The Hall of Fame announced this evening that third baseman Scott Rolen has been elected by the Baseball Writers Association of America. He is the only player inducted by the BBWAA in this year’s election cycle. He will be inducted alongside first baseman Fred McGriff, who was previously elected by the Era Committee.
Rolen received 76.3% of the vote, just above the 75% required for induction. A few players just under that line were Todd Helton at 72.2%, Billy Wagner at 68.1% and Andruw Jones at 58.1%. Here are the full results, per the BBWAA.
A native of Indiana, Rolen was selected by the Phillies in the second round of the 1993 draft. He made his way up to the majors and debuted in 1996 when he was just 21 years old. He hit at a below-average rate in that 37-game debut but he truly broke out the next year. In 1997, he hit 21 home runs and stole 16 bases en route to a batting line of .283/.377/.469. That production was 21% better than the league average hitter that year, as evidenced by his 121 wRC+. He was crowned the National League Rookie of the Year for that campaign.
Rolen would go on to contribute in similar fashion for the Phillies over the next few seasons. He hit between 25 and 34 homers in each season from 1998 to 2004 while also swiping at least eight bases in all but the last season of that stretch. His excellent third base defense started to be recognized during this period as well, as he won a Gold Glove award in 1998. That was the first of eight such awards he would eventually win.
That period included a trade to the Cardinals in 2002, a team for whom he would have some of his best seasons. The standout season of his career was 2004, where Rolen went deep 34 times and produced a batting line of .314/.409/.598. His wRC+ was 159 and his stellar defense led to him racking up 9.0 wins above replacement on the year, per the calculations at FanGraphs. Only Barry Bonds and Adrian Beltre were able to best him in terms of fWAR that year. Bonds took home the National League Most Valuable Player award that year with Rolen in fourth place in the voting, also trailing Beltre and Albert Pujols.
In 2005, he played just 56 games before injuring his shoulder and eventually requiring season-ending surgery. He got back on track in 2006 with another strong season, hitting 22 home runs and producing at an above-average level. The Cards won the National League Central division and eventually went on to win the World Series over the Tigers. Rolen played one more season in St. Louis but was traded to the Blue Jays prior to the 2008 season. He spent a season and a half in Toronto before getting dealt to the Reds, where he played out the remainder of his career. Over 17 MLB seasons, he hit 316 home runs, scored 1,211 runs, drove in 1,287, and stole 118 bases. He made seven All-Star teams, won eight Gold Gloves, a Rookie of the Year award and a World Series.
In 2018, he appeared on the Hall of Fame ballot for the first time. He garnered 10.2% of the vote, well below the 75% threshold for admittance but well above the 5% minimum required to stay on the ballot. His vote share grew to 17.2%, 35.3%, 52.9% and 63.2% in the subsequent years, finally getting over the hump here in 2023. MLBTR congratulates him on his induction.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
themed
Yes
Steve Nebraska
Who were the next closest players? How close were Wagner and Helton? I thought they both had a decent chance. Wagner is arguably better than Hoffman as one of the best relievers of all time.
LouWhitakerHOF
Scott Rolen 297 (76.3%), Todd Helton 281 (72.2), Billy Wagner 265 (68.1), Andruw Jones
226 (58.1), Gary Sheffield 214 (55.0), Carlos Beltrán 181 (46.5), Jeff Kent 181 (46.5), Alex
Rodríguez 139 (35.7), Manny Ramírez 129 (33.2), Omar Vizquel 76 (19.5), Andy Pettitte 66 (17.0), Bobby Abreu 60 (15.4), Jimmy Rollins 50 (12.9), Mark Buehrle 42 (10.8), Francisco Rodríguez 42
(10.8), Torii Hunter 27 (6.9), Bronson Arroyo 1 (0.3), R.A. Dickey 1 (0.3), John Lackey 1 (0.3),
Mike Napoli I (0.3), Huston Street 1 (0.3), Matt Cain O, Jacoby Ellsbury 0, Andre Ethier 0, J.J.
Hardy 0, Jhonny Peralta 0, Jered Weaver 0, Jayson Werth O.
SODOMOJO
Does Andruw Jones have steroid residue on his name? Incredible to me that he is not in.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Whoever chose Torii Hunter should be disqualified for life.
inkstainedscribe
His career BA wasn’t great, and some of the voters think that’s important. Also, his career collapsed (including his defense) and he continued hanging on a few years too long. I still think he gets in next year. When he could play, he was as good as anyone.
SODOMOJO
Watched a lot of him via TBS and he’s the best center fielder I’ve ever seen next to Junior. He was incredible out there. In my mind, 10 gold gloves means you were the best at your position for an entire half generation; and you need to be a hof. Let alone, the 150 steals, consistent 25+ home run power, 1200 rbis, and all of the WINNING he did. I know he was never a high average guy and that’s a great point; but it feels almost manufactured to me that he’s not in yet.
case
Seriously though, who voted for Mike Napoli… does he have a bunch of family members on the committee?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Napoli’s 2011 season? Clearly not a HoF ofc
Steve Nebraska
@SODOMOJO: Andruw has no steroid residue. He’s never been suspected or accused or failed a test. The knock on him is the same knock on Dale Murphy. People say his career was too short. Even so, he has to make it in. Defensive Rating has Andruw as the best defensive outfielder of all time. The 2nd best is Willie Mays. Mays is ranked significantly higher than the 3rd best but Andruw is ranked noticeably better than Mays. Andruw won 10 consecutive Gold Glove awards in center field for lords sake. On top of that he hit over 430 home runs. It used to be that no matter what position 500 home runs made a player a first ballot hall of famer. A 10 time gold clove center fielder with the highest defensive rating ever +434 home runs has to make it in easy. Especially with no steroid suspicion. All of those gold gloves at a premier position like center have to be worth more than an extra 60 home runs or so. I think Helton and Wagner both eventually make it in too. I doubt any of the other players on this list do though because of either performance or steroid “residue” like you said. There’s no issue with that for Andruw Jones though.
SODOMOJO
Great stuff @Steve Nebraska. The hill I’ll die on with him is the 10 gold gloves. I don’t think there’s any excuse for a guy to NOT be in with 10 gold gloves. I know I know, palmerio won that ugly one in ‘99 or whatever….but as you More eloquently put it….by the numbers, Andruw is the goat center fielder. I think most guys who grew up watching him like me, we don’t need the numbers to tell us that. Combined with his consistent all star caliber offensive ability; im reaching for reasons as to why he’s not in. It’s truly baffling to me to knock the guy for not playing deep into his 30’s. His hof body of work was complete before he ever left ATL.
SODOMOJO
Also; he has that outlier 51 home run season, that’s really the basis of any steroid consideration on my end. Probably not fair, but that’s what we’re left with from that era
Astros2017&22Champs
Andruw jones was completely finished by 30 years old. Who knows if that was his true age. But the hall of fame is extremely watered down now. Harold Baines got in and now everyone gets in.
case
How do you even incorporate Willie Mays into a serious discussion of defensive metrics? Teams weren’t even aware of data science yet, let alone hiring firms to monitor and track defensive performances on a play by play basis.
Astros2017&22Champs
You and I see a different game. Jim edmonds was the more complete cfer over jones and hes not in. Defense is nice but it is not the end all be all. Hitting matters. Andruw jones is overrated.
raisinsss
Technically it’s incorrectly written as Mike Napoli I, not 1.
Maybe the article is hinting at a Mike Napoli Jr.
Related to Anthony Napoli, host of The Hunk?
hiflew
Hopefully not a bunch since he only got one vote.
Hawkeye75
Gold Gloves really shouldn’t be a huge measuring stick. For a good long while, Gold Gloves were a popularity contest. 10 Gloves is really good, but not the end all be all.
Zerbs63
Incredible that Andruw effing Jones got that high a percentage of votes. He was fat out of shape and awful by the time he was 30. He was about a .250 career hitter and didn’t even hit 500 career home runs. Why should he get in?
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
His outfield assists, fielding percentage, and range, along with more subjective defensive measures, make him stand out as a legendary fielder. Even Torii Hunter won gold gloves, but still, it means something.
SODOMOJO
1 or 2? Ok. You might have gotten lucky.
10? You are obviously one of the best fielders of your era. You’re not going to get “lucky” or “sympathy” award 10 times.
That’s where I’m coming from with that. The awards themselves don’t mean Jack, but for you to have 10 IN A ROW; I don’t see how anybody can question your top of the league prowess defensively; and therefore, among the greats in the history of the game.
raisinsss
Bro did you even watch Andruw Jones play CF at all?
Halo11Fan
In my opinion he’s worthy, but he wasn’t a good hitter, just ok for an outfielder. Some voters don’t seem to realize defense matters, and he was a great defender.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
@Halo That may be true of Torii Hunter, but certainly not Andruw Jones. What do you mean he was ok for an outfielder but a great defender?
Sunday Lasagna
@Dylan If gold gloves aren’t a measuring stick (and I don’t think they should be either as they have been at times about popularity) then what separates Scott Rolen 122 OPS+ 122 wRC+ from Ron Cey 121 OPS+ 123wRC+ ?
