The A’s have reengaged with various landowners as they look into potential stadium sites in the Las Vegas area, report Howard Stutz and Tabitha Mueller of the Nevada Independent. According to the report, A’s officials have recently been in contact with land holders at multiple Vegas-area locations that had previously been under consideration.
It’s a bit of a surprise considering the A’s already announced a land purchase agreement for 49 acres west of the Vegas strip three weeks ago. The Nevada Independent report suggests the A’s are scoping alternatives as backup plans. While the agreed-upon site still seems to be the organization’s top priority, it’s somewhat notable they’re also exploring other options.
It seems there’s at least some concern the A’s won’t get legislative approval for their stadium plan at the site they’re already buying. To date, the club’s only agreement has been the land purchase. They have not finalized a stadium deal that’d set the stage for formal relocation. Indeed, they’ve still yet to even put an official proposal up for consideration in the Nevada legislature. They’ve expressed plans for a 35,000-seat ballpark that’d involve a $1 billion investment from the franchise in addition to $500MM in county-issued bonds to be paid by tax dollars related to the stadium project.
Without a formal proposal on the legislative docket, though, there remains some uncertainty whether the plan will be greenlit. “We haven’t gotten anything concrete yet of exactly what it is that they’re looking for, or what they would like us to take a look at,” a state senator told Stutz and Mueller last week. “So it’s tough to have conversations about what exactly we may or may not do, and time here is finite. … We only have a few more weeks left, so if there’s going to be a deal, it’s got to come very soon.”
While there’s no indication the A’s are seriously alarmed about the prospect of negotiations falling through, it’s clear they’ll have to accelerate talks in the relatively near future. The Nevada legislature remains in session through June 5, though they could call a special session to continue negotiations into the summer.
Oakland mayor Sheng Thao announced at the time the A’s entered into the Nevada land purchase she was ceasing discussions about a possible stadium project in Oakland’s Jack London Square. She later left open the possibility for reopening negotiations, though it’s clear the A’s efforts for a Vegas site would have to be in peril for that to happen at this point. There’s still nothing to suggest the A’s are considering sites outside Nevada.
In any event, there’s a clear target date for the A’s to have a binding stadium agreement in place. A provision in the collective bargaining agreement mandates that the organization have a formal stadium deal by next January 15 if they’re to retain their status as revenue sharing recipients. The A’s lease at RingCentral Coliseum runs through 2024.
Keep the team in Oakland and make the owner sell the team. This is preposterous.
City doesn’t want anything to do with them. The A’s have been in 3 cities so far (Philly, KC, Oakland) so why is a 4th so preposterous. Load up the wagon and move on to greener pastures in the desert.
Greener pastures? Google Lake Mead water level and Colorado River water usage deal. Places like Las Vegas and Phoenix might not want to commit to large amounts of population growth and water usage…
Greener pastures with artificial turf then. At their current rate, they could go anywhere, Anchorage A’s? Fallujah A’s?, and have higher attendance.
Maybe if they didn’t purposefully bomb every season like Bush bombed Iraqis, the fan base would show up.
Can’t fault the fans for not supporting a team that shoots for below mediocre.
case: As you probably know, California had a horrendous winter with one atmospheric river after another dumping the Pacific Ocean throughout the state. That water helped fill Lake Mead and the Colorado River substantially. At least for the time being, there seems to be enough water to satisfy 35,000 people if they fill their new ball park assuming they sell out every game, which is unlikely.
mead.uslakes.info/level.asp
Lake Mead doesn’t have enough water. It didn’t fill substantially, where did you get that info??? It got a boon but it’s still not good. It’s currently at 1050ft which is still historically low.
It’s like 30% filled.
And in what world does a horrendous winter signal that a region can support the water needs of a 35k stadium for “the time being”? Is the time being a single season?
I laughed so hard at this. But it’s true
Maybe nobody wants to play there because they don’t want to get shot on the way to work.
So true! The growth is out of hand. At some point H2O will cost more than gasoline in the western states. Invest now…
“Maybe if they didn’t purposefully bomb every season like Bush bombed Iraqis, the fan base would show up.”
Would you rather they bomb like Obama did? Afghanistan, Libya, Pakistan, Iraq… or the hospital in Kunduz? At least he paid the families $6,000 for their loss.
Or maybe like Bill Clinton bombed countries like Somalia, Iraq (hmmm, I see a pattern here) Bosnia, Liberia, and Afghanistan (hmmmm).
I guess you are right… Looks like Iraq gets bombed every administration.
