Last week, Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi said that the club wanted to improve behind the plate but were unlikely to give out a major league deal to address that position. It appears that viewpoint extends to other areas of the roster as well, with Zaidi again speaking with reporters, including Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area.
“It would be nice to have somebody who can play the middle infield spots off the bench, ideally a plus defender,” Zaidi said. “But that bumps somebody off the roster and right now, the way it looks, everybody has kind of got a clear role.” And how about the outfield? “It would be a challenge bringing in any additional outfielders and having to move guys around,” he says. “We sort of have most, if not all, of our at-bats accounted for at those [outfield] spots right now.”
It seems the Giants are pretty happy with all of the players in the mix at the moment and will stick to non-roster moves for the time being. The club added a couple of outfielders already this winter, signing Michael Conforto and Mitch Haniger to take over the corner spots. That leaves Mike Yastrzemski and Austin Slater handling center field while Joc Pederson is likely takes the bulk of at-bats in the designated hitter slot. They also have Luis González and Heliot Ramos as optionable depth players.
On the infield, it will be more of a hodgepodge of holdovers from last year’s roster. Brandon Crawford seemed like he was going to get bumped off shortstop when Carlos Correa was set to take over that job for the next 13 years. That deal then fell through and Correa is returning to the Twins, allowing Crawford to hang on to the spot. Thairo Estrada took over the second base job last year and should be back there in 2023. In 541 plate appearances in 2022, he hit 14 home runs and slashed .260/.322/.400 for a wRC+ of 106, indicating he was 6% better than the league average hitter. He also added 21 stolen bases but the reviews on his defense were mixed. Outs Above Average and Ultimate Zone Rating pegged him as being just a shade below league average but Defensive Runs Saved gave him a grade of -12. Perhaps a bit more exposure to the position would help, as he’d only ever had part-time duty at the keystone prior to last year. Zaidi mentioned the club would like to add another middle infielder, though it seems they will stick to minor league deals.
LaMonte Wade Jr. has been squeezed out of the outfield picture but seems likely to get plenty of opportunity to take over first base with Brandon Belt now out of the picture. Third baseman Evan Longoria also has a new team this year, leaving third base primarily in the hands of Wilmer Flores, while J.D. Davis and David Villar are each on hand to help out at the corners on occasion.
In terms of depth, Isan Díaz and Brett Wisely are each on the 40-man roster and can be optioned. That’s something that seems to be valued, given Zaidi’s comments about not wanting to bump anyone off their current roster position. Wisely has yet to make his major league debut, having just been acquired from the Rays and added to the roster prior to the Rule 5 deadline. He hit .274/.371/.460 in Double-A last year for a 121 wRC+ while playing each infield position and left field. As for Díaz, he was outrighted by the Marlins but then acquired by the Giants for non-roster depth. He responded by hitting .275/.377/.574 for Triple-A Sacramento and getting a roster spot again.
Like all clubs, the Giants would surely love to add some extra depth to this group but it seems they like all of these players enough that they don’t want to sacrifice any of them in the name of additions. “I wouldn’t rule out bringing in somebody who could be a multi-position utility type who is maybe a speed-and-defense specialist, but it would bump somebody that right now we’re planning [on being] on the roster, so that would come at some cost,” Zaidi said.
If that viewpoint continues to hold for the next few weeks, the Giants will seemingly keep themselves to minor league deals. One roster spot seems likely to open up soon, however, as it’s been reported that Luke Jackson could open the season on the 60-day injured list while continuing to rehab from Tommy John surgery. There’s no injured list during the offseason but players can be placed there once pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training. If the club finds another player they’d like to add to their roster, they could try waiting a few weeks to close the deal, though the player could also pursue more firm commitments elsewhere in the interim. They would also have to be quite confident in Jackson’s timeline, since the 60-day clock doesn’t begin until Opening Day, meaning he wouldn’t be eligible for activation until late May.
The Giants like 3rd place. The ownership has been in the profit taking mode for some time now.
I think its very reasonable to expect a dynamic Arizona to overtake them quite easily.
Then the Giants would like 4th place….
That’s correct.
According to the trustworthy Jon Heyman: the Giants are still all in on Arson Judge and Taint Correa, also hearing Carlos Rodon wants to comeback to SF also.
Oh my god.
The troll who never gives up on his recycled material.
Still not funny.
well gfan, he learned “copy, paste” so he’s having his fun with that. Simple pleasures I guess
I think he just learned what a taint was too, but chances are he’ll never get to use one as a chin rest.
@gfan- Somebody still sounds salty and crushed. Nice to know I’m still getting to you; enjoy! Good luck in 2023!
@gfan- are you going to start to cry now? Poor baby.
Yup.
12 year old repetitive trolls have always left me salty and crushed. Guess I’ll cry myself to sleep now.
Have fun at grade school tomorrow.
Third? At least the Rockies and Snakes have potential.
Yeah, Zaidi, you don’t want to move anybody off that 40 man roster since they all have a role.
This is the first time I have seen “Rockies” and “potential” together in a sentence unironically in a very long time.
The Rockies have potential snowfall and rain in the forecast…
What, too soon?
Quite a disappointing offseason even when taking into account the pieces that didn’t fall their way (Judge and Correa). A new outfield and some mid tier pitchers does not make them competitive in the NLW.
The Judge saga. Man, I was so pumped when John Heyman tweeted that ARSON Judge was signing w/the Giants. It was heartbreaking and I don’t trust Heyman anymore lol. Mr. Trashcan Correa was the consolation prize for Judge. From the start I did NOT want Correa, especially for 13 years! Relieved for it to fall through in the end
You would think he was running the Reds or something.
What are you talking about??
Right as the Reds started becoming competitive, rather than build upon their momentum, ownership decided to do a total 180 and cut costs in any way possible. Wade Miley was very solid for them, and they just let him walk over $10mm. They traded away Sonny Gray, Winker and Suarez, as well as some of their other players, but never re-fortified their lineup or rotation. And this offseason they spent less than $10mm on Wil Myers and Luke Weaver.