LouWhitakerHOF
Hunter was considered the best defensive high school center fielder ever. One of the best defensive outfielders in mlb history. Put up 2500 hits, over 350 homers, 200 SBs. I think he was a great player.
CardsFan57
Borderline case offensively but his defense should get him in. He was other worldly for ten years in center.
CardsFan57
The numbers say he was better than junior.
rct
Weird to me that Helton is on the cusp while Bobby Abreu gets almost no support. Looking at his stats, they’re remarkable similar and I would even give a slight edge to Abreu.
CardsFan57
As you can see I’m a Cardinal fan. Jones was a step up from Edmonds. Edmonds was a great centerfielder. Jones was the best.
Halo11Fan
Jones 111 OPS +. An OBP of 337. Hunter 110 OPS+. A 330 lifetime OBP,
Jones belongs in the hall, Hunter was not the fielder and doesn’t.
Yankee Clipper
Yeah, but even without all the GG, Andrew was arguably the best defensive CF (or OF) of his era, by many subjective and objective measures. He had defensive statistics, although not as comprehensive as today, plus anyone who watched him play defense – that’s players, coaches, fans.
I view Andruw’s defense in this way: Andruw was to CF what Yadi was to C. It’s not a perfect analogy but one that immediately comes to mind.
Astros2017&22Champs
Edmonds was a superior hitter to jones lol. The defense is a wash.
mj-2
Andruw Jones is probably the best CF to ever step on the field. Not just in his era. All time.
The gold gloves themselves don’t mean much. It’s more about how much better he was at the position than everyone else.
Torii Hunter and Edmunds also have gold gloves but weren’t on the same level as Jones. Not trying to take anything away from them, but balls Hunter and Edmunds dove for Jones would be standing underneath.
Those old enough to have watched Jones probably know what I’m talking about.
Ancient Pistol
Better than Mantle, Mays, etc…?
cornwhisperer
Rolen was a good player. But since Harold Baines’s induction, it’s anyone’s guess as to what exactly constitutes being “an all time great”
You wonder if it’s become more a popularity contest than anything else
Rsox
Jones, if he retired after the 2007 season is a first ballot Hall of Famer, Problem is he didn’t. The 5 seasons he played following his run in Atlanta tarnished his HoF trajectory big time
This one belongs to the Reds
Anyone who thinks hitting is all that matters doesn’t know baseball.
CardsFan57
I think so.
Rsox
Defensively he fell off the map and ballooned in size, he couldn’t even really play CF after 2008
ilikesports
First of all, I’m a huge Twins fan and grew up watching Tori Hunter own CF. But also, is it so outlandish that he should gather an HOF vote? 9 time gold glove, 5 time all star. Career .277/.331/.461 hitter with 110 OPS+. Nearly 2.5k hits with like 350 HRs. Not saying he’s HOF worthy at this early stage for him, but it’s not crazy for him to get a vote.
Eliteb43
Does .3 mean somebody voted for Mike Napoli? That’s a waste of a vote and that person should be stripped of their privilege to cast a vote
darylict
Perhaps some writers still think about the person, not just the player – I don’t care for wife beaters, myself. He was good, but probably not even the best all around CF to not go into the hall – that title goes to Kenny Lofton, imo.
Steve Nebraska
@case: It was different back then for sure but the metric still holds Mays as one of the top 2 outfielders of all time… and by a wide margin. The knock against Mays was that he and the Giants openly said he would play “out of position to make flashy plays to bring attention to the team.” The knock against Andruw is “Andruw always played the exact right position and made the play look too easy.” Mays and the Giants have both admitted this is what Mays did to keep the fans excited during losing seasons. Andruw didn’t do that. That’s the knock. He didn’t play deep to rob home runs. He played shallow to rob doubles but then still robbed a ton of home runs on top of that. What’s more effective at helping a team win games?
And the “defensive metric” still lists Mays as one of the top 2 all time so you know it’s not BS. The metrics may have not existed back then but the videos still exist and the analysts can watch them. That’s how they compare Mays. By video and stats. It’s not like every new metric is impossible to compare to anyone who played before it. That’s not knock on Mays. He was notorious for playing out of position to make flashy plays while Andruw would always make sure he was in the right position from the start. It’s not a knock on Mays because he is still top 2 even considering that nonsense. Andruw played the position better. The stats show it. The stats also show that Mays is top 2 all time. That’s not bogus considering Mays intentionally played out of position frequently “to make flashy plays.” Andruw wasn’t worried about “flashy plays.” Andruw was worried about winning. Who is better? The metrics tell you and logic tells you that answer. Mays was great though. Best of all time. Until Andruw showed up.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
Reading this about Mays playing out of position makes me hate him even more, and it furthers my perception that he was greatly overrated.
Dock_Elvis
The knock on Dale Murphy was a short career? I think maybe youre getting that backwards
Dock_Elvis
Exactly..if the bar is Harold Baines we’re letting a lot of players in
Dock_Elvis
What I don’t get is this “early stage” concept for the Hall. What changes? Either you are are you arent.
Dock_Elvis
There’s a TON of subjective opinion in your thesis paper
Fg-3
His career was not short. He never won a mvp. Yes GG is a great achievement but he def has a steroid cloud on him with his 50 hr season
Fg-3
There is no way Rolen.. jones .. and Helton should be in. I go with Wagner I go Murphy.. maybe Edmonds because he’s a highlight reel! Did any of you stop whatever you were doing to watch Rolen? Or Helton? Don’t think so. You did with Bonds Manny Arod and Sheffield. That’s what the HOF is about. All the Harold Baines an Rolen’s that just cheapens the hall. I’m a New Yorker and I’d rather see Straw and Doc in the hall because I’d pay too money to see them. Unless you were family your not buying a ticket to see Scott Rolen
mrbrklyn
I agree that Lou Whitaker is the BIGGEST oversite of the HoF – more than anyone else the committees have reviewed, he should had been in the HoF a long time ago.
slider32
I think if you are the best at something you should get in the Hall, Jones on his defense, and Kent on his offense. To be honest, untill Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod get in I look at the Hall as a bunch of hypocrites. I played in the minors, and everyone was cheating. The best players need to be in. Over half the games that were played were determined by players who were cheating in the last 50 years, maybe 75%
Lanidrac
I don’t know if Edmonds had a better career than Jones, but I do think it’s ridiculous that he and Kenny Lofton didn’t even meet the 5% threshold on their first ballots. They’d probably be in a similar position to Jones by now had they managed to stay on the ballot.
Lanidrac
That’s just how amazing Jones was in his 20s, and there are a number of even first ballot Hall of Famers who hit 400 but not 500 home runs like Lou Gehrig and Stan Musial. Heck, Joe DiMaggio didn’t even hit 400 home runs.
Lanidrac
That’s true, but you still have to hit to a certain degree to combine with that amazing defense to make a case for the Hall of Fame (not that it’s an issue for Jones save for the longevity argument). Even Ozzie Smith wouldn’t be a Hall of Famer had he not also racked up over 2,000 hits and over 500 stolen bases.
There’s also a difference between just winning Gold Gloves and being among the best defenders at your position in MLB history. Even before the domestic violations against him came out, the majority of people didn’t consider Omar Visquel to be a Hall of Famer despite winning 11 Gold Gloves and getting over 2,800 hits.
LouWhitakerHOF
Which player is better?
Player A – 2460 hits, 1257 runs, 28 hrs, 793 rbis, .262 BA
Player B – 2977 hits, 1445 runs, 80 hrs, 951 rbis, .272 BA
Both were great defensively. Player A is in the HOF. Player B never even close to making it
Smith, Vizquel
LeGrandBleu
DiMaggio enlisted for WW2 and therefore missed three years – ages 28, 29, and 30. That took about 100 hrs and 500 hits from his career totals.
Halo11Fan
Selective stats stats without context and defense are meaningless.
SODOMOJO
In my opinion, Omar should be in as well. He fits the “generational fielder” role as Andrew does. In my mind, that’s enough to get you in. If you were the absolute best, or clearly, one of the top 3 or so at something in the game for a decade….you should rightfully be commemorated. It is hard to make it 5 years in the mlb. Say what you will about the award, and tbh I am glad that my inclusion of the award has sparked a bit of debate there, as conversation needs to be directed there in my opinion; ignore the awards all you want; it is incredibly rare to have 5 seasons in a row worthy of a gold glove. Injuries, inconsistencies, things happen.
Druw did it 10 times in a row, man. I really do believe that it should be respected. And if not, then why give out the award!?! Get rid of it. If you’re not going to use it as a measuring stick, why does it exist; as a measuring stick?
Of course it’s never been a perfect process, and there are some abhorrent examples of poor gold glove winners. I am
Completely cognizant of this and recognize the trepidation of other fans.
The BIG difference between a guy like Omar; one of those pure defensive first guys…and Druw…..Andruws defensive prowess gets him in the same conversation with these guys.
THEN. You tack on his ABOVE AVERAGE offensive numbers…to that generational defensive talent. And you have what I think most baseball fans would consider a shoe in.
LordD99
@Louwhitaker, completely misleading.
