The Orioles have been mired in a lengthy rebuild for a number of years now, but as the team shows signs of a return to competitiveness there come the inevitable questions about how far a team is willing to bump payroll to maximize their window.
In 2022, the team’s opening day payroll was the lowest in all of baseball, the fourth straight year it ranked in the bottom five in the league, according to Cot’s Baseball. Of course, Baltimore was deep in a rebuild during that time and not focused on adding significant contracts. Yet as the team returns to relevance on the heels of an 83-79 2022 season, O’s fans would rightfully hope the team would be prepared to bump payroll to supplement their exciting young core.
“I’d love to be sitting in New York with $300 million payrolls. You’ve got to build it like any small, medium or large business. It’s cyclical, and then you hope that you can continue to feed that cycle, and I think we will be able to [return to the top half of the league],” Orioles CEO and chairman John Angelos said on 105.7 The Fan (via the Baltimore Sun).
History would suggest that the Orioles will do just that. Between 2011-18 the team regularly sat in the middle-to-upper part of the league in terms of payroll, a period in which the team made three playoff appearances out of the competitive AL East. That saw Opening Day payroll rise as high as $164MM in 2017, around four times as high as their Opening Day figure last season.
The team certainly has room to add payroll, yet it’s been a largely quiet winter for Baltimore. They’ve signed veteran starter Kyle Gibson to a one-year, $10MM deal, infielder Adam Frazier for $8MM and reliever Mychal Givens for $5MM. Those modest additions leave them on track for a 2023 payroll of $63MM, according to Fangraphs, that would have it on track to be the second lowest in baseball, per Cot’s.
Orioles fans would have every right to be a bit frustrated by that. GM Mike Elias says the team is still pursuing upgrades and would like to add another starter, according to the Baltimore Sun.
“We had some very close opportunities where it just went in a different direction,” Elias said. “We’ve been talking to everybody, there’s nothing imminent as of this afternoon, but that changes with sort of one text, one phone call sometimes. We really like our team. We see areas where we can get better, and we’re trying to pursue those players, but there’s competition out there.”
With the free agent market largely thinned out, it does appear that the trade market would be Baltimore’s avenue to any upgrades. The Orioles have one of the top farm systems in all of baseball, including eight players on Baseball America’s recently released Top 100 list, so do have a number of prospects that could be used to get a deal done. Of course, a number of those players will be viewed as long term building blocks in Baltimore, but the team could tap into their prospect wealth to put themselves in a better position to compete in 2023.
Since he is the one that signs the checks, I don’t think hope is necessary…just a pen.
Coincidentally, this statement comes after all the decent FAs are off the board …..
Oh-tan-i
Keep it real man. This isn’t Fantasy Baseball.
Brilliantly stated
And listening to this guy ‘poor mouth’ is eye rolling. With so much young talent ready to take the next step, now is when he should’ve added a couple of premiere FAs.
Clip – It does make one wonder why they didn’t spend this offseason, considering they have a ton of payroll flexibility and they had a darn good season last year with a core of young talent that’s still intact.
Spend on who? Players aren’t team agnostic items being auctioned off to the highest bidder. Why the hell would anyone turn down offers from New York, Philly, LA, etc to come play in effing Baltimore for anything less then a massive overpay? There’s a scarce amount of good free agents and every big market, big budget playoff team from 2022 was in on them. That’s why the O’s didn’t sign anyone. Jameson Taillon for example. It took $19 mil a year for him to sign in Philly. He’s like a 4 starter. What would his number have been for Baltimore? $22 mil a year? Is that a good idea for the Orioles? O’s need to keep investing in their farm and spend money to retain their young talent first before overpaying mediocre free agents – who won’t actually want to come here once the team is winning again consistently anyway
*until the team
clade… I 100% agree with that. This was not the year to go out and overpay for talent that “might” help. Get your young core in place, sign them to team AND player friendly deals, and then go shopping for a couple of FA you KNOW will help the team. I’m hoping the Reds follow this path in a few years!
