The sticky stuff crackdown returned to the forefront of MLB attention this afternoon. Mets ace Max Scherzer was ejected after three innings in today’s contest against the Dodgers. An agitated Scherzer was thrown out by crew chief Phil Cuzzi after an extended conversation and inspection of his hands (video provided by Fox Sports MLB).
Failed foreign substance checks come with an automatic 10-game suspension. MLB hasn’t officially levied any discipline to this point, though it’s widely expected the eight-time All-Star will be hit with a suspension. Scherzer told reporters after the game he planned to appeal if suspended (via Bob Nightengale of USA Today).
Scherzer proclaimed his innocence, saying umpires had only detected a combination of sweat and permissible rosin (relayed by Steve Gelbs of SNY). “I said I swear on my kids’ life I’m not using anything else. This is sweat and rosin, sweat and rosin. I keep saying it over and over.” Scherzer added that he anticipated a substance check before the fourth inning, saying he’d “have to be an absolute idiot” to apply anything else.
The three-time Cy Young winner said his hand had gotten “clumpy” with rosin during the second inning. That’s apparently not atypical, as Cuzzi told the pitcher to wash his hand. Scherzer was adamant he washed it with alcohol and changed his glove before reapplying rosin headed into the fourth.
Scherzer’s agent Scott Boras predictably came to his defense. In a statement to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter), Boras attacked what he perceived as umpire subjectivity. “MLB standards and rules enforcement should mandate and require an objective verifiable standard,” Boras said. “If you want to attack the integrity of the competition, you need clear precise standards (or) else you damage the game and its players. The Cuzzi on field spectrometer is not the answer. MLB needs to employ available scientific methods (not subjective) to create verifiable certainly of its rules.”
Cuzzi and home plate umpire Dan Bellino defended their actions after the game. “This was the stickiest [a hand] has been since I’ve been inspecting hands, which goes back three seasons,” Bellino said (via Mike DiGiovanna of the Los Angeles Times). “It was so sticky that when we touched his hand, our fingers were sticking to his hand.” He went on to call it “far more than we have ever seen before on a pitcher in live action” and noted that umpires are aware of the consequences for pitchers ejected for foreign substances, implying they don’t take lightly the expected suspension in making that decision (transcribed by Mike Puma of the New York Post).
Cuzzi made a similar argument, saying Scherzer’s hand was “far stickier than anything that we felt certainly today and anything this year. And so in that case, we felt as though he had two chances to clean it up and he didn’t” (relayed by Tim Healey of Newsday). Bellino called it “something likely more than rosin” in his judgment (thread via Jesse Rogers of ESPN). “We know what the rosin typically feels like on a pitcher’s hand because everyone is using the same rosin bag,” he added. Rogers notes that while rosin itself is not a banned substance, it can be impermissible if used excessively or misapplied.
Drawing that line presents a judgment call for an umpiring crew. Scherzer’s ejection was the first for a failed substance check since the end of the 2021 campaign. Yankees righty Domingo Germán had a close call during a start against the Twins last week, when umpires twice warned him for using too much rosin (link via Dan Hayes of the Athletic). Germán was allowed to stay in the game after washing the rosin to the umpiring crew’s satisfaction. That displeased Twins manager Rocco Baldelli, who was ejected for arguing against Germán being allowed to continue. Dodgers skipper Dave Roberts said that Los Angeles did not request any of the glove inspections in Scherzer’s case (via Rowan Kavner of Fox Sports).
It’s only the beginning of what figures to be a notable saga if/when MLB levies a suspension. In suspensions for violations of on-field rules, clubs are required to play a man short while the ban is being served. The Mets already have three starters — Justin Verlander, José Quintana and Carlos Carrasco — on the injured list.
Very unfair ejection. We all know Scherzer needs to constantly reapply the Rogaine in between innings to deal with that atrocity going on. Must have left some on his fingers. Big misunderstanding
Scherzer’s explanation:
twitter.com/SteveGelbs/status/1648817672526897152?…
I think the umps got it wrong.
I didn’t open the tweet, but if he’s just saying it sweat and rosin and the umps are saying it’s too sticky after they asked him to wash it off, are they not supposed to eject him? Even if it is just sweat and rosin
They never asked him to wash it off
He followed the protocols of washing it off in front of the mlb official under the stadium. Interesting.
I just don’t understand how rosin is legal, but only if you don’t use too much of it. When rosin gets wet, it gets clumpy like plumbers putty. What is a pitcher supposed to do? Call time out to wash his hands off? This may be a case where the player wins his appeal because the rule is dumb for a legal substance. Way too subjective to determine how much is too much. They need to test his glove and see if anything else but Rosin is on there. If it’s just rosin, they can’t suspend him for 10 games. That would be ridiculous!
No. Excessive rosin use is also illegal. And the umps said it was far stickier than any rosin clumping they had ever felt
Where does it say excessive rosin is illegal? Is it an unwritten rule because i was looking through the rule book and they dont talk to the amount only the where.
