The United States advanced to the final of the World Baseball Classic after tonight’s 14-2 victory over Cuba, though the game saw prominent players from both teams make early exits. Nolan Arenado was hit in the right hand by an Elian Leyva pitch in the bottom of the fifth inning and was removed from the game. In the bottom of the sixth, Yoan Moncada tracked back from third base in pursuit of a Kyle Schwarber fly ball, but collided with left fielder Roel Santos (who made the catch).
Moncada is the more serious situation, as at the very least, the third baseman is day-to-day with a bruised rib, as the White Sox announced during the game. Afterwards, Cuba manager Armando Johnson told reporters (including ESPN’s Alden Gonzalez) after the game that Moncada had suffered a concussion, but USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweeted that Moncada was cleared after being treated for a possible concussion.
As for Arenado, x-rays were negative on his hand, and the Cardinals third baseman appeared to be in relatively good spirits in the dugout following the HBP. United States manager Mark DeRosa told ESPN’s Marly Rivera and other reporters postgame that Arenado “would have fought me on” staying in the game had the score not been so lopsided.
Injuries have been an ongoing storyline of the WBC, particularly Jose Altuve’s thumb fracture that will require surgery, or Edwin Diaz’s season-threatening right knee surgery. Losing Moncada and Arenado to significant injuries would’ve only added to the debate over the added risks posed by players’ participation in this high-intensity games, and yet naturally, risk is inevitable in any kind of competitive environment. Given the long list of injuries suffered by players in Spring Training (either in games or in workout drills) and the random nature of injuries in general, it is hard to say that players would’ve necessarily be safer in camp with their teams than playing in the WBC.
Given the uncertainty around Moncada, the White Sox will likely keep him sidelined for at least a few days to fully monitor his health. It’s possible this might be all Moncada needs to recover, but with Opening Day looming, the Sox will surely at least consider an injured-list placement to begin the season if Moncada’s rib problem is still lingering, or if any concussion symptoms surface.
Let me be the first to say the WBC is very fun and exciting to watch. All for it.
On the other hand, the timing of it is moronic. You’re asking all these players to play with WS intensity in March. This month is about getting ready for the long 162 game season, and slowly progressing and getting back into it. That’s what spring training is for.
I for one, would be very ticked off if my guys weren’t fully ready to go come April, because they were playing in a tournament that means nothing to my clubs goal of winning a championship.
Maybe the timing has more to do with wanting to take as much care of the pitchers arms as possible? Can’t be start/stopping throwing 100 mph competitively all the time; I’d imagine your ligaments and muscles need continuity. This is the most seamless strategy pertaining to pitcher health for sure; especially with the 65 pitch limit.
Would it be better to have it after the season when the players just played a full season? There is no great timing for it
There is no great timing for it
==============================
That’s really the conversation stopper right there. There is no perfect time. I think, for the players, the WBC is a part of spring training. Rather than being in FL or AZ, they are in wherever. Is someone that just played 162 games, plus maybe the playoffs, going to want to go on a one-month road trip? I doubt it.
But you want them to play this tournament now and be fully ready for the playoffs, after playing this and then the full 162 game season?
At the least the WBC should guarantee players mlb salaries for games they miss during the season thst their teams have to still pay them for
you know this is the wbc and the w stands for “world”, not the USA. Not everything goes around the USA.
Normally I’d agree but in regards WBC, MLB it would not exist without MLB and its players. So yes everything revolves around MLB as far WBC goes. And no time is good, but better now for the pitchers then after a full season on their arms. They are pitching minimal innings as they would in Spring Training as well.
It could definitely exist without MLB.
Not a chance in hell. Without MLB you’re looking at what’s essentially an amateur level tournament and nobody – in the USA or elsewhere – is going to want to either spend big $ or spend substantial time watching a tournament that is supposed to be the best of the best representing their respective nations when the athletes are third and fourth string caliber players. The WBC very simply could not exist without MLB’s participation and support.
