It’s a pivotal year for the Angels, who could be nearing an inflection point with Shohei Ohtani in his final season of arbitration control. A lack of overall roster depth has plagued the club in prior years. For much of that time, the issue was starting pitching, though last year’s team was plagued more by mediocre contributions from the bottom of the lineup and a below-average bullpen.
Los Angeles had a productive starting staff last season, checking in sixth in the majors with a 3.67 rotation ERA. As MLBTR’s Steve Adams explored towards the end of the year, much of that was attributable to the emergence of a trio of left-handers. Patrick Sandoval, Reid Detmers and José Suarez had performed effectively to varying degrees. Sandoval and Detmers looked like potential mid-rotation types; Suarez was more in the solid fourth starter mold. With Ohtani at the top and the offseason pickup of Tyler Anderson via free agency, Los Angeles entered the year with the nucleus of another strong rotation.
That hasn’t quite borne out through the season’s first month. Angels starters have allowed 4.45 earned runs per nine innings, a league average figure. That’s in part because of a disappointing first four starts from Anderson, but the bigger concern is how hittable Suarez has been. The 25-year-old has allowed 20 runs (19 earned) in 16 2/3 innings through four outings. He’s walked nine batters against 12 strikeouts and surrendered a staggering seven homers. His 10.26 ERA ties that of the recently released Madison Bumgarner for the seventh-highest mark among starters with 10+ innings.
It’s very early in the season but Suarez’s first few starts have been noncompetitive. He’s only completed five frames once. That came against a mediocre A’s lineup that still teed off for seven runs and connected on five of the homers Suarez has allowed. The Angels can’t accept continued performances at that level for very long.
The struggles have mostly come out of nowhere. Suarez never flashed the upside that rotation mates Sandoval and Detmers have. He’d been seen by many prospect evaluators as a perfectly capable back-of-the-rotation starter, though, and that’s what he’d been from 2021-22. Suarez allowed a little under four earned runs per nine in both seasons, combining for a 3.86 ERA/4.01 FIP in 207 1/3 frames over that stretch. His 21.5% strikeout rate was a tick below average but he did a decent job keeping the ball in the park and kept his walks to a manageable 7.9% clip.
While it’d perhaps be in the organization’s best interest to get Suarez some Triple-A work to iron things out, that’s not easy. He has exhausted his minor league option years. In order to take him off the MLB roster, the Halos would have to designate him for assignment and either trade him or put him on outright waivers. If he went unclaimed, they’d be able to send him to Triple-A. Even with his awful first month, it seems likely another team would roll the dice based on his prior track record. Noncompetitive clubs like the A’s, Reds, Rockies and Nationals could find a spot for him in the rotation and hope he gets things on track. Suarez has yet to reach arbitration and isn’t trending towards free agency until the 2026-27 offseason.
General manager Perry Minasian and his front office are left with three choices: keep giving Suarez turns through the rotation, move him to relief, or make him available to other clubs via DFA. To this point, they’re sticking with the first option. Manager Phil Nevin was initially noncommittal after Suarez was knocked around by the A’s on Monday; however, the skipper told reporters Tuesday afternoon the southpaw would make his next start (link via Sam Blum of the Athletic). He’s slated to take the mound for Sunday afternoon’s game in Milwaukee.
“We’ve got to get him better,” Nevin told reporters (via Blum). “He’s talented. He’s worked too hard. And he’s come so far. I’ve gone on and on about how we feel about him and the things he’s done. It’s just right now, it’s got to get better.” Suarez expressed some exasperation. While he pointed to a potential pitch-tipping issue during his Oakland start, he told the team’s beat he “honestly (doesn’t) know what’s happening.”
On a pitch-for-pitch basis, Suarez doesn’t look much different than he did last season. The velocity on his pitches has held steady. The spin on his four-seam fastball is up a bit. He’s getting swinging strikes on 11.7% of his offerings, an exact match for last year’s rate. Suarez has been an effective pitcher with essentially this exact arsenal in previous seasons.
He hasn’t executed as consistently this year as he has in prior seasons. Suarez is having a hard time getting ahead in counts, throwing a first-pitch strike just 57% of the time after starting with strike one at a near-65% rate last year. That’s obviously a disadvantageous position for a pitcher who succeeds more on command and sequencing than overpowering raw stuff. Even when Suarez has gotten himself into favorable counts, he’s had a hard time putting hitters away by leaving too many pitches over the heart of the plate. (This Teoscar Hernández homer on an 0-1 slider is a representative example.)
That the issue seems largely to be about command rather than a drop in raw pitch quality offers some optimism. Suarez needs to execute his pitches more consistently but there aren’t any indications he’s battling physical issues. That said, it’s perhaps tougher to diagnose how quickly Suarez can break out of his ongoing funk, raising the question of how long the Angels can keep him in the starting staff.
