Major League Baseball has introduced a number of rule changes for the 2023 campaign. The pitch clock, limitations on infield shifting, and enlarged bases were all announced last September, with the changes going into effect this spring.
With Opening Day now ten days out, Evan Drellich of the Athletic reports the Competition Committee met this afternoon to discuss potential alterations to some of the new rules. Specific changes under consideration aren’t known but Drellich notes that any adjustment made before Opening Day would not be expected to be major. To be clear, there’s nothing to suggest the committee is considering abandoning any of the new provisions entirely. Rather, they’re examining potential tweaks to the rule changes that have already been put in place.
Even small changes to the rules less than two weeks before meaningful action begins could lead to an adjustment period that lingers into the season. However, it appears the changes under consideration are at the MLBPA’s behest. Drellich notes the union brought some concerns about the new rules to the league to prompt the reconsideration.
The players on the Competition Committee voted unanimously against the implementation of the pitch clock and the shift limit last summer. That was little more than a symbolic gesture, as the four players on the committee are outnumbered by the six league appointees (plus an umpire). That gives MLB essential unilateral control for changes to the on-field rules — which was mutually agreed upon by MLB and the Players Association during the last round of collective bargaining — and MLB pushed through the clock and shift ban over the objections of the players on the committee.
As things stand, pitchers have up to 15 seconds with no one on base and a maximum of 20 seconds with runners aboard to begin their delivery. Hitters, meanwhile, have to be in the box and alert to the pitcher by the time the clock gets to eight seconds. Hitters are also capped at one timeout per plate appearance, while pitchers cannot disengage from the rubber (either a step-off or pickoff attempt) more than twice in an at-bat unless an out is successfully recorded on the third disengagement. Umpires are, however, granted broad authority to award extra time if circumstances necessitate.
The pitch clock has seemed to have its intended effect in exhibition play. Drellich points out that this year’s Spring Training games have averaged two hours, 36 minutes through play on Sunday after averaging three hours, one minute in 2022. Whether it’ll carry over to that extent in important games remains to be seen but the league is surely happy with the early reduction in dead time.
Drellich notes some on the players’ side believe the 15-second minimum for pitchers with no one on base and the eight-second rule for hitters leave too little time. MLBPA executive director Tony Clark expressed broad frustration with the process over the weekend. “My hope despite the fact that nearly all of the things that we have seen that would otherwise be characterized as challenges could have been avoided with the input that the players offered when these rules were being constructed,” Clark said on Saturday (link via Associated Press). “My hope is that moving forward that the league continues to take the input of players to heart, such that each of the adjustments that we’ve seen that have been implemented this year are of benefit in the long run.”
It seems MLB has taken that sentiment enough to consider alterations to the new rules, though it’s not yet known if any adjustments will actually be made. There’s a small window to put anything else into play before Opening Day.
Too late imo
Outfielders can’t shift on left handed hitters? 20/25 seconds instead of 15/20?
18 and 23 seconds is perfect seems arbitrary but it’s the sweet spot for getting good action without rushing the game entirely imo.
Wait a second…..
Right, baseball is already culturally irrelevant and there’s no coming back for it.
Nice to see that baseball has now become a dictatorship with player’s wishes now considered irrelevant.
Familiar with the long history of baseball?
Google the reverse clause
Yup, this is just another example of those making the rules having little to no actual experience in the field they are making the rules for. They hopefully will listen to players and make the necessary adjustments. As for the pitch clock, I hope they eliminate it for at least the 9th inning of close games and playoffs.
The makeup of the panel was agreed upon in the last collective bargaining. Also, when wasn’t it a dictatorship? Its an employer-employee relationship. Nothing new here. Its like most jobs.
A good employer will look for input from their employees in order to make their business run smoother or their products better. A good way to piss of employees is to make unilateral changes without consideration to how those changes will affect their on job performance.
Not if the customers want something else.
This baseball fan agrees with the players, the pitch clock is stupid.
That’s your opinion. The players are ok with the pitch clock, and the majority of fans love it
This fan loves the clock. The worst part of baseball, imho, was watching guys like Pedey and Hargrove taking 5-10 seconds to adjust their gloves on EVERY pitch.
Then there was watching Buchholz shake off the catcher 5x. Then the catcher has to visit the mound. Then go thru the signs again. Then the batter has to step out because it’s been 2 minutes since the last pitch.
“The players on the Competition Committee voted unanimously against the implementation of the pitch clock and the shift limit last summer.” -from the article.
This doesn’t lead me to believe the players are “ok” with the pitch clock, and I think the divide seems about 50/50 with fans.
Even more ridiculous is the ghost runner in the 10th inning. If MLB really must put the kabosh on marathon games, add the ghost runner in the 12th (at first base) or 13th inning (second base).
Harpers homerun in last years playoffs, the build of that moment, wouldn’t be possible if the pitch clock were in place. It’s just not enough time. You lose one of the best parts of the game, the drama of the moment. It’s great during the regular season with games moving a little faster but it will kill the playoffs. We want those moments. They make the game better than any other sport.
We all know the scenario, 2 on, 2 out, 2 strikes, bottom of the 9th, we don’t want that moment rushed or a strike called on a pitch clock violation. It’s not baseball. Just my opinion. I still won’t like it but maybe 30 seconds and 25?
Calm down.
They have not implimented it in the postseason (yet) so this point is silly. And maybe they make it so there is no clock in the 9th if the store is within 4 or something… that could help.
I’m sorry to tell you this but the actually have implemented the pitch clock for the playoffs. This isn’t like the extra innings rule. This is for ALL games. Not to be combative but my comment is spot on. I want the playoff moments and this will absolutely destroy those.
@NickTheDev If the store is in within 4 blocks of a major league stadium, there should be no clock on buying beer.
Totally agree. Baseball is the thinking man’s game. Pitchers and catchers need time to decide where to throw a pitch while the hitters need time to figure out where the pitcher is likely to throw the next pitch depending on the count. Sunday’s WBC game lasted 3 1/2 hours while Monday’s was nearly 4, and I enjoyed every minute of it. If some people, probably the same ones who will sit through a 3-4 hour football game and not complain, want a faster game, they should watch little league.
