Rotation plans for the Red Sox in the near term have come into focus recently, as manager Alex Cora told reporters (including MassLive’s Chris Cotillo) that right-hander Tanner Houck is likely to start the club’s game against the Orioles on Wednesday, though that could change if he’s needed out of the bullpen before then.
This doesn’t come as much of a surprise, as reports ahead of the activation of righty Brayan Bello from the 15-day IL last week indicated that the club could go with a six-man rotation at least through the off-day on this coming Thursday before transitioning to a five-man rotation that would likely leave Houck as the odd man out. Still, Cotillo goes on to note that the club does have other options: righty Nick Pivetta could be moved to the bullpen instead, or Bello, who was shelled for five runs in 2 2/3 innings of work in his first start coming off the IL, could be demoted to Triple-A.
Of the six members of the Red Sox rotation, Houck has actually been the best starter this season in terms of performance. In 21 innings of work, Houck has posted a solid 4.29 ERA, 11% better than league average by measure of ERA+, and a nearly matching 4.26 FIP. His strikeout (25.5%) and walk (9.3%) rates are largely in line with his career norms, as is his BABIP (.283). The most significant change from previous seasons for Houck in the early going this year is his groundball rate. Houck entered the season with a career groundball rate of 49.3%, but in his four starts this season, that figure has jumped all the way up to 58.9%, good for sixth in the majors among players with at least 20 IP.
While Houck’s start this season is encouraging, Cotillo notes that his success in a multi-inning relief role last year, when he posted a 2.70 ERA in 43 1/3 innings out of the bullpen, makes him a natural choice for the move. Meanwhile, Smith notes that Pivetta has resisted suggestions he could be ticketed for the bullpen after some early season struggles. Pivetta has yet to finish the sixth inning this season in a start and has posted a 4.58 ERA over 19 2/3 innings this season in spite of a deflated .275 BABIP that helps to explain his more worrisome 5.19 FIP.
Even in the event that Houck is ultimately sent to the bullpen, Boston brass will have to make another tough decision when lefty James Paxton returns from the IL, which he could do fairly soon. Paxton, Cotillo notes, has never appeared out of the bullpen in his career and struggled badly out of the bullpen in a rehab stint this season, allowing seven runs in less than an inning of work. With Paxton an unlikely bullpen candidate, the Red Sox are likely to once again be left to decide between a six-man rotation and bumping either Pivetta or Bello from the group when the veteran lefty is ready to be activated.
DBH1969
Moving Hauck to the pen would be idiotic, so that is exactly what they will do.
deweybelongsinthehall
Why? in today’s game, late inning guys are as valuable as starters unless you have old-time starters that are built to pitch deep into games. I’d also send Bello down to get consistent work as a starter
GASoxFan
Dewey – this team needs starting pitching, and, doesn’t have the money to competitively sign free agent quality starters due to the poor perception of a bloom team by free agents.
They need to see if houck can be that guy. With his new pitches he may be just what they need longer term. Plenty of other guys could go back to the pen who haven’t been as promising.
justkidding
doesn’t have the money to competitively sign free agent quality starters due to the poor perception of a bloom team by free agents.
I don’t understand, which is it? Are you saying that the Sox made big offers to free agent pitchers who took less to pitch elsewhere?
Boxscore
Zach Elfin took less from the Ray’s and turned down the Sox offer and that was reported on this site over the off-season. That’s just one of many. Pay attention.
deweybelongsinthehall
I thought it was the same money. Boston could surprise but why do a short deal if a better team wants you for the same or better money? The team I believe will spend once more of the farm is ready to contribute. As for starters, unless their consistently getting to the 7th inning, I’d rather have Houck and Whitlock able to get in twice as many games. Obviously, not everyone agrees. I also want Boston to be the first in getting the pitchers to stop overthrowing so they can go longer. Control should improve.
kingken67
Efflin went to TB because he lives there. That was widely reported as a bag factor in his decision.
deweybelongsinthehall
Thanks. Obviously playing at home for the same money on a better club makes sense. Who would have done differently?
kingken67
That and there’s no state income tax in FL and there is in MA, so the same money isn’t the same money. But that’s not something Bloom has any control over either. But those who want to blame him for everything will overlook a lot of things like that.
lamars
@Boxscore
You should be paying more attention, The deciding factor was that he is for TB and wanted to pitch closer to home. Hence the reason he took less money than with the Red Sox,
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Even in Whitlock’s brilliant 2021 season, he appeared in only 46 games and pitched only 73 innings. You can’t possibly say he would have more of an impact as a reliever if he’s pitching nearly triple the innings as a starter, assuming an average of 6 1/2 innings per start.
If the Sox had 4 or 5 other strong starting pitchers, then I’d endorse Whitlock to the pen. But Bloom has it right this time. With the going rate for quality starting pitchers being MUCH higher than quality relievers, it’s better to ride your inexpensive young pitchers in the rotation and then pay market value for solid relievers … which is EXACTLY what Bloom did last offseason. He spent only $10M on the starting rotation, but he also spent nearly $25M for just one year of Jansen, Martin and Rodriguez. Credit where credit is due, that was smart thinking on Bloom’s part (except the $2M on Brasier, but I won’t go there).
JoeBrady
They make it up as they go along. But honestly, even if he didn’t live there, it is entirely possible for pitchers to love the TB pitching coaches. There might be ten reasons to pick a team.
But the haters won’t care about any of them.
GASoxFan
@justkidding – it’s both.
BOS had a free agent credibility problem. Remember Abreu? It’s not just SP that have spurned bloom and boston.
To get free agents who are in the upper tier to BOS the team has to overpay. It’s a big reason Yoshida required such an overpay to come to Boston as well which isn’t looking good.
Whe you’ve got a bumbling front office that has to overpay and wade into the aged portion of the talent pool because players don’t like the culture and don’t like how veterans are treated, you’ve also got a higher risk of albatross under water deals.
But, Boston can’t spend $150-$200m for front like starters to round out the rotation, which is the point – when you look at market rates for talented guys, it’s not somewhere the club is headed.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Houck has already been stretched out to be a starting pitcher, the worst thing you can do is throw him back into the BP. He wouldn’t be an effective starting pitcher again this season if he gets jerked around like he did 2 years ago. And he’s far more valuable in the rotation, where there’s a greater need for him. The back end of the BP is just fine.
As for Bello, he’d probably improve more by pitching in relief against ML batters.
Tigers3232
@Fever, I think John Smoltz would disagree with you here
Randy Red Sox
Bello needs to stay IN the rotation. He is the only real young SP prospect we have at this point. Pivetta will ALWYS be a guy with a 4.50- 5.00 era who turns in brilliant performance about every 6th start. Houck also needs to stay in the rotation. Whitlock and Sale also. Paxton is a crap shoot at this point and can’t be counted on. Kluber was just a plain dumb signing by Bloom.
deweybelongsinthehall
Bello needs to start but perhaps at AAA. As for Houck, I’ve constantly stated he belongs in the late innings. If the team is out of it at the deadline and a good offer comes in for Jansen, make the trade and Houck is the closer. Let him learn from him now. If the team stays in the race, it will probably be because of a lock down pen (assuming good health and everyone does their job).
Fever Pitch Guy
Tigers – I don’t understand what you mean about Smoltz? There wasn’t any season where he bounced around between rotation and bullpen.
He was a pure starter from his 1988 ML debut through his first 5 games in 2001, after which he became a pure reliever (because he was awful as a starter) until 2005 when he became a pure starter again.