This one belongs to the Reds
Well, shortstop traditionally is NOT an offensive position and neither is 2B or CF or even C with the obvious exceptions who were. But the great majority are not offensive players but there for the defense.
Now the stats boys are going to say that’s the game of the past but if you really look around at those in the league there at those positions, not so much. That’s why when I saw the Michael Taylor dissing at hitting .254 with those CF skills, I have to laugh.
brooklyn62
Amen,brother!Rolen is another entry in the Hall Of Pretty Good! I can’t get excited about Rolen in the pantheon of baseball sainthood.
I’m sure I will be assailed by all the stat heads for making such a blasphemous comment!
This one belongs to the Reds
Willie Mays missed a year and a half due to military service. He might have broken the home run record before Aaron if not for that.
Ted Williams and Bob Feller missed a whole lot more than that.
CardsFan57
As a Cardinal fan I saw Edmunds doing the same thing as Mays. Some of his diving plays were not necessary but they always made the highlight reel.
Zerbs63
Yes I did he waddled around out there.
CujoMarlin
Interesting debate. Jimmy played a more aggressive CF, in my opinion, and made more spectacular plays and perhaps was better in the sense of making a larger impact in a game. Jones covered more ground and made more plays. I can see saying Jones was better, but I liked Jimmy more. Plus, Jimmy is a better broadcaster.
CujoMarlin
Did you just compare Andruw Jones to Musial, DiMaggio and Gehrig and use offensive prowess to make that comparison?
Lanidrac
Smith was the greatest defensive shortstop in MLB history. Vizquel was good enough defensively to win a bunch of Gold Gloves but still not in the same league defensively as the Wizard.
Lanidrac
…which would’ve still left DiMaggio well shy of 500 home runs.
Lanidrac
No, Vizquel was a great fielder but *not* generationally good.
Lanidrac
For the guys whose cases depend highly on their defense, you can’t exactly “stop and watch” them play defense when you don’t know in advance when they’ll have a chance to make a play.
SODOMOJO
“No, Vizquel was a great fielder but *not* generationally good.”
There are many, many people out there who would vehemently disagree with your stance.
In fact, if you go by fielding percentage (certainly only one facet of the equation, absolutely….but is there any component to defense MORE important than always making the routine play?) Vizquel is the best fielding short stop in the modern era, not just his generation. He is at the top of that list.
6 times Vizquel finished with the best fielding percentage in baseball. 13 times, he finished in the top 3. Incredible consistency.
Where is your bar for “generational ss?”
Lanidrac
Fielding percentage is only a minor facet of great defense. Yes, Vizquel could make the routine plays, but he didn’t have the same range to make the great plays as guys like Ozzie Smith could. Ground balls that a truly great defensive shortstop would either turn into (a) spectacular out(s), a hit on a close play, or occasionally an error would *all* be hits that got by Vizquel *completely*.
SODOMOJO
Peak Wagner has got to be the scariest reliever ever. Randy Johnson esque fastball/slider combo as a closer. I know Mariano had the goat cutter, but damn, it had to be intimidating stepping in the box to face wags.
ChuckyNJ
Wagner missed out by 27 votes and Helton by 11. One good omen for Helton next year: anyone who’s gotten that close to election by the writers eventually makes it in.
hiflew
Except Schilling so far.
mrkinsm
Helton was 11 votes shy, Wagner 26…both are set to make it next year.
The Big Yo
All your questions are answered in the first paragraph ya dope
Canosucks
Scott Rolen gets in and Billy Wagner doesn’t…. total BS!!! Joke!!!!
mrkinsm
Wagner will get in next year…cool your jets.
TrueOutcomeFan
First good take you’ve had on this site, themed
Deadguy
Had it not been for lingering shoulder issues first suffered in 2002 NLDS in Arizona I believe Scott Rolen might have been a first ballot hall of famer? He never truly was himself after 2005
cainer18
He was one of my favorite under-the-radar stars when I was a kid. He was so consistent, produced with the bat, and made some of the slickest plays at third base I’ve ever seen. Stoked to see him go into Cooperstown
Bart Harley Jarvis
Scott Rolen was an absolutely amazing 3rd baseman and a great hitter. What’s a bit of a shame is he was such a curmudgeon, he talked his way off at least two teams, maybe three. He burned a bridge leaving Philadelphia, and it seemed the Cardinals couldn’t wait to unload him when they finally did.
A HoF player, but probably not HoF clubhouse presence.
This one belongs to the Reds
I disagree. In Cincinnati, he was a great clubhouse presence. It was noted a lot more than once by younger guys like Votto and Bruce even to this day.
If he was just a clubhouse cancer, why did Walt Jocketty trade for him twice?
Bart Harley Jarvis
Scott Rolen couldn’t play for either of his managers (Bowa or LaRussa) while in the prime of his career. He couldn’t remain happy in ‘baseball heaven’, St. Louis. These situations were documented.
Scott Rolen was a shell of the player he once was when he arrived in Cincinnati. With age, sometimes comes wisdom. You’ll need to search elsewhere for Walt Jocketty’s tolerances and motivations.
CardsFan57
Rolen and LaRussa didn’t get along. That’s all there was there. Frankly LaRussa was a great manager but someone I’d hate to be around. He was also vindictive when you got on his bad side. Rolen couldn’t wait to get out once they started butting heads. The entire thing was about whether Rolen was healthy enough to play when his shoulder was hurting him. Rolen wanted to play. LaRussa started calling him out in press conferences for trying to play through an injury.
Bart Harley Jarvis
And Rolen couldn’t play for Larry Bowa, who was also a hard head. But the other 24 players on the roster could, and didn’t ask to be traded. Rolen was a grouchy old man, even when he was young. I remember his Phillies clubhouse interviews vividly.
CardsFan57
Rolen never said a word until LaRussa started calling him out in press conferences. It quickly went down hill from there. 2006 was a very difficult year for injuries. Rolen became something of a scapegoat for trying to play through the pain. I think Pujols or Edmunds would have also demanded a trade under the same circumstances. LaRussa would have never dared call out Pujols though. Pujols was his golden ticket. LaRussa is the same guy who once brought a bat to an after game press conference for the purpose of menacing reporters into softening their questions. Great manager. He’s not a great guy unless he sees you as one of his meal tickets.
CujoMarlin
I disagree. He played more aggressive positioning (shallow). This was strategic to cut off bloops, not to make more diving plays. It certainly would lead to needing to travel more for balls over his head, but that is what they thought was best, right or wrong. I don’t think it was to be a hot dog.
Wilmer the Thrillmer
Well deserved!
Saint Nick
Terrible. HOF is such a joke.
MattyD 2
How so? His numbers stack up very well when you look at them
Ebouch25
To who? Other players unworthy of the HOF. Small hall all day.
capnfatback
You forgot to tell us to get off the lawn, Methuselah.
cainer18
@capnfatback Back in my day, we didn’t have to yell at kids to get off our lawns because they were all working at the mill. Damn these child labor laws
Bart Harley Jarvis
@cainer18,
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
mlbtrsks
You have a problem with people exercising private property rights?
Bart Harley Jarvis
Pepperidge Farms and I are both cool with PPRs.
case
They stack up even better when you consider how many of the other players were average/bad defensively.
LonnieB
How has Andrew Jones not got in yet? I get his last years were terrible but 10 gold gloves and 400+ homers. Only 4 guys have done that. All 3 others are in……
SODOMOJO
@Lonnie, I wonder if that 50 home run season raised enough eyebrows that he’s been blacklisted by some writers? Pigeon holed as a steroid guy?
LonnieB
They’ve never actually brought that up as far as I know. I’ve never even heard a rumor of him and steroids
YankeesBleacherCreature
I think Jones will eventually get in… via HOF committee. This year, it was a weaker ballot cast and he fell way short. Next year, we’ll have Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer joining.
SODOMOJO
Adrian Beltre is another guy with one big offensive outlier season, at the tail end of the steroid era.
YankeesBleacherCreature
@SODOMOJO If that’s the basis of reasoning for user suspects, then why aren’t singles hitters who turn into doubles machines under the same dark cloud? Jones’ demerits has always been his quick decline.
SODOMOJO
I certainly don’t KNOW that it’s the basis of reasoning for user suspects….just my perspective from the outside. Somebody should ask a writer if that’s what’s up with Jones. I could be totally off on my speculation.
SODOMOJO
I actually thought Jones could have kept playing when he retired. He was still hitting home runs at a 25 per season clip at DH for the Yanks. Shoot, the year before he quit he even had an obp higher than .350 to go with the power
hiflew
Beltre, to me, is reminiscent of Paul Molitor. Midway through his career, I don’t think anyone thought of him as being lucky to even make the HOF ballot. But a late career pushed him into the no doubt stage like Molitor.. Heck, I remember when Beltre was viewed as one of the worst free agent signings of all time in Seattle.
tstats
Beltre is gonna be a first ballot HOF giving 4 HOFs next year from the BBWAA if they dont f- it up. Helton Wagner Beltran and Beltre should all go in next cycle
BuJoBi
I agree, I don’t think Rolen is hofer, but I may be biased. For me as a jays fan the best thing about Rolen was trading him for Encarnacion.