Just to add more to your support, I am a hardcore fisherman who fishes all these reservoirs you’re talking about including most of the ones in the Central Valley of California. Most people have their heads in the sand, even with this horrendous winter as you call it, it’s still not enough to keep up with demand. Yet they still keep building homes.
What water problem? I turn on the tap and it flows freely … there will come a day when nothing flows from that tap.
And here in Southern California they are now building 10 to 20 story apartment homes. In other words more densely populated
If only somebody could figure out how to use that big blue thing on the left side of California on the map… desalination is a lot more cost effective than attempting to dig a canal to the Mississippi River like they want the Army Corps to do.
That would mean nobody wants to play in America
this was suppose to in response to @haighwiser
Purposefully bomb every season? You’ve got the attention span of a gnat.
They’ve been in the playoffs six of the last 11 seasons.
Unless someone can make the byproduct of that, salt, a valuable commodity it will be slow to happen. There are many challenges to overcome besides just cost…
Yes, they do it in the Middle East. But you’re talking 35 million or more people in California alone. That’s a tremendous amount of salt that would be generated
I don’t think anyone is moving to Vegas just because the A’s did. There’s not going to be 35,000 people move to Vegas because their baseball team did. Their fan base will be locals and be using around the same amount of water they would use at home.
They plan to build housing around the stadium and having a large new complex of the stadium/stores/residential zones is going to cost the city a lot (roads, plumbing, all of that stuff is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer) and will definitely result in a higher net water usage compared to whatever it is now.
Surprisingly, when I googled Nevada’s reliance on federal tax dollars they’re quite low on the list, almost as good as California, I’m guessing that’s dominated by tourism $$$ so I suppose it should be partially up to the local business community.
This country can’t build a wall or a pipeline and you want them to make a desalination plant? Just have China ship us the water.
“City doesn’t want anything to do with them.”
This is only because John Fisher has destroyed the team and refuses to spend to improve the team or stadium. John Fisher got all of his money from mommy and daddy (founders of The Gap). He’s a billionaire cheapskate. Mindblowing that anyone could blame the city here.
Fisher doesn’t care if more people come to the games. He only wants 500MM in public money to realize his vision of leveraging a baseball team into a massive real estate deal. Once they get that Braves Battery style complex built he’ll probably sell the team and keep the housing and retail space.
Unfortunately it doesn’t blow my mind at all. It’s the same crowd that wants more cops on the streets, but has no problem handing over a half trillion to a billionaire. Because government bad, and they’re “self reliant” despite being entirely dependent on Social Security and Medicare to keep a roof over their heads.
Half trillion?
You failed math didn’t you.
$ 500 Million is half a Billion , who failed math ???
Why would Fisher sell ? The A’s were the 5th most profitable team in 2022 . In MLB the truth is you don’t have to spend money to make Millions $$$$ . I’ve seen this movie before , Major League .
The A’s weren’t anywhere near the 5th most profitable team in baseball. No one knows, of course (including you) because only the Braves and Blue Jays release any financial information at all, but I can guarantee you the A’s are in the bottom 10 in profit. They have no revenue streams except MLB.
thebiglead.com/posts/mlb-teams-profitable-revenue-…
$ 62.2 Million in 2022 , 5th most. reputable source
“No one knows, of course…”
“I can guarantee you…”
The A’s have never drawn well, except for post season. The stadium is a dump, one risks life and limb going to a night game and traffic is terrible.
They should have moved years ago.
The A’s have never drawn well, except for post season. The stadium is a dump, one risks life and limb going to a night game and traffic is terrible.
They should have moved years ago..
Forbes is a pretty reliable source . remember they spend nothing and get national tv local tv .
From the financial side, the revenue will be split to give each team $60.1 million annually; Combined with local TV deals that are worth at least $40 million each, every MLB club will make at least $100 million from TV deals alone, according to Craig Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus:
2022 payroll was $48,443,900 according to Spotrac . not including any other revenue and excluding other commitments . so $62.2 Million seems pretty accurate .
Fisher has been an owner since 2005 and the sole owner since 2016 . Notice the decline since 2016 .
Oakland attendance
2000 -1,728,885
2001 -2,133,477
2002 -2,169,811
2003 -2,216,596
2004 -2,201,516
2005 -2,109,298
2006 -1,976,625
2007 -1,921,844
2008 -1,578,922
2009 -1,408,783
2010 -1,418,391
2011 -1,476,791
2012 -1,679,013
2013 -1,809,302
2014 -2,003,628
2015 -1,768,175
2016 -1,521,506
2017 -1,475,721
2018 -1,573,616
2019 -1,662,211
2020 -COVID
2021 -701,430
2022 -787,901
seems pretty good considering how Fisher has been trying to tank and sell off all of his good players when they starting getting paid more than a couple of Million . The fans finally woke up the last couple of years and boycotted Fisher . If they had a real owner that would spend even an average payroll they would come back if they had a better stadium. even with a new one in Oakland the fans would never trust Fisher . Look what Loria did in Miami , he promised he would spend if he got a new stadium and the first year it opened he held a fire sale and ditched all of the expensive ones and the franchise has been a bottom feeder since .