Perhaps those that can think faster than the others will have the edge. I don’t think every second scratching, spitting, or readjusting batting gloves is necessarily tied to simultaneous thinking. Those were indeed great games, but the time between pitches is not the reason why.
Perhaps those that can think faster than the others will have the edge.
==========================
That was my exact thought. There are some FB teams and some QBs that can go an entire drive without a huddle. If the defense cannot call their sets as quick as the QB does, do they deserve more time?
@miles
You describe a great moment. However, with playoff start times at 8pm eastern, extra pomp at the start with introductions, most kids only saw the replay, as it was midnite when it happened. Great way to build a fan base. There will still be suspense with the pitch clock, just more people will see it.
stymee- I don’t believe that that many more people will see it at 11:30 as opposed to midnight. Playoff games should be starting earlier, maybe 7 eastern and then if they keep the pitch clock in those games they will end at a more reasonable time.
Harpers homerun in last years playoffs, the build of that moment, wouldn’t be possible if the pitch clock were in place.
======================
I love the clock, but would not object to a different set of rules in the post-season.
they said all this same stuff when the play clock entered basketball. All it’s done has made games more exciting. I think a pitch clock is needed or you have the 5 hour Red Sox-Yankee games on Sunday night. I miss 4 innings of the game because I have to wake up for work the next day.
No one wanted these rules changes. Just roll out the balls and let them play
I wanted these rule changes. Most people I listen to and read like them as well. If you think it’s nobody, you need to get out of your bubble.
You speak in absolutes. I enjoy the changes.
Wrong.
People did want changes, so you’re wrong.
I love the changes. It has been pleasant not having batters adjust their batting gloves between every pitch. MLB should tell the players to just follow the rules and stop whining
I am a diehard Giants fan but Joey Bart drove me nuts with him unwrapping and re-tightening both of his batting gloves after every freaking pitch even if he didn”t swing. Probably wasted 10-15 seconds between each pitch. Absolutely ridiculous. Those gloves also didn’t help him produce with the bat at all. He looks like he has it fixed from the spring training games I’ve seen so far. Rule changes are meant to lessen all the normal crap pitchers and hitters would do each at bat. I like the rule changes on bases also. Already have seen a major uptick on stolen bases. Bryce Johnson has 12 stolen bases already. Camilo Doval also took forever between his pitches. Looks like thst is fied also.
I wanted them to enforce the rules. The clocks are fine. Many wasted too much time. Some way too much. I guess some are fans of pitchers wandering around a pile of dirt and batters playing with velcro.
I learned about the pitch time limit rule in the early 70s and it was baffling to me why it was never enforced,
There was also a pitcher coming to a discernible stop rule that they never enforced. About 35 years ago, the umpires started enforcing the rule, and few people even remember it being abused.
There’s also a rule in which all infield players are allowed to go to the mound during a pitcher-catcher-manager meeting in the AL while no IFers are allowed to. That is no longer unforced either. Then again, there isn’t any differentiation between the AL and NL anymore due to interleague play.
Maybe instead of robot umpires they should have robot players. They wouldn’t need to adjust their gloves or use the rosin bag or go to the on-deck circle for more pine tar or have meetings on the mound. Robots would also save teams money on uniforms. They could just paint numbers, logos and team’s names right on the robots.
If that level of robot exist that would be awesome. Until then they can still use paint instead of jerseys. Might need an exemption for Altuve or might have to go to Japan.
Not sure about using them in baseball but if they ever come up with Real Steel type robots that can box each other, I’ll be the first one to buy tickets! Real Steel was a surprisingly good movie in my opinion (whatever that’s worth).
Can robots bang on trash cans? Lmbo
I for one am against the pitch clock but that being said I am glad that the changes made seem to help the offense. Seems that the tweaks they made in the past like changing the balls and mound have helped the pitching. So I will wait to make a total decision until after the season
@Dorothy_Mantooth Agree. Van Helsing not as good but better than I thought it would be. Chappie was it? I never gave that one a try. Let me know if I missed out. Van I had to see and was surprised it was better than I thought. Real was solid. Something about Chappie or whatever other Jackman robot movie set off a red flag.
Don’t forget about the advertising that we could paint on the robots.
However, Cohen’s robots would be state-of-the-art, and Cincinnati’s would be all stock Roombas bought at Bed Bath and Beyond
Brilliant, Mac!
I would like to turn off the pitch clock in the ninth inning and after.
Decrease the time for the 9th. Half the length of a basketball game is the final 2 minutes. Can’t watch it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are considering giving out warnings to batters and pitchers in the 9th inning versus just enforcing the rule, especially with 2 outs and either 3 balls or 2 strikes on the batter. MLB wants to avoid a ‘walk-off’ win by a pitch clock violation at all costs, especially to start the season and anytime during the playoffs. Also, they should allow the umpires to verbally notify batters when they are close to a batter’s box time violation instead of just calling a strike on them with less than 8 seconds left.
Overall, the rule changes are great! Love the premise of the pitch clock and the shift ban, but some tweaks are needed to the pitch clock to ensure they don’t impact the game too much. Games need to be decided on the field and not in the time keeper’s box.
Virtually everybody who actually attends the games or actually spends money on the sport wanted the pitch clock.
Not me. If I paid to go to a game I want it to be as long as possible. And not end on a stupid clock violation
You are in the minority. I love these new rules.
What proof do you have that you’re in the majority?
I’ve seen multiple polls that say about 2/3 of fans like the new rules.
Which balls? The ones the Yankees used for Judge or the dead ones? MLB is being run by crooks. They Are doing everything possible to get NY and LA in the world series to make more money.
Dpsmith. When I found out that they were using different balls in the Aaron Judge games I was appalled.
Screw Manfred for that. I seem to be one of the few people who has a balanced opinion of Manfred. He’s done some really scuzzy things and some really good things. I typically judge things on the merits and not by who does them.
That’s why I love it when LA or NY are knocked out of the PO as early as possible. Drives Manfred, the owners and national media nuts.
