The Red Sox announced that infielder Angel Pierre has been acquired from the Royals. Pierre is the player to be named later included along with Adalberto Mondesi in the January swap that sent Josh Taylor to Kansas City.
Pierre was an international signing for the Royals in January 2022, and the 19-year-old’s first year as professional saw him hit .300/.424/.550 with two home runs over 125 plate appearances in the Dominican Summer League. Pierre hails from “the Cradle of Shortstops” in San Pedro de Macoris, Dominican Republic, but he mostly played third base in DSL action, with a handful of games as a shortstop and second baseman.
Nice
So, lottery ticket time. No big deal, wait 5 years and see what you scratch off, lucky or not.
Or should we say ‘WOW!’
Way too much to give up for a glove-first player
As a Royals fan I think this is a head scratcher. Why give up a 19 year old, regardless of prospect pedigree for Taylor? For Mondesi who was an impeding free agent with little value? Yeah sure, but I was expecting the PRBNL to be more like some 23 yo still in high-A ball. Doesn’t really feel like a rebuilding move to me.
Mondesi was a below average bat, decent fielder with decent speed but made of glass and can’t stick on the field. He also made a decent amount of money for being a piece who can’t be counted as a regular starter.
Taylor was a pretty good reliever with years of control remaining. Had a clunker in small sample 2020 what was an outlier, and showed ability since.
It’d cost you something, something more than a 23 ur old a level guy even from bumbling bloom. This is a going to be 19 year old this year who hasn’t even hit a-level ball yet.
Complete wildcard
GA. Please stop with your ranting on Bloom Believe it or not, the team was two games from the WS in 21. It takes time to remake a club, especially one with expensive parts already in place and a mandate from ownership on spending. While it will be another year or two to see the minor league talent that he acquired, what young talent has he lost or traded away who you can argue against? Who knows about this year’s Rule 5 losses so they don’t count. Personally, I like his picks overall and getting Whitlock looks amazing. Again, he has to win it all given the fans’ expectations to be considered with other recent GMs but in my view he gets until 2024 due to the pandemic.
Shame Doom!!!
Dewey. It was 2 wins from the ws, and, the problem is whether you believe the club needed to be remade after 2019 or not, and if it did, you look at how they went about it and should’ve started earlier, differently, and made MAJOR mistakes along the way.
The team’s poor showing in 2022 didn’t even have much to do with any moves Bloom made or didn’t make, nor did it have to do with any “mandate from ownership on spending” (which doesn’t even exist) either. The teams misfortunes in 2022 were almost entirely due to them being forced into playing 42 games with starting pitchers with little to no major league experience coming into that season. Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold, and Bello combined for that many starts, over 1/4 of the team’s games. They went 14-28 in those 42 games. That’s why they finished at 78-84 on the season. If they had better health in their starting rotation they likely make the playoffs.
Now Ken, will you make the same injury related allowance for 2019, and say you had a dominant core that was winning for years, should’ve won a bunch more in 19, and didn’t need to be torn down in 20?
And that, as a whole, 2020-2022 could’ve been done a lot better, including the moves for hosmer and jbj, and, the loss of draft slots, bonus money, etc?
King, after the Sale contract, the team stopped adding expensive parts and ownership forced the Betts/Price deal. No Only deal that hasn’t planned out is the Renfroe trade to the Brewers and Bloom wrongly thought a) Renfroe wouldn’t do it again and b) having Bradley would be a positive due to his glove.
Dewey, out of curiosity, was benintendi for cordero/winckowski a good deal? Lottery tickets that haven’t panned out yet aside? The guy who was an all-star gold glover while the sox were patching together struggling outfields the last few years
Was hosmer a good deal for a lefty who was finally getting healthy, good pedigree groome?
Same groome that this spring is 2 starts, 10.2 IP, 10k, and 0.00 era while having 6 years of control, and, not being in his mid to late 30s??? All so hosmer can go play in the Midwest for someone else?
That hosmer trade went as planned and ‘panned out’?
“whether you believe the club needed to be remade after 2019 or not”
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Over The Cap 3 consecutive seasons, best pitcher having TJ, 30th ranked farm system in baseball.
Fact: In 2019, they had to be remade.
After the Sale deal they had Sale at over $25M per year AAV, JDM at $22M per year AAV, Bogaerts at $20M AAV and were still paying $16M per year of Price’s contract. And they STILL signed Story to a $140M deal so to say they stopped signing high priced contracts is pure BS. They didn’t add more expensive parts than that because they already had a large portion of their salary dollars committed to others. I’m not claiming every move Bloom made worked out, but the selective criticism of moves and blatant disregard for the constraints that the free spending from DD and the overpriced deals he gave out that limited spending the past couple of years wasn’t some grand edict from ownership. It’s simply reality. Hell, teams like NY and LA have foregone signings for the same reason in recent years.
