At some point last year, the Red Sox and right-hander Tanner Houck had some talks about an extension, though it doesn’t seem much progress was made. “Conversations, but nothing came of it,” Houck told Chris Cotillo of MassLive. “We’re pretty happy with where we’re at right now. There’s no reason to rush into anything.”
Houck, 27 in June, has pitched in the past three major league seasons, oscillating between the rotation and the bullpen but generally getting good results either way. Overall, he’s tossed 146 innings with a 3.02 ERA, striking out 27.6% of batters faced, walking 8.7% of them and getting grounders at a 49.3% clip. Getting into the splits, he has a 3.22 ERA as a starter and 2.68 as a reliever. He’s actually racked up more strikeouts out of the rotation, a 28.5% rate compared to a 25.9% rate out of the bullpen. But his .300 BABIP as a starter is a bit above his .274 mark as a reliever, and his 70.5% strand rate out of the rotation is a few ticks below his 77.3% mark from the ’pen.
In addition to that strong body of work, Houck also comes with the pedigree of being a first round pick, selected 24th overall in 2017. He is currently between one and two years of MLB service time, meaning he’s still shy of qualifying for arbitration and isn’t slated for free agency until after the 2027 season, when he’ll be 31. There would be some risk in committing significant dollars to Houck since he fought lingering back issues last year and ultimately required surgery, but all pitchers generally have some injury flags on their profiles and there’s usually a point at which clubs are willing to take the risk.
It’s unknown exactly what kind of contract structures were floated, but the talks didn’t advance enough for the Sox to put forth a formal offer. “We never really even got that far,” Houck said. “(It was) a conversation. We talked here and there.”
It’s possible that the Red Sox were looking at Houck the same way they viewed Garrett Whitlock. A Rule 5 pick of the Yankees, Whitlock made his MLB debut in 2021 with 73 1/3 innings out of the Boston bullpen with a 1.96 ERA. Going into 2022, there was some consideration of returning Whitlock to the rotation since he had spent much of his minor league time there. In April of last year, before the campaign really got going, the two sides agreed on an $18.75MM extension that covered his remaining years of control, while also potentially giving the Sox control over two free agent years via club options. If Whitlock eventually emerges as a viable rotation candidate, that will turn into a bargain for the club, given the salaries typically earned by free agent starters. But it was also understandable why Whitlock would want to lock in that guaranteed money, since he was a relative late bloomer, just about to turn 26 at that time.
Houck is in a relatively similar position, showing plenty of potential but still not fully established and with huge paydays still a few years away. It doesn’t seem as though the ship has sailed on an extension, with Houck expressing openness. “If the opportunity on both sides is right, I’d be willing to, but both sides have to feel comfortable with an agreement,” he said. “I think it really depends on the individual person,” he elaborated. “If you’re willing to bet on yourself and believe that you can sign that bigger contract, then take the shot, in my opinion, if you’re a betting man. If you’re not and you like the security, it’s perfectly fine. There’s nothing wrong with it either way, but as an individual, I think you have to be okay with it.”
For 2023, Houck seems to have a blocked path to the rotation for now, though there will be many variables. Chris Sale and James Paxton could be at the front of the rotation, though neither has pitched much in the past three years due to injury. Corey Kluber is coming off a healthy season with the Rays but had three injury-marred years prior to that. Nick Pivetta has been the most reliable of the bunch though his status is now a little murky as he’s dropping out of the World Baseball Classic, per Cotillo, as he recently had COVID for a third time and isn’t recovering as hoped. Then there’s Whitlock and his nine career starts and younger guys like Brayan Bello and Brandon Walter.
The club has said they plan to stretch Houck out this spring but perhaps move him into bullpen role if he doesn’t have a spot in the rotation by Opening Day. Given all the uncertainty in the rotation, it wouldn’t be a huge surprise to see him get pencilled in as the starter at some point this year. “It’s not my decision. I’d love to start; that’s what I’ve done my whole career,” Houck recently told Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe. “But I’ve got to help the team win in whatever way possible.”
kiddhoff
Wow!
Rick Wilkins
Seriously! This is a huge. “At some point last year” they talked about an extension, but it didn’t pan out? I’m not sure how this wasn’t a huge story…at some point last year too. This a high drama for the Sawx!
MLB-1971
Houck does not become a free agent for a long time! He will still be a Red Sox player 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027! (Unless the Red Sox decide to trade him).
Houck can gamble that he stays healthy, and he can wait for higher pay if he becomes a starter, but again they have 5 years to work with.
deweybelongsinthehall
Said all the right things but in reality us fans don’t know the specifics on his health, which is the only concern I have. Given his power stuff, I wouldn’t chance things and to me he’s the team’s closer of the future.
GASoxFan
It probably didnt get out because it would perpetuate the ‘chaim is cheap’ mantra. They got a steal on Whitlock when you balance production vs salary vs FA prices. But houck isn’t taking $18m for the next 5 seasons, and wisely so IMO.
Had it gotten to the money offered, or why wasn’t more money offered part of the conversation, people would just further the wanting to not pay to lock up quality… so… yep.
deweybelongsinthehall
GA. Houck also has significant injury concerns. How many his age have already had back surgery? It is a consideration.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Agreed, and that’s one reason why I believe 2-3 years before FA eligibility is the best time to discuss longterm extensions. With 5 more years of team control, doesn’t seem necessary to lock him up now.
PulledaBloom
Dewey – Lets put the injury concerns into perspective. Verdugo had a bunch of fractures in his back several years ago but they were small and many. He didn’t have surgery and has been fine so far.
