The Athletics will not carry Cristian Pache on the team’s Opening Day roster, manager Mark Kotsay announced late last night (link via Matt Kawahara of the San Francisco Chronicle). Because he’s out of minor league options, Pache will need to be traded or placed on outright waivers. The A’s will likely designate him for assignment prior to Opening Day, which would remove Pache from the 40-man roster and buy them a few days to explore possible trades. Outfielders Brent Rooker and Conner Capel will be on the roster, Kotsay added.
Effectively moving on from Pache after one year in the organization is a clearly suboptimal outcome for the A’s, who acquired the slick-fielding center fielder as one of the main pieces (alongside headliner Shea Langeliers) in the trade that sent Matt Olson to Atlanta. The 24-year-old appeared in 91 games for the A’s last year but posted an anemic .166/.218/.241 batting line through 260 plate appearances, exhausting his final minor league option year in the process. Things didn’t go much better in Triple-A, evidenced by a tepid .248/.298/.389 slash (68 wRC+) in an extremely hitter-friendly Las Vegas environment.
That lack of minor league options, lack of production, and the Athletics’ offseason acquisition of speedster Esteury Ruiz sealed Pache’s fate, it seems. Pache has had a productive showing in spring training, hitting .302/.362/.419 in 47 plate appearances, but the A’s already informed Ruiz last week that he’ll make the roster. It’s possible they’re confident in their ability to deal Pache for a return of modest value, but if the eventual transaction is a waiver placement, it’ll be a rather damning outcome for the team, given that Pache was a pivotal part of the prospect return in the A’s latest fire sale.
Pache is still just 24 years old, and he remains an elite defender (5 Defensive Runs Saved, 8 Outs Above Average in just 646 innings in 2022). As recently as the 2020-21 offseason he was considered among the 20 best prospects in the sport. However, his bat hasn’t developed at all, leaving the A’s in a tough spot this spring. The dilemma wasn’t exactly unforeseeable, though, given Pache’s prior struggles in Atlanta and the fact that he had only one option year remaining at the time of the trade.
Kotsay candidly acknowledged back in February that Pache could be showcasing himself for the other 29 teams in baseball this spring, and it appears that’s indeed been the case. The best-case scenario for the A’s would be to find a trade partner, and Kotsay indicated to Kawahara last night that the front office is exploring the possibility. Speculatively speaking, both the Rockies and Marlins have been in search of help at in center for awhile now, though Miami moved Jazz Chisholm Jr. to the outfield this year in hopes of patching that longstanding need. Rebuilding clubs with injured center fielders like the Royals (Drew Waters) and Reds (Nick Senzel) are also logical fits. It’s also possible certain contending clubs could look at Pache’s glove and see him as a valuable fourth outfielder, even if the bat never comes around.
As far as Oakland is concerned, it seems clear now that Ruiz will get the everyday nod in center field, while Ramon Laureano lines up in right field. The left-handed-hitting Capel and right-handed-hitting Rooker could form a platoon in left field, and many of Oakland’s infielders (Tony Kemp, Seth Brown, Aledmys Diaz) have experience in the outfield as well.
The returns for the Chapman and Olson trades from last year aren’t looking too good for the A’s. The Murphy trade also could have been better but Ruiz looks intriguing.
Oh sorry, I mean wow
Nice save! 🙂
Yeah there hasn’t been one of those major-league-star-for-package-of-prospects trades that has obviously worked out for the team acquiring the prospects in years. Teams know their own prospects too well now, especially the high budget, analytically driven teams that tend to make those trades. If I’m a rebuilding team I’m VERY reluctant to take the guys that are suggested from one of those teams.
Do the suggesting….
Doesn’t take a genius to see that a guy who never hit in any minor league level wouldn’t hit in the majors, I agree, seems like you see teams offloading guys they soured on, and if good teams are letting them go, there’s usually a reason because the Braves scouting and development is great.
Pache hit for average and drew a few walks in the low minors. He hit a few homers one year, and it seems he got away from contact and tried to sell out for power. He doesn’t need to hit dingers to be a major leaguer. If he’d concentrate on just getting on base, his defense will make him valuable.