It’s not at all the same as Houck, a very good starter, getting bounced around between the rotation and bullpen in the same season.
Tigers3232
@Fever, my bad didn’t realize u specifically pointed out during season. Thought u meant transitioning to BP in general.
Fever Pitch Guy
Tigers – No worries, all good. One of my all-time favorite pitchers, Eck, made one of the greatest mid-career transitions to the bullpen.
Boxscore
So relievers who pitch only 50-70 innings are as valuable as starters who pitch 150-200+ innings according to you. Just stop posting stupidity if you want to be taken seriously. What an absolutely stupid comment.
JoeBrady
So Mo Rivera is not as valuable as Wakefield since he only pitched one inning at a time? Y’all need to get away from using absolutes. A good pitcher is better than a regular RP. A mediocre SP is not as valuable as a 2-inning shot down RP.
Boxscore
The discussion here is who should relieve based on performance or value to the team if you will. If relief pitchers were as valuable as starters as you and the other poster believe this discussion wouldn’t be taking place. Try looking up value.
deweybelongsinthehall
Some pitchers get hammered the second time around. Stop viewing in the abstract. Whitlock and Houck have both shown small samples of what they could be as a starter but neither has been consistent nor nearly as good as they’ve been as a reliever.
deweybelongsinthehall
Teams are built to play together and some individual parts just fit better in certain spots. Look at Betts with LA. He wants to play short given their situation but that would weaken two positions. Same thing with the staff. N
JoeBrady
The career OPS for Whitlock & Houck 1st, 2nd, & 3rd time thru:
Whitlock
1st .665
2nd .843
3rd 1.064
As an RP .603
Houck
1st .489
2nd .683
3rd 1.71
As an RP .570
That’s not to say they couldn’t improve their splits, But at some point, decisions have to made. Same with Winckowski. It’s too early to say whether or not he could be a starter, but as well as he is pitching out of the BP, why take a chance.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – Using Rivera as a comp is horrible, because he was never good as a starting pitcher (you probably never knew he began his ML career as a starting pitcher).
When Mariano was making the most in his career ($15M), his teammate Sabathia was making $24M. And as you probably know, Mariano is considered the greatest reliever of all-time while Sabathia will probably just barely get into the HOF.
Fever Pitch Guy
Boxscore – Exactly! And it’s not even just the huge disparity in IP.
There’s basically 5 SP and 8 relievers on every team, so of course being one of five in a set rotation is more critical than being one of eight in a fluid bullpen.
If Jansen cannot pitch in a game because he pitched the prior two days, or if he gives up the tying runs in the 9th, there’s always other relievers ready to fill in. Not so with SP, if a SP has a bad game he doesn’t get replaced with one of seven other starting pitchers.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – You must have missed my detailed summary of Houck’s ML career.
He has BETTER numbers as a reliever than as a starter.
Better K-per-9 IP
Better K-to-BB Ratio
And his WHIP is an identical 1.14 as both a SP and RP
Sure his ERA is a little higher as a starter, but we all know how misleading reliever ERA can be due to situational pitching.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – I agree with you there. Kiké playing SS defensively weakened two positions for sure, not to mention it also took a toll on his hitting.
Boxscore
Typical of the clown show thinking recently since they brought Bloom on. The bums like Clobered Kluber get to keep on losing games while the guys pitching their ass off get demoted. Really tiresome.
lamars
Kluber was signed to be an innings eater and because the rotation had injury concerns with Sale, Paxton and Whitlock. It was a good move on their part and no one could have predicted how bad of a start he would have.
Fever Pitch Guy
lamar – You are half right. I agree nobody could have predicted how bad he’s been, which is likely due to his mechanics as his walks are way up.
But Bloom certainly wouldn’t have given $10M for a guy to be an innings-eater. He was counted on to be the #2 starting pitcher, he even pitched the season opener for God’s sake!
RSmith
“The bums like Clobered Kluber ”
Love how Haters got to constantly talk about the Worst player on the team. Free Agent pitcher that cost 10M, they expect Gerrit Cole.
lamars
Fever – I know you know your stuff. But c’mon man, you are dead wrong in this case as $10 million is chump change these days. Why did he pitch the season opener? because of injuries to the pitching staff. Sale, Houck and Whitlock weren’t ready and Pivetta wasn’t going to pitch the opener. The guy pitched 165 innings last year and had a 4.34 ERA pitching for the Rays. Whether he was a #2 or #5 starter he was brought in to eat up innings with this young staff of Houck, Whitlock and Bello,
Here is a list of starting pitching making $10 million or more on a 1 year deal.
Kershaw $20 million
M. Perez $19.7 million
Syndergaard $13 milliom
Clevinger $12 million
Kluber $10 million
Gibson $10 million
Boyd $10 million
Making less than $10 million
Zack Greinke $8.5 million resigned with KC or he would have made more
Cueto $8.5 and Rich Hill $8 million.
Fever Pitch Guy
Lamar – I appreciate the compliment and I respect what you brought to the table.
Yes Whitlock was on the IL to start the season. Sale was healthy, Cora said he supposedly feared Sale would be too amped up to start the season opener (I think Cora was full of crap, but that’s what he said). Houck and Pivetta were healthy but neither are Opening Day material.
Regardless, you’ve changed my mind … and thanks for bringing the list of salaries, I can’t believe Martin Perez is making nearly $20M for one season!!!
lamars
Fever – Shocked me as well. Plus a few others like how does Kyle Gibson and Boyd each get $ 10 million?
Fever Pitch Guy
lamar – I remember now, Perez accepted the QO which is why he’s making that much. It was the right decision for both parties, the Rangers don’t get stuck with a multi-year deal in case 2022 was just a fluke and Perez gets another crack at a big multi-year deal if he performs again this year.
Boyd I could kinda see, over the past 5 years he has a 4.57 ERA and respectable 1.234 WHIP.
Gibson has been really good every 3rd year, which means the O’s signed him a year too soon. Haha! But so far he’s been really good for them.
Randy Red Sox
who is Hauck??
JoeBrady
Houck has been with us for four years. You need to get more familiar with the roster.
KD17
Randy – I believe his first name is Ralph!!! hahaha
Fever Pitch Guy
KD – I believe Hauck is a reference to Hauckeye Pierce, the star surgeon in the TV show *MASH*.
User 3180623956
Fever, you’re wrong he was referring to Haukleberry Hound
Horace Fury
After Saturday night’s performance, in which Whitlock was unusually hittable, I’m still wondering if we will hear that he is injured. That would add to the calculations of who’s in, who’s out.
Mi Casas es tu Casas
Kluber or Bello should be the one moved to the bullpen stop being a dumba$$ cora
deweybelongsinthehall
If I could, I’d do an overhaul and change the entire rotation outside of Sale who hopefully just needs time and work. His last start aside, the team’s starters have overall been horrible.
lamars
And who would the 4 starters be to fill out the rest of your roster?
deweybelongsinthehall
Does it really matter? They got Mayer because of a bottom finish. Either compete or rebuild by protecting those you believe in. Bello has the stuff but may not be ready. If the team chose to sign often injured players, finding other bodies won’t be hard.
lamars
Hell ya it matters! Do you really think an already disgruntled fan base would be ok with Sale and a cast of nobodies or rejects? That would be the death knell for the Red Sox nation.
GASoxFan
When it comes to paxton, put him in the pen as the sacrificial guy to be shelled when a game is out of reach.
Or just DFA and put him on waivers.
You don’t make the rotation weaker just because he was a stupid signing and picked up a player option. It’s $4m. They’ve wasted way more than that in the last 4 years.