The players (who I nearly unanimously side with on most issues) ruined the game with breathing and meditation coaches turning every at bat into a seven minute slog. The game is suffering and there are fewer baseball fans because of it. These changes have dramatically increased the amount of action going on and I think it’s flat out nuts not to be in favor of them but rather in favor of Pablo Sandoval taking a strike, stepping out of the box, going to the dugout for a new uniform and changing into that, calling his mother on the phone, having a sandwich, stepping back into the box, calling time, asking the umpire if he’s ever visited Venezuela (he has and they talk about that for a few minutes), puts his hand down, takes a ball outside…
@DanUgglasRing “The game is suffering and there are fewer baseball fans because of it..”
Such utter nonsense. How can revenue keep going up and viewership keep going up if what you say is true. Do not MLB and owners get their money from fans? Just stop being one of those who likes the pitch clock and keeps making up stupid nonsense about why it has to be.there or the game is lost. If nobody ever mentioned the pitch clock and it never got put into a game we would all still watch. So stop pretending the game was going to die if they never put in the pitch clock in.
Viewership and attendance have been declining since 2007. The money from TV contracts doesn’t seem to be perfectly correlated but rather than document all this for you I’ll just do literally anything else right now.
Lawl…that was a good way to get out I must remember that.
NFL viewership was down last season, too. Viewership is a poor metric to support your argument. That’s going to be heavily influenced by MLB decision to broadcast some games on Apple TV, blackout rules, cord cutting and a slew of other things. How many baseball games are on regular TV a week? How accessible is the sport to watch?
Baseball has made poor broadcasting decisions, and a pitch clock won’t change that.
I’m with the OP on this one. I hate the new rule changes. Watching a game, everything feels rushed. I’ve always enjoyed the drama of baseball, the strategy and the slower pace of it. The new rules make it feel like they’re just slinging the ball over the plate and seeing what happens.
I agree. But who is the pitch clock for? Fans of baseball would have watched baseball without the pitch clock. The revenue keeps growing. So no pitch clock the game grows but if the game starts to decline with the pitch clock what then?
OR
Is this part of Manford’s plan on appeasing to a Chinese audience? Recently reported in one of the WBC games I watched (I think China vs, Japan?) Steven Nelson made mention of the money and changes Rob Manford has made into the game to appease the Chinese market. Apparently a lot of money spent to get into the Chinese market.
Learn the topic before you post. Who on earth is “Manford?”
I love the changes. I always wanted this change, and this has actually been far better than I expected.
The Manfred man must wear a blindfold for the first 2 pitches of any even numbered extra inning after 12?
Cavemen players hate change. What else is new? Do they want kids off their lawn too?
Return tp the batter telling the pitcher where to throw the ball.
deGrom, yeah why should those actually playing the game have any say in what adjustments are needed? smh
Do you watch other sports? This is how all rule changes are made unless a PA has a legitimate safety lawsuit.
There are other sports???
Stop the 10th inning ghost runner. Make it the 12th.
Make it the 112th.
deGrom, I respect the opinion.
Some of my most memorable games have been extra innings. But judging by the fans heading to the parking lot and plummeting tv ratings I am in the minority.
Statistically we are both in the minority. Many of my favorite games have also been extra inning games.
I don’t believe you’re in the minority, but baseball purists maybe getting smaller in number. As far as I am concerned this is all about fast food baseball, the changes are way too extreme. Extra innings were the best, but in nearly every sport the changes that are being made have ruined some parts of it. When you get players objecting to pitch clocks that tells you everything you need to know, officials and others get to act unilaterally and dictate. Speeding the game up is ok, but at present the pitch clock time is too short.
This has all been done to satisfy who exactly, people that aren’t really invested in the game of baseball and want it to end quickly?
This is also about player health. Long games lead less sleep and less recovery time.
The players love the rule. Just as important, so do most fans. I’ve been to plenty of extra inning games. Most people just leave in the 10th. The ghost runner creates a more exciting conclusion.
A ghost runner scoring is like getting a participation trophy. You did the bare minimum but still got rewarded
Or they could’ve played hard enough to win it in nine.
The players love getting paid the same without having to work overtime. The fans like free baseball. How is this any different from being a salaried worker without overtime?
The players on the committee voted against the rule unanimously. Against, not for.
It’s too bad the employees (players) don’t get more say in what they do than the paying customers (fans). Quite a shame!
@Halo11Fan
Honestly, I’m old school and prefer games to be settled without the runner, however, since we’ve already make it clear they want shorter games and less extra innings games, I’d rather if MLB adopted what the Japanese league does and played until the 12th inning if it’s tied in the 9th. After the 12th, it’s declared a draw. They also have a limit of 3.5 hours per game, so if it took 3.5 hours to get to the 9th inning, it would end there in a draw. Much better than giving an instant runner on second. That’s little league baseball, not professional baseball.
Ties do NOT belong in baseball. Period.
@harryfrazeesucks
Nor do automatic runners on bases without earning them. Those runs don’t count in my mind. Period.
The players union and the analytic FO’s have removed both the integrity from the sport as well as the pace and overall skills needed to play the game.
I watch a lot of games on MLB.TV because I can watch 2 or 3 at once. Been well over 5 years since I went with someone to a park to spend 2-3 minutes at a time looking around while waiting to see a batter put a fair ball in play.
When the NBA put in the 24 second clock in the players hated it too. They wanted to stand around spread out and pass the ball to each other for a minute or two before they took a shot. If they were ahead late in the game they stalled for even more time. That sport would not exist today of a clock had not been put in.
The players don’t care about the fans or the product. Imagine if the workers at a store decided what products they would stock for consumers to buy as opposed to management doing studies to find out what consumers want. Actually. America is heading that way.
Agreed. The MLBPA couldn’t care less about the fans or the fan experience. The players believe the game exists so they can play it.
Stop making things up because you don’t like the Baseball players Union and the Front offices.