A bullpen transfer could allow Nevin to deploy him more selectively as he works on things but that’d be far from ideal. As Blum points out, six of the Angels’ eight current relievers cannot be optioned themselves. One of the two who can be sent down, Andrew Wantz, has been the club’s best reliever so far. Putting Suarez in that mix wouldn’t leave the team with much flexibility and would perhaps force a veteran bullpen arm off the roster.
The Angels could flip the out-of-options Tucker Davidson, who’s been working in long relief, into Suarez’s rotation role while kicking the latter into mop-up duty. Davidson has been quite effective out of the bullpen after struggling as a starting pitcher last season. Obviously, the club’s hope is that Suarez finds his footing sooner than later. Another poor start or two could leave them to ponder a tough decision they weren’t anticipating on Opening Day.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
I’m not really sure why this was unexpected. Canning was going to make this rotation. It was obvious Suarez, Barria and Davidson were redundant pieces, and something was going to have to be done. Not one of those three pitchers has good stuff and they were all destined to be spot starters or long relievers.
I can’t remember any Angel fan thinking Anderson was anything other than a back end of the rotation starter.
Angel fans knew about Silseth, what they didn’t know was that he’d have a .9 ERA in the PCL.
The Angels boxed themselves into a corner with three redundant pieces and they should have done something about it during the offseason.
I’m not sure what’s unexpected.
I saw the phrase “Angels’ unexpected rotation dilemma” and immediately thought oxymoron. For the past couple decades rotation dilemmas have been a core part of the Angels’ identity.
You nailed it with the boxed in comment. They have players who are still young and have talent, but their inconsistency is creating a roster problem that they can’t send these guys down like they have in the past. They have take up roster spots or lose them without compensation to Wavier claims. Teams covet young controllable players that have proven MLB ability. They may have other problems with Rengfio and Quijada if they continue to disappoint. Can’t keep them all.
Quijada was lights out until his last two (including today) appearances.
Quidja was not lights out. He was getting people out but his peripherals were mediocre. He’s a fly ball pitcher with limited command. It’s a bad combination.
I don’t know which Quijada you’re watching. But this guy is not a pitcher. He’s a thrower. He doesn’t know what the ball is going to do once it leaves his hand. Angels need to cut bait.
Suarez is a victim of the pitch clock. He can’t do his customary 3 walks around the mound in between pitches.
Yeah, the best I saw Quijada was the WBC. I think he’s been seen as more dominant because of his performance there. I have yet to be impressed in MLB. If not for a Urshela heads up play, it would have been another Quijada train wreck.
A flyball pitcher with bad command is a bad combination.
Spot on Halo11.
And given this is such a pivotal year for the team, just because underperforming players are out of options, it doesn’t mean you keep shooting yourself in the foot.
Silseth another option now for the bullpen/rotation flip, along with Davidson.
Maybe, just maybe it’s time for a chat with the pitching coach.
Do they trade Ohtani if they’re out of it by the deadline? That’s what everyone wants to know.
60 minutes south on the I-5 sounds like a fine new home to me!
Hey Gwynning, what do you think the Padres would give up for Ohtani?
If I were Perry, I would ask for Jackson Merrill, Dylan Lesko, and Ethan Salas but settle for 2 of the 3, and 2 lesser prospects (lotto ticket types). Unless a bidding war starts, then all bets are off.
Sup Scoots! Geez, how do we predict the market for a unicorn? My gut says Merrill alone might almost get it done, but if Ohtani-san is being dangled then it will be all-out feeding frenzy… and the Pads would have to sweeten the pot for sure. Merrill & Salas for Ohtani and a lotto tick sounds about right? Who freakin’ knows though!
Ohtani just gave up a 5 run inning…to Oakland. It was ugly… 2B, 2HR, 2BB, 2WP, SB.
He read this post between innings, agreed that San Diego would be a better home and is trying to lessen his trade acquisition cost, obviously. 😉
Utah-Yeah but right before that his lead foot landed on the mound and slipped. So it basically messed up his mechanics for the rest of the inning.
Ohtani had just done some baserunning. People tend to underestimate the role legs play in pitching.
I like how Ohtani sucked it up and settled down. Then he tripled and scored, helping his favorite pitcher! The dude showed some major sack.
How far under 500 do you think they have to be to trade Ohtani in July?
With the way things are, any team near 500 in late July will have a chance at the wild card.
I don’t think they will drop that out of it.