Yes, so many parallels to a team that signed more players and spent more than most other teams. Excellent take!
If you knew the predicament of small market teams, you would know what really happened there and why. But you are a Giants fan.
The fact your GM runs it like a small market team is what I was pointing out, but you decided to be insulting.
The Giants signed more players and spent more than most other teams? Really?
I have read comments from your fellow fans that tend to dispute that.
You do realize the Giants and A’s are a beer throw away from each other, right? So I am well aware of how small teams operate.
And yes, “really”. Why do people with weak arguments think saying “really” is an effective rhetorical tactic to do all of their heavy lifting when they don’t have a point? The Giants signed Conforto, who is high risk/ high reward. Every dollar counts for a small market team, so they don’t pay that kind of money for a player that has risk of being cooked. They paid Pederson almost $20mm – it was a massive overpay, but built into that was some certainty that they could retain a known commodity that hit well for them. Small market teams can’t overpay for luxuries like that. They also added Stripling, Rogers, and Manaea. None of those three players had prohibitive price tags, but compared to a team like the Brewers, who were demonstrably better than the Giants last year, I think it’s a little inaccurate to characterize the Giants as a spending like a small market team when they’re outspending a team that would benefit from making moves to improve the team while their window is open. And had Correa been perfectly healthy, they were absolutely willing to pay up for him. If the Mets debacle hadn’t followed, I’d grant you that maybe the Giants could have gotten cold feet (although we’d never really know), but given the circumstances they absolutely were willing to pay up.
And I have read comments from my fellow fans calling the Giants cheap as well. That doesn’t make it right. When the team was not very good, they still spent decent on slightly higher risk/ high reward players (Gausman, Rodon, deSclafani, Wood, etc) that didn’t come cheap relative to how uncompetitive the Giants were. Fans complained then because Farhan hadn’t made any big moves even though we were not one or two big players away from being sustainably good, so it didn’t even make sense then. But now, they sign six players from MLBTR’s top 50 list (as one metric, not an end all), almost seven if Correa were healthy, and they still complain. I honestly don’t understand it at all.
This one belongs to the Reds, The Reds did not sign a single FA from MLBTR’s top 50 list. The Giants signed 6. Along with the Mets, that was the most signed by any team. No team signed 5, and only one other team, the Rangers signed 4.
The payroll increased this year by more than $59.8M. That increase alone is around $10-11M less than the Reds total 2023 payroll. So I’d say your post was highly inaccurate.
Tad, I know they haven’t and I have called them out on that on here a whole lot of times. I keep repeating a projected 80 million payroll is inexcusable when they have spent 130 million in the past. I know they couldn’t get into the insane top 10 or 15 money because they are a small market, but they could have added several from, say, the 20 to 50 rankings for 50 million.
That doesn’t excuse the fact your GM has talked a bigger game going into this than he actually put out, so I know why some of your fans are ticked off too.
This one belongs to the Reds, And my response to those fans that are ticked off, is to ask what was FZ supposed to do? Tie Judge to a chair and zap him with a car battery until he agreed to sign? It takes two to tango, and even when you try your best, if a guy wants to re-sign with the Yankees there’s nothing you can do about it. I would point out that the Yankees matched the very generous offer that FZ made, certainly an overpay as it was, but Judge also turned an even better offer from the Padres.
There was a good article on Fangraphs about how the Giants and Mets addressed missing out on Correa. It basically said FZ did the best he could this season given the situation. Any Giants’ fan pissed off, is just ridiculous, probably short on equanimity, and not to mention, knowledge.
I would agree with that. But this year he let to don walk last year guasman. I can’t see the dodgers letting their top starter walk two years in a row over money. Not with out an ace in the hole or Sacramento to be more precise. Why hold on to Robson to encourage the fan base just to let him walk? I honestly wasn’t a fan of Rondon long term but it’s the principal that the Giants are not compatible on obtaining or retaining top free agent taken that alarms me.
@not a clever name
That’s a fair critique, and I get that it’s frustrating to see a player become a revelation only to watch him walk away. But not a very objective one.
The Giants and Dodgers is not very fair comparison because both teams are in different levels of building a sustainable team. The Giants, as a result, opted to take fliers on high-risk players. The risk in that approach is that if the player delivers (which Gausman and Rodon have), it’s an awkward in between of they are worth the addition money, but still carry a healthy amount of risk, so you must hedge a bet on how many years you would be comfortable signing that player to. So while it’s frustrating, so would an injury-plagued 6 years with Rodon.
The Dodgers did have a similar occurrence with Tyler Anderson. While not quite the level of Gausman or Rodon, he was still a very effective pitcher that came on a shorter term contract which allowed him to cash in on a bigger contract. The difference is that the Dodgers have more than enough talent to make up for his loss, and are so far ahead in their development that they have talented pitchers (such as Dustin May) coming back into the picture while Anderson leaves. If the Giants had, say, three Logan Webb-esque pitchers, the losses of Gausman or Rodon would not have stung nearly as much.
Anything about a 4th place finish would be overachieving at this point.
*above
LOLGiants
I’m sure you were you laughing like a clown prior to 2021 as well.
It’s the Dodgers and Padres laughing now.
Phenomenal Depth, Per Gmoney.
Giants are trying to recreate the 2021 magic. Good luck to them, but I don’t see them finishing past third place in the NL West at this point. Good luck Giants fans!
One-armed Conforto will lead the Giants to glory!
“liner to left, Conforto hits the ball dude with his cutoff, relay from the ball dude to Crawford… safe at the plate, Runner is already halfway to the dugout by the time ball gets to Bart”
defensive upgrade in left field is bragging about throwing a ball 200 feet after 1.5 years of rehab, inspiring
Baseball fan acting like a bitchy teenage schoolgirl on the internet.
Unsurprising.