Basketball Players didn’t hate the 24 second clock. Players hated teams holding the ball. Teams didn’t just pass it around for a “minute or or two” they stalled for 40 minutes. Basketball had already lost teams and didn’t want to go defunct altogether, players didn’t want that either. Nobody wanted final scores of 19-18(Fort Wane Pistons vs. Minneapolis Lakers 1950).
Most stores can’t afford to do all of their own research. Imagine if management didn’t listen to employees tell them what their own customers want. Most stores use market reseach, this doesn’t necessarily show what their store needs.
The 24 second clock helps level the playing court in a timed game. Baseball is not timed and both teams have 27 outs to work with (the field is level).
diceandcubs3416;
I didn’t make anything up. I was alive, watched it happen and read books 50-60 years ago that detailed the inner working of the NBA.
Do you have any marketing experience? Most stores today DO do their own research. They may do it directly or via consultants. Marketing software to run on personal computers and even on smartphones is available. MicroStrategy has become one of the biggest companies in America selling software that is constantly updated with data showing trends in the marketplace. And it is affordable to people that work as consultants out of their homes. Heck, Amazon gives their customers statistics on which items are selling better than others.
MLB is not irrelevant. But the average fan has been fed up with 3-plus hour games for years now. I’ve written this here 3 times so far – go on YouTube and watch the replay of a MLB game from the late 50’s to mid 70’s – lots out there. Those games did not drag on and on because the pitchers and batters were ready for the next pitch. What MLB games have turned into the last 25-30 years is absolutely ridiculous. If the sport wasn’t so fundamentally wonderful the FO’s micromanaging every aspect of a game would have killed it off.
@diceandcubs34 Stop making things up because the MLBPA is a union fighting against the wealthy businessmen you hate!!!! rawr!
Agreed and haven’t been to a MLB game since 2017 at the latest and no plan on going back to that boring garbage.
Bro, you’ve been giving the MLB free rent in your head for way to long…time to move on!
But here you are commenting about the game of baseball.
You may want to get your OCD treated Samuel.
BaseballisLife;
I’ll mute you.
You know little.
First and foremost, all the time rules should be shelved for the playoffs.
Secondly, they can’t call time last second once a pitcher starts their wind up, pitch should come through ump calls it’s a ball on the way in, batter can still decide to swing or not. Someone is going to get hurt
Go look at the times of the World Series games of the early 70s.
Playoff games is where fans are added. Young fans don’t want to wait 1 minute between pitches.
I can’t get my son to watch baseball. Maybe this year I have a chance. Baseball needs these young fans.
Players are routine based and will carry the speed up play naturally in to the playoffs, but it can’t result in a deciding play in a critical game it’s ridiculous.
You mean like the Super Bowl this year?
I’d be shocked if this is called very often once players get use to it.
So then why enforce it in the playoffs?
Because players will take advantage.
Google rule 8.04. That’s been on the books for more than 1/2 a century. Umpires didn’t enforce it, players abused it, and it’s both their fault how we got here.
If the players can’t play smart and by the rules it doesn’t matter whether it is season or post season. Many pro sports games have ended on fouls, penalties or the time running out. Play smarter.
Eliminating the multiple throw overs later in the game to buy time for a reliever to get warmed up.
I mostly only watch playoffs since the regular season is irrelevant to me. I have no desire to watch 4 5 hour games. Should have brought in the clock 10 20 years ago.
The pitch timer has been in the rules for well over 50 years. They just didn’t enforce it. Google baseball rule 8.04.
The pitch clock is needed the MOST for post season. Those games are slooow. Nearly 4 hours!
How about the pitcher and batter get one violation per plate appearance/batter faced without penalty? At least something so plate appearances or innings don’t end on clock violations or at least so it almost never happens.
Overall, I don’t mind the pitch clock, but I would rather have it to where someone’s at bat ends because of a violation. If you add in one violation for the batter and pitcher each plate appearance, it almost will never happen.
Few points I want to make:
>I am not against the pitch clock, but I hate seeing an at bat end because of a violation. Maybe have it to where you get one violation per plate appearance/batter faced, or add like 3 seconds in 3-ball/2-strike counts.
>The extra inning runner rule wouldn’t be so bad if it went into effect in like the 12th inning.
>the shift rule is what it is. Teams are still finding ways to shift. I’m sorry Joey Gallo, but you gotta learn how to go the other way. They’re not even putting a guy in left field now because the new rules still allow you to move the outfielders around.
I think if an at bat ends in a walk or a K because of a violation then it is simply a massive error on the player’s part, period. Games and rules change, players need to change with them. The game was shrinking because of the glacial slogging pace and the league saw that and decided it had to change. Maybe teams should fine players who take violations or something but the three commercial break at bat has got to die.
I don’t disagree, and guys who have to readjust every piece of equipment or take forever even to get set is burning, but I still think there should be margin for error in this new rule. I don’t think adding one violation per player per face-off, or adding three extra seconds with a 2-strike/3-ball count is gonna slow the game down a ton.
Mlb, if you make the time longer they will just take longer. They don’t need any set amount of time but are going to take as much as given. Or as little as possible to get an advantage over the batter/pitcher
Why not fine players who violate the clock and then return the money evenly to all the players such that those who are above average get a bonus and those who aren’t lose money. It shouldn’t be a high % of their salary, but make it 100-500 dollars. That isn’t really saving owners money or taking away money from players as a whole.
Get RID of the stupid extra inning rule!!!
Everybody wants it besides a small minority of fans.
“Everybody” as in about 20% of the casual fans? Get real! This isn’t baseball it’s like artificial flavored ice saying it’s better than Baskin Robbins ice cream!!
Everybody that matters Fox Espn Rsn. Players and owners want it. Most fans want it. Don’t believe me check tv ratings and see how they decline after each extra inning. Only people who don’t want it are the minority of irrelevant fans.
@YourDreamGM
Earned runs it’s called. Putting a ghost on 2nd is unearned, it’s total bs.
They could have played 3 extra innings and then in the 13th put the runner on 2nd as a tie breaker. If you don’t use it in the post season then you shouldn’t use it in the regular season. 2nd and 3rd wildcards are weak as water as well, it’s just about revenue.