Besides, getting good long looks at the young arms is worth more than anything paxton would contribute, even if he puts up 4.00 era starts which early results aren’t promising for.
This team is what some of us said they were this offseason. Figure out the future arms, don’t upend the process for paxton.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Even if Bloom didn’t already dump a load of cash on Paxton, the guy still deserves a chance to show what he can do. And with his age and medical history, he probably wouldn’t adapt well to a reliever role.
KD17
FPG – I will need to actually see Paxton on a MLB mound before I will start thinking about his role. Fool me once….. fool me a couple dozen times…..
Occams_hairbrush
Agreed.,
Go with the young guys that have upside.
Fever Pitch Guy
KD – I agree, but the one rehab relief appearance could indicate that psychologically Kiuber isn’t cut out to be a reliever.
It’s like how some relievers always pitch awfully when they come in during the middle of an inning.
Baseball is 90% mental, and the other half physical.
miltpappas
Kluber should be moved to Worcester
all in the suit that you wear
I doubt Cora makes any of these decisions by himself.
KD17
AITSTYW – Based on what? So you think his best buddy’s son playing is being forced on him from above? Seriously? He’s lucky to fit through the door with his ego. Any bench guy who has the balls to tell Sale how to pitch isn’t taking orders from above. He still has video of himself telling the owners about the Video Room cheating scheme in 2018 so he does WHATEVER he wants.
all in the suit that you wear
KD: Teams have big coaching staffs and analytics departments. I doubt managers make decisions by themselves. MLB never uncovered any evidence of cheating when they investigated the 2018 Red Sox. Mookie recently said it was an infrequent thing. No cheating could have occurred in the postseason because MLB put a monitor in each team’s replay room.
KD17
AITSTYW – First, do you know how many people are in the analytics department of a MLB team? It’s not as many as you might think.
As far as the 2018 cheating that Cora did….. Have you ever watched a murder mystery where a guy speaks up about a cartel or the mafia and then recants his statement? Multiple sources were interviewed by the Athletic and then each Red Sox employee recanted their comments. You don’t have to be Dick Tracy to figure out the who done it when you have a convict leading the charge in a similar caper.
The cheating was minimal compared to the Houston cheating that impacted up to 90 games but it was still significant enough that games could have been impacted during the regular season. Most detectives don’t believe in coincidences and the fact that Cora was in Houston and Boston when both teams were accused of cheating speaks volumes to the chances that he was dirty in both cases. The Players Association prevented justice from being done and of course it helps to have a lame commissioner. He needed to sweep the scandal under the rug as fast as possible before it became his legacy. There has been no justice with regard to either scandal. Just a minor slap on the hands and a make-up kiss when it comes to Cora. What a joke!!
When I see Cora I always see an orange jumpsuit!!!
KD17
AI – As a follow up in 2022 here are the top teams in baseball and bottom teams in baseball for analytics personnel.
Rays – 37
Dodgers – 29
Phillies – 27
…..
Rockies – 5
White Sox – 5
The As with the lowest payroll had 8.
Dodgers and Mets with the highest payrolls had 29 and 26 respectively.
Six of the thirty teams had less than 10 employees.
Eight of the thirty teams had over 20 employees.
Now break down the areas within the analytics department and how they work with the coaching staff and then tell me who has the final say on the field? Yes, Cora has many advisors but he reports to NONE of them.
It’s his call because his job depends on his choices, or at least it should!!
all in the suit that you wear
KD: Sounds like you have not read MLB’s report about the investigation of the 2018 Red Sox. Manfred himself was interviewing people. Despite that and months of investigation, in their report, MLB said they have a “factual dispute”, “largely have no direct evidence” and “no written record, recording or other contemporaneous evidence of the underlying events”. If there was any evidence, the facts would not be in dispute. The conclusion of cheating “on at least some occasions” was clearly based on speculation as MLB’s investigation failed to document a single occasion of cheating by admission, eye witness or any other means. I don’t believe the anonymous sources The Athletic claimed to have.
KD17
AITSTYW – I read the breaking news as it happened. I read as each Red Sox employee backed down from their statements to the Athletic. Reading fiction made up by Manfred seems meaningless to me. He gave 3 clowns a 60 game sentence for cheating on up to 90 games. He gets absolutely no respect from me after dishonoring the memory of all those players in MLB history who didn’t cheat.. He’s a politician not a commissioner. He lies for a living.
Do you even remember the details of how all the 2018 cheating was uncovered then covered up?
Lets review the sequence of events. The Athletic goes to print on a scandal related to the media room when multiple employees of the Red Sox organization tell them about the way Cora had designed the system to work. This was a follow-up to the Houston Astros scandal involving the same Alex the Cheat Cora.
During the Astros investigation the MLBPA insisted that no player talked without their supervision of the discussion. The commissioner was looking to be a protege of Selig (the liar) and wanted to save baseball yet again by ridding it of sign stealing so he initially went after the story with vigor.
Once all sides were heard, the proof of the Astros cheating was documented by players because the commissioner gave them amnesty. Then the Red Sox got a break because the names of those testifying were leaked to the public and the players were vilified. Thus, all those who testified initially to the Athletic reporters saw the consequences of having their names leaked and took the fifth instead of coming forward and helping to clean up baseball.
So basically, the cat was out of the bag and the Players Association pushed the cat back into the bag and pretended nothing happened. The Red Sox weren’t indicted like the Astros because the eye witnesses clammed up so there was no official proof. Just the words that were shared with the Athletic reporters.
Would Red Sox employees be motivated to make the facts up about what Cora did to put the Media Room cheating scheme in play during the 2018 season? It certainly doesn’t seem anymore likely that the witnesses made up the story (lied) than it would seeing an eye witness to murder come forward and then change their minds when their family is threatened by the people doing the crimes.
If you want to naively believe those people were all mistaken and came to their senses, that’s fine. I don’t. They were coerced out of their testimonies just like in normal life outside of baseball.
So does that mean it didn’t happen? Only to a fan who is ok with closing their eyes to the truth.
So if you don’t believe the anonymous sources and the detailed accounts documented by legitimate reporters with the Athletic, then next time you read something on this site, just ignore it. It’s the same type of liars that made up the Red Sox cheating scandal.
You’ve heard the phrase “if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck” haven’t you? The updated version is “if it looks like a Cora, cheats like Cora, then it must be Cora!!”
all in the suit that you wear
KD: Anonymous sources are nothing. They could be made up. The other part of this is that The Athletic’s reporter Evan Drellich may have had an axe to grind with Boston. He could not last at many places in the Boston market (NBCSports Boston, Boston Herald, WBZ-TV Boston, MassLive.com). Drellich was also the reporter that David Price was screaming at if you remember that incident after a game in 2017. Drellich also worked for the Houston Chronicle before Boston and didn’t last there either. Even if you disregard this, I think you are crazy to believe anything from an anonymous source.
Rsox
Houck is the best pitcher on the team right now. Pivetta has scuffled but pitched better last time out. Kluber’s been terrible, Whitlock has been a mixed bag and we’ll see how Bello does today.
Whitlock is better suited for the bullpen and the bullpen is better when he’s in it
kripes-brewers
Can’t wait to see how Bello does today against the Crew with that 16+ ERA! We’ll take every opportunity to win series, thank you very much…
Boxscore
Bello is out pitching Burnes so far. Troll somewhere else.
Occams_hairbrush
You posted 10 minutes too soon.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
This post aged poorly
all in the suit that you wear
The Red Sox crushed the Brewers 12-5 today and won 2 out of 3 this weekend. You’re welcome.
