The Marlins made their long-awaited swap of a starting pitcher for a hitter this afternoon, sending Pablo López to Minnesota as part of a deal for Luis Arraez. Shortly after the trade was finalized, Miami general manager Kim Ng told reporters (including Craig Mish of SportsGrid) the newly-acquired infielder would take over as the primary second baseman. All-Star Jazz Chisholm Jr. will move from the keystone to center field.
It’s an interesting gambit for Miami, who’ll indirectly address their uncertain center field mix with today’s trade. Arraez has plenty of experience as a second baseman. He came up through the minors at the position and has logged more MLB innings there than at any other position. Over parts of four seasons, Arraez has spent a bit more than 1200 innings at the keystone.
Public defensive metrics have been mixed on his effectiveness. Defense Runs Saved rated him as nine runs below average in just 390 innings there as a rookie in 2019. Over the three seasons since then, DRS has pegged him as a slightly better than average second baseman. Statcast hasn’t been quite so optimistic. While it also feels he’s improved since a poor rookie showing — an estimated -7 runs in 2019 — it has rated him a little below par in two of the last three years.
Statcast has graded Arraez’s arm strength as slightly above-average for the position. Scouts have raised questions about his lateral quickness and athleticism since his time as a prospect, though. Minnesota pushed him primarily to first base work last season, starting him 31 times at the keystone compared to 60 times at first base (with a handful of games at third also mixed in). Of course, Minnesota’s signing of Carlos Correa solidified shortstop and ensured Jorge Polanco would play almost exclusively at second base. The Twins felt more comfortable with Polanco’s glove than Arraez’s up the middle, but it’s possible they’d have given the latter more second base time if they hadn’t landed one of the sport’s best shortstops.
It does come as a surprise to see Miami move Chisholm out of the middle infield. The 24-year-old (25 next month) established himself as the organization’s top position player with a .254/.325/.535 first half before suffering a season-ending stress fracture in his back. He also later underwent surgery to repair a meniscus tear in his right knee.
Signed as a shortstop prospect out of the Bahamas, Chisholm has only ever played the middle infield as a professional. He’ll take on the outfield on the fly during the upcoming season, with a month-plus of Spring Training action to acclimate to the new position.
With zero outfield experience, it’s impossible to know how Chisholm will take to the different reads and angles he’ll need to learn as an outfielder. Miami is clearly confident he’ll polish those aspects of his game quickly while relying on his elite athleticism in the interim. Chisholm was long credited by scouts with plus speed, and Statcast placed him in the league’s 94th percentile in that regard last season. He would’ve tied for 19th among 74 center fielders in sprint speed, so he certainly shouldn’t have issue covering the spacious outfield at Marlins Park from that perspective.
Prospect evaluators also praised Chisholm for an above-average throwing arm. He hasn’t shown that at the MLB level, though it’s not fair to compare his throwing speeds as a second baseman to those of center fielders. Chisholm obviously had quicker releases and much shorter distances to throw on the right side of the infield than he will from center field.
It’s a gamble for the Fish nonetheless, given the challenge of projecting how quickly he’ll develop the kind of reads needed to be a solid defensive center fielder. Yet it’s one Miami will take after missing out on their chances to directly upgrade the position from outside the organization. The free agent market at the position was mostly limited to depth players beyond Brandon Nimmo, Cody Bellinger and Kevin Kiermaier. Trades only offered a few more obvious candidates, with the Pirates sticking to a massive asking price on Bryan Reynolds and even reports of a somewhat significant ask from the Royals on a glove-first option like Michael A. Taylor.
Rather than run things back with players like Jesús Sánchez, Bryan De La Cruz and JJ Bleday — all of whom are better suited in the corner outfield — they’ll turn things over to Chisholm. Their younger outfielders will vie for a spot in the corner opposite Avisaíl García, while Arraez looks like to be joined by Joey Wendle, Jean Segura and Garrett Cooper in the primary infield.