You are wrong. And your opinion is wrong.
MLB TR took a poll a few years ago on if fans liked or disliked the extra inning runner rule. It was about an 80%:20% dislike to like ratio. That was almost years ago now, but I can’t imagine opinions have drastically changed to the point where the small minority is the people who dislike now. At the most, I’d say the split is 67/33 dislike to like, maybe 70/30.
Mlbtr is a awful sample size. I would think the crowd here leans hardcore and old. You seem younger but majority of younger crowd don’t go to a website comment section or poll.
Fans are at the bottom of owners concerns. They want their investment (players) to stay healthy. Want to keep their travel schedule. Players don’t want to work “overtime”. Most importantly tv executives don’t want long games.
They don’t have to worry about the minority of fans going anywhere. You want to sit there for 5 hours watching guys play with rosin bags and velcro. You have nothing else to do except watch mlb.
Yes its a small sample size, and could change based on where you put the poll, but it’s not as if MLbTR isn’t a popular site for baseball news. But I still doubt the people who are against it are in the minority here. Even among my peers (I am 22 and most of my friends are also in their early-20s) also dislike the Rule. Again, small sample size and all, but it’s not just older fans who dislike the Rule. In general, between here, Twitter, and Instagram, I’ve seen more dislike for the Rule than support for it.
Me personally, I don’t like the Rule and I’d rather have it like it was before. But it is what it is. Disliking the Rule doesn’t make you irrelevant or put you in the minority.
I love extra baseball. I don’t need a poll though to know most people don’t like it. Been to many games that had tens of thousands of fans in the 10th inning and by the time the game was over was down to a few thousand or hundreds. Tv ratings show the same decline. No need for polls. And polls could say people hate the rule. When those people have other plans or realize they have work school the next day they ignore how they voted in the online poll.
Honestly I love all of the rule changes with the exception of the runner in extras but I’m not really so opposed to it that it’s worth an argument. I think plenty of people feel the way I do as well and I’ve been a fan for 40 years.
I love the extra inning rule. It makes it exciting.
Never a comment about the 2 minutes plus between innings. Of course MLB needs that time for 4 or 5 commercials. Maybe cut that down to a minute and a half and give those seconds back to the at bats..
It’s the anticipation of play and scoring that has been lost. It was a better game in the 70s than it is today.
Brooklyn1953;
They’ve done that mickey mouse stuff before…..
Then one batter in the next half-inning hits one more foul ball and that wipes out the savings.
The endless foul balls are the problem…..and not just for time of the game.
Those 2-3 minutes generate a lot of $. They don’t bother me. I just use the bathroom or have sex.
So, I guess I’d still have a minute to kill …
HEYOOOOOOOOO
Seems like Dream could comply with the pitch clock when having sex.
Remove ads and then slash player salaries. That is a win-win for fans. If only those players and owners would agree to this…
I hear what you are saying, but how long to do you think it should take to get all 9 players on the field and for the pitcher to take 6 or so warm up pitches? 2 minutes seems reasonable.
Lol in no way is that true.
Replace the ASG with the WBC. Manfred goes full Adam Silver and shows him how to a mid-season tournament works.
Yes, Adam Silver!.
That’s a Commissioner that has his league under control……
A 30 team league and 20 of the teams make the post-season.
The NBA is making money hand over fist and is arguably the most popular it’s ever been. You can credit David Stern and even the game itself for its popularity if you want, but if Adam Silver wasn’t competent, the league wouldn’t be doing so well.
rct;
The NBA isn’t even a sport anymore. It’s an entertainment vehicle for players to market their brand. Teams seldom even run set plays anymore. It fuels on controversy same as ESPN does……which loves to cover the NBA. It’s the Kardashians of pro sports. I saw one guy recently call it; “a chick sport for guys”.
The NBA is unwatchable in-person and on TV. The big boys are basically wrapped in bubble wrap until the playoffs because they’re billionaires investment properties.
It’s sad when a family saves the money it takes to go to an NBA game live and their teams star or favorite isn’t playing that series. Not because he’s hurt, just because the game doesn’t really matter.
Back when I was a kid, whenever we went to the Forum to see the Showtime Lakers, unless someone was badly injured, traded or dead, the show was on. Until Chicky said, “the butter is hard and the Jello is jiggling…” Every starter was running that court!
The NBA is a mess and this last Allstar game was horrible. If they try and play a game like they did this year again, nobody will be watching that mess again!
Lots of people watch the all star game or they wouldn’t have it.
Not sure why it’s necessary to cry about the NBA (which is objectively fun to watch) on a hardline MLB page but go ahead.
Objectively? No. It’s not fun to watch at all.
Wait until the owners see the sale of Beer, peanuts, dot dogs, and all the other food items take a nose dive with the fans out of the stadium 1/2 hour sooner. I wouldn’t mind having that money in my pocket.
TV $ is much more.
Games ending a 1/2 hour earlier makes it easier for families to attend weekday games, they’ll make up the “lost” money there.
They weren’t buying 15$ beers and 13$ hotdogs anyway believe me, I am the “families” you’re talking about. My kids can’t sit through seven innings at the pace it was going and we simply go to far fewer games because of it. The pace literally shrinks the fan base and the rule changes are making it possible to bring people back it’s a godsend.
Agree 100%
Boo. Change nothing and let it play out.
Rules should add ability to call for an intentional shave or haircut.
Manfreds continued quest to ruin the game rolls on
The NL was formed nearly 150 years ago, with the AL formed nearly 125 years ago. We are now wanting to put time limits on pitchers and batters to bring more interest to the game? Seriously? The game has survived several generations without time limits because genuine fans GET the game and they GET the strategy. Of todays fans and kids don’t get it, the way the game has been played for SOOOO long, then they need to take their ADD medicine and go play their video games because they are not the one’s that should be watching to begin with. Sorry for the harsh reality check if you or your kid are taking ADD meds, but there’s nothing wrong with the game. What’s wrong, are the fans watching the game that have no patience.
There has pitch time limits for more than half a century. Look up rule 8.04.
