The Red Sox and Marlins swapped relievers Monday afternoon, with righty Matt Barnes dealt to Miami for southpaw Richard Bleier. Boston is also reportedly sending a little more than $5.5MM in cash in the deal to make the transaction nearly cash-neutral.
Barnes, 32, was designated for assignment by the Red Sox last week following the completion of a one-year, $7MM agreement with outfielder Adam Duvall. He served as Boston’s primary closer in 2021, earning a team-leading 24 saves. The 2021 campaign, however, was something of a tale of two seasons for Barnes. He dominated to the tune of a 2.25 ERA and a 42% strikeout rate through Aug. 4. Barnes was impressive enough that the Sox inked him to a two-year, $18.75MM extension in early July.
Over the final two months of the 2022 season, however, Barnes not only struggled but melted down in catastrophic fashion. He pitched just 10 2/3 innings from Aug. 5 onward, yielding a dozen runs on 17 hits and nine walks with 16 strikeouts along the way. It was a calamitous end to a what had begun as one of the best seasons among all Major League relievers.
Barnes hoped to right the ship in 2022 but promptly lost the closer’s job early in the year when he stumbled to a 7.94 ERA through the end of May. The right-hander was always going to be much lower among the team’s high-leverage considerations in 2023, following the December additions of Kenley Jansen and Chris Martin — a pair of moves that was in large part necessitated by Barnes’ struggles.
Nonetheless, it’s worth pointing out that Barnes finished on a high note that likely intrigued Miami and other clubs. He was on the injured list from early June through early August due to shoulder inflammation, and upon returning, he looked much more like the Barnes of old. Beginning on Aug. 4 — the same point at which he began to struggle a year prior — Barnes pitched 22 2/3 innings of 1.59 ERA ball and picked up four saves. His 21.1% strikeout rate was half that of his dominant 2021 form, but it was still an encouraging note on which to end the season.
Barnes might eventually get a fresh chance to carve out some save opportunities in Miami, though Dylan Floro is the current projected frontrunner for that gig. Floro worked to a 3.02 ERA across 53 2/3 innings with the Marlins in 2022, and he has successfully converted 25 save attempts over the last two years. Barnes tallied only eight saves in 2022 and finished with a 4.31 ERA in 39 2/3 frames. He’ll add quite a bit more bat-missing potential to a team that ranked 13th among MLB clubs with a 24% strikeout rate from its relief corps in 2022, though the downside is obvious.
Bleier, meanwhile, can fill the Sox’s need for left-handed bullpen help, even as he enters his age-36 season. The veteran southpaw has registered a 3.09 ERA in 125 1/3 innings since the beginning of 2020, and he’s held left-handed batters to a .225/.260/.313 slash line since he first reached the major leagues with the Yankees in 2016. Boston traded lefty Josh Taylor to the Royals in exchange for Adalberto Mondesi, sent veteran Jake Diekman (signed through 2023) to the White Sox at last year’s trade deadline and lost Darwinzon Hernandez to the Orioles via waivers earlier this offseason — all of which had thinned out the team’s left-handed depth in the ’pen.
They’ll get some quality left-handed innings out of Bleier, although despite his strong track record there are some red flags of note. The soft-tossing southpaw has never missed many bats, but last year’s 14.4% strikeout rate was his lowest since 2019. Bleier has, in the past, offset his lack of whiffs with enormous ground-ball rates. However, while last year’s 52.5% mark was strong relative to the league-average, it was nowhere close to the 63.5% career mark he carried into the 2022 season. Bleier has also regularly avoided hard contact, but last year’s 89.6 mph exit velocity and 40.8% hard-hit rate were both his worst showings since the aforementioned 2016 debut.
Barnes will make $7.5MM in 2023 and is due at least a $2.25MM buyout on a 2024 club option valued at $8MM. Bleier is due $3.25MM for the upcoming season and has a $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout for next year. Barnes is guaranteed $9.75MM from here on out while Bleier will make at least $3.75MM. The Sox are covering the bulk of that $6MM gap with the $5.5MM+ cash consideration.
The Sox will save a minuscule amount of money and bring in a middle reliever with a solid overall track record and some particularly encouraging numbers against fellow lefties — even if Bleier comes with some potential areas of concern. That he can be controlled through 2024 via that affordable $3.75MM option is icing on the cake.
As for the Marlins, they’ll add more late-inning upside to their bullpen with this swap at almost no additional cost. Fans may bristle at shipping out the reliever with better surface-level numbers for what amounts to a Barnes reclamation project, but the Fish are willing to gamble on the younger, harder-throwing Barnes in hopes of unlocking a high-leverage reliever who can be controlled affordably through the 2024 season via that $8MM option. And, if Barnes is indeed able to round back into form, he’ll give Miami an interesting arm to put on the market this summer if they’re decisively out of postseason contention.
Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic first reported the Marlins were acquiring Barnes. Craig Mish of SportsGrid reported that Boston was acquiring Bleier in return. Jordan McPherson of the Herald was first to relay that Miami was receiving cash considerations, which Mish pegged in the $5MM range. Chris Coitllo of MassLive was first to report the cash involved was a little above $5.5MM.
STOP BALKING RICHARD
Honestly that’s a pretty good deal for a guy who was DFAd
Agreed. Barnes << Bleier. Marlins trading for magic beans.
Floro is clearly the better option as closer over both Barnes and Scott.
I don’t know Blier. Fill me in those old enough to remember Tom Burgmeier. Is that a decent comparison?
I loved Burgmeier. I would say Blier has similarities, but I wouldn’t put him that high. Burgmeir had a few years where he was extremely good.
Thanks Curtis. Lefties who didn’t throw hard and Burgie as well as the spaceman came to mind. I mentioned Burgmeier because Lee was more of a starter.
@Dewey, Unless he’s changed his pitching style, he’s an extreme roundball pitcher. Doesn’t throw hard but he’s a pretty solid lefty. Surprised the Red Sox did as well here.
And Burgy could play the outfield in a pinch.
Older lefty with below average stuff and microscopic K numbers (might literally be lowest in baseball). Gets lefties out pretty reliably but not righties at all. Not likely (imo) to make the Red Sox, but maybe with an injury or two.
Similarity scores peg Hideki Okajima as the most similar pitcher to Blieir in MLB history. Who didn’t love Okii?
Except before we thought there was a financial savings to put elsewhere. The value of this deal hinges on the health of the gut they from KC for Taylor (apologies for not recalling his name). If he stays healthy, looking at the two moves as one three way deal makes everything more palatable but he’s injured for most of the season, it won’t look as good.
My point about him being a good ground-ball pitcher remains, but the expected cost savings disappeared from the initial reports. I figured if nothing else they could direct that savings elsewhere. No longer true.
Bleier remains quite effective against lefties, but both last year and for his career, he’s turned righty batters into All-Star level performers. Bring him in to face Rizzo on the Yankees, as one example, that means he’ll have to face one of their big righty batters because of the three-batter minimum. Stanton will do uncomfortable things to Bleier not seen since the movie Deliverance.
The three batter minimum disappears if they bring him with 2 out and a left handed batter up. If he gets the guy out, he does not need to come back out the next inning. If Bleier is used in the 6th and 7th innings, it is less likely a pinch hitter will be used.
Agreed
I believe it’s an excellent deal. I figured Barnes would clear waivers and then some team would pick him up. They cleared $5MM off the ledger and they got a good useful lefty reliever. Always been a Bleier fan back to when he was on the Yankees. Extreme ground-ball pitcher. The Red Sox got better here, even if marginally.
The expected cost-savings appears to be gone now, Rob.
I’m shocked Boston was able to shed any of Barnes’ salary at all. Whether Bleier makes the team or not, this is a great deal for Boston.
Probably going to use the savings for another signing
They updated article to say that it is a salary neutral swap. Both teams are rearranging deck chairs.
Well with the latest update to the article, it appears Boston is now paying for the entire difference between Barnes & Bleier salary, including most of the $2.5M option buyout as well. So this deal isn’t quite the ‘boon for Bloom’ we thought it was but at least Boston got something decent in return for Barnes, assuming of course that Bloom doesn’t DFA Bleier before the season starts.
As more details come out about the cash considerations it’s amounting to a righty/lefty swap.