@dugmet, there is absolutely no way it would b economically viable at its current scale or have a fraction of the appeal without MLB players
Alot of folks here are saying that “pride” is reason enough to have MLB teams risk their biggest investments in this exhibition tournament. So wouldn’t the minor leaguers that would play in it have pride also?
Or does pride only matter for MLB stars that play in it?
It did w sit without mlb
@Leaping, of course Minor Leaguers could and would have pride. They would not have the star appeal tho that makes the WBC viable.
Considering that most of the countries involved in the WBC would not have baseball without the US introducing it to them. So you are correct that not everything goes around the US, but you can’t really say that about baseball.
Well, related to this stupid argument I can make an even dumber one and state that the USA wouldn’t exist without countries travelling around the world so baseball is in the end a world sport and not an American one.
So is this exhibition tournament the World Series, then?
The players that choose not to represent here might be concerned about how they earn their living. Which is a contract for a team based in the US (and Toronto).
The REAL World Series has two teams with players of ALL NATIONALITIES that have proven themselves over a long season and the playoffs.
You’re correct….that argument was nonsensical. Pizza wouldn’t exist without Italy introducing it to us so Pizza Hut should have to pay Italy royalties lol. Probably not exactly analogous but about right in terms of how silly the initial argument was.
I never thought I would ever agree with you, but you are correct that you can make an even dumber one.
Never thought you would agree with me, personally? That’s a shame. You must enjoy being wrong frequently then lol
That wasn’t a reply to you, it was to Dbacks. Although the pizza thing didn’t make a lot of sense.
That’s a pretty silly statement given the reality that 99% of the top talent in the wbc are players who play professionally in the USA. In terms of the world baseball classic, the tournament and its participants are ENTIRELY contingent upon and subservient to the sport within the USA, specifically. To pretend otherwise is the epitome of arrogance and irrationality on your part.
Have the WBC shortly after the regular season using MLB players whose teams have been eliminated from postseason play. That way everyone gets a full spring training and plays no more than the world series teams do.
Screw it, let’s get crazy and just, just hear me out guys.
Annual WBC at the mid point of the MLB season. Maybe a three week pause and just chop out the middle of every teams schedule. Those who don’t play have a relaxed training of sorts to stay loose, have a little family time and gear up for the second half.
Good idea McGinty. In fact it likely would only need a two week break from the regular season and the meaningless All Star game could also be played during the break.
It would have to happen after the MLB Playoffs, since MLB obviously isn’t going to have the WBC compete with the playoffs for viewership and fan attention. It’d then affect early offseason business and shorten players off period before having to report for Spring Training.
I still say if the WBC is every 3 years do it during the all Star break. every 3rd year just extend the break longer (start season 1 week earlier). it’s more useful than the all Star game and would get more eyes on it. players not playing would get an extended absence which I’m sure they wouldn’t hate
It’s too cold to start the season in mid-March. That would also extend the season another week. The world series, would be played close to Thanksgiving. The most logical solution is don’t send the mlb players, and just let whoever else is available to fill the rosters.
The wbc takes longer than three weeks if you consider all the qualifying games teams have to play just to get into the tournament.
@Captain, all the players are playing somiamounts to Spring Training and pitchers have been limited to around 4 INNs. The workload has been on par with a typical spring. Going into Fall would b extra and especially burdensome on the pitchers.
With several months to recuperate though. Unlike the current timing.
So it’s like an exhibition game? Nothing to get pumped up about.
The WBC claims 2 more!
Spring training also features a significant number of injuries. It’s not the WBC that is causing the injuries.
@gbs42
One slight difference. Contract controlled players are duty bound to perform in team activities. If injuries happen there it is because they are obliged to play in the team controlled environment.
Players volunteer to play in the WBC and have to ask permission to do so. If a player want to play in the WC, that’s fine. They must also recognize it is an activity not controlled by those that contract with them.
The solution is simple, if they want to play, go for it, but understand, if you’re injured when the season starts your paycheque will be deducted from until they are removed from the IL.
Dollars and sense.