Since these rules have be$n on the books for decades, I’m sure you now support them.
Seriously? Prior to this spring training, that rule was enforced how often? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Go back to your Etch a Sketch drawing board and try again.
Never was enforced, and that why it became a problem.
Gosh, where else in society are we seeing such problems.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
TravisKelce87;
As I noted below, go on Your Tube and watch teh replay of ta game from the late 50’s to the mid-70’s. Those games moved along, and fans had no trouble concentrating.
Huh? If the games moved along from the 50s to the 1970s, of course, no one had trouble concentrating on the games. That’s irrelevant. We’re talking about the Manfred games of today that might last three hours where people have a hard time concentrating for whatever reason. If they have a hard time, concentrating, they should watch something else. If they don’t enjoy a three hour baseball game, watch something else.
And when the game slowly dies you’ll be sitting on your porch describing the great home run chase of 2035 to your disinterested grandson who’s certain you have dementia as baseball was relegated to ESPN7 “the ball Jack” fifteen years ago as crowds dwindled into the low thousands and four and a half hour games were played by failed weightlifters and track athletes just trying to pay the rent.
It’s a good sign that they’re willing to make some minor changes, and I’m sure they’ll look at more significant changes in the off season if need be. MLB used to change its rules frequently during the early days, which led to this great game, but it’s become stagnant over time. I love the game, and because I love the game, I’m willing to see these new changes in action, as long as they’re open to making changes. They clearly are.
Just hate how MLB is possibly going to make changes hypothetically without players input, and with 10 days to go. Feels like it could be rushed, and unenforceable changes due too confusion
Every sport changes rules without the PA.
I dont understand the angst about the pitch clock.
Games used to generally run 2 hrs to 2:45. A handful ran less than 2 hours and a handful ran over 3 hours.
There is no need for a pitcher to dawdle around the mound or batters to constantly adjust batting gloves.
What we’ve watched for the past few decades…stalling, stalling, stalling…isn’t ‘real’ baseball, as some suggest.
Heck, Gaylord Perry and Jim Palmer could do all kinds of things to a baseball, and still not need a pitch clock. Get the ball, add some grease or cut it on a belt buckle, then throw the darn thing. It didn’t take them half a minute.
I like the pitch clock, not so much the elimination of the shift. The elimination of the shift rewards batters who are fundamentally unsound.
Instead of the shift punishing batters, batters should have been punishing the shift. Rod Carew may have batted .400 if they had shifted on him.
Nomar Garciaparra was one of the first to undo and re-do his gloves between each swing. Then everyone did and then started adjusting everything else at the plate, including their pretty necklaces.
Mike Hargrove did it before Nomar,
Maybe some fans enjoy watching players adjust their below the belt area. Not that there’s anything wrong with it.
CATS44;
Bill Veeck was complaining about not enforcing the 30 second rule to throw a pitch in the 50’s and 60’s.
This time between pitches and the endless foul balls to run the pitch count up and get the pitcher out of the game has been ridiculous. All an outgrowth over Moneyball thinking OBP was more important then a hitter actually hitting he ball fair.
“I like the pitch clock, not so much the elimination of the shift. The elimination of the shift rewards batters who are fundamentally unsound.”
Actually, it rewards fielders that are not able to cover much ground.
I’m thinking the one rule scherzer wants and I agree with. a player steps out, has a few seconds to step in. pitcher is already in set motion. once I. the box, pitcher can release ball. in all fairness, I do agree with Max’s reasoning. and he’s part of the committee, so I bet he’s gonna make that a point
I don’t understand people who are against the pitch clock. In 1970 the average time of a game was 2:30, in 1985 it was 2:45, In 2000 it was up to 3:20 and last year it came in just under 3:45.
“Old school baseball” isn’t what we’ve been seeing. This whole posturing and waiting a minute between pitches is not only boring, it’s not the way the game has been played for the majority of its existence. The almost 4 hour game is NEW, so, no, you’re not a baseball purist for hating the pitch clock, you’re just complaining about change.
The time of game has been rapidly trending upwards, and I’d love to hear
Aaron, the pitch clock has been a rule for decades. It just wasn’t enforced. Google rule 8.04
Aaron Johnson;
Get on YouTube and watch replays of games from the late 50’s right through the mid-70’s.
A viewer could concentrate on the game because it kept moving along. TV didn’t have to show the same endless replays over and over as there was so much time between pitches to fill in.
The difference is so stark it’s ridiculous.
What needs to be scrapped is the limit of pickoff attempts to first. It’s a pitcher’s job to limit the running game. How can this be done when he can’t throw over? I mean what are we saving here? 2- throws per game? But the impact that a huge lead has for a base stealer is huge.
I agree its like a punishment for an aggressive base runner.
I don’t find weak pick off moves entertaining. If you waste my time 3 times and don’t get the runner they should get a free base. You get 3 attempts per each ab I believe. At worst each runner.
I don’t understand people who are against the pitch clock. In 1970 the average time of a game was 2:30, in 1985 it was 2:45, In 2000 it was up to 3:20 and last year it came in just under 3:45.
“Old school baseball” isn’t what we’ve been seeing. This whole posturing and waiting a minute between pitches is not only boring, it’s not the way the game has been played for the majority of its existence. The almost 4 hour game is NEW, so, no, you’re not a baseball purist for hating the pitch clock, you’re just complaining about change.
The time of game has been rapidly trending upwards for a long time now, and I’d love to hear someone complaining suggest another effective solution, because I for one don’t want to see 5 hour baseball games in 2030. No one does. It’s a big part of the reason baseballs popularity has been declining and getting its butt kicked by the NFL. And if you really love baseball, you should realize that, whether you like it or not, that matters.
I don’t understand people posting something twice and liking their own comment twice.
Cute. You win then I guess, since that’s what you’re looking for.
I wish I could upvote this 200 times.
But, the unmanly Manfred Man is quite messed up from a statistics accountability standpoint. That run is neither earned nor unearned.