My guess is they are riding this year out to have the money to acquire Ohtani next winter. I don’t think the angels have done enough to retain Ohtani and I’ve always predicted the Giants as his landing spot.
He wants to win though. SF doesn’t look like they will be a meaningful contender any time soon. I think the Dodgers are probably most likely.
For sure, but they might be willing to do more than the Angels have done over the next year to set themselves up for 2024.
I think this offseason, while not definitive, put a tarnish on the Giants in terms of their spending capacity and their attractiveness to free agents. There just aren’t a whole lot of interesting players on that team.
Nothing about this front office should give any Giants fans confidence in their ability to lure Ohtani to SF.
The budget flexibility should be enough.
It’s not the Giants fault Judge wasn’t ever considering a new team but still outbid the Yankees, It definitely is not the Giants fault about Correa, and they did lure him, and the Giants are a better team this year then last. So, even though I’m disappointed about no big signing, it’s not like they didn’t try and I believe are better for it. Money will not be an issue with ohtani with the FO or ownership..they are trying to spend
Hey ted – For the record, I’m an Angels fan, not a Giants fan.
Who in their right mind actually thinks Ohtani would consider the Giants for anything more than salary inflation? Get real folks!
San – So you can’t have a discussion without being confrontational and insulting? Your opinion is just that, an opinion, as is mine and everyone else on here. It’s ok to disagree, contrary to the popular mood of the country. Don’t be part of the problem.
Of course he is not going to the Giants. The fans suck.
Nope.
Like Ohtani would pick the Giants over the Dodgers.
All you people with your weird comments and hate, act like you know. I will tell you this…if it’s money ohtani wants, then Judges offer by the Giants is a good indicator on how the Giants will spend.
Thank you Balk. People talk on here like they are in the meetings and know. It’s nothing but conjecture.
As a life long Angels fan, I don’t think Moreno has done enough this winter to convince Ohtani to stay. The only two possibilities that could sway him in my opinion are if 1) The team sells 2) the team actually makes the playoffs this year. It might take both to happen. We will see.
Again, these are my opinions and I don’t mind if anyone disagrees with me. I don’t consider them stupid, ignorant, crazy, yada yada yada, as many say on here for disagreeing.
Prov…Angels are in a tough position, they have some good ball players on the team and it’s crazy they haven’t done better over the years. I wouldn’t count out new ownership wanting to extend him, but it seems like these superstars who haven’t experienced FA are wanting to test the waters even if their intentions are to milk every dollar out of their current club like Judge. Not to say he didn’t deserve it.
Prov356…just for the heck of it, that verse you sport as your handle is my favorite. My grandfather shared it with me as a child…I now sport it on my arm with permanent ink. Lol
Balk – That’s awesome. It’s a good one to live by.
The issue with the Angels under Moreno’s ownership has been pitching. He’s good at signing superstar hitters and ignoring the pitching staff. I believe Ohtani will definitely test the market regardless. I would too.
So will every team. They aren’t unique for wanting Ohtani. Unless the Giants are somehow offering way more than the field, he’s not coming
I doubt he is picking either one.
I don’t think the Giants have done enough to entice Ohtani either, but I do think they’ll put their money where their mouth is. I think they’ll offer him whatever the market is and it’ll be up to Ohtani where he wants to go – just like Judge.
Sug – I agree. He will have several competitive offers. He’ll figure it out.
Jesus, so much negativity on this thread and on social media towards Zaidi and the Giants. People are sad and bitter inside and think lashing out online will help, it just makes them look petty and small. Try looking at the good side of life sometimes, you will be surprised by the abundance of beauty and love in the world, but only if you open your hearts.
I personally like the moves this winter. We have a few kids on the brink of reaching the majors and more next year. They are not blocked now. Zaidi likes flexibility and so do I.
I can’t wait to compete and shut all of you boring pedantic negative nellies up. Go Giants!!!
You’re correct. Technically competing for 3rd place is still competing.
Anyone who watched the Giants last year would know what happened. Craw got injured and the defense fell apart. Joc in left was bad as well. They probably lost 8+ games due to the defense. Without that they would’ve been in the post season. They’ve improved on defense, in the outfield, on offense, and yes, on the mound and bullpen. 90 wins is very possible. The team that will fall the furthest this year is the Dodgers. They lost many key pieces, and are counting on a shaky 2-5 pitching staff. After Urias who do they have?? May looked like a different pitcher. Old man Kershaw? He’ll be on the IL after a couple starts. As a Giant fan I’m way more concerned with AZ than LA, but we should finish in the money.
Thank you TellItGoodbye! I’m right there with you 🙂
Don’t forget the dead ball that Manfred gave us last year, while giving the goldilocks ball to the Yankees and others. Slater tried to delve into the 3 different balls used last year but MLB shut him down.
We also missed Posey last year, badly. And there’s no replacing him.
But I think Zaidi has done a great job correcting a lot of our weaknesses. Joc will hopefully only DH.
Super excited to see Harrison and Schmitt. Everyone is going to fall for Schmitt, he is the real deal. We might see Dabovich and Vaun Brown too.
Mainstream media and social media loves to crap on us or ignore us, but we like it that way. The game is played on the field, not in the little minds of the negative “experts” on here.
See you soon for spring training TellItGoodbye!!!
Agnes, and others, what’s ironic is that on one hand “fans” complain SF doesn’t develope players and on the other hand complain they don’t spend. YOU CANT DO BOTH!! Under Evans/Sabean they made that mistake spending on Cueto/Samardzija and getting McCutcheon. They get Sabol who is highly regarded–enough to be a Rule 5 pick. So essentially, a high prospect, albeit from a different organization. But a prospect none the less. If, big if, they want to attempt a mid-season trade for Ohtani, they need to hold on to prospects. BUT, then you have to hope he stays with Giants in free agency. So, I agree with you Agnes. Time for the farm to step up. And they can’t if they’re blocked. Therefore the opt out contracts. Zaidi is hoping those prospects step up, and they possibly will. For every Matos regression there’s a Vaun Brown progression. Luciano vs Scmidt. Arteaga vs Will Wilson. There’re many of these examples. Mason Black. McCray. There will be an addition or 2 to come, I believe. Always happens in spring training cuz someone gets hurt or shows they “don’t have it”. My eyes are on Wade at first, Sabol/Wynne and Villar. Sorry for the length.