SODOMOJO
Oh man. Juan Encarnacion. Now there’s a name I haven’t heard in many moons. He was always on my tv in October during the playoffs, no matter where he was playing. He was on track to becoming the “Robert Horry” of the MLB
SODOMOJO
Oh wow! The Jays unloaded an old Rolen for a yet to peak EDWIN Encarnacion. I’m getting old!!!
Tassix
Yeah Toronto won pretty big on the garbage pile grabs of Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion
SODOMOJO
If I remember correctly, Edwin was a late bloomer. He was a top prospect for several years, flashed during a couple seasons but didn’t really hit until they put him next to Bautista and he started getting more fastballs….the rest was history
CardsFan57
You saw Rolen after an injury changed his career. Before that injury he was on trajectory for no doubt HOF status.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
When I looked at his stats on an article in The Athletic, I thought, “Hall of Very Good.” Then I went to baseball reference. 70.1 career bWAR changed my mind. His offensive numbers don’t jump off the page, but his defense pushes him over the top. For those who question whether he belongs, Frank Thomas was at 73.8, Jeter at 71.3, Gwynn at 69.2, all of them with at least two more seasons. Rolen deserves it.
DTD/ATL1313
And that’s why you don’t go off of WAR for anything. Rolen can’t hold the jocks of any of those players you mentioned.
Ted
Why not? Because you don’t care about defense?
Rolen and Jeter aren’t in the same universe defensively
Astros2017&22Champs
I hate Jeter but Rolen can’t hold jeters jock straps in terms of baseball stats and accolades. Jeter prolly had more late night stands on the road than rolen had hits
JoeBrady
Astros2017&22Champs14 mins ago
I hate Jeter but Rolen can’t hold jeters jock straps in terms of baseball stats and accolades.
=========================
Jeter career OPS+ = 115
Rolen career OPS+ = 122
Rolen is considered one of the all-time great fielders. Jeter is the all-time negative DRS.
Halo11Fan
My issue with Rolen, and it’s my only issue with him, is he played very few full seasons.
Astros2017&22Champs
Comparing ops+ to a leadoff hitter and a power hitter is really milking your argument in your favor buddy.
CardsFan57
Rolen was very similar to Arenado before an injury changed his hitting ability.
tstats
Derek Jeter wRC+ 119
Scott Rolen wRC+ 122
Rolen created more runs , equalized to park, offensively on a per PA basis than Jeter. And saved more runs than Jeter but thats a low bar to clear.
Ancient Pistol
Jeter has 3600 hits and is 7th all time. End of discussion.
tstats
I’m not gonna disagree that Derek was a great *hitter* I will argue that Rolen was a better run producer. On a per game basis, Rolen created 6.5 runs a game to Dereks 6.2. Of course, this falls on a per game basis and wRC+ is a by PA basis (in essence) Derek played longer and dealt with less injuries than Rolen but looking at a by game or PA basis (the pure bases of baseball) Rolen was the better offensive player if you agree that the goal of a hitter is to create runs. They also have the same amount of batting wins with Jeter needing 3 more full years than Rolen to hit the same 24.2 wins contributed.
BaseballisLife
He doesn’t have to because voters don’t compare 1B or SS or RF TO 3B. They compare 3B to 3B. When you do that you realize Rolen is a top 10 at that position all time. He belongs.
Astros2017&22Champs
Relying on a number to tell u how good a player is? War is a voodoo stat. Adam everett 76 war. Babe ruth 75 war. Wow. Babe ruth sucked.
JoeBrady
Adam everett 76 war
========================
Here’s my problem with America. As soon as you wrote that, you should’ve thought “that doesn’t sound right. Let me double-check”
Buuba ho tep
I’ve been saying it for years .metrics is killing sports
Astros2017&22Champs
Its called being facetious. If you interpreted that as me being serious you are a moron
Ted
So all the evidence you have against WAR and OPS+ consists of made up examples? Let’s hear some real ones, then. Show us the egregious examples where WAR breaks down and explain why your opinion is more correct.
BaseballisLife
Top 10 3B of all time. Rolen belongs.
Pageup
If Rolen gets in and Baines gets in it’s time to enshrine Dwight Evans.
Fooque2
And Dave the Cobra Parker
Mystery13
Wow, good for him
gbs42
Congratulations, Scott Rolen!!!
Braveslifer
No brainer
steven st croix
If he was a no brainer, he would have been elected 1st ballot. He was a HOF defensive player who was better than average offensively.
JoeBrady
He was much better than average offensively.
Kewldood69
So 2,000 hits and 300 home runs is enough now? If that’s the case, Nelson Cruz is a lock.
getrealgone2
Nah, he has that PED bust
LFGMets (Metsin7)
I know right, the dude is hall of very good. Advanced metrics are overrating some players
HarrytheK0880
You are choosing to ignore Rolen’s stellar defense at 3rd and that’s a chop.
phar lap
Including all those Gold Gloves Nellie won? The Cardinals will always be grateful to him and Ron Washington for 2011.
phar lap
Don’t forget all those Gold Gloves Nellie won! Cardinals will always be grateful to him and Ron Washington for 2011.
kellin
Tenth best WAR for a 3rd baseman. Brooks Robinson, Wade Boggs, Paul Molitor and Edgar Martinez all have fewer HRs than Rolen and they’re all in the hall. Even Mike Schmidt, graded as the best 3rd baseman has less than 2500 hits.
LFGMets (Metsin7)
@Kellin WAR is overrated. You mean to tell me that Scott Rolen is really that much better than say Steve Garvey? 30 WAR difference except one has an MVP and 6 more all star appearances, and its not Scott Rolen who has the better acheivements for that era of baseball
kellin
*shrug* I also made comparisons to hits and HRs of other 3rd basemen in the hall.
Tassix
Garvey’s MVP is hilarious. A 1B and he wasn’t even the best hitter on his team that year., Jimmy Wynn was better.
Also the following NL players who hit better batters that year:
Johnny Bench
Mike Schmidt
Joe Morgan
Reggie Smith
Rolen and Garvey are approximately ~20th batters over their prime and Rolen is one of the best defensive 3B of all time. So yeah that’s worth a lot over a 1B.
Halo11Fan
I feel the same way about Baylor. Downing and Grich were arguably better hitters that year and Baylor couldn’t play defense.
JoeBrady
Rolen was a better hitter and better fielder.
tstats
Never use All Star appearances as a HOF case point, its a fan vote
CardsFan57
Defense, Defense, Defense. It really does matter to the outcomes of baseball games.
BaseballisLife
Lfg are you really trying to say that popularity contests like fan voted All Star appearances are more important than the stats? And you want us to take anything you say seriously?
mrbrklyn
And who do you think the HoF is for??? Fans…
mrbrklyn
Scott Rolens was much better than Steve Garvey. It is not even close.
Halo11Fan
Yes. Rolen was much much better than Steve Garvey.
tstats
Fans should vote for the HoF. The system is screwed up. If the hall of fame is measuring fame not performance, it should at least include a fan vote on the subject because as was stated, the HoF is for fans but is voted by writers who couldn’t give two craps about what the fans want.
Todd Kemmerer
All those guys had the magic number of 300k or 500 homers. Which he was not even close
In nurse follars
He played parts of 16 years. Players with some skill and good health will eventually pad their stats. That’s the problem with people who look at stats in a vacuum. They over value raw numbers.
WestCoast89
Nelson Cruz was suspended for PEDs. Also, Rolen has multiple gold gloves. In the “should Rolen be in the HOF”, and the “should Nelson Cruz be in the HOF” debates, I have no dog in those fights. But it’s way more than the stats you threw out
krumbledkookie
Nah, Rolen isn’t in on just his offensive output. His defense is what got him in. Without that stellar play in the field, he’s not close.
BaseballisLife
Sure. If Cruz was so elite on defense that there were only a half dozen as good as him with the glove in the last 100 years he should be in. Rolen was that good on defense.
PunkRockies
Helton was robbed
Yankee Clipper
Well, I don’t think so because this is a strong indicator that he’s getting in for sure. But, I agree, with the way the HOF determining eligible players, he should be in. His home/road splits were incredibly consistent and for a Rockies player that’s pretty incredible, given how the away stadiums affect the baseballs differently.
Sonny 3
Should have already been chosen
implant
It’s become the Hall of the very good.
hiflew
Why do people think fame and very good are on the same scale? Very good would be the step down from excellent not fame. Instead of Hall of Very Good it should be Hall of Notable or Hall of Recognizable.
mrkinsm
Over 22,000 players have debuted in the bigs, less than 300 are in the majors. It’s still the Hall of Great.
In nurse follars
Rolen was a good player. Even a fine player. But not a hall of fame player.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
More of a hall of shame player to me
hiflew
Except he is a Hall of Fame player now. Personally I think the HOF is a joke for not including the all time hits leader, the all time home run leader, and arguably the best pitcher of the second half of the 20th century. Any museum that believes Jim Rice and Jack Morris were superior to Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens at baseball is not worth much in my book.
DTD/ATL1313
Those players that are in didn’t cheat the game. That’s why the others are not in and don’t deserve to be.
hiflew
Gaylord Perry says hello. So does David Ortiz. And I am sure they are not the only ones.