Except, youre wrong rsmith. Again.
Clay buchholz was traded in 2017 to get under the tax.
They did pay in 2016. They paid in 2018, and, wound up paying in 2019 except DD was fired that season.
Double check your facts.
Farm system ‘rankings’ mean nothing when you’ve got a stacked roster. And just because an ace gets hurt, you don’t blow up a team.
Ken, first off, the dead money for price was created by bloom, and, he didn’t get good value back for it.
You could’ve traded mookie for a stronger return without attaching price, not signed perez/peraza, and still reset cbt.
So, no allowance for the price money.
The team has still spent big. And they’ve squandered money like trying to buy a prospect with JBJ.
I’m not a guy that argues they haven’t spent. But I do argue they spent foolishly. Story was a boneheaded more the day it happened. If they’d given story’s money to Bogey, you’d still have body, still wouldn’t have story, would’ve had money to spend elsewhere.
Plenty of boneheaded moves we can point to the last 4 offseasons. But the team has spent as shown by exceeding the CBT.
It just hasn’t been done wisely on known commodities, which, is why there’s less to show for it.
Crawford, Winckowski, Seabold, and Bello combined for that many starts, over 1/4 of the team’s games. They went 14-28 in those 42 games. That’s why they finished at 78-84 on the season. If they had better health in their starting rotation they likely make the playoffs.
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It’s a slamdunk. Not everyone understands that the science of which players should be acquired is very difficult. The science behind what you should win, and what you do win, is pretty simple.
30 GS from Sale alone might’ve been enough to make the playoffs. 58 GS from non-regular rotation pitchers is about impossible. Or just from another perspective, games started by rookies:
BOS 45
NYY 12
TBR 11
BAL 38
TOR -0-
No doubt about it. It’s hard to argue against the highest payroll, the worst farm, and the overall #14/15 record. One can argue about the re-make, but we were headed in the wrong direction.
GA, I was posting Benny should have been traded a year earlier when he had maximum value. Some trades don’t work out but I for one thought Benny who was getting pricier has negative value. If Boston kept Benny, Renfroe wouldn’t have been signed. Renfroe was more important to the Sox getting to the AL Championship than Benny would have been. Benny needed a change and I applaud him getting the White Sox deal.
One player long term since Sale’s deal before fans basically forced the team to re-ink Devers and they got Yoshida. So yes, they stopped adding to payroll during those years. Nothing wrong with revamping but not when the team charges the most for basically everything.
Sale was hurt before the deal. That’s always been my problem. The team spends but they stopped big long term deals as others started to spend more. The market has moved big-time which makes their decision making controversial. Again, if Bloom delivers and the pipeline into the majors is rebuilt, he’ll be a hero. But given the recent wins under Theo, Ben and DD, he HAS to win a Series.
GA, you’re naive if you think Ownership didn’t approve or even mandate the Dodgers trade (including) Price. The Dodgers were likely the ONLY team to take Price which of course limited the leverage of trying to get more for Betts. The Dodgers also saved $$ due to the pandemic. If not for it, I believe Mookie would have played it out and gotten more in free agency (from LA).
I agree dewey, the market for Betts was so small. Only 4 or 5 teams have the budget to sign Betts and add to that the team needs to take on Price. You end of with the Dodgers and Yankees, and the Yankees aren’t going to help you out.
Benintendi ain’t no All-Star, even if he once made an All-Star Game.
Dewey is the voice of reason here.
Gonna have to agree on this one as this has the potential for a serious backfire. Groome should still be in Red Sox uniform..
Dewey, I never said either of those things.
I wouldn’t even necessarily mind the betts/price trade IF the freed up salary was spent wisely. Instead, it kicked off the years of spending large amounts of payroll foolishly chasing failed top prospects and buying lottery tickets.
And I’ll leave aside rehashing the prospect selection that went on in the mookie trade too. If someone wants to reopen that door, OK I’ll play. But it’s been beaten to death by now.
Said it before, I’ll say it again. They past 4 offseasons shows by now that they didn’t have a master plan, a blueprint, of what they wanted to do. The process was drawn waaaay out longer than it should’ve been, and, they should have way more loaded prospects and young players than they do right now.
4 years worth of free agency moves. Think about it. Meanwhile, Covid didnt impact offseason signings, trades, so on so forth. And every other club dealt with the same covid canceled milb season in 20. It’s a level field.
If, IF you believe the decision was made in August of 2019 that the direction of the team was to reset, retool, rebuild, whatever you want to call it, you know the plan, timeline etc certainly came up in the interview process.