Nothing quite like making a trade that potentially weakens yourselves at multiple positions. Well, at least they didn’t give up much… wait…
Arraez was challenged at 2B with shifting allowed. 2B’man will need to be more athletic with shifting restricted. Not sure Arraez will stick there.
Totally agree with your sentiment & hadn’t thought about it that way, but regardless, the Marlins got the better end of that trade. At least, as of today. They have a ton of pitching & play in a pitcher’s park anyway. Lopez was a very solid spare part.
Guess they choose Arraez over Dylan Carlson.
Smart move, Carlson sucks..
Cards were not offering Carlson for Lopez. Who the heck would they put in CF then? Carlson’s the only one they got, and he’s not really even a CF.
If they could have got him 1-1 it would have been a much better trade. Carlson is solid and offers 1 more year control over arraez and 2 over Lopez.
Typical Cards Fan, always hates for the player trying to be good but like he was playing through an injury so y’all could succeed. he’s young, has potential and if you don’t think then you obviously don’t know ball
Why
need pitching….capitaliza on a career season by a player who has no position
He was great at 2B last year
The Marlins said they would be playing Arraez at 2b
A classical move for Jazz to rock in CF, May end up singing the blues.
Curly got them jokes
Marlins still in play for Gurriel then. Chisholm in CF should be entertaining.
A Craig Biggio type move.
Robin Yount, Paul Molitor, Gary Sheffield, Tim Raines all come to mind as well.
Trea Turner played a nice center field for the Nationals early on, but was more valuable as a shortstop.
Only Yount worked in CF after a previous life in the infield. Raines was predominantly an outfielder his whole career, he only had 400-420 innings at 2B over 5 seasons. He also was mostly a left fielder. Molitor was a bad infielder. Sheffield was also a corner outfielder, and these were all guys who were average at best defensively in the infield. Jazz on the other hand is an elite defender, which is why this decision is different and horrible.
Dale Murphy
At least according to Baseball Reference, his best fielding position was CF.
Betcha he’s a helluva better CF than he was in an infielder. This is a smart move and probably has been in the works a long time. Reminds me of Mookie Betts back in the day.
I wonder if the shift ban influenced this decision.
Probably not, but It doesn’t make a lot of sense to move a guy with back issues into CF.
Easy to see this blowing up in Miami’s face.
@stevil
I think the Marlins organization is easily below average. But why do you think playing infield is any easier on the back?
Far more scenarios playing SS where you’re leaning over and putting stress on your back.
Stevil- AGREE but I think they are blowing smoke up our rear ends with Chisolm playing CF.
Well, he’s been a second baseman for Miami, not a shortstop. But center field specifically is physically demanding and trying to learn it on tbe fly will only make it more challenging.
Former center fielders, such as Mike Cameron, have talked a lot about back issues affecting outfielders (both in the field and at tbe plate).
I realize he’s mostly been a 2B but with the trade of Rojas and the acquisition of Arraez—if CF doesn’t work out, I would imagine he’s going back to SS.
I don’t think either MIF slot is any easier on the back than CF though.
Muscial chairs.
1B Cooper
2B Arraez
SS Wendle
3B Segura
CF Chisholm
RF Garcia
DH Soler
C Fortes
LF Sanchez
Not power in that lineup
Jorge Soler is a great power hitter when he’s hot. But I know what you mean, Soler has trouble staying healthy and coming off a disappointing year.
Lack of power bats in a park that plays that big is less worrisome than the outfield defense.
Maybe they’ll try to emulate the Royals back when Whitey Herzog managed them. Or the White Sox’s “small ball” to win the 2005 world series.
Garrett Cooper ranks in the 63rd percentile in average exit velocity and the 86th percentile in maximum exit velocity. Avisail Garcia had a higher max exit velo than Pete Alonso last year. He certainly has power, but needs to barrel the ball to exploit it.
