The Red Sox’ rotation will likely be down several starters to begin the season, as MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo writes that each of Garrett Whitlock, Brayan Bello and James Paxton are expected to begin the season on the injured list. Paxton had already been trending in this direction, but Whitlock and Bello now join him in missing at least the beginning of the 2023 season. Cotillo notes that Whitlock, who got a late start while recovering from hip surgery is expected to be ready sometime in mid-April. Bello, who battled forearm tightness early in camp, should follow shortly thereafter. Paxton isn’t expected to return until May at the earliest.
The Red Sox announced this week that offseason signee Corey Kluber would get the nod on Opening Day. Left-hander Chris Sale, eyeing for a rebound campaign after a dreadful run of injuries in recent seasons, is slated to start the second game of the season. Righties Nick Pivetta, Tanner Houck and likely Kutter Crawford should round out the quintet to begin the year.
With Whitlock and Bello both expected to return by the end of the season’s first month, though, the rotation will likely be reconfigured early in the regular season. Crawford, who struggled to a 5.47 ERA in 77 2/3 frames last season, figures to be the odd man out once either Whitlock or Bello is able to reclaim a spot in the starting staff. In that case, Crawford would figure to serve as optionable rotation depth alongside Josh Winckowski.
Assuming everyone remains healthy by the time both Whitlock and Bello are ready to return, the Sox will be faced with a decision between Houck and Pivetta for the final rotation spot. Pivetta made a league-leading 33 starts last season and paced the team with 179 2/3 innings pitched. That impressive volume came with mediocre results, however, as the right-hander posted a slightly below-average 4.56 ERA during the 2022 campaign.
Houck, meanwhile, has been a successful pitcher both as a starter (3.22 ERA in 92 1/3 innings) and a reliever (2.68 ERA in 53 2/3 innings) to this point in his career. The former first-rounder has long been seen as a potential rotation piece at Fenway, but the Red Sox were noncommittal early in the offseason when asked about his role. Houck also had back surgery late last season and ended the year on the injured list after making 28 of his 32 appearances as a reliever. It’s easy to see why the Sox would be intrigued by the idea of Houck upping his workload this year and even getting some more run in the starting staff, but he’s coming off a 60-inning season that ended in back surgery; a jump to a full starter’s workload would be something of a surprise.
Of course, this needn’t be a strict either-or proposition. Situations like this tend to work themselves out, often as injuries pop up elsewhere on a pitching staff. Getting Houck some early rotation work and perhaps moving him to a multi-inning relief/sixth starter role once everyone is healthy would be a good means of managing his workload as he ramps up from last year’s 60 innings.
Even if the plan is to ride Houck as a starter as long as possible, that doesn’t mean Pivetta will be decidedly forced out of the rotation. Given that each of Sale, Whitlock, Bello, Houck, Kluber and especially Paxton have some notable injuries within the past few seasons, it’s likely the Sox will need to shuffle through quite a few starters. All six of their top options figure to spend ample time in the rotation this summer, and they’ll also have depth options like Crawford, Winckowski, Brandon Walter, Chris Murphy and Bryan Mata as candidates for rotation work down in the minors.
Wow!
Man I thought I didn’t have a life and commented too much around here and then I saw you & felt a little better.
We should hang out!
The last time he got the opening day nod, he pitched a scoreless inning. Just don’t ask what happened afterwards. I hope he has better luck.
I see it as a kick in the nuts to Sale.
Usually you have your opening day starter be the ace of the team, the guy who has put in time and is something of a leader.
I just don’t see kluber as that guy. His upside is less than sale, he has no record with the club yet having just come aboard,
To me that says something about what regard Cora and company hold sale in, and it’s not what should be expected.
it might be something along the lines of what dave duncan said about c. carp, “until he goes out and shows us he can be a starter and right now we’re not counting him as a starter”. when he said that cc was coming off 2 seasons on and off the il and couldn’t rely on him to handle a starters workload. hopefully sale has cc luck and is able to go out and pitch healthy at a cy young level, but until he can show he can do it you can’t consider him an ace.
When returning from major injury, many top pitchers were skipped over for opening day. This is done to avoid adrenaline kicking in too fast and causing another injury.