Claydagoat
What does that have to do with the conversation?
Claydagoat
Kluber is the one that needs to go.
This years team isn’t winning anything, so why not develop guys like Bello, Whitlock and Hauck?
TBH, I wouldn’t mind them trading Sale for prospects either.
solaris602
They’ll probably ride him until he breaks down. The Klubot is clearly outta gas, but he isn’t injured, and for that reason I think they’re just gonna leave him alone in the rotation.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
What prospects are any team giving up for Sale? Let’s also take into account how much of that contract they’re going to have to keep for anyone to take him
Occams_hairbrush
If Sale pitches a couple more games like that last one all sorts of teams would trade for him. He’s only got one more year on the books.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
No, they won’t. He’s still on the books for this year and next. Nobody is taking him without the Sox eating at least half
Occams_hairbrush
And? Then eat half,. Who cares?
What point are you missing? It’s ok if you disagree but you don’t even seem to get it.
Dump him get a couple of mid-level prospects, and let the young guys pitch.
deweybelongsinthehall
Definitely not. Too early. If Sale pitches like last time, Fenway is electric regardless of their record. Wait until the deadline unless you fear another injury.
Occams_hairbrush
Too early for what?
Red Sox aren’t winning this year and Sale could get hurt tomorrow mowing his lawn. If you’re gonna rebuild, do it right.
acell10
“Sale could get hurt tomorrow mowing his lawn.”
Fair point
Occams_hairbrush
I can’t believe people are advocating for paying Sale another 57 million dollars over the next 2 years.
Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree
Yeah no thanks, I don’t want Chaim Bloom shopping for more mid-level prospects. Here’s an idea: hang on to Sale, let the losses pile up and collect those top 5 draft picks
Occams_hairbrush
“let the losses pile up”
You’re arguing against yourself.
justkidding
You are exactly right, but a lot of people have a hard time understanding trade value. Every GM in baseball knows exactly what the Sox know. There is no prospect haul coming for Sale.
Randy Red Sox
Bloom will keep Sale till he walks as a FA just like he did with XB, JDM, and Eovaldi. He will value those 4th rd picks.
Occams_hairbrush
Did I say “prospect haul” or” prospects”?
I am not expecting a “haul”
I am talking about getting rid of him and his salary for “prospects”
I think you’re the one not understanding trade value. I am talking a salary dump for whatever they can get.
lamars
XB huge overpay, miss him but not for that much. I loved JDM while he was here, but I prefer Turner over JDM as he can play 1B, 3B while JDM is strictly a DH these days. And while Eovaldi pitched good to great for us he clearly was looking for that next pay day.
Boxscore
Add getting rid of Bloom and the coaching staff and I’m in agreement. This franchise is going nowhere fast with the same lousy decision makers in charge.
RSmith
You clearly arent watching the games.
oot
There are five comments thus far, three mentioning Tanner Houck. Of those three, one managed to spell Houck correctly. Impressive.
Occams_hairbrush
Even more impressive is derailing a baseball conversation, on a baseball website no less, to talk about the correct spelling of a players name.
Bravo.
Claydagoat
It was a very well-written comment about nothing though… Everything was spelled perfectly.
Boxscore
Spelling queen in the house yall
william-2
Houck is an above average piece in a rotation. Basically, he is a mid 3’s to 4+ ERA guy in that role with 1.2+ WHIP. He certainly is more effective out of the pen seeing a lineup once, but the tradeoff isn’t all that much on a team with bad pitching.
If we had viable, talented, consistent, and durable alternatives to replace him this would be a non-issue. He would go to the pen. We don’t. We are already forcing Bello into the rotation when he would have been much better served pitching out of the pen for his first full season gradually building his usage as a multi-inning guy, and gradually increasing the difficulty of his situational use.
There are no real answers to fixing this staff other than huge, marked improvements by most of these guys. They counted on overachieving, and positive rebounds from health issues. We are thin in the minors. No real help is incoming from within.
Management knew going into this season there was nearly zero chance at making the playoffs. I do not expect them to bring in talent outside of a late season surprise trade looking forward to the following year, which in that case would mean losing pieces at the same time. I think that is the way forward. If they weren’t thinking in that direction they are fools. If you look at the contracts, this team is built so that the vast majority of players can be discarded. 24 1yr contracts, 4 2yr contracts in Jansen, Turner, Martin, Blier, then 4+ years in Whitlock, Sale, Devers, Yoshida, and Story.
If the approach has been (as they say over and over) to build a consistent winning team over time built on evaluating and finding value, I cannot fathom how they are spending so much money for so many questionable health guys and mediocrity. What happened to the consistent winning part of the equation? I know Bloom is a dead man walking, but I wonder if the Sox learn anything at all, and if they do, does it stick?
Randy Red Sox
William that is a brilliant post except for 1 small detail. I totally agree that many of the signings Bloom has made are trade candidates at the deadline but after watching Bloom let XB, JDM, and Eovaldi walk for nothing but 4th rd or later picks i have no confidence in him getting and reasonable value back at the deadline.
Boxscore
That’s just it tho. If Bloom was only horrid at one part of his job it would be one thing but he’s terrible at trades, negotiations and player elavuation the holy trifecta of sucking. The sooner they fire Bloom the better. He’s already done enough damage already.
DBH1969
@Boxscore, regarless if anyone agrees or disagrees, ” the holy trifecta of sucking” is the funniest comment so far this year!
Bravo, Boxscore. Bravo!
lamars
Randy,
The RS were in talks with XB and got blown out the water by the offer the Padres made, they under estimated his value. JDM wasn’t going to get you anything at the trade deadline and nor was Eovaldi, but were worth a 4th round pick.
Bruin1012
Houck, Bello, Whitlock, Sale need to be in the rotation. Houck is adding new pitches to his repertoire he is a viable big league starter. Whitlock has a starters mix and he should continue to go out as a starter let him work through kinks but I feel he will be a solid starter. You also need to let Bello start he easily has the best stuff in this rotation and out of everyone has true ace potential based on stuff and I think he has moxee as well. Sale also needs to be in the rotation to see if he can recapture his true #1 perfrormance. Easily the next most important young pitchers are the maturation of swing men Winckowski and Crawford who could step in as starters if needed but are very valuable in that swingman role. There’s a lot to like about the young pitchers Boston currently has.
The fact is this team just isn’t as good as the the big top 3 in AL East they just aren’t so let’s give these young pitchers all the experience they need this year keep throwing them out there. At this point we need to start thinking about next year and how can this rooster be improved. Next years free agent class is weak and more and more teams are extending their free agents to be. One way imo to improve next years roster is to get these guys as much experience as possible these guys are the future let’s let them pitch maybe take some lumps this year and start planning for next year.
Claydagoat
Exactly, Bello, Houck, and Whitlock all need to be in the rotation over Paxton and Kluber. They aren’t doing anything this year anyway.
If they just let the young guys play this year could actually be fun.
william-2
“Need” is a strong term on a team that has little to no chance of making the playoffs. I am for anything that adds marked improvements to the talent level and by doing so pushes dead weight off the team roster, especially this pitching staff. I think Bello was better served out of the pen his first full year to gain reps, and much needed exp in handpicked situations, but throwing him in the rotation is fine if you don’t mind the ugly learning curve for him. We were in dire need of a top end arm for the rotation, and we failed there.
We “need” Whitlock in the rotation? I don’t mind what they are doing because I support starting guys in the pen and moving them into the rotation if they have stuff, and 3+ quality pitches. Need? You think his rotation slot is the piece that we will need to get us 4th place? See my point? I support him in the rotation because it was the natural progression, and if it works will solve 1 problem of which we have so many.