Again. 4 offseasons. 4 years.
Hank, Benny was traded for cordero (gone, stunk) and winckowski (his high 5s nearly 6 era, really not better than what the revolving door had passing through) and even these days, winc is likely an inferior choice to keep compared to groome, ward, politi et al.
One key thing about advocating that groome should’ve stayed, that ward and politi are having better spring training outings? Back when those guys were being let go amongst others some of us were very vocal about why guys like Brasier, Ort, and Winc among others were inferior options.
So far that’s playing out.
king – That’s a very sad post. Not sure what is worse, trying to blame last year’s last place finish on injuries …. or not realizing there was a lot more wrong than just the starting pitching.
For instance, were you aware the Red Sox had the 5th-worst bullpen in MLB?
dewey – Please stop trying to make this only about winning a WS.
It’s about contending, the only thing Sox fans are asking for.
In 4 years Dombrowski’s teams won the division title 3 times and made the ALDS 3 times.
In 3 years Bloom’s teams have finished last twice. He’s got one more chance this year, if they still don’t make the postseason then Bloom should be held accountable.
When is the proper time to unload a person.How do you determine a guy is toast and won’t come back with success.
dewey–you are right –Bloom has done a GREAT job. Sox have not finished last ALL 3 years he has been in Boston
gasoxfan–no point arguing with Ken. He is a Bloom supporter. With him it is all about blaming DD for saddling the team with bad contracts. While SOME of that may be true the fact remains the Sox were over the cap in 2022 as a result of Bloom signing Paxton who did not toss a single pitch in 2022
I don’t particularly like the Groome deal either BUT in fairness — they had a huge 40 man roster crunch coming up and he was probably going to get left off and tour drafted in rule 5 anyway… should he have been protected over some other guys? maybe… but it wasn’t going to happen.
I’ve not been called that before, at least not by my spouse…
They tried to still compete instead of a full year down. Thus outside of Story , they only made short term deals until 23. Bloom is trying to put together a team that will age well and then add in where needed. I would have been fine with JDM staying instead of Turner but new blood in the locker room can’t hurt.
Fever, DD came with a free reign whereas Bloom came in with marching orders and then the pandemic. I love DD but just assume he remained but ownership still said no to wild spending. Remember DD is very good at many things but his teams have always needed relievers. How was DD going to revamp the team without spending money and having a bare ass minor league system? Bloom has rebuilt their system so as there “should” be a future pipeline for years to come. DD inherited a young nucleus and had no competition for JDM. He excelled at forcing JDM’s contract to be reasonable but should never have re-inked Sale who was clearly injured then. We could go on and on but Bloom is trying to emulate the Astros, not the Rays and if we get pitching this year, we can surprise. My
28. Blown saves, didn’t help.
Not sure what is worse, trying to blame last year’s last place finish on injuries …=======================
It was mostly about injuries. 58 starts by non-rotation SPs, 45 by rookies.
GareBear this trade was made because the newest GM is just as clueless as the previous and the new owner as cheap as the previous.
Taylor? Or Mondesi/Pierre?
Whoops! I misunderstood that deal. I thought this was for Mondesi, not alongside him.
Josh Taylor? So a 30 year old RP with 1.7 career WAR over 3 seasons that wasn’t even in the majors last year and was likely just going to be organizational depth this year…wasn’t worth a 6.7 career WAR 27 year old speed/defense SS which the Sox need and could be even more useful with the new rules (yes I know he has an extensive injury history, but the Sox are starting a CF at SS and have literally no other speed on the roster) and a 19 year old that just had an excellent showing in the DSL? Interesting take.
I had the direction of the trade flipped in my head. Without Pierre, though, I’d say it is an overpay still. Consider WAA alongside WAR. In that sense, the reliever is above average in his career, while Mondesi is below average.
“above average”
WAR is ‘Wins Above Replacement, not average. So 1.7 WAR is probably not “above average”.
2.0 WAR over a full season = 0 Wins Above Average (WAA)
WAA is possibly different for relievers, though. This guy is 0.8 wins above average per 162 games over his career.
Fangraphs had him worth 6.7 career fwar, and 2.2 last year. Baseball Prospectus had him worth 4.3 career bwar, and -0.2 last year.
You’re paying for forwards looking, not backwards looking in the trade. The kid is STILL injured, and hasn’t played yet. You leave that part out, as well as this being his last year of team control.
Coming back from the injury he had, you don’t know he will have his speed back, and you don’t know if durability will be even worse.