Its just typical Red Sox hater hyperbole to call it a ‘kick in the nuts’. Oh no, the sky’s falling in Boston.
rsmith11 hours ago
When returning from major injury, many top pitchers were skipped over for opening day. This is done to avoid adrenaline kicking in too fast and causing another injury.
============================
Yup, I am pretty sure that Cora basically said the same thing. There is no reason to double up on the pressure of OD with the pressure of long-awaited return.
Joe – You really think there’d be pressure on a veteran who has started All-Star Games and postseason games?
You might be mistaking intensity for pressure.
GASox – Last year I read a couple articles how the team has kinda stepped away from Sale by not covering for him anymore. I do think this Opening Day decision could be a reflection of their souring relationship, however I’d like to hear Cora directly asked why Sale isn’t getting the nod.
We know it’s not a lefty-righty thing, as every other projected starting pitcher is RH.
We know it’s not a road-home thing, as the season opener is also at Fenway.
Has anybody heard an explanation directly from Cora?
I don’t either he’s pushing 40 and has always been average at best…tho him being the opening day starter is almost perfect symbolism of how this season will go in Boston…a team of old washed up has beens who should be sitting in a retirement home.
The haters trying to drum up controversy where there is none. Chris Sale is fine with not being the OD starter.
audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/why-chris-sale-appr…
You actually think a pitcher would publicly complain about not starting opening day ahahaha do you still write letters to santa too
“I appreciated him having my back and thinking of me outside of the realm of baseball. He was thinking of me as a person right there. Which, that’s who AC is, that’s why players love him, that’s why he is who he is. All of that as a whole, I really appreciate that.”
Sale has a reputation for speaking his mind. And this isn’t some kid looking for respect.
Coming from a guy who smashed a minor league clubhouse and publicly apologized, I do. Chris Sale has even blamed himself for not pitching the past years for us due to his injuries.
A player publicly complimenting and supporting his manager WOW I’ve never seen that before
After reading that article it makes me wonder about both Sale and Cora. Sale because if he’s happy sitting on his ass on opening day rather than competing that speaks volumes. And Cora not going with his best pitcher to start the season once again shows his lack of understanding that every game counts.
This is a much ado about nothing. I think it was before a spring training game I watched that Cora said this was decided before spring training started that Sale wasn’t going to start opening day. What he said they didn’t want him thinking about that and just made the decision early on. It sounds like Sale was totally fine with it and frankly who gives a rats if he pitches opening day or the next day. He just needs to stay healthy.
@ Bruin – You are 100% correct. This is a smart move by Cora. Anyone who knows Chris Sale knows that he’s one of the most competitive players in the game and no one puts more pressure on Chris Sale than Chris Sale himself. Sale is already going to be super intense in his first start, why put the added pressure on him to start opening day? If things go according to plan, Sale will be the ace of this team but that depends on health. I fully expect Cora to bring Sale along slowly, pulling him after 80-85 pitches even if he’s doing well. The Sox will only go as far as Chris Sale does this year so they need to protect him from himself until he finally gets back to full strength and full confidence.
Even the 2012 Bobby Valentine-led Sox had Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz. And they went 69-93.
they also had a complete head case of a manager thanks in large part to Larry Lucchino
acel – You really shouldn’t make up things when there’s plenty of sources that prove you’re completely wrong.
Cherington loved Bobby V.
Cherington recommended Bobby V to ownership.
Ownership, consisting of Larry/John/Tom, unanimously agreed to hire Bobby V.
nytimes.com/2011/12/02/sports/baseball/red-sox-fro…
During the news conference, Cherington said that after meeting Valentine and then interviewing him, he was so impressed that he in turn recommended him to Lucchino and his fellow owners, John Henry and Tom Werner.
“We made a decision, I made the decision on Monday to recommend that we offer the job to Bobby,” Cherington said.
I see you’re at it again. This is either one of the worst troll jobs on this message board or your reading comprehension has somehow gotten even worse. I didn’t say anything that was completely wrong.
From your own article that you sited
“But on Thursday, Lucchino acknowledged that he was always looking for someone like Valentine. For better or worse, there is no one like Valentine.”