I grade the trade roughly neutral, Bloom did ok on this one. You have to recall that the lefty shortage was a situation of his own making, as was designating Barnes to begin with. It’ll be interesting to see who goes next off the 40-man.
The one positive to this move besides getting more balance for the ‘pen is the cost of the ’24 option. In this case it’s less than half what Barnes is due. So, barring another breakout year Barnes would’ve likely seen his buyout exercised followed by him leaving the club to close for a non-contender. Now there’s an affordable arm lined up for next year unless the kid totally tanks. So, for that aspect of the trade, credit is given, although, again, you temper it with the fact that bloom did give the contract with the overpriced option attached.
If I had to grade it, b-, borderline b.
Yeah, it’s a bummer. Now I feel like it’s nothing.
German
That’s a really bad take, especially when they had to DFA Franklin German to make space for Bleier who himself will probably be DFA’d before the end of 2023. Not sure who I would’ve rather dropped off the roster if I needed a 40-man spot, but it wouldn’t have been a 25-year-old RHP who touches 99 mph, has a solid slider, and a serviceable changeup/splitter and 6 years of control.
What makes this worse is they aren’t saving money and Barnes is the much better pitcher than Bleier. Adding a lefty, whether a bat or an arm only makes sense if they are useful. A team of slap-hitting lefties 1-9 in the lineup still needs a LH bat until they get someone who can bat in the middle of the order. So adding a LH reliever when you have to stay in for three batters, only has value if they can actually get RH batters out as well.
Righties vs Bleier in 2022 hit .336/.370/.513 which would’ve been the 8th highest qualifying OPS in baseball last year, just to put his failures again RH batters in context. Barnes will probably be the closer or setup man for the Marlins AND the Red Sox DFA’d the reliever who was probably the best of the three (German). Chaim Bloom sucks as a GM and is ruining the Red Sox, but I guess he did okay in this trade!
German has control issues and no secondary pitch at this point. This trade lowers the Red Sox 2023 luxury tax payroll by $1.6M and their 2024 luxury tax payroll by $2M…and they get a serviceable pitcher for Barnes who has been pretty erratic. They may also get something in return for German.
Dumb take
It’s a B+
Your reasonings suck. GG.
Um why Marlins?
Right. This makes no sense to me. Bleier consistently puts up better numbers, costs half the price, and is a lefty. imo, he has more value so I don’t understand why a team, especially a penny-pinching team like the Marlins, would do this.
You answered your own point. Key word is value, and that word is not in the Marlins vernacular
Barnes was an absolute stud the 2nd half of the season. Pretty easy to understand why a team would take a chance on him.
Buy low sell high, Marlins clearly think Matt Barnes has a higher ceiling and that all Barnes needs is a change of scenery. I think they are right, Barnes will have no pressure in Miami. I expect him to return to all-star form. The lights in Boston is too bright for him.
Seems like a great return for Barnes.
Yup clearing most of the money was great too. Chaim got a steal
New rule, Chaim can only make trades with Kim Ng from now on.
Boston got a gold NG-gut, definitely a heist for Chaim. Mark it on the calendar.
Beats my guess of Taylor Saucedo from the Mets. I’d say rather have Bleier, too.
Saucedo’s much much better.
no
Sox needed a lefty and the Marlins needed a Closer. Win/win?
Barnes is not a closer. Lol
Sure, overall he “isn’t” due to mechanics inconsistency, but when he has his mechanics straight he absolutely is a worthy one, and has been in the past. I absolutely would not gamble on him finding that again, but at least he’s done it before. You make it sound like he hasn’t.
Barnes had one sensational stretch his whole career, the rest he was just good and some bad.
I didn’t say he hasn’t. He’s just not good at it. Which is why I said he’s not a closer.
I think you might be underselling him a bit. In the five years from 2017-2021, Barnes ranked 10th in K% and 17th in fWAR among all qualified relievers.
Maybe I am but I was looking at him from a closers perspective. I suppose I shouldn’t do that
I can see why you’d do that, since he’s being discussed by some here as a possible closer.
You are looking at it from a Boston fan perspective. In Boston and New York there are expectations from the team, from the fans, and from the media. Barnes isn’t the kind of dude who can flourish in that environment. He began to find himself in the 2nd half because the team was out the hunt, no expectations. I expect the Marlins will win this trade because Barnes will have no pressure in Miami. Nobody cares, in Miami….
Given that he missed 66 days with shoulder pain from 06/01/2022 – 08/05/2022, it seems more likely that he improved because he was healthy.
There was plenty of pressure in 2021, when he saved 24 games and the Sox made it to the ALCS.
He certainly is a closer as the game usually ends when he gets the ball in the 9th inning…
Yup. Marlins down 12-1 in the 9th and in comes Barnes.
His save % is somewhere around 50%. He’s not a closer.
That figure includes every save opportunity since he was a rookie, long before he ever got the closer job in 2021. If you calculate his conversion rate since 2021, it’s 80%.
He is 47 of 54 in GF save opportunities.
No, he’s 47 of 73 over his career. But since 2021, he’s 32 of 40.
mlb.com/player/matt-barnes-598264
In appearances in the 9th inning he is 47 of 54. Hence the GF.
Yes. Exactly.
that’s because you are looking at the wrong stats. If someone comes in with a 3-2 lead, and bases loaded, in the 6th inning, and allows one run, it is considered a blown save, even though there is no real save opportunity. That’s one of baseball’s stupidest stats.
A BS should only be recorded if a save opportunity is practical.
Guess this takes Boston out of the lefty reliever market. Another move is coming since they need a spot on the 40-man for Bleier
Brasier?
Ort more likely. Bloom loves guys with low walk rates
Nah, it’s not low walk rates, it’s strikeout guys he loves.
Bleier struck out 32 batters in 50 innings last year. 14.4% K rate, 4.5% BB rate
If they were going to DFA brasier, they would’ve done it by now.
I know, a man can dream lol
@aggee10, not necessarily. There is a pecking order to who gets pushed off the plank. Last week Red Sox fans were wondering why Barnes and not Brasier, but it may not have been an either-or situation. It could be who goes first, or who has more value to trade. I suspect Brasier will stick, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he goes.
In retrospect, clearing Barnes off the roster, saving $5MM and getting a useful lefty reliever means Barnes was the correct choice last week.
Fair enough. Lol
Is Brasier older than Barnes? Bloom seems to like his old fogeys.
Dalbec could well be gone by the end of the week and/or Duran.
I doubt Duran but I could see Dalbec get traded or dropped.
I don’t see what role Dalbec has on this team.
Red Sox Designate Franklin German For Assignment
Bloom… the Magic Man
Because he made the whole 2018 WS team disappear?
Lol
That was a pretty good one
Don’t forget the good ole change of scenery. Perhaps that’s what Barnes needed to stay consistent
He never was consistent. One good stretch in his career.
Sort of makes me wonder if they already knew they could trade him
That’s what others said initially. I wasn’t smart enough then to realize it.
Bloom is certainly not the only one that does this, but I’d bet that a lot of deals (FA, Trades, depth pickups) are agreed to, but not announced. If SD is going to sign Wacha, for example, they need to make a 40-man move. They might Wacha already signed, but might ask his agent to not say anything until they see if the can move their #40 guy.
Or maybe Bloom tells Ng ‘we will agree to xyz, but want to DFA Barnes to see if we can get a better offer”. And maybe Ng tells Bloom that they can shop her offer, but in return, they have to throw in $1M into the deal.
Or maybe Bloom didn’t even instigate this. Our fans think this is a uni-polar world, but it is possible that Ng asked Bloom how much Barnes would cost, and worked backwards. Maybe she called up Bloom the day Taylor was traded and said Miami has an extra lefty for you. Maybe she was the one that suggested Boston trade Taylor for Mondesi.
Too many fans look at this like a rotisserie game and don’t realize how deep the thinking is.
Good Take
Bittersweet Moment. Barnes was the only player I got to meet and I will always have good stories about him. He was brilliant at times and was horrifying as well. The Red Sox definitely won this deal and I do not regret them doing it but it hurts a little inside. The longest tenured player on this team is now Chris Sale and will soon be Rafael Devers. Happy Trails, Thank you for time here.
Don’t the Sox have to DFA someone else before completing the deal? lol right back where they started on the 40 man problem… but I do like the deal.
