve been so hot.
Marmol might be the worst manager in baseball. There are definitely 3-4 guys fighting for that honor, but Marmol might take the cake. This guy is a front office yes man, who has already gone out of his way to alienate several players. They should fire him now, and potentially save their season.
Bud Black will fight tooth and nail to hang on to that crown.
You spelled Derek Shelton wrong.
Oneill trade value gone.
Maybe the Yankees will want him
A confused Brian Cashman thinks he’s trading for Paul O’Neill
I have no faith in Oli’s leadership. Fortunately for the Cards, Wainwright came off the IL to provide that. I think the guys are more likely to listen to Adam speak than Oli.
I agree, I think it’s a lot easier to listen to and take advice from a guy who’s been there, done that, like Waino has.
Than take your faith elsewhere as you can’t appreciate his leadership that got us a division title last year and on a hot streak now.
Oli is an incompetent fool.
Faith doesn’t equate with stupidity.
Take your suggestions elsewhere.
Oli does seem incompetent, but why are faith and stupidity not connected in your mind? One could say faith and stupidity are quite closely intertwined.
You could, rottingham.
You’re lost in the woods.
Is that a Haiku? Cool.
Rottingham, lol. Maybe the Cards should trade for his hero Altuve.
Finally a sane fan
You should probably stop calling other people morons if you are willing to defend Marmol after his god-awful mismanagement in game one of the playoffs last year.
When was that? It was pefectly reasonable to send Helsley out to pitch a second inning. It just didn’t work. It was much more the offense’s fault they lost that game (and the series) than anything Marmol did.
Did you watch that game? He was at least one, if not two or three batters late in pulling Helsley, who clearly didn’t have it that night.
Helsley clearly did have it in the 8th inning, so that was plenty of reason to give him some leash in the 9th, when you normally don’t pull your closer at the first sign of trouble in the first place.
It was a single then two walks that weren’t particularly close. It’s game one of a three game series so there isn’t a lot of leash available. If the walks were closer, maybe, but no one was surprised when he hit the next batter. His control was clearly gone.
Shildt got destroyed for bringing in Reyes against the Dodgers the year before but Reyes just got beat by an incredible offense. I’ll defend that. Marmol’s decisions were absolutely awful.
He also got the first out in the 9th before the mess started.
Anyway, you can certainly argue for one batter earlier, but that’s still not an “absolutely awful” decision, merely a bad one. It’s not like Pallante did much better after he came in, anyway. If Pallante had gotten a game-ending double play instead of coughing up the rest of the lead and then some, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
On top of that, it was just one decision. In order for his “decisions to be absolutely awful,” there need to be multiple cases.
I apologize, Oli. You’re doing a great job and sorry I hurt your feelings. Trust me, I’m the ONLY one questioning your leadership.
And what is up with Marmol putting his hands on players’ mid thighs while they’re seated on the bench and he’s talking to them? Saw it again last night with Hicks.
Dude! Back up from being between the legs of your players and get your paws off, weirdo!
9-4 without O’Neill. 10-22 with him. I’m not blaming him for all of the struggles, but getting his moping, unhappy body language out of the dugout gives the team a different look. This is why I mentioned the possibility of a trade in the last thread.
Tyler O’Neill is a far better player than Oscar Mercado. But Mercado fills a role that is needed without putting pressure on Marmol to find him playing time. He can be a pinch runner, defensive replacement, spot starter in CF against a tough lefty. Obviously O’Neill can do all of those things, but he won’t be happy doing only those things.
I have nothing against O’Neill. He was the MVP of 2021’s amazing second half. But he doesn’t have a clear role on this team and he hasn’t forced them to create one. I think he would be happier somewhere else and I think it would make the Cardinals’ clubhouse a looser, less tense environment.
As an addendum to further clean up the outfield situation, Dylan Carlson probably needs to spend June and July in Memphis similar to the way DeJong did last year. Those coaches down there know how to turn a player around and help them get their confidence back. Carlson needs that in a big way. There is plenty of coverage available on the ML roster. Carlson can go down there and work out what he needs to work out with no pressure to rush back to the big stage.
Totally agree on both players. O’Neill has not played well since his great year. Maybe it’s the pressure of the failed extension talks. Also can’t seem to stay healthy long enough to heat up. Too bad his trade value is lower now.
Carlson is our best centerfield option. The dude has a ton of potential but just cannot seem to get it going. A nice extended rehab stretch in AAA may be what he needs.
Except Carlson had already started to turn it around when his progress was interrupted with his current minor injury. He’s perfectly capable of continuing that progress at the Major League level once he returns.
He’s a bodybuilder. Bodybuilders are moody self-absorbed individuals by nature.
rottingham with the usual clueless take
Roides have been known to do that to you, haven’t they?