Taillon went to the Cubs not the Phillies, and it was $17 not $19
Lol I was about to say the same thing. Oops
Taillon signed with the Cubs, not the Phillies.
clade – You claim all the best free agents went to large market teams.
Well here’s the market size rankings of teams that just signed Top Twenty free agents:
13 Blue Jays
14 Giants (2 free agents)
15 Astros
18 Twins
19 Cardinals
21 Indians
26 Padres
That’s SIX elite free agents signed by mid-market teams and TWO elite free agents signed by small-market teams.
Stop making excuses for Orioles ownership, if anything they should have been even more motivated to spend because the nearby large-market Nats are in a non-compete stretch right now and the O’s could easily win over fans from the Nats’ territory if Orioles ownership truly wanted to contend now.
Here’s my sources:
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/mlb-trade-rumors-top-50…
bleacherreport.com/articles/961412-mlb-power-ranki…
It looks like the O’s are wasting a full year of Adley Rutschman by not spending. Or are a lot of good players coming up from the minors this year?
Yes a lot of good new players should be coming up from the minors this year – but not so much in the way of pitching
Good point Clip.
People have to want to sign there.
How do you know they won’t sign in Baltimore and it’s not the team owner crying poor like a lot of the teams do with this built in small market bs excuse to not truly compete.These teams are all worth billions and you constantly hear how much money each team gets from these tv contracts etc, yet so many cry poor.It’s ridiculous and fans believing it is even more ridiculous..
If only it was as simple as Money = Talent.= Winning.
Chris Sale? Chris Davis? Stephan Strasburg? Giancarlo Stanton? Bobby Bonilla? Fernando Tatis?
Shall I keep going?
Yes it’s not simple,you can’t buy a world series ring but one thing’s for sure the cheap teams prevent their team from at least a chance of being a world series champ.Lot of these owners don’t really try, Some throw their fans a bone every 30 years+ or so,And if they do win,KC for example they suck again for another 30 years or more.
Surprised he would even talk about the payroll this close to Martin Luther King day..if u don’t get that reference look it up..that guy is an A1 dbag in my book.
What does proximity to MLK day have to do here? It’s a week later.
Grom – I don’t get the reference either, and I’m usually good at catching that kind of stuff.
So Angelos is not known to make himself available that often to field questions from anyone outside of Angelos owned MASN. He did a press conference on MLK day about donation he did and when a reporter used that opportunity to ask him a Orioles question he chewed out the reporter because how dare he ask questions about the Orioles on MLK day.
Exactly.
He gave a very long and candid radio interview with 105.7 radio personalities about 2 months ago. I was impressed. I’m officially drinking the orange Kool-aid. (105.7 is not the Os flagship station. IE not a part of MASN)
Also, at the MLK presser, yes, he got hot. BUT, he said he would be available to the media to address their team related questions at another time. Kind of an open ended statement … for sure. Curious to see if he follows through.
105.7 although not officially part of the Orioles they still don’t ask him serious questions. They didn’t ask about his outburst, the lease, potentially selling of the franchise or MASN dispute. Just meh. Although I still root for the Orioles, I don’t wear my orange tint glasses when it involves the Angelos family
Did we hear the same interview? He said two critical things in the 105.7 interview. He will spend money and he will not meddle in Elias’s decision making. The non meddling part is the key which was his dad’s downfall. John is the closest thing we’ve had to a Jerold Hoffberger type ownership since, well, Jerold Hoffberger.
He keeps saying they will spend money, and they keep not spending money. I’m not believing it until I actually see them sign a free agent to at least a 3 year deal.
Well. for your sake and Orioles fans i hope he becomes a great owner.I’m not an Orioles fan but besides rooting for my team i like seeing the whole league competitive.This whole tanking epidemic is really bad for baseball.Your team and mine haven’t won since back to back years in 1983,1984 and it’s even worse for Orioles since they haven’t sniffed World Series since, 🙁
I don’t know anything about this Orioles owner but i won’t doubt what your saying since you probably know about stuff he’s done & said.I’m not impressed by lot of the MLB Owners who don’t seem to be involved with the game for the right reasons.So many fans in lots of cities should be mad as hell their teams don’t compete or if they do it’s very brief.
Signing Ohtani will do it
2 problems:
1.The O’s are cheap (Ohtani will likely get the biggest contract in history); and,
2.Ohtani is going to a premiere market, and that ain’t Baltimore
Yes, he and Trout have how many rings?
Do you think that will be discussed, even once, in his FA negotiations?
Arnold, that’s just proof that even two of the best players in baseball need a lot of help to win a title.
It’s not their fault they can’t do it alone.
Am I the only one that thinks doubling the payroll is a significant increase?
Depends on where you start from. Oakland doubling its payroll would still leave them in the bottom 5 in the league. Whereas a team in the middle of the pack doubling its payroll would indeed be significant.
Since it was the lowest in all of baseball at the start of last year and bottom five for the last 4?… I’d say that’s the least he could do.
we went from $30M last year to $60M this year. double again next year has us at $120M double again has us at the Luxury tax in 2025
The question is- Will they do it? 120 is middle of the pack.
Is that what he’s doing? What’s their payroll for this year?
Hopes?
I keep hearing how this is one of the best ran organizations in mlb. But last in payroll in 2022 and bottom 5 the past few years. Sounds like an organization that tanks for top draft choices every year. Don’t they draw fans? No TV revenue money? Why is their spending always near the bottom?
It isn’t. Did you miss the part where they were in the middle to upper parts of payroll from 2011-2018?
Not “always”. As the article said “Between 2011-18 the team regularly sat in the middle-to-upper part of the league in terms of payroll,”…
They did tank for draft spots…they also ran high payrolls. Its not always the same brush.
Honestly, it’s an embarrassment to MLB since they also control the vast majority of the Washington Nationals TV revenue through the nightmare MASN debacle.
The disputed money is in escrow. Orioles nor Nationals can touch it until a settlement is reached.
The dispute over MASN is only related to the media rights fees paid. Not MASN’s profits or the fact that the Orioles are entitled to be paid the same media rights fees as the Nationals, but somehow receive disparate treatment for revenue sharing. In other words, the Orioles get the same rights fees as the Nationals when dividing the money that comes in, but then MLB gives additional benefits to Baltimore on account of it’s “small market”. Even if the disputed funds are in escrow, it doesn’t change that the Orioles are entitled to the vast majority of the Nats’ TV revenue through the ownership of MASN which Angelos runs like a slumlord. No investment, terrible production quality. Much like the Orioles themselves. I’m glad that Elias has done well by O’s fans, but it’s absurd that the Orioles are treated like a small market team when MLB has given them a huge boon.
The MASN is SUPPOSED to be unfair on Nationals $$. Not a flaw, it’s designed that way.
That’s called payment for taking over half of the Orioles fanbase/territory.
…and fun fact, the Orioles owner Peter Angelos wrote the MASN deal. MLB/Nationals ownership just signed it.
If only other people could understand that fact! MASN and the way the entire things was set up and designed was essentially a concession for allowing the Expos to move to DC, which was, at the time and for a long time, Orioles “territory.”
All parties signed on and now not all parties want to continue fulfilling the obligations since they got what they wanted and settled down in DC.
Where did anyone say that the MASN deal needed to be fair to the Nationals? My complaint was only that Baltimore claims a big market when it suits them and then pretends like they’re a small market team. Either you own the DC media market or don’t.
To the extent that the MASN deal is unfair to the Nats, it’s only the Orioles/Angelos refusal to honor the terms and renegotiate in good faith every five years AS REQUIRED BY THE DEAL. The Orioles continue to lose on substance at every turn over a decade of litigation, but the casual Orioles fan still pretends like they’ve been abused somehow by the crooked MLB. The Orioles paid nothing to the Senators when they moved to Baltimore. If MLB wanted some revenge on Angelos, they could simply make the Orioles ineligible for revenue sharing given that they are in a huge media market and unlike every other team in the league are entitled to the media rights of another team.
Of course, the fans are the real losers in the situation. MASN is poorly run, there’s no legal streaming option, and the Orioles have mostly pocketed the increased revenue. The Orioles attendance in the early days of the Nats remained similar years before. The attendance bombed because they weren’t relevant for a decade while the payroll stagnated.
The deal said every 5 years, the Nationals would get an increase of revanue based on escalating persentags (5-10%, 10-15%, etc).
At the very first negotiating window, the Nationals wanted a % larger than contractually allowed. Orioles said, read your contract, Nationals said see you in court.
Very first opportunity, Nationals tried to get out of MASN terms. Talk about Bad Faith. First opportunity, Nats sue.
Orioles then refuse to negotiate any of the rest of the 5 year periods, until the initial period can be settled. (After all, if the first rate increase is settled in the Nationals favor…all the other persentags will increase as well. So the money is in escrow until resolved).
And yes, MLB has acted time and again in the Nationals favor….which is exactly why the Binding Arbitration was vacated, because, according to the Judges opinion, MLB/arbitration panal was biased against the Orioles.
Wanna know how many times a mutual agreed to Bidding Arbitration agreement is broken? It’s a 1 in 100 chance.
Federal judge’s opinion that MLB was biased against Orioles.
Facts.
{Mic drop}
I didn’t realize we had gotten to the just making stuff up phase of the discussion. The MASN contract has an escalation clause for the level of the Nats ownership in that trash heap, but that’s not the point at issue.
The MASN contract does not contain a cap on the rights fees increase. If it did, this matter would have long since been concluded. The Orioles only victory in this dispute has been complaining that the Nats used a law firm that MLB also used. Then the Orioles claimed that the process they designated, the Revenue Sharing Committee, was biased against them, because the Nats hired, not surprisingly, a law firm that had many dealings with this kind of dispute. Nevermind, that the same corrupt process was how the Orioles won the rights in the first place. The Courts agreed on that the process was bad, but not the result. The trial court awarded over $100M. Given that the Orioles offered around $35M per year and the MLB said $60M was appropriate, that’s a difference of $25M times 4 years.
So for whatever joy it brings your heart that a judge said MLB was biased against the Orioles (not the actual legal standard), the same court arrived at largely the same number.
And none of that has anything to do with the Orioles continually crying poorhouse while controlling the media rights to the 9th largest market in the country in addition to their own 28th largest market.
The MASN deal was a mistake for MLB, but having made it, the League ought to expect more from the team in terms of actually developing a business rather than the rent-seeking shakedown that we have all watched the last 15 years.
You probably are hearing that they are one of the best run organizations.
You seem unaware that when the bottom fell out in 2018, the former GM gutted the MLB roster via trades. When the new GM took over in 2019, they focused on building the talent pool at the minor league level through the Rule 4 draft and international signings. They have begun to reap the rewards of that rebuild.
Ugh, the MASN deal. Very amateur hour here, but can one owner own both teams? The two teams are two different entities, each with there own budget, but under one bigger umbrella budget that dictates spending based on revenues brought in from all it’s business holdings. So year in year out, when the MA$N money is received by each team it goes in to the umbrella budget and then the owner/Bd of directors/trustees decide how it’s distributed back in to all it’s holdings.
The DC team was placed there by MLB as punishment against Angelos because he refused to participate in the league’s attempt to bust the MLBPA union. MLB privately and unethically lent money to the DC team to soothe DC owner Lerner’s complaints about the deal. The Nats used the law firm Proskauer Rose – which had represented MLB on 74 separate engagements through 2015! – to gain an illicit advantage over the arbitration process. MLB knew that it could recover the $25 million if the arbitration panel issued an award in the Nationals’ favor settling telecast rights high enough to cover the amount it gave the team.
MLB has conspired against Baltimore at every turn of this corrupt debacle. Eff MLB and the Nats, even if Angelos is no saint.
@ Ra,
You right on it, and I’m right there with you.
The origin part is a little off– MLB is stuard of Expos/Nationals. DC wants a team. MLB needs Peter Angelos to allow it, and Peter puts the deal on the table that he would sign. Reports at the time said MLB decided not negotiate the MASN deal, fearing the timeline of a protracted battle w/ Angelos.
Angelos got more than a pound of flesh in the MASN deal. Because he’s a boss.
I think the MLBPA (a decade before MASN) thing had nothing to do MASN.
But loosing the All-Star game, that was MLB being a #@&!*.
You may want to look a little deeper into the machinations of what went on in Montreal and the horsetrading that led to MLB’s placement of the team in DC. MLB didn’t need Angelos to agree to placing the team there. The Orioles only controlled the TV market, which of course has become the prime plum in recent decades. But they still could have placed the team in DC to sabotage the Orioles either way.
I appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
I think they can be good soon because of some of their prospects, but a lot of last season was a fluke. It’s not often you see starting pitchers cut their ERA’s from 8 to under 4, I am exaggerating just a ;bit but that’s pretty much what happened with many of their guys, and they don’t have amazing stuff either. At a certain point you have to move forward with what you have and end the rebuild, GM is lucky that ownership is giving him such a long leash to tank excessively.
Do you think enlarging Lf played any role in pitchers era?Just curious.
Orioles’ road ERAs:
2021 5.69
2022 4.24
It’s obviously not just about the wall
They didn’t “tank” last year. Nearly made the playoffs.
You got it backwards: ownership is fortunate that Mike and Sig are staying.
Sounds like Cheap,Cheap Cheap to me.
So many people do not know that the Orioles payroll was $167 Million in 2017.
What is the sense in wasting millions on free agents during a teardown and rebuild? To lose 100 games instead of 105?
I don’t expect the Os having a payroll like the dodgers or Mets but they should definitely have a payroll in the 15-20th range in mlb (120-150 mil last year).the Os had a 160 mil payroll in 2016 so they definitely should be able to get back at least to 140 or so long term, maybe not 2023 but in 3-4 years when some of the young guys hit arbitration
I’m surprised the Orioles don’t sign Bauer. They can pay him league minimum, he does well they can trade him away and if he acts up they can straight up cut him
Domingo, your expectation is probable. Ownership and front office both anticipate payroll rising as the team’s top talent enters arbitration. Despite the limited free agent signings this year, it is likely there will be more spending on that front in the upcoming years.
Not sure Bauer would sign with the Orioles. But he would be a better match for the Yanks. I’d rather the young, inexperienced Orioles not have to worry about the circus Bauer would create. Let him blend into the NY cesspool.
Be a media and PR disaster. And he isn’t that great to begin with, and now he hasn’t pitched for 2 years.
The Os have so far executed the rebuild perfectly. The next step is increasing payroll and supplementing the roster with quality free agents and signing the good players to extensions. It’s still 1 season early. By next season I expect them to be in full go mode
Agreed. Everyone in 2022 wants things today. The Orioles play in the toughest division in baseball. Mike elias knows when he’s going to start his contention window. They have so many kids to bring up this year that the fans won’t be upset if they struggle to make the wild card. Another strong draft in June and the Orioles are going to shove for the rest of the 2020’s.
Yes, GoRav, rushing the rebuild can backfire. Just look at what happened to the Tigers and Marlins last year. Spending too much too fast on players coming off good platform seasons but have otherwise had inconsistent careers can set your team way back!
How have the Tigers rushed the rebuild it’s 7 or 8 years my team has been rebuilding so far.The way it’s going it might be 10 years,
Yes, “1 season early”, but not by design. FO can’t get too crazy pursuing SP outside of the club, whether by FA or trade, until they see what they have in Hall and Rodriguez. Both were supposed to be up in 22 but injuries got in the way. Hall saw some time, Rodriquez none. Interested to see what transpires with them early season and how it will impact the 8/2 trade deadline.
I also think Elias was not prepared for how expensive free agency was going to be this off season. I really believe he wanted to bring in a 2nd tier starter but found the market to be too pricey. Still a shot at Wacha
Yes, pricey and probably still so. Agree about Wacha. The longer he’s out their the better the chance he can be signed to a one-year? Personally, can’t see Elias offering a multi year.
I’d be a little leary of Wacha.Is his 2022 season a reflection of his talent or some mediocre years prior,
When was the last time a $300M team won a WS?
Just develop a few of your top picks you get EVERY. YEAR. and you won’t need that $300M to keep your job.
Never, because there hasn’t ever been a team with a $300M payroll.
top – Not until this year, as the Mets sit at $329M right now.
Dodgers had it last year lol
Yes, and you can’t win a WS before games are played.
And thankfully they didn’t make it to Series,One of the hilites of the postseason.
“Largely quiet”…….epic phrase.
He can say whatever he wants to say. This guy has pocketed a fortune the past several years under the guise of a total rebuild putting no quality products on the field until 2022. They have done almost nothing this off season just like I figured back in October. Sticking to the plan and having faith in what they are doing. Ok sounds great. Keep telling the fans to have patience and they will spend when the time comes. I’d like to see the Orioles do well for the fans sake but these owners aren’t about that. It’s the bottom line that matters and don’t think otherwise.
the bottom line is more than just results at the major league level, as their farm has done nothing but produce shiny prospects while the major league team and coaching staff rounds into form around homegrown stars(ruschtmann, we will see much more of their other top prospects next year), and successfully reclaimed depth pieces(mateo, most of their pitching staff). but everyone in that building knows that they need to be patient about adding to the team. give the team this season as opportunity for these young guys and wherever you find depth, deal from it to add pitching, and more geniunely supplement the next competitive roster next offseason when it begins to take more of a shape than just adley
I upvoted but Gunnar is a bigger impact player than Adley. Plus they already promoted Stowers and GROD will start the year in the rotation. There is already a lot more than “just Adley.”
I agree giving prospects the chance they deserve is a great idea but you totally missed my point. This team will never be the successful franchise some fans believe it will be mostly because the owners won’t spend the necessary cash to make it happen. Ever. They will probably sell this franchise in the foreseeable future.
The owners spent $164 Million on payroll in 2017. That was at the end of the franchise’s success as MLB’s winningest team from 2012 through 2016. History does not support your contention that they will not increase payroll again to return the team to being a successful franchise. Hell, they have enough talent right now to reach the playoffs and a ton more top talent knocking on the door.
“Ever” is an awfully long time. And not something to count on.
But it is true that the team could be sold. Though I would not bet on “probably.”
Whenever I bring up Orioles management/ownership someone always mentions 2012-2017. I never mentioned those years. They are gone. That won’t happen again until a major change is made at the top. I’m talking about now. All the talk earlier this off-season from Orioles fans was about upgrading. Even the GM mentioned they would add this winter. I said they wouldn’t and they won’t for the foreseeable future. Maybe some little transactions here and there or a middle of the pack free agent signing. I’m saying don’t hold your breath waiting for them to do anything of note. Yeah waiting on the kids to develop is a good idea but it should be balanced with quality major leaguers and a sustainable decent product on the field. Major investment won’t happen.
@ retired/
Who should the Orioles have acquired in free agency?
The Tigers spent a bunch last off-season. Put vets w/ their young core, as your suggesting…
There isn’t one specific player. I thought I made this clear but I guess I wasn’t clear enough. Once again I will say these guys are not going to spend money on this team. They have raked in millions the past several years and it will be difficult for them to start spending like they should. They probably are going to sell the team in the near future. Pocketing millions isn’t easy to give up.
I guess we shall see then.
Historically speaking, that has not been true with the Angelos run Orioles.
Great minds think alike :)It’s great seeing another fan not buying the B.S. lot of owners feed fans who badly want to win.
I kinda hope we try to sign Trevor Bauer. I think with having to pay him league min can keep that payroll low like they like
Oh good lord. Must be a slow day in MLBTR.
Next headline will be “Barry Bonds is better than Babe Ruth” (phone lines/comments section now open!!)
It is a slow news time. Would you rather read nothing?
I hope to someday compete, but it’s a cyclical thing, like Haley’s comet
I almost spit out my coffee with that one.
My prayer is that Orioles compete some time before Haley’s Comet returns in 2061.
I’m hoping my Tigers rebuild is over by 2061 too.Oh the good old days when we had an owner as passionate as the fans,
Smart payroll allocation (and timing) is an art form…. and Elias came from Houston who is doing it the best. This will take care of itself, b/c if half the vaunted guys appear to be for real, he’ll pitch to the boss to extend those they are confident will be self-motivated/maintain competitive edge after locking in first fortune. Pitching will be the biggest key if they build on momentum early. They can trade for an elite starter on a non-contending team to kickstart contending in a “deep pockets” division later.
Well, you can’t do that by Suckling the Revenue Sharing until, you can Suckle no more!!!!
SMH
Last year, Baltimore was 23rd in attendance with 17,543 per game.
Oakland was last at 9,973. Miami was at 11,203. Minnesota was double at 22,514 in what was the warmest local summers on record.
I’m a diehard Phillies fan, but with that said- I live in Baltimore. I was rooting for the O’s to make the wildcard. They didn’t obviously, BUT I think the biggest disappointment is they didn’t do anything to really build on that amazing season.
I was flabbergasted that they traded Mancini while sitting a a couple games out of the wildcard spot. Who knows when they will get another shot to make a run at the postseason.
Mancini would be a hindrance to the Orioles progress. They are far better off without him.
I’m sorry but Angeles has it backwards. The goal is not and should not be to increase payroll. The goal should be to put a more competitive team on the field. If one has to increase payroll to do it, fine, increase payroll. If one can do it without increasing payroll, then it is even better. (Baseball is a business after all.). The goal is to put an entertaining product on the field and be competitive, not to spend money for the sake of spending money.
Sitting here looking at the three plus feet of snow that has fallen in the last week thinking that in just a little over a month from now, I’ll drive down to spring training games.
I don’t think that is what John Angelos was communicating regarding payroll. The comment was directly about competitiveness. It would be obtuse to believe that the teams that win do not sign free agents and only win with their own prospects. That’s not how the Astros did it nor is it the approach Tampa takes.
Glad i don’t live there,No snow since before Christmas here in Ontario Canada.
Don’t know why you found it necessary to make such a comment.
Now shall everyone else say we are glad not to be living in Ontario? That would be childish, right?
I was just trying to make point i hate snow please don’t read something else into my comment jee wizz
Unfortunately, no snow for us yet this year. Couple of possibilities for snow in the 10-day forecast, but not real snow, just mixed precipitation.
Chris Davis is a free agent!
Kinda late in the off-season to add significant talent. Hoping to add payroll sounds as if he has no direct control. This was the time to begin adding, real, long term talent to the youth on the roster. If the team doesn’t take a step forward in the standings, only the most rabid fans will still buy into the plan.
Add a starter? Will that be Bauer or Wacha? Any of the remaining options are just pure crap.
Good question. I think they will end up signing Wacha.
As for higher payroll, I’ll believe it when I see it. The O’s have a promising young core but lack front-line starting pitching and need another middle-of-the-order bat. This would have been a good offseason to open the checkbook to add a couple of elite pieces to get the team over the hump. Failing that, they could try to lock up some of their best young players like Rustchman to ong-term extensions. Instead they’ve done nothing but be cheap. They are likely to stagnate in 2023 and then that will be the excuse next off-season for doing nothing again. The club will be stuck in an endless self-fulfilling prophecy of mediocrity while the Angelos family continues raking in big profits.
Three Run Homer — I agree about locking up youth, but Adley is represented by Boras. That’s a tall order for a early deal.
But there are lots of youth on the way, and honestly, Gunner might be the guy to target (seeing how 2023 goes), since he’s younger than Adley.
Grayson, Holiday, Cowser, and like 6 others all represent early deal type players maybe…
but they gotta get to MLB first and put in work.
Don’t tell us what you hope. If you won’t sign a marquee free agent, lock up Rutschman and Henderson. Or sell to a minority owner with a transition plan.
The smart move is lock up a couple of superstars. I would take a risk on a core group around Adley. He’s a tremendous leader. I would pull him into the plans and get his vibe on the guys he’s played with through the minors.