Not a fan of the clock at all. It’s going to get pitchers hurt. They’re telling pitchers, that the routines and mechanics they’ve used for years must be sped up, and your effort on the mound will be more taxing. They’re gonna drop like popflies..
It’s telling pitchers to pitch with the kind of speed we see at high school and college and minor league levels. Only at the MLB level does a pitcher have to move his hat 17 different ways while the batter performs a bizarre ritual of bat taps on the bases.
With pitch com 15 seconds is plenty. No need to rush mechanics. Velocity and duration will drop for some. Runners on base you get more time. You can step off or soft toss one over 2 times with non base stealing threats. You can and they will find ways to take a rest.
I would like to see the pitch clock and batter clock be turned off for the last batter of the game. Would suck if game ended with bases loaded and 2 outs down one run for it to end on a pitch clock.
LOL
sadosfan;
How do you know who the last batter of the game is until he makes the out?
Not me. I want to see the world series end on a clock violation. Rules are rules.
Samuel, it’s a paradox. If there is two strikes on the batter, if the umpire enforces the rule he knows it’s the last batter of the game, therefore if he doesn’t enforce the rule it may not be the last out of the game, and he not following the rules.
A pitch clock isn’t going to get more people to watch baseball, you either like the untimed nature of the game or you don’t. Oh and bring back the shift.
No but it might keep fewer people who give it a try to not leave.
I like the untimed nature of the game. Pitchers varying time between pitches and batters varying time between pitches is a strategy to me.
And let the defense shift based on a hitters hitting history. Cool.
A suggestion. Make every regular season series 4 games. Two of the 4 played old school, the other 2 with all these changes. Playoffs change every other game.
I like it Jeff. But let’s just let the home team pick the eta of baseball which obviously comes with matching jerseys
The new rules are ridiculous. The MLB is rewarding hitters that didn’t learn to hit to all fields or bunt by eliminating the shift. The shift would have been gone within two years if hitters just took the ball the other way. Heck, Big Papi had two bunt singles dropping it down the 3rd base line on the shift. Now imagine if he kept doing it, 15, 20, 25 times in a row. Of course there’s the benefit of giving him just one base instead of four, but to have him on base every time with someone like Man Ram behind him would be scary.
Bigger bases?! Or teams could just start running again. The stolen base success rate in 1985 was 69%. Last year it was 68%. Sure, runners don’t run as frequently so they are a little more selective on when they run, but not much has changed in the numbers to suggest that the decline in stolen bases is just a shift in philosophy.
Games were 2:36 on average in 1985, and well over 3 hours last year. What’s the reasons for the increased length? Let’s start with 5.8 more pitching changes per game, which immediately explains pretty much every minute of the di. Maybe we jump to guys striking out 200+ times a year instead of putting the ball into play. I could go on
Call me an old guy who misses 1980’s small ball if you want, but this is the equivalent of a participant’s medal. “Oh, you can’t hit to the opposite field, don’t worry, here, have a medal.”
Ted Williams couldn’t go the other way when pitchers were not breaking 90s.
It’s hard enough to have one swing. You people kill me. Oh, just go the other way. When people say that, I know they never played at a high level.
All good points. It’s all about $ though and the new changes make the game more watchable to younger fans. They aren’t concerned about fans closer to expiration. They won’t be around much longer and likely aren’t going to stop watching after all these years.
greg1;
What you’re bringing up is due to the changes in how MLB FO’s want their teams to play.
The move has been to light bats that break constantly, but they allow for bat speed. Batters are reward for running up pitch counts, even if they K (they get high 5’s in the dugout if they see 9-12 pitches). In turn pitchers have to put more and more spin on the ball to get movement as well as throw harder to get the 3rd strike before the pitch count runs up as they are pulled from the game when they hit pitch limits. In the 80’s starting pitchers routinely threw 200 innings a year, often over 250, and some over 300. Today a starting pitcher that throws 170-180 innings a year if he remains healthy is in the minority…and today no rotations have their 5 (or 6) starters make all their starts. The pitchers are always getting injured, and TJ surgeries have gone from an epidemic to a normal part of the game.
When I was growing up following MLB a GM would be fired by an owner for ruining their pitchers. Owners saw their players as investments, and wanted them healthy to play for years. Today all teams use over 30 pitchers on their roster …some over 40. Most teams use 22-24 position players. And both those numbers keep going up each few years. Fans of a team don’t even know who’s on the roster if they’re busy during the season for a few days living their lives. They come back to watch a game and players they like are suddenly gone, and they have no idea where the new players came from.
It is not unreasonable for a fan to expect a pitcher to throw 3 pitches a minute.
Formalizing how umpires should address PitchCom issues? I’ve barely watched spring training, and I’ve twice seen umps add a ball to the count while pitcher and catcher try to get it to work.
Catcher should be able to get a timeout to replace the device a limited amount of times.
A minor change needs to be defining exactly what needs to be done for that 8 seconds for the batter to be in the box and “ready” interpreted as when the player looks at the pitcher. That leaves too much judgement for the likes of angel Hernandez to completely mess up. Just make it when they are standing in the box and call it a day.
Or just at 8 seconds the pitcher can throw . Get in the box to hit or oh well.
They should also have the season begin May 1st and end August 31st, and the playoffs should be completely over September 30th. So tiresome and boring having major league baseball 9 months of the year and too many games- and it’s laughable seeing 3rd tier NFL games smash MLB in ratings. MLB is culturally irrelevant and therefore should not try to compete with the NFL in any way, shape of form and should get out of the way by the end of September. The argument could easily be made for by the end of August.
Meant 3rd tier NFL games smash MLB playoff games in ratings.
NFL would love to play 182 game schedule. I can’t believe so many people watch regular season games in most sports. Maybe college football. I don’t think a shorter season would create many more fans. Definitely wouldn’t make more $.
In the beigining…it’s was what is was it was the Fats vs the Skinnies….
Who won?
The beer vendor and a good time was had by all…..
They ne
Only change needed is to can Manfred.
Now is the best time as any for Gallo to learn how to go the other way. Teams aren’t even putting a guy in LF against him now, opting to put the left fielder in shallow right field against him. He’s not slow either. He might even be able to leg out a few inside the parkers on deep left fields if he goes the other way a few times.