Too many numbers
This was corrected after the fact, as it accounted for the A’s receiving 100% of team revenue sharing, which they did not.
“A story published on Thursday, March 23 and in the sports section on Friday, March 24 incorrectly stated the Oakland Athletics’ revenue and profit in the 2022 season due to a miscalculation by Forbes. Oakland’s revenue was $212 million, last in all of baseball, making their profit only $29 million, which ranks 16th out of the 30 MLB teams.”
msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/correction-correction-oak…
Based on current attendance in Oakland, I’m pretty sure that the triple A facility in Vegas could accommodate them at least in the short term.
Manfred is elected by and works for the team owners. That’s not how this works.
Lets use other people’s money to build a stadium that I own….. hmmmm
Maybe the As should just build the stadium they can afford with their $1 billion.
maybe if they didn’t DoorDash so much avocado toast they could afford that extra $500 million.
Avocado toast? That’s so pre-pandemic. It’s an açai bowl now.
What if they cut both out??? Then the As could have solid gold floating stadium that could travel to any city.
That gold won’t float. But I like this idea. The Any Bay A’s!
If Chuck Finley was still alive, he’d be kicking himself that he didn’t think of that himself: ” GM (insert name here). Drop anchor!”
Hey I like where this conversation is headed. As and Rays floating stadia that would sail up and down the pacific and Atlantic seaboards respectively – adapt to weather patterns and seasonal whims: sorta a lollapalooza /traveling medicine show/circus/barber of Seville sideshow. A roster full of carnies: which actually sorta matches the core operating philosophy As roster construction is all about . And if the local authorities wise up and bust in with a midnight raid to stop the grift, they can pack up and bolt, one step ahead of the law. Who says no?
The Las Vegas Açaí Bowls does have a nice ring to it.
Chuck Finley the former Angel? Yeah, he dropped anchor in Alamitos Bay in Long Beach, California. He is alive and doing just fine.
His ex-wife from the Whitesnake videos? She is the one that’s no longer with us
And Bachelor Party- Tom Hanks’ 2nd best flick
Read an op ed from the Vegas paper and people already seem angry. Said there was at least SOME reasoning for subsidizing the Raider’s stadium, adding a huge stadium venue for concerts and other events in the city, but for a second stadium there’s no real reason other than corporate greed and political corruption. Also pointed out how unfair it was to local businesses (not receiving free government handouts) that will lose tourism dollars to the new shops around the stadium.
There’s money to be made by bringing Major League baseball to Las Vegas, if done right. The A’s ownership will have the foundation in place to field a competitive team, they’ll have no choice…
Vegas spreads its cheeks for corporations. I still laugh about that hyperloop garbage Musk sold them and they lapped it up. Who wouldn’t want an underground road that goes in a circle, that moves people at the futuristic speed of a…car. And can move as many people as…a single car. With the added benefit of the potential lithium battery fire in an enclosed space!
Yea, but which corporations will it be? The op ed included a side mention of how MGM has “proven” a casino can hold major concerts and events. Not sure if that’s legitimate or the writer’s a minion of theirs, but in either case it sounds like some of the Casinos don’t want the new complex going in.
That’s interesting. Sounds a little like posturing by MGM to get the As to reach out and partner with them in some way.
Wouldn’t be surprised in the not too distant future to hear “Attention As fans, don’t forget to place your wagers on todays matchup at any of the MGM kiosks located at along the concourse. And don’t forget, MGM will match any deposit if you enter the code”
Uh…that already happens. Kiosks, partnerships. Everywhere but California and Texas it seems
The Raiders struck first before the A’s and benefit. The football stadium probably does help conceptually for the Super Bowl and/or Final Fours, etc.
But Vegas literally has dozens of places for shows and concerts. It’s Vegas.
I have no idea how the ballpark idea will work, but my guess is the taxpayers aren’t going to end up putting in 500 million bucks.
Despicable-name a baseball team that owns their ball park that was paid for by tax payers.