It’s literally a wild card. Kiki is a utility player. He’s been played everywhere, even when the dodgers had him, he hasn’t ever staked out a single position, although, I’d prefer using him in the OF hunt because the collection of OFs is such a poor alignment.
So you’re getting, HOPEFULLY, a partial year out of mondesi even if he does stay healthy, which, hasn’t happened yet.
So, yep, I do expect more than just him, and apparently so did bloom, and, apparently, other gms around baseball weren’t exactly beating down the Royals door to get him either.
The DSL is nothing, its hisnfirst taste of action… If he had that showing in AA as say a 21 year old you’d have a point. Right now, it’s still a lottery ticket + a hurt player who can’t play that has never gone a long season without being hurt a significant time.
You complain about other people leaving details out of their arguments while leaving out the fact that Taylor didn’t pitch all last year and wasn’t even hitting 90 in his rehab appearances before getting shut down. True, you aren’t supposed to pay for past production, but the calculus of Taylor’s potential contributions changed drastically since the last time he was on a big league mound
Solid comeback!
GASoxFan: The fair thing to do is wait and see how all the players involved perform and then evaluate it. You hate Bloom by your own admission. I recommend you find something better to do. This can’t be enjoyable for you.
Suit, other than wanting to bash me as a bloom hater anyhow you can, where does me saying a guy was a wild card and it was appropriate to ask for said lottery ticket beyond mondesi straight up for Taylor in regards to GareBear saying the Royals overpaid constitute me making some type of… well, whatever it is you think you’re responding to?
I mean do you read what I was arguing for? Or just see the username and jump in about how I hate bloom?
I’ll agree…. just like mondesi has, IF he even makes it all the way back at all.
So, there’s what, maybe 3 years control left for taylor till 2026. More if they option him for some reason.
So far in ST just getting up to speed he’s gone 7 games, 6 2/3 IP, 3 ER in his tuneup without the best defense behind him. A 1.65 whip, not great, not horrible. 10.9 k/9. 2.7 Bb/9. Thats decent control for, as is said, a guy who hasnt been throwing a lot in a while.
That’s a servicable pen arm for KC that could improve further, at a cost of an unknown amount of time from a guy whose game depends on his speed and range, coming back from a ACL injury that could kill both, and we know will be less than a year on the field, even IF he doesn’t hurt himself again
You were minimizing Pierre because he has only played in the DSL (“the DSL is nothing”) and minimizing Mondesi because he has been hurt in the past. You also neglected to discuss Taylor’s injury problems. If you did, the deal would look better for Boston.
Do you miss the fact I was already DEFENDING Boston against Garebear saying there was no reason to include more than mondesi?
Are YOU now seeing what you want to see?
Fwiw, pierre signed as an intl player much older than such kids usually sign. There’s a reason for that. So, no, his summer league output as a 19 yr old nears nothing for his future. He’s a wide open lottery ticket.
Most throw ins on deals like this are.
Any logical Sox fan hates bloom and the penny pinching owners…
I see that, but minimizing the worth of Pierre and Mondesi is an odd way to defend Boston. As I said, the fair thing to do is wait and see how all the players involved perform and then evaluate it.
It’s a rumors site. We talk about NOW.
We don’t sit around and just rehash what went right and what went wrong back in 2017 when we acquired guys and are seeing how they look after going through the minors and a few mlb seasons.
Pointing out the flaws on the guys is part of being objective. Notice, nowhere did I say the trade shouldn’t have been made, and, nowhere did I say the sox should’ve asked for more.
Only that the guys were flawed and there’s a reason they got as much as they did.
Re-read things through that lens, not the I hate bloom so I must be biased lens you choose and expect to use.
“penny pinching owners”
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Should be:
‘Over the Threshold, 5th Highest Payroll, Penny Pinching Owners’
There, I fixed it for ya.
GASoxFan: “It’s a rumors site. We talk about NOW. We don’t sit around and just rehash what went right and what went wrong back in 2017”
You say this after constantly trying to rehash Bloom’s trades of players from the 2019 team? Man, you need a break. You may be losing it.
You can’t have both ways. I get asked why I’m against bloom, I’ll answer.
But I don’t hold my opinion to wait several years to bring it up. I’ve been consistently against things, as they happen.
Finish the whole sentence in the quote suit, don’t cherry pick half the statement without the context
GASoxFan: Yeah, why wait several years to see how things turn out when you can bash Bloom now?
Well Suit, if the problem is visible today… Why wait?
I guess I’m only partially logical because I’m giving Bloom until after 24 to judge him but yes I hate ownership.
Taylor has almost no trade value. He’s about the 5th or 6th best reliever at best in an average MLB bullpen. He’s just a guy at the bottom of the roster.