This generations a joke they could sit through 3 hour movies with blue people but can’t sit through a 3 hour live game…make it make sense.
I’m not watching that movie 162 times a year
One of the best games of baseball that might be seen in 2023 was Mexico v Japan, no pitch clocks used, it didn’t make one bit of difference, maybe only to the passing by or casual fan it did. If you’re at a game or watching on TV or wherever and you’re asking “when is this going to end”, you’re not a true baseball fan in the first place.
I don’t mind the pitch clock. I don’t mind the batter’s clock. Only being able to throw to a base twice though for a pickoff I don’t like it. Also, I hate extra inning rules with the ghost runner in the Top of the 10th. Let them play the 10th and 11th if necessary normal rules if still tied implement the “ghost” in the top of the 12th. Just my humble opinion.
I have enjoyed the faster pace of play. It is working well so hopefully it does not get watered down.
Why would they give the players a bigger voice in these perennial changes they make? They don’t want to. MLB is hell bent on making the game a more marketable product which is ruining it. QUIT MESSING WITH THE GAME
The pace of the games has been fantastic, the extra stolen bases have been exciting, and seeing hits up the middle again was something I didn’t realize how much I’d missed. Games change, sports change, fanbases change. It’s time the players change too. The NFL implements huge rule changes seemingly annually and it’s still by miles the biggest thing going. MLB needs to adapt to the fans or it will dwindle to MLS status before we know it.
I loved this comment until the MLS slander!
Just went to a Quakes game with my friend who has season tickets, believe me I do not slander MLS I just realize that very few Americans care about it.
I love game action, but my favorite part of the entertainment experience has to be when the batter steps out after every pitch to adjust his batting gloves, jersey, helmet, and cup. Then to watch the pitcher step off and throw over to first multiple times—all before the next pitch—that’s entertainment at its best.
A good business will listen to its customers and hold that input in higher esteem than the comfort of their employees. Both must happen, but you can’t let the employees have everything at the expense of losing customers.
PLEASE don’t make the clock longer. It’s great and already not that rushed. The old rule, which stopped being enforced, was 12 seconds *to release the ball*. It’s now 15-20 seconds to “start your motion”.
Baseball would be foolish to go back to more standing around.
Manfred doesn’t care what players think and he’s made that clear. Changing the time from 3 hours to 2 1/2 doesn’t matter much. A football game is 60 minutes and take 3 1/2 hours to play. And a lot of the 60 minutes of time isn’t action time either, it’s dead time or running the clock out. They don’t have a problem. Baseball isn’t going to attract new fans, they’re just going to alienate the ones they have.
It matters to me and to anyone younger than 30, lol
And yet, FB does have its own clock. Should they get rid of the clock in FB, or is it essential to keep the pace of the game?
Evolve or die. It’s weird how people who love the game so much don’t seem to care about it’s popularity after they have departed.
I love the pitch clock and hope they don’t change it.
I do hope that they ban the outfield shift.
What does it n matter? Kids are being educated to hate everything American and play soccer……
lol ok
Insane take.
“The players on the Competition Committee voted unanimously against the implementation of the pitch clock and the shift limit last summer. That was little more than a symbolic gesture, as the four players on the committee are outnumbered by the six league appointees (plus an umpire). That gives MLB essential unilateral control for changes to the on-field rules — which was mutually agreed upon by MLB and the Players Association during the last round of collective bargaining — and MLB pushed through the clock and shift ban over the objections of the players on the committee.”
Sounds about right for Manfred. Pretend to give players a voice and do what you want anyway.
IMO: adding 10-15 seconds to the pitch/batter clock in 2023 then maybe set it back to what it is now in 2024 when people are more used to it. Remove the throw over limit. Pitcher throws twice then runners have an advantage. I’m not a pitcher but wouldn’t the faster pace make it more difficult for some pitchers to go longer?
remove the extra innings runner at second or change it to first. a sac bunt and fly wins the game. I think they also have more room for the pitch clock currently in extras? If not.. do that too.
but yeah just my opinion.
10-15 seconds?!? Literally double it. No thank you
IMO: 15 to me is too low of a requirement. When this was talked about during cba i think the average time between pitches was around 20 Seconds over all.. that doesn’t sound horrible with the new headset things less time flashing signals…. eh okay maybe i can see why you like 15 secs is good.
still too fast for me. i like the down time. all the hocus pocus of rules doesn’t seem worth the 20 minutes.
One time i will like it is on the west coast games that don’t start till 10est . i won’t be up in till 2am watching a game haha.
I suppose modern tech, i got pause and rewind, if i’m in the minority, well i still got that.
I’m really not going to buy much about the players take on the pitch clock. Most of them have now played with it their entire amatuer career. Time to be all on board selling this game.
I went to 3 ST games this year, and honestly I didn’t hate the pitch clock as much as I thought I would. I don’t think a single game I was at lasted longer than 3 hours.
I think the shift ban ruins defensive strategy, the bigger bases are silly, and I will never understand the ghost runner on 2nd. Pitch clock is fine, if worst comes to worst maybe make it 25 and 20.
I love the build up of tension between pitches when the game is in the late innings and the lead is on the line. Especially in the playoffs. Hurrying that up is going to cause mistakes and less than perfect play. I say, keep the clock for the first seven innings but after that, turn the clock off. Keep everything else: the three batter rule, the no-shift rule. Faster walks and strikeouts doesnt make the game more interesting. We need more hits and manufactured runs.
As an “old guy” here… I think it’s wonderful how this thread has turned into screaming at the neighborhood kids about not playing on our lawns.
Honestly, I have strong feelings like a lot of you about the pitch clock, shift ban and bases but they aren’t hills I’m going to die on today. I get that the sport I love is slipping away in popularity. The answers just aren’t simple in how to solve it though.
Seems like the what just happened w Cohen money changing the whole landscape of free agency is much more impactful than the silly changes.
Let’s reassess after a year of this clowning… Maybe it’ll grow on me.