This is such a tired old meme. The state (and city) would make all that money and more in taxes from increased economic activity, especially since Nevada is a very high sales tax state. The reason cities sometimes turn down new professional teams is not economic, it’s to avoid increased traffic and noise. The idea that bringing in a major league team (not just building a new stadium for an existing one) would lose money for taxpayers is asinine.
No, you’re a tired old ma’am. Take your voodoo economics out of here old mother Reagan.
yeah, this isn’t true at all. like, not one bit lol
This ownership is utterly incompetent. Manfred needs to force a sale for the health of the sport at this point
A curse on Manfred, how can somebody be so bad that I wish for the halcyon days of Bud Selig?
Bud Selig is the one who blocked the sale of the A’s to Joe Lacob, who spends a lot of money on the Warriors.
All time awful decision by him as well.
Selig also put way more effort into keeping teams in the same area.
I suggest building in a desert and siphoning off even more water from the Colorado River
Don’t worry, angry Youtube incels have assured me that the drought conditions are just a conspiracy formulated by people that read books.
They use toilet to tap.
The below the valley floor is an aquifer. They run pumps continuously to keep the water from surfacing.
There’s a “after people” show that focuses on Vegas years after humanity disappears… Cool show.
As a Las Vegas resident let me tell you a few things. For one we are the smartest about our water. The real villain in the water is California that takes most of it and hasn’t done anything out in place to be more conservative with it. If California did what we did the water levels would not be where they are today. And on the note of water levels there are projects in place for a water pipeline of sorts but that’s in the beginning stages. And on the note of the A’s.. we mostly welcome the prospect of Major League Baseball in our city. We have a huge support of the minor league team the Aviators who ironically are the AAA team to the A’s. They even have some sort of deal where for a season or two playing their games at Las Vegas ballpark while they build the new stadium. They talk of a special legislation session to push the deal through because it’s going to happen. They had tried for what 20 years to get a new stadium while the city dragged their feet. We enter the picture and the only thing between us and the finish line is a legislative session to ok a tax around the ballpark to finance the 500 million. Do you know how much it would cost if we had an expansion team? Triple that. And it could also be worse. Look what Tennessee taxpayers are on the hook for with that new stadium for the Titans? 500 million for a franchise to represent our city seems a pretty low going rate. Sorry Oakland, the A’s are coming to Las Vegas.
The Aviators are not selling out a 10k seat ballpark. Averaging just 6900 attendance.. Much smaller towns like Albuquerque and El Paso are drawing over 7k this season in the PCL. There are a half dozen Intl League teams that are outdrawing the Aviators. So no, Las Vegas does not have huge support for baseball.
As of today, the A’s are not going to Las Vegas. No land purchase yet. No agreement to fork over $500 million in taxpayer dollars to build the stadium. Not even an outline that the folks in the legislature can vote on yet. And they only have until June 5th.
Not looking good Kemosabe.
They can surpass June 5th by special session. And when you’re talking about a *potential* economic development engine like a mlb franchise, you’re probably going to get a special session just to have the debate.
That doesn’t mean anyone will want to approve anything, but, to have the conversation, knowing the need to fix things in stone for the revenue sharing deadline which is firm matters and would basically require the special session?
They’re not worried about June 5th.
It’s not an economic development engine. No new money magically comes in just because they built a stadium. Tourism doesn’t increase. Money spent by tourists and locals on other things starts to be spent on baseball. The only thing it does is pad the wallet of the owner of the team that convinced the local government to give him a half billion or so of taxpayer’s hard-earned money. The city, county, and state won’t be bringing in more money. There won’t be more jobs overall in that metro area as a result of the new stadium. All that will change is where existing money is spent.
Las Vegas is amazing with water conservation. That’s because they need to be in order to thrive.
The other states that either directly or indirectly supply water to Las Vegas have no obligation to adjust their operations to help conserve water. It’s hard to chastise someone for their water practices when you’re using their water.
California is allocated 4.4 million acre-feet of water per year out of the Colorado River, more than any other state. Best as I can tell, California doesn’t supply water to Nevada in any way, either. So I think the original commenter isn’t wrong for saying “Hey.”
Regardless of if the stadium is in Las Vegas or Oakland, water is coming from the Colorado river for it, though.
A single county in California provides the majority of animal feed for the entire country. Nevada provides… a desert for people to live in? California is playing hardball because if the question goes to the government they’ll support a supply chain provider.
Appalachian. No water in Oakland comes from the Colorado River. Take a map. A huge river runs into the bay area coming from the Sierra Nevada mountains.
Las Vegas gets all its water from the Colorado River.
LA and the rest of southern California does get water from the Colorado river. 20 million people from Ventura to the border with Mexico rely on it.
I’m going to say this again. Blaming Californians is ridiculous. All the natives have left the state. Almost all of my family now in NV. None of my neighbors are from California, none of the people I work with are from California. And right there is the problem, these people come in from out of state, do not understand or seem to care about the water situation here, and simply don’t understand that most of our water is imported from hundreds of miles away. I happen to be a native Californian who practices extreme water conservation because I’m a fisherman who has seen the drought first hand for many years. My sprinklers have been off since last October, how about yours? Also, I live in the city of Cypress which borders the City of Long Beach in southern California. We are lucky to pump all of our water out of the ground from the San Gabriel River aquifer. We even pump water over to Catalina Island from our city. Perhaps we could share some of our huge excess this year with Vegas? Nah? We already support your economy enough, besides, you are A’s fans now…
According to the US EPA, California doesn’t rank in the top 12 is water usage per capita. Take a guess at what state ranks 5th.
1st is Utah, then Idaho, Wyoming, and Colorado.
I was a little surprised that Louisiana and Oregon were higher in per capita water usage than California.
That #5 state? Nevada.
epa.gov/watersense/data-and-information-used-water…
Nevada (and I think Utah?) are both great with the water, but California is the food basket for a huge swathe of the country. People in SoCal probably need to calm down with expanding population into the desert, but a huge amount of the water goes into a useful product that provides the country with a diverse food supply. This is always going to be more important than people that want to move into drought ridden states that heavily rely on federal tax dollars.
Utah and Nevada use much more water per capita than Californians do.
Once again it is socialism for the rich. 500 million MINIMUM in taxpayer cash given out as welfare to billionaires. That is the starting cost. After that, tack on tens of millions more for infrastructure, water and sewer and roads, and energy, plus. If taxpayers pay, they must own what they pay for. No more free cash for rich guys! And in a few years, these rich guys will be blackmailing yet another city/region demanding more free cash or they will leave. Teams need to be owned by the fans/regions, just like the Packers, countless soccer teams, the O’s used to be…
Fans Against Socialism for the Rich
This, to me, is the fairest, most logical argument against the move. It’s really the only argument against the move that I feel makes sense. Otherwise, the team should move to Las Vegas. It’d be beneficial for the franchise. Every time a wealthy owner wants to increase the value of his franchise, however, it seems it’s always everyone else that foots the bill. That’s not fair because when/if Fisher sells that club, he’ll fetch a larger price for it in Vegas.
Yeah, the government should snatch those teams from the rightful owners and give them to the fans. That’ll teach those socialists!
But WAIT!!! They said they had a binding agreement to buy a 49-acre piece of land. If they actually bought the land and didn’t just take an option, why would they need to have options?
Could Fisher and Kasal have been lying this whole time just to push Oakland to pay the $350 million more taxpayer dollars the team asked for at the last minute? Imagine that!
Or maybe Clark County said no to the $500 million in bonds that the taxpayers would ultimately be responsible for paying. As the article said, it’s not even on the docket yet and there have to be public meetings held about it before they can even vote. Politicians looking out for their constituents. Imagine that!
The Coliseum Authority said they are losing money on the A’s lease and would not agree to extend it beyond this season if the A’s went forward with plans to move, so where will the A’s play next season (and the next half dozen) if this all falls through?
Fisher and Kasal have shot themselves in the huevos by announcing a move before they had an agreement with Clark County and the City of Las Vegas.
Open meeting laws. Agendas. Multiple meetings to approve anything.
The ‘potential’ move was always going to come out before it was approved. Better to just release it on your terms, in your time, how you wanted it to be.
Maybe, just maybe, they should have met with local government in Las Vegas to hammer out an outline of an agreement prior to cutting off their only avenue of of retreat. Now they are royally screwed if they can’t pull off the impossible and get an agreement both completed and voted on by June 5th.
It took 2 years for the Raiders to hammer out their deal. The A’s are going to accomplish that in exactly 4 weeks? When they have not even closed a deal on the LAND, let alone $500 million in taxpayer dollars?
There are ways around that. Such as the special session.
Another stadium *will* add jobs. Temporary ones in construction. Long term ones in the stadium itself. Income taxes from player payrolls.
I’m not arguing jts a good taxpayer investment. There’s studies, accountants to do present day value calculations, all sorts of bs to wade through and still argue if it matters, positive or negative, to the state coffers.
But remember just how small Nevada is population wise, and, what the impacts good and bad will be.
Local gov’t is pretty tough to get ducks in a row ahead of time. Perhaps, just perhaps, ownership decided part of its negotiating strategy with the new city is to try to influence opinion by having the plans, and opportunity to bring the club into town, public before hammering out terms?
Good idea or bad? Arguments both ways. But in the end only opinion that matters on that judgment call is ownership that saw value to proceed how they did.
There are plenty of options for the A’s. Look at MLB history. Brooklyn moved to LA they did not have a stadium built and ready for them. They played in the Olympic Colosseum for a couple years until Dodger stadium was built. California Angeles were an expansion team that played several seasons at Dodger stadium until the Big A was built. Blue jays played in Buffalo due to Canada’s covid restrictions. The A’s could play at the new AAA stadium in Vegas until there stadium is built.. If MLB wants them to move the team it will happen.
I’d like to add that the Los Angeles Angels played at Wrigley Field in South Central Los Angeles from 1925 and through their inaugural season in the MLB in 1961. Both the Dodgers and the Angels moved into Chavez Ravine in 1962 until the Angels departed in 1966.
Yes, there were two Wrigley Fields. Plus a long forgotten about Cubs spring training facility on Wrigley owned Catalina Island just off the coast of Los Angeles.
A new stadium will not add jobs. There will be jobs at the stadium and surrounding businesses that didn’t exist before, but there will not be more jobs overall in the region. Those jobs will just move from other entertainment industries to the baseball stadium and surrounding areas.
There will be no increase in taxes. There will just be money spent at the stadium instead of elsewhere in the region.
There will be no appreciable increase in tourism. Just look at the Raiders. This past season 92% of ticket sales were to people with a home address in Nevada and 84% in Clark County.
The Athletics ownership has had years to get an agreement in place. They took options on land in Las Vegas starting in 2019. This is not a new option for them. They have been talking about moving there for 4 years now and they don’t even have an outline of a plan that they have presented to the local or state government in Nevada.
That they supposedly had what the President of the team described as a binding agreement to buy a parcel of land and are now looking at other sites tells me that they never bought that land.
It looks more and more like that they did the same thing they did in 2019 and 2021 and took an option out on a parcel, something that costs very little, to try to convince to Oakland, which sits in the 6th largest media market in the nation, to pay that extra $365 million for the infrastructure for the ballpark at Howard Terminal.
As recently as 2019 the A’s drew 40,000 fans to games against key rivals like the Giants while playing in what is universally seen as the worst ballpark in MLB. Telling your fans not to come to the games was a bad idea and that is what Kaval did.
Before last Wednesday, the last 2 games I attended at the Coliseum were in 2018. Tuesday July 3rd vs the Padres and Saturday July 21st vs the Giants. The attendance at those games was 30k and 56k respectively in a season the A’s were playing right around .500 ball until August.
Last Wednesday the announced attendance was 2.7k, but I doubt there were 1k there. Most were there only to protest Fisher. Tell them NOT to come and they won’t and that means the team is losing money. 2.7k attendance doesn’t bring in enough money to pay the ushers, let alone all the other expenses. Fisher and Kaval made a bad decision.
The only option in Nevada for the A’s is a 10k seat minor league ballpark.
The Colisuem in LA sat over 75k in the 1950s. Dodger Stadium capacity is 56k I think.
Sahlen Field in Buffalo is the largest minor league ballpark at 16,600 in capacity. It seats 6600 and with more than the Aviators field in Las Vegas. The Blue Jays footed the bill for $5 million in permanent improvements to the ballpark to play there plus an additional $200k per game for temporary lighting trucks and other temporary improvements and personnel that a minor league team normally doesn’t have. It would cost even more in Las Vegas to bring that ballpark up to MLB standards.
The teams playing in that tiny stadium would be forfeiting millions in revenue because of its size. do you really believe that 755 of owners would approve of having to lose money to play in that stadium for the 3-4 years until a stadium could be built? Do you really believe that the other owners would be willing to lose millions per season each from national TV deals because the A’s would be playing in the 40th largest media market vs them playing in the 6th largest now?
Look, there’s absolutely an increase in taxes.
1) if a team runs a $80m payroll for on the field, do you mean to tell me those players don’t pay income tax on the 50% of games that happen in state?
OF COURSE THEY DO.
2) if the team is in Vegas, you don’t think the executives, managers, scouts, analytics dept, and everyone else won’t pay income tax on their salaries?
OF COURSE THEY WILL.
Dont you think the team will be exempt paying into payroll taxes, unemployment insurance for the state, all the rest?
OF COURSE THEY WILL.
How about sales tax on merchandise? Good and food bought and sold in the stadium and team stores?
How about property taxes on nearby redeveloped areas?
You say no jobs… big projects require hiring extra workers. Additional work for subs to finish.
People likely spend MORE than they otherwise would. Prople who aren’t interested in a purely gambling trip, but are interested in baseball, may come to town and crack open the wallet.
To claim there’s no tax income, no economic driver going on that net benefits the state is ridiculous.
Citing high attendance when a rival, a NEARBY rival is playing does nothing to refute the premise that it wasn’t a mass of As fans but a mass of Giants fans fuelling ticket sales.
Well, the LAD fans can just as easily go to Vegas, as a giants fan drops to Oakland. Its not a bad drive, no need for a plane or anything.
No, there wasn’t a closing on the land parcel. Without state approvals for things, businesses don’t do that. They got generally buy land for a contingency plan.
What your references to ’19 and ’21 tell me is that Oakland isn’t serious about keeping the As in town, and, that they’ve had a long time to fix the situation but kept kicking it down the road. The team explored a plan b, LV, and Oakland started to act like they would fix the As issues, so, the team backed off. If anything, I view it as the municipality jerking the team around and not the other way.
There is no state income tax in Nevada. No state payroll taxes. So, the answer is no to your first three points.
I guess the fact that the sales tax paid is the SAME sales tax those SAME people would have paid elsewhere. WHOOSH. That is the point going over your head. Another point you got wrong.
There have been studies across America and not one stadium pr arena increased employment or tax revenue in the region. The neighborhood immediately around the stadium or arena? Yes. The city or county? NOPE. Not a bit. Another point you got wrong.
People don’t magically start earning more money just because there is a baseball team in town. So NO, they won’t spend more money. Another point you got wrong.
People are NOT coming from out of town to see the Raiders. A team that had a strong southern California following. 90% of those tickets sold are to locals. Tourists are not coming to see the A’s play either. They are coming to party and gamble. Another point you got wrong.
The Padres are a local rival? The POINT is that the A’s can and did draw lots of fans in Oakland, even to that pit of a stadium, even on a weekday. The ownership just has to give them a reason to. Telling them you were not going to try to put a winning team on the field so they should not come to games is NOT going to get fans there. Another point you got wrong.
Dave Kaval said the team had a binding agreement. If it was binding, then the deal would have to be completed. Obviously, he lied about that. Another point you got wrong.
It’s a 5+ hour drive to LV from LA and you have to stay over night. Its a short BART ride to Oakland and you go home to sleep in your own bed. Not analogous. Another point you got wrong.
What my comment about 2019 and 2021 says is that Kaval lied. They were never serious about moving or they would have BOUGHT land, not taken out an option on land. Another point you got wrong.
The city of Oakland approved the stadium. Fisher came back at the last minute and asked for $350 million more taxpayer dollars. If the deal was not completed in Oakland, it’s on him. 100%. Another point you got wrong.
There is nothing you said that is correct. Not one fact there that says what you think it does.
Websoul – you’re so consistently wrong here it’s laughable.
Step 1 – learn about payroll taxes. Nevada does. Indeed, require paying into state funds for the benefit of all Nevada employees.
Step 2: go read up about how land purchase contracts work. Just because something is a binding agreement doesn’t mean there aren’t break-up provisions. Just like any home sales contract, which is ‘binding’ when both sides sign, there can be an earnest money deposit that’s forfeited as liquidated damages if you fail to close. All types of sales contracts ate binding, without requiring a close.
You discount new jobs opening, drawing more people to live in a region to support the extra jobs. More construction to support more residents. Etc.
You, again, fail to comprehend that people may spend more money, or elsewhere, they otherwise wouldn’t. Even local citizens may find local businesses instead of buying something on Amazon or doing traveling that takes money out of state. Insisting all money in a municipality stays at home, regardless of spending target opportunities is a very 1600s approach, move to the 21st century.
You’re way out if your depth.
So far, in fact, that when I talk about LA you talk about the Padres. A San Diego team. Nowhere near LA.
As of 2022, the state of Nevada does not have a personal income tax. As a result, Nevada employers do not withhold state income tax from their employees’ paychecks. Nevada requires employers to pay for state unemployment insurance taxes (SUTA) and workers’ compensation insurance, Not employees. FEDERAL payroll taxes are still deducted in Nevada.
tax.nv.gov/
Another point you got wrong.
If there is an out, it’s not a binding agreement. It’s an option to buy in which you pay earnest money upfront that is forfeited if you do not consummate the sale Go read up on how land purchase contracts work.
Another point you got wrong.