Still saves 5 mil
This may be the one that finally pushes Braiser out, unless whatever hold he has on the Sox front office is too strong
For some reason I don’t think Brasier is ever leaving
I guess they do because Barnes was already DFA’d
Dalbec could well be gone by the end of the week and/or Duran. They do not need to clear a spot until the deal is official, including all medicals, so there is time.
My bet is Dalbec
Ort
Red Sox Designate Franklin German For Assignment
Rocky?
Pittsburg Steelers, Vietnam war vet who lost part of his foot
An arrest warrant has been issued against Bloom for robbery
Strahm’s replacement for a lot less money.
And we dumped some garbage
Helluva deal. They got a guy to shut down tough left handed hitters and didn’t have to pay Barnes salary to get the deal done..only a mil..damn Bloom got a steal.
I actually like this deal for the Fish. If Barnes can regain some of what made him elite, he would form a nasty 1-2 with Floro at the back of the pen. Still feel like they need to add a Brad Hand/Zach Britton or someone of that nature
Well stretch, What he really needs is the “sticky stuff” rule to be dropped then he will excel again!
The bullpen is now officially a strength., It may be the only thing that is offically a strength for the Red Sox but still…
It may be the only thing that is offically a strength for the Red Sox but still…
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The strength of the RS is that they don’t really have many weaknesses. On the pitching side, their rotation is thin. The current rotation will amass a better-than-average ERA, but I don’t see enough innings from them. Then it is up to Winc & Crawford, whom I don’t hate, but we’re in trouble if both guys get 100 innings. And all 8 RPs project to 100+ ERAs.
And I like all 13 guys on offense. But again, the non-roster 40-man candidates don’t fill me with confidence.
Joe;
This is what the Rays do…..
It’s not so much that their depth chart contains starters and back-ups, as it contains 26 players that are all going to get in games. The players have individual strengths – the managers job is to get them into games where they can have a positive affect the outcome. Doesn’t mean some of the players won’t primarily be starters as position players or have set roles on the pitching staff. It does mean that while the ceiling is lower, the floor is higher. Makes it easier for a team to stay competitive when injuries happen.
I look for the Sox to surprise in 2024, if not 2023.
@Samuel
What is coming for the Sox in 2024 to propel them to be significantly better?
. I haven’t seen any arms really come through the Bloom system. Maybe he’ll surprise me next year but for a guy who was so instrumental to TB’s pitching philosophies—the results have been extremely underwhelming.
JoeBrady – I can’t tell whether you are being sarcastic, ironic or simply don’t understand the Red Sox roster.
They are closer to all weaknesses versus no weaknesses. Catcher is a weakness, DH is a weakness if Yoshida or Devers aren’t at that position, 3B Devers defense is a huge weakness, if they play the lifetime .241 hitter at SS then that’s a huge weakness, if they play Mondesi it’s not a weakness until he gets hurt, Arroyo at 2B is a weakness, Casas at 1B is a weakness until he learns how to hit MLB pitching, Yoshida is like Devers in that he’s half a weakness his defense, Duvall is nuetral at best and Verdugo isn’t a weakness but he’s also not a strength.
That’s a lot of weaknesses and I didn’t address the part of the line-up you already think is weak. To me the pitching isn’t as much a weakness as the hitting it’s an unknown. Good Sale or bad Sale? Who knows? Good Paxton or bad Paxton? Who knows? All the young starters getting better or regressing? Who knows? The bullpen is not a weakness but it might not matter if they aren’t ever ahead in the game.
Even with this trade with Miami that is addition through subtraction paid for entirely by Bloom this 2023 team is a disaster still. It’s still highly likely to be just as embarrassing as the 2022 team and possibly the 2020 team.
The good news is Bloom didn’t hurt the future with this move he simply wasted money in 2023 a dead year. Is Bleier a long term roster guy? I doubt it. Was Barnes yet another wasted signing by Bloom? Absolutely.
If you really like the 13 guys on offense I want you in my fantasy league because they are bad. Not league average, they as a group are bad.
Catcher is a weakness, DH is a weakness if Yoshida or Devers aren’t at that position, 3B Devers defense is a huge weakness, if they play the lifetime .241 hitter at SS then that’s a huge weakness, if they play Mondesi it’s not a weakness until he gets hurt, Arroyo at 2B is a weakness, Casas at 1B is a weakness until he learns how to hit MLB pitching, Yoshida is like Devers in that he’s half a weakness his defense, Duvall is nuetral at best and Verdugo isn’t a weakness but he’s also not a strength.
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I expect 2+ fWAR from every position. A few of the positions will be marginal 2.0 fWARs, like in 1.8-1.9, but we should not have any crash and burn like last year.
And let me know which fantasy league you are in. I’ll gladly take my chances.
JoeBrady – I don’t speak baseball geek and I don’t believe in fangraphs as my only source of information so what exactly does a 2+ fWAR translate to in REAL terms? 100 wins, 50 wins? Is there ANY relevance to saying a 2+ fWAR translates to wins? I got my answer and I’ve published it below.
Here is the summary of fWAR written by a metric guy named Mark Bailey a former player and coach who writes for Baseball Bible:
What types of players typically have high fWAR values?
In general terms, a role player (think defensive specialist or utility player) will be good for a WAR of about 2. A standard starter will garner you 2-3 games. An above-average starter will get you 3–4 games. An All-Star player? 4-5. All-Star standout? 5-6 games. Are you a candidate for league MVP? You are looking at six wins or above.
JoeBrady you pegged the entire line-up as no less than a utility player. Bold statement!! haha I’d say the teams in deep trouble if your statement is accurate after the fact. Oh yeah, here are his final thoughts on this metric you love to throw around.
“Final thoughts
The beauty of statistics lies in the eyes of the beholder. Certain statistics will hold more weight than others, depending on what information you value. WAR statistics are a popular stat to use to analyze players. The math is relatively easy. Just remember that these statistics are calculated guesses.”
Please NOTE his last comment. CALCULATED GUESSES not facts. That’s why fWAR is NOT a statistic. It is an estimation which relies entirely on a set of assumptions that may or may not be faulty. WAR gets fined tuned each year because it’s NOT A FACT. It’s parameters get refined based on opinions of people, most of which never played the game. It is based on silly comparisons that don’t necessarily hold true. Establishing the comps in the calculation of the fWAR is arbitrary and in fact can be off significantly. That’s why he wrote the following about it’s huge weakness.
“However, imagine that player A’s statistics come in clutch situations while player B’s stats often come when the game is out of reach. Would you consider player A more valuable than player B? Most likely, you would, but WAR statistics might not reveal that difference to you.
Yes, the statistics could be valuable for a number of different decisions, but they should be used with caution.”
USED WITH CAUTION. You need to heed the warning because I can post projected stats for the alleged 2+ players that will show just how bad this Red Sox team projects to be and no simulated number should EVER over rule real data. Even if you simply use their performance for the past year, or the last three years, this team is very bad position by position with very few exceptions on the hitting side.
I will let you know as we approach the season of a standard fantasy league that I will set up so you can join and compete head to head with me. It should be fun. I hope you take those 2+ players that are going to make Boston a good team in 2023!!
you pegged the entire line-up as no less than a utility player.
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You’re missing two key points.
1-The 2+ is in reference to no weaknesses, not an indication of greatness.
2-If 2 is the baseline, we’ll do well since some of the players will do well in excess. You are apparently thinking along the lines of 9*2=18. This is more like 2+2+2+2+3+3+3+4+5.
JoeBrady – Most experts wouldn’t agree with you on point 1. 2+ is not all numbers over 2 it’s a value between 2 and 3 that is more than 2 and less than 3. If every player is classified as a utility player, that’s not a good thing.
Point 2 – 2 is not a baseline, it’s a floor for acceptable players.. Unfortunately, the majority of the starting hitters have performed at a level below the floor for the past 3 years. As I pointed out only Devers and Justin Turner are locks to be above the floor. Maybe Yoshida if he can hit MLB pitching and be comfortable living and playing in the US. That’s radically different from the rest of the AL East. Most teams have more than 2 guaranteed deviations from the floor.
In the end, you are using the WAR PROJECTION (not stat) incorrectly and you are grossly over estimating the Red Sox. Last year their team WAR was 15.8. You are suggesting it will rise from 15.8 to 26 after losing JD, Bogey, Story for half a year and Vazquez.
By contrast, the Houston Astro’s team WAR was 29.2 last year. That’s close to the 26 you are suggesting for Boston.
If you think the hitting in 2023 will be closer to the 2022 Houston Hitting than the 2022 Red Sox hitting, you are officially nuts. There is a great chance that the team WAR in 2023 will be below the 15.8 from 2022.
FYI…. the Baltimore Orioles 2022 WAR was 22.2, Toronto’s was 31.5, the NY Yankees was 36.7 and Tampa Bays was 21.2.
Why were you so far off in your projection for 2023?
C – 2023 estimate 2 – last year 1.9 thanks to Vazquez who is goine
1B – 2023 estimate 2 – last year -1.5 only Dalbec and Casas remain if JT DH
2B – 2023 estimate 2 – last year 1.9 but Story’s 2.5 is gone
SS – 2023 estimate 4 – last year 5.8 but Bogey’s 5.8 is gone
3B – 2023 estimate 5 – last year 4.4 assuming Devers at 3B 5 is fair
OF – 2023 estimate 3 – last year 1.2 Verdugo is replaced by Yoshida too high
OF – 2023 estimate 2 – last year 0.4 Duvall’s last 2.0 War was in 2017 too high
OF – 2023 estimate 3 – last year 1.0 Refsnyder out Verdugo’s 1.2 instead
DH – 2023 estimate 3 – last year 1.1 JD gone JT replaces with 2.0 to 2.5 likely
You love to throw out guesses but these don’t map to the performances from last year or the years prior to last year so you have grossly over-estimated the team for 2023 since talent has dropped off.
Now put that into perspective with the WAR numbers by the rest of the division in 2022 and you can see, Boston needs a 50% increase in WAR in 2023 over 2022 after losing tons of hitting to have a shot at catching either BAL or TB. That’s simply not going to happen.
Sorry JB, your guess is a very, very bad one that doesn’t map to any facts. If Boston puts up a 15 WAR call it a major victory considering the huge losses they’ve had on the hitting side this off season. 15 will guarantee a 5th place finish in the division and no post season. Even if the pitching is as great as TB’s, the Red Sox still won’t be able to win enough games to finish 4th. The only hope is that all the other AL East teams suffer from massive injuries to bring them back to Boston and I can’t root for injuries. Fix the talent and the problems go away. To fix the talent you must fire Bloom and hire a very knowledgeable, experienced GM to reverse the Bloom curse.
This team reminds me of 2013. The 2012 Sox were last, no big FA’s were added –only Napoli & Victorii — yet all the pieces fit together making the whole greater than the sum of the parts..
McQuire was a #1 pick as a HS C. Last yr he started to show a maturing talent.
Tek should be able to help him and Wong to develop into an above average R/L platoon.
Refsnyder was fine vs LHP and can be an OK 4th OF.
Turner will have a decent shot at staying healthy as a DH.
Dalbec gives them a RH bat to spell Casas/Devers at 1/3.
Kike/Mondesi/Arroyo can be kept healthy by rotating them.
As always over 162 there will be AB’s for players that aren’t expected to be there but that’s true for every team.
If the P’s stay healthy and perform this team can compete for a playoff spot and shock the pundits like in 2021.
Starting they added Napoli, Drew, Gomes, and Victorino. David Ross as backup catcher.
On the pitching side they added Dempster and Lackey witb Peavy coming in trade midseason. Plus they added Koji in the pen.
Those are some huge changes.
That’s sounds exactly like what we did this year.
Funny that’s what I thought about team 2 years ago when they made it to alcs… koji was huge!!! Arguably top five reliever seasons of all time( last 20 years at least statistically ) but 13 also had ONE huge exception to any team to follow…..34…..
Koji was huge in 2013 but he was the third choice to be the closer.. In Jan. 2013 many were saying Ortiz was over the hill. Duvall, Yoshida, Mondesi, McQuire , Sale, Paxton, Kluber have as much upside as Gomes,Victorino, Ross, Drew, et al. I am not saying the Sox are favorites but they are not as hopeless as some on here seem to think.
Just for fun:
Ross = Wong (or Ross/Salty = McGuire/Wong
Victorino/Gomes = Yoshida/Duvall
Dempster = Kluber
Napoli = Turner
Koji = Jansen + Martin
One can argue at the margins, but my guess is that the additions to this year’s team are better than the additions to the 2013 team.
jmi1950 – Making chicken salad out of chicken ____. You must be a chef!!
McGuire lets compare him to what Baltimore has – Rutschman. Nobody in their right mind takes him over Rutschman. So what do the other AL East teams have in comparision.
Listed TOR, NYY, TB, BAL,then BOS
C – Kirk/Jansen, Trevino/Higoshioka, Bethacourt/Mejia, Rutschman/McCann McGuire/Wong – Boston ranks 5th
1B – V Guerrero, Rizzo, H Ramirez, Mountcastle, Casas = Boston ranks 5th
2B – Merrifield, Torres, B Lowe, A Frazier, Mondesi – If healthy 3rd if not 5th
SS – Bichette, Peraza, Franco, Mateo, Kiki – Hands down 5th
3B – Chapman, LeMahieu, Y Diaz, G Henderson, Devers – Boston ranks 1st
LF – Varsho, Hicks, Arozarena, Hays, Yoshida – Can’t rank Yoshida without data. Varsho and Arozarena very likely to be better so 3rd is best guess.
CF – Kiermeyer, Bader, Siri, Mullins, Duvall – Boston ranks 3rd at best
RF – Springer, Judge, Margot, Santander, Verdugo – Boston ranks 3rd or 4th
DH – Belt, Stanton, Aranda, Stowers, Turner – Boston ranks 1st
Look at the names on the other teams compared to ours. It’s easy to see why on paper Boston has the 5th best hitting going into 2023. It’s strengths are Devers and Justin Turner. It ranks last at C, It ranks bottom 3 in all other positions. To make the playoffs you must finish NO LOWER THAN 4th in the division and 3 teams in the division need to comprise all Wildcard spots.
That’s simply not going to happen without so huge event changing the course of 2023.
Well, even if you have a very good bullpen it gets ground down and dissipated eventually if you don’t have starters that can get into the 5th inning. This happened to the Rays in recent years as well.
My guess is that Ort goes. This is Bloom at his finest. He trades Taylor for Mondesi, and then Barnes for Bleier, which makes it basically Mondesi for Barnes, and several more millions to spare. It feels like the Diekman trade where he not only got rid of a weak contract, he actually got something back.
I’m surprised and impressed that the Sox got anything of value for Barnes.
They didn’t.
clearly you don’t know much about baseball but even you think Bleier isn’t worth much getting the Marlins to take on almost all of his salary is better than having to eat the full amount.
Bloom clears almost all of the salary and nabs the second lefty the roster clearly needed; commenters will *still* find a way to demolish him. Solid move.
Not necessarily a bad move for Miami, either. The bet on a Barnes rebound looks like $3.05m w/ 2.5m buyout. If he does rebound a lot of the way back, it’s a late inning righty that doesn’t require a three year commitment at more than twice that salary. If he does rebound a lot of the way, you can keep him at 1@8 instead of having to give him the Montero contract.
That’s what I’m thinking. I really like this move for the Red Sox, But it’s too early to decide if Barnes can close for the Fish. His peripherals are shaky, but he was pretty decent towards the end of the season. If he becomes even a mediocre closer, the Fish will have done well.
FWIW, I had Barnes as a positive for the RS in my predictions, just a pretty expensive positive. This could easily work out for both teams.
That’s the thing Joe…
Chaim not only got a LH reliever to replace Strahm, but he dumped Barnes’ issues. The Sox did everything to try to get him right. The coaches couldn’t do anymore. He was taking up a roster spot and wasn’t going to get any better with the Sox. The Sox save money all around, and open a spot in the bullpen that might go to a pitcher that has a positive impact in 2023.
As for Barnes – maybe Mel Stottlemyre, Jr. can do something with him. I think most Sox fans would be happy to see Mr. Barnes pitch well again. He’s in the NL – the Sox only play the Marlins 3 times this year….and Bleier can pitch against the Marlins in those games
as well.