“Well, you can run like Hays, but you hit like ____. With your speed, you should be hitting the ball on the ground and be legging them out. Every time I see you hit one in the air, you owe me 20 push-ups.”
-Lou Brown
I’m deeply moved.
Every time you play one off your hips, you owe me 40 sit-ups
Yeah just look at how bad the Detroit Tigers got burned on every star player trade return when Al Avila was GM.
All the teams have extensive inside information on players now. It’s almost to the point to if I were a GM looking to trade somebody, I would ask for cash at least for part of my return. These teams are not going to be fleeced anymore for their talent.
Post MLB draft, Tigers farm system rank from Bleacher Report.
2014 – 30th. Dead last.
2015 – 30th. Dead last.- Al Avila promoted to GM end of year.
2016 – 25th.
2017 – 17th.
2018 – 11th.
2019 – 9th.
2020 – 6th.
2021 – 20th.
2022 – 13th.
Detroit was the worst team in baseball and had the worst talent in the minors as well. Avila saw the Tigers’ farm system grow into one of the more respected during his tenure.
When it comes to the trades, it’s not like the Tigers were burning down their roster like Miami. The Verlander and JD Martinez trades went poorly, but the Tigers won the Avila trade by a landslide getting several good years from Candelario. The Tigers also got Alex Lange for Castellanos. Not a good record, but it’s hardly a big sample size of significant moves.
The worst move the Tigers made was also one they almost had to make, which was extending Miggy. The St. Louis Cardinals couldn’t have come out smelling better after watching Pujols sign with LA, but I just don’t know many franchises who’d allow that type of player to walk. The collapse of Eduardo Rodriguez and Javier Baez is probably what got him fired IMHO. The Tigers needed to take a major step forward in performance on field last year and it didn’t happen.
Avila was just awful. Other teams have got good prospects who turned into good mlb players.
@martras It’s hard to let go of a superstar but he wasn’t a life long Tiger world series champion like Pujols. Can’t give cards too much credit. They made him a strong offer he easily could have accepted. Won’t trash DET either. There is value in having that star even if they no longer hit like one.
I’ve defended Avila in the past, but since he took over in 2016, his drafts picks were #9, #18, #1, #5, #1, #3, and #12.
It feels like their farm should be rated a lot better than #13.
Funny how when your major league team does poorly your farm system tends to get a little better…oh, that’s right; high draft picks.
@joe lmao
Yeah. Definitely.
I don’t have an opinion on Avila one way or another really, but the Tigers were more like an expansion team than an established MLB team in 2016. The cupboard was totally bare in the minors.
mlb.com/prospects/2015/tigers/
Looking at the Tigers’ top prospects Avila inherited is rough. A couple journeymen from the list, but that’s about it. When a GM inherits the worst farm system in baseball and one of the highest payrolls with a bunch of high paid aging veterans, it’s a bad situation. Throw in an ownership change resulting in a tightening of the wallet and Avila had little chance to succeed in the short term. The next couple years will reveal a lot about Avila’s work. If the Tigers bounce back, the criticism should be softened in my opinion.
You think Pujols was a lot more important to the Cardinals than Cabrera was to the Tigers? Cabrera had been with Detroit for 8 years starting at age 25, winning 2 MVPs and getting to a World Series in 2012. Cabrera’s popularity can’t be overstated. He was the top selling jersey from the Tigers and arguably the fans’ favorite player.
The Cardinals had won their World Series’ already. Tigers fans were still starving for their win. I’d wager Detroit had just as much reason to keep Cabrera as St Louis did to keep Pujols. The big difference is there was no need to sign Cabrera like they did in 2014 since Miggy was under contract for 2 more years. Still, I don’t see a likely way Cabrera would have been allowed to walk so the extension was probably inevitable.
Takes about 3-5 years for draft picks to make it to the majors, depending on how great they are and what age they were drafted at.
2016 – MLB Matt Manning, probable long term starter with high rotation upside.
2017 – MLB Alex Faedo, iffy MLB caliber
2018 – MLB Casey Mize, probable long term starter with high rotation upside.