Houck had a disc issue. Disc repair is common place in 2023. There should be no long term effects from his surgery, just a lot less pain. Nothing has been mentioned related to chronic problems like they were with Verdugo.
Houck has the most talent of the young starting pitchers and we should expect him to be the #1 SP in a couple of years but Cora is manager so that likely won’t happen. He always does the wrong thing as proven by Sale, Price and now Houck.
Were you aware that Cora knew about Houck’s disc issue and had him try to play through it? Good old Cora, destroying Red Sox pitchers one at a time!!
kingken67
No Houck doesn’t have the most talent of any young starting pitcher for the Sox. That distinction goes to guys like Bello or Mata who already have command of at least 3 pitches. Houck is still trying to find that reliable 3rd pitch to allow him to remain a starter.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fractured are not the same and one look at the films might be all that is needed. Surgery before 30 though is a red flag. It doesn’t have to be important but can be a concern. There’s a difference between an acute injury that films suggest will heal without major concerns and a potentially chronic issue that usually gets worse with age. Again, we’re not doctors and have no access to the records. The team and his agent obviously do
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, it depends on price point and as Houck himself said, his risk aversion ability. Personally I’d try to compromise but that’s easy for me to say.
deweybelongsinthehall
Pulled, why do you always blame Cora? I’m no fan but Cora obviously got direction from team doctors, trainers and in today’s world, I’d also suspect Houck and his agent as well. I love Houck’s stuff but without another pitch, I can see hitters catching up to him the more they see him. I’d still prefer him to learn from Jansen and take over closing where I think he can be dominant. In today’s game, a great closer should be worth more than a number 2 or 3 starter (I don’t see him being a consistent #1 throwing 175 innings year after year).
jmi1950
Dewey – Trolls always find a way to say Cora, Bloom, Henry are terrible. That is how you know they are trolls. They know more and are NEVER wrong. That is why I ignore them and advise others to do the same. Once KD17 was ignored he left. I advise the same for GA & Pulled a; otherwise instead of a site for discussion it becomes a forum for the trolls to dominate with their diatribes.
deweybelongsinthehall
Thanks JMI. I may not agree with them on various issues but I consider both passionate, not trolls. My only complaint with Pulled is the length of his posts. I deliberately don’t use a microphone so as to keep it shorter than otherwise.
acell10
it’s pretty obvious that KD17 and Pulled are the same person.
deweybelongsinthehall
Lol. it never hit me.
B dog 351
Jmi . Seriously it’s someone’s opinion. What constitutes someone being a troll. I have been following the Sox for 40 years .Watch most them on TV or Radio . I don’t like Bloom or Cora. I never liked Cora as a player. I thought he was an overrated utility guy when he played. Does this make me a troll because I don’t agree with the way the organization is going?
jmi1950
Most of the best mgrs were not stars and many weren’t even in MLB> Ted Williams was a great player but a terrible mgr .I saw my 1st game at Fenway in 1956. Last yr in May I posted that if the Sox did not show in the 14 gms vs TB/NYY in June that they could compete they should trade JD, Evo, Bogey (unless they were sure they could sign him) Wacha etc and rebuild. That was my opinion.
What makes these posters trolls is that they always repeat the same BS in an effort to hijack all discussion.
Once you decide Cora and Bloom are bad you can’t be objective.
This yr I was the 1st to mention how much this off season reminded me of 2013. I am willing to give this team a chance to over perform.
PulledaBloom
King – The numbers don’t lie. You are confusing upside potential with results.
PulledaBloom
Dewey – Who is accountable if not the man who chooses to take the input and make the decision? Cora is the person who played him hurt. Disc issues are very painful. There have been several in my family and so speaking from experience, the manager is the guy who players count on to do what’s best for the player and the team in the long run. That’s why I blame Cora. The doctors will say he won’t damage it further, which is true. The trainers will say we can give him drugs to lessen the pain. The player and his agent might argue that the pain can be ignored. In the end, one guy puts him in the line-up and is the ultimate responsible party if something goes wrong like it did with Sale.
As far as Houck goes, if you ask me whether Boston would have been better off with Clemens as a closer rather than a starter whether it’s the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s or NOW the answer is always SP. Same for Houck.
Great closers are far easier to develop than great SPs.
PulledaBloom
aceil10 and JoeBrady are the same person. Who cares. They both don’t have a clue what they are talking about.
PulledaBloom
Jmi1950 – Most managers didn’t actively participate in the largest cheating scandal of all time. I won’t ever forgive him for that abuse of baseball.
You translate that disdain for Cora to being a troll. That’s pure ignorance on your part.
Nobody hijacks discussions. Do you struggle with people who disagree with you? Is that hijacking a discussion? hahahaha
You are so full of it. “once you decide Cora and Bloom are bad you can’t be objective”? That’s utter nonsense. Each decision is evaluated by the people on this website and the decision maker is given a thumbs up or down. It’s not my fault everyone says thumbs down to actions by Bloom and Cora and the Ownership. They are all entitled to their opinion and trolls like you who simply attack others for not agreeing with your paid for opinions are the bad guys. You are so trite.
This isn’t at all like 2013 and clearly you don’t get why 50 people told you it wasn’t. This team is depleted and has no core like the 2013 did. Complimentary players were added to stars in 2013 and the team blossomed. Boston now only has Devers and Sale as stars and the complimentary players aren’t very good according to their baseball stat history. Grow up and stop attacking people who don’t agree with you.
acell10
KD17 the reason you think Joe and I are the same person (besides the fact that you’re clearly delusional and a have mountain of issues I won’t get into) is because we actually make sense and follow baseball something you haven’t done since the early 80s.