Going to a bigger park will also help.
Barnes had a fastball problem. When he was really good when he got that contract he was throwing 96-99 mph fastballs and then striking everyone out with that curveball which is nearly un-hittable when it’s right. The problem arises when his fastball suddenly lost velocity sat more in the 93-95 range and was flat. It also appeared he had to throw out if his shoes to get to 95.
If he can get the high 90’s fastball back then this will be a good deal for Miami if he is still struggling to throw a flat 95 fastball then he will get shelled. He has to throw that high 90’s fastball because his fastball is on the flat side. If you are a Miami fan look for that those extra 2-3 mph are key for him. He also needs to trust his fastball and throw it for strikes to get ahead then use that hammer curve to finish the hitter off.
@rhswanzey, I’m a Yankee fan and I said nice things about the deal. Unless that now makes it a bad deal? : -). Nah, I think Bloom did well here by clearing salary and getting a good situational lefty.
This seems like a curious move for the Marlins to make so I need some input from Fish fans to help it make sense lol…Do the Marlins have an excess of left-handers that made Bleier expendable and instead are playing for a return to form from Barnes?
At a glance, it looks like Bleier‘s had a better past few years and was on a more team friendly deal than Barnes.
I’ve been pretty harsh on Bloom, but this seems like a really good deal for someone they were going to flat out drop.
This is where I’m heading scratching. I thought it was bad we DFA’d Barnes but then Bloom makes a deal out of it. Hard to know what’s in that guy’s head.
Hard to know what’s in that guy’s head.
==============
That’s what I try to tell people. Ng could’ve called up Bloom a month ago to tell him she had an interest in Barnes. It’s entirely possible that the framework was in place for three weeks, but they needed to make other moves first.
Bloom definitely has chess pieces that people undermine but he hasn’t used them effectively in every situation
The Marlins GM is back to making trades again without supervision. This is what happens.
I think overhauling is needed.
All of these guys the Sox have who are up and down, and there’s A LOT, to me falls on the coaching staff.
I’d love to bring back Francona and just start over. Tooooooo many freakin projects and hopes
Lol at all the Dude of the Week” nominations for Bloom. for acquiring a 36 yr old situational one trick pony lefty-
Pray he doesn’t face Rt handed hitters at the Fens as they will be tattooing the Monster of this alleged gift from gawd….errr Miami.
C9me on, Bloom is the smartest kid on the short bus for the day. Just let us hang one on the fridge and give him some props.
How does he fit into the roster if he replaces a guy who was DFA’d?
The Sox will need to DFA another player to fit Bleier onto the roster as they already used Barnes’ DFA spot for one of their more recent free agent signings (Duvall I believe).
Ort
Red Sox Designate Franklin German For Assignment
I thought Barnes went into the tank because of the ban on spidertac? He throws a knuckle curve and it was all about spin rates until then rule change.
Everyone else found a way around the new rule. Wonder why he didn’t?
Barnes being a big sticky stuff guy might have been the best kept, most obvious secret in baseball. Seems like a massive oversight by Miami.
Another oversight by Miami might be how the pitch clock affects Barnes. He has been a very slow worker over his career, seemingly struggling with mental demons on the mound. Who knows, maybe it will work out better for Barnes where he won’t need to think too much out there. Just step on the rubber, get the sign and throw the ball.
I think the pitch clock might help Barnes. He’s a guy that thinks too much when he’s on the mound, spiraling more and more out of control, but he’s at his best when he’s just throwing and trusting his “stuff”.
I think the pitch clock will force him to get back into that routine of just getting on the mound and throwing. Unfortunately it can’t force him to throw strikes, so hopefully he’ll learn to trust his pitches again.
The deep fences in Miami as well as getting away from the ALE lineups will help him trust his stuff.
The key will be if Stottlemyre can get him fixed up the same way he’s done well with the SPs.
I don’t think he had cleared waivers, so technically he was on the 40. Bleier takes Barnes’s spot on the 40.
Sounds like it may have been a good deal for both players.
Barnes is already off the 40 man his spot was claimed by Duvall. Boston currently has 21 pitchers on the 40 someone is going to be dfa probably a pitcher.
Ort
Red Sox Designate Franklin German For Assignment
He must really see something in Ort
Many times “the obvious” (that Bosox came quite ahead on this trade) – is not necessarily correct.. There’s possibly something the Marlins knew about Barnes that we are not aware of . Time will tell.
Hopefully Marlins are getting 2019 and/or 2021 Matt Barnes.
LolMarlins
This is crazy heist by Sox. They got the better reliever for a cheaper price
Better Reliever ? We’ll know this season. Cheaper? It’s a wash.
Heist? Far from it.
Bleier is a bad, old, junkballer. Dependent on batted ball luck and can only be used vs lefties.
Incorrect. He had some luck with his HR/FB of 7.0%, but some bad luck with his BABIP with a .341. Without doing the math, I’d say those two numbers exactly offset each other.
A cash neutral swap is considered a heist to you? Lol most of the kids here really did jump the gun before all the details of the trade came out
Seems like the MARLINS are in route to boosting its depleted bullpe.n… Suggestion ; How about signing useful free-agent WILY PERALTA to a minor league deal ?
Hate to see Barnes go but it’s a good move for both teams. Hope he does well in his new environment. As another “Boy from Bethel”, I can only wish him the best.
Comes out now that it’s a cash neutral deal. Basically righty for Lefty. Red Sox seen enough of Barnes and took back a lefty and the financial commitments remain the same. Not as good as we once thought but still I’ll take it. Tired of Barnes.
Hmmm…let me think about this. Hmmm…maybe Ng is thinking…hmmm…maybe she’s thinking…hmmm…or maybe she is thinking…uhmmm…
Hmmm…hmmmm?
You have one note. I knew you’d come in here to blow it.
down goes brasier! down goes brasier!
This makes more sense with the money exchange.
It looks like the Red Sox did lower their luxury tax payroll a little bit. It is now $217.63M.
The Red Sox also lowered their 2024 luxury tax payroll by $2M. The numbers could change depending who they get for German, but as of now, the Red Sox have lowered their 2023 and 2024 luxury tax payrolls while trading Barnes for a pitcher who is probably comparable to better.
It all counts. In 2021, we managed to add Iglesias and Robles for about the same money as we just saved, and that got us into the playoffs.
I’d give Barnes another shot at starting. I could see him being a reliable back end of the rotation type.
He isn’t likely to get that with the Marlins. Too many young pitchers in the organization. It would take a lot of injuries and failed performances for Barnes to even be considered.
Shut up! You’re 100% right, but the Marlins throw away more pitching than the RS have in their system. They have like 6-7 Bello+ equivalents.
Bro…you can’t make this stuff up. They just designated him for assignment..
As a Red Sox fan, this is great. 1-1.5 years ago, Bleier had exponentially more value than right now, but he is very useful when used correctly, which he hasnt been, and has done a better job of missing some bats more recently as well. He also has 2 years of control remaining, very cheaply
As a Marlins fan, its more of the same, at minimum, incredibly questionable/outright disgusting use of asset management, and really just common sense. I’m actually ok with them moving a lefty reliever b/c that is the one thing g they actually could afford to move, but I would have looked to move Tanner Scott or Okert, or one of the others before Bleier…especially not for someone who was just designated for assignment, and has fallen off the way Barnes has. The Marlins desperately need guys that can pitch in high leverage situations out of the bullpen, but you just traded your best LHRP remaining to hope that Barnes can go back a fee years and help in that area you somehow just got weaker in again…
Clown show
I would’ve definitely moved Okert in this deal before moving Bleier. Scott would’ve been moved if the Sox absolutely didn’t want Okert.
This smells of a desperation move by Ng. She didn’t want Barnes on the open market because she most likely would’ve not got him…just like the many other guys she hasn’t been able to add from the open market (Hosmer, Bellinger, Chapman, etc.). She knows she can’t show up to FanFest without having some move that looks like a plausible attempt at improving the bullpen.
What she needs to be doing is talking to the Royals about Barlow. And she needs to bring in Alex Reyes. In fact, bringing in Reyes would make this Barnes deal an ok move. Ditto if she can add Barlow. If she can add both Barlow and Reyes after this move, then it’s been a solid offseason after she took a nap until we were weeks away from pitchers and catchers reporting.