“‘“I was, personally,” Lucchino said. “That’s what I was looking for.”’
And here’s another source
“”I and John Henry, wanted the list of possibilities to include
Bobby — and made that suggestion to Ben that we interview him and talk to him
and see if there was a fit for him,” Lucchino told NESN.com and three
other outlets in a private suite.”
nesn.com/2012/10/larry-lucchino-accepts-responsibi…
Clearly Valentine was a Lucchino guy.
Saying Cherrington loved Bobby V (a guy he had beef with during his brief time in Boston AND fired him after one year) is one of the most laughable things you’ve said and that’s saying something considering the vast amounts of nonsense you’ve said and self owns you’ve had
acel – Why must you always fill your responses with unwarranted personal attacks?
If you think someone is wrong, say they are wrong and explain why. No need for the gratuitous insults.
In your initial post you mentioned ONLY Lucky as the reason for Bobby’s hiring. Fact is he was one of FOUR men who wanted to hire Bobby.
Also a fact, which you even included in your most recent post, is that BOTH Lucky AND John Henry told Ben to bring in Bobby for an interview.
So either “blame” all four men, or “blame” just Lucky and John Henry.
But you can’t blame just Lucky. The way you did implies you dislike him and were just looking for a concocted excuse to take a shot at him.
Be better than that, man.
“But on Thursday, Lucchino acknowledged that he was always looking for someone like Valentine. For better or worse, there is no one like Valentine.”
================================
For once, I agree with LL. I have never in my life seen anything like Valentine. I’ve never seen a worse manager.
your ability to twist things never ceases to amaze. I can play you game too. I wasn’t insulting you merely pointing out that your reading comprehension has someone gotten worse or that you were trolling. It was just a statement of fact. same with your self owns from before.
I guess I didn’t realize that someone like you would be overly sensitive to the point where they would be giving lectures to others (who they have insulted time again) on how to be more civil. You can keep ascribing your world view to avoid admitting you’re wrong (or just pull your disappearing act again when you know you’ve been proven wrong again.
If you go back to my initial post (which I’m sure you’ll ignore this point anyway) I said Lucchino was largely to blame. He said as much in the article I provided. if it makes your feel better I can include Henry as well.
Joe: it’s odd to see such a full throated defense of a guy in Lucchino that people largely disliked for very justifiable reasons.
LL probably had some attributes, but imvho, he suffered from delusions of grandeur. I think he felt like he should’ve gotten more credit than Theo & Tito, and that is what led to them leaving. He got involved in the Lester negotiations to show the kids “how this worked old school”. Then offered Lester 50% of his value, thinking they’d meet in the middle.
And then hired Valentine because LL would get credit for making the move.
I think he was involved in other facets, such as stadium improvements, And that was important. But he couldn’t resist involving himself in the BB operations.
Joe – Many years before you, there were Red Sox managers named Joe Kerrigan, Grady Little, Don Zimmer and Jimy Williams.
MLB goes back a lot further than 2004! LOL!
Joe – Yes, including Henry makes me feel better because I am always a proponent of the truth.
Me sensitive? No, you must be mixing me up with Pedey. I have never even considered muting you, and I fully expect abuse whenever I respond to your posts … and yet I still respond, how ’bout that!
Joe – Sounds like you need a refresher on Lucky’s resume:
4-Time WS Champion Executive
SuperBowl Champion Executive
Red Sox Hall of Fame
Padres Hall of Fame
Mentored Theo Epstein
Trendsetter by building the first old-fashioned baseball-only stadium
Only person with WS rings, SuperBowl ring and Final Four watch
Chairman of the Jimmy Fund
And a cancer survivor
Sorry if you’re still butt-hurt that Theo failed at his attempt to overthrow his mentor.
If you think my responses are abuse or abusive then you’re clearly a sensitive human. It’s just funny that you keep trying to play the victim when you’re equally acrimonious in almost all of your posts.
You’re hardly a proponent of the truth…that’s probably the funniest thing you’ve said. You’ve been proven a liar plenty of times you just don’t want to acknowledge it.
You really can’t claim a moral high ground when you still insist that Joe and I are the same person. You’re obviously doing that to push buttons even though it’s not working.