Regardless of record, I’d say they’d only entertain the thought if they were 10 games+ out of the WC. Not trying to predict or wish for bad ball, but the Halos would seem to be shuffling already. Rotation woes, bad bullpen, injury concerns and whiff-worthy lineup so far… but there’s lots of time to turn it around (and I hope they do.)
It’s certainly not the end-all, be-all… but Pecota projections have them missing the WC by 1 game. Either way, the Angels will have quite the quandary on hand around the TDL.
Pecota had the Angels winning 88 games in 2022. and making the playoffs. They won 73 games. We don’t talk about Pecota here.
This is a much better team than last year. Much better depth, all but our catchers are major league hitters. Our rotation is full.
Our defense is bad, which can change quickly change when Walsh comes back and the Angels trade or stop playing Rengifo.
Like last year, the pen doesn’t have a lot of talent. That frightens me.
It looks like to me Rengifo is always trying to make the flashy playing the Angels get burned.
He did I last night in RF and today when he blew a DP.in the 4th I think it was.
If not for the slow Twins, the Angels would have the lowest Steals total. They are also one Cole start from leading the Majors in punchouts, too. The power is there, but for how long? Are they just getting lucky with the longball, or is regression ready to set in?
Can a team win enough games with slow feet, bad defense, mega whiffs, questionable pitching and lucky-timing power? That would seem to be this year’s Angels, at least, based on the first month. True- one month does not a season make… but something would seem to need to change the consistency of the club.
I don’t intend to sound snarky; my family members are huge Angel fans and we love going up there from North County. (I’m the guy in the SD cap!) I genuinely want to see them do well and it pains me when they don’t. Color me skeptical, but I’m not sure the Halos have the personnel required. I hope I’m wrong.
Winslow, we agree, he has bad flashy feet.
The word Hot Dog works. Loud works. He never seems to get his feet in position to make routine plays look routine. Let alone tough plays look easy.
They are not getting lucky with the long ball. They’ll be much better defensively when Walsh comes back and they stop playing Rengifo.
Halo- when you say “loud” are you referring to his batting? or his defense or both.?
Both really. But he’s walking, which means his huge swings are tolerable. He’s an all or nothing hitter. Ironically, he’s walking, but he’s not running into a pitch once a week. It’s weird.
I don’t know what to make of his offense. But he’s always has had loud feet and that hasn’t changed. But this is only going to be the second month in his entire career he’s going to have a 300+ OBP.
I watched O’Hoppe hit absolute bombs when he was here in the Phillies system. You guys got a good one in that deal. It was a win-win trade for both IMO. But Logan can hit for power for sure. Shoulder injury aside.
I am not worried about the HRs. This team appeared to have the most 20 HR talent in their lineup. Yes, we are down a couple of catchers and a 1B, but there is still plenty of power. The power will increase in the July as well, as the temperature rises. It always does. It is not like we play at Petco.
I miss the part where our catcher being out 4-6 months is a win for us, but thanks.
Seriously, I do like O’Hoppe a lot and Marsh is tearing it up right now. I have seen Marsh get off to good starts but nothing like he is doing now. I think it was a fair trade. Marsh was blocked by Trout and O’Hoppe was blocked by Realmuto. I am good with it despite the current circumstance. The Angels can find outfielders, but catchers not so much. I can think of tons of great Angel OF but catchers……Bob Boone? Benji Molina?
I think O’Hoppe will be special.
gwy, angel have a better record than padres. besides, ohtani shun teams with japanese players. active or retired.
We can talk Pads all day, and I’m aware of their present record. The subject was Angels ball, and Ohtani. And how do we know he “shuns teams with Japanese players”?? He’s only been on one team, and he didn’t choose Anaheim over Seattle just because Ichiro played there. At the time of his signing, I took Ohtani’s choice as more of a “I want to be with Trout” kind-of vibe. It would seem silly (to me) to suggest he wouldn’t like San Diego because his other idol plays there. Please enlighten me if I’m missing something that Ohtani has legitimately said regarding playing with other Japanese dudes. Thanks!
here you go.
bleacherreport.com/articles/2747062-shohei-ohtani-…
I saw that speculative rant from that garbage BR rag 6 years ago… but has Ohtani ever said anything remotely comparative?
It was well reported on at the time. I heard it on ESPN and talk radio. I never heard anything direct from Ohtani. He did end up signing with the Angels that had no Japanese stars or history of Japanese stars, so there very well may have been some truth to it.