So does your Pamprin.
I think the team that steps up and trades for O’Neill will be SD. He’ll be the perfect addition to an oddly constructed roster. Padres are masters at pounding square pegs into round holes.
I was thinking maybe Miami. They are hanging around .500, but with Jazz going down, they have an immediate need for a CFer.
Good call there. O’Neill might be able to give them some consistent production they’re not getting from anyone else right now – Soler is feast or famine, even Arraez has been slumping lately, and Segura’s -1.3 WAR, .211 BA, 0 HR, and 5 RBI make him a black hole in the lineup.
Being a far better player still trumps all those minor advantages you listed.
Besides, O’Neill will still get plenty of playing time to try to prove himself again with Burleson having lost most of his playing time and only Nootbaar having truly claimed a starting OF role at this point.
Cards need to address their pitching woes if they wanna compete. As good as the offense has bren latelt they won’t score 16 runs a game every night, but there pithing is more likely to continue giving up 8 a night.
Enter Eduardo Rodriguez who is pitching lights out for the Tigers (except for last game). He can be had for the right deal and will cost you less than a comparable pitcher because of his opt out. They have some nice BP pieces too. Give the Tigers a call and ship off some of that prospect capital, or work a deal that includes O’Neill and a prospect.
They’re not going to trade any prospects for a risky contract when they’re still this far out. Look at their past history. They only trade players they consider to be spare parts in-season.
If the Cards only trade ‘spare parts’, that also is what they usually get in return. Their starting pitchers are less than mediocre.
They’re not that far out, it’s May. 6 games is not insurmountable. It’s even less for the final WC spot. Again, it’s May
The starting pitching has actually been pretty good lately with Mikolas and Matz seeming to have finally figured things out and Liberatore as a nice reinforcement. It was the bullpen that gave up most of those runs last night.
It will still likely need an outside reinforcement in July for the team to contend, but we always knew the rotation had the talent to be much better than they were in April, and they’re finally starting to show it. If these improvements stick, if we can get more consistency from Flaherty, and Wainwright figures out his issues in the middle innings, it will once again be the above average rotation or better that it was expected to be.
@ Landric…good overview…people are bashing the starters and they do deserve it a little lol, but they are coming into form, especially if Flaherty pitches like his last start…Last night…Cabrera has been good but wasn’t last night…but then again that was a good lineup
All players can be had for the right deal. That’s the only type of deal which will result in a player being had.
You’re not getting ERod for O’Neill and a prospect. Let’s get real.
I’m a Tigers fan and lots of people seem to think we won’t get anything decent for Erod because of the opt out, which I disagree with given how he has pitched and the high price on pitching these days. I do agree that the opt out lowers his price, but someone will pay up to acquire him. O’Neill is a good player who is a change of scenery candidate and if you add in a decent prospect to boot it would definitely be way more than anyone thought we’d get before the season started. They should just flip us Gorman for Erod like I said in the preseason and everyone would be happy Welll, everyone wearing a Tigers jersey!
Gorman won’t be going anywhere unless it’s for a top of the rotation controllable pitcher. He’s an outstanding middle of the order bat now playing second base well. He’s obviously a hard worker who is still getting better. He’s greatly improved both sides of his game in one year.
Although, would the rebuilding Tigers want O’Neill, who will be free agent after 2024? I’d think they’d prefer guys like Burleson or Yepez who they could control for longer than that.
They can address their pitching at the deadline if need be, until then expect them to blow past MKE by the deadline maybe sooner. The Brewers injury situation has decimated their roster, especially their rotation with the Miley lat strain likely to keep him out until late in the year. Now down 3 starters, with Lauer ineffective as well.
Plus, the Brewers had a relatively poor offense even before any injuries. Brian Anderson has been a nice surprise for them, but that’s been offset by Winker’s bat not rebounding like was expected. The rest of them are the same bats that didn’t do enough to help them contend for the playoffs last year.
They’re basically only winning the division by default right now between the Cardinals’ horrible start and the lack of talent in the rest of the division. Still, that could be all they need as long as they still have Burnes and Peralta at the front of their rotation and Woodruff returning at some point this season.
The Cardinals will be back to their customary place atop the NL Central before too long. This team has too much talent. And the teams ahead of them are lacklustre and inconsistent, with Brewers looking especially vulnerable to me.
Agree that the Cardinals are very much in the race to win the NL Central. JMHO, but they most likely will win it. Are they that good on offense to overcome less than stellar SP? Probably not, but the NL Central is a cast of average to below average teams. I’d be a lot more pessimistic if they were in the NL East or NL West.