If you just admitted you were wrong without the sanctimony or sensitivity you probably wouldn’t view what I’m saying as abusive.
Joe – Show me where I said abusive, I never did.
This is supposed to be a place where fellow baseball fans get together and talk baseball for fun, not talk about other fans.
Look how many times “you” is in your post, that’s an unhealthy obsession.
Bobby Valentine managed the Red Sox because four Red Sox executives wanted him, take the “L” and move on..
I used the word you because I was addressing you in particular.
You used abuse as a noun. I just used the adjective they mean the same thing. It’s really not that complicated.
And stop with the sanctimony especially when all you come after people all the time.
There’s not L to take. I said Lucchino was largely responsible. I even conceded that Henry was involved too. the only person who needs to take an L is you (oh no there’s that word again that you literally used almost as much as I did in responding to my post).
Go and disappear again FPG like you do instead of admitting fault or before you do another self own. I provided the evidence to prove my point.
Points for hilarity your way for doubling down on the gaslighting though
Fever Pitch Guy
Sorry if you’re still butt-hurt that Theo failed at his attempt to overthrow his mentor.
=============================
To compare LL with Theo is a joke. Theo is a first-ballot HOF. Larry will have to buy a ticket.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – Show me where I said abusive,
===========================
I never said you were abusive?
Joe: he still thinks you and I are the same person or just doing the world’s worst troll job. Usually he does that, gets called out and then disappears.
Actually, he also now thinks I am the same poster as Fuolofvit. I think he just doesn’t like the sheer number of people that tell him he is wrong,.
I’m shocked. SHOCKED! That Paxton is injured
Im SHOCKED that Chris Sale is healthy.
It’s only march…give it time. Hope he can get through the season though.
Since Sale won’t be starting opening day he should relax and ride his bike to the park…oh wait
People have skewed memories of this disaster. If only they would’ve let him go. I like Sale, the trade was massively successful, the extension a foreseeable travesty.
I liked the trade, but writing was on the wall. Only pitched 17 innings late in his last season before signing extention, and mph was way down at the end of the season.
I’d have extended him as well. Even knowing what I know now, I’m still not appalled by the contract. The first thing I am now sure abut the diagnosis. Had he had surgery after 2018, instead of March, 2019, we’d have only lost about a year, instead of a year and four months. And the finger is just part of BB.
In an era where 40 year old aces are getting paid $40M+, I would actually monitor his health to see if we could extend him 1-2 years.
I wouldn’t have extended him. I know hindsight is 20/20 but he was always a bit fragile even before his Tommy John surgery. If I remember correctly there were concerns about his mechanics leading to injuries which proved to be true.
I’m also not a huge fan of some of his antics (smashing the TVs etc) at a rehab start. He’s incredibly talented but still had some red flags.
correction: he had a tendency to fade down the stretch as well too
The trade was a good move by DD. The extension was terrible.
I think there may have been a wink wink nod nod on the contract before the playoffs. Otherwise theres no way you give a 145M (with 2 opt outs) to a guy who pitched 17 innings from August to the end of the season, and radar guns were telling you theres 5mph missing off his fastball in Oct. Multiple articles were being written questioning his health at the time. — Theres no other excuse for that deal.
Sale in 2018:
-5 MPH missing off fastball at the end of the season.
-Only 17 innings from Aug 1st til end of season.
-Not one start in the playoffs more than 5 innings.
-Outlets all over the place questioning his health.
6-11, 4.40 ERA 147 innings in 2019, clearly he was pitching injuried. Waiting a year was a case of putting off the inevitable, not a sign he was healthy.
Real durable rotation there Chaim! You know you’re doing a great job when 60% of your rotation begins the season on the injured list!
I’m SO MAD ON MLBTRADERUMORS.COM that Chaim Bloom personally went and did this!!!
That he put together a rotation built from injury-prone starters? No you’re right, we should all be glad to have a well-built rotation such as this. We’re well positioned to compete with the other good teams in our division. Broken down starters are exactly what we need!