You’re fixed nothing you left out info. The money they were paying taxes on was not for the player they had indeed a big chunk were to failed deals on the books so th hey didn’t hat 250 mill in talent on the field.
I can spell reply though…..
What is Blood afraid to get pitching prospects every deal he makes is for infield prospects
Not a Red Sox fan but I’ll admit they got the best of this deal.
Not a Red Sox fan but I’ll admit they got the best of this deal.
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They did, but that was a function of KC handing off the SS position to Witt, and they probably felt compelled to move Mondesi.
Fitting since it will take an act of God for the Sox to make the playoffs this year.
Isn’t everything an act of God?
Never say never.
I hope that he turns out to be a MLB infielder, interesting yet unproven. Seems like a break even deal now
I liked Josh Taylor. When he’s healthy he pitches 47 innings and gives up 17 runs. That’s a pretty small contribution, albeit a useful one. These guys coming back? We’ll see. It might work out just fine for both teams. Those are the best trades, win-win.
Most of the good international players are signed at 16 yrs old. Being as Pierre was 18 or 19 when signed, he is not really a top prospect. He is someone who came along and had 1 good year in the DSL, a hitters league. This guy is a complete lottery ticket, not someone you worry about losing!
Pierre had a great career with the Marlins and Rockies and others – surprised he’s still around! 🙂
So, essentially, the Bloomer gave up Taylor for nothing. Just like with Benentendi. He must be working for the Rays from the inside.
He received Mondesi and Pierre you moron.
No, he won the trade by getting Mondesi in his walk year. The small chance that Mondesi stays healthy and puts together a good season is more valuable than a backend bullpen arm.
The small chance that Mondesi stays healthy
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That’s always been my take. I like Taylor, and he should make a solid contribution to the KC BP. But he is also replaceable.
It’s a low-level extrapolation, but if were to take his four years prior to 2022, his production per 162 games would have 21 HRs and 68 SBs, with a good glove. He could easily crap out, but I’m more than willing to take that gamble.
Looks like a good piece to get back
The 2023 Red Sox look much deeper than the 2021 team that went to the ALCS, and better that the 2022 Phillies that went to the WS. A playoff run is certainly reasonable with all the depth and versatility of the players they have.
Red Sox are still expanding their farm system! The better it becomes, the better their future could look! Let’s see how Pierre handles CPX and maybe Low A this year!
Wow… the crazies are out today. Just scanned the postings and not much baseball knowledge appeared in the comments.
A guy gets selected for the All-Star game but someone declares he’s not an all-star?. Sure seemed like that was an irrefutable fact yet someone was so hyped with hate they tried to deny the fact that he IS AN ALL-STAR whether they like it or not.
More craziness about the less talented farm system being the future of the Red Sox. Do a quick math calculation and remove the 150 points for Mayer being drafted because Bloom failed miserably in his first season and you have a farm system ranked BELOW where it was when Bloom arrived. Downs is the perfect example of subtraction through addition. Bloom adds a hyped-up Downs from Friedman the manipulator of prospect values and then he drops from 44 to over 200 and gets DFA’d!! That’s an example of the impact of Bloom on the farm system. Get real. The farm system has taken some major hits under Bloom. The guys rising to the top right now are DD guys and even old Cherington guys.;
Taylor is no more an impact player than the highly over-rated Kiki Hernandez who has hit .239 since coming to Boston. The guy had 2 weeks where he plays like a star and 50 weeks where he’s been terrible and some fans can only remember the two weeks.
Did we win anything from his two week hot streak? NOPE. Not a division or a ring. Things we used to win before Bloom. Taylor for Mondesi and anyone else is a good deal as much as I don’t usually like Bloom’s deals. Taylor is a journeyman reliever who won’t impact the season much. A healthy Mondesi could impact the season. Sure it’s a gamble but it’s at next to no cost.
People keep talking about journeymen players as if they impact the season significantly. THEY DON’T. You know what does? TALENTED PLAYERS. We haven’t acquired one that has stayed healthy since Bloom arrived. The two most talented players acquired by Bloom other than Story were Renfroe and Schwarber and he dumped both of them.
A powerless LF from Japan who can’t run, can’t field and has no power is a DH waiting to happen but Boston already has an even worse fielder at 3B so that makes 2 DHs and then Bloom got a 90 year old 3B who he’s going to use at DH since he can put him at 1B while the next star of the future is playing the position. WHAT A MESS!!!
The old DD rhetoric has popped up again. The paid influencers are out in force!!
DD NEVER SADDLED BLOOM WITH PAYROLL ISSUES. The extra pay came long before DD arrived and has now ROLLED OFF COMPLETELY. The ALL-STARS DD left Bloom were paid like all-stars and were NOT OVERPAID for their skills. Cora damaged several of the pitchers but that can’t be built into the contract negotiations.