I suppose you guys could be 100% correct, but again I took what he said at the time as more of a “me n Trout” gig over anything said by “The Insiders” who get paid to spew rubbish. If there was an inkling of truth there, I think it was he didn’t want to go to an INITIAL team that already had a Japanese star because he wanted to earn his own legacy, or something in that regard. Idk more than anyone else, but I never really heard him say anything even remotely close to what had been suggested by Moronic… I mean Morosi. My bad! Thanks for the input and chat, Googs and Aragon! Respect
Lucky with the long ball? To funny. That’s what this teams strength will be offensively. Early on, they’re about where they project to be. A few hitters up a tic, and a few that are under and haven’t gone off yet. Thanks for stopping by thou 😉
I think my comment may be misinterpreted. I meant lucky as in timing in games. Nobody is disputing that the Angels have significant power, but rather most homers I’ve witnessed have come at clutch times. If you’re counting on consistently clutch homers to constantly win games, then good luck keeping up the good luck.
I question that to, even if that were true. The Angels are playing terrible team baseball and are still on the positive side. If this is as bad as it gets, it’s looking good.
@Gwynn, Trout and Ohtani are both well established HR hitters. Renfroe has 2 30+ HR seasons and Drury just hit 28 last year. That is where the bulk of their HRs have came from. With Walsh soon coming back and whatever Urshela, Ward, and Rendon provide, they ll likely stay near similar HR pace. They will live or die with their rotation. I think Anderson has plummeted back to Earth, but Ohtani, Sandoval, Detmers, and Canning might b able to keep them at or near contention. It ll b interesting to see how it plays out.
@Gwynn, timing in games is irrelevant. A 3 run shot is e runs regardless of when it happens. Same with 2 run, GS, and solo. If a team is going to score 5 total runs timing of those 5 runs 100% irrelevant. What is relevant is outscoring other team
Everyone can see Anderson has been awful this season. I don’t think he is capable of doing what he did last year, but he will be better than he is currently. Sometimes the game comes down to match ups. He has faced Blue Jays, Red Sox at Fenway, and the Royals. If you gave a chance to name 3 teams for a guy like Anderson without dominant stuff not to face, that would be 2 of them. The Royals have only won 6 games all year, but 5 of them have been vs LHP..
Fans tend to get a bit excited one way or the other. The cries of DFA will always be around. The Angels have scored a ton of run recently, but they just played a 4 game set vs the A’s. The A’s pitching has been historically bad so far. Now they go to Milwaukee, so what the outburst just due to the fact the were playing the A’s or are the locked in right now? We will see.
I have to agree….. As poorly as the team has played, whether it be on defense, poor pitching performances or making non productive outs with runners in scoring position, they are still very much in the hunt. The mental mistakes are killing me and it is painful to watch. For all those that didn’t appreciate Scioscia’s management style I at least knew that the mental mistakes, errors and selfish at bats weren’t going to be the face of the team. They need to clean up their act and play the game right. Just my honest opinion.
I take anything from a self-proclaimed ‘insider’ with a grain of salt. If Ohtani were actually worried about the ethnic makeup of a team, I’d have to think his priorities are abjectly skewered.
I hope, as a baseball fan, that was a rumor some ‘insider’ started.
Suarez was tipping pitches this year, and too predictable last year, and has control issues. I agree with previous comments of redundant pitchers. The fact that the Angels have a low amount of pitchers with options has made it even more difficult to fix things. Anderson has had some mechanical problems, but I think he’ll get it together. Personally this is the hubris of the Angels FO in putting out a risky pitching staff and it has cost them a significant amount of games early on. They need to start making some changes sooner versus later, unlike last year, when they sat back and wasted a salvageable season.
Trout and Ohtani alerted Suarez to tipping pitches after the third inning on Monday. That’s twice in two years Trout has informed an Angels pitcher of this. Zero for our pitching coach.
We might have found the problem with both Suarez and the team. When your center fielder is the best pitching coach on the team, that’s not good.
Anderson has sucked. I though he’d be a 4 with predictable mediocrity.
Silseth walks too many guys but gets a lot of K’s and ground balls. I prefer him in a multi inning role, but then the redundancy just moves to the bullpen where Silseth, Moore, Barria, and Davidson are all multi inning guys.
I read from one of the Angels writers that wasn’t true, it was one the coaches, regardless, if he’s been tipping pitches all year and the Angels just figured that out, that doesn’t bode well for our coaches. And If he’s this bad and he hasn’t been tipping pitches, that’s also bad.
Either way, it’s lose lose.
As far as Silthseth walking too many… he didn’t in college and he didn’t in the minor leagues.
I have hopes for Silseth.
Suarez has been bad. I was at his start vs Washington and he didn’t throw with velocity after an inning or two. I thought he was hurt from my seat.
Then the velo came back but he got shelled.
Wish he’d magically strain something and get a minor league rehab start or three.
I don’t mind any combination of Suarez, Davidson and Barria. I prefer one roster spot. Two are acceptable. But three?