Also I don’t need to make alt accounts or change my screen name because I don’t participate in cowardly behavior like that.
GASoxFan
I’m also guilty of longer posts. I never did Twitter and dislike social media so perhaps I’m not ‘trained’ to be used to the brevity concept.
I admit to having had a name change, but, it was open and the other one abandoned. It doesn’t make sense to be ‘atlsoxfan’ when I left metro Atlanta behind.
As for the other criticisms, once in a while I do say bloom moves are OK, or, that I’m indifferent. And when I have criticisms, whether as to player selection, deal itself, or focusing on the wrong areas I voice them. It is 100% possible to be impartial about a personal opinion on a move when you dislike the guy making it. Some may have problems with it, I don’t feel I do as there have been moved this offseason I said I was OK with.
If you’ve been reading in the media lately, there was a story about 29 GMs being interviewed about offseason deals. Of the 29, 14 identified bloom signings as being worst of the offseason. Are they impartial, or, biased, because they too criticize boston/bloom on a range of subjects this offseason, including a majority saying Bogey was irreplaceable?
Many beat writers have been criticizing boston, Henry, and bloom, including that ’email’ full of revisionist history by Henry. Are they now biased, and, trolls?
B dog 351
Obviously most mlb managers historically were not super stars . I been watching for a minute too . Not as long as you . I was at my first game in 85 and plenty more since play off games ect. None of that matters . All I said was I never liked Cora as a player or manager and I am not impressed by Bloom. I am still going root for the team. I enjoy reading everyone’s comments and opinions on this site . It makes it interesting. If everyone on here agreed about everything it would be boring.
B dog 351
Jmi1950 . No kidding most mlb managers were not superstars. I think anyone that watches baseball knows that . My point was I didn’t like Cora as a player and surely don’t like him as a manager. To put it mildly I am not impressed with Bloom . I am still going root for Sox . I think it’s interesting read everyone’s opinions. If everyone agreed on this site it would be pretty boring. If that makes me troll I ll take it .
PulledaBloom
Dewey – I have a tendency to expand my responses to provide complete justification for my opinions. Also, I think of this as a discussion not a texting exercise so the single sentence response seldom fits when discussing a topic. I prefer phone conversations because of the level of detail that can be discussed easily versus texting. Likewise, I prefer to have in depth discussions with people who are real baseball fans and have knowledge of the game and the industry..
You and I don’t see things the same way much and I am fine with that. I get frustrated that you believe too much in what the front office does but I write it off to your personality. I think you are conflict adverse compared to me and that there is no “one right way to be”..
I don’t believe you and I have to see things the same way and as long as my disagreeing doesn’t lead to insults, I’m good with your varying opinions.
The whole TROLL concept is about attacking others not discussing baseball. I find that I counter punch a lot but I try very hard to not personally attack people, I attack the comments from a factual perspective. That angers those who think their opinions without facts to back them are enough to win a discussion.
Like I said, I have no issue with you and I appreciate your comments above. I can’t promise shorter comments because so much needs to be proved when substantiating an opinion.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – Excellent post as usual. Anybody who doesn’t realize how Bloom and the Red Sox have been viewed this offseason is clearly delusional. The common refrain I’ve heard from impartial baseball analysts, writers and commentators, and the front offices of other teams, has been “What are the Red Sox doing? What is their plan? Why are they acting like a low revenue team?”.
All the questioning is well justified, obviously.
Fever Pitch Guy
B dog – Excellent post, I agree 100%.
Fever Pitch Guy
Pulled – Great response, I appreciate your long posts. You at least attempt to support everything you say, I respect that.
Fever Pitch Guy
Pulled – Several people have said the same thing. They always post around the same time, and basically post the same thing quite often.
A couple months ago they both wrote that Theo never had Thanksgiving Dinner with Schilling. What are the odds of two different people having the same ridiculously wrong belief?
acell10
you’re still beating that drum FPG? You keep bringing up this made up story about Schilling and thanksgiving that never happened. I never wrote anything about Schilling and thanksgiving no matter how badly you want that to be true. I don’t know if Joe did but stop dragging me into that delusion.
In terms of two people having such ridiculously wrong beliefs you and KD are the only ones who seem to think that Joe and I are the same person (not numerous people) so I guess it’s not as uncommon as you think.
Fever Pitch Guy
acel – Disagree with “JoeBrady” at least once, that would help.
I share beliefs on Bloom, Henry and Cora with GASox and Pulled, but I also disagree with them at times.
acell10
so all that I have to do is disagree with Joe and that will be all the evidence I need to provide to you? I’m sure that goalpost would change even if I pointed out the numerous times we have.
While we are asking for proof can you find the several people who claim Joe and are the same person?
JoeBrady
What makes these posters trolls is that they always repeat the same BS in an effort to hijack all discussion.
============================
I define trolls as those people that:
1-Will hate every move.
2-Will spend hours denigrating AA depth pickups.
3-Will hate an acquisition before even knowing what the cost is.
4-Will continually bring up players unrelated to the post.
JoeBrady
aceil10 and JoeBrady are the same person.
==========================
Classic troll move.
JoeBrady
because we actually make sense
===========================
I’ve said that before. A lot of people that use statistic will have similar posts, since they are using the same statistics. Folks posting from their hearts, and not their heads, will always sound different since they avoid using statistics.
JoeBrady
A couple months ago they both wrote that Theo never had Thanksgiving Dinner with Schilling.