BLOOM has over spent the $20MM HIGHER CAP and produced a last place team that is an embarrassment to Red Sox Nation. That alone should have gotten him fired. Dewey, I hope you don’t run your own business the way you treat the timetable for Bloom. If a person is hired to do a job and fails miserably in his first year you don’t keep them and run your organization into the ground thinking that person might turn things around. You fire them as soon as possible and go in a new direction.
DD got less than 4 seasons and was 104 games over .500.
Bloom according to Dewey should get 5 years after being 4 games over .500 after 3 years.
That’s a bad business decision that will continue to haunt the Red Sox for years.
Let’s scoop up the manure in the barn and fertilize the land by removing Bloom, Cora and the entire front office. Put them out to pasture!!!
Hire an experienced Head Of Baseball Operations who can bring in his own successful people to turn around this sinking ship before it ends up in the bottom of Boston Harbor.
So many things wrong in your post. Its a joke. Ill just pick one.
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“DD NEVER SADDLED BLOOM WITH PAYROLL ISSUES. The extra pay came long before DD arrive”
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What does that even mean? It came off before Dombrowski arrived? We know it did. But then he proceeded to go over the cap in 16, 2017, 18, and 19,
Are you saying he wasn’t over the cap for 3 consecutive years? Are you saying that maximum penalities for being over the cap werent already established on the team by DD? Are you saying without trading Betts and Price, the Red Sox couldve avoided further penalties?
For a guy who claims to have “baseball knowledge” you dont understand how the Threshold works or the penalties involved.
I got to do a second one:
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“Do a quick math calculation and remove the 150 points for Mayer being drafted because Bloom failed miserably in his first season and you have a farm system ranked BELOW where it was when Bloom arrived.”
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First off, why are we subtracting him? You’ve decided Red Sox dont get to count ANY first round draft pick from 2020 for reasons. We cant even get half value? Even if they didn’t tank it, during the joke season that was Covvid (smart move I might add), they wouldve still gotten a pick.
Where are you getting this 150 points from? Is this made up value system, or are you getting this from somewhere? Too bad there isnt a system in place where they do break up players and establish a value system for them, and then we could compare to other teams prospect system. . . .Oh WAIT, there is.
fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2022-in-season-p…
BLAM!!!!!
According to Fangraph Marcelo Mayer has a ‘Future Value’ of 55M. If the Red Sox could sell him today, they would receive around 55M
Right now their total farm system value is 245M, if we subtract 55M, they drop 7 slots from 9th farm system to 16th. Even at 16th place, it is far far better than the last place left behind by DD. This has been established many times on this site, and I even read it recently at Yardbarker. Bloom inherited the WORST farm system in baseball. But we cant see, its behind a paywall.
Now, in your F’ed up system, do we drop every teams 2020 pick to be fair, or just the Red Sox?
rsmith – Once again try to study up on these topics so you don’t come off so completely ignorant.
Bloom gets no credit for fixing the farm system by tanking the MLB team as he did in 2020. It’s an embarrassment to Red Sox Nation as I mentioned but you couldn’t comprehend the simple comment. He dumped Mookie. You can’t tank any harder than giving away your best player.
You obviously have no clue how Rating Systems work. Go read about it. The Fangraph’s link is meaningless with regard to the topic being discussed. I’m glad you at least reference ONE baseball website for knowledge. Now you need to ask someone what the individual pages mean.
Farm Systems are rated based on their players. When Mayer was added to the Red Sox farm system after the 2021 draft it gained 150 points (Mayer’s value) and moved from 21st to 9th overall. This is a simple concept, even for you!! Also, when Betts was given away for Jeter Downs, the farm system got points for Downs and then lost them as he failed miserably. If you look into the facts and stop making things up you will find that there is a value to each player and it goes up and down based on performance. Since Bloom arrived, the team total has gone up due to one BIG ADDITION, Mayer. It has fallen off in other areas like Downs. The net effect is that without Mayer Bloom’s impact on the farm rating would be negative. Since he’s traded or signed over 100 players in the minors since he arrived that means he’s let go just as many. The net value of his adds is negligible if you remove Mayer. It’s very simple.
It’s really getting old teaching you aspects of baseball you pretend to have knowledge of. If I’m going to teach you at least be respectful in your comments.
Fangraph’s approach to farm systems is something they made up and it doesn’t represent anything that is real. Also, as I mentioned the farm system was at 21 when Bloom came aboard NOT LAST and it jumped to 9th after Mayer was selected.
You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to farm systems and why you are using FanGraphs is beyond me. The numbers are all fabricated estimates. .