DTD/ATL1313
I’m talking about the players you mentioned, pretty obvious
hiflew
OK fine then Captain Obvious. Any museum that believes Gaylord Perry and David Ortiz were better players than Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds is not worth much in my book.
BaseballisLife
David Ortiz got better after testing began. That is the opposite of what happens with PED users. Common sense should have told you that but you obviously would rather hate than think.
Tassix
They’re all in the museum. The hall is literally a hall in the building with some plaques.
And it’s not because they didn’t put up numbers worthy of the hall it’s that they are deemed to have committed major sins against the game of baseball. They were certainly better than the players you mentioned. They’re with Shoeless Joe Jackson in the museum, but he’s not in the hall either.
BaseballisLife
Anyone that thinks those guys belong in is not worth anything in my book.
hiflew
Thanks for letting me know. I will continue to walk past your book while it collects dust n the discount bin.
BaseballisLife
By what measure?
Measuring defense he is top 5 ever at the position.
Measuring offense he was top 3 in his era at the position.
Overall he is a top 10 3B. He belongs in the HOF.
jhend12
2004 was a special year for the cards as they were a juggernaut that season thanks to him, Pujols and Edmonds in the middle of that lineup. Rolen was an absolute blast to watch defensively. He made it look easy every time. Congrats to him!
Motown is My Town
Congrats to Scott Rolen. However still baffles me beyond belief that Rolen makes the HOF but Lou Whitaker is still excluded! How the hell does that happen??????
stymeedone
Lou was quiet and not a media darling.
Colavito
7th Day Adventist. If Lou had played in NYC or L.A. he would have been lst ballot HOF.
raisinsss
stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi?player…
Seems like Scott was a better defender and a slightly more valuable hitter (more power) over fewer seasons. Lou should have received more votes than he did though.
mlbtrsks
Whittaker was NOT a 7th Day Adv but a Jehova’s Witness. He stayed in the clubhouse duing the Anthem.
hiflew
Simple answer. Lou Whitaker appeared on the ballot before sabermetrics voters started voting for the HOF. Honestly, if Whitaker could have gotten enough votes to stay on the ballot his first time, he could have easily built up a following much like Trammell and Rolen. Scott Rolen only got 10% of the vote his first year., not much more than Whitaker’s 3%.
smuzqwpdmx
Whitaker and Trammell should’ve been the first combo induction where each get half the plaque.
hiflew
If you say that, you have to go back to Tinker and Evers. And throw Chance in there as well.
Kruk's Beer League
Congratulations Scott! From a Phillies fan at that! Well deserved.
CarverAndrews
As a Phils fan, very happy for Scott. For me, he was a tweener as I could see arguments for and against. Without the injuries, he would have been a slam dunk however. Wagner should be there, and there is a real case for Abreu…more of one than I would have thought.
Helton…probably yes. Sheffield yes. Kent…yes. Although the eye test on the fielding he made a very good DH.
getrealgone2
Pretty weak selection.
In Seager/Hader We Trust > the 70 MM DH Ohtani
No!!!! This further makes a mockery of the Hall of Fame. This guy gets in over half a dozen others more qualified!?!
rb305
Here comes the “good not great” comments and endless talk about steroids.
My take on Rolan, I’m happy for him and enjoyed watching him play. If I’m not mistaken, only they 19th third basemen elected to the HOF, so that is quite a list to make.
I continue to be disappointed that many of the stars and players I enjoyed when I was younger are tainted or will never get the recognition as Rolan, or guys like Ortiz, are getting. No matter your opinion or mine, this is a sad state of affairs for the HOF and baseball. How many more years until we are beyond this?
SODOMOJO
I’m glad that he’s in. He’s a top 10 3B of all time. Did everything; hit for power, average, stole a bunch of bags. One of the great all around players in my lifetime! I still have the sports illustrated for kids Got Milk pop out card of his in a hard plastic cover lol. I wish we could post pictures sometimes!
DTD/ATL1313
That’s a huge stretch to say he’s a top 10 3rd baseman
SODOMOJO
I thought that as I was typing.
Then, I thought to myself; “name 10 better?” I can’t. At least modern era (not that I know any players pre modern era, lol)
SODOMOJO
baseballegg.com/third-base-war-leaders/amp/
He is 9th best all time by the numbers according to baseball egg, 8th best war of any 3b.
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_3B.shtml
Baseball ref has him 10th all time.
CuddyFox
Got to watch out, one player that is even better defense and offense is a few spots below Rolen. Only thing is that Arenado is still active and he might pass most of who is on the list.
SODOMOJO
Shoot, let’s not mince words here. Nolan>Rolen. Maybe not on an all time list YET; but soon to be.
Sadler
Thank you for committing one of the greatest errors in San Francisco Giants history!
angt222
Congrats to Rolen, well deserved!
Datashark
Jeff Kent > Scott Rolen
stymeedone
Not as a person.
Datashark
The article is about HOF on field not chatting and being friends with
Yankee Clipper
I think out of the entire list, Kent and Wagner surprised me the most. Wagner because he was so dominant as a reliever during his prime and their are so few closers in, and I thought Kent would’ve made it much closer to Rolen’s vote totals.
gbs42
Kent was better than Rolen? That’s very funny.
Similar hitters, but Rolen was much better defensively and on the bases.
GarryHarris
I feel Todd Helton and Billy Wagner are better candidates. Scott Rolen was not a HOF player. He was the 2nd best defensive 3B of his era but not among the great defensive 3B all time.
BaseballisLife
How many games did Helton and Wagner play at 3B? None? So why are you comparing them to Rolen.
He is among the top 5 defensive 3B to play the game. He was the 3rd best offensive 3B of his era. He is a top ten 3B of all time. He belongs.
cardsfanboy
What hat does he dawn?
Monkey’s Uncle
Solid question. Offhand I’d say Cardinals because he won his WS ring there, but Phillies wouldn’t surprise me.
KermitJagger
He wanted to get out of Philly in a hurry so I doubt it.
hiflew
The Hall chooses the team, not the player since Wade Boggs picked Tampa.
GarryHarris
Scott Rolen demanded to be traded from the Phillies because “Management wasn’t trying hard enough…” then demanded to be traded from the Cardinals while demonstrating obnoxious disrespect toward Tony LaRussa makes Rolen not very endearing to either fan base.
In fact, both teams should insist he wear a Jays or Reds cap.
CardsFan57
LaRussa was showing the same disrespect for Rolen. Who called out who in the press first is something you need to look at. That was a purely personal battle that had little to do witht the team.
Bart Harley Jarvis
@KermitJagger,
He wanted out of St. Louis as well, and I really don’t care which hat he wears. He had great success in St. Louis, but only played there for what amounts to 4+ seasons due to injuries.
GarryHarris
You can’t justify Rolen’s behavior with “Yeah but LaRussa started it…”.
CardsFan57
I’ll change my entire outlook now that you told me I can’t.
jmirro
I don’t want him in as a Philly, he doesn’t deserve that. Stick him with Toronto
Ol’ Uncle Charlie
A major factor will probably be that the Cards have lucrative service contracts and very extensive fan-centric events that Rolen will now be a part of as a HOFer. So there’s a lot of incentive for him to go in as a Card because of that as well as it being the best move.
BaseballisLife
The HOF decides that
DonOsbourne
Native of Jasper, IN. Star of Saturday Night Live. Congrats Scott!
krumbledkookie
I won’t say Rolen doesn’t deserve it, because his case is solid, but the fact that he got in and Billy Wagner is still waiting is preposterous.
OhioDodger
Wagner sucked in the post season.
Monkey’s Uncle
During Rolex’s career I never thought of him as a Hall of Famer. I’m actually more impressed now looking at his numbers than I was watching him play. He’s borderline to me but I’ve got no issues with him making it. Congrats to a solid player and leader.
CravenMoorehead
Hell yeah bruthur, well deserved.
louwhitakerisahofer
I’m okay with Rolen getting in, even though I don’t believe he is worthy. But for him to get in before guys like Andrew Jones and Helton seems far fetched.
kellin
For those of you wondering about Rolen, here’s the stats I found for 14 other 3rd basemen in the hall of fame. And as everyone has pointed out he was a stellar defensive player –
baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofst3b.shtml
theathlete
Relief pitching is a position in baseball, and it has been for a long time but for some reason it doesn’t get respected by the voters. And the major issue with that is they put Bruce Sutter in the Hall of Fame. Billy Wagner is better and Bruce Sutter. Tom Henke is better than Bruce Sutter. And both Henke and Wagner were great for their entire careers, they went out with really good numbers in their final seasons. At least Wagner may eventually get in, but there’s little justification for keeping him out. Making him wait because he is a relief pitcher, even though he was one of the best ever do it in the history of the game, is just stupid.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Billy Wagner only pitched 900 innings and has career WAR of 27. Not a hall of famer. It would be like putting Sandy Alcantara in the HOF if he retired at the end of 2023.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Also, regarding Wagner, in 14 post-season games he had an era of 10.03 and a WHIP of 1.971. And that’s not because of one game, he gave up earned runs in 7 of those 14 post-season appearances.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Closers play even less of the game than DH’s and play fewer games than DH’s. Anyone who thinks that a closer (other than Mariano Rivera) belongs in the HOF should be open to DH’s as well. And Wagner had a short career as relief pitchers go and a horrible post-season record.