==========================
Lying-another classic troll move.
JoeBrady
I never wrote anything about Schilling and thanksgiving
==============================
I’ve not only never posted about Schilling and thanksgiving, I have never even thought about it. And I have no idea what that discussion is all about. Why would I give a rat’s a$$ about whether Schilling and/or Theo had dinner together?
Fever is starting to unravel.
JoeBrady
Why would anyone track whether you and me disagree about anything? Does Fever actually track this? Don’t take this personally, but I have not the foggiest idea of what moves you approved of or disapproved of. I don’t even know if I respond to you regularly.
Fever is absolutely gone.
acell10
I wish there was a sarcasm font so I could express how deeply offended I am that you don’t track my comments. haha
I don’t keep track of whether I agree or disagree or what comments people responded to that I have/vice versa with anyone but given his nonsensical ramblings I doubt anything satisfy him.
JoeBrady
Honestly, I don’t keep track of my own posts. I will remember roughly how I felt about a given move. I like the Goodrum acquisition. I like the Alfaro acquisition a lot. If Wong goes down, I think Alfaro can supply a 1 WAR sort-side platoon.
I’ll remember that If someone says I predicted 1.2, I won’t care since it would be pretty silly to expect to be right all the time. But if someone claims that I said he was going to be a 3 WAR catcher, I’ll know they are lying.
That why the Schilling Thanksgiving claim was so insane. I don’t care about the minutiae and never have, even when we acquired him. I don’t know if they had dinner, or what they ate, or what their beverage of choice was.
That was just one crazy rant by Fever.
Fever Pitch Guy
JoeAcel – Sorry to interrupt your private conversation with yourself, but anybody with at least a decent amount of intelligence would notice strange patterns and remember them solely through memory.
Take an IQ test sometime, you’ll understand better.
Fever Pitch Guy
JoeAcel – Your doubling down on denying knowledge of the Theo Thanksgiving discussion just might end up biting you in the ass. You better hope I don’t find your posts on it, because I do have a good sense as to where they are posted.
JoeBrady
Of course you won’t find them.
And before you lied about it, you should’ve done some research. Even if I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you thought I said it, you still should’ve done the research.
Further, when I call someone out, I do it right away, and generally quote what they said. You just threw some bullschitt lie in there hoping I wouldn’t come back to this thread.
FenwayFanatic
Why can’t we just stop failing
mcmillankmm
Still have him for 5 more years
FenwayFanatic
We just need to get something done
mlb1225
Why does something need to get done right now though, is what he’s saying. He’s under control for a handful of more years. There’s no rush in getting Houck extended.
JoeBrady
We just need to get something done
=======================
So it doesn’t matter what it is that gets done, so long as something gets done?
FenwayFanatic
I feel its a repeat of missed opportunities with Bogaerts leaving, Heaney and Eflin turning down deals for more money, and the low morale of the fanbase. Even though the Devers signing was big, I feel the team needs more
JoeBrady
1-I’m not sure how Heaney & Eflin are related to Houck.
2-I’m not sure how extending someone that is currently a middle inning guy is going to impact the fan base.
3-What kind of extension did you have in mind? He will be 32 after is control years are used up. I really don’t even understand what you’d be looking for. Are you looking for a contract that takes him thru his control years, plus maybe 3 years?
That would be an 8-year contract for someone with a bad back.
PulledaBloom
Fenway – Ignore JB’s nonsense. You are 100% correct.
Houck should be offered an extension after the 2024 season when he will be heading into his 3 ARB years. That way Boston can see how he fits in the future for two more years and if he does as well as he has, they need to lock him up for his 3 ARB years and at least 3 more. That would take him to 34.
FYI…. JB he doesn’t have a bad back he had a disc issue fixed. A common surgery that has an extremely high success rate. Stop with your BS and let the facts be known.
deweybelongsinthehall
Pulled. Any time you cut into the back of a 25 year old, there has to be concern. Not everyone recovers the same.
JoeBrady
A common surgery that has an extremely high success rate. Stop with your BS and let the facts be known.
=======================
You are delusional if you think you know anything about his surgery. You don’t know Houck. You haven’t seen his MRIs. You haven’t spoken to his doctor.
I continue to be amused by the posters that think they can talk intelligently about someone else’s health.
jmi1950
Joe– say your breath. The only solution to a troll is to ignorne them.
PulledaBloom
Dewey – Family experience on the exact same surgery suggests you are grossly exaggerating the surgery. I’ve seen disc repair change people’s lives. The pain is immense and then it’s gone. The flexibility of the person grows after surgery. It’s a real positive thing that he got it fixed now instead of it impacting him for years to come.
The person that cuts my hair had it done in mid December and was back at work standing all day a month later. Couldn’t stop talking about how great it was to not have the constant pain and how much better her daily life is thanks to the surgery. I’ve known people who have had this surgery dating back to the late 70s and not one has had a negative comment after the surgery. All feel like they have a new lease on life.
Could something have gone terribly wrong during his surgery? Maybe but that didn’t happen and now it’s time for him to play pain free. To me that is incredibly positive and nobody has mentioned a degenerative disease he might have so I simply don’t understand your negative perspective. To me, the Verdugo surgery was much more speculative for the future due to the number of fractures and the possibility for that happening in the future. Disc repair is a normal part of life by comparison.
PulledaBloom
JoeBrady – Take a drama class!!! hahaha You have no idea what you are talking about once again.
Read some journals, talk to some doctors and get back to me on how you must know the specifics of routine disc surgery to know the danger level.