2019 – MLB Riley Greene, probably long term starting center fielder with All Star potential.
Seriously… this is what you’re complaining about? Every single one of Avila’s first round picks with more than 2 years of MiLB experience made MLB and 3 of the 4 are likely long term starting players. If those players do make it long term, that track record is exceptional.
Please jump on the Braves posts and remind some Braves fans of this, as they keep clucking that ATL got robbed by decimating their system, despite the fact that if Pache were patrolling CF in ATL, Harris’s emergence may not have happened (at least, like it did). Most likely Harris would be, at the very least, a COF with Pache (but Pache would have to hit his weight to stick in ATL (or anywhere else)).
@RunDMC Braves fans will be in here for sure. If a prospect doesn’t amount to anything they have zero value. No one should know your prospects better than you. If you have doubts, trade them while you can.
Langaliers looks legit, and they should get something in exchange for Pache. I know Ruiz is forcing their hand, but this feels like a sell-low moment for Pache.
I’d like to see the RS make some inquiries.
They won’t get anything for Pache. They’ll likely just waive him. In fact he might make it through waivers. Everyone’s got a CF. Maybe not as good defensively as Pache, but he can’t hit at all and I can’t imagine who would trade for him. He’s Billy Hamilton without the stolen bases.
Or the swag. Billy’s got quite the fan base: in the stands, clubhouse, press box. “Billy! Billy! Billy!”
Someone should want him. Pirates have a hard time letting a former highly rated prospect get through waivers. Their 40 man isn’t awful anymore though. Maybe KC. Anybody really. Just takes 1 person to say I think we can make him better.
Traded to a team without a designated pinch runner for cash or a PTBNL. As a five year old, I was traded by my T-ball coach for a player to be born later.
The Matt Olson trade was fine. The Matt Chapman trade was absolutely horrific and their franchise should be ashamed for agreeing to it.
Wow. Pache was supposed to be a star for a’s fans everywhere to enjoy (both of ‘em)!!!
I warned the A’s. Been saying for about half a decade Pache is a failed prospect. Obviously their is a lot to like but you need to fix his bat. Out developing ATL isn’t a easy task. Next team would need to out develop ATL and OAK.
OAK couldn’t have done much better with the Olson trade. A well into the top 100 catching prospect alone was worth it. And they got a pitcher the Braves just took in the 1st round. Add in another pitcher and Pache. Prospects sometimes just don’t work out. Chapman trade was good for them as well. I thought Murphy trade was really weak. All of them can still work out. Only been a year. Hang in their A’s fans, both of you.
Murphy trade?
They have a couple shots to get something there. The Chapman deal only gave them Hoglund. The rest of those guys are useless.
Olson trade still looks fine, only one of them has to stick to make it worth 2 years of Olson and Pache was never really the leading candidate. Murphy one still looks pretty bad, long term control of a defensive catcher that can also hit for a very weak return.
So, looks like the Braves made the right choice there.
Yea, not a single Braves fan should have been upset that he was a part of the deal. He clearly looked overmatched offensively making the jump to the show.
The right choice was sign Freeman, and use the prospect capital they traded as part of another deal.
Very easy to say what the right choice is so early in a deal and when making alternate trade scenarios that only exist hypothetically. It’s early, but I love Olson — and he wants to be in ATL. You could also argue that it was a package deal, in that, he most likely helped recruit Murphy to sign an extension (after not having played a game).
They offered Freeman a higher AAV than LA so stop with that garbage narrative. Freeman lied about wanting to be in Atl for life and went elsewhere. The Braves used that capital wisely to get another awesome first baseman.
@DTD/ATL — I love that Freeman is charging NO INTEREST on the LAD’s deferred money, which would easily be a few million dollars right there. I hardly think they would have been as interested had he not done that. Rays fans should be asking why they reportedly had the best deal — and were empty handed.