100000% agree with you on this post. Thank you for sharing the POSITIVE vibes with this chat. We will still have a solid season next year and who knows, maybe we’ll find “lightning in a bottle”! I’m looking forward to next season and GO Gigantes!!!
When your hope for lightning in a bottle that says all you need to say about the 2023 giants roster.
So Simms, spend? Remember last year? Castellanos, one of many that posters demanded be signed. One of many that flopped. This isn’t Back To The Future where we know who flops or doesn’t flop. The reason for the Rodon contract of last year. He could have flopped, but didn’t. SF knew the risk but they don’t give out LONG and EXPENSIVE contracts–for good reason. How’s that Story contract working out for Rsox? Castellanos and Story, are 2 of many examples of the “bottle” lacking lightning. 2021 was not a fluke. They were at near the top in virtually every team stat. In pitching, hitting and defense. But had nobody hit 30 hrs. There was no lightning involved and it can happen again. Remember the Mariners losing Arod? They won 116 games the next season.
yeah I mean technically Judge didn’t really have any intention of leaving the yankees and was using the giants to run up the bill – which means that signing haniger, conforto and returning pederson is kind of the best OF signings on the market outside of nimmo and they all came over. The rotation is missing that dual ace but has depth and a couple of reclamation guys. The back of the bullpen now has 3 closers and is looking pretty strong. there should be at least 2 -3 contributors coming out of AAA in diaz, schmitt and harrison and possibly luciano later in the season if he is healthy and on track. It is missing the superstar but the upside is there to do well enough to go into the post season even if fringy.
@agnes – Thank you for this! It’s so frustrating I had to scroll THIS far before I find a post that isn’t spreading unnecessary hate towards the Giants.
I too liked the Giants moves this offseason. The Giants are in a pretty bad place coming out of a rebuild in a division with two juggernauts. Yet, they still made a solid effort, making more moves and spending more than many other teams (all while fans were crying how cheap Farhan and the Giants were), and adding mid-to-high reward talent.
Will it work? We’ll see! This is their first year of planned relevance, so all they need to do is be competitive. They can add pieces mid-season, and continue to build the team for years to come, and have the payroll space (and willingness to spend) to do it.
@ Agnes
I can only hope that the majority of the negative commenters are just rival trolls and not real fans.
I’m with you on getting onboard with the youth movement for the next couple years. We do have some prospects getting close and no long term deals to block them.
Only time will tell on the big name deals we missed/passed on. Not gonna dwell on it. I think the roster is better than the last two years. One of those teams surprised everyone.
San Francisco is planning a huge offseason spending spree, with top free agent and Sacramento-born superstar Aaron Judge (who grew up a Giants fan) at the very top of their list. Zaidi feels very bold about what he’s going to do this offseason, warning San Diego and Los Angeles of his intentions.
Zaidi said that “no one is out of our capability” from a financial point of view, implying that the Giants will be in on most of the big names floating out there on the market. The Padres have made some big signings in the last few years, but they will have some serious intra-division competition in 2022.
Where’s the Zaidi that talked a big game? Now he says he isn’t spending Anymore money. He needs to shut up and worry about his own team instead of giving out warnings to the dodgers and Padres
He will be unemployed soon, so it really doesnt matter
I think their intentions were to sign Superstars but when it fell through they added small contracts. Enough small contracts that it equates to signing one player to a BIG contract. I can see his perspective though. Regardless if it’s a Costco purchase or dozens of Walmart purchases, it’s money and it spends the same lol
But to give out warnings that he’ll sign some big agent out there and doesn’t look foolish and childish.
@vegas
Are you referring to Farhan saying “From a financial standpoint, nobody is out of our capability. And then it’ll just be a question of whether there’s mutual interest”?
Judge was the Yankees to lose. If you’re a star player hot off a record 62 HR season for the freaking Yankees, what incentive would you have to leave? And the Giants did court Correa. It was unfortunate circumstances that unraveled such a deal, but there was plenty of evidence this offseason that Farhan could and would pay top dollar for players with, as he said, mutual interest.
And he still put a lot of money into making the team better without crippling payroll, so there’s no reason to believe he won’t be able to take on the salary of a player from a team, or make big moves next offseason.
Why is it that MLB is of the opinion that players who are on the 60 Day DL at seasons end magically heal after the World Series and remain so until the pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training when the players then become injured again and are returned to the 60 Day DL? Just another in the collection of archaic, outdated. illogical, senseless, and just plain stupid MLB rules that are in need of updating, improvement or just being eliminated.
Is this a real gripe?
Yes it is.
Injuries don’t go away just because the World Series ends.
An independent MLB Doctor could examine the players to ensure that they are indeed injured and can remain on the DL and prevent teams from creating phantom injuries to gain extra 40 man roster space.
The 40 man roster is yet another rule that needs revision.
It’s to stop potential 40 man roster abuse. You could throw a bunch of people on the 60 day after the WS and stash them during the longer than 60 day off season, while bringing in more people than other teams.
Sign Chad Pinder. He can play anywhere
That doesn’t mean he is good at playing anywhere.
The Giants use their entire roster so their team is generally built by improving weakest links. This type of team must have a great pen.
The Giants signed Haniger, Conforto, Manaea, Stripling, Rogers, Weaver and Pederson. Which I consider a strong B+ offseason so far. I thought paying 400mil to Judge or 350mil to Correa would have been a big mistake. I would like them to sign a couple more relievers (Britton, Moore, Smith, Fullmer, Knebel, Phelps etc..) and I expect Zaidi to make a trade or two before April.