Claydagoat
@William. You definitely aren’t getting what I am saying. I am not talking about “getting in 4th place”
I am not talking about this year at all. I am talking about playing the young guys and seeing what they have to offer.
william-2
I get what you’re saying. I am just pointing out that this team has zero chance of making the playoffs unless unusually terrible luck happens to multiple teams in regard to many of their top players getting injured.
We have a depth of mediocrity that should allow us to bring guys along at a preferred speed and in preferred roles. We aren’t hurting like smaller market teams to even find 26 major leaguers within the system causing rushes, and we aren’t on the cusp of the playoffs.
I think your point of your preferred outcomes is valid, it just isn’t needed today, tomorrow, or even this year.
lamars
And the Giants won 107 games in 2021 so anything is possible.
Occams_hairbrush
You got way too hung up on the word “need”.,
I used a lot of other words, if you want to move on from that one.
MafiaBass
Bello, Whitlock, and Houck would all play up in the bullpen. I think Bello would be the best option of the three for it, but they’re all starters next year.
Bruin1012
Bello was outstanding in his last 5 starts last season don’t mess with the kid he needs to start and preferably at the big league level but if not then he needs to be starting in AAA. The bottom line he needs to start somewhere.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – Umm …. of his last 5 starts last year, one game he gave up 3 ER in 5 1/3 innings including 3 hits and 4 walks.
In his final start of 2022 he gave up 4 ER in 4 innings including 10 hits and 2 walks.
Thank about that … 10 hits and 2 walks in just 4 innings. Hearing you call that “outstanding” makes me think you’d be a perfect fit writing columns for MLBTR! Haha!!
Bruin1012
Fever forgot about that last game of the year but the five games before that he was really good. He was outstanding in NY the game before that. He was basically really good after the rough start when he stopped trying to nibble until the last game against Toronto. He just needs to trust his stuff it’s legit.
JoeBrady
Bruin – Umm …. of his last 5 starts last year, one game he gave up 3 ER in 5 1/3 innings including 3 hits and 4 walks.
====================================
Just so I understand your statement, because it sounds a little crazier than most:
Bello had a 3.20/2.88 ERA/FiP in his final 5 games, but that doesn’t qualify as outstanding because he gave up runs un 2 of those innings?
Bruin1012
Joe, he was solid today as well his stuff is legit he needs to be in the rotation he may take a few lumps but his stuff is starters stuff.
JoeBrady
Fever forgot about that last game of the year but the five games before that he was really good.
===================================
He was actually a lot better than that.. In his final 10 games (8 GS), he an ERA/FIP of 3.18/2.69. So he was outstanding for his final 10, and not just his final 5 (with an acknowledgement to Fever that not all 45.1 IPs were shutout innings).
deweybelongsinthehall
I’d still rather he be at Worcester and not worry about stats. Just pitch. The team gave him an early lead and he couldn’t hold it. Obviously the start was better than his first one but overall it was an average start at best.
lamars
Dewey,
Rome wasn’t built in a day and it was only his 2nd start after missing the start of the season. He had one bad inn vs a team that was 14-6 coming into the series. He needs to be pitching in the major than the minors where he has nothing left to prove.
Fever Pitch Guy
Bruin – I agree with everything you wrote. I think he will be a really good starting pitcher, I’m just not so sure that will happen this year.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I’ll dumb it down for you.
Bello was quite good in 3 of his final 5 games last season.
Bello was not good in 1 of his final 5 games last season.
Bello was awful in 1 of his final 5 games last season.
If you want to lower the bar by calling all 5 games “outstanding” that’s your choice. Personally I’m not a bar-lowering guy.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – You really need to understand statistics better.
Even if you look at his September 14th game in which he gave up zero earned runs, he still threw 98 pitches in just 5 innings.
I suppose to you that’s also “outstanding”?
KD17
FPG = Every time you address something to JB I can’t help but laugh and think about how nice it is to have him muted. Logical arguments are great for discussions and that’s simply not going to happen.
As far as the young pitchers go, we have several good ones and we need Sale to get back in shape so for me, I’d like to see Kluber be the long relief guy since he’s been very ineffective as expected. That way we can see all the young SPs and figure out who are the best ones. Personally, I like Houck the most because he seems to have a bulldog mentality. Whitlock is a one young guy I’m not sure is best suited for starting.. His excellence as single inning fireman still stands out as his greatest strength but if he can get a chance to prove himself as a starter Boston should invest in trying to get him in the long=term rotation. Bello simply needs experience so he needs to stay in the rotation. Pivetta is a nice #4 starter for now and in the future. Building confidence in Winckowski, Schreiber, Bleier and Ort will make the future brighter as well. Kutter Crawford needs to be in the rotation like Sale, Houck, Bello and Whitlock. Mata needs to work AAA in case of injury so Kluber can remain in the long relief role.
The team is over performing right now so people get their hopes up but they just climbed back up to their 74 win pace that I documented. So why not use the youngsters and let Kluber be the “filler” guy? That’s probably best for the future of the team. Having a great set of young pitchers going into 2024 allows the new GM to re-build the offense that Bloom tore down.
I applaud your patience with certain responders. For me, the discussions I get in now are so much better than they were before I muted a few key contributors that really don’t understand the game.
Are you a teacher outside of this forum? That would make sense!! 🙂 haha
JoeBrady
“outstanding” is subjective, but how would you rate a 3.20/2.88 ERA/FiP. The 3.20 would have ranked 10th in the AL last year, and the FIP would rank #5. How is that anything but outstanding?
JoeBrady
Even if you look at his September 14th game in which he gave up zero earned runs, he still threw 98 pitches in just 5 innings.
I suppose to you that’s also “outstanding”?
===============================
Allowing -0- runs in 5 innings against the NYY definitely outstanding. If we get 162 starts of a 5-inning shutout, we’ll be the winningest team in history.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I’ve said this soooo many times, look behind the numbers!
What teams was he pitching against?
Were any of those games meaningful in the standings or playoff race?
Did he leave any of the games with runners on base?
How many pitches did he throw?
Were many of the outs loud hard hit balls?
How many innings did he pitch?
Was it the first time he faced several of the teams?
Plenty of pitchers have been demoted or released with low ERA’s from a SSS …. for a reason!
Look up Kevin Morton’s career pitching logs … really, look them up and then get back to me.
Fever Pitch Guy
KD – I’m not a teacher, but as a manager I do a LOT of teaching and yes it requires great patience!
JoeBrady
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I’ve said this soooo many times, look behind the numbers!
What teams was he pitching against?
==========================
He pitched against well above average offenses, which makes his results even better. Thanks for pointing that out.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – You still haven’t learned that you can’t pull a fast one on me, eh?
Here’s the lineup where he labored through 98 pitches in just 5 innings:
1.102 OPS Judge 3 PA’s
.766 OPS Stanton 3 PA’s
.729 OPS Torres 3 PA’s
.688 OPS Donaldson 3 PA’s
.523 OPS Cabrera 3 PA’s
.650 OPS Falefa 2 PA’s
.596 OPS Gonzalez 2 PA’s
.689 OPS Trevino 2 PA’s
.617 OPS Hicks 2 PA’s
That’s 6 of 9 batters with an OPS below .690 and the only hitter with an OPS above .766 is Judge.
FTR – League average was .706 which means only 3 of the 9 batters were at least average hitters.
Anything else you wanna try to pull out your butt? Hahaha!