Whitlock is on track to miss 1 or 2 starts and Bello will miss 2 or 3 in a month with a relatively easy schedule??? SELL THE TEAM ITS TIME TO REBUILD
Mango – You’re forcing me to defend Bloom, ugh! LOL!!!
Paxton is the only injury-prone Bloom Blunder.
Bloom inherited Sale, who couldn’t be traded because of all the injuries.
Bloom inherited Bello, and this is his first injury.
Bloom inherited Houck, also coming off his first injury.
Nobody is complaining about Whitlock, who is also coming off his first injury.
And have you looked around the ST camps recently?
Look at the Yankee rotation … Rodon, Cortes, Montas all dealing with injuries … and how long will Severino stay healthy?
There’s plenty of things Bloom has done wrong, but the injuries to the starting rotation shouldn’t be on him (except for Paxton).
There’s plenty of things Cashman has done wrong, but the injuries to the starting rotation shouldn’t be on him (except for trading for Montas last year).
What about Rodon? He’s never had 30 starts until last year. Lots of teams avoided him due to health questions.
Now, he injured and the Yankees are on the hook for 6 years. This is not the way you want to start out.
Whitlock is on track to miss 1 or 2 starts and Bello will miss 2 or 3 in a month with a relatively easy schedule???
====================
Yup. It’s the time of the year that the snowflakes are melting. Missing a week or two from Whitlock, Bello, and Paxton is a nothing-burger. This is still a very thin team, but as long as these injuries are brief, they shouldn’t have much impact. Every teams has some nicks.
Sale made $90 million from 2020 to 2022 and has started 11 games in that period. As a baseball fan you want to see a player of his caliber on the field but at this rate that “Brian Cashman level” contract is aging like milk
Thankfully the GM that signed Sale, AFTER he was already injured, is long gone.
And he still wasn’t as bad as Brian Cashman has been oof
Craven – Of course you’re right about 2020-2022, but Sale is a guy who can have a very strong rebound season this year. He’s been looking great in ST, and by that I don’t mean just results which I know are meaningless.
We’ll see Fever Pitch. People forget he has the highest career strike outs per 9 in mlb history
You’re forcing me to defend Fever, ugh! LOL!!!
J/K, but a lot of people forget that Sale is one of the best pitchers in history.
In his prime, he was every bit as good as Scherzer, Verlander & DeGrom. And Sale’s injury profile is about the same as Verlander & DeGrom. I wouldn’t be aall surprised if Sale was an AS this year.
Joe – You’re using humor, I like it!!! Thumbs up just for that.
The rest of your post is good as well.
I’m always humorous, but it’s more like accounting humor.
I think this is how it will be for the Sox rotation all year. I can 8 starters getting 15 starts each, IF they are even healthy enough to get than many starts, that is
I couldnt disagree more. All 3 pitchers, that everyone seems to be freaking out about, have very minor injuries. Whitlock pitched 2 shut out innings yesterday, and looked great.
Not surprising, an MLBTR writer didn’t do his homework. At least he wrote 7 paragraphs about a valid subject this time. Even if it is full of bias against the Red Sox.
Also isn’t Bello supposed to get a start this weekend or early next week?
Bello is suppose to get into a game, on either the 19th or 20th.
Respectfully, I think you misunderstood my point. I am not freaking out about the injuries. Just pointing out that I don’t think we will see a conventional rotation with 4 starters pulling in 25-30 starts. I will honestly be very surprised if any of starters reach 30 starts.
I would hope that the managers/coaches limit some of these guys to let them build up. I think we’re going to see a Rotation By Committee this year. I expect the bullpen will have a lot of starters/long arms this year.
in other words, I am just saying that it’s not going to be typical rotation this year. Kinda patchwork
That might be the worst rotation in baseball. But I guess can’t expect much more from a small market team like Red Sox.
Is Pedro Martinez available?
I’m sure he’d let them pay him in Wendy’s chicken sandwiches
at this rate fans sitting down the 1b side might get a chance to start
I think Pivetta should be kept in the rotation. He started 33 games last year. Only four pitchers did that.