Barnes, who has always walked the world and then hasnt been the same since the sticky stuff situation… obviously, I’ve been watching him for many years, but outside of a small stretch of time, like maybe 1.5 years, confindece level in Barnes hasnt been great. The Marlins desperately need this to work out for them, and for 1 of the guys they have to somehow find significant improvement.
It would also really help if young guys that get opportunities (which they havent been getting) pitch extremely well in that role
Yes, this definitely needs to work out.
And with the young guys and no opportunities as a Closer for any of them, I think all of us are puzzled as to the logic. The Marlins (Ng) refuse to get a legit Closer via trade or free agency, but then don’t see if one of their young pitchers who isn’t winning a role as a starter, can actually take over the Closer role. And they insist on throwing guys in the Closer role, who are veteran middle relievers who failed their entire careers when having the opportunities to try pitching in high-leverage situations. And to top it off, the young pitchers who can’t secure a starting role, are let go to other franchises before being tested as high-leverage relief pitchers. None of this makes any sense.
We let guys like Elieser Hernandez, Jordan Yammamoto, etc. others who showed they can get 3 outs, go to other organizations without checking to see if any of them can pitch in a Set-up or Closer role? We did that with the likes of Brad Hand and Andrew Miller. We didn’t learn from those mistakes?
I was talking mostly about different guys…I also thought both of those guys should have been moved for bullpen help when they had value
I continue to think that Marlin fans are under-estimating Barnes. In the right circumstances, he can still be effective. As I mentioned elsewhere, my pre-season predictions had him as a positive. But with Jansen, Schreiber, Whitlock, Houck & Martin, there was really no need for Barnes.
But the Marlins needed a RH RP.
Barnes has tools. The Marlins have a pitching coach who knows how to get guys to respond. Bleier’s 2 year deal appeared to be a mistake early last year. He did pitch better as the season wore on but never in high leverage. Barnes hasn’t seen the NL East opponents as much, and can possibly be brought back by Mel and the low key-low stress atmosphere in Miami. I think Miami will be A-okay at the end of this, and maybe get Barnes back to being effective late
Both Barnes and Taylor (in KC) will have banner yrs because of the big OF’s and zero expectations ie no pressure.
Vero – Be fair when you use the word “tools” when referencing a guy like Barnes.
He’s been inconsistent his whole career. He should never have been re-signed by Bloom. He had a couple of months where he was what everyone hoped he could be but his service time is 9 years, his career era is 4.07 and early years and late years are equally bad. His WHIP is 1.34. That’s E-Rod territory. How did that contract work out for Detroit? They got normal E-Rod. Over a 4 era and 1.33 WHIP.. Slightly better era but still bad and a worse WHIP for $77MM over 5 years. OUCH!! Bloom dodged a bullet. Should have dodged one with Barnes but didn’t.
To suggest Barnes has tools is a gross exaggeration of the normal meaning of tools when it comes to pitchers. He has bad control with a walk rate of 4.2 per 9 IP. His H/9 IP jumped by 1.4 in 2022 making his over $9MM a year a large waste of money. I think its fair to call Barnes a tool but to suggest he has tools is a phrase that suggests something far greater than what he possesses.
PulledaBloom
He’s been inconsistent his whole career.
=====================
I don’t think he had the mental approach to be a closer, but he was very consistent priot to his promotion. His ERA+:
111
118
121
129
113
124
98
And even the 98 was a tale of two bad months and two good months.
JoeBrady – Interesting use of ERA+. It measures a year versus the rest of the league but it doesn’t measure the components of his pitching. Lets look at both and see if inconsistent truly does fit.
You love this kind of stuff so here you go:
His career spans 9 seasons:
H/9 – 11, 11, 8.4, 7.4, 6.9, 7.1, 7.0, 6.8, 7.2
HR/9 – 1, 1.9, 0.8, 0.9, 0.7, 1.1, 1.6, 1.3, 0.5
BB/9 – 2, 3.1, 4.2, 3.6, 4.5, 5.3, 5.5, 3.3, 4.8
K/9 – 8, 8.2, 9.6, 10.7, 14, 15.4, 12.1, 13.8, 7.7
ERA – 4.00, 5.44, 4.05, 3.88, 3.65, 3.78, 4.30, 3.79, 4.31
WHIP – 1.44, 1.65, 1.40, 1.22, 1.27, 1.38, 1.39, 1.12, 1.44
So what constitutes inconsistency? Your ERA+ numbers show a 6% increase from YR1 to YR2 and then the following changes: 2.5% increase, 14% increase, 12.5% decrease, 10% increase, 21% decrease.
This seems like a real roller coaster set of numbers which most would suggest is inconsistent year to year but if you want to suggest he stayed within a consistent range of 98 to 129 that’s a fair statement but it suggests his range was over 30% which is significant. Now add the two years you chose to drop to make your point and his other two ERA+ values are 104 and 80 to start his career.expanding his career range from 80 to 129. That’s an even greater inconsistency from a normalized annual number.
The data you brought forth shows conclusively that he was inconsistent year to year which was my point.
Lets add insult to injury and look at my other facts not normalized numbers.
H/9 varied from 11 to 6.9
HR/9 varied from 0.5 to 1.9
BB/9 varied from 2.0 to 5.5
K/9 varied from 7.7 to 15.4
ERA varied from 3.65 to 5.44
WHIP varied from 1.12 to 1.65
To wrap up, this guy’s career numbers are bad in almost every way.
H/9 at 7.9 is a strength, HR/9 at 1.0 isn’t bad, BB/9 at 4.2 is terrible, K/9 at 11.6 is excellent, ERA at 4.07 is bad, WHIP at 1.341 is terrible.
He walks to many and he is not just inconsistent year to year but he was month to month, week to week and even game to game. That’s a problem for a manager trying to pick the right time to use a guy.
He’s like E-Red. He looks good, his stuff looks good but he can’t ever seem to pull it all together to perform well for extended periods of time. His ups are great and his downs were disasters. He had roughly an equal amount of them so choosing when to use him was nearly impossible.
Barnes is a player that should have been identified as an inconsistent pitcher years ago and traded or not resigned. Considering how quickly better pitchers are being released by Bloom, this guy should never have been signed by Bloom especially in light of how he’s treated guys from the DD era. Keeping Betts, Bogey, Benny, JD or Nate would have made much more sense based on performance.
ERA at 4.07 is bad,
======================
No. If his career ERA+ is 112, then by definition, his ERA, no matter what the number, cannot be bad.
JoeBrady – This is the problem with putting comparison numbers out there for people to interpret.
Think of it this way…..
If you ran a race and there were 8 runners in the race and you finished 3rd you would say that’s good and your comparable number like ERA+ would suggest you were above average. Now, look at the times and see that it took you twice as long as the guy that finished 2nd. He is a highly competitive runner but you are not. Your comparative stat suggests you are better than the others in the race but they aren’t good either.
Is that really an accomplishment to brag about without trying to deceive people into thinking you are far better than you are?
ERA+ is a dangerous stat. It’s like OPS+, it needs something that determines whether the number is too comparative and not enough ordinal.
Normally, a sub 3.00 ERA is excellent, a 3.5 or less is good and an above .4.0 is bad. That’s the case throughout baseball history. ERA+ is a normalized number for comparison purposes. It must be evaluated with a grain of salt because the juice in the ball changes yearly, the number of teams tanking changes yearly so league averages are impacted and batting philosophies change along with defensive positional rules to change the overall numbers within MLB pitching.
You are welcome to say a 4.07 ERA is not bad. As a former pitcher, I would be embarrassed if I put up a 4.07 ERA. I would believe I did a bad job pitching to earn it. But that’s me. Some people have lower standards and that’s fine. Apparently, you are one of them. I will always consider 4.07 to be bad. Along with a WHIP over 1.30.
Marlins blew 31 saves last year and have lost like 60 1 run games the last couple of seasons, plus like 30 2 run games…far from low stress
Hopefully Mel can help him with his longstanding command issues, but I would prefer for this current iteration of the bullpen to have either more proven commodities, or guys that need to be given opportunity that havent/young guys they have in the upper minors that could be useful in that role
The cash neutral deal makes SOOO much more sense. The initial report was essentially implying the Marlins were giving up the (better statistical pitcher) and agreeing to take on more $ which really made no sense. Even if the Marlins are high on Barnes to rebound… agreeing to take on $5/6M and giving up a legit LH RP for a guy who was already DFA’d seemed quite odd. This makes more sense… still like it for the Sox to get LH RP to replace losses by moving Barnes. Though it did also result in DFA of German.