Davidson should have never been acquired. The Angels should have traded Iglesias for an RP with options.
It’s already cost us games.
There’s nothing wrong with Davidson. He’s done a better job of keeping inherited runners from scoring than anyone else in the bullpen.
Davidson is who he is. A long reliever spot starter with mediocre stuff. How many of those guys do you need?
Looking forward, they are all the same pitcher.
Exactly. And the usage is odd.
Replacing meh lefty Suarez in a game with meh lefty Davidson isn’t really a move. Going to bad lefty Loup after Davidson is even worse.
At least mix up the hands/pitches from one guy to the next.
iglesias trade was necessary at the time for the sale of the team but got nothing for him!
HaloJj, I think you would like pitchers List. Go to the website and pull up the Angels. You may find it interesting. If you have a lot of red on the predictive stats, you have a really good chance of being good.
Spoiler alert. Canning has really good stuff.
I really like Canning.
My point is giving hitters a different look. Suarez to Davidson isn’t really that.
I’ve been talking about this pen and Rengifo for a long time and life is easier when people see where I’m coming from.
Canning is mediocre at best. Also possibly injury prone. Why do you like him? 2 decent starts this season? What has he shown in the past? Mediocrity.
He could get hurt but you have no idea what you are talking about.
Swinging strike rate 10th in the major leagues. CSW 18th. He’s well above average in hard contact and ground ball pct. And he’s #2 on two on the Angels in pitching plus.
You are clueless.
I like Silseth. He has nasty stuff, but the command isn’t always great. He throw a couple meatballs last night. He got away with them. . His stuff is good enough at AA and AAA to get away with it, but no one always gets away with it in the show.
The other question I have with Silseth is him being a little out of shape. Some cardio would him some good. He does well early, but he sweats like crazy and seems to struggle as the game progresses. I believe his only good outing last year was his debut. which I believe he went 6 innings, and that may have been adrenaline fueled.
He dominated in AA last year and has been good in about 20 innings with the Bees this year.Most important thing is the stuff. The other things will come with time, experience and coaching. He seems like he would be a good 3 or 4 in time.
Right now all he has to be is 6th starter with good stuff.
Go to fangraphs sleeper and the bust. They talk about him a bit.
I was very high on the Angels both in the offseason and the first week or so. I can’t believe how crummy they’re playing. I thought they would build on 2022. They’ve sprinted in the opposite direction. Should have known better.
Yes, Suarez is the worst of the bunch. He’s a batting practice pitcher. Anderson is lost. Sandoval and Detmers have shown flashes of decency, then they run out of gas. The defense is poor – Drury costs them at 1B. Rengifo is being moved all over the field and exhibits the defensive IQ that should have the White Sox clambering to trade for him. And half the other guys are sleepwalking a good portion of the time. Gio is the only one professional enough to show up prepared to play every day.
The Angels entire season is about playing well enough to keep Ohtani. It should be about them winning. No way Ohtani stays in 2024. Mike Trout (it seems I’ve written this for 3-4 years here) should sit down with Arte Moreno and say the time has come and he’d like to move on. He’s been the best player in MLB for years now, and would thieve in an intense baseball atmosphere such as Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago (Cubs only), Atlanta, Houston, and one or two others.
There is something badly wrong with the baseball atmosphere in Orange county. The fans show up to enjoy the food, the scoreboard, the antics on the field….and the ushers at the park assure no fans stand up or show any emotion that might offend the other customers viewing the entertainment (the park has terrible site lines and the seats are too far from the field). It seems to spill over to the players….for decades now.
Anaheim has been where quality ballplayers sign large contracts and then take on the following philosophy: “Watch your investments and the hits and pitching will take care of themselves”. FYI – I wrote that 40 years ago and the LA Times Sports section published it.
Fan of another team in AL west. Angels should’ could’ would be good. I don’t think it’s payroll in 2 players. Rotation is legit. If they could have gotten Adel, marsh, ohoppe they’d be right there. I’m proud of this divisions depth
I like when a fan of another team comes on a thread about another team and doesn’t talk smack.
I’m amazed at how many fans come on boards about other teams with the sole intention of stirring up trouble.
Except for the bullpen, that’s been mostly horrible, and except for the back end of the rotation starters, which have been mostly horrible, the team has been pretty good.
And if a bad back end of the rotation and a bad bullpen has caught anyone off guard, they haven’t been paying attention.
“Same as it ever was”
The Angels consistently need 10+ SPs to navigate a season. With that in mind, I suspect Canning, Suarez, Silseth, Davidson and a couple of others will all get a minimum of seven starts. The difficult part will be keeping guys stretched out that aren’t currently in the rotation. Right now, that’s Silseth and Davidson.
Alternatively, if the Angels feel like they have plenty of minor league SP options, they could trade an out of options SP like Suarez, Davidson or Barria for a power armed RP with options, and realistically, some control issues.
Bachman, Joyce and other power arms are refining their repertoires in AA and AAA and could arrive before the trade deadline.
power arms with control issues are minasian’s specialties.
Chump team and Ohtani is gone from Anaheim after this season- GONE! BY the way, Brandon Marsh is one of the best players in MLB this year. So much for that hahaha.
Yeah Marsh is sooooo good they platoon him.
The Angels needed 10 pitchers when they had zero. They don’t have zero anymore. They have three. And Anderson who hasn’t been hurt and Canning who has good stuff and a back injury, not an arm injury.
This is not the same staff who went five years where they only had one starter who didn’t get hurt.
Carrying three long relievers with bad stuff who are talking the spots of better pitchers, which has already cost this teams games, was not a smart move.
lmao who didn’t expect this. I remember arguing with an idiot on here because he said they had the top rotation and good bullpen. worse of all is tyler Anderson robbing them of money. He was so lucky on the dodgers getting all run support.
He was half right. The Angels do have good starters, a very very good top of the rotation. Four good starters. It is a good rotation. Anderson is not a top of the rotation starter and I don’t know a single Angel fan who thought he was.
I wouldn’t trade the Angels top four for the Ms top four. I don’t think it’s close.
The Angels bullpen stinks.
I drafted Canning and Detmers. I was outbid for Sandoval. I didn’t touch Suarez or Anderson.
The Halos could use a guy like Aroldis Chapman to strengthen the back end of their bullpen, and KC could use a maybe one more good young arm to solidify an already decent starting core. Maybe there’s a fit there for a trade?
Moore and Estevez have done the job.
Wantz doesn’t seem to be a high leverage guy. But who knows?
Everyone else blows. Not sure what else I can say.
Agreed.
Now if only Phil agreed, too, that Moore should be the 8th inning guy, and Estevez the 9th inning guy.
If that’s the case, I have no problem with Wantz/Silseth as the 7th inning bridge.
Quijada drives me crazy, but his FIP is actually decent. I just don’t think he’s a high leverage guy with his over exuberant energy. He and Barria can share 6th inning duties and it wouldn’t be the worst.
Loup and Tepera? They can be the “behind” pitchers.
And, oh yeah, switch Suarez and Davidson.
Ok, I want to start out by telling Anthony he’s delusional about Wantz. The guy has a low ERA, but he’s allowed 6 of 9 inherited runners to score. That’s a terrible relief pitcher. period.
As for the rest of the bullpen, I did checked the numbers earlier this week, and Barria, Davidson, Estevez, Moore and Quijada were all solid bullpen guys. I might have to adjust my thought about Quijada now that he’s had two iffy outings in a row. Barria allowed two inherited runners to score, but I dont think he’s been bad, and the rest I’ve listed have allowed any IR-S or allowed many runs to score in general.
Kellin, not ripping on your assessment of Wantz, but you missed watching the games. Nevin has thrown him in a the worst possible spots a reliever could be in. Bases loaded no outs twice. I could agree with u if there were 2 outs, but it’s not the case.
He hasn’t come into the game with the bases loaded and no outs.
Are just regurgitating what google writes?
Twice he came into the game with the bases loaded and ONE out. The first time he walked Volpe, and came very very close to giving up a grand slam to Judge.
The next time he allowed an infield hit in infield ground ball that might have been a DP with Walsh at first. Why are leaning on that and not the almost grand slam? It shows you are not being objective.
He’s appeared in seven games, the Angels have lost five, and he failed in the NY situation where the Angels won.
Ironically, he has one hold, and it was the Oakland game he helped blow.
You think he’s good? Maybe he is, but he hasn’t helped the team win games.
Maybe he will in the future. I only know what has happened in the past.
Get over it halo11, I’m just rebutting your efforts and telling everyone he’s terrible. Actually he’s been pretty solid. Most don’t put much weight in inherited runners stats. There’s a bunch of stats better than that. You need to start holding the starting pitcher, or whom ever it is before him accountable. I know who and what does thou,the stats and which pitcher gets the runs. The stats don’t lie, End of story
“The Angels could flip the out-of-options Tucker Davidson, who’s been working in long relief, into Suarez’s rotation role while kicking the latter into mop-up duty.“
Bingo.
This Orange, one of the few rational thoughts on here. You can’t give Silseth, Suarez’s starting spot, then you’ll have way to many lefty’s in the pen. Suarez is on a the hot seat, he better figure it out, or it Will Be Davidson taking his spot.