Redstitch108* 2
Based upon this selection, I have no doubt in my mind that Dale Murphy should be in the hall. Very similar numbers. Murphy was a 7 time all star, has more hits and home runs than Rolen. Also good defensively with a cannon arm. How does he get left out? The man had 4 silver sluggers, 5 gold gloves and 2 MVPs.
Ted
You’re not wrong.
hiflew
Juan Gonzalez also had 2 MVPs and 6 silver sluggers and he barely got 5% of the vote 1 time. I am not saying that Juan Gone should be in the Hall. I am just saying that Dale Murphy was a very popular guy due to the Superstation in the 80s. But he had a short peak and a quick decline.
James Midway
Good on him glad he made it in. I like the committee vote more than the clueless sanctimonious writers.
Hired Gun 23
Congratulations, Scott Rolen. Well deserved!
whosehighpitch
Best #17 ever in Philadelphia
whosehighpitch
Best #17 ever in Philadelphia not like the clown that wears it now
mlb1225
He 100% deserves it. It’s only two stats, but he has a higher OPS+ than Brooks Robinson and over 100 defensive runs saved despite playing his first seven seasons before the stat was invented. Plus he had 2000 hits and over 300 home runs. A lot of similarities between him and Santo.
iBleeedBlue
And Jeff Kent is still out. I think the HOF has easily accepted a *lower* caliber career now with the Rolen selection.
catojr
Rolen is basically in for his defense thin when are they going to put the best defensive first basemen Keith Hernandez in?
catojr
Rolen is basically in for his defense thin when are they going to put the best defensive first basemen Keith Hernandez in HOF?
Halo11Fan
There are much much much better second baseman than Kent who are not in the Hall.
iBleeedBlue
Just a fans perspective. Which drives either everything or nothing in baseball, or so it seems.
miltpappas
Rolen is not a HOFer. Sorry, Gen-Z. But then neither are Harold Baines, Alan Trammell, Minnie Minoso, Jim Rice, Hoyt Wilhelm and countless others. The HOF has gone from Walter Johnson-Henry Aaron-Willie Mays and Sandy Koufax to “good-to-very good” players.
tstats
None of these guys were voted in by GenZ? It is more GenX and millennial thinking that GenZ has helped perpetuate through our superior use of the internet.
hiflew
Oh please. GenX didn’t start it. The 1940s and 1950s started it once they started letting in just about every teammate of a still living HOFer at the time.
tstats
Hiflew thank you for the actual response. That is fair, the downfall (or the enlarging) of the hall started with Frisch and the gashouse gang.
Brad Scott
@tstats: You misspelled “inferior” and omitted “clueless”, “mindless”, and “ignorant”. Otherwise, a fine comment. (We’re not laughing at you, we’re … actually, yes we are.)
BaseballisLife
Is top ten of all time at your position only good to very good?
iBleeedBlue
It used to be. The HOF grew out of necessity and comparing the era’s these different guys played in, there’s really no winnable argument in logic or emotion. Just really hard and passionate opinions.
People think of the HOF as being top 3, maybe top 5. Rolen in the conversation for top 3 or top 5 at his position in his era is valid. His name against the history books and not even top 10 is happening.
I see it like this. How many fans know the player’s name and remember that person being good every time they played your team. That’s almost automatically going to be a top tier HOF level athlete every time.
riffraff
Make the HOF a fixed number of players – set a minimum # of players for each position and 20 at large entries. You want Scott Rolen in? Fine – now vote on who is out. Won’t be a perfect system but how awesome would the comments section be on this site if that happened.
PhiladelphiaCollins
Mark Beurhle gets to stick around! Yay
RoadRunner38!
Edmonds should of got in when he was on the ballot or at least stay on the ballot and build up to being voted in!
soxshortstop
meh….better candidates didn’t make it.
baseballpun
I think he’s a deserving HOF and fits in comfortably with the 3rd basemen already in the Hall. He’s not Mike Schmidt but you shouldn’t have to be in order to make it.
I think the so-called “small hall” types perpetually undervalue length of career/consistency and defense. Being “very good” for 15 years, to me, is at least equivalent to being a top-10, or even top-5, player in the game for a 5-6 year window, but I get the sense that most people prefer short-term dominance over long-term excellence.
Of course, the best of the best are long-term dominant, and there’s no question they belong in the HOF.
User 3595123227
Always thought he was an outstanding baseball player. Never thought Hall Of Fame worthy.
Diggydugler
There are worse players than Rolen in and he was a cool cat, so it’s aight.
Colavito
Another slap in the face to Lou Whitaker:
Whitaker spent his entire career with the Detroit Tigers. From 1977 to 1995, he appeared in 2,390 games for the Tigers, third most in franchise history behind Ty Cobb and Al Kaline. He helped the Tigers win the 1984 World Series, was selected as an American League All-Star five consecutive years (1983–1987) and won four Silver Slugger Awards (1983–1985, 1987) and three Gold Glove Awards (1983–1985). The Tigers retired his No. 1 jersey in August 2022.
Batting average .276
Home runs 244
Hits 2,369
Runs batted in 1,084
OhioDodger
Yes. Hopefully the veterans committee will correct that and enshrine Whitaker in 2025. Along with Jeff Kent.
Halo11Fan
Kent? Since 1970 Grich is second in fWAR at second. Whitaker 3rd. Kent is 11th. Well behind Willie Randolph who is no hall of famer
catojr
If that’s all that’s required thin Keith Hernandez is a no-brainer.
Halo11Fan
Grich was every bit as good as Whitaker. Since 1970 Grich is 22nd in WAR, Whitaker 27.
They both belong, Grich is 74. Put him in while he is alive.
GarryHarris
Individually, I don’t put Lou Whitaker or Alan Trammell in the HOF (Jack Morris either because Mickey Lolich was better and ineligible). But, the standards for my HOF vote is significantly stricter than it has become.
However, if Tinker to Evers to Chance are in the HOF for a poem that celebrates the body of work by these teammates, the Whitaker-Trammell keystone belongs in the HOF too.
stevenam
Good player. Not great. Not worthy of the HOF
Colavito
You have no clue what about Sweet Lou. He batted leadoff his entire career or his RBI totals would have dwarfed Rolen’s and he only weighed 170 lbs. Longest running DP duo with Trammell…almost identical numbers to Tram’s who is HOF.
OhioDodger
Congrats to Rolen. Jeff Kent should be in HOF.. I guess it pays to be nice to the writers/reporters.
Colavito
Yep, that’s why it took so long to get Jack Morris in the HOF…he hated writers and it was mutual.
tstats
Nah he just wasnt a greatttt pitcher
Colavito
Most wins in the 1980’s….WS champion with 3 different teams…..he should have been 1st ballot HOF.
venezolano1969
My opinion is not popular in the hollier than thou America, but Omar Vizquel should be in. Best SS of his era, 2800 hits, 11 gold gloves. His only fault on the field, no power. Unforunatetly his off the field faults (recent, none while he was playing) did him
Fg-3
So Nettels …Keith Hernandez. Come on. Scott Rolen?? Scott Rolen??? I’m sorry .. Rolen was good… he was never a MVP he’s not Brooks Robinson.. I’m not trying to put him down. But who’s next Ryan Howard? Adam Dunn? The writers in this case should be ashamed. Jeff Kent is the only one who deserved to be here. Maybe Wagner
JoeBrady
So Nettels …Keith Hernandez. Come on. Scott Rolen??
==========================
Rolen was better than Nettles, but as a RS fan, I fully support Nettles for the HOF. One of the best fielders ever, and 390 HRs.
CuddyFox
Rolen could have won one if Barry Bonds did not take steroids.. That is the thing that some people do not understand. Rolen had a fantastic 2004, but he lost out because one person had to take steroids and won the MVP that year.
CardsFan57
And two of his teammates also had MVP caliber years in 2004.
Brad Scott
@CuddyFox: Yes, Rolen had a terrific season, but Bonds isn’t the only reason he wasn’t voted MVP. Beltré, Pujols, and Edmonds also stood out. Beltré (second) and Pujols (third) finished ahead of fourth-place Rolen, with Edmonds fifth. Any top-five result in MVP voting is pretty impressive.
jakethesnizake
I’m good with Rolen getting the call. Don’t really care re Wagner or Helton. Glad most the writers got it right with the likes of AFraud, Sheffield, Ramirez. Keep those clowns out as long as possible.
User 589131137
Loser talk.
phil972
The hall of fame has become a joke. What did he do in his 7 years of retirement to gain entry. Nice player but not a HOF
phil972
What a joke. Nice player but not a HOF
KingTiger
Well deserved. The writers got this one right. Congratulations, Mr. Rolen!
Mystery Team
The hall of good.
❤️ MuteButton
Thats great, congrats!