As the Giants have proved by winning World Series from the wildcard spot, the only thing that matters is getting into the play-offs.
Nobody is going to keep up with the Mets or Padres spending wise. I thought Zaidi has ticked almost every box this offseason and keep in mind Kyle Harrison and Casey Schmitt are waiting in the wings.
Can’t really agree with spending 20 MM for a one dimensional DH.
He put up 144 WRC+ while earning $6m.
Love the fact they rewarded that effort. Should be more of it.
@jacksson – Why? It’s a one-year deal, and doesn’t block payroll. Joc is a known commodity that the team wanted back, so they paid (albeit a massive premium) for certainty.
If he hits anything like last year, the team will be more than happy with the contract they signed him to (regardless of whether it was an overpay).
The thing about Pederson is he was 5th in the MLB in exit velocity in 2022 (only Judge, Stanton, Schwarber and Yordan were higher). That along with the elimination of the shift is why he got the one year QO.
If he’s healthy, chances are he will rake and they won’t have to play him in the outfield in 2023.
Joc may end up a valuable trade piece also. His value may not be known until that possibility plays out.
The Joc deal made/makes perfect sense. They took him off the market right away. No way would he turn that down, and if he did, they would’ve gotten a draft pick. It truly was a no-brainer. And I agree that with the shift, uh, shifting, he could be poised for a monster year. In this market, his 2022 stats were pretty much worth $20M. Just one of many shrewd moves made by the Giants. And those opt out after one season moves are brilliant. Low risk/high reward, as you wait for the kids to make their way through the system. Sorry we lost Belt, I think he’s also poised for a comeback, but at least we will not be saddled with Longoria’s endless injuries, and LaStella is GONE! – greatest Giants news of the 21st century!
Your name makes for an ironic reply: Giants should try and trade Wilmer to the Mets for Eduardo Escobar.
I know SF just signed Flores to an extension and I love that guy but he’s a redundant player with the emergence of Villar and Schmitt coming soon. Escobar is a switch hitter who can also fill in at Short on an emergency basis behind Crawford and Estrada.
For the Mets, they get a great utility infielder in Wilmer who costs less than Escobar and has more power. And it’s a homecoming too.
On a larger note, Giants need to make some trades and clean up their 40 man roster. Ramos is looking like a bust but because he’s still young and has options he still has some value. Package him to Miami for pitching. And Luciano too although he should be part of a larger trade to acquire a player like Bryan Reynolds.
Emergence of Villar?
Flores has more power than Escobar?
Ramos has enough value for Miami pitching?
Luciano as package for Reynolds?
None of this is within reason
Hey Dave, I can’t disagree with your rationale. If Correa had signed with the Mets to play 3rd, Escobar would have been completely extraneous. But I think they’ll hold onto him. The Giants already got one of their 3rd basemen who raked for the Giants in August and September. JD Davis, Wilmer and Villar are all kind of redundant except Wilmer can play a passable 2nd base. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the three gets traded but I hope it’s not Wilmer because he’s such a great a clubhouse guy.
And I’d have to change my handle.
Wilmer-love your comments! For the bullpen, don’t forget we need room for our own prospects to potentially thrive. Cole Waites, RJ Dabovich, and maybe Mason Black could all be brought up this year to support the pen. Zaidi has drafted almost all arms the last two drafts so a few of them will be on the way. Carson Whisenhunt is already making a name for himself too!
@wilmer – Great post! The Giants were coming out of a rebuild into a division with a two-headed monster, so they filled in holes as best they could. They spent, in spite of a fanbase crying about how cheap they are. And I agree that the Giants do not have to run away with the division to be a successful team.
If you really want more positional flexibility you could (gasp) carry one pitcher less. Giants had 13 pitchers last year with 42 IP or higher. 16 pitchers got into at least 21 games. I know, it’s against established orthodoxy,
Going to be a good Bay Bridge series this year.
yep, a another way of stating, we are going to be cellar dwellers, because I don’t know what I’m doing and just winging it !! Maybe you can find someone injured since thats all he’s good for !!
This makes sense, as marginal upgrades on the fringe of the roster aren’t worth it. The roster is deep enough to aim for the Wild Card, but it’s not good enough to go all-in. Give the younger guys a long leash to essentially “try out” for a future role on this team. Let the likes of Estrada, Wade, and Villar get regular reps in the infield to see if they have a place on the Giants beyond this year.
If those players flop and the Giants are surprisingly in the playoff race, they can probably get affordable upgrades at the deadline. If they flop and the Giants are out of the race, they have a ton of appealing players to trade and they can continue to let them play through their struggles (or step aside for other younger guys).
I think Villar has a chance to solidify into a solid everyday third baseman, but I’m much more confident that he can become the infield version of Austin Slater — productive left-mashing utility piece in a part-time role. Wade was so clutch in 2021 that I’d love to see what he can do if his knee is back to health. Estrada was quietly good last year, but can he repeat and make defensive improvements?
Answering these questions is much more valuable than making marginal improvements at the back of the roster (though I wouldn’t mind another catcher on the 40-man roster… perhaps if Jackson heads to the 60-day IL)
I’m Excited for what the Giants could do next season. . They Led the majors in homers a few seasons ago. They get the most out of their players, if injuries don’t get too bogged down. They absolutely have got something going with the pitching side of things. They still need to push the minor leaguers a bit. That will come the next few seasons. Kapler has another season under his belt. And a full one at that with the DH. I thought the pinch hitting was Money 2 seasons ago. And that hurt Kapler’s wanting to make moves mentality last season.
DH leagues are all about load up on offense and sit back n watch.
I think the G’s don’t have to win the division. Get to 88/90 Wins and maybe win the Wild Card Game. See how far you can take it.
I am on board another 2 full seasons at least before I really start champing at the bit to maybe replace Anyone in the front office or dugout.
Well said, JayRyder. I agree with all of it – but especially your final sentence.