I’m betting that we get a return for German. Speculation, of course, but this resembles the Taylor trade that made the DFA Barnes, which lead to his trade.
I would be surprised if Bloom didn’t already receive an offer for German before putting him on waivers. It could be something as simple as DFA Ort for nothing, or DFA/trade German for some #250 SP/RP conversion.
Marlins and Red Sox belong in the same sentence.
Yes, they both beat the Yankees in the postseason.
They both have more WS rings this century than the Yankees.
I was all ready to give Suit the comment of the day award, but your follow-up was a pretty good shot to the groin.
While wearing cleats no doubt!!!
The Marlins don’t. They are tied with the Yankees at one.
Another 35+ year old player. Are the Red Sox bringing in any players that are not AARP members?
Ouch. The Red Sox are also sending $5.5 million to the Marlins.
Age doesn’t matter on one-year contracts. I actually like the direction this is going, at least on the BP pieces. Seattle got Teoscar because they could afford to trade Swanson. The RS have never had that luxury. Now we have 3 very good, young, controlled RPs. I’m hoping we can start developing one per year to replace the older, one-year guys.
Good day for the Marlins; they get Barnes from Boston with Sox paying more than half his salary and Jazz Chisholm is named cover athlete for MLB: The Show ’23
The Marlins got bent over the table here. Bleier’s worst season is better than Barnes best season. Not sure what Kim is smoking these days
Really? In a cash neutral trade? I’m very happy for the Sox then given Barnes best season for us.
Interesting take on Barnes, I have been salty on him since he started to fall
Apart after the 2021 all star break, but I’ve never had that poor of a take on him. Would have thought this trade was an easy W for Marlins
Nice job breaking the story, it went from the Sox kicking in $1M to cash neutral now. Might want to make sure you have the right details in the future.
I like it for both teams. Boston gets a middle reliever with below average stuff but a guy that can throw strikes and likely is usable and won’t beat himself.
And the marlins get a guy with upside and they have shown in the past that they can coach and develope pitchers, something that boston has never been able to.
Barnes might still flop but best case is the marlins can unlock something and he is a good closer.
They need to play with high variance anyway since on paper they are clearly only the 4th best team in the division and would need a lot of things to go right to even get close to a wild card bid.
Please stop the mythology tat Boston can’t develop and coach pitchers. It’s tired and wrong. They have turned careers around multiple times for guys who had already been on multiple teams. Miller, Pomeranz, Hill, Moyer, and many more. Yes. they were stupid to trade Moyer when he was 7 and 1 with a 13% better than average ERA. My gosh, look what they got out of Erod, out of Porcello (Cy Young), Wait and see how Bello does and the others in the pipeline. Yes, they have done better with bullpen pieces than starters through their system, but it’s ridiculous to say they don’t know what they’re doing with pitchers.
Not saying they can’t do it at all but the number of home grown above average starters they developed in the last 10 (really 15) years is ridiculously low.
They did do a little better with relievers but even there a lot of the guys are coming from other organizations.
Domingo and Whyhayzee – The challenge is to determine whether the pitchers drafted didn’t have the projected talent or the system failed them. Like Whyhayzee, I think there are many that have flourished in the system but many have also failed. I look at a guy like Anderson Espinoza as a perfect example.
Espinoza was signed out of Venezuela at 17 in 2015. He pitched in the DOSL in 2015 for 8 games and did average. He went to ROK ball and threw 10 games with outstanding results in 40 IP with a sub 1.00 ERA and WHIP. He got promoted to A ball for 1 start and got rocked for 3 runs in .3.1 IP.
In 2016, at age 18 while ranked #19 on the BA prospect list, he pitched at A ball. He had 17 starts, threw 76 innings with an ERA of 4.62 and a WHIP of 1.37. He gave up more than a hit an inning and his control wasn’t good but he was only 18 years old. At this point, you have to ask yourself if the scouts were wrong or does he have the potential to improve.
The GM makes that decision with help from the coaches and his staff. Dombrowski did not think his #19 ranking was valid so he traded him for Pomerantz. Fans went crazy on DD for giving away the future but they were wrong as they normally are when it comes to prospects. Dombrowski saw an opportunity to sell high and took it. Outstanding trade in hindsight. I liked it when it happened because Pomerantz was clearly a big upgrade that Boston needed.
To me, this is a case that shows the “scouting” was wrong not that there was a problem with the coaching. In SD, Espinoza floundered.from 2016 to 2021 when they traded him to the Cubs. It’s now 8 years later and Espinoza’s career totals are 7 games but no starts an ERA of 5.40 and a WHIP of 1.64. 2023 will be his pre-arb 1 year for the Cubs and he is 25. If you consider the time value of a player then DD’s move was brilliant since 8 years later this #19 prospect has done NOTHING but eat up a roster spot in the minors and now the majors.
So with so many pitchers in the farm system, I think it’s safe to say that it’s a combination of poor drafting AND poor development. Someone should hire a pitching development guy from STL or HOU to fix half the problem and maybe someone can be located that has a better understanding of upside potential of pitchers in the draft to fix the other side. You guys identified both issues and now Boston needs to fix both of them.
Honestly, it sounds like the Red Sox don’t want to put the effort into finding out and correcting Barnes’s issues. Barnes has a lot more upside than Bleier. And you’ve got to figure that Bleier’s rabbit‘s foot is going to run out at some point. He’s been getting people out with smoke and mirrors for far too long.
it sounds like the Red Sox don’t want to put the effort into finding out and correcting Barnes’s issues.
============================
That’s right. The RS spend millions on coaching and scouting, but don’t want to actually put any effort into correcting our players.
You cut your former closer to bring on a former minor league free agent.
Duvall has been undervalued his entire career. Now after his worst season he’s sign to play CF. Gets a former closer who was over valued cut and traded for a left reliever who as been under valued his entire career. What gives
former minor league free agent.
=======================
The last time he spent any meaningful time in the minors was 2016. Do try to keep up.
Hold on hold on Joe Mama, he played 101 games and had 429 PAs in 2019. Pretty sure he was a minor league player at that point in his career even if he was on a major league contract. No one wanted him till Feb 21 last season. I’m a fan of the guy. I’m do keep up. On Joe mama
My mis-read. I thought the minor league thing was about Bleier.
Well tbh not sure if Duvall was ever a minor league free agent. You win
The only regret about the more balanced schedule is that the Yankees won’t get to pound on this putrid red sox team quite as often.
2009….. 2009….. granted doesn’t have the same ring as 1918 but I can live with it….
maybe you can, but during the 20th century, millions of Red Sox fans were born and died without ever witnessing a Red Sox championship.
Live with that too.
Whenever Yankees fans insult another team it boomerangs into a biting insult of the Yankees. Whenever a Yankees fan makes a trade proposal it boomerangs into a Clint Frasier/Miguel Andujar insult. And in the end they make other Yankee fans look bad.
They never learn.
Don’t insult other teams. Don’t make trade proposals. It’s that simple.
wait so nobody ever insults the Yankees….oh my god are you kidding me.
It’s not insulting, it’s razzing, that’s what baseball fans do.
I can see Baseball is not your thing, is it?
But with Utah in your name I am not surprised.
Yankee forever… I live in Chicago…. See cubs/ white Sox… I lived thru everything the Yankees tortured me with and after 86 I like millions of other Redsox fans were immune to 2003… I really hate.. sorry extremely dislike the Yankees but the respect for guys like chamblis/ Munson/ jeter/ mo/ posada is and was always there… not sure when you became a Yankees fan but I hope you were at least 12-15 years old when they had their run in late nineties.. Joe also class act… it’s the Yankee fans who are 20 something and talk the smack.. sorry for them I talk the smack… not offended at all but keep shots at team I guess…
I go back to watching Mantle play, so I have seen my share of baseball and in all that time have never taken it so seriously that someone taking shots at the Yankees would upset my bowel movement.