I can’t understand why Braves fans think they should have kept Freeman and even still love the guy. He was a fantastic all time great, seemed like a nice guy, won a title there. Then he held out for every cent. Gave team a take it or leave it not negotiating demand. I mean only siths deal in absolutes. Not suggesting he should be hated or not liked. But to love a d defend the guy I dunno. Personally I loved the Olson trade. Freddie looked like he was about to cry days weeks months later. Wish I could have been with him the day of the Olson trade so I could have licked up those sweet yummy tears.
I still think if there hadn’t been a lockout then AA and Freddie would have worked something out. I also think AA didn’t really want Freddie, and preferred Olson because he’s four years younger. I think he was relieved when Freddie said no.
@bhambrave – I don’t doubt AA wanted FF back, at a price. At >$150M, sure. At the reported $170-180M — drop us a postcard. Same could be said for Dansby, but the reported amount was no where close to FF’s. Would AA had valued FF if Olson (ATL native, younger, LH power hitter) been available? IMHO: yes. Olson was the perfect replacement and fateful that he was available, as much as the idea of Freeman re-signing with ATL.
On Pache absolutely. He had absolutely zero value to them.
Other prospects tbd. Braves know what they are doing so fans should trust them until they show maybe they don’t.
Man, gotta feel extra bad to once be a top prospect, and now still only 24 and can’t make the Oakland A’s roster.
Imagine how bad he feels if ATL offered him an extension and he turned it down!
Pache is just raw… He needs more developing at AAA level… Let’s hope Ruiz does a better job for the young A’s…
Everyone has said that since he came up to the bigs years ago. He’s at a point now that the A’s were truly his opportunity to develop. No pressure to win, no huge fan base. I mean, that’s the best minor league development against the big boys
Pache is just raw…
=====================
I agree. The dude was in AA at age 19 and in AAA at age 20. He might’ve been rushed. And his stats aren’t awful. Once he returned in August, he had 14/4 K/W with one HR in 40 ABs. With growth and experience, he might evolve into a .240/15 HR, GG CF.
His stats ARE awful… Really, really awful.
He has a career 25 OPS+ and a -1.4 career bWAR. His offense is about as bad as it gets.
Pache simply can’t hit worth a crap.
He needs needed a complete rebuild. He can stay in AAA for the next decade. Isn’t going to matter unless he changes.
Wowza
Three minutes late.
I know that Pache can’t hit his way out of a paper bag, but I’d still rather carry him than Rooker. Pache is younger, and if I’m not mistaken he’s a better defender as well
Pache is a negative WAR player despite his defense being good. You’re correct about Rooker’s defense being worse, it’s honestly pretty rough in the corners. Rooker still has the potential to produce value and most of his advanced stats show he’s been unlucky at the MLB level.
Rockies already have a right handed center fielder who’s a good fielder (not as good as Pache) and a solid hitter (which Pache is not) in Yonathan Daza. Not sure why they’d be in the market. Maybe for Esteven Florial, who can platoon.
maybe because the rockies like guys that can’t it.
it?
did you mean fit, knit, quit, sit, spit, or hit?
Or some other word which rhymes with what the Rockies don’t know for.
But they also inexplicably LOVE their own guys and never make trades.
They’re afraid of making mistakes.
I never saw Pache as a big part of the trade. The centerpiece was Langeliers.
The big get was Langeliers, but Pache was the highest-rated prospect, FWIW. ATL used that prospect-ranking to their benefit by putting lipstick on a pig and parading him in front of Billy Beane.
Beane hasn’t been making A’s baseball decisions for years. David Forst is the executive responsible for the exodus of their star players.
If anyone saw Pache as a top prospect they shouldn’t be evaluating talent.
That’s the way I saw it, too. I couldn’t have cared less that they dealt Pache. At best, he always looked to be a defensive replacement/4th OF type. Langeliers was the player where I was like, man, what are the Braves doing?! Keep the young catcher and spend the money on Freeman.
They acquired Murphy though, solving the trading away of all the catching depth they had. It worked out well.
Everyone always says how awful a prospect was AFTER he flops. But at the time 95% of posters on here were talking about Pache as if he was going to be a multi-time All Star. Seriously, go back 3-4 years and read some of the comments on Braves stories here on this site. It really is a lot of laughs.