Fact is, if the Cards are gonna be dancing in October, winning the NL Central is their only true shot. Teams like LA, SD, ARIZ,, ATL, NY and PHL are clearly in better shape to occupy one of the three wild-cards.
As for their main rival in the NL Central, the Brewers just haven’t been hitting. I suspect that will change at some point so don’t discount them. Most likely only gonna take 85 or 86 wins to capture the NL Central. Milwaukee is capable of doing that, too.
Are you sure about those Wild Card chances? The Mets, Phillies, and Padres are also disappointing teams playing under .500. Assuming the Dodgers win the NL West and the Braves win the NL East, what team in the National League other than maybe the Diamondbacks looks like a clear playoff-caliber team right now?
The Cardinals have better overall playoffs odds than you’d think, because most of the entire National League is mediocre or worse so far!
Until the Cardinals get back to .500, they’re not in contention.
Despite what the dog pile in the NL Central says.
I will not be happy if Liberatore is moved to the bullpen while pitching the way he did last time out. There’s only one starter with an ERA under 5.
Make that two starters with an ERA under 5. Mikolas now has his at 4.91.
Cards miss their cornerstone – Yadi.
Keep thinking that.
Thanks, Dog, I’m glad I have your permission. Means a lot to me, I was worried I upset you. Close call.
Edman no longer a switch hitter. Only bats RH now.
So far it depends on the r/l splits of the pitcher. He still bats left when the right handed pitcher has a drop off against lefties.
What are the chances they’ll pick up DeJong’s options? And in the scenario that he’s making that decision a clear one, what are the chances Edman would become available in trade?
The Cardinals will have 5 legitimate players vying for 2 middle infield spots. Someone in that group will be traded imo. Which one will depend as much on the trade partner as the Cardinals desires. DeJong is making it an easy decision to pick up that option. He will have to have a significant drop off to change that.
At this point, it looks pretty likely, even if it’s only to trade him.
Edman isn’t likely to be traded unless absolutely necessary. DeJong is the far more likely MI trade option if his improvements stick enough to where his option gets picked up, as even in that case Edman would still be under team control for two additional years beyond 2024. Meanwhile, someone needs to play 2B to Winn’s SS starting next year, Gorman is a much better DH option, and Donovan is better as a utility player.
Gorman has been quite respectable at second. A bat like that at second is a huge plus. He’ll be a $350 million plus man if he continues as he’s been so far this year.
We’re still well in small sample size territory here with his 2B defensive marks. The team will reevalute his potential future fit there after the season, I suppose. In any case, his 2B defense is still no match for a Gold Glover like Edman.
Maybe Gorman moves to the infield full time once either Edman or Arenado leaves as a free agent?
Putting Gorman at second allows another big bat at DH. As long as he’s league average at second, I’ll do that every time.
Maybe, but only if you actually have another big bat to use at DH, one whose offensive value supasses the combination of Edman’s offensive value AND the difference between Edman’s and Gorman’s defensive values at 2B. That’s a higher bar to clear than you’d think.
Now Jordan Walker may very well be that guy next year, although in the case that he’s not in the OF on a regular basis, I’d very much prefer to keep both O’Neill and Carlson than trade one or the other..
It always bugs me whenever DeJong is described as a former All-Star. The 2019 Cardinals were strange in that while they were an above-average team as a whole, nobody was putting up any All-Star caliber numbers until Goldschmidt and Flaherty had monster second halfs.
DeJong was clearly not a deserving All-Star and only picked due to the rule that every team needs a representative. It’s the only clear cut case I know of on a team that went on to make the playoffs (and even advanced to the NLCS) that year.
He was mashing for a shortstop with outstanding defensive. I think he deserved that selection and the contract extension.
The contract extension, yes, but he only had a 109 OPS+ while hitting .258 with 13 HRs and 36 RBIs at the All-Star Break in 2019. Even with his good defense (which still isn’t Gold Glove level), those aren’t by any means All-Star caliber numbers.
He had 3.1 dWAR and 24 defensive runs saved in 2019. Gold glove or not, that’s elite defense.
Elite defense still isn’t going to help you get an All-Star nod in the 21st Century with such paltry offensive numbers unless you’re a catcher.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make this a reply. Just ignore this copy of the comment.
It always bugs me whenever DeJong is described as a former All-Star. The 2019 Cardinals were strange in that while they were an above-average team as a whole, nobody was putting up any All-Star caliber numbers until Goldschmidt and Flaherty had monster second halfs.
DeJong was clearly not a deserving All-Star and only picked due to the rule that every team needs a representative. It’s the only clear cut case I know of on a team that went on to make the playoffs (and even advanced to the NLCS) that year.
Harrison Bader: .832 OPS.
Thoughts?