JoeBrady
League average was .706
=============================
The weighted average of the guys you mentioned is 719.
How often do you want to be wrong about something as simple as Bello shutting out the NYY for 5 innings?
Is there even a single person in here (besides you) that doesn’t think shutting out the NYY for five innings is not extremely impressive?
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – Bello never shut out the Yankees over 5 innings.
If a pitcher gives up 3 unearned runs and gets pinned with the loss, it’s not a shutout performance. Is there a single baseball fan anywhere (other than you) that thinks differently?
I’ve already provided game details and stats for every hitter in the Yankee lineup that day. It was a garbage lineup, only 3 of 9 batters were above league average in OPS.
And all you can provide in response is “They da Yankees, whoever plays for da Yankees must be a great hitter.”
You’re letting your Yankee fandom show.
You’ve lost, take the L and move on.
JoeBrady
How about seeing if a single person agrees with you.
Allowing unearned runs is a fair point, but he had a K, E6, GB single, another K, and a single driving in a run, with two more scoring on a throwing error.
But I will take that outing 100 out of a 100 times.
Jack Marshall
Typical Boston negative hysteria. The bullpen has been outstanding, and it should be clear that the offense is good enough. Of course Houck needs to stay in the rotation: he’s a rising star, and the team has strong long-relief already. Sale’s last start showed that he still has ace stuff. Pivetta is solid;. Whitlock is also obviously a young stud: making a big deal out of last night’s start is silly. If Paxton can pitch like he did before his injury, of course he deserves a shot at the rotation.
The rotation is a potential strength that hasn’t been sorted out yet. (Kluber might have to be DFA’d—we’ll see.) The conventional wisdom that the Sox aren’t play-off contenders is just lazy. Watch.
Occams_hairbrush
I mean, 20 teams are “playoff contenders”
deweybelongsinthehall
Jack, this team needs many more arms to stay competitive. At the present rate, the Sox pen will be burnt out by the ASG.
AL34
Kluber, I have a feeling with one more bad start will be DFA’d. He is not a good finesse pitcher. Is anyone in the minors pitching well with the exception of Bello that can be added to the rotation? This is going to be Bloom’s last year with another last place finish.
RSmith
Lol! Good one. 10M and a vet and you give him til the end of April to prove himself.
Bruin1012
Jack I don’t think it’s lazy to say that barring crazy injuries Boston really isn’t a postseason contender but it’s not all doom and gloom either there are positives. The problem is the AL in general I just don’t see the Red Sox finishing ahead of Tampa, Toronto or NY. I think there are just too many quality teams in the AL. If we assume they aren’t going to finish above 4th in the AL then it’s going to be real tough to get to the postseason. I guess all three wild card teams could come from the AL East but then you would have to beat out the Orioles and that’s no sure thing.
cpdpoet
Pivetta to the pen will produce fireworks for sure, like his head blowing up.
Hope he sticks in rotation….All the guy has done is grind it out.
Fever Pitch Guy
poet – I totally agree! Take away his ONE bad start against the Angels, and he’s given up just 4 ER in 3 GS (15 2/3 IP) with a K/BB ratio of 3.16
Sure he’ll have a handful of clunkers throughout the season, but all the brilliant outings more than make up for it..
AL34
They completed the easy part of their schedule with the exception of Tampa and lost all 4 games to them. With all the winning they have been doing they are .500 and in last place in the division. They actually gained a half game. Now the schedule starts to get difficult. They are unfortunately a last place team and I hope this spells the end of Chaim Bloom and his Reign of Incompetence. In 4 years the Red Sox will have finished in last place with one year where they played over their heads. I am tired of Bloom’s offseasons where he constantly disappoints and picks up underwhelming bargain ball players except for a few that overachieve. How he let Bogaerts go when he could have signed him last year for a lot cheaper than he signed for. John Henry please get a GM who knows what he is doing.
miltpappas
If Bloom returns in 2024, I anticipate a lot of empty seats at Fenway. Everything I’ve read and heard tell me that their fans are fed up.
Mi Casas es tu Casas
There’s already a lot of empty seats at fenway don’t you watch the games
RSmith
Theres a lot of empty seats in a lot of stadiums. Havent you heard? Baseball is out with the kids, hence the rule changes
axios.com/2022/07/20/mlb-baseball-attendance-falli…
JoeBrady
So many things for RS fans to be concerned about, which aren’t concerns at all. Next up will be an in-depth analysis of the Fenway franks, and the beer experience.
Occams_hairbrush
Beer experience is NOT GOOD
Fever Pitch Guy
syco – MLB cares more about beer revenue than they do about fan safety.
Remember when every park stopped selling beer after the 7th inning?
Well because games are going so much faster now, beer sales are way down. So MLB approved selling beer through the 8th inning. That means fans can buy beer right up to about 15 minutes before the game ends if it ends after the top of the 9th.
WORST COMMISSIONER IN MY LIFETIME.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – If you seriously don’t realize the correlation between revenue and payroll, then you don’t know John Henry or the business world.
JoeBrady
AL3426 mins ago
They completed the easy part of their schedule
==========================
The RS strength of schedule actually #2 out of 30 teams. And you were so close to getting something right.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I could use a laugh this evening, so please tell me what their strength of schedule is actually based on.
JoeBrady
SOS is based on the records of the teams they faced. Our opponents winning % this year is an almost impossible .621.
Occams_hairbrush
Red sox are definitely holding their own.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – Records at the time the games were played? Or records of those teams as of right now?
You get why I’m asking, don’t ya?
JoeBrady
Right now. and no, I have no idea of why you are asking. This is the accepted calculus for SOS.
JoeBrady
I’d go with a 6-man rotation at least one more time thru.
Sale
Pivetta
Houck
Kluber
Bello
Whitlock
With the understanding that Houck, Whitlock & Kluber are on a short leash.
JoeBrady
or Bello, who was shelled for five runs in 2 2/3 innings of work in his first start coming off the IL, could be demoted to Triple-A.
==============================
The writer is an idiot. Bello isn’t getting demoted on the basis of one bad inning.
all in the suit that you wear
Joe: Agreed that Bello will not go back to AAA where he pitched to a 2.76 ERA last year. He has nothing left to prove there.
Fever Pitch Guy
suit – I totally agree with you, Bello needs to stay in the majors and facing ML hitters.
RSmith
Red Sox have played 15 of their 22 game against above .500 teams. Those games include first place teams Tampa (4) Milwaukee (2) Minnesota (3). They’ve had one easy series (the Tigers). Everyone else they’ve played have a .476 or better record.
Thats the “easy part of their schedule”. People are funny when they lie.
JoeBrady
People are funny when they lie.
=========================
That’s a new tend in America. Facts are optional. If one “feels” that they had an easy schedule, then they had an easy schedule. Looking things up and being factually correct is no longer required.
At least until you start working and get fired for making $chitt up.
RSmith
lol
lamars
@AL34
The Red Sox got swept by a team that was undefeated at the time and are now 19-3. You honestly think Bloom had the final say on Bogaerts? The was all on ownership and not Bloom. It doesn’t matter who we bring in as GM if ownership wants to pinch pennies.
Fever Pitch Guy
lamar – And when Tampa was undefeated, which teams did they play to get that undefeated record?
I’ll help you …
Tigers (now 7-13)
Nats (now 7-14)
A’s (now 4-18)
There are SEVERAL teams that would have gone undefeated playing that same schedule.
lamars
Fever – TB did what they were supposed to do to beat lesser teams. The Red Sox lost the 4 game series and lost two close games 1-0 and 9-7. Plus they were the first team to score 11 runs against them only matched by Toronto’s 12 runs scored.