The evaluation of a farm system should be how it impacts the MLB team. The rating systems try to PREDICT or ESTIMATE the future. The graduates who contribute to the MLB team are the ACTUAL FACTS that show the value of the farm system. Betts being ranked 100 or 41 was meaningless. The numbers that Betts provided to the Red Sox once he graduated from the minors is a TRUE REFLECTION of how good the farm system was at that time. Likewise, CASAS and other recent graduates define how successful the farm system is today!!.
Bloom has produced no impact players at the MLB level and none at the minor league level. His claim to fame is trashing the 2020 season and getting the 4th pick in the draft and having two idiot GMs in front of him pass on the second best player in the draft so he fell to Bloom. Nothing about that scenario is something Bloom should be proud of. He did a bad job in 2020 and then got lucky that two GMs passed on Mayer. It’s embarrassing how bad he is at his job!!
So we should use hindsight to judge strategy, and bad process never leads to good results. Cool
1) You remove Mayer from your rankings why? Every other team had a first round pick that year. Yet, youve decided that 2020, the Red Sox dont deserve one.
‘And with their selection in the 2020 MLB Draft, the Boston Red Sox select No One, due to it being forfeited because it doesnt work for PulledABloom’s argument’
Reminds me of Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar.
youtube.com/watch?v=Dx32b5igLwA
2) Mayer is not that important to the overall health of the team according to Fangraph. His value is 46Million (earlier I said 55 by mistake) That drops the team from 9th place to 15th
fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2022-in-season-p…
Look at the chart under 55 FV youll find a ‘2’, if you click on that it says Mayer and Casas, they are both worth 46M. Subtract 46M from Red Sox 245M to 199M, that would put them tied for 15th with Mil and Mial.
3) Now Ive explained and shown exactly how that works. “farm systems are rated” BY WHO, and WHERE? Where are you getting your “150” value from, and how much value does the whole farm system have. Without that information, you comment is a joke. So simple that even you could understand.
rhswanzey – I get you enjoy sarcasm but this was a bit cryptic.
You use player futures to judge strategy? I’m confused. Why would player futures which are bogus predictions not based on performance a good way to build strategy. Isn’t strategy a bit more methodical in that it addresses future positions and filling them with quality players and if your bogus player projections are incorrect you still have alternative players at each position to fall back on. An example is having Moncada, Devers and Chavis at 3B many years ago. Devers was the chosen one to be the DR pipeline guy so Moncada got shipped and Chavis was the back-up if Devers didn’t work out. That led to Sale and a ring. Seems like a successful strategy to me.
Now think about Bloom’s approach. Is it methodical? Does he have an accountants mentality that ensures all positions are thoroughly planned for? I don’t see it. He picked up a DH in Scwarber when he had JD. He picked up Story when he had Bogey at that time and Mayer in the future. Didn’t we need other positions more like OUTFIELD?
Do you think bad process leads to good results? Your comment if sarcastic suggests it does. What bad process are you inferring rather than stating? And what good results have happened from a bad process?
Next time, include a decoder!!
Wow, just wow. I just read your last comment in its entirety. It explains NOTHING. Its just 8 paragraphs insulting Bloom and me. I like that you said “If Im going to to teach you at least be respectful”. I should be respectful. Priceless.
“so you dont come off so completely ignorant”
“you couldnt comprehend the simple comment”
“you obviously have no clue”
“simple concept even for you”
“stop making things up”
“Its really getting old teaching you”
“you pretend to have knowledge”
“you have no idea what youre talking about”
Those are all woven into your 9 paragraph comment. When youre not talking to me, youre insulting Bloom instead. — I get it now, youre an idiot who has no clue, youre way overmatched in this subject so you make up “150 point” systems in your head.
F* You! Good bye.,
Pulled While I’m not enamored with this years off-season from Bloom it’s way to early to judge his drafts and international signings.
Let’s also get real about 2020 anyone with any baseball acumen completely discounts that season. I don’t blame Bloom for that season at all. Any team would be hurt when you lose your best starter Sale and another of your starters Eduardo Rodriguez and this happens after free agency so you can’t even replace them. The season is shortened to 60 games and, unfortunately or fortunately depending on how look at it, the Red Sox predictably started slowly.
I remember watching games that year and after the first month the Red Sox were 10-20. Now normally that would be a disaster start but recoverable in a normal season not so in a 60 game season. I remember watching them finally get hot at the end of the season and watching them win games it’s impossible to know but if the season was a real 162 games they probably would finished more middle of the pack and would not of gotten Mayer. I think fortunately for us the season was only 60 games and allowed them draft Mayer. As far as judging Bloom in 2020 in a 60 game season ridiculous.