That said, Silseth’s roll this year should be long relief man. He seams to run out of gas after a few innings anyways. It’s a perfect spot for him. They’ll work this out real fast. 😉
You’re rational?
As I’ve been talking about your years, these rosters spots have value. Basically the Angles traded Iglesias, and a very valuable roster spot for Davidson.
It was a bad trade. Why people don’t understand locking a roster spot for a pitcher with mediocre stuff is beyond me. Because there are very few players with options, locking that roster spot was not smart.
We’ll it appears Davidson is pitching pretty solidly, so I sure hope he has a roster spor all year.. hhaahhahaa
As usual, you missed the point.
I’m glad Google won the argument. It doesn’t matter neither one of you know what you are talking about. It’s important that you think he won the argument.
I’m tired about being right….when are you going to be tired about being wrong?
Anderson was a bad signing from the beginning. Sandoval has had 1 bad start. One where the infield defense let him down. The Bullpen has been a match in a haystack factory. The infield defense, other than Neto has been atrocious
Fan for life, I agree with you on almost everything. As far as Anderson goes, there is nothing wrong with an innings eater if three of your starters are young.
If people accept he’s a back end of rotation starter, he’s fine. I think that’s all most Angel fans expected.
Neto can sure catch the ball. Angels Outs above average this year. Much to my surprise, Neto is number one. And to no surprise, Rengifo is last.
Hallo 11, my issue with Anderson was it didn’t make any sense. The Angels are sending out four consecutive lefties, that all have the same stuff. Which is basically the opposing batters are facing the same pitcher 4 straight games. Sandoval I worry the least amount. He has the ability to adjust better than the other 3.
Angelsfan4life, I disagree there. Throw Suarez out, and all the other 3 lefty’s are different. The 3 do it different ways.
Plugnplay, all 4 feature a FB between 90-03. All 4 feature a slider is between 85-88. A change up that sits around 86. Now granted the 4th pitch is different for each one. But for all 4, those three are their main 3 pitches. Sandoval is the only one, which consistently gets ground balls vs fly balls. Btw all 4 rely heavily on getting borderline strikes called on their off speed pitches. Sandoval to this point is the only one, who can make in game adjustments, if he doesn’t have a feel for one of his pitches. Or isn’t getting those borderline pitches called strikes.
AF4L, I feel like I know what your saying in Sandoval. I just think u trust him most. Which is fine. But My opinion is Sandoval is in between the other 2 in Detmers and Anderson. Detmers more power sinker, Slurze, fastball guy, and Anderson, the crafty softer change up guy.
End of day, I like Sandy and Detmers a ton. That said, Anderson will figure it out and be a solid backend guy.
Mike Trout must love having October off. Only reason to have resigned with this team.
Oh, a troll rears his ugly head.
I must have missed all those deep Angels playoff runs. Apologies.
The troll crawls out of his hole once again.
I’ve been waiting for the “elite pitching staff” comment to pop up. That seems to be the common consensus among Halo fans even when it’s obvious they’re not.
Once Ohtani is gone, and he will be, what’s left? Not much!
Moreno is at fault, an oblivious front office, GM poor decisions, etc…
Prior to this decade or so, the Halo’s have a history of solid pitching going back to the 70’s I believe. But now it’s all an illusion of what once was in the minds of Halo fans.
Another troll rears his ugly head.
I’m not sure it makes a difference who starts or who relieves. Like the offense, it’s a depth of mediocrity. The starters as a whole are 25th in BB given up. Only 2 less than Oak. Mediocre in Ks. The relievers are mediocre in BB/9 and 24th in K/9. So however you reshuffle the pitchers there’s not enough K’s outside Ohtani. This defense needs many more K’s to keep the pressure of the mediocre defense. And less walks too obviously.b
Suarez and Anderson have been terrible. Wow, great analysis.
Hey clowns, Just listen to On The Corner, Pitcher List or Rates and Barrels, because it’s obvious you are clueless trolls.
Fire Nevin. Does not know how to handle the pitching staff.
I have not been happy with the way he’s handled anything.
Totally agree Nuts, I like the Angels 14-12 record considering we have Nevin trying to butcher everything. Jeez, just put our best relievers in, and the spots they should be in, and oh boy! Half the pens blown saves go away.
All can be fixed if he can live and learn, we’ll see. Estevez has already called him out.
The pen will blow saves at times , but when you use it poorly as often as he has the numbers increase. They should have at least 3 more wins and fewer defeats. 17-9 with most other managers at the helm. I blame Artie on this as Nevin’s 1 year deal was in place in case new ownership wanted to hire their own manager and finically fits. Once he changed his mind a long term manager should have been hired.