Idk. I’m not looking in the rule book, but I had heard it before this incident, but the link to a tweet above states :
“As a reminder, rosin can be a ‘prohibited substance’ if used ‘excessively’ or ‘misapplied.’ And its not allowed to be combined with other substances like sunscreen or rubbing alcohol”.
Cuzzi says they they did ask him to wash his hands.
Scherzer said he washed his hands with alcohol in front of the MLB official.
And still didn’t or couldn’t get the illegal substance/excessive rosin off (or immediately put it back on when the umpires walked away).
@2012oriolesthat
that is a sports reporter saying it … even in the quotes everywhere from the umpires they didnt / couldnt say it was excessive rosin but that it was so sticky it had to be mixed with a foreign substance. There is no physical proof it was mixed with something which is illegal or that the umps didnt just “subjectively” kick him out..
I quoted the rule below but ill copy it here
Rule 6.02(d) Comment: …. A pitcher may use the rosin bag for the purpose of applying rosin to his bare hand or hands. Neither the pitcher nor any other player shall dust the ball with the rosin bag; neither shall the pitcher nor any other player be permitted to apply rosin from the bag to his glove or dust any part of his uniform with the rosin bag.
nothing about amount only the where and whom
Even Scherzer said they did ask him and said he used alcohol to remove it.
Here is a pdf of the MLB Official Rules for last season. Those concerning foreign substances have not changed.
img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/hhvr…
Here is 2023
img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/wqn5…
The pitcher can use the rosin bag to apply rosin to his hands. He cannot dust the ball, his clothing, or his glove with it on the mound. He cannot apply rosin to his hands or glove while in the dugout.
Scherzer was checked coming out of the dugout after being asked to wash his hands, with his hands so sticky with rosin that the umpires are being quoted as saying it was the stickiest they had felt.
@BrewCrewFan
Are you sure you read the article?
The three-time Cy Young winner said his hand had gotten “clumpy” with rosin during the second inning. That’s apparently not atypical, as Cuzzi told the pitcher to wash his hand. Scherzer was adamant he washed it with alcohol and changed his glove before reapplying rosin headed into the fourth.
Do you think you get clumps of rosin off of a rosin bag?
I’m sure Scherzer just accidentally put too much Rodin and mixed it with sweat. Really? He knows that is a grey area and tried to exploit. This time he lost.
you are not allowed to apply rosin before an inning in the dugout, which Scherzer admitted to.
If he reapplied rosin in the dugout or anywhere else than on the mound, he broke the rules. He didn’t even have a chance to get to the mound before being inspected so he could not have applied rosin from the rosin bag and his hands had rosin on them again.
If he said he reapplied rosin, he was admitting to breaking the rules.
Of course he is adamant that he didn’t do anything wrong. The suspension will cost him $2.65 million.
As the article said you can use rosin, but can still be suspended for using too much. Pitchers are not allowed to apply it on their hands before an inning nor put it on their glove. There is a rosin bag on the mound. That is the only legal source of rosin.
Scherzer was given 2 chances to get it off his hands. 3 strikes and you are out.
The players union should strike immediately.
Lolmets
They are 12-7. What are you laughing at?
Even the Orioles are 11–7. So he’s laughing at your $346mm payroll being half a game better than the Orioles $64mm payroll.
Imagine if your owners weren’t cheap and spent just a little money. The Orioles would have a real shot.
All that losing and constant top picks over the years will lead to eventual success. We are also only 18 games into the season…everyone expects the Mets to keep it up, as they did last year.
He’s the one who brought up the record of the team as if it means something. Y’all Mets fans are bipolar. Bring up how your team is 12-7, but when I point out the O’s are 11-7, now you say it’s only 18 games into the season. Lol. Make up you minds already.
You are indeed little.
Tiny. Insignificant. Pitiful little. You contribute jackshit to any meaningful conversation. Baseball or otherwise.
Lol.
Wow. A message board comment ruined your week? My goodness.
It is kind of funny when someone goes on a rant and then follows it with a LOL.
Funny how?
Lol.
Lolmets
Whoa-whoa-whoa. He’s a big boy. He knows what he said.
@MadHatter
Funny how?
Like a clown.
Like I’m here to amuse you?
Third best record in the NL and just took two of three from the Dodgers in LA, and that’s with no Verlander. Lol? I mean, yeah, as a Mets fan I’m pretty happy so far.
Probably about to get a 4 game sweep of the Giants as well.
Giants will probably win at least one.
I hope the magic is sustainable. The starters are old and health is going to be an ongoing concern. It’s good, but hope it’s enough.
How little of you.
Defend cheating or defend The Ump Show. This is a nearly impossible decision.
The memo sent to clubs simply states “Should an inspection reveal that the pitcher’s hand is, in the words of the memo, “unquestionably sticky,” the umpire will conclude that a foreign substance had been used in order to gain a competitive advantage, resulting in penalties”.