Joe, for a guy with so little intellect you sure do take condescending attitudes far more often than one would expect.
PulledaBloom
jmi1950 – Trolls only talk about others. 99% of my comments related to baseball issues. Defending myself against trolls like you and JoeBrady and a few of the others who have been dressed down by my comments is just part of what you get when participating in public forums with a few ignorant people.
FenwayFanatic
I feel like the Devers deal was the bare minimum
MLB-1971
Jmi1950- “…. The only solution to a troll is to ignorne them.”…ignore them, yes, but I prefer muting them as it saves time I do not want to waste on them. At above’s count 102 comments and I have 52 muted lol, lol.
JoeBrady
you sure do take condescending attitudes far more often than one would expect.
==============================
It only comes across as condescension based on your lack of knowledge about baseball. I’m guessing that this started when I made fun of your 65-win prediction, and continues to this date. And likely will continue so long as you make idiotic posts.
CravenMoorehead
I wouldn’t call winning 4 World Series trophies in the last 20 years “failing”, especially after the franchise experienced an 86 year long championship drought. Just saying.
PulledaBloom
Craven – The 15 years from 2004 until 2018 was EXTREMELY successful and rivals almost every other team’s best steaks in the history of baseball except the Yankees before 1963.
That’s why what ownership and Bloom did hurts so much. Fans like me paid the price for nearly 50 years and finally got some relief and one day after Mookie called the owners racist, they decided to blow the whole thing up and brought in Barney Fife to shoot himself in the foot for nearly half a decade.
The organization is failing miserably and has been since they fired Dombrowski. Cora is a big factor in their failure and he was a big negative when they won. Both he and Bloom need to be gone sooner rather than later to allow this team to stop failing.
Clepto_
Dont worry, the 90 losses this season will help you forget the failed extension.
DCartrow
Were there extensive talks about an extension and if so have they extended into this year?
miltpappas
Chaim Bloom: Extensions aren’t my bag.
dbdmack
Rafael Devers: I disagree.
PulledaBloom
dbdmack – Interesting signing because Bloom wanted Devers gone because he was a DD guy and he doesn’t like long contracts but ownership still wants to build a long term relationship with the Dominican Republic baseball programs so they grossly over-paid Devers. I wouldn’t be shocked to find out some of that money is being passed through to the DR baseball academy.
Extensions haven’t been Bloom’s bag and this one appears to have been forced on him.
dbdmack
First time I’ve read he wanted Devers gone and I highly doubt that just because DD signed him. I don’t get an impression of pettiness for Chaim. . Sox are fully in bed with the DR. If they wanted to pass money on, they could just donate it.
kingken67
Make up your mind on the Devers deal. At first you bashed it because you claimed it was an overpay for someone who was going to move to DH in a couple of years. Now you claim it was something Bloom was forced into doing. Decide which line you’re going with here because you can’t stick with both. Or better yet just go away and get a clue and don’t come back until you have a better handle on the whole situation.
PulledaBloom
dbdmack – I’m sure they do just donate it, whether directly or indirectly.
So you haven’t noticed that Bloom has removed nearly every player that was brought to Boston by Dombrowski? Seriously?
Have you ever heard of the concept that an new manager wants to bring in his own staff so he can take full credit for what they accomplish? It’s the same thing except it’s baseball. Unlike DD who built on what Cherington left him, Bloom has erased nearly all resemblances of DD’s Championship team.
PulledaBloom
King – Are you in high school? Your reading comprehension is lacking severely!! Poop public school systems I guess..
The two points I’ve made are not mutually exclusive. It’s a bad deal for Boston and will haunt future GMs and I believe ownership forced it on Bloom after he let go Mookie, Price, Bogaerts, JD, Vazquez and the rest of the 2018 team. Ownership was getting so much bad press they reacted much like some of their Cherington moves that cost the organization for half a decade. The Devers deal is a terrible deal for the Red Sox and it’s not one I believe Bloom wanted to make since it allows people to say the main reason for any success in the future is Devers who was there when Bloom arrived.
Are you really so dumb that you can’t parse statements into concepts and distinguish the difference between what two comments mean?
I’m not going away any time soon. So why not educate yourself about baseball and then come back and address the adults discussing baseball at that time?
acell10
Devers wasn’t a DD signing and was never a “DD” guy. He signed while Cherrington was in charge of baseball Ops in October of 2013 a full five years before DD was hired.
Fever Pitch Guy
acel – Not coincidentally, “JoeBrady” made the same false statement.
Dombrowski joined the Red Sox August 18, 2015.
The only other “person” we have seen claim Dombrowski was hired in 2018 is “JoeBrady”.
acell10
ok Sherlock great detective work? you’re really bad at trying to mask the point by adding delusional subterfuge. I made a mistake in saying he was hired in 2018 getting the timeline mixed up. I can at least admit I made a mistake something you seem incapable of doing.
acell10
regardless the point is still the same. Devers wasn’t signed by Dave but great work finding some nonsensical smoking gun.
JoeBrady
The only other “person” we have seen claim Dombrowski was hired in 2018 is “JoeBrady”.
===============================
Lying-A classic troll move,
acell10
inability to admit they are wrong is also a classic troll move too.
JoeBrady
I don’t know why they do it, except a lack of self-esteem. On things of this nature, no one, including real GMs, are going to be right much better than 55% of the time.
JoeBrady
PulledaBloom2 days ago
Interesting signing because Bloom wanted Devers gone because he was a DD guy
=========================
Devers was signed by Cherington.