I also think the “Pivetta is mediocre” narrative is lazy. Sure, it’s not impossible that he’s just one of those guys who flashes brilliant but never puts it altogether. But what happened in 2022 is that he got pushed probably a little harder than the team would have liked to. He was *fantastic* in May and June. He also topped 100 pitches in six of nine starts, and then was pretty bad for the entire second half. He was the only healthy opening day rotation starter for several consecutive weeks while the team started *four* rookies, consistently needed heavy relief innings, and fell out of the race. There were situations where they just needed to get every inning they could out of the guy, while they shredded the rest of the pitching staff. Note how effective arms like Schrieber were totally shot come September.
I think a case could be made to simply option Bello for a few weeks to manage his workload and get his feet under him, in the event the other six are all healthy. Pivetta could be a huge multi inning weapon out of the pen in a postseason series, but why transition him before you have to, in a rotation full of injury risk?
Pivetta is definitely in the rotation. Regardless of what this future MSNBC writer says.
swanzey – Moving Pivetta to the bullpen is something only the writer believes is a possibility.
As noted in the article, Nick is a workhorse in terms of both starts and IP …. and a “slightly below average ERA” means he’s a #3 starter on most teams.
Why on Earth would a starter that good be moved to the pen? I think there’s zero chance of that happening, unless Pivetta regresses to his days as a Phillie which again I don’t see that happening.
I don’t understand attacking the writer over the suggestion, as I don’t agree that this is the only place it has been suggested
Attacking? Oh my run to your safe space
swanzey – If you can provide links, assuming it’s reputable writers and not just some blogger, I’d be curious to read their rationale for saying Pivetta could or should be moved to the pen.
Having seen Nick Pivetta pitch personally for the better part of 4 seasons, I can tell you that calling Nick Pivetta “mediocre” is a massively undeserved compliment of his work.
I agree 100%. Our biggest weakness is likely to be trying to find 850 IPs from our rotation. His “mediocre” IPs will augment the higher quality innings fro Sale, Kluber, etc.
Kluber
Sale
Whitlock
Crawford
Pivetta
Thats a fine rotation for a building club.
Followed by
Winckowski
Bello
Mata
Its not a great rotation, but its a deep rotation, with plenty of young, innings eaters. Plus, a much, much better bullpen than last season.
1-Bullpen, yes.
2-I think last year’s struggles with Crawford & Winc might pay off this year. I don’t see either of them as being more than a 5/6, but there is value in that. We had good health in 2007, but not everyone remembers that Lest, Buchholz & Gabbard kicked in an 11-1 when we missed some starts.
Winc looks much better this year, and although I counted Crawford in the rotation, those two names should be flipped. As well as, Bello replacing the worst of the 5, when healthy. And dont forget Houck is there for further depth. (I threw that list together too quickly)
This rotation is going to surprise people. Red Sox have several players who can be optioned to Worcester, so whoever isn’t working, will be easily swapped out of the rotation. — But it does have a question mark in Sale, Kluber and Paxton, they need to get 50 starts out of those 3.
The Red Sox starting is going to be better then people think.
Sale
Kluber
Pivetta
Paxton
Whitlock
Houck
Bello
Crawford
Winckowski
Walter
Mata
Murphy
This is the deepest with viable big league arms the Red Sox have been in a long time.
Winckowski is looking way better this year his sinking fastball is sitting 94 and he isn’t telegraphing his slider. He is tunneling off his fastball much better. He also obviously worked on his other secondaries I think he’s a viable back of the rotation starter. Crawford has looked really good as well I’m looking forward to watching both of them take a step forward this year.
Don’t really understand why Sale doesn’t get OD even if Cora told Kluber he would get the nod. Lots can change from January and they’re both veteran pitchers. Whatever. Hope the three other rotation members have no setbacks.
Cora can say what they want for a good quote. Im sure Kluber was only penciled in as the opening day starter. But, I disagree with Sale on Opening Day. Its far too dangerous, his adrenaline is dialed up to 11 during a mid-June start. He needs to be handled with kit gloves.
Opening Day ticket sales this year, and season ticket renewals, severely underperformed compared to usual years.
Like the beat writers, many fans have a very poor view of this squad and have no enthusiasm.
Putting kluber on the mound doesn’t add any attraction draw. An elderly pitcher whose fastball is routinely topping out in the 80s, as he loses a couple mph each year it seems latelt.