I think most Braves fans had already written off Pache at the time of the trade. The angst was about Langeliers leaving.
@hiflew So true. I been trashed for it many times over the years for not believing in him.
I can honestly say I called Pache early. I was all-in on giving Waters the CF job and felt he was the better prospect. I still believe in Waters, but I can admit that so far I’ve been wrong about Waters.
Rockies or marlins as the article mentions seem like fair enough places to land if a trade is coming. Otherwise, watch a contender (much like the Braves) swipe him for late inning defense upgrade. He could play lf for us and pitch run late in games. We got guys that effectively could do the same thing but hit better, but I’d give him the edge overall
Hard to keep a guy just to play late innings defense. Playoffs maybe. Does he even run at an elite level? I don’t catch much A’s baseball.
Pache looking to set the market for Florial.
@StudWinfield- Nah let’s keep Florial as a 4th outfielder. They could sign either Calhoun or Ortega, when one of them are let go in a few hours hopefully. I don’t want to see Florial play well with the A’s, haven’t they ripped us off enough? Smh
Why would the A’s want Florial when they just DFA’d Pache? Very similar players, both with serious contact issues.
Should’ve traded Olson to the Yankees. A’s always seem to rip off the Yankees
Yes, absolutely, no more trades with Oakland!!!
I think NY was pleased with Rizzo.
Feel like Cincy might be a trade partner.
Yeah definitely. Could see the White Sox too, as a 4th OF.
I agree. Senzel can’t stay on the field and Benson is not a great defender. Neither is Senzel for that matter, he is obviously an infielder trying to play outfield.
That would make sense if the Yankees didn’t already have Anthony Rizzo under contract.
Out of minor league options, so any acquiring team likely is a non-contender who can tolerate the lack of offense as they attempt to develop him on the MLB level. He’s a year short of entering the Greg Allen phase when there’s always an interested team happy to roster him…in AAA.
Preller should dump Engel and grab Pache and let him join the Dominican Express. Can be Grish’s back up
Makes sense, all field no bat for Pache. Pache spice was always the coldest girl of the crew. Give me Sporty or Baby anytime for the clubhouse
Brent Rooker…?
I don’t get it
I think it’s fair to wonder what the A’s have been doing for the last two years. I really don’t even think this is an argument that can only be made in hindsight either, because most of these deals looked questionable at the time they were agreed to. Pache was always going to have a major league floor because of his defense, but even in the minors his offense was more decent than good.
Maybe Langeliers becomes something. Maybe Muller becomes a decent starter. Maybe Ruiz becomes a solid leadoff man. But considering they traded Chapman, Olson, and Murphy and didn’t really get any guaranteed long-term pieces out of it, it kind of feels like they set themselves back a while.
I agree with you. It seems like they under-leveraged the additional years of control that they held on the players they traded away.
Yeah it’s a shame. I’m not closing the book on any of the guys from those trades becoming contributors (Langeliers in particular can still be a solid player), but the fact that all these trades have aged so badly within the last year or so is pretty bad.
They traded a few all stars (plus Bassitt) and within such a short amount of time they basically have a few lottery tickets to show for it.
Montas trade worked out. Camden says they got all the Yankees best prospects including 1 of the 10 best in all of baseball.
I thought they did well with most their trades. When you go for ceiling and quantity you are going to miss a lot. Murphy trade was weak return. I liked some of the players but it wasn’t enough value.
Once again the A’s show they are horrible at trading players. They sent away multiple all-stars for a starting catcher (their strongest position in the minors) a CF whose main claim is he’s fast, and a few back of the rotation pitchers. If you are rebuilding, why are 3/4 of your starting Infielders veterans over 30 on short contracts? So you can flip them for more prospects that YOU WONT DEVELOP AND PLAY? Idiotic in my opinion
Very true. I think part of the Reason for the Older infielders is that Nick Allen and Kevin Smith are looking like 4A Players. Jordan Diaz is looking like a DH and Logan Davidson and Robert Puason are looking like Busts.
They only have Zack Gelof ready to fill one of the Infield Holes and perhaps Tyler Soderstrom, if he is moved from Catcher to 1st Base full time. Their other recent Draft pick, Max Muncy, strikes out like 40% of the time. He’s got a longgg ways to go.
Pache was the worst or next to worst piece of the return. His failure is insignificant. Back of the rotation pitchers are important and they got some with mid or even a chance better potential.
Prospect status goes a long ways. Even when the top end prospects look really bad in the majors for a couple years teams still take them in trade for their stars. If he was bad in Atl and bad in Oakland why would any team give up any value in a trade for him? His best case scenario this year is be 6th OF minor league insurance depth in case two or more of their major league players get hurt
You get openings you need to fill until someone more promising becomes a option.
If I am the Orioles, I trade for this man and put him in the valley at OPACY aka LF
Why would you want a corner outfielder with no bat? That’s not a winning move.
@DTD
Elias, has basically the same team as last year, that is NOT a winning move
They’re still graduating young players from the minors too. Pache is a throwing in the towel move.
The Orioles have plenty of young outfielders close to the majors that are way better than Pache, even when factoring in his defense
@Michael
There NO ONE, in the entire Orioles organization (at least as far I know) that has the glove, the speed, the arm, that Pache has
No One!!!!
We had Brett Phillips. He’s a silver slugger compared to Pache. There’s your ceiling for him.
I’m fine w taking a pass.
Blah!!!!
For non-Orioles fans. please explain OPACY.
Orioles Park at Camden Yards (OPACY)
If KC really wants a younger version of JBJ, here he is. Cut JBJ and you got the roster spot. Same player, but younger with more control and more upside. Probably cheaper too.
I agree
The A’s sure do not have a strong success rate of trading their stars to Atlanta. Thank you Oakland for Tim Hudson, Matt Olson and Sean Murphy!
Olson trade looking better already for Atlanta. I remember reading a article online about a year ago this time of Acuna and Pache reporting to spring training in matching “glitzy” gold colored SUV’s. Then I believe Pache was traded to Oakland a day later. Lol.
He’ll get traded to the Rays and become a healthy version of Byron Buxton.
Or the Pirates to be the next Fowler Alford.
If they needed a speedy guy who can play center field, then they just would have given Travis Swaggerty a roster spot.
And lose all that player control? I don’t think so. They aren’t that stupid. And if they like Pache, Swaggerty is irrelevant. Would it be awful to have 2 speedy guys who can play CF? I won’t be pounding the table for them to get him. Just was saying.
I think the Pirates would rather roll the dice on Swags before giving up sny real prospect capita to get Pache.
Pache is not the typical position prospect the A’s target as a key piece in a trade: heavy on physical tools but very light on performance with the bat. Add his age (not super young) and used up options and it really looks like what should have been an avoidable blunder.
I never seen him as a key piece. More like the last piece. I would have kept him longer than a year if I thought he was a key piece.
You can argue Pache was 4th in importance (between him and Estes) of the prospects they got but they did give him the CF job and a lot of opportunity to make it his. That is not what you do with a throw in. Given his big league track record with the Braves I’d have passed on him for a prospect, regardless of position, with a longer time line.
Never said he was a throw in. Just not a key piece. If you aren’t going to rebuild his swing you need to give him at abs and evaluate him because he can’t stick in the 40 man forever. Not like Oakland was trying to win and had lots of other options.
Braves were lucky to get anyone to take Pache. Can’t hit a lick.
Maybe the A’s should trade with other teams, looks like the Braves have been getting the best of them in deals???
Maybe Bobby Dalbec for Pache and a Pitcher?
This is only half. Wait till the trade completely falls apart.
At this point, if you are getting him, you’re best hope is Michael A. Taylor 2.0.
Pache could be a 3 win player if he managed to hit for a 90 wrc+ or so but if it is a 60 or 70 wrc+ it is just not playable even with his defense.
He basically is below average at contact, plate discipline and game power.
However I don’t understand the As either.why did they trade for him if they don’t play him even with a solid spring?
Obviously he was never going to keep up that pace but what where the As expecting?
Pache to the Yankees