The Red Sox came 2 games away from making the World Series in 2021 that happened and it can’t be taken away. Bloom made some decent moves and needs to get some credit for getting to within 2 games of the World Series especially if your going to rip for what happened in ridiculous 60 game season.
Last year was interesting the fact is Boston was 10 games over .500 at the end of June. Unfortunately injuries mounted and for the first time since the 60’s the Red Sox had to rely on 4 rookie starters. I’m sorry no team is going to whether that storm. I will admit the way that Bloom went about the trade deadline imo was very poor. He had to know it was a long shot at best that Boston was going to have a playoff team his add some subtract some was particularly perplexing. Still this teams record in 2022 was injury based. The argument can be made that by adding the arms he did in the off-season they were particularly vulnerable to injuries but still I don’t think you can predict that you will have to have 4 rookies in the rotation at once that’s bad luck. While we are at it I would be remiss to not say that in 2021 Boston was very lucky on the injury front and this contributed to their solid showing in 2021.
If we fast forward to this year the off-season was underwhelming imo especially when we factor in the amount of money that Bloom had to work with. I was, as most fans were, very upset with the loss of Bogey. I just think the money could of been spent better. Time will tell but based on talent on paper this team should be battling Baltimore for last place in the brutal AL East.
I personally think Bloom is doing a solid job of drafting and signing of international free agents but that proof is still years away. Bloom has only been responsible for 3 drafts and the first one was a five round draft without a second round pick. It’s probably going to 2025 before we really start being able to begin grading out his drafts. I think overall he hasn’t been the complete disaster that some on this board believe. I’m leaning to below average after the dismaying 2022 deadline moves and the underwhelming off-season but I also won’t be surprised if the Red Sox over perform this season if the starters stay healthy. I also firmly believe this team has far more depth in starting pitching then they have had in many many years.
he also called you an ignorant fool. You missed nugget steeped in the hypocrisy of those comments too.
Pulled – don’t forget who brought guys like Bello and ceddane into the system.
Hint: not bloom.
It takes time GA Sox fan it’s fair to criticize Bloom on some things but drafting and international signings isn’t on of them at least not yet.
At “pulledabloom” – okay, here’s the decoder: your rant overall was dismissive and arrogant, and typically something I don’t bother responding to. The part that got me to chime in was this:
“The graduates who contribute to the MLB team are the ACTUAL FACTS that show the value of the farm system.”
This statement is just so damn asinine that I couldn’t stop myself from a comment. I don’t doubt that you are aware of the tremendously low hit rate on any given draft pick or minor league player in this sport. This is probably the hardest to draft and develop of the major sports.
It’s buried in a rant about how awful this GM is. My point was/is pretty obviously that as much as you want to talk about “ACTUAL FACTS”, baseball is a sport where good process *frequently* leads to bad outcomes, simply because the very low likelihood of any given draft pick or minor leaguer appearing in MLB, much less having a career. It’s an incredibly hard sport, on the diamond or in the front office.
You just sound like a guy who finished second in his Yahoo! league a couple of times, so now he’s smarter than everyone else in the room.
Bruin – yell that to everyone who claims the rebound in the sox system is based on bloom
but drafting and international signings isn’t on of them at least not yet.
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This is why no GM can be judged before about 5 years, maybe more. If Ceddanne & Bello become the next Betts & Pedro, the DD looks like a genius. We are nowhere close to being able to evaluate DD’s prospects, let alone Bloom’s.
So why does Bloom get ‘credit’ for rebuilding the farm when, for all you know, he’s built nothing?
GASoxFan
So why does Bloom get ‘credit’ for rebuilding the farm
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Because the farm was #30 when he got here, and now it is roughly #10-12.
Kind of an obvious answer.
Joe, you’re contradicting yourself.
If it’s not Blooms drafting and international signings that are ready to be judged, and that aren’t ready yet, that means it’s mostly DDs guys with some remnants of cherington fueling that rise, isn’t it?
You can say Mayer had a small impact, but, ANY gm with a top 5 draft pick is going to get a system bump from that one guy, so, that doesn’t count as ‘skill’
So, why is bloom responsible for the rise when guys like casas, bello, ceddane, etc who really fuel the overall jump had nothing to do with bloom?
it’s mostly DDs guys with some remnants of cherington fueling that rise, isn’t it?
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According to SoxProspects, Mayers is #1, Bleis #3, and Yorke #5. Given the timeline for development (Casas drafted in 18, and Rafaela signed in 17), having 3 of the top five is good.
You know, dedicating yourself to criticizing all things all things Bloom, is going to keep you from ever seeing reality.