I have heard through the grapevine that the Giants are trying to talk George Santos in to coming out of retirement.
Nah, he’s a volleyball star, didn’t you hear?
The money the Giants have is not for the players, is to pay the doctors when almost everybody gets injured.
Sf fan, I thought the money was for Kapler’s beard cream, oh and his workout ‘cream’.
It doesn’t look good for the Giants but 2023 hasn’t started yet so not saying anything until it does. Farhan was the smartest guy 3 years ago according to most.
“It seems the Giants are pretty happy with all of the players in the mix at the moment”
I bet they really aren’t.
“I bet they really aren’t.”
Even if they are (which is unlikely), the fans aren’t.
This was supposed to be the season to spend and bring in a new franchise face (since they have not drafted one since Posey), and they failed spectacularly. I can appreciate the enthusiasm from a handful of die-hards here, but I’m not particularly interested in paying to watch a paper mache team of scrubs and buy-low injury types duke it out for 3rd or 4th place in the NL West.
Wake me up when this team signs some real talent, drafts an MLB-worthy star, or hires a new POBO.
Sorry to see you go. But if you really believe that this is a team made up of scrubs and buy-low injury types, despite 6 of the new signings being on the MLBTR top 50 FAs list, then I guess pessimism wins out for you. You can tune out, even before a single game been played, but I’ll still be a fan, and when the weather gets more fair you can come back.
And which of those new signings are you most proud of?
Conforto? He hasn’t played ball in years and is the definition of a buy-low injury type. Maybe there’s some magic there, or maybe it’s LaStella 2.0. Taylor Rogers is also a buy-low injury candidate.
Haniger? He strikes me as the second coming of McCutcheon or Longoria, guys who are fading into their 30s and likely to give little more than replacement value.
Pederson? This was a ridiculous overpay for a platoon DH bat.
The pitchers signed are all solid, but unspectacular arms; it’s like a rotation of #4 pitchers with the exception of a #2 in Webb.
I’m sorry, but these signings are mere placeholding moves…AGAIN. They were all fallback moves because SF failed to land any of the big fish. Even worse is that they did a great deal of harm to their image (in the Judge and Correa snafus) in cementing the perception that no star wants to play for this city, regardless of how much money they bandy about.
I think the fans deserve a lot better, frankly.
I’ll follow from afar, but I’m certainly not paying stadium prices to watch this faceless team at Oracle.
“Conforto? He hasn’t played ball in years…”
Years? Plural? He was out one year. The Mets thought highly enough of him to give him a QO. He’s just under 30 years old, and has a career 124 OPS+.
Actually I love the Haniger signing and had been hoping FZ could sign him. He has tremendous upside.
I’m not going to argue your every misconception. All I want to know is, do you seriously believe, if the Giants had a different PBO, that Judge would be playing for the Giants in 2023?
@scott
Which players would you have signed? Because frankly, you sound sort of like an ingrate.
I’ll get the “snafus’ out of the way first, because that is a very bad take. Short of the Yankees not offering a competitive contract, he was going back, full stop. That really isn’t all that shocking. And if no star player wanted to play in this city, the Correa “snafu” wouldn’t have happened in the first place. He would’ve taken the Mets contract initially, even at less money, because they have more star players. And while the situation was initially jarring, the fact the Mets had a similar outcome proves that it was not the Giants mishandling the situation, but unfortunate circumstances surrounding the player. If there are any star players that will not join the Giants strictly due to either of those reasons, that number is a rounding error at best.
As for the rest of the players, again, I ask, who would you have signed? It’s not as though the outfield was overflowing with talent. The best outfielders available were Nimmo, Benintendi, Haniger and Conforto. The Giants got two of those guys. Yes, Conforto comes with risk, but a lot of teams knew that and he was still a very popular target this offseason. The alternative to a guy like Conforto is playing a top prospect, with similar high risk/high reward value. The Giants don’t have that guy, so Conforto is a very solid risk to take. And your Haniger conjecture is purely emotion-based and ignores that he has been an above average hitter most of his career, so I’ll leave that one alone.
Finally, why does it matter if Joc was an overpay? Built into that overpay was some level of certainty that a guy who hit very well for them last season would be back, and if not, they’d get a draft pick. But it’s not as though he prohibited spending with his massive contract.
If you’re going to follow from afar, I’d prefer you just stay there.
You guys are welcome to be jazzed on the new additions; I’m not. Sorry! I would have preferred the Giants not extend their “retooling” or whatever you want to call it another year and instead signed Judge, Rodon and Turner or Bogaerts, especially after flashing their wad all over town. The Padres had no problem spending to bring in big talent, and they are way further downmarket of a team. It sucks to now be looking up at them.
When I look at this roster and compare it to last year’s .500 team, I see a weaker starting pitching staff, at least the same (if not more) injury risk in an aged or injury prone group of veterans on the field, and a lot of guys who need to prove that they still justify a roster spot, such as Wade Jr, Villar, etc.
You can pay $100 for your seat and garlic fries at Oracle; maybe they’ll add it to the pot for next year when they’ll make a disingenuous bid for Ohtani before inevitably pivoting to a rehabbing veteran or former Dodger from a decade ago in his place.
94 wins avg last 2 seasons….with OLD faces. Scott, guess what’s possible with new faces. BTW, Covid has had a dramatic effect on attendance. Work practices and commute habits have changed drastically. If you think having a big star will change that, think again. Sell outs every game AFTER 2014 and up to 2018. The Cueto/Samardziga/McCutcheon era affected attendance (btw, that’s pre Farhan. Judge had no plans to come here and played the Giants. Correa too risky. Turner wanted East Coast and to play with Harper and Rodon too much risk. Other big names would DEFINITELY not affect attendance any more than who they’ve signed. This Farhan blaming and hoping he gets fired? 94 win avg with the lower payroll? If I’m an owner I’m mad at that? Happy trails to you Scott
@scott
OK, so you’re the PBO or GM, and your offseason moves would be to get Judge, Rodon, Turner/Bogaerts. Be realistic.