Great info on Cooper……
If only he could stay healthy & not hit half his balls on the ground.
Doesn’t matter how you hard it if it’s a groundball. That’s not turning into power….
Kevin Pillar had higher max exit velo than Joey Votto. It might be a cool little stat but it doesn’t really mean a player is a good power hitter at all
Hence this observation, zballs: “He certainly has power, but needs to barrel the ball to exploit it.”
Power overrated, especially in Miami.
Still have some moves in them. Kim at SS?
Also Garcia isn’t bad as a power hitter either just a disapointing 2022.
Garcia’s career is filled with disappointing seasons.
Come to Seattle! You can play 2b or short here!
I second, third, and forth this motion. Based on the lopsided trade, we could probably give them Ty France, J.P. Crawford, Taylor Trammell, and Diego Castillo plus some money for Jazz Chisholm, Garrett Cooper, Jon Berti, and Khalil Watson.
The Marlins seem likely to overpay and Watson is like the 10 second car Paul Walker gives Vin Diesel in The Fast & The Furious. The Mariners would have to tow him to Seattle and do a lot of work on him, but he still could have a lot of value, if you know what to do with him. Neither Cooper, Berti, or Watson have a ton of trade value currently, but they all would be nice additions to the organization.
For the Marlins, France and Crawford would be upgrades over Cooper and Wendle. Wendle would become a younger less athletic utility guy to replace Berti. Trammell is going to hit and should give better defense, good baserunning, and aolid hitting. He was making big improvements before getting the hamstring injury in 2022. Diego Castillo does his best work in high leverage situations,aking him a great closing option for the Marlins and not such a good middle reliever for the Mariners.
I hope the Marlins played this right. Sometimes a switch to a new position is good for a player, but sometimes the worry of “how to make the play” at the new position….. fear of mis-fielding, so to speak, can weigh heavily on a ballplayer and cUse them to regress at the bat. Here’s hoping his athleticism can carry him when his innate instincts and lack of repetition don’t kick in. They need him.
Jazz has already switched. Played exclusively SS his whole minor league career.
Not the same thing going from SS to 2B as going from the infield to the outfield.
1) The lights are less of a factor in the infield
2) The ball is affected by the wind differently in the infield and the outfield.
3) Running on dirt and throwing from the side is much different than running on grass and throwing over the top as they do in the outfield.
4) SS and 2B are essentially a mirrored version of the other position, but outfielders take years to adapt to the outfield before becoming good at it.
5) Most guys fail to make the transition there from the infield and players with an injury history, quickly move to a corner. Dee Gordon was awful in the outfield.
Yep, I hear ya GMoney2850. Ng has been busy. Payroll well above 100 mil now. Maybe she’s at the spending ceiling that ownership set in place?
Well Marlins fans, see you guys here in a year or 2, when people are going to have to be moved again, after the clown show that has Bssn the last 2.5 years of decision making by whT is a joke of an organization. Have to give them credit though; they managed to find a new level that not even I thought they would be able to reach
@formerlyz
I think all of us Marlins fans felt that there was no way that anyone could be worse than Mike “Yes Man” Hill. Apparently it is possible. All Ng needs is to add her own legacy of a Miggy Cabrera trade and a Yelich trade, then she’s secured her spot.
That will happen when she moves Alcantara in a year or two.
Ng won’t be the G.M. in two years.
We can only hope.
Go ahead. Trash her after she has had what has been widely recognized as a solid offseason. Says more about you than her. A lot more.
@Utah cornelius
Where is it said that she has had a solid offseason? Because in Miami, where she works, our fanbase and local media have been critical of her moves prior to 2022, and for her inactivity since the trade deadline…until her recent scramble after the harsh bashing she’s taken.
Again, where has she been recognized for a solid offseason because it hasn’t been in Florida where she works…not in South Florida where the Marlins play. Not among the Marlins fan base or the local media.