Whether it was to gain an advantage or a misunderstanding, its still a violation if he was coming to the mound repeatedly with sticky hands
Apparently rosin and sweat can become sticky. So, just determining the hand or glove is sticky is not enough. They need to also determine if the legal substance rosin is causing the stickiness. That’s my opinion.
Rosin & water doesn’t magically become sticky at a certain point, the combo is sticky. thats the entire point for it being allowed
However, umpires do what, 10 or more total checks per game? If its every half inning, then it is 18.
Believe it or not, MLB umpires are professionals too. If they claim this was the stickiest any hand had been in three years of doing 18 checks x 162 games… Scherzer needs to learn how to wash his hands
They even gave him a chance to fix it, and he still failed the check a second time. Scherzer should know the rules. It is fully on him
Even if it is sweat and rosin, if it’s too sticky they will have you wash your hands. He got 2 chances. The ump did his job
It makes sense that he failed to wash his hands. An MLB official watched him wash his hands. I wonder what his role was there – to just watch or make sure the player thoroughly washes his hands.
I thought you were allowed to have it on your glove
He would have hated Jorge Posada
Or Tek
I think umps look like clowns when one guy is given a pass and another hammered with a suspension. It can’t be a judgement call either or one ump could toss you for hardly any while another let’s a lot slide.
Gives new meaning to being “filthy”
So we need a CSI substance testing booth at the game while we are also supposed to let them play and shorten the games. If you actually tested substances from a players hand accurately these games would be 8 hr and 12 minutes long minimum. That’s an accurate estimation with a lot of sarcasm towards original post guy.
“Follow the evidence. ”
– G. Grissom
Applying it to the glove is specifically prohibited.
Where did you read that a MLB official watched him wash his hands?
Websoulsurfer: Scherzer said he washed his hands in front of an MLB official in the above twitter link and you can read it here:
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/36237299/mets-max-scherzer…
Cut and dry. So even if Scherzer is telling the truth, it’s disappointing he didn’t take the time to understand the rules as they are.
That said, I hate the subjective nature of this type of assessment. This won’t be the last time a player takes issue with one.
I would definitely think Mad Max will appeal this decision. And he very well should.
I definitely think he will lose. Everyone that has appealed a suspension for sticky stuff has had the suspension upheld on appeal.
…except, has anyone ever been suspended for using rosin, a legal substance?
They always claim it was rosin,and that they did nothing wrong… And then they lose the appeal.
Yes. They talked about that in the Athletic article yesterday. Rosin if applied in any other manner than the rosin bag on the mound is considered a foreign substance under Rule 6.02. Scherzer was checked after leaving the dugout and he had rosin or some other sticky substance on his hands, which means it was not applied on the mound. He also had it on the glove they asked him to change out. The rules specifically state that pitchers cannot apply rosin to gloves or clothing.
After watching the game, I did not see Scherzer go to the rosin bag on the mound even once. Obviously, we don’t get to see every moment a pitcher is on the field, but we see enough to get a sense if he is loading up on rosin from the bag on the mound. With the pitch clock, it’s not like the pitcher is off camera for long between pitches or batters.
Yes. What I’m wondering is, most suspensions are appealed & the number of days are reduced. But this is mandatory 10 days. Does that mean all or nothing? Can it be reduced to 5 days, which is 1 start? My guess is that he’s gone for 2 starts.
In my opinion, it shouldn’t be reduced. The appeal should deal with whether the penalty was correctly or wrongly applied.
Of course, that’s only my opinion.
I actually agree with this. It’s an all or nothing proposition. They either levied it, undeserving, and there’s no suspension, or it’s valid and he remains suspended for sticky stuff.
Personally, I think if he’s suspended it should be vacated. Sweat and rosin is sticky. He washed his hands with an MLB official. “Sticky” is arbitrary and subjective. If he followed protocol, both from the umps and from MLB, this is a bogus ejection.
Its mandatory. Either he gets off completely or he is suspended 10 games. The ball is in his court to prove that he only applied rosin to his hands and only did so while on the field, not in the dugout or clubhouse. He doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on. None of the other suspensions have been overturned by appeal.
I believe you’re correct. The umps were tasked with a thankless job here. Players have pushed the envelope. The league has pushed back. The umps are in the middle.
Scherzer was using some of that real sticky-icky-icky just in time for 4/20.
You are allowed to use the rosin bag. You are not allowed to load your glove up with rosin.
Cuzzi has ejected 3 players for foreign substances on their gloves. All 3 were suspended 10 games. All 3 suspensions were upheld on appeal.
Scherzer’s next start will likely be the 30th vs the Braves.
It’s suspicious that he’s the only ump to eject anyone for it. Seems like attention seeking behavior.
or… he actually does his job as a professional and isn’t afraid of media outcry for him… doing his job
or a little home town umping…
unless all of the ejections benefitted a single team, that’s not the case vj
Idk about you, but I don’t have three different home towns
Or he’s taking his job seriously.
Or he hates the metropolitans
Who doesn’t? Even their fans do.
Perhaps the new Joe West?
It doesn’t make sense for Scherzer to risk this. Potential first ballot Hall of Famer. Why take that chance?
Because he has been struggling
His spin rate has been consistent in all of his starts this year.
Scherzer’s spin rate is down substantially from last season. baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/active-spin
Not sure where you are getting game to game spin rate information. Love to see that.info.
I’m going on this season. A reporter mentioned it to him during an interview after the game.
No he hasn’t
Nobody will remember this even happened, he will be voted in first time. Braves fan here.
Have you not seen how fans/media treat Altuve (who didn’t even take part) or the countless PED abusers? This will absolutely be remembered.
@jjd002 Of course I have. People, especially baseball fans, have a keen sense of fairness. I don’t believe anyone (except you maybe) puts what Scherzer did anywhere near the level of the Astros players. A year from now 98% of fans will have forgotten this happened. 20 years from now 98% of fans will remember what the Astros players did. Altuve & other plays went along with the most egregious, coordinated cheating effort in recent MLB history. If you go along with that you deserve blame.
Lol. You realize your Braves did it too, right? It wasn’t the most egregious cheating scandal when it was league wide. They were just the fall team. It’s very unfair how they are treated. I don’t fault the fans, I fault MLB for letting them become the fall team.
Braves were doing it bc you say they were? And it was league wide bc you say it was? Interesting.
What didn’t Altuve take part in?
Altuve literally said “I have a piece” and begged his team to not rip his Jersey off. That’s unfair. Did Scherzer use sticky stuff cause no 40 year old is dominant yes. Will he get suspended for 10 games yes. Will he get 1st ballot, yes. Will he come back and use that against the Braves in 10 days? He better or there will be 6hrs and the chop hurting everyone’s feelings 🙂
Stop with your lies!
My comment about it being league wide is backed by players and baseball insider comments. It’s all very easily googled. Perhaps try it? Whether you guys want to believe it or not it was a league wide issue. Not every player did it, but every team was stealing signs electronically. It’s no different than any other fad or controversy baseball has had. It is a copy-cat league with billions at stake. Players change teams and take what they learned to their new team (Beltran taking the sign stealing from New York to Houston).
While other teams may have been doing something along the same lines as Houston, no one was doing anything as in depth and as large in scheme. That has been backed up by dozens of players and insiders.
I don’t remember which player it was, but in one of the recent player chats it was even mentioned that guys around the league had heard rumblings that Houston and Toronto were really advanced past what everyone else was doing.
Well, it’s probably going to happen a lot more to a lot other guys. So yeah, this will be a footnote.
Same reason Raffy Palmeiro did. Pure ego.
Embarrassing. Can’t see Scherzer ‘cheating’. Can’t see umps lying. Please never be said again, but I agree w/Boras. There has to be something more than subjectivity to throwing a hall of famer out of a game because he didn’t wash it off sufficiently enough.
Gimme a break. You want slick baseballs to make them fly, pitchers to feel them, but not cheating.
Figure it out or eliminate 1 of 3. Seems fairly simple!?
Full on chemistry kit in every dugout so the umpires can slow the games down doing tests on the foreign substances on pitcher’s hands multiple times per game Maybe mass spectrometry analysis in every stadium. Can you see the headlines if some pitcher gets injured while a trainer or MLB medical staff takes a sticky stuff sample from a player’s hand?
SO NOW THE TRUTH IS OUT.
Interesting reading people’s opinions on cheating when it isn’t an Astro or a PED abuser being accused/caught. Seems a lot of people are willing look the other way when it is their team or favorite player.
If you watched this entire sequence you might feel differently about it. They checked him in the 3rd and made him wash his hands and change his glove. He changed his glove and washed his hands with alcohol under the supervision of an MLB official. When he went back out for the 4th he was checked again, and they were complaining about his hands again. He literally never left the sight of the MLB official since he washed his hands and he had a brand new glove. He also would obviously know he’s about to get checked again and be under scrutiny so why would he even risk anything? They also didn’t throw him out the 2nd time until they were in a heated argument and it really appeared like he got ejected for arguing. If you watched his reaction he didn’t look like somebody guilty of anything, but rather like somebody extremely pissed off at the ridiculousness of the situation. Also, if it was an illegal substance, you wouldn’t be allowed to wash your hands, you would be ejected on the spot. The idea of washing them is clearly because they believed it was rosin but they were unhappy with the extent of it. Cuzzi pulled the same stunt with German last week but he was allowed to stay in the game after washing them. And that’s not the first time he’s done it.
The fact that Cuzzi seems to have a hard-on for these situations, plus Max being a union rep and you have a lot of different variables. Max also barks at the umps a lot, he got tossed from 3 games last year, 2 of them he wasn’t even playing in and got tossed from the dugout. Plus the way he swore on his kids lives would be a little extreme if he was guilty of anything.
It’s clearly different from the Astros situation.
Pretty simple to fix. Have Scherzer/a pitcher slip on a food-preparer’s glove. Give it a good rub, bag it, and send it to a lab (no pun intended).
This is a great idea.
When Hector Santiago got ejected and suspended for a foreign substance, they bagged his glove and sent it to MLB for testing…. which they never performed and denied his suspension appeal. Here’s the story:
cbssports.com/mlb/news/mariners-hector-santiago-to…
Yes, I remember that. He got eject from the game for a possible foreign substance. The glove was never tested and the suspension us basically upheld based on a umpires opinion. From what I understand, with the foreign substances suspensions, no testing was ever done.
Is MLB going to now use this logic for PEDs?
The first player that is allergic to that kind of glove and that would be all over. Plus that method has to be negotiated with the MLBPA.
Add to that the fact that the pitcher is still in the game for the multiple days it takes to send it to a lab and be tested.
Here is a simple test. If you leave the dugout with a sticky hand after washing your hands, you are breaking the rules. You can only apply rosin from the bag on the mound. You can’t have it on your glove. Scherzer SAID that he reapplied rosin before the 4th inning. Since he never got to the mound to start the 4th it had to be in the dugout. That means he broke the rules.
You’re splitting hairs here. They’re polyethylene gloves and I haven’t found a single person allergic to plastic.
I usually side with rules but I’d have to question the scherzer claim that he washed his hands with alcohol with an MLB rep watching. If he knew he was going to be checked then he’s either extremely arrogant or just dumb. Did he go back to the same glove they told him to change and he ignored it?
Also it appeared to me that the substance was in the glove and transferred to the hand. Need to watch to see how much time max spends taking his hand out of the glove to rub down the ball if this was an issue.
But hard for me to believe after all these years this is the first time their has been a question…
Agree, & on top of all of that, it just sounds impractical to wash one’s pitching hand with alcohol at any time before or during a start. His hand would be so dry, even if you applied more rosin on top of it your skin would feel awful.
LAVA soap! With pumice!
I mean Barry Bonds wasn’t juicing when he was 20….
It was the opposite the rosin on the hand was being transferred to the glove every time he reached in there to use his pitchcom.
Tough situation. Likely has to serve the suspension regardless. They have to have rules, and apply the rules even if the ump in question has a reputation
People should NEVER swear on the life of their child. I don’t believe in fate or karma or whatever, but I am not an idiot either. Just on the microscopic chance that it could work, I wouldn’t wager my child’s life no matter what. Especially over something relatively insignificant as that.
It’s an expression. Magic is not real.
I see you failed reading comprehension and have a massive ego. Nice combo. Hope it works out well for you.
If you think that him saying what he did could actually jeopardize his kids life, then I disagree with you saying you are not an idiot.
No, he’s right. There’s not even a microscopic chance that swearing on your kid’s life will magically hurt them.
What if he wants his kid dead though…?
You wrote:
“Just on the microscopic chance that it could work,”
Therefore, you *do* believe it can work. There’s nothing wrong with his reading comprehension. You apparently don’t even understand what you believe in.
I’m not saying some supreme being is going to off his kid or something. But why say that at all? Wagering on your child’s life is not something that should ever come out of the mouth of a father. It is much worse than cheating at a game.
But you all don’t care, so why do I bother? Have a good night.
I swear on my son’s life (he’s sitting right next to me) that saying “I swear on my son’s life” means absolutely nothing.
you people are weird
I swear.
Well played
So placebos and prayer don’t work?
Placebos trick the brain so, yes. Prayer makes you feel good inside so, kinda. Weird when two fans are both praying for their team to win though, what’s a God to do?
It’s not tricking the brain that’s difficult, it’s tricking the universe/reality that’s impossible.
Jinxes are as real as Santa Claus, and most grownups have learned that by now.
Medicine doesn’t heal the body, the body heals the body. The brain is part of the body. The best medicines just prompt the bodies systems to get to work and heal the illness.
Placebos don’t trick anything. Placebos are just not the scientific method for treating an illness. But often they work as well as the drug created with science works. Sometimes better. That shows that the body is healing the body.
We don’t understand everything, and one simple fact remains, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so in essence magic does exist.
Imagine your great, great grandfather watching you with your smartphone in your hand. Magic. It has to be. No other explanation existed in the 1800s.
People.have.lied about.me.my ENTIRE LIFE, it doesn’t matter that I am the one telling the truth. It doesn’t matter whether I am right or wrong. It doesn’t matter if I believe in Jesus, count on God or count on Jesus. What matters is the ability to enforce one’s will. There are people out there that are just that selfish, they were raised by people.just that selfish and they raised their kids and grandkids to be just that selfish. Neve swear on anything because it is useless. Those very same people are organized with other people, like minded and they are successful, other join in because.they see how successful they are and how helpless and how hopeless the lives of people like me are. My life was ruined by this type of people and I can.never get those years back.
NEVER SWEAR ON ANYTHING, ITS JUST ANOTHER EXCUSE FOR THESE TYPES.l OF PEOPLE.
Scherzer may have broken other rules, but assuming he was telling the truth about using rosin, there is a literal 0% chance he would be wrong about that. So, as it applies to this specific case, I don’t see a problem with him using those words.
That said, I wouldn’t swear on the life of my child because I find such swearing to be silly and meaningless.
People shouldn’t swear, period.
Except in court, where swearing or affirming is mandatory.
So, the Yankees get away with it but the Mets don’t. Typical.
Mighty childish for your age…
Not really, just simple fact.
I liked the ejection.
Scherzer’s explanations are just desperate blather out of his lower brown eye
MLB needs a better standard than his hands were “sticky” if rosin is permitted. Rosin and sweat mix and it is sticky. Anyone who ever touched the stuff knows it.
So how the hell is the Umpire arriving at this subjective call. The league is putting them in a bad position.
The umpires are the ones trained to make those decisions and the ones who have the duty to uphold the rules.
To all who say “but rosin is legal”. Think of rosin like the shift. You can shift so far. If you go further you’ve broken the rules. Or like the pitch clock you can flirt with zero but sometimes flirting goes wrong and then you’ve broken the rules.
The issue is where exactly is the rosin line. Nobody wants the umps out there with little test strips for sunscreen or whatever after every inning on a pitchers glove, hand, belt, hat, arms, crotch, arse. The line seems to be, hey we said wash your hands twice and they’re still sticky as ever, get outta here
Ten games is a lot of money for Scherzer
Bad analysis. There are defined, measurable ways to enforce the shift rule. The third infielder can’t be on the other side of 2nd base; very easy and measurable to enforce. There is no way to define how much rosin is too much rosin. It’s purely subjective by the umpires and no rule that results in a 10 game suspension to a pitcher and the team having to play a man down for those 10 games should be subjective.
They need to test the substance on his glove in a lab. If it shows more than rosin (and glove oil) then he should be suspended. If it is just rosin then he should not be suspended. Seems pretty simple to me.
Also a bad analysis. Just rosin can rise to the level of illegal if use excessively. One can make a good argument that the rule is vaguely constructed, but that is ultimately irrelevant for this situation because the rule is what it is..
Also a bad analysis. Just rosin can rise to the level of illegal if use excessively. One can make a good argument that the rule is vaguely constructed, but that is ultimately irrelevant for this situation because the rule is what it is.
Max was cooking against the Dodgers, so a bit of “Home Town Umping”
And yes Umpires are not above lying…
He was actually struggling quite a bit early on.
Dude put it on his kids’ lives, so he’s definitely telling the truth.
Unless he’s a complete psychopath…
Or he understands that swearing on his kids’ lives doesn’t actually mean anything. Lying won’t cause the kid to drop dead.
Who are these dudes that ACTUALLY think it means anything?
Tell Boras to zip it.
August 4, 2022 – Umpire Phil Cuzzi ejected Giants pitcher Jarlin Garcia and manager Gabe Kapler (Unsportsmanlike-NEC) after the top of the 6th inning of the #Dodgers-#Giants game. With two out and none on, Dodgers batter James Outman took a 1-2 fastball from Giants pitcher Garcia for a called third strike by HP Umpire Dan Bellino. Replays indicate that following the strikeout, Garcia made a gesture directed at the Dodgers; Cuzzi ejected Kapler for arguing Garcia’s ejection, the call was irrecusable.
Would say he’s a bit of a Dodger Homey…
Someone is a sensitive sally
If anything, this supports that Cuzzi believes in policing how players act on the field irregardless of what teams are on the field. You know, a really basic aspect of an umpires job..
Stop making excuses. Take your 10-game suspension and learn your lesson.
Scherzer was a union player rep and was instrumental in the CBA talks. He has a moral obligation in solidarity with his union and representation to push this as far as he can on appeal and force the league to clarify this vague ass rule. Not to mention a 10 game suspension costs him like 2.5 million dollars. There is no way he, or the players union as a whole, takes this lying down.
They won’t. Be lying down. It will be taken from a recliner in his house for 10 games
He’ll fight the suspension and he’ll lose.
Its not a vague rule. If he applied rosin to his hand in any manner other than the rosin bag on the mound, then he broke the rules. If he applied rosin to his glove, then he broke the rules.
He entered the game in the 4th inning after being asked to wash his hands and was checked before taking the mound and had rosin on his hands. Scherzer himself said that he reapplied rosin to his hands before the 4th inning and after washing his hands. Since he never got to the mound to apply it, that means he broke the rules.