THIS!
Every MLB player in the WBC has MLB-funded insurance to cover their salary if they miss time.
Players don’t ask permission to play in the WBC per se.
Teams can only bar players participation if the player has a pre-existing injury they are rehabbing from or the WBC is unable to acquire insurance on a player.
Otherwise its 100% up to the players.
The players activity is strictly controlled. Pitch count, pitching schedule, innings played, plate appearances. The MLB team controls all of that throughout the WBC.
The broadcasters have talked about that fact and team managers have talked about that in interviews.
Teams lose no money if a player is injured in the WBC because players are not allowed to play unless the WBC can get insurance to cover both their salary and the cost of treatment in the case of injury.
Your angst is misplaced because you failed to get educated about the system in place.
All players involved are insurance by WBC. Diaz contract will not be paid by the Mets until he is ready to play (still a big hit to the team).
It is a very fun tournament played every 4 years, MLB can make some adjustments to make it work and have the best players represent their countries.
Would’ve put my money on Eloy to be the Sox player injured in WBC but still not surprised that we lose a player during this meaningless tournament.
Moncada will be fine. It’s not like the Sox season was hinging on him anyway.
Remember when he was the second coming of Rogers Hornsby?
Lol, yeah Moncada was supposed to be a game changer. Good move by the Bosox.
Of course the W Sox have the great Jake Burger to beef their chances.
And b/c of the Moncada trade, they’re stuck with the terrible Sale contract that they were dumb enough to extend.
Sale helped Boston win a World Series, so I’d say they’re still the winners of that trade, despite Sale’s inability to stay healthy since the extension.
I think cheating actually helped Boston win that WS. Mookie, JD, Benni, JBJ all had career years that they haven’t replicated since. And still, even after cheating, they extended Sale. They should have just thanked him after cheating, then let him walk in FA.
Yeah, Im sure there are those that said that about Moncada the last two seasons…
Spring training also features a significant number of injuries. It’s not the WBC that is causing the injuries.
Things like being hit by a pitch is not something that can be prevented. The chance of colliding with another fielder that you haven’t played with on a flyball can be minimized if the players practice together.
Going full tilt after only 2-3 weeks of Spring Training is going to present a major problem if this tournament continues. Maybe the American players participating need to report to a central practice site 2-3 weeks before ST begins. Am also wondering if the teams they play for are practicing together for a week or two to get to know one another and get used to the way their teammates approach situations.
Next up is how much time do the players participating have to get back to their ML teams and play with their teammates to coordinate playing with one another before the season starts.
–
This would be a great event if the players were playing as if it were an exhibition. Instead it’s as intense as a post-season playoff series.
The players who collided would not have practiced together as they were on opposing teams. A collision such as that could have just as easily happened at spring training. Same with being hit in the hand by a pitch, not one of these injuries has been the result of playing at a higher intensity opposed to Spring Training.
Tigers3232;
Tell you what…..
I don’t really care.
The NBA, NHL and NBA have All-Star games. The games are played in-season or post-season. It’s for the fans to enjoy seeing the best of the best play one game together. The players intensity goes in spurts, but it’s an exhibition and very seldom – if ever – are players hurt (the NFL is currently reworking game rules to assure safety).
This is a pre-season tournament in which “pride” is at stake. MLB players from all countries are going all out when most haven’t really been in competition for 3-4 months (maybe a few play winter ball).
Here’s what’s going to happen…..
A star player from a small/mid-market team is going to be injured like Diaz was – out for the season (maybe ruin his career while sitting on a long-term expensive contract). While money comes in from the insurance, the team has to go out and find another player to replace him if they’re contending that season. In this case the Mets will take on a large salary during the season with a one-sided salary-dump trade. But the problem with a small/mid-market team is that if one of their players is injured and needs to be replaced during the season they’ll be looking for a star player available in trade that’s being paid a reasonable salary. That’s not going to be easy to find, and if one is available it will cost the team multiple quality prospects – meaning they may well be paying for that injury for years.
I’m not saying this is easy for the Mets (or any large market team). A salary-dump trade could well cost them a quality prospect. But because they’ll be taking on a large salary the prospect cost will be less.
In short, I look for small and mid-market teams to pretty much sit down with their players and explain that national pride aside, they need to understand that their involvement in a tournament like this can set the ML team back quite a bit for years. And if a player insists on still gong, he may find himself traded beforehand – which is the only thing a small/midmarket teams can do to protect themselves.
I actually don’t care if players play in the WBC or not. BUT, if I’m an owner, paying a guy hundreds of millions of dollars. There WILL be a clause in his contract stating that if he is hurt playing in the WBC, his contract is forfeit until he returns to 100%.I’m not paying for his care, nor his rehab. I’m not paying guys to go play backyard baseball for pride or any other stupid thing.
Nothing you said will ever happen Samuel. The players absolutely love this tournament. MLB, meaning the team owners, have made it clear that while players are not required to play, that the only reason that a team can say no is a pre-existing injury or the inability for the WBC to acquire insurance for the player.
Players are getting hurt at a higher rate in spring training than they are in this tournament. So should the owners want to stop having spring training?
The purpose of this tournament is to grow the game around the world AND in the US. Its working. The viewership outside the US is way up for this year’s event. In 3 countries at least one WBC game involving their county has been the highest viewed event this century. The few games played in Miami have drawn more fans than the Marlins did in the first 60 home games.
THAT is what matters. THAT is why none of your novel length post matters.
BaseballisLife;
Everything I wrote will happen……will happen. You’re naïve if you think it won’t.
Check out the NYC papers that have comment sections and see what Mets fans are writing about losing Diaz for the season and possibly for the rest of his career.
Sorry, I couldn’t read any more of your “novel”.
You are delusional. The very owners you think will cancel the WBC are the ones that created it.
It doesn’t matter what other delusional Mets fans are saying. What matters is what the players and owners are saying and what the TV ratings and attendance are saying.
Real fans love the WBC and are watching and showing up in greater numbers than ever before.
Injuries are lower as a percentage than they are in spring training.
The owners are raking in millions from the tournament and interest around the world is exploding. Which is exactly the reasons for the tournament.
You keep writing novels that are full of BS. No matter how many times you try to say it, you will still be wrong. The facts that matter are against you.
The arguments I see back and fortieth about this are stupid?
And Mark Mulder tore his Achilles tendon in a comeback attempt in a spring training warm up effectively ending his career and yet everyone still risks warming up?
Let the ballers ball, criers and whinners because boo hoo my team this or that can go home and cry in a dark closet
With that thinking then the ST games SHOULD count, right?
This way you could easily squeeze in the 162 and have this exhibition tournament in October.
Hippyripper;
Your argument is that people are hit by cars every day, so no one should ever walk across a street.
Time to be adult here.
Samuel:
YES players from other Countries play for pride, some from the US also play for pride.
I as an American am prideful.
MLB wants this tournament to occur.
Manfred wants the game to grow.
Inherent risk are part of the game.
ST, WARM-UP, taking BP, fielding ground balls. Could all cause injury.
Enjoy Baseball, all forms and yes bemoan an injury but remember, injuries will happen, on the field or tripping of a child’s Legos.
AND…….asking players who would be stretching and playing a few innings for the team they are CONTRACTED to play for is quite different than these EXHIBITION games where they go all out. Diaz would NOT have celebrated a Spring Training win.
That’s right Samuel. Try being an adult for a change.
devastating news for the team to be aiming for 4th place. 12 hr 51 rbi 626 ops moncada.
white sox fans – can the rest of the team be in the world baseball thing?
I don’t think they’ll miss him. aaa player might be an upgrade.
Moncada had a couple of down seasons in part due to COVID and it’s lingering effects. He also has his family on his mind since he can’t get them out of Cuba. Still, his offense started coming back at the end of last year and he tore up the tournament after starting 0-8. And he’s one of the top defensive 3b in the game.