Fever Pitch Guy
Joe – I’ve admitted when I made mistakes, you know that. Nobody with the volume of messages that I post is perfect.
All you had to do is say “you’re right, my bad” and then we can all move on. We all know you don’t follow the team that closely, there’s no shame in that.
Fever Pitch Guy
Acel – Why are you still here having discussions with yourself? There’s newer Red Sox articles for you to troll, nobody is coming back to this one anymore.
JoeBrady
nobody is coming back to this one anymore.
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Says the poster that just circled back on this thread? Who said irony is dead?
acell10
any headway on finding those several people that think Joe and I are the same person? still waiting on that one….
JoeBrady
The troublesome part about that statement, assuming he isn’t lying, would be that he is contact with several of the posters and that they discuss this. I can disagree with AL34, Randy, etc., but I seriously doubt any of them are in touch with Fever to discuss this.
miltpappas
The Devers signing was under duress. Sox fans would have wanted Bloomers’ head on a pike had Devers gotten away.
deweybelongsinthehall
No. It was Henry’s head that was likely in danger. Most fans know the final word on big money deals rests with ownership.
acell10
Garret Whitlock also…
CravenMoorehead
A lot of people are overlooking the Red Sox right now. They haven’t made any “big splashes” this winter but have made several decent acquisitions (Turner, Yoshida, Duvall, Jansen, ect) and if their pitching is halfway decent they could suprise a lot of people in the AL East.
Clepto_
Lol!!!
CravenMoorehead
Random fact….I have dropped a deuce in 10 major league ballparks. I always take them before the 7th inning stretch because I play by my own set of rules.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
How do you time it so precisely? (Taking notes…)
CravenMoorehead
Mostly Yoga and a winner’s mindset tbh
olmtiant
Craven… impressive…. But I enjoyed the Willis tower ( sears tower Chicago) top floor while it was the tallest building in world…. Only maintenance might have went higher one floor up…. Tribune sports was the library choice…
miltpappas
Surprise? You mean 75 wins instead of 71?
@bogie2X
CravenMoorehead
What variant you would choose from offered?
What composition could be in a theory in 2023:
1.K.Schwarber DH $20 m AAV ( 46 HR – 2022 Phillies )
2.X.Bogaerts SS $25 m AAV ( 5 SS; most productive SS in MLB for the last 5 Yrs )
3.A.Verdugo LF $6.3 m AAV ( middle player in defence in the LF )
4.R.Devers 3B $17.5 m AAV
5.H.Renfroe RF $12 m AAV ( 29 HR – 2022 Milwaukee )
6.T.Casas 1B MIN.
7.K.Hernandez CF $10 m AAV ( higher the middle player in defence CF )
8.C.Arroyo 2B $2 m AAV
9.C.Vazquez C $10 m AAV
Bench: R.McGuire C $ 1.2 m AAV; J.Duran MIN; R.Mondesi SS $3 m AAV; R.Refsnyder OF $1.2 m AAV;
40-Man: C.Rafaela CF MIN; E.Valdez INF MIN; W.Abreu MIN; C.Wong C/2B MIN; C.Murphy P MIN; F.German P MIN; T.Ward P MIN; J.Groome P MIN; A.Politi MIN; N.Song P MIN.
SP:
1.C.Rodon $27 m AAV
2.C.Sale $25.6 m AAV
3.G.Whitlock $4.7 m AAV
4.B.Bello MIN
5.N.Pivetta $5.35 m AAV
6.K.Crawford MIN
7.B.Mata MIN
8.B.Walter MIN
Bullpen:
Closer – $16 m AAV
8-inn. – Houck MIN; Schreiber MIN; Bleier $3 m AAV
7-inn. – Paxton $4 m AAV; J.Rodriguez $2 m AAV
6-inn. – Z.Kelly MIN; Winckowski MIN; K.Ort MIN
$212.3 m + $ 4.9 m Barnes = $217.2 m LUX.TAX
It would leave 15 million for additions in term.
I would trade Dalbec after 2021 while he had a value, with Casas on approach and Schwarber in composition.
T.Ward, A.Politi, J.Groome, F.German, N.Song would be protected from a rule 5.
Red Sox 2023 now:
1.M.Yoshida LF/DH $ 18 m AAV – ( unverified player MLB, below the middle player in def. LF )
2.J.Turner DH/INF $ 10.85 m AAV
3.A.Verdugo RF $ 6.3 m AAV – ( below the middle player in defence RF )
4.R.Devers 3B $ 17.5 m AAV
5.A.Duvall CF $ 7 m AAV – ( hitter with pop, .230 AVG Career, GG 2021 (RF)
6.T.Casas 1B MIN
7.K.Hernandez SS $ 10 m AAV – ( higher the middle player in defence CF, middle player in SS )
8.C.Arroyo 2B $ 2 m AAV
9.R.McGuire C $ 1.2 m AAV
Story SS/2B IL-60 $ 23.33 m AAV
Bench: C.Wong C MIN; R.Mondesi SS/2B $3 m AAV; R.Refsnyder OF $1.2 m; Dalbec 1B/3B MIN.