Berischa
IMO if Ozzie Smith is in the HOF? Omar Vizquel also deserves to be in, at least he should be getting a higher percentage of votes ATM or it is that defense has not value anymore in baseball? Plus as a hitter, wasn’t a dissapointment at all, again, it is only my humble opinion..
CardsFan57
Ozzie Smith dWAR 44.2 (the highest of any player). Omar Vizquel 29.5 dWAR. Total zone runs saved Ozzie 239, Omar 130. It’s not nearly as close as you think. Mark Belanger may have been better defensively. Omar wasn’t close.
hiflew
Omar would already be in if he didn’t get into trouble. 3 years ago he was ahead of Helton and peaked at over 50% of the vote. But people don’t like voting for abusers.
Jacksson13
Just what are the additional offensive and defensive stats that Mr. Rolen has amassed since he first became eligible for consideration for admission to the MLB Hall of Fame??
Now, 5 YEARS LATER, he is FINALLY deemed worthy of admission??
My point is irrespective of Mr Rolen’s qualifications for the HOF.
I have no opinion either way.
Once a player’s playing career is over and the prescribed waiting period has passed:
EITHER YOU HAVE THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS FOR ADMISSION OR YOU DON”T.
Admission should not be gained due to the attrition of other eligible candidates who have dropped off the eligibility list either due to having gained admission or having been dropped from consideration due to not receiving enough votes to warrant further consideration in future years. This is a flawed process in need of review and revision.
Willie Mays, in 1979, was not voted “in” by 23 HOF voters.
Jackie Robinson received only 77.5% of votes necessary for admission.
These instances among others are an atrocity to the game !! .
Jacksson13
Can’t believe that nobody thought enough to even make a reply….
baseballteam
Then Dwight Evans is HoF.
leftcoaster
All these Andruw Jones supporters crack me up. Dude hit .158 in 238 AB’s with 3 homers and waddled around overweight in CF for the Dodgers. HE WAS ONLY 31! For that alone he shouldn’t be voted in, let alone that he’d have the absolute lowest BA in the entire hall if elected.
raisinsss
This sounds personal.
Was 2008 the year that Krispy Kreme got big on the west coast? Just saying…
tstats
Krispy Kreme could do anyone in
raisinsss
No shame in that.
raisinsss
Robert Allen Dickey, you saucy SOB. Some of the funnest games to watch were his starts.
RIP, knuckleball. We hardly knew thee.
iron
2 points:
1. Rolen’s last 8 years were below average and only added to padding career stats and longevity. As others stated Kent, Whitaker, etc. should be in over Rolen.
2. HOF Voters should lose their eligibility to vote if they don’t have a vote for any player that gets 80%+ votes on that ballot. Same for those who provide a token vote for a player such as Huston Street. Same as doing a write-in vote for Sidd Finch. JMO…
Colavito
I believe HOF should be for players who you’d buy a ticket to see play. A Nolan Ryan, Reggie Jackson, Kaline or Mantle. Not the hotdogs or flashy for a couple seasons, but the guys who were very good day after day and on occasion other-worldly. DiMaggio was once asked why he played so hard in lopsided or meaningless games and he said “because out there in the seats is a kid who came to see me play and I don’t want to let him down.” That’s HOF in a nutshell.
bag o ballz
looking back, it is kind of crazy that scott rolen was better than bonds.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
But it’s not crazy that Bonds, Clemens and Rose all have the same outcome.
NoNeckWilliams
Great player. Well deserved.
… clutch too
Jacksson13
WOW !! Never visited the Baseball HOF.
Less incentive to see it now:
No Sidd Finch
No Mark Fidrych
No George Plimpton
No Rick Vaughn
No Pedro Cerrano
No Billy Chapel
No Roy Hobbs
No Jack Elliot
No Stan Ross
No Steve Nebraska
No Charlie Brown
No reason to visit…
Old York
Unfortunate… Manny Ramírez, Todd Helton & Álex Rodríguez should be in the Hall of Fame.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Manny Ramirez was one of the most fun MLB players to watch ever.
But he does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.
Old York
@MannyBeingMVP
Why do you think that? Going off the Baseball Reference page for Manny, he checks all the Hall of Fame Statistics boxes, except for the Black Ink. Is it just because of the character? If that is the case, should we not review the character of the others that already have plaques?
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Manny deserves it based on his stats and passion for the game. But he was suspended multiple times for steroid use
si.com/mlb/2014/03/13/manny-ramirez-interview-ped-…
Old York
Then I hope when many of the recent pitchers like Cole, are on the ballot, they are also not elected, due to performance enhancing substances. It’s clear they aren’t as good without it.
deGromTexasRanger
Absolute legend
positively_broad_st
I got to see Rolen play in person a couple of times. His defense was even more amazing when you got to see it up close. His defensive confidence was otherworldly. He has a presence that made it clear that the left side of the infield was closed for business. He had quite the range too, from foul territory over to the shortstop position, very little got by Scott Rolen. Congratulations!
catojr
Sounds like Keith Hernandez on the right side of infield!!
positively_broad_st
Absolutely like Hernandez, a real difference maker with the glove, plus an intelligent defender. Throw in over 300 homers, over 500 doubles, and a career .855 OPS for Rolen makes him a bonafide HOFer. I don’t know why some of these people are arguing his greatness. I guess because he never won MVP like Hernandez and Mattingly did?
JoeBrady
I think the issue is one where many people, and many writers, vote for the pure offensive and pure defensive stars. They understand guys like Ozzie & Lofton, and they understand guy Vlad and Edgar Martinez. But guys like Rolen and Grich and Nettles don’t reverberate the same way.
catojr
Sounds like Keith Hernandez on the right side of the infield!!!
flynntastic
Yea exactly. #17 should be in the hall if rolen is.
positively_broad_st
Hardly the case. Rolen compares well to Ron Santo. Hernandez doesn’t really compare well to any HOFer at his position. Hernandez compares to Mark Grace, Wally Joyner, Chris Chambliss and Cecil Cooper. Rolen and Hernandez both played 17 seasons. Rolen has a better OPS, a hundred more doubles, and twice as many home runs. Don’t get me wrong, Hernandez was a field general during his time and I put Hernandez over the popular Garvey on the list of great first baseman, but I don’t think Hernandez did quite enough to get into the HOF.
imgman09
Very Good Player but ………
acoss13
Heck yes! I thoroughly enjoyed Scott Rolen robbing hits from the Cubs and coming in big clutch moments for the Cardinals his entire tenure. The man was just awesome to watch! Cubs fan here, but my goodness how can you not appreciate a great player like Rolen?
I’m disappointed Helton, Wagner and Jones didn’t get in this year. All three had exceptional years of success, these aren’t some two or three great seasons, these are several seasons of elite play here.
DarkSide830
Boi better go in with a Phillies cap or at least a blank one.
CardsFan57
His best years and championship were in St Louis.
CardsFan57
Congratulations Rolen. He was a great all round third baseman. Too bad running into that giant Chinese fellow trashed his shoulder and sapped his power. He had good years but he was never quite the same after that injury.
mcase7187
How the hell does he get voted in but they never voted in Fred McGriff who had to wait for the era committee
JoeBrady
I think the writers got it about right. IMHO, the vote should’ve gone:
Rolen
Jones
Helton
Wagner
So close enough. Beltran should be in as well, but he needs to be punished at least a little for cheating.
My one complaint is the inconsistency of the writers. Last year, Kent received 129 votes. This year, 181 votes. 42 writers changed their minds. So were 42 right last and wrong this year? Or were 42 wrong last year?
CardsFan57
The only reason the Cardinals won a championship with Eckstein at short is because having Rolen at third allowed Eckstein to cheat noticeably towards second all year.
CuddyFox
We are seeing history repeating itself with Arenado and Edman. Edman can cheat a bit to 2nd base because Arenado will gobble up anything close to him. Just waiting for the championship with them on the left side of the infield.
bobsugar84
Not to single out Mr. Arroyo, but Bronson Arroyo got a vote. So did Mike Napoli. Curious.
tstats
Arroyo is the last player to wear 69
JoeBrady
The writers have to treat this as a sacred obligation, or be forced out.
isolatedpower
Jacque Jones got a vote. Jacque. Jones.
FRL
Great career, but i never thought of him as a HOF level guy, similar to Andruw Jones actually in status. Neither really sniffed an MVP and their top seasons were peak steroid era.
Rolen was a middle of the order guy on those great Cardinals teams, but he wasn’t a bigger threat than Edmonds. Although I’ll never forget his cheapo homer down the line off Clemens to bust open Game 7 of NLCS.
Great player, but hall of very good for me.
JoeBrady
Edmonds is every bit as good and deserves a real shot.
Colavito
Best CFer I ever saw…nobody else even close….and he could hit a little too.
DannyQ3913
How did Jimmy Rollins only get 12.9%? That’s insane.
gdjohnson
How did Jimmy Rollins get 12.9%?. That’s insane.
Plugnplay
Good for Rolen, maybe there finally loosening up there grip on the door to the hall, as they should.
Fg-3
Are we serious?! Let’s put buddy bell in too. We are talking about the best ever are we??