Where?
Apparently, in Utah.
The thing I cannot get past is how wrongheaded it is for an emerging franchise like Miami to make their big push in a year when three teams in the division are clearly just leagues better than they are. Why is contending in 2023 such an urgent prerogative that they’re dealing flawed MLB pieces for other flawed MLB pieces instead of further loading the farm system—particularly if those new acquisitions mean moving developing young players off their natural positions?
Why not now? If they’re going to be competitive in the east, might as well start building toward that goal now and adding more good players in the coming seasons. Plus, if Ng hadn’t made some moves, people would be accusing her of not making any moves.
@avenger65
Our fan base and some of our media had already been bashing her inactivity since the trade deadline.
@avenger65, deviating from your long-term strategy to pacify a restless fanbase is a sign of ownership that’s not confident in what they’re doing. Like, as a Red Sox fan, it’s been painful to watch Bloom & Co. completely rebuild what’s at times been a fairly competent roster. But the reason I think they’re bad at their jobs isn’t that they’re leading the team into a fallow period, it’s that in back-to-back seasons—first with the Story signing, then with holding onto everyone at last year’s deadline, and now with the Devers extension—they’ve made moves clearly designed to placate the fanbase instead of improving the team in the long term.
Right now, the Marlins still suck, or at least don’t have a hope of contending in their division. If they’d done like the Rangers and signed 3-5 superstars, it’d be a different story. But these kinds of mid-tier improvements are just going to keep them in a cyclical world of .500 records for the next ten years, especially if you’re giving up controllable MLB talent and top prospects in order to make them happen. Unless they extend Arraez, I don’t believe they’re going to be competitive in the window of time that they have control of him. Since that’s the case, why not tank?
@thecrocusesareinbloom
The reason the Marlins can’t tank is because they can’t waste the years of this pitching staff. Arraez is one of the additions that makes sense because of his age. However, I do agree that the Marlins should attempt to extend him…as well as Jazz, just as they did with Alcantara.
Another thing with the Marlins, they are a Closer away from competing for that 6th playoff spot. Most people will point out the tough division, but with the new schedule being spread out, and less games against division rivals, it opens up the opportunity for teams like the Marlins (and really teams in both Eastern Divisions) to try to sneak in by beating the weak teams in the weaker divisions in both leagues. For example, a team like the Marlins having probably 18 less games against the Braves, Mets and Phillies, while having those replaced with games against weaker teams in the AL Central and other losing teams in the AL. Even with the games against the good AL teams, how many of them really are going to make the schedule tougher than those 18 games against the Braves, Phillies and Mets? We already play the AL East teams regularly, and the Rays every year.
With this said, it still all depends on the Marlins landing a Closer.
The Marlins are a lot further away than a closer.
Wasted money on Cueto. Holes up and down the lineup.
You realize that the
Cardinals, Dodgers, padres, Mets, Braves, and Phillies are 6 teams?
Which one are they better than? That’s with completely disregarding the Brewers, Cubs, Giants, and D’Backs.
@BStrowman
Fair comments, but you’re not taking into account one thing – the schedule change. For teams in both of the Eastern Divisions (AL and NL), the new schedule will be weaker than the norm they’re used to playing against. It will be tougher for the teams in the other 4 divisions because of the less games against the bottom teams while having to play against the tough teams in the opposite Eastern Division teams more – especially for the Central Division teams in both leagues. So, teams like the Brewers, Cubs, Giants, Padres, etc will be playing more games against the Yankees, Rays, Orioles, Blue Jays, and Red Sox. And depending on which division they’re in, more games against the Astros etc. as well. For the Marlins, those 18 or so less games against the Braves, Mets and Phillies are replaced by games in the AL Central where there are no teams at the same level as these teams. Only the Astros in the new schedule compare to these teams the Marlins will be playing against less – and that would only be 3 games to replace about 18. The Nats games are cancelled out by the last place teams in either division.