Bottom line for Mr. Nevin, stop babying the pen. They’ll be plenty of time to rest the pen through out the year, thru blowouts and the starting pitching getting on a roll. The April games count just as much as any time in the year. Jeez!
The pitch clock seems to be affecting Suarez big time.
The pitch clock effects me too…I hate it.
Why did Arte resign Nevin, a rookie manager, to a one year contract for Ohtani’s walk year? They didn’t even really look for a good manager during the offseason and we are reaping the results. All those bad losses, like those pathetic losses in Boston I initially thought were because it is early in the season and the Angels will hit their stride and things will be fine. Or when he brought back Wantz for the 9th and Barria to try to close out the 9th in that first game against the A’s. Really? A long reliever as closer in a 1 run game? We didn’t have anybody else at all?! But now I’m thinking that Nevin is just a bad/inexperienced manager.
The Suarez situation is another data point for this. Suarez is obviously ineffective and getting shelled and may be tipping his pitches and what’s Nevin’s comment? Suarez has worked hard and deserves this chance. No. Suarez needs to go to the bullpen and work on things and be replaced in the rotation by either Davidson, Silseth or Barria (Barria was a starter, idk why he isn’t really in the replace Suarez conversation). Replace Suarez with someone who isn’t going to get absolutely shelled.
I’m still hopeful we make the playoffs and therefore have a chance to keep Ohtani but if we do, we will have to do it on pure talent because Arte chose to sign a rookie manager for Ohtani’s walk year. I guess my greatest wish other than making the playoffs is that Arte sells the team.
Angel fan. A friend of mine had lunch with a very well-known baseball writer. This writer believes Moreno didn’t get the kind of offer he was looking for.
He was going to sell the team, Nevin was going to be replaced, but by the time the dust settled, it was too late.
The Oakland series at the end of last year should have removed all doubt that Nevin is clueless about bullpen management.
Perry needed to build him a dummy proof pen… he didn’t. The bullpen has blown at least 7 games. Not games they could have won… Not coin flip games… but games they should have won.
And why Rengifo is playing is beyond me. Unless he’s hitting, he’s virtually unplayable.
Yea. What you say makes sense, but it’s still a bad situation regarding Nevin.
Once Walsh gets back the Rengifo situation will go away and our lineup go from deep to super deep. Hope to have Stassi back at some point too thinking he’ll revert to the mean after a horrible last season. I wonder why we haven’t heard any updates about those two recently.
But regarding the bullpen idk. In that first game against the A’s to even start Suarez when he was pitching so badly and then to stay with him so long when he was getting shelled. And then to bring back Wantz for a second inning in the 9th who was just called up from AAA and has no career saves with a one run lead, and then relieve him with Barria who is a long reliever/starter with no career saves. I mean, we had to have at least one real reliever who could have pitched the 9th. We just had to.
So it seems to me that Nevin is just too inexperienced to manage pitchers effectively. He is terrible at it. And like you say, it’s not just this one time. We have already lost so many games because of him. He puts a reliever in and doesn’t have anyone else up in the bullpen to show that he trusts that guy but if he stumbles, we lose. Who does that all the time? Every win is important.
Even if Perry went out and got 2 more really good relievers, Nevin would probably still blow it periodically. It’s pretty depressing, especially since it’s Ohtani’s walk year and we really need to make the playoffs.
When Scioscia had a great bullpen the first part of first part of this century, he was a good manager. When he had a poor bullpen, he was a terrible manager.
My point, it’s hard to be a good manager with a bad bullpen. Perry has had three years, and we still don’t have one BP guy with all around talent. They all have warts.
There is no perfect player. Moore seems like a good pickup so far, and so does Estevez. I was hoping Tepera would have another good season and but he got off to a slow start and now he’s injured so we’ll see.
If a bullpen guy gets called strikes, gets swinging strikes, avoids hard contact, has command and keeps the ball on the ground, that’s a no warts BP guy and there are many RPs that do all five. Virtually every pen has several guys who can do three.
I’m not sure we have a BP guy who does three of those things well. We have starters that do four of those things well, but no RPs. That’s just inexcusable.
It’s a massive failure on the part of Minasian.
Maybe. Perry picked up Estevez and Moore in the offseason and they are performing well so it’s not like he ignored the bullpen. Also right now we are without Warren, Tepera, Herget and now Quijada all of which are pretty darn good when they are on. Chris Rodriguez could probably really help too but he is down also. So we are currently missing 5 frontline relievers who are good when they are on. We should be getting Warren and Tepera back soon which should really help. We seem to have the pieces but have been hit by injuries and again, horrible management of the pieces that we do have active.