40-Man: J.Duran OF MIN; C.Rafaela CF MIN; E.Valdez INF MIN; W.Abreu OF MIN; D.Hamilton SS/2B MIN; Y.Chang INF $0.85 m AAV; B.Mata P MIN; B.Water P MIN; C.Murphy P MIN; W.Mills P MIN
SP:
1.C.Sale $ 25.6 m AAV
2.G.Whitlock $ 4.7 m AAV
3.B.Bello MIN
4.C.Kluber $ 10 m AAV
5.J.Paxton $ 4 m AAV
6.N.Pivetta $ 5.35 m AAV
7.K.Crawford MIN
8.J.Winckowski MIN
Bullpen:
Closer – K.Jansen $ 16 m AAV
8 inn. – T.Houck MIN; C.Martin $ 8.75 m AAV; R.Bleier $ 3 m AAV
7 inn. – J.Schreiber MIN; J.Rodriguez $ 2 m AAV;
6 inn. – R.Brasier $ 2 m AAV; Z.Kelly MIN; K.Ort MIN
$199.13 m + $ 8 m Bradley, $ 4.9 m Barnes; $ 1.75 m Hosmer = $213.78 m LUX.TAX
We lost by rule 5:
T.Ward, A.Politi, , N.Song; J.Groome change by E.Hosmer
Errors of Bloom that brought to the cascade problems with lineup.
Bloom needed to be just saved Renfroe, prolong Schwarber, to revise a contract Bogie , to recondition BP 2-3 good hands, to sign Rodon before a season 2022.
Even exceeding a limit in 2022, we could be under a lid in 2023 and to compete.
Bogie wanted just payment, Bloom or guidance of Red Sox spoiled attitudes toward home-bred players.
San Diego of fussed with the suggestion in 280 million.
I don’t reprobate Bloom for that he didn’t interrupt this suggestion, I reprobate Bloom for that he ignored the contract of Bogaerts when it was necessary.
Xander passed to the club that ready now to fight for World Series.
With the exchange of Renfroe and ignoring of contract with Bogie, Bloom created the cascade of problems in outfield and SS in 2022 so in 2023.
bravesfan
Gosh, if I’m the Sox, I lock him up at the discount now.
GASoxFan
Here’s a problem. Players need to WANT to give a discount. You take a team discount to play with the Braves, you get taken care of by the team.
You take a team discount with the sox, you get kicked in the ribs and stabbed in the back, disrespected at every opportunity.
Cite to: Lester, Jon; Bogaerts, Xander; et al.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – You remember Bronson Arroyo?
He took a very friendly team discount because he loved pitching for the Sox.
And then just two months later Theo traded him for Wily Mo Pena.
One of the biggest Richard moves ever made by a GM.
kingken67
A move made by someone that left the organization over a decade ago. If you think ANY current player is basing decisions off of what happened to Arroyo you have a screw loose. Not to mention the fact that things turned out pretty well for Bronson. He went somewhere he had the chance to flourish as a starter, something not likely to be allowed to happen in Boston had he stayed.
Michael Macaulay-Birks
Wily Mo had the power, spectacular home runs and lots of strike outs
deweybelongsinthehall
Imagine how much he’d be worth in today’s game. Wily Mo, your parents should have had you twenty years later…
bosoxforlife
The worst player I ever saw play defense and the worst overall player I ever saw until I was compelled by my passion for the Red Sox to watch Franchy Cordero the past two seasons..
Fever Pitch Guy
king – I never wrote that what Theo did impacts current free agents. But keep in mind the common denominator is John Henry. He is the one that greenlighted letting Xander and Mookie walk, just like he greenlighted letting Lester walk.
And oh by the way, Henry later admitted he screwed up with Lester.
Fever Pitch Guy
Mike – Yes you nailed it. The homerun in KC was especially spectacular. He handed me a ball during a game in Baltimore though, so I did like him as a person.
MLB-1971
Obviously Houck’s agent did not like the discounted offer that was presented. If it was like Whitlock’s 18 million, I personally would have taken it as you never know when an injury will end your career. Mookie Betts avoided serious injury and made bank, but Nomar Garciaparra passed on $64,000,000 in 2003 (amongst the larger contracts at that time), and instead got hurt, traded, and ended up making $30 million over the same period. Gambling on not getting hurt is not always a good gamble. Machado effectively ended Pedroia’s career at least 3 to 4 years too early….
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I say why not? Always liked his arm and has a bulldog mentality. This guy has untapped upside, and like someone above said, looks like an ideal closer.
Fever Pitch Guy
ignorant – Right you are. Best way to describe Tanner is a bad ass, extremely cool under pressure and very clutch and not afraid to be aggressive. He stood his ground in not getting vaxxed despite all the crap he took from the ignorant so-called “fans”.
He has excellent makeup to be a closer, but I would like to give him an extended opportunity as a starter because starting pitchers have more value than relievers.
And shame on Pivetta for getting Covid three times. I like the guy a lot, but he should be smarter about minimizing risk.
olmtiant
Ignorant…. True that…. Reminds me of a young PAP… Love the fire he brings… and like Pap really only has 2 pitches but can still be very effective
Fever Pitch Guy
olmtian – That is a great comparison.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
This is a guy I would sign now to keep around. He’s been very solid.
PulledaBloom
Many teams are experimenting with the large early deals that appear to be team friendly with young talent. The key is when to do it. You need a mix of controlled years and free agent years to motivate the player to sign. The longer the deal the bigger the total the easier it is to sell to the player.
My suggestion is going for 6 year deals with 3 as the arbitration years and 3 as free agent years for players that are roughly 27 years old. If they are younger and look to be a lock for league average or above then I’d do 4 controlled years and 4 free agent years. That’s an offer for a player 22 to 26 years old.
These deals will be just the opposite of what we are used to seeing. The last years will be the best years for the owners not the players. Their next contract, if they do well during their initial contract, will bump their pay significantly from the team friendly price of the first contract. If you miss with a contract like this one, it still hurts less than a contract with an established star.