This is really cut and dried.
His excuse was lame
The problem is that the entire process is subjective and not based on scientific fact.
Umpires are set up by MLB with this flawed system of checking, and a players reputation is held accountable for it.
This falls directly on Commissioner Manfraud and his mishandling of the entire scenario and lack of scientific knowledge and evidence to back any of this up priperly.. It’s the same old song and dance with him, unfortunately!
Scherzer should NOT be suspended because of the flaws of Commissioner Manfaud and his control issues of the situation.
Scherzer SHOULD be suspended.
Because he’s a cheating elitist pimp.
The game is full of subjectivity.. everything from calls on balls/strikes, fair/foul, out/safe.. and even other offenses that warrant suspension, such as intentionally throwing at a batter.
Even if it was just rosin and sweat, he was warned and told to clean his hand.
Scherzer reapplied rosin while in the dugout prior to taking the mound, which is not allowed.
Scientific fact? You want games delayed multiple times every game to do testing of the substances on the pitcher’s hands? Who does the sampling? Who does the testing? What happens in the game while the testing is being done. We are talking about sophisticated substance testing, not a test strip. That process would take years to negotiate just like the current system did. Remember, the MLBPA had to agree to the rules and both the way the checks are done AND the penalties.
Here are some simple things to consider. The rules say that the only way rosin can be applied is from the rosin bag on the mound. It cannot be placed on gloves, clothes, or other equipment.
Scherzer entered the game for the 4th inning after he supposedly washed the rosin off his hands and was checked by the umpires before he could get to the mound to apply more rosin. His hands were still extremely sticky with rosin. He said that after washing his hands, he reapplied rosin to his hands. How? He never got to the mound.
Scherzer broke the rules and got busted. Now he will pay the penalty that HE agreed to as part of the team that negotiated the CBA, the rules, and the penalties for breaking them.
What we have hear here is failure to communicate … sticky how
The real controversy is whether rosin and resin are indeed the same thing.
Stop rasin Cain, Bronxmac!
Simple fix. Take a sample of the substance if the player is kicked out. If it is a banned substance, player get 80 games like PED users. If it is Rosin then ban the ump for 80 games. Maybe go further agent of the cheater for 80 games for representing a cheater and fine him too.
The ump was doing his job.
Cut the crap.
He’s literally the only ump who has ejected someone for this, and he’s done it three times. Either he’s the only ump “doing his job” or he’s a buffoon. The odds that rosin/sweat would rise to the level of ejection for only Phil Cuzzi and none of the other umpires *three times* is astronomical to the point of incredulity. Cuzzi is a joke.
He’s the guy that does his job.
You must be the other guy.
Rosin isn’t banned, but you’re also not allowed to use infinity amount.
from the mlb rule book
Rule 6.02(d) Comment: …. A pitcher may use the rosin bag for the purpose of applying rosin to his bare hand or hands. Neither the pitcher nor any other player shall dust the ball with the rosin bag; neither shall the pitcher nor any other player be permitted to apply rosin from the bag to his glove or dust any part of his uniform with the rosin bag.
outside of him putting it on his uniform and glove, i dont see it saying a limit there. If he has the time to make a cast out of it he is well within the rules to do so. There is no proof he used something else unless they test the balls he threw. They are supposed to be keeping those for other testing. That or they bag and tagged the glove and swab of his hands like they are also supposed to do. They have no real case. Knowing Scherzer this will go to the courts if he is suspended.
Also if i were to ask the you or even the ump himself how much stickier his hands were compared to thor or even kershaw the day before (best game of the season for him btw) could you give me an actual answer and not subjective one?
Key words, “can use the rosin bag”. Rosin cannot be applied in any other manner to a pitcher’s hands, and it cannot be applied to gloves or any part of the uniform.
Scherzer had rosin on his hands when he was checked prior to entering the field of play before the 4th inning after supposedly washing them.
Scherzer said he reapplied rosin after washing them. Since he never made it to the mound, how did he reapply rosin legally?
@Angel H,
No way. Can’t compare PED’s with something that could end up on a glove beyond the player’s control.. In a dugout full of people, objects, substances, and with so many people handling the baseball, including opposition batters with pine tar on bats, anything could happen.
Under the rules, rosin can be considered a foreign substance and a player can be suspended for its use.
They should’ve run German. Leaving him in and giving him multiple warnings set a bad precedent.
German should have smacked the ump with his glove.
“There! Inspect THAT!”
German smacks women, not men.
Does he have a bottle
Of sweat in the dugout? Im lost here. But clearly if his hands are clumped up and he had 2 warnings, that’s a proper ejection as far as I’m concerned.
So boras chimes in to save face but not the union rep?
In all seriousness do the umpires collect a sample to be sent to a lab?
Mets starters just dropping like flies.
Ohtaini isn’t gonna sign here.