Contrast that with the marketing angle of Chris sale, hero of the playoff bound teams who racked up ridiculous strikeout totals before the advent of the k-heavy hitters. He’s retaking the mind, its chris sale comeback time… that may generate some buzz, get interest going and blood pumping.
Kluber? Meh. Who cares.
Opening day is a sell out, and Im sure day 2 is as well. So your ticket sales point is mute.
As of now on RS official ticketing site, OD has 90+ tickets available and the next day has 160+ tickets across all seating sections.
You dont think it will sell out? I’ll take that bet.
Sale is gonna be amped no matter what game is his first start
Of course it will. Even if they don’t, RS will absorb those available seats for optics. The Yankees are also guilty of doing this for big series.
Then what was your point, other than to disagree with me? Starting Sale in game one or two makes no difference, if they will sell out with Kluber.
Also, no one needs to “absorb” 80 tickets for opening day when its still 2 weeks away. Theyll sell.
Before we deem it an absolute failure, let’s see how it plays out. We had average starters in 2021 and still managed to make the postseason.
One of them led the AL in pitcher WAR that year, js
And one could do it this year, we don’t know because the season hasn’t started. js.
And Sale was injured. We actually did better (ironically) when he was on the IL.
Your right petey…I don’t believe in 13 they were expected to do much either… after Lester the rotation was marginal at best… if you remember our closer/ then our other closer both went down.. line up wise it did nothing for ya …. Okay other than 34 but rest of line up was again marginal pick ups… ( also your name sake)i to agree let’s see how it plays out… that’s why they play the games
It’s going to be a long year at Fenway Park.
Nobby – Ticket sales are still shockingly poor.
There are still several thousand unsold seats for the home opener, typically a game that sells out within 5 minutes of individual tickets going on sale.
mlb.tickets.com/?agency=MLB_MPV&orgid=23&…
Trading Bogaerts would’ve caused the fans to freak out. If those fans want to take credit for pushing Red Sox to sign Devers (which they did), those same fans should take the blame for Red Sox inactivity on Bogaerts, last season.
Also Red Sox made a few good moves at trade deadline. What no credit for those?
IMO, not trading Bogaerts was more a matter of respect.
IRT Story, IMO, this was always about Mayers. Right or wrong, they are committed to Mayers at SS for the future.
I agree that was their thinking, however it shouldn’t have been. The price was far lower for Bogearts when they low balled him, or failed to extend him 2, and 3 years ago. People are looking at his new contract and have created a memory hole for what it would have cost us if we just gave him a deal anywhere within the last 4 years. He would have taken far less for the long contract. No, I wouldn’t pay him what San Diego is paying, but San Diego has him because we failed to pay him a fraction when we had the chance in comparison. What he was asking for along the way looks now like a fantastic bargain deal in today’s market.
Mayers is no sure thing. I think he is talented enough to stick as an everyday shortstop, but there is no guarantee he is an all-star, or remain healthy. Things happen. Would anyone really be surprised if like so many big hype guys in history his lofty projections fall short?
By the time Mayers is set to play we could have had the option of moving Xander to another position to make his range issues less felt (assuming we offered a lower annual salary for more years). I would have loved to see Xander at third, Mayers short, and Devers finally moved to first. A move that probably should have been made 2 years ago already. *CLANK* I don’t think I have to go into the Red Sox signing Story. The revelation they knew he was damaged goods and could not play short says it all. If we still signed Story, there was your second baseman in the equation.
The final admissions of the Boston front office during negotiations made it apparent they had no real expectations of meeting his 2023 asking price. If that was the case, I am all for respecting a player that meant so much to the team, but I also like prospects. I am sure Bogearts will shed tears and will always hold a special place in his heart for Boston management for showing him all that respect (lol). JK, we should have traded him the second we knew we would not come close to meeting his price.
I never said to “ give the Red sox credit”
And you must be new here. Because they “freak out” all the time. Look above. Every team picks an opening day starter. But when Red Sox pick Kluber over Sale. The immediate assumption is that it is a “kick in the balls” to Sale. That’s what I consider “freaking out”
And that comment isn’t an outlier, those bizarre comments are made on Red Sox pages all the time. Unfortunately they usually aren’t as easily disproven as that one.