Ancient Pistol
What is odd about Rolen is I have no memory of him playing. It’s as if he never existed in my mind. However, I do remember other HOF players, even the ones you saw less of.
Robert G.
Is this really the best photo you can use for Scott Rolen’s HOF article—a decapitated body shot?
old ranger
Another good enuff HOFer. Welcome to the Rabbit Maranville wing of the Hall.
outinleftfield
Congrats Scott. A well deserved honor. As a player you were top ten among 3B all time. Take your place among the greats of the game where you belong.
Next year, Helton.
84LeFlore
Sweet Lou Whitaker, 7th all-time in WAR for 2B but still shunned by the morons who vote.
Dock_Elvis
How they elect Trammell without Sweet Lou is beyond me
mydogcrowder
I’m glad he got in, I remember I always added Scott to my team back in the hayday of video games like triple play baseball.
flynntastic
Stats no different (maybe Keith’s are better) than Scott Rolen who was elected to Hall of Fame. Keith should be in the Hall. Also holds record for game winning ribeyes with 129.
flynntastic
Keith Hernandez.
rememberthecoop
The best defensive first basemen I’ve ever seen.
isolatedpower
MVP and World Series champion Keith Hernandez
Paul Miller
Nice game, pretty boy.
rememberthecoop
Very good player. Not a Hall of Famer.
LordD99
It appears you are wrong.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Should’ve been Helton and Andruw Jones, too.
Poster formerly known as . . .
I read Jayson Stark’s rationale for voting for Sheffield and it’s just more of the same hypocritical nonsense I’ve come to expect from members of the BBWAA.
Sheffield admitted to using a topical PED, “the cream,” at BALCO. He gave the same excuse that Bonds’ lawyer gave in court: he didn’t know it contained steroids.
If you don’t vote for the far better player, Barry Bonds, because of the steroids allegations, you sure can’t with any logical consistency vote in favor of Sheffield.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Scott Rolen’s four-year, $10-million contract, with its no-trade clause, expires after this season, and the way the rhetoric is flying in Philadelphia, there is growing doubt the 1997 National League rookie of the year will be a Phillie in 2002.
Remarks by team senior advisor Dallas Green on a Philadelphia radio station Monday drove another wedge between the Phillies and their third baseman, once considered their franchise player.
“Scotty is satisfied with being a so-so player,” Green said. “He’s not a great player. In his mind, he probably thinks he’s doing OK. But the fans in Philadelphia know otherwise. I think he can be greater, but his personality won’t let him.
I kind of feel the way Dallas Green did, but Rolen did have a pretty good career
I didn’t think he was going to the Hall of Fame,, but he is in and that is that
bigsombrero
Milquetoast white guy who averaged 11 homers per season for his final SIX MLB seasons gets in to the HOF. You get a 3rd baseman who hits like that these days and he’d have been out of a job a long time ago. Meanwhile, Andruw Jones and Gary Sheffield have a combined 300 more homers than Rolen and they get snubbed.
One of the worst HOF selections I’ve seen or heard of in my life, the only worse selections are all the relief pitchers they’re letting in these days. What a joke.
raisinsss
This post isn’t worth the bandwidth.
Let’s just go and make:
1. Average number of home runs per season in a candidate’s final six seasons must be greater than 11. And
2. The combined home run totals of two non HOF players must not be more than 300 more than the candidate’s home run total
HOF criteria, eh. Go pick other cherries.
bigsombrero
As the weeks have gone on, Rolen is already widely considered one of the worst inductees in history. Hope you are enjoying a front row seat to the demolition of the HOF.
BetterMuppet:JUDGEorKERMIT?
I think it’s obvious which cap he will be wearing into the hall…..#bluejays
Macho King OG
I don’t even want to hear it, Donnie Baseball gets in NEXT year on the Veterans ballot or your HOF is TOTAL BULL!!!!!
slider32
What a farce, the good ole boys club and gate keepers of the HOF refuse to acknowledge a whole generation of greatness. I watched A-Rod become the best SS and 3rd basemen of all time, I watched Bonds become the best power hitter in the game. I watched Clemens become one of the top 5 pitchers of all time. I watched Man Ram totally become the best right handed hitter of his time.. The was the PED generation, and what makes me more infuriated is watching Big Popi on TV with A-Rod, Popi is in, and A-Rod out. Popi can;t hold A-Rods jock as a pllayer. To make matters worse, Bud Selig is in the Hall, he was the over see’er of McGuire and Sosa, who saved baseball, and started the PED generation. Players in my day were cheating by taking amphetamines, heck the trainers were giving them out like candy. They helped htters cut down their reaction time, and kept them alert, two big factors in hitting a baseball. Look at the batting averages since they were banned. Time to put Pete Rose in also, but we all have dealings with the good ole boys club. To make it worse I have look at Piazza, Bagwell, and Popi , PED users who are already in the Hall, and see players like Rolen get in with no black ink on baseball reference.
raisinsss
I stopped reading at Piazza but shouldn’t have started in the first place.
imgman09
The Standards have lowered to very good instead of Great, who weren’t HOF players when they retired but became HOF’s,What! It’s become a popularity contest instead! Reboot the Committee and get Rid of the ones who hold grudges!
LordD99
Only 1.4% of MLB players are in the Hall, and it’s more difficult today to get in the HOF than in the past even though the competitive level is higher than ever. In the other major sports the percent of players inducted is in the 3.5-5% range.
There are exceptions, but overall, MLB’s Hall remains the most exclusive, most difficult to get elected, and the highest honor.
imgman09
50+ years watching EVERY team ,The best test is the eye test(With Stats & Longevity) and the Best aren’t in the HOF, Period! And some are in , that shouldn’t! Nothing against any players! The System needs to change!
quantomoffandom
Scott Rolen in the Hall of Fame and Lou Whitaker not. There is something rotten in Cooperstown.
Halo11Fan
fWAR rankings since 1970.
Rolen 19, Grich 22, Whitaker 27.
What’s a joke is all the talk about Whitaker when there is little mention of Grich.
isolatedpower
It’s amazing how the voters give Andruw Jones and Scott Rolen recognition for their defense but yet Keith Hernandez, Thurman Munson and Carlos Beltran can’t sniff the hall.
Halo11Fan
I’d vote for Hernandez. I would not vote for Munson. I don’t think he’s particularly close. And Beltran has been a key member of two cheating scandals.
isolatedpower
But it’s all relative. There’s 100 guys that are substantially better than Harold Baines and Scott Rolen. Lou Whitaker, Hernandez, Munson, Beltran fall in that category. Shoot, Mattingly and David Wright we’re better players than Harold Baines. David wright was also a captain.
Halo11Fan
Harold Baines is a joke. I don’t know how you compare him to Rolen?
Grich, Whitaker, Hernandez and Evans belong…in that order
isolatedpower
Baines is the default line of demarcation. We went from “Is this one of the greatest players of all time?” To “Is this player better than Harold Baines?”
Halo11Fan
The top 30 fWAR players since 1970 not in the hall of fame but are eligible for the hall of fame.
Bonds #1.
ARod#2
Palmerio #18
Grich #22
Whitaker #27
I have no idea why so few people talk about Grich. He’s the highest ranked player not associated with PEDs who is not in the Hall of Fame.
Non Roster Invitee
Giant fans will always remember his 10th inning 2 out error in Game 3 of the 2012 NLDS to let Buster Posey score and give the Giants the lead and win with SF down 2 games to none. Giants never looked back and won their second of three World Series.
Rolen is in our HOF for that booted grounder!
brooklyn62
Scott Rolen…MEH! Hell,at least HOF 3b George Kell won a batting title and led the AL in doubles twice, and he is the definition of a wink,wink “HOFer”.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Some head-shaking stuff here — as usual when the Hall of Fame is the subject.
Rolen’s career OPS was the same as Al Kaline’s, was two points lower than Honus Wagner’s and George Brett’s, and was higher than Tony Gwynn’s, Reggie Jackson’s, Carl Yastrzemski’s and Eddie Murray’s. Among others.
Rolen had one less HR than George Brett in 2,951 fewer at-bats.
I realize I might irk some by bringing up WAR, but Rolen’s bWAR was higher than HOFers Tim Raines, Tony Gwynn, Eddie Murray, Ivan Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Edgar Martinez, Pee Wee Reese, Willie McCovey and many more. He’s 10th in career fWAR among third basemen.
Some of you apparently follow a game in which only offense counts. By that token, Brooks Robinson shouldn’t be in the Hall because this was his career slash line:
.267/.322/.401/.723
Perhaps you’d prefer a Hall full of Adam Dunns.
Defensive metrics need to be taken with many grains of salt, but, for what it’s worth, only 15 players — all positions — out of a pool of 9,572 are credited with more Defensive Runs Saved than Scott Rolen; only five have a higher UZR; only six have more Range Runs; and only 22 have a higher Def:
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&…
Baseball Reference credits only 24 players with more Total Zone Runs and only five third basemen with more Total Zone Runs since 1953.
B-Cap
The HOF magic is gone. Did I get too old? Or did the voting get too weak? HOF should be for the elite, not just high level players.
Fooque2
If you are a gynecologist and a trans woman comes into your office, are you now a proctologist?