Stadiums do not draw NEW jobs other than a few FO personnel and again, they don’t pay state income taxes. Their sales tax paid would take a few hundred generations to pay off a $395 million bond.
Everyone else comes from the local community.
Another point you got wrong.
You seem to believe that just because a stadium is built that everyone in Clark County will suddenly and magically start making more money. They won’t. Your maybe’s have not borne fruit anywhere else a new stadium was built. Not in even one place. Locals will spend what their budget allows them to spend and if they spend money on tickets and more money at the stadium then they will spend less money elsewhere in the community. That is not a hard concept to understand. Except for you.
Another point you got wrong.
A new stadium that is taxpayer funded means two things.
#1 – the team owner got hundreds of millions of dollars from the taxpayer and put that directly into his pocket.
#2 – money is taken out of other local businesses and transferred to the baseball team’s coffers. Into Fisher’s pocket in this case.
I mentioned that I went to a game San Diego played in Oakland in 2018 that drew 30k fans on a Tuesday. For some unknown reason you mentioned LA. Obviously, you are not capable of proper reading comprehension.
I truly am sorry that you are either inebriated all day or just not capable of understanding even simple things like NO STATE INCOME TAX and that people won’t magically make more money when a stadium is built. Either way, you are obviously WAY out of your depth.
This article would be a great place to start, but I fear even something as simple as this explanation would go over your head. fee.org/articles/the-myth-that-sports-stadiums-cre….
BTW, Governor Lombardo said today that there will be no special session called regarding the stadium issue. Guess who would have to call that session.
Quoted from my comment – “Before last Wednesday, the last 2 games I attended at the Coliseum were in 2018. Tuesday July 3rd vs the Padres and Saturday July 21st vs the Giants. The attendance at those games was 30k and 56k respectively in a season the A’s were playing right around .500 ball until August.”
Will the A’s win 41 games this season?
Donny – I’ll take the over. But by maybe only 10. I see the A’s losing 110+ this season. We are a shambles and while much of the roster is AAA or AAAA and obviously trying it’s hardest, it is painful to see ex A’s flourishing (Matt Chapman is hitting about 350 as an example) whilst the prospects brought in for those deals struggle like cats in a bag. This is worse than 2015-17 which were thin gruel…
And the A’s made the playoffs for three years on both sides of 15-17.
In a (more) perfect world Vegas and Oakland both tell Fisher to pound sand and don’t negotiate until the team is sold. No city should want a team owned by that scumbag.
Playing all week @the sands …
All the A’s want to do is use Las Vegas as a drawing market like the Raiders. The Raiders have the highest ticket prices in the NFL. The idea is they’ll have a fan base, but people around the country would want to go see their team in Las Vegas. So, spend a weekend, or week in Vegas and then go see you team on top of that. As far as I am concern, they pay their own way to Vegas and not use my money or water in Vegas! Moneyball is a scam just to rake in the money with no thought of winning a World Series which is the Philosophy of most teams in baseball today. Look what it has done to the Yankees?
It’s because most don’t understand what “Moneyball” is all about.
Should never have moved them out of Philadelphia. I miss that team.
I miss the California Golden Seals. And the Kansas City scouts
I hope they can’t get the deal done in Vegas. It would serve Fisher right.
Sounds like a delaying tactic to see how far ownership can stick its hands into the taxpayer pocket. This, right here, is a key problem with the management of MLB. A team that doesn’t compete, is a big taker in Revenue Sharing, insists on playing out every scenario for a buck, and Manfred does absolutely nothing, BTW, are we sure that the agreement to buy 49 acres is actually binding….it hasn’t in closed yet.
Why do I think that almost all these comments have nothing at all to do with what’s going on?
Las Vegas has NFL and NHL, so they are not hurting for MLB, so A’s find themselves with less leverage.
Am I the only who thinks Las Vegas is not a great city for an MLB team? I must say it is better than their current situation in Oakland but as far as potential new markets I would not think Las Vegas was the top city available.
The amazing thing about all of this is the sticking point has been a “ballpark village with retail shopping space”. Every deal the A’s have made for a ballpark has been cleared but the ownership of the retail space has been the issue. John Fisher and Lew Wolff before him basically want to own a mall next the ballpark…but malls are closing all over the United States as people buy most of their goods online. It’s ridiculous. MLB needs to step in and take control of the organization and create a market to sell the team. Keep Las Vegas clean for a new franchise.
Ballpark Villages are prospering.
Unlike antiquated shopping mall areas, they’re being put in what become upscale neighborhoods where people like to go out and do things. Shopping is one of them.
Please, stop drinking.