“There are SEVERAL teams that would have gone undefeated playing that same schedule.’
Really? the 7-13 Tigers took 2 of 3 vs the 12-10 Astros, the 7-14 Nats managed to beat the 14-8 Braves and the 4- 18 A’s managed to beat the 11-11 Guardians.
Since then the Red Sox have won 3 straight series going 7-3 in the process. Who were the teams they beat?
Angels 3 -1 (who were in first place, now 11-11)
Twins 2-1 (in first place at 10-6, still in 1st now 12-10)
Brewers 2-1 (Best record in the NL at 14-5, now 15-7, second best record behind the 16-7 Pirates.
The Red Sox may have been swept by the Rays but then they went out and took 3 series from 3 first place teams.
miltpappas
No love for Kutter Crawford? Since his first appearance, he has a 1.13 ERA. And he scored a run! He’s a duble threat!
JoeBrady
Too many people spent too long bashing Crawford to even acknowledge him now. Same with Winckowski. I’m not sayng they can’t revert, but it is surprising how little commentary these guys get when they are going well.
RSmith
True Joe, I wasnt a fan of Kutter, but now I see the light and the Fastball.
JoeBrady
From my amateur perspective, I like to look at good streaks for younger pitchers. From 4/23-8/2, he had 49.2 IPs, with a 50/11 K/W, 6 HRs, and a 2.90/3.39 ERA/FIP. It’s not a huge sample size, but it is usually indicative of some talent. If he had fatal flaws most opponents would find out before 50 IPs.
And even the haters should be rooting for a pitcher named Kutter.
lamars
The article is about the rotation and not how Crawford has been out of the bullpen.
JoeBrady
Crawford’s had two starts and has the best K/W on the team by a far margin. He deserves to be considered. He’s been so good out of the BP, I’d probably leave him as out #6, But I would definitely rank him ahead of Kluber at this point.
HBan22
This team is such a joke. And I’m a Sox fan. Or at least I was until Henry and Bloom decided to become the Oakland A’s.
Occams_hairbrush
Hyperbole is so fun.
utah cornelius
Boston is a .500 club. Oakland is at .190. Help me out, because I’m not seeing the comparison.
RSmith
Red Sox are secretly planning to move to Vegas.
HBan22
You guys know what I meant by that comment. Ownership won’t spend money anymore, for no real apparent reason. Allowing Xander to get away was the final straw for me. Comprende?
RSmith
Red Sox spent 211M last year thats more than 4 times what the A’s spent (48M). You know your opinion doesnt match up with reality, comprende?
HBan22
It’s not my OPINION that the owner and GM are cheapskates now. That’s a fact. Letting Bogaerts walk was unacceptable. There is a reason that two days after he signed with the Padres, Sox fans heckled the crap out of Henry. The Sox are not a small market team.
Also, I can’t believe how many people take things so literally. I was obviously exaggerating about them becoming the A’s. Just saying they are CHEAP now, because they are!
RSmith
“so literally”
Oakland has been a bottom dweller in payroll for as long as I can remember. They were so cheap they sold Joe Rudy and Rollie Fingers to the Red Sox! Henry on the other hand has been in the top 7 in payroll every year since he came here.
Im not taking you too ‘literally’ there has to be a little bit of truth for that to happen. Youre talking in complete fantasy land.
lamars
HBan
And you would be bitching and moaning if the RS gave Xander that ridiculous contract.
KD17
utah cornelius – I believe HBan22 wasn’t comparing winning percentages he was basically saying both suck. Considering where they were with DD and where they are now, he’s 100% right.
olmtiant
If I told any of you that our bullpen would be a strength ( without Tanner/ Garrett and my buddy still in it) which one you would have tightened the straps to my jacket… Crawford/ Jansen outstanding!!schribber/ blier solid… my buddy Brais top notch against best players!!! Ohtahni/ trout… it’s the rest of the bums that rake him!!
KD17
oimtiant – I think you had everyone until you used the words Brais and top notch in the same sentence. Remember, sample size is important as is history. Brais has sucked for years. A good game or two does not a career make!
RSmith
KD17:
Dont you have a rant about Devers’s Defense to do about now.
Heres a Terrible Defensive Play by Devers from yesterdays game. A good defensive 3B wouldnt have had to get his pants dirty.
mlb.com/video/victor-caratini-grounds-into-a-doubl…
Ace_
Jonathan Henry has around 2 billion reasons to move the Red Sox if Boston doesn’t build a new stadium for him.
RSmith
The city of Boston wont contribute a dime to a team building a new stadium. Maybe infrastruture of the roads around the park, that it. Boston doesnt succumb to blackmail, ask Robert Kraft. That is reserved for towns that have weak fanbases, like Miami.
Rsox
And that stadium is practically Rhode Island. The Sox are never leaving Boston and Henry would never be stupid enough to make that threat and not expect to live the rest of his life in hiding
RSmith
“practically Rhode Island” You mean Foxboro?
And Rhode Island gets “practically” zero of the income tax, sales tax, etc from their 18 mile distant vantage point to the stadium.
KD17
You are a couple of billion short on that estimate!!
RSmith
Great victory!!!
Red Sox take 2 out 3 from one of the best NL teams, on the road. This after taking 2 out 3 from Division Leader Minnesota, after taking 3 out of 4 from LA Angels (Angels were in first place, until they came to Boston).
If you still think this team “sucks”, I got news for yeah: Youre Wrong!
This is a gritty team that grinds out every AB. Defense is playing excellent too. Pitching is meh, but baby steps for now.
olmtiant
Agree r Smith!! For even baby steps is moving FORWARD!!!
RSmith
Is that all you got out of my post? Somebodies a simpleton.
olmtiant
Taught to keep it simple…
Rsox
Hopefully THIS is the Masataka Yoshida we can expect to see for the next several years. Turner looks a lot better at the dish too. There is a much better team here than people realize.
lamars
RSmith
And doing this without Duvall and shaking starting pitching from Sale and Kluber.
Bruin1012
The team doesn’t suck but they just aren’t as good as the big 3 in the AL East brutal division Baltimore isn’t too shabby either.
Bruin1012
Fever all I know is Bello has a true 96-97 mph bowling ball sinking fastball that gets pounded into the ground. He also has had a really good plus changeup a pretty good slider that flashes plus as well. He also has a high 90’s four seam fastball that plays up in the zone and is working on a curve ball. There is no one on the Red Sox staff that has his stuff except possibly Sale if he can revert to vintage Sale. This is why he should stay in the rotation and work through the growing pains.
all in the suit that you wear
Bruin: Agreed.
Moneyballer
If Houck’s next start is like his last start, he will have earned his rotation spot!
Nobby
After watching the three games against the Brewers, I’m starting to wonder if I’ve underestimated this Red Sox team. They seemed to have circled the wagons and played some decent baseball. Can they keep it up for an extended period of time or is it like last year when they fell apart? The jet is getting the SP to go at least six innings so the bullpen isn’t over worked. Chang has impressed at SS with his fielding and if he can hit .250, I’d be happy. I will continue to watch.
Cooperdooper7
All the complainers about the Red Sox, especially those who think it would be wise to trade Duran for a bag peanuts…. how is that looking for you now? The same people will be whining about Casas….. he will figure it out…. have some freaking patience.
Fever Pitch Guy
dooper – Well said! Dombrowski’s players tend to do well because he’s an expert when it comes to identifying talent. Personally I would love to see Duran play CF almost every day, with Kiké at 2B.