Judge – The Giants practically offered him a blank check (so did the Padres, for what that’s worth). He chose to be on the Yankees. You were never going to get Judge.
Rodon – Rodon would have been great, but not for six years. And why are you so focused on Rodon’s upside and Conforto’s downside? I’ll grant you Rodon was successful more recently so there’s some merit there, but both players carry a healthy level of downside with their respective contract lengths. You’d really have to hope that Rodon’s shoulder, which got injured, then TJ surgery, then injured again, is 100% healed and will hold up for another six years.
Turner/Bogaerts – You’re operating under a heavy dose of hindsight. Both those players signed around the same time the Giants were pursuing Correa. In order for the Giants to have signed Bogaerts (I’ll get to Turner in a second) would’ve required completely bypassing Correa. Turner voiced his East Coast preference. Unless the Giants wanted to relocate solely in order to court Turner, it wasn’t happening. I’d speculate that if Correa had been healthy (again, at the time of the signing, we had no idea), but the Giants bypassed him to pursue the second or third best option, you would be complaining about that too.
Scottn59c:
“When I look at this roster and compare it to last year’s .500 team, I see a weaker starting pitching staff, at least the same (if not more) injury risk in an aged or injury prone group of veterans on the field,”
That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it, but I’d say your assessment just isn’t a very good one. Almost everything I’ve read sees the rotation as improved, it’s certainly deeper. And you do realize don’t you that 3 of the oldest position guys, that accounted for the majority of days on the IL, Longo, Belt, and La Stella, are all gone. Every player has injury risk, but I’d rather gamble on guys like Haniger, and Conforto, whose average age is more than 4 years younger than those 3.
@tad: You don’t have to like my assessment. I don’t know with 100% certainty that this team will be better or worse than last year, but neither do you. Yes, there’s an extra pitcher that the team can turn to when one of the five inevitably misses some time, but a whole lot of meh after Webb. Lots of guys who have the potential to get blown up after they see a lineup two or three times.
Hoping for good things from Conforto and Haniger, but they are not the top tier talent this team could have gotten. They’re fallback guys because the Giants whiffed on every marquee free agent they expressed interest in except Correa, who’s situation turned into a PR nightmare for this FO, and one that could have some bad repercussions into the future offseasons. There had been a narrative that impactful FAs are not interested in coming to SF at any price, and this offseason’s debacle did wonders to reinforce it.
@ disadvantage:
My understanding is that the Giants gave Judge an offer and then Judge took it back to NYY, who matched it (not exceeded it), and so Judge said, in effect, “great – good enough for me”. To land him, they would have probably had to overpay, but that’s what SF needs to do if they want to land a star. They are not the Yankees or the Dodgers. They didn’t offer enough to win that bid. I can see overpaying for Judge (or Ohtani or any other generational talent); I can see less reason to overpay for Pederson, a very one-dimensional platoon bat.
You answered your own question about why I’m hotter on Rodon than Conforto. Rodon proved his merit. Conforto has been out of the game for awhile, and he’d languished on the market for awhile, too. You guys can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that no one wanted to take a chance in signing him last year because his rehab was in question. Rodon proved his mettle in SF and the team never made any effort to pursue him, same as with Gausman, who was excellent last year. But the FO would rather sign 1 or 2 year deals with yesterday’s news, apparently. Even when they don’t need to keep cheaping out.
Maybe Turner/Bogaerts is hindsight bias, but frankly, I didn’t want Correa. I didn’t like the stink of his cheating, and he got his comeuppance this offseason. He’s someone I wish the Giants hadn’t pursued. As far as I’m concerned, that misfire was dodging a bullet, but it was also a trainwreck from a PR standpoint. To take a chance on Conforto with his injury history must have meant that Correa’s physical showed that he was not long for baseball.
@Claude:
You’re a good guy, and I like your takes, but I’m sorry to say that this offseason left me cold. I’m not planning to ride into the sunset, but I feel like this offseason involved a lot of retreats and fallbacks as opposed to offensive moves, so to speak. They ended up with what they did because they didn’t get what they were after.
The average of games won over the last two seasons doesn’t mean that much to me because they were night and day from one another. the 107 win team was clearly an anomaly, and a last-gasp/second wind from a number of vets who couldn’t duplicate it and who are now gone. Last year looked far more indicative of what treading-water moneyball moves result in. And that was fine for a team that was attempting to be competitive while retooling. But that was supposed to come to an end and not be indefinite. Farhan knew the fans were getting impatient for a star, and he started banging on the drum early in the offseason. But he fell flat in those pursuits and ended up looking both impotent and indigent (which is too bad, but it’s the truth).
I was happy to buy the moneyball/analytics schtick when the narrative was that the Giants were still waiting out bad contracts and attempting to build the farm. Last year, the farm unquestionably regressed, and even now that the bad contracts are finished, the team is still dabbling in buy-low moves and acting like a small-market club. I’ve started to question whether or not this front office is capable of shedding that stigma. I’m not a Farhan hater, but I think that this team has done some damage to its image and I’ve lost a lot of confidence in this front office.
I’m happy to be wrong, and I hope that I am. But I suspect that this offseason did very little to move the needle for ’23.
Scottn59c, I have said all along that I do not know how the season will go. But I’m willing to reserve judgement on Zaidi until I do know. You seem to be more sure they’ll be bad, than I am hopeful that they’ll be good.
“…Conforto and Haniger…are not the top tier talent this team could have gotten.”
But, yes they are. The only talent significantly better was Judge. Name a FA OFer that meets your criteria of “top tier talent”, or “marquee player”. The trouble with commenters like you is you complain of not signing a marquee player, without ever naming who that marquee player is.
That PR nightmare you speak of is in the minds of fans, not players. Not to to say that isn’t a problem, but nothing that happened this season is going to prevent FAs from signing with the Giants.