He would love to be sitting on a 300 million payroll?? This is from an owner with the lowest payroll in the league. This ownership is for the birds…
Mr. Elias is doing it correctly and is a pleasure to watch.
So he got more for the 2023 payroll budget. Maybe $20m? Pretty much a 1/3’rd increase.
Who do they sign for $20m in today’s environment? Michael Conforto got $18m for 2023 and a players option for another $18m. I like 5 of the Orioles OF’s better than him.
How about a starting pitcher?….
Mike Clevinger got $8m plus a $4m buyout after 2023 if the White Sox don’t reup him for 2024 for another $12m. He was hurt all 2022 and pitched lousy in 2021. Sean Manaea and Ross Stripling got 2/$25m. Zach Eflin coming off an injury got 3/$40m. Chris Bassitt would have been nice – he got 3/$63. Taijuan Walker got 4/$72m. Jameson Taillon would have been nice; but he’s 31 years-old and got 4/$68m.
The O’s are far better off with what they already have.
As I keep writing – they can save their money for an in-season trade or two where they take on a salary dump for a player(s) having a good season at his/their prorated remaining salary….and I expect that’s exactly what they’ll do.
You left out the part where angelos said we can’t increase payroll until people show up for games… well the people won’t show up for games if you won’t spend money on talent #selltheteam
The O’s weren’t going to make “significant” additions this off-season. That will likely come next offseason as they further identify their infield situation and what upcoming talent will stick or what talent they want to utilize for supplementing the team via trades and then dip into the FA market. Payroll will escalate, and a large amount should be from extensions similar to how Atlanta has been locking up young core players (at least that’s my hope).
Man my eyes hurt from rolling them so hard at the continual crying for lack of money. The best performers of the Orioles’ organization have to be lawyers and marketing, how else could they constantly convince the gullible that they do the best for the product on the field, not their pockets?
In 2012-18, let us not forget….
1. Nelson Cruz was a one year prove it deal. Then he proved it and the Orioles wouldn’t pay him for a 4th year when it was time to negotiate. He hit for 7 more years.
2. Davis was completely Peter Angelos’ bungling. NO OTHER team was after him, they were competing in a vacuum.
3. Mark Trumbo? One year deal and they caught his good year.
4. Ubaldo Jimenez was sold as THE ORIOLES ARE SPENDING ON PITCHING. However, at the time, he was probably the 5th or 6th pitcher available and it wasn’t top dollar. They were taken for a ride. And it was the ONLY time in the period they ponied up for any pitching.
5. Manny Machado? Home grown, they didn’t pay when it was time to pay. Jonathan Schoop? Home grown, they didn’t pay when it was time to pay. (Prepare for this folks, when its time to pay Adley or Gunnar!!!!)
6. Other starters were pieced together – as the team has been doing since about 2000 – on one year “prove it”, on the cheap (like out of the Korean league) and as throw-ins in trades. The hope was to get 5 or 6 good innings out of the starters and turn it over to the bullpen. In no year did they ever have a starting squad that a non-orange-colored-goggles fan would call “above average”.
Those 2012-16 winning times were a team thrown together with a “just good enough” offense, starting pitching that was barely adequate, a top notch bullpen, and Buck Showalter. It was a thin margin – house of cards – from a team building standpoint which fell apart quickly starting in May 2017.
But I will give them these:
1. Getting below market longer term deals for Jones and Markakis (2011?) which built that base for the period.
2. Having an eye for always finding bullpen talent (bullpen talent is cheap, so they probably spent a lot of time and effort on doing so). Kevin Gregg was a huge goggled exception but they still batted over 90% here.
3. Being able to continually sell the fans that the team was better than it was and that ownership planned to do whatever it could to maintain this. This is a two decade plus snow job.
Sorry, but until I see the team willing to build upon any success like they had in 2022, I will maintain my sarcastic “I’ll believe it when I see it” stance. That goes back to when Mike Young was the next Eddie Murray, Eric Bell was the next Jim Palmer, and Ken Gerhart was a 30/30 threat.