PulledaBloom
Using the criteria set forth in my previous comment here is the timetable for signing 6 year deals with young Red Sox stars.
Bello is 24 and is PreArb 2 so sign him after 2024 to six years
Casas is 23 and is PreArb 3 so sign him after 2023 to six years
Houck is 27 and is PreArb 2 so sign him after 2024 to six years
Mata is 24 and is PreArb 1 so sign him after 2025 to six years
Rafaela is 22 and is PreArb 3 so sign him after 2023 to six years
Remember, each of these suggestions is based on the players earning a long term spot on the roster. If in doubt, wait and shorten the deal if they are currently over 25.
These 5 guys along with Mayer and Yorke could be the future core of the Boston Red Sox every day roster.
Fever Pitch Guy
Pulled – All of those 5 guys you listed are from Dombrowski.
Apparently the farm system Bloom inherited was not nearly as bad as the haters claim it was.
Fuolovit1
I think the claim from some RS fans was DD left the RS bereft of young min salary talent. And he did. The last 3 years, the farm provided little other then Devers. And he was paid 16M the last three years
DD gets an A+ in my book. But understandably, he did what was necessary to win now and left a mess for his successor, at least for the first two or three upcoming years.
He sure did leave some talent at the lower levels. Hopefully, they will be difference makers going forward.
JoeBrady
As I’ve said before, it is too early to judge DD’s prospects. What we do know is that, between Cherington & DD, the recent years have had virtually no contributions from the farm other than Devers & Benni.
PulledaBloom
Fuo – When you consider the process of stocking a farm system you must consider it to be like a series of conveyor belts.
There is the age conveyor belt and as a player gets drafted he gets slotted on the age conveyor belt. As time passes, the player nears the end of the conveyor belt and retirement.
At the same time there is a conveyor belt representing the different levels of the organization. After each draft, the new players are dropped into an appropriate level of the organization where they are expected to master the competition to move to the next level.
The misconception believed by the trendy baseball fans who follow modern metrics and publicized rankings is that a farm system strength is in the future of it’s players not in the results recorded historically. Thus, a highly ranked farm system MAY or MAY NOT produce MLB players in the future according to rankings but the actual graduation of players documents the achievements of a farm system. BIG DIFFERENCE. One is a guess at the future the other is facts produced by the farm system.
DD brought in players all throughout his time as GM. Yes, he traded a few away to improve the team but that didn’t in any way slow the additions that were coming from the draft, the primary source for the farm system. Cherington still has players on the conveyor belt hoping to see the majors some day, so does DD and so does Bloom. If you count the graduates, then you go back to Theo who had lots, Cherington who had a few and DD who is now seeing his guys graduate. Bloom probably won’t see that happen for at least two years.
So measuring the farm system with futures may suggest that some day Bloom might get credit for picking guys that make a difference for the Red Sox but as of today that is not the case for Bloom. DD may not have any stars that graduate either but he has Sale who he got using the farm system and if not for Cora, DD’s use of the farm system would be prolific in making Boston successful. He acquired a SP who could have been a Cy Young candidate from 2018 to 2022 but Cora intervened and derailed his career.
So keep an eye on the conveyor belts because you are right, DD left plenty of players on the belt that may some day be stars for the Red Sox. The same can be said about Bloom but until that happens it’s crazy to suggest that the farm system has changed in any way under Bloom. The names may be different but the results haven’t happened and there is no guarantee they will. The same is true for DD except for the players procured using the farm system. They count as recorded successes under DD.
JoeBrady
he did what was necessary to win now and left a mess for his successor, at least for the first two or three upcoming years.
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I’ve been saying that for a few years. It’s not at all unusual that teams accumulate some young talent, add a few FAs, and become successful. The the FAs age, the young talent gets expensive, and the success disappears.
In our case, Bogarts, ERod, Devers & Betts became expensive, and Price, JD, Sale, Porcello, etc., got old. That’s what happens to the 2018 team.
Compare that to Houston, who lost Springer, Correa, Cole, Morton and Kuechel from their 2018, but had enough prospects to replace them.
olmtiant
Bloom…. Bingo.. this is what I wish they would have done with Mookie/ X/ and well Benny after 18 and before 18.. like they did back in the day with petey and Youk… they waited to long and either the above balked at the attempt or the offers were rejected… I know your not high on this season but I’m optimistic… hell either way my buddy Brais is still on team
jackbee
Nitwit personified defines Pivetta who now has COVID19 for 3rd time. Is he one of the anti vaxxers on Red Sox last season. His poor 2022 — forget 32 starts but remember ERA over 5 – put him in jeopardy being Red Sox starter in 2023.
NP will be so behind condition wise that seems certain he will start regular season on IR with 30 day conditioning stint in Pawtucket. When he returns to Boston he’ll probably be in bullpen in long relief or as ‘Opener’ until totally healthy. As long as he doesn’t face Blue Jays or Yankees, Pivetta will be fine in ’23.
Fever Pitch Guy
Jack – He is not. Only Houck, Duran and Sale refused to get the vax.
bosoxforlife
It had to be very difficult for Bloom to go against everything he was taught in Tampa, don’t spend money and never, never offer a large long term contract, to accept reality and play where the big boys are now playing to sign Devers. However if he hadn’t he would have needed a couple of bodyguards 7/24/365 if he dared show his face in New England. The Tampa approach will not fly with the VERY passionate members of Red Sox Nation and I should know because I first sat in Fenway in 1948.
Fever Pitch Guy
bosox – Great post!