Which reminds me, you didn’t answer my question of whether a different Giants PBO would gotten Judge to sign with SF.
@scott
If we assume your narrative was 100% correct, then you just proved that the Giants never had a shot of signing him (short of the Yankees bowing out), full stop. In your scenario, he upped the bidding to a level he was comfortable with, took a number to the team he ultimately wanted to play for, they agreed to it, and then he signed. Not to mention, if it were strictly about dollars, he would be wearing a Padres jersey right now.
Outside using the word “overpay” in both sentences, Joc’s one-year contract isn’t even in the same stratosphere as Judge’s nine-year contract. Stop it with your outrageous comparisons. Yes, Joc was overpaid and a one-trick pony, but he does that trick very well. If he comes close to playing at the same level he did last year, it will still be an overpay, but that won’t matter if he helps the team win games.
You still failed to point out why Rodon’s risk doesn’t factor in for you, though. Because I agree, he was excellent last season and seemingly will do the same next year. But that doesn’t absolve him of the fact he is potentially a ticking timebomb. Or maybe not, but why go 6 years on the guy to find out? You may disagree and say go for it – the Yankees sure did – but it isn’t really a stretch to figure out why a team maybe wouldn’t do that.
Conforto was a hot ticket last off-season until we found out that he was post-rehabbing. Even knowing he was recovering from an injury just months prior, teams still had a post-draft interest in him. He obviously didn’t sign, likely due to a continuation of his recovery effort. This offseason, Conforto, with all his risk, still remained a hot ticket. According to MLBTR, the Rangers, Blue Jays, Mets, Rockies, Cubs, Marlins, Mariners, and Astros were all in on him before the Giants signed him. So yeah, “but I think that no one wanted to take a chance in signing him” is patently wrong. It also sort of sticks a fork in your narrative that the Giants aren’t willing to pay up for the player they want if they beat out teams like the Mets, Rangers, and to some degree the Astros.
Stop it with the PR trainwreck narrative as well. First, now that the situation has played out, we have seen that it was not only the Giants that felt Correa’s profile was unfit for a long-term contract. Second, they are still making deals with his agent. I think that shows more than anything that the Giants aren’t some dark cloud that free agents will avoid at all costs.
And it’s also fair that you personally liked Bogaerts more than Correa, but you have to play between the lines. The team you root for set out to sign the best shortstop they could, and prior to the fallout, did. While it was certainly unusual, there are some parallels between a team signing a player to a massive contract, only for them to get injured in the first game. That is, the willingness to sign the player was there, but the circumstances didn’t bear out favorably.
So sit tight. This may not have been the Cinderella offseason you hoped it would be. But be thankful that your team is at least willing to spend and get better. The team did what it could, signing 6 of the top 50 FAs, to get better, and it seems the best is yet to come.
Awesome ! See you.
San Francisco is a team without an identity. Barry Bonds stole that from them and took it with him. Bruce Bochy wrassled it back and they got 3 rings out of it. Bochy left everything in tact when he left.
Posey is a HOF catcher and team guy, which is great for the fans, but he’s not raping the teams bank account in the process, and his contract is spoken for in the budget.
IMHO, the Giants had to orchestrate these PR stunts to re-invigorate their very fair weathered by nature fan base. That was a nice way of referring to the overwhelming political climate in that dumpster fire of a city.
Posey retired after the 2021 season. Now he is part of the ownership group.
Re-read what I wrote and re-evaluate your summation.
At no point did I refer to Posey as an active player, however, I can see where I may have failed to include conclusive wording to indicate that I am aware of his current position with the team.
LA Coliseum? Nice neighborhood.
Oh, I moved out of California YEARS ago, specifically the Inland Empire region that is connected directly to Los Angeles by 80 miles of largely dilapidated concrete jungle.
Los Angeles is indeed a dumpster fire of a city as well, as is Portland, OR which just so happens to be about 5 miles away from my current location.
Those 3 cities and surrounding major geographic regions all have one thing in common…….how they vote.
Garbage.
What I don’t understand is, that while I have no idea for sure how well the Giants will do this season, there are a lot of people absolutely convinced that they know for sure that they’ll be bad. I see the possibility of them competing for a WC berth, though I won’t be shocked if bad luck intervenes to deny that.
But I look at last year, when they had their share of bad luck, but were still a .500 team. Losing Rodon doesn’t help, but the rotation has gotten much deeper. The relief corps, which was terrible last season is much improved. The offense should be better., and so will the defense with Joc moved to DH. They are improved in all aspects from that 81 win team.
So again I just don’t understand those posting definitive statements as if they have absolute knowledge that the Giants will be bad. It seems I remember similar types of posts going into the 2021 season. Not saying they’ll win 107, 100, or even 90 games, though 90 is a possibility. But a lot of the same people predicting failure in 2021 are the same people predicting failure again, and their credibility already in question, could take a nose dive.
What if the bad talent intervenes?
@Dennis
What does that even mean? And why are you playing the what-if game before the season even starts?
Dennis Boyd, What a stupid comment. How about some specifics? Stats? Or are you just making a huge sweeping assessment that the entire Giants roster is completely devoid of talent? Ridiculous.
Yeah, I really don’t understand the hate. They have an owner willing to spend, and the team made some moves to make the team more competitive. In a division containing the Dodgers and Padres while the Giants are working their way out of a pseudo-rebuild, that’s not only the best you can ask for, but they also made a darn solid effort while not crippling their future financially or trading away our prospects.
My theories are (a) they have convenient scapegoats in Farhan and Kapler, and/or (b) the 107-win season set sky-high expectations, but I wish our fans would just enjoy the team and get excited that they are trying to get better, and for years to come.
I think they put Erik Miller on the 40 man if Jackson does in fact go on the 60-day injured list
skull, isnt Miller also rehabbing or am I mistaken
nevermind skull, miller’s issue is control but he is healthy