Scherzer IS the union rep for the Mets. The union won’t chime in until a penalty is handed down. No reason to speak about hypotheticals.
They don’t need to collect a sample because rosin itself can be considered a foreign substance. If they did collect one what would be the process? Who would collect it? How would they collect it? How would the testing be done? What would happen to the game while the testing is done? Would the pitcher be removed from the game until the tests came back? That could be days for advanced testing. SO many things that would have to be negotiated with the MLBPA. That won’t happen overnight and MLB cannot impose rule changes like that.
I find it hard to believe Scherzer did what he’s accused of to the detriment of himself and the team in multiple ways. He’s a team guy, was already warned, never wants to miss a start, knows the Mets already have 3-starters on the IL, and that 10-game suspension includes loss of team roster spot for those days.
Scherzer claiming it was nothing more than a booger now, question we must ask ourselves is does a fresh booger increase spin rate, evidence is iffy@ best … it’s “snot” the best argument ever but clouds the process n Manfred’s only concern is can the P produce a boogerball in less than 15secs, maybe he was framed n it’s not even his booger, defense rest
Guilty. He totally tried to pull a Fast One.
Wash your hands, Max!
I’m all in favor of Scherzer getting suspended if he really did cheat however, 90% of the league is cheating as we speak. Either enforce the rules for everyone or don’t enforce them at all. Our rotation is thin as it is. Senga, Megill, and Peterson are the only MLB ready starters that they have available over the next 2 weeks. I’m guessing Butto will fill in one spot and Bundy might get a spot start. Where is Justin Verlander? I haven’t heard anything about his rehab. Every Met fan but me was estatic when they signed him to a 2 year 80 mil contract. Isn’t it obvious that you shouldnt give a 40 year old pitcher who missed a year and a half over the past 3 years with injuries 80 million dollars? I guesd the worst GM in baseball doesn’t know anything
Verlander’s progessing toward live BP and then possible rehab assignment.
I believe reports say short of any setbacks Verlander could be back first week of next month.
Well of course German wasn’t ejected, and Scherzer was.
German pitches for the Yankees. THE Yankees.
Scherzer pitches for…. well…. that ‘other’ NY team.
Lol.
The rule is pretty straightforward in concept, but incredibly difficult in practice. Rosin can be used to maintain a grip, but it can’t be built up to the point it turns into a goop. It sounds to me like the umpires are working conservatively when it comes to ejection rulings.
Also, rosin removes quickly with isopropyl alcohol. Washing hands and using alcohol will remove rosin, water based adhesives and many other adhesives.
Alcohol is not effective at removing some synthetic and petroleum based “sticky” substances. If Scherzer’s hands were still sticky after washing and wiping with alcohol, it seems somewhat reasonable to suspect he was using a foreign substance.
I’m not the one doing the inspections, but it certainly seems to me umpires should be getting some sort of sample for testing.
I prefer to ingest my alcohol internally. Of course, I’m then prone to wild pitches, as well as wild epitaphs toward umpires and other players.
…and death since we’re talking about isopropyl, haha
I didn’t say isopropyl. I said ‘my alcohol’. I’m very much alive.
I used isopropyl in the Navy, as an electronics guy. Very familiar with it.
Another part of the rule that people seem to be missing is this, rosin can only be applied from the bag on the mound. Scherzer was checked prior to entering the field of play for the 4th inning and after he supposedly washed his hands with alcohol. The umpires found that his hands were still sticky.
If it was rosin on his hands, as you said, alcohol would have totally removed the rosin.
THEN after the game Scherzer said that he reapplied rosin to his hands after washing them? HOW? He never made it to the mound.
Either he used a banned foreign substance, or he illegally applied rosin from a source other than the rosin bag. Either way he broke the rules.
I support The Umpires.
You’re an umpire’s supporter.
“Good job, Cuzzi…”
Joe Gerardi walks away, snickering quietly.
Some dudes just suffer from “Idiopathic Hyperhidrosis” meaning that they sweat a lot more than normal. I know where he’s coming from I am one of them. Cheers bud
No sweat, man.
SMH! Why is he cheating?
Because his balls have too much sticky stuff.
Interesting that the umpires involved in this were being subjective and therefore wrong, but all these fan interpretations..for or against Scherzer..are totally objective, and thus correct (even when they contradict each other).
I agree.
Of course, I am totally objective, and also absolutely correct. Always.
If Boras is involved, it’s not just room much rosin by accident.
Welcome to the world of MLBPA grievance on behalf of Scherzer to MLB with Boras chirping as usual. I hate to admit it but I agree with Boras on something…… “Boras said. “If you want to attack the integrity of the competition, you need clear precise standards (or) else you damage the game and its players. The Cuzzi on field spectrometer is not the answer. MLB needs to employ available scientific methods (not subjective) to create verifiable certainly of its rules.”” MLB at its worst, once again…. now with the umpires trying to run the game.