And this is even before I point out that the Marlins pitching staff can match up or outpitch most other pitching staffs, even in their own division. And that pitching staff has handed many leads to their bullpen, which their bullpen has almost single-handedly made the difference the last two seasons in them being a 90-loss team versus a team being around .500.
Feel free to look at this.
I wouldn’t go so far to say they’re emerging from anything, but I agree with your point. Why not stick and stay with what you have till the deadline at least. People get hurt, Meyer for example, and depth is never a bad thing, especially if you’re going nowhere this season and teams better than yours may over pay to make a move for the postseason when they get hurt. To look at the marlins roster and assume anything other than 2nd to last is absurd. Moving Jazz makes no sense, they had plenty of time to sign a stop gap CF or acquire one, and they didn’t. I’d say they should’ve just sign Tapia to an MLB deal to play there and take what they get for the year. They cling to players like Cooper who isn’t any good anyway, while letting other players leave, so send him packing for a serviceable CF and leave your best player alone. Makes no sense…
Never a fan of this logic. You’re not going to win the division, but eventually you have to try to win something. It’s not World Series or bust for all 30 teams at all times. Can’t let that rotation go to waste.
Miami strip clubs get ready, Arraez LOVES singles.
Comment of the day
Did anyone else feel that ghost of Dee Gordon…strange…vibe? Like when Seattle thought he could play CF? Chisholm kind of gives me that impression, with much more power than Dee, and a little less base stealing ability.
So..then not like Dee at all then lol..
Yep. Jazz is much younger, but similar thought process: he’s fast so he can cover center.
Billy Hamilton was converted from middle infield at the major league level. Quickly became an outstanding CF. And probably would have never developed at the plate regardless of the position change.
Exactly what came to mind.
If they felt Jazz could learn to play CF, why didn’t they do that the last few years when they were searching for a CF? They had multiple infielders that could have taken over 2B.
I’m a huge fan of Luis Arraez batting. Smart hitter. Sets up pitchers. Never really seen him off balance. But the man is below average at 2B (and 3B). He’s OK at 1B or DH. The Marlins have other guys that can play 2B. Maybe they move Copper during the season (if not sooner).
The new manager deserves a chance, so we’ll see how this works out.
When is the last time a team started two position players at positions they have never played before
Like, on opening day, not with nine guys on the DL in August
This would only happen with a GM who has never played a single recreational or professional baseball game. Executives need to understand how baseball works to make these decisions. Some are just wildly unqualified for their jobs.
Not defending the GM but I read Jazz suggested the move to CF…
Fair, but what about moving Segura to 3rd?
I have no doubt he can play CF.
My guess is by Memorial Day, Jazz is back at 2nd base.
More likely on the IL…
I grew up watching gazelles like Devon White cover large swaths of grass out in center field. Jazz looks to have the physical ability to do so.
Yes, the move reeks of desperation but Miami needs to have something drastic pan out for them to have even a remote shot in the East.
What CF was available in a trade?
This could either end up working out and solve a big problem for several years to come or it could fail miserably (see Dee Strange-Gordon in Seattle) and the Marlins can figure something out next year
Arraez is so-so at first, bad at 2nd and really bad at third. makes a lot of contact. you’re gonna love the popups to short left field. strikeouts are low…but, that is due to him swinging at a lot of crap just to avoid them
The only thing I am sure of after watching interviews and seeing the organizational moves made by the Marlins is Kim Ng is horrible at comprehending how to properly construct an MLB roster and should be fired and never given a GM position again. I’m glad we prioritized gender over qualifications. Sometimes we should just hire the best person rather than try to make political statements. It’s obvious, there are many people more qualified to lead an organization.
The Marlins traded the more valuable piece in this trade and then added two prospects that are already worth about what they got back in Arraez! Crazy!