Did COVID’s effects finally stop and he got his family out of Cuba? The excuses you make avengers haven’t changed
Avenger, Moncada stands like a statue at 3B, whenever the temp is below 65. And you probably feel he’s worth the $40M the Sox are paying him over the next two years?
I don’t understand how any MLB franchise is OK with any player under contract participating in this meaningless tournament.
Because they’re growing their market. It’s all about money. Children understand this and the MLB is a for profit business
Sure let’s cancel spring training and the regular season too. The playoffs are the only games that actually matter anyway right? God forbid our precious boys get hurt.
I think there will be a re-evaluation, after this tournament is over. I would be surprised if most, or all mlb organizations, don’t prohibit their players from participating in the future.
Spring training also features a significant number of injuries. It’s not the WBC that is causing the injuries.
So Altuve and Diaz were hurt sneezing?
they were hurt playing baseball, which they would have been doing in spring camp anyways.
Diaz wouldn’t have been jumping up and down about a ST victory nor would the team. Nice try.
LESS players have been hurt per game in the WBC than spring training. Fewer. A lower percentage. Not as many. Its been safe for players than spring training.
You get it now?
Or so you say. Keep thinking that. Tell it to the fanbases of the STARS that have been hurt.
Saratoga, for being 96 years old, you’re pretty spry yet with the “wow’s”.
The problem with the WBC is that it involves a lot of non-MLB ready players who are more likely to throw wild pitches or make mistakes in the field. I know Altuve got hit by Bard who is a major league pitcher but for the most part, these MLB players should not be playing against minor leaguers right now who obviously show signs of control issues
Who do you think they would be playing against in spring training? Most of the players in the tournament are MLB players. Do you ever make a comment that makes even a little bit of sense or are they always that nonsensical?
@BaseballisLife The WBC is a completely differeny atmosphere over spring training. WBC makes players want to give it there all, Spring Training games mean nothing and these players know that. When the stakes are higher, these athletes who are not MLB ready make more mistakes, its just common sense
Yes. Diaz would not have celebrated a Spring Training win like that. It wasn’t even a championship game.
There have been less injuries per game played in the WBC than in spring training.
By your type of “common sense” maybe we should stop having spring training and just have the WBC every year to help them get ready.
OR move the EXHIBITION TOURNAMENT to Thanksgiving.
Then have worn out players in it so they really can get hurt at a higher rate? Are you f’ing kidding me?
During spring training is the perfect time. These players are being kept on their spring training schedule all throughout the tournament so they are getting ready for the season in the same way they would in camp but they get to have fun while they are doing it.
“Spring training schedule”? wtf? Jumping up and down like you just won the World Series (and not a mere EXHIBITION game) happens in Spring Training? Please provide examples. If he had closed a ST game he would have shook hands and headed off the field.
What do you think ST is for? Most pitchers are working on their own pitch execution and batters on mechanics and timing. Their focus isn’t purely on results. How many minor leaguers are in big league camp right now? How many split squad games with a mix of both MLB and MiLB players have been played already in the history of ST? It’s not your first season watching baseball, is it?
IF they’re even a minor leaguer, and not some gas station attendant from Timbuctoo.
The collision was scary. He was not moving as at first. We got to see several replays in the park. I understand that they didn’t show any on TV. It was scarier than the HBP.
Arenado told D-ro that he didn’t need to come out of the game but it was already a blow out so no way he was going to keep playing before an x-ray and thorough exam.
I’ve been saying this a lot recently… stop allowing your players that YOU PAY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO, to participate in the WBC.
Spring training also features a significant number of injuries. It’s not the WBC that is causing the injuries.
The WBC has turned into the movie Final Destination.
Baseball players get hurt playing baseball. The anti WBC arguments are absolutely painful. Why not cancel spring training and the regular season since our million dollar babies are so fragile and the playoffs are the only actual “meaningful games”?
It probably wouldn’t take long for someone with more energy than me, to add up the number in WBC injuries versus the number of ST injuries.
Joe, because of the small sample size, the error bars would be significant.
They already did. MLB Network had a segment on it. There have been less injuries per game in the WBC than in spring training.
DanUgglasRing;
Spring Training is supposed to be a time for players to gear up for the regular season after not playing competitive baseball for 3-4 months. I’ve written (for years here) that I don’t understand the ST injuries where a player throws too hard, swings too hard, or dives for a ball – and injures himself.
Children see things in black and white (i.e. Absolutes). Adults see them in shades of gray. Successful adults are good at interpreting those shades of gray and making good decisions before taking actions.
Allowing star players that often are under an expensive long-term contract to play in an intense / competitive tournament when they’re not in in-season shape, nor are used to playing with their teammates, is going to mean that some players are going to suffer degrees of injuries. And the probability of those injuries are far higher then their playing in-season when all are in shape with their muscles limber and timing down.
The bottem line……
The story line of this years WBC is this: Who got injured and how will it affect their MLB teams? It’s not who won.
Do you like good baseball as opposed to bad baseball?
Should baseball players play bad or worse baseball in lieu of playing good baseball because it is somehow arbitrarily “safer”?
Children see things in black and white? Children also have a lot more fun than boring old men.
You seem to mention “children’ in every post.
Are you obsessed, sir?
“Boring old men” says Mr Excitement constantly mentioning children.
DanUgglasRing;
Players going full bore when they’re not in shape to is not good baseball.
Anymore than pitchers throwing their arms, shoulders, forearms, wrists out by going full bore and having surgeries is not good baseball.
Children have more fun because someone else is looking out to protect their downside. Adults have slipped though the crack numerous times and had to pay the price. They realize that life is not all fun. You might say we had to grow up. If you want to watch children having fun playing baseball go to a school or little league game. I do.
We’re talking professionals that in American baseball players cases are often under outrageously expensive long-term contracts. The ones that say “it’s a business” every time they have their agents negotiate a contract and leave a city and its team to go elsewhere.
They can’t have it both ways – but it sure seems that many players and fans want to.
@ Lenny:
Read what I’m replying to, genius. Every time I mention children it’s because some bozo infers that I’m being childish and literally used the very word in the comment I’m responding to.
Samuel. Stop seeing things in black and white, especially when you are wrong.
There have been less injuries to MLB and MiLB players per game in the WBC than there have been in spring training. This year and in all WBC tournaments combined.
Everything thing you have said is garbage based on that one fact.
Let’s do these guys one better, if Shohei gets hurt in April playing some trash game against the Pirates or Nats, A’s, etc. should we consider benching stars against bad teams because the games are “meaningless”? How far are you willing to take this before you contradict yourselves, exactly?
Pretend this is just an All Star game, and the players are allowed to switch leagues if they played for a franchise in the other league. That better explains what happened.
The pessimist in me says Moncada just found his excuse for underperforming this season. 2020: I got Covid
2021: And long-Covid
2022: Family issues and boo-boos
2023: You remember I got hurt in the WBC, right?
I wish Burger could play even half-decent defense at 3B. Maybe Montgomery can take some reps there.
Don’t these nations have television? Can’t they watch the big stars from their country DOING THEIR JOBS -the jobs that MADE them stars during the LONG MLB season?
And are the big MLB stars the only ones that have pride in their country? I bet you could find tons of minor leaguers from these nations with that same pride.
I don’t think you understand the point of the WBC. It’s about growing interest in baseball around the world. You’re not going to do that by sending minor leaguers out there. As for watching players from your country, some people do, but it’s a lot easier to care when the entire team is your fellow countrymen, not one guy on one team in a league you don’t generally follow. I don’t like all the injuries, but some of them have been freak accidents that could’ve happened anywhere. I think the timing could be different, maybe in Jan – early Feb so these guys have some recovery time, but I think it’s worth it overall.
Here we go, who has the Moncada Injury pool started?
He will probably milk this injury until about June. Good thing Burger looks acceptable at third right now.