As for Casas, he needs to figure it out in AAA. He is a black hole at a position (1B) where offense should be well above average.
Cooperdooper7
FPG… I agree…I would play Turner at 1st base and send Casas down for a couple of weeks to work it out. DH Yoshida, and mix in Tapia/Reifsnyder platoon in LF.
RSmith
“Dombrowski’s players tend to do well because he’s an expert when it comes to identifying talent”
Are you saying these are good Drafts? Top 5 picks from 2016 to 2019:
2016
Jay Groom
CJ Chatham
Shaun Anderson
Bobby Dalbec
Mike Shawaryn
2017
Cole Brannen
Tanner Houck
Brett Netzer
Jake Thompson
Alex Scherff
2018
Triston Casas
Nick Decker
Durbin Feltman
Kolee Cottam
Thad Ward
2019
Cameron Cannon
Mathew Lugo
Ryan Zeferjahn
Noah Song
Jaxx Groshans
Bahahahahahah! Zero All-Stars. Not one 2.0 WAR player. Tanner Houck and 19 throw aways. That is a pathetic bunch using any metric. I think you’d have a tough time finding a different team with a worse group of draft picks from that period.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dooper – Sounds like a good plan to me. Casas’s confidence must be at an all-time low, he can rebuild it with AB’s in the minors.
KD17
FPG – Sample size is always so important. I agree with you and Cooper that Casas needs to go down. The problem is still defense. Devers kills you whether the score keeper counts the errors or not, Yoshida kills you and if you put JT in the field his risk of injury increases and we need his bat.
So I suggest using Dalbec at 1B and if he fails this time, DFA him after he gets a fair shake to prove himself. Remember, they are on a 74 win pace right now so this season is NOT a playoff season so giving Dalbec one last chance simply buys Casas time to get his act together.
We have MANY 10 year vets that have sucked for their first 10 years and when they do well everyone exaggerates their success. Kiki is hitting .232. When JBJ hit that badly we said replace him and he was a far better defender. When Dalbec hit that badly we sent him to AAA. When almost ANYONE else hit that badly they were DFA’d. Kiki is HOT and hitting .232. That’s why his lifetime average after 10 years is .239. He sucks.
Chang while playing well right now is another Kiki. 10 seasons in the MiLB and MLB and his career numbers are .248 but his MLB average is .208!!
Hot streaks are great but you can’t forget all the cold streaks. As of today, he’s hitting .146. That’s only 44 PAs but remember his lifetime number is .208. What is his real upside? Not good.
Every time the Red Sox have a small spurt of good play we think back to DD’s team and how they could turn it on and win a division. This team can’t do that. The AL East could put in 3 wild cards but Boston is going to be in 5th and that’s not good enough for the post season. If Sale dominates tonight the fans will start thinking playoffs and that’s unfortunate. I remember my first forty plus years thinking the same way and always being disappointed. We need talent. Chang, Kiki, McGuire are not MLB level talent. Yoshida, Devers and Turner can’t play defense but only ONE can be DH. Duran is an up and comer who needs to prove himself. Verdugo is a league average player who is going to want more than he’s worth when his arbitration years are over and Story won’t be back for months. If money is no object as suggested by the CAP violation in 2023, then to be a playoff team in 2023 Bloom needs to get replacements for Kiki, Chang and McGuire at a minimum. If he can deal, Yoshida and Turner for two way players that would allow Devers to move to DH and swapping out Devers and getting a good defending SS that can hit would significantly improve the team.
Every team that hopes for the playoffs needs a combination of star power and complimentary power with respect to the offense. Boston has Devers and maybe Turner as star power at hitting. They have complimentary power with Verdugo, Yoshida, Duvall and Story when he returns. The rest needs to be upgraded to compete in 2023. Otherwise, the young guys need a shot at the other spots like Duran and others from the farm system. As good as TB, NY, TOR and BAL are in 2023, Boston won’t be in the playoffs even if they maintain a .500 pace for the full season.
Occams_hairbrush
You know, at times I have thought you were a tad contrarian for the fun of it, but I can’t argue with a word of that other than I would give Casas another 50 ABs
JoeBrady
Duran’s numbers are less than the sum of the pieces. He has -0- HRs in 23 ABs with a 9/3 K/W. That’s terrible, his current OPS notwithstanding. A lot of our numbers will revert up and down as the season progresses.
Cooperdooper7
I could give a crap about Duran hitting HR’s…. get on base, use his legs not only to get in scoring position, but also to get weak hitting Chang batting behind him fastballs because of his speed threat…. it is much more than stupid just stats….I’ll take the Strike outs/Walks ratio as long as he continues to get hits with runners in scoring position with less than two outs…. which he is doing.. Also, his AB’s are a lot better than last year… seeing a lot more pitches.
RSmith
I agree with Coop. You want HRs out of your fastest guy. Should we also be concerned that Devers has zero SBs?
Fever Pitch Guy
Dooper – Great post!!
Only Joe could call a guy with a .565 SLG and .994 OPS “terrible” just because he doesn’t have a homerun yet. That’s because he zeroes in on the latest “in fashion” stats and totally disregards other facets of a guy’s game that are more important. The tunnel vision is sad.
RSmith
Joe, Why do you indulge FPG? The guys a dicck.
JoeBrady
Only Joe could call a guy with a .565 SLG and .994 OPS “terrible” just because he doesn’t have a homerun yet.
===========================
Because that’s how BB stats work. BABIP/HRs is always, always the baseline. There is virtually a -0- chance that Duran maintains a .563 BABIP. It is simply that you don’t know this.
He is on pace for 235 Ks in 600 ABs, and -0- HRs. Do you know how players survive that? -0-.
JoeBrady
His ignorance is a teachable moment, at least for those who are not True Believers. There is no shortage of people engaging in fantasy BB that will buy or sell players because they have no idea of what BABIP or HR/FB means.
RSmith
I love a good debate, but its the ‘never wrong’ attitude he has to keep. If you point something out to me, I’ll say “good point”. You’ll never get that from FPG or KD17. Thats why its a worthless debate, whether they’re right or wrong, they’re never wrong.
JoeBrady
It is sometimes worthwhile to me. The BABIP & HR stats are BB101, but there are other times where, if I have trouble explaining something, it forces me to dig deeper.
FWIW, I agreed with promoting Duran, and I hope I am wrong. But his current numbers are way, way overrated. It’s a small sample size, but I doubt anyone in history has ever survived a 32.1 K-rate with Duran’s lack of power. There were only 3 in BB last year that exceeded 30% and they had 25, 22 & 31 HRs.
RSmith
Small sample size, the Ks worry me.
But, any help right now is big. There are players on the mend (Story Mondesi) and we need to get to June in a decent state. Every game Duran helps is one day closer to reinforcements.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – Funny how you assume Duran’s 23 AB’s will project out ONLY on the negative stats, and NOT the positive ones. I have a feeling you are laughing as you typed that, just like I’m laughing while reading it!
And no I will never value BABIP as much as you do, even though I’m very familiar with it from reading this site. That’s because unlike you I understand BABIP can be inflated because the hitter either hits the ball too hard to be fielded or he’s able to hit ’em where they ain’t!
And at least get the math right! BR says he’s on pace for just 185 K’s in 552 AB’s.
BTW – After the same 23 AB’s Kiké was batting .115 with a .233 OBP, how is THAT “on pace” working out for ya???
RSmith
Red Sox are playing much better than their 11-10 record indicates, when you take into account the opponents they’ve played.
espn.com/mlb/stats/rpi