Saratoga
To expand on what I meant, about not trading Bogaerts and freaking out. It was written many time that if the Red Sox dont re-sign Bogaerts and Devers, they “would not recover” from it. You forgot or weren’t here. I call that “freaking out”. And that attitude has effects on ownership/management. So when they signed Devers, check the comments, some of the most vocal keep Bogaerts and Devers people were proud of what they accomplished. Now they same people are whining that they should’ve traded Bogaerts at mid season.
That extra day of rest will do wonders for Sale’s season
The rotation has been a mess since its formation this year. The idea of depending on the island of misfit (injured) toys to pitch 162 games was a long shot at best. We already knew that our depth in the case of injuries was weak. We were pulling from an already improved, but still just adequate, bullpen to fill a rotation out. The additions are nice, but in no way the types of pitchers that would produce a lock down pen consistently.
The worst case is playing out, and we have 3 injuries out of the 6 potential starters. This was predictable. There will be more, and that is unavoidable with this bunch.
I wish we would have done three major things this off season. Instead of spreading the money around on mediocrity. Signed an additional upper tier starter, and at least two lock down bullpen arms. This would have given us, with the addition of Kluber, at least 3 reliable good arms, if he can stay healthy the return of a potential ace to make 4 and put Pivetta in the 5th spot where he belongs (enough with thinking this guy isn’t just an inning eater). The bullpen would have had a 7th, 8th, and 9th slotted pitcher with set roles. Our mediocrity would then be pushed down the line, or off the field. Are we seriously going to entertain another year of Ort, and Brasier in a single high leverage spot?
Abandon this recent trend we have of filling out a roster with versatility over the production of players that have shown they are a major league starting hitter at specific positions they can man with confidence. I would ALWAYS rather have a guy good enough to pencil into the lineup everyday than 3 mediocre guys underperforming at their second, third or fourth best positions. We have a utility guy at short, and 2 left fielders playing center and right at Fenway. A butcher at third, and third baseman at first. Being able to play multiple positions at league average level used to be called a utility player. It shouldn’t be the bulk of a major league lineup. The truth is, and the Red Sox know it, is that these players become exposed, and tend to underperform leaving gaps throughout a lineup as the year progresses. I won’t even go into why having guys play out of position is not a good idea. We all know why, and what tends to happen. Looking for value is fine to fill out a roster, but it shouldn’t be the blueprint for a large portion of your defensive players/hitters, starters and bullpen.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly. The Red Sox are easily one of the worst franchises in the history of professional baseball at developing pitchers. perhaps the worst ever. It is so blatant, and such a long period spanning decades that the first thing I would have addressed is this problem. If I owned the Sox I would reevaluate the entire scouting department, development team, coaching at every level, and pitching philosophy, if any exists at all. We need to become at least average in this department. I would bring in at least two people (one for the team, and one for the minors) that is a specialist in reclamations, fixing, and improving individual pitchers. People that can evaluate what the weaknesses are, or flaws, and address them to the point of making a couple of guys impactful major league pitchers at least every other year. The emphasis has to be on throwing strikes, for once, with actual pitchers that can do it. I am sick and tired of decades of having to have other teams develop quality arms year after year and having to pay or trade for them to have any semblance of a staff.
All that written, we have too high of a budget to have this kind of a team, and these kinds of drastic and mixed results. I say that as someone who has watched the Sox win world series. That is always an incredible achievement, but the lows are inexplicable with these kinds of resources. The reason for the lows is the way we approach rosters, the reason for the highs recently has been either a knee jerk reaction, going all in, after a low or an emphasis on getting the pieces to improve specific weaknesses with better than average talented starting everyday players, or exceptional pitchers.
There is a reason why the Yankees have had not only winning seasons nearly every year of my life, but 1st or second place finishes in nearly every one of those years. They get the best possible every day players they can get capable of playing as a starter, and the best possible pitchers they can get for their starters, and bullpen. Both. The fill in players are always proven major league players, or top prospects, which they seem to produce at about 3x the rate we do.