We are passive fans, nothing we do or say will have any outcome on the game, so what’s left is to have fun with each other, which is what I do.
Some fans get it a play along and we all have fun and some dont and get bent out of shape, that is their problem, not mine.
Yankeesforever – Hahaha wow, do you kick injured dogs too?
A quick accounting says BOSTON 4 RINGS this Century which is nearly 1/4 over and NYYs 1 RING.
I’m glad you made your comment so Red Sox fans can get more pissed at the bad job Bloom has done. It is embarrassing and it’s not easily reversed. He is the 2nd biggest curse that this franchise has had.
To gloat without winning anything, though, is lame. Come back and throw some crap our way when you’ve actually won a ring. I’m sure you’ve noticed that the basis of NY Yankee bragging dates back sixty years to the era from the acquisition of Babe Ruth to 1964. During those years your team bought their way to 29 world series and won 20 of them. Considering how much more money you spent than the competition winning 20/29 doesn’t seem that impressive.
Since then, however, the Yankee empire has been no great shakes. You’ve still spent an insane amount of money beyond all other teams but your success rate has fallen off considerably. Since 1964 the Yankees are 7-4 in World Series and they haven’t won since 2009 despite the huge financial advantage. The Yankees have average $20MM more per year on payroll than the Red Sox over the last 30 years and that’s a large number if you consider how many of those 30 years saw top payrolls under $120MM. A $20MM advantage back then was huge!!
Did I mention that Boston is 4-0 in World Series during the last 19 years while the Yankees are 1.- 2 in World Series in the last 22 years?
Fans can’t turn back the clock and keep DD and never hear the name Bloom so the disaster that has happened is something we all have to live with. The damage is done and it’s severe. It will take years to recover so make fun of us now because that won’t last forever. What will last forever is our ability to make fun of the fact that you spend so much more than others and can’t seem to win a ring.
The Yankee dynasty died in 1962. The Red Sox dynasty died in 2018. Recent history is far more relevant when it comes to RINGS!!
well yeah, you have no history that’s why Sox fans have always been tortured by ours.
Yet Millions of Red Sox fans went to their grave never seeing a Red Sox championship, probably cursing the team with their last breath and that is a part of your history that you cant wite-out no matter how hard bottles you use.
No Yankee fan will ever have to live with the indignity of saying. “If only Grandpa had lived long enough to see the championship”
Yankee for…. Really think about that grandpa statement…. True as it is , they probably were in a war/ lived thru depression and well a heck of a lot more than the Red Sox not winning a championship… some how I believe they were probably okay with everything else they survived…..
Bloom… I will say you do your homework… I understand your frustration but for me personally I’m so overwhelmed/ overjoyed for the past 20 year’s… it is hard for me to be upset about the past few years… don’t get me wrong I still want my beloved Redsox to kick everyone’s axx but the recent success has definitely ( again past 20and 2018) taken the sting away… I have my ways snd vowed never to take a Redsox fan seriously if he solely blamed Buckner ( as a cubs fan who blames bartman) I’m not as smart as these guys who run teams… hell I wanted to trade Lester and elsbury for Santana back in the day and was totally pissed on the return for Nomar… who knew… but I will say I get total satisfaction on knocking Yankees out of playoffs!!! When they say we have made the playoffs such and such years in a row I smile because it resulted in in zero championships… sort of like Redsox fans in 86/88/90….. !! Hypocrisy at its best… and oh still no Hemingway… actually swagger the Jimmy Johnson story as now…lol
Yankeesforever – My father is one of the people you are referring to. He lived from 1923 to 2003. It was tough to see them win a little over a year after he passed but he wasn’t tormented by the lack of rings, he never saw the team win but he lived a good life. He played ball and went to spring training with the Boston Braves, pitched to Ernie Lombardi, Paul Waner and Lloyd Waner during spring training and when WW II broke out he played on the Army Air Corp baseball team in Europe. Never saw the enemy, made tons of friends and had lots of great stories to pass on.
I’m guessing that’s a hell of a lot more baseball than you got to enjoy. Is it better to play than to watch your favorite team win a world series. I say yes it is. I’ve seen 4 rings won by Boston and there is only one that compares with playing baseball at elite levels in college or high school, the 2004 World Series. Otherwise, I’ll take playing a college game, a national select tournament for High School players or even a semi-pro game over watching a world series win. But that’s me. I love baseball.
So despite never seeing a ring ceremony or Duck Boat parade for the Red Sox my father had a great life. I’m guessing many, many other Boston fans that never saw them win a ring had very fulfilling lives too. Only a jackass would write what you wrote.
Troll your own site. You aren’t welcome here. You are very fortunate this is anonymous so there are no repercussions for your rudeness.
Bloom … as usual nice job… even though pops wasn’t a Redsox fan ( Cubs..same boat even worse) men of that era faced way more to worry about then some bambino or goat.. I remember him taking me and older brother to Wrigley…at 9am to find parking!!!lol a thermos of lemonade and a few ham sandwiches…very cool writing of your dad pitching to Warner brothers… pops told me about mo berg…. His respect for all who served was deep…. You are so correct on playing vs rooting… from sun up to sun down we played baseball/ football/ basketball.. one of my friends would always tell us how he beat Bob Kipper 1-0 in a HS sectional game( Bob went on to pitch for pirates I think late 80”s early 90”s and a few other teams) as for our dad’s… yeah it would have been nice but I’m pretty sure my dad was not so concerned about cubs let alone another team in any sport upset him for not winning a game let alone a championship….
oimtiant – Just curious, where in the Chicago area did you grow up? I lived there most of my life and based on your comments we had many similar experiences with local baseball. I was lucky enough to be at the game when Ernie hit #500 so I enjoyed your recollection that you just shared!!
I played HS ball in the north suburbs when Luzinski was the big HS player and then later against Mike Boddicker in Legion Ball and College. Great times, great team mates and so much fun to see both my boys get similar opportunities in the their baseball careers.
Bloom… wow is my only word… the Bull!!! And boddicker!!! I grew up in Cicero and in no way come close to that resume… played up to Hs but as stated my buddy was pretty good .. ( in HS that is) remember going to watch another friend who played for triton jr college… a short fire plug of a kid also was playing with him… I’m thinking that kid is pudgy and can’t be a player…. The player.. Kirby Puckett… again.. I would not make a good GM!!! I remembered watching Ernie hit his 500th… wgn was moving camera in and out as brickhouse went crazy.. so yeah growing up a Redsox fan from Chicago in early/mid 70”s…( could get away with it cubs 1912 believe and 1917 W Sox)lol bill madlock favorite cub growing up( 3b as I was) last thing… didn’t Redsox trade schilling in bodicker trade???
Oimtiant – Boddicker was at the end of his prime years by 88 when he was traded to Boston for Schilling and Brady Anderson. Mike pitched like I remembered him through his 26 year old season. My big memory of him was his first curve ball to me. He had a very sharp breaking curve ball and the shocker was I could hear it spin! After that pitch I stayed on fastballs the rest of the game. Didn’t get any hits but didn’t strike out.
Bull went to ND prep school with a cousin of mine so I got to watch him play. Back then the 11th pick in the draft for a HS kid from Chicago was big news.
When I was 14 I played on a Babe Ruth League all-star team that faced Cicero in the state tournament. We played at their field and the thing I remember most about the loss was your players had full mustaches and beards and most of our guys had no hair on their face!!! We asked to see birth certificates to validate ages!! Some even smoked at the game but none drank beer. Funny the things you remember about your playing days!
Now WEEI is talking about Ohtani possibly coming to the Red Sox bevies he was visiting a Nike Facility. Come on. The only way you are going to get him is if you get rid of Dumpster Diving Bargain Basement Chaim Bloom. First of all if he is in California, it is a lot easier to get to his homeland Japan to visit than Boston. This is the story to give Boston fans hope because of how bad the team Bloom assembled this year is going to be. This team is thrown together with hope and duct tape hoping to compete. Bloom has lost a star in Bogaerts and picked up inferior players, minor league players, and plans on moving outfielders in to play shortstop, depend on injured players like Arroyo and Modesi to carry third team forward. This is going to be a long season with this team and Bloom at the helm. Hopefully if we get one thing it is the end of Chaim Bloom’s reign of management in Boston.