Jazz Chisholm is a GG caliber 2B and could be a plus SS, but instead, they are playing guys at 2B and SS that are average defensively, at best, let alone playing Segura out of position, when they could move Arraez to 3B if Jazz won’t play 2B and play Segura in his best position, which is still a downgrade defensively, but less of one.
Whatever value Chisholm offers offensively will be in question, if his confidence is shaken by playing out of position. Centerfield is more physically strenuous and after so many recent injuries this should be a concern.
I’m pretty sure the Marlins have got significantly worse this offseason. They failed to clear payroll, add any real offensive differencemakers, shed bad contracts/wasted roster spots, and most importantly trade from their wealth of pitching to create a competent lineup.
The Marlins may win 10-12 of the 14 games against the Nationals and still lose 100 games in such a strong NL East. I would be amazed if Ng still has a job at the All-Star break.
As bad as the offense is in Miami, the Marlins should’ve used their pitching and prospects to trade for Tatis Jr. The big thing being the long contract guarantees the Marlins could use his presence and youth to lure more free agents. They need a SS and Tatis doesn’t want to be an outfielder. Could be a win-win and Preller isn’t scared of making the big deal.
I would offer Sandy Alcantara, Garrett Cooper, and a couple young arms for Tatis and Kim with both not being guaranteed a spot in the infield by the Padres. Kim could be a GG 2B and Tatis could be a perenial All-Star. What good is a 5-year deal with Alcantara just to sit at the bottom of the standings?
Oh come on now, Ng was rightfully floated as a top GM candidate for nearly two full decades before being hired by the Marlins. Criticize the decisions but don’t belittle her by portraying her as a diversity hire.
Ever wonder why a left-leaning group of organizations like the ones that make up the Major Leagues, who are looking to make diversity hirings at every turn, has passed her over for 20 years?
Listen to her interviews, she sounds like someone who understands the rules of the game, but has no idea how to make a team competitive.
I would be surprised if she could even define the reason teams like the Braves (develop & extend), Mets (spend more than everyone), Cardinals (develop and trade), and Padres (strip the farm for any trade to add talent) are successful vs why the Marlins can’t get to that level despite a ton of value in their farm and a desirable place to live.
You said it perfect @angels
Ng has had what has been widely regarded as a solid offseason. Your remarks are suspicious at best.
@utah cornelius
Where has she been regarded as having a solid offseason?
She has been bashed by the fan base and the local media here in Miami. You know…the fan base and media that actually know what has been going on with the Marlins.
@UtahCornelius
Your understanding of baseball is the only thing in question.
There is no way signing Segura off a pedestrian year and moving him out of position…
Then acquiring a slap-hitting 1B miscast defensively as a 2B…
Then she moved her GG caliber 2B to play a foreign position with huge defensive implications in CF to weaken two positions…
Also, Ng traded away one of her best starters for a guy (Arraez) worth less than what she was giving up (Lopez) and then added two more highly touted prospects (Salas & Chourio) to make it twice as lopsided…
Let alone moving Wendle, an average defensive 2B/3B with minimal offensive ability, to SS after trading away a GG caliber SS (Rojas) with a similar offensive profile to Wendle.
She has been nothing short of a mitigated disaster for a team that needed to hit a HR with their GM hiring after the largely unanimous perspective that the Marlins are a dumpster fire, surrounded by a lake of gas, in the middle of a forest fire.
@UtahCornelius
This was such a bad take, I almost had to flag your comment as harassment!
Here is an interview from a few weeks back where she almost called Miami, “Mil..waukee?” That she acts like Eder will come back from injury and give any amount of meaningful innings is crazy. She seems nice and well spoken for the most part, but I don’t find her baseball acumen to be any better than a Harold Renolds hot take. The fact that she thinks they can compete in the NL East in the next three years is delusional at best.
mlb.com/news/marlins-winter-meetings-preview-2022?…
Six paragraphs of analysis rooted in your belief in how bