Angels manager Phil Nevin spoke with reporters (including The Athletic’s Sam Blum) about the club’s pitching plans this afternoon. The Halos have run with a six-man rotation for the past few seasons, and while they could adopt that as a loose framework in 2023, Nevin indicated the team wants to put an emphasis on allowing the pitchers at the top of the rotation- including two-way superstar Shohei Ohtani – to get more action on the mound. Rather than adhere to a rigid six-man staff every turn through, Nevin suggested the club would be flexible in deploying their nominal sixth starter as more of a swing option.
Headed into the 2022 season, the club had few surefire starting pitchers beyond Ohtani, as Patrick Sandoval had started just fourteen games in 2021 while the big pitching acquisition for the Halos that offseason was Noah Syndergaard, who was returning to the mound after pitching just two innings since the end of the 2019 season.
Fortunately, the 2022 season saw multiple impressive performances from Angels starters: in addition to Ohtani improving as a pitcher on his 2021 MVP campaign and placing fourth in Cy Young award voting, Sandoval impressed with a 2.91 ERA and 3.09 FIP in a career-high 148 2/3 innings while Reid Detmers showed flashes of the talent that made him the 10th overall pick in the 2020 draft. Jose Suarez proved to be a capable back-of-the-rotation starter over twenty starts. The Halos also improved their rotation externally with the addition of Tyler Anderson, a durable starter who broke out with the crosstown Dodgers in 2023 to the tune of a 2.57 ERA and 3.31 FIP across 178 2/3 innings.
With Sandoval having proved himself, Anderson under contract, and both Detmers and Suarez looking ready for a bigger challenge, it makes sense for the Angels to try and lean more on their top five in the rotation, especially if it means getting Ohtani on the mound more often. After years of carefully managing Ohtani’s workload in an attempt to keep him healthy, the Angels have allowed him to play more and more, with less firm restrictions in recent years. Considering a more traditional rotation appears to be the next logical step in that process.
Each of those five starting options appears likely to be a substantial improvement over the starts Anaheim’s internal options for a sixth starter can provide. Following his trade to the Angels last summer as part of the deal that sent closer Raisel Iglesias to the Braves, lefty Tucker Davidson struggled mightily in eight starts (36 2/3 innings): a ghastly 6.87 ERA and nearly matching 6.30 FIP was good for an ERA+ of just 60, or 40% worse than the league average pitcher.
Blum notes that right-hander Griffin Canning is fully healthy and partook in a normal offseason after missing the entire 2022 season with a back injury, so he could certainly factor into the sixth starter mix as well. That said, despite roughly league average results in his major league career to this point (an ERA+ of 96 in 209 1/3 innings spanning from 2019 to 2021), Canning has never reached 100 innings pitched in the majors and is coming off a long layoff, so it would be no surprise if the Angels planned on managing his workload carefully during his age-27 season.
Overall, given the relative strength of their starting five, the emphasis on letting Ohtani play without restriction in recent years, and the dearth of quality, reliable options for the sixth starter slot, Nevin’s plan to consider a more traditional rotation in 2023 makes sense. A reliable sixth starter would likely have to come externally, and those options are slim following Michael Wacha’s signing with the Padres earlier today.
Wow!
Pitches tent.
OH yeah…….every other everyday player hasn’t pitched 300 innings over the past 2 years either……apples and oranges dude……….apples and oranges.
So 5-man rotation equates to 4 more starts for Ohtani and the other 4 starters (fewer if a spot starter is plugged in. The Angels finished 33 games behind the Astros meaning they could have gone 25-0 with all those “extra” starts and they’d still have been 8 games back. They finished 13 games behind the Ray for the 3rd wild card.
Maybe the key is giving the 3rd outfielder at bats to Hunter Renfroe and having Rendon available for more than 47 games, Trout more than 119 and a healthy Jared Walsh.
Wonder how this will affect Ohtani in his walk season?
If we’re contending we’re using him until the end then letting him walk. If we’re out of contention we’re trading him. There’s no way Arte is committing the kind of money Shohei deserves when he has twice as many chances of getting hurt than normal players.
Any other pitchers pitches every five days. Why should he be special in that regard? I don’t blame them for expecting that of him as well, and getting him on the mound more often.
most japanese teams have 6 men rotation. the team wanted to be able to start as many games comming off tjs. now that he is healthy they are going to use 5 men rotation.
DUH……….maybe because “any other pitcher” doesn’t step up to the plate 1305 times, score 193 runs, hit 56 doubles – 14 triples – 80 homers – successfully steal 37 bases in 56 attempts – be hit by pitch 9 times – and hit countless foul balls off his foot as Shohei has done over the last 2 seasons. Instead, “any other pitcher” sits in the dugout getting their full rest / recharge of their internal battery between innings. I may be wrong but could it be that’s why he is “special.”
Every other everyday player does these things playing every day (hopefully). Shohei chose to be a two way player probably because the Angels let him. I’m sure other teams wanted him to stick with one. Hunter Greene and his organization chose for him to concentrate on pitching.
Question still stands.
Not every other everyday player wins Rookie of the Year, an MVP and then follows that up the next year by finishing 2nd for MVP and 4th for Cy Young, totaling a WAR of 18.6 the past 2 years. Starters in a 5-man rotation average 32 starts over the course of the season. Ohtani made 28 starts last year. If you think the Angels would have made the playoffs if only he had made 4 more starts you’re deluding yourself and embarrassing all of your previous math teachers. Also, I wouldn’t say Shohei “chose” to be an everyday player but rather was blessed by the baseball gods with the talent to not only be an MVP offensive force but a Cy Young caliber pitcher as well. If it an’t broke don’t fix it. Ohtani ain’t broke the Angels are and Arte could have gone a long way toward fixing that by signing a bonafide shortstop, improving the bullpen and/or signing one of the top tier free agent pitchers that were available. The fact that you’ve doubled down on your question just proves you don’t get it.
Every inning the Angels pen sits is a W in context.
I’m not sure why people give me a hard time when I bring this up.
I was listening to a fantasy sports show this morning about closers and they brought up Estevez. They were talking about how he was ‘ok’ on the road… ‘ok’? That’s really what we are looking for?
The Angels are hoping he’s going to turn everything around away from Coors. How often does that happen? Serious question. I don’t think it happens to often.
Every Angel RP has major warts.
The Angels just signed a guy who turned around his career after leaving Colorado.
His name is Tyler Anderson and he is our new #2 starting pitcher.
Welcome back.
He was good for one season. And he went to SF, Pittsburgh and Seattle first. So if you are implying it’s going to take three years and four teams for Estevez to be good, I’m saying that won’t do us much good.
He was still performed better than Colorado. He was a highly touted pitcher when he joined the league.
He was awesome facing Angels last season. The Dodgers tweaked his offspeed pitches and he moved up to a higher echelon of consistent performance because of it.
He left the Dodgers because their management took him out of the playoffs am inning too soon and they lost because of it.
Troutahni – I like Anderson but I don’t think as you said “He left the Dodgers because their management took him out of the playoffs am inning too soon and they lost because of it”. I saw a video interview where he said he came to the Angels because he thought they were a team on the cusp of being really good. I think he said he liked them the year he went to the Dodgers.
He was also horrible facing the Angels the year before.
Estevez is unlikely to be good with the peripherals he showed last year, HOWEVER, they brought in Bill Hazel of Driveline. and he’s going to get the most of these guys. I’m hopeful their peripherals will improve, and if they do, they’ll be better.
Seems like they just want to get every last ounce out of Ohtani full well knowing he will never wear an angels uniform again…. His health is no concern of theirs after this season smh
This is nonsense. He has everything he wants in life in the OC except a winning team. If the Angels compete he stays.
He can still have “everything he wants in life in the OC” while driving 32 miles north on the I-5 to Dodger Stadium every day
I think it’s naive to think the ONLY west coast team he will go to is the Dodgers. We can’t rule out that he might want to follow Ichiro’s footsteps and go to the Seattle Mariners. Or the S.F. Giants.
He already turned down Seattle.
I think the Dodgers are the front runners.
Of course, you can’t rule out anything.
Have you ever driven the 5 freeway up to LA?
It sucks Big Time!
I avoid driving to LA as much as possible. I have to drug myself whenever driving in the passenger seat. I let my Wife drive because I absolutely hate driving from the OC to Los Angeles.
LAX is more tolerable.
John Wayne Airport is one of the easiest airports to get access to by its location off the 55 freeway and the 405. You can be the there in 20 to 40 minutes from anywhere in Orange County by using the carpool lane. Why would he want to go to LA and deal with that disaster of a city? WIth its high crime rate and a homeless population that almost outnumbers the population of homeowners amd renters. I’m sure Shohei would prefer to remain in the OC.
When I had season tickets, I lived in Thousand Oaks.
I also worked in Downey. I have an idea.
With the money he’ll make on his next contract I’m sure he’ll be able to afford a chauffeur and the best private security in the world. I doubt LA’s blight has any influence on his decision to want to sign with the team that actually gives him the chance at winning a championship
You’re reasoning has nothing to do with reality.
If he wants to fly home, LAX is the closest for direct flights. There are PLENTY of OC style gated conclaves in LA, so he wouldn’t have to slob around with the unwashed masses. If OC was SO GREAT!!!!! Why have so many local boys spurned the Angels when FA’s? OMGTHEBEACHANDTHEMONKETYANDTROUT!!!! didn’t bring Cole, or any of the others here did it?
Your comment is nonsense……..you have no idea as to what Shohei “wants.” I suspect he prefers to be on the west coast as that certainly provides more favorable flight logistics to and from Japan. As for the Angels competing…….what does that mean…….they finish 2nd or 3rd, only missing a playoff spot by a game or two (or 3 or 4 instead of 13 like last year? There are 5 other west coast teams, all of which have been to the playoffs over the course of Shohei’s Angel career. The Dodgers have been all 5 years that Ohtani’s been in Anaheim including a World Series championship. Heck, even the Oakland A’s have been 3 times and the Padres twice……that’s what I call competing. I certainly hope and want Ohtani to stay put but am not naive enough to think The OC offers “everything he wants in life” or that it is the only place he can find that.
Yep Complete nonsense. The plan is to get Ohtani a few more starts this year., Maybe 20 to 30 more innings. It gives the best chance to succeed. This is the same reason most teams use the 5 man rotations. Ohtani is definitely on board with the plan to get himself some extra starts.
Maybe it’s just me but I am terrified for Ohtani’s health.
It’s still every six days. Most starters go every 5 days.
Ohtani 2nd TJ coming up.
He already had his second TJS. If Ohtani indicates that he will play out the season then enter Free Agency, then I have no problem having him pitch every sixth day. If the Angels are going to have a chance to make he Postseason then Ohtani has to lead them there. No team has ever won with a six man rotation. There are olenty of off days that will afford each starter to have enough rest.
Trout. I don’t think that’s accurate. He had a tear when he got here, but I don’t think he had a prior surgery.
Yeah, I think he’s only had one TJS.
It was so aggravating when Maddon would yank the starter who was dealing and well under 100 pitches only for the bullpen to blow it. I’m excited!
nevin isn’t any better even though all the commands come from upstairs
Commands coming from upstairs is a problem, for me. As a fan you never know what your manager is actually deciding to do. Who is to blame for the poor decision making? As a fan I want to know. And I don’t think the front office should be making those calls. You should be entrusting people you hire to make those calls. But many front offices just want the manager to manage the players and not the actual game.
I read that Minasian called Maddon in the dugout and told him what managerial move he needed to make. I thought Maddon was a horrible manager, but that is 100 percent unacceptable.
And I’m not saying Arte wasn’t involved. He may have been.
I watched as a braves fan while in the NLDS the braves kept IBB Kyle Schwarber even though he was ice cold, this putting another runner on base and getting one batter closer to Bruce Harper in an early run scoring situation which led to two of the 5 games getting out of hand fairly early if I recall correctly. I think this was the front office. I also think they were insistent on starting Spencer Strider instead of letting him relieve for an inning or two. It all looks bad for the manager when you play an entire season so well and the front office (likely) blows it by calling the shots in a matter of 2 days.
Manager Brian Snitker sked late in season of Jake Osorizzi would be pulled from rotation stated “I don’t know. I don’t make those decisions.”
*asked not sked
Let your manage. If they don’t their jobs, fire them
I’m assuming they were hired for a reason.
Have to figure Sandoval, Detmers, and Suarez are entering their primes.
Might as well roll with them and Ohtani as much as we can.
Sandoval needs to get his change up back. He can’t throw his fastball to RH hitters. If the change up comes back, he can repeat.
Suarez is a back of the rotation starter.
The guy I really like is Detmers. If he can’ take a step forward, he can be really really good.
@HHJJ I agree. The one bright spot for the Angels last year was the rotation. Why not utilize it more? Seems to be our best hope to end this playoff drought.
My guess is Barria would be in the bullpen and start on occasion when needed. . Canning and Silseth to start in the minors. At least that is how I see the Angels starting early this season.
Well as the Late Great John McKay said many moons ago
The Ball ain’t heavy
we got that, mr. castrated!
Just use days off to keep these guys on five days of rest. When they play six in a row, use the sixth starter. That will give them more innings. Am I over simplifying that?
Yes, that is the plan, at least from all the reports this off season. Pretty simple for sure.
Hints the reason they didn’t spend big on another SP. Barring injury, how many starts is that 6th SP really going to get? And what solid FA SP would actually want to sign up for that? You still would think that the 6th guy, would still get 15 plus starts thou, cause the top 5 will miss some starts. Knock on wood.
This is where I foresee problems. Unless you can get these 5 starters to pitch longer into games, you’re leaving too many innings to cover from a lackluster bullpen. Last season Ohtani, Detmers, Sandoval, Anderson, and Suarez covered roughly 730 innings. That’s almost exactly 50% of the required amount of total innings needed. Those guys are either going to have to provide a larger share of (quality) innings, or it’s going to have to come from a bullpen that’s not looking so hot on paper.
For S/O.. mine as well light the candle at both ends now….
This certainly is an oversimplified approach, but after the 6-man rotation obviously worked well for the Angels last year, I would have rather tinkered with something else. Bullpen performances are often very volatile from year to year, but even if the Angels would not want to settle with hope alone, there are still a few quality relievers available.
Gruß,
BSHH
Something that isn’t being mentioned very often is that the Angels actually went out and got a pitching coach (or some adjacent coaching role) named Bill Hezel.
He is the former Director of Pitching for Driveline.
I think one thing the Angels have lacked for several years was someone who understood the modern metrics of pitching: spin rate, sophisticated delivery analysis, etc.
Driveline has been where many top of the rotation guys found a new level in their game, so Im somewhat excited to see what sort of improvements our core guys can actually make.
I think this has been one of the biggest gaps between the Halos and the top teams, especially the Astros, who seem to be able to maximize every pitchers game.
It’s a wrinkle I’m curious to watch unfold this season.
@OC That is good point. A lot of people were excited when he was brought on board.. The Angels have definitely not had anyone with Hezel’s eye or insight recently. The Angels pitchers were already headed in the right direction. It will be interesting to see how much further Hezel can take them.
The Angels have been doing a lot recently in the past couple seasons behind the scenes, which were ignored for a long time by the organization. Unfortunately, none of it has realized as success at the major league level. Hopefully, something happens soon. These past 10-12 years have been tough on us die hard Angel fans.
Oh my god. That’s great, great news.
OcSports.
Wow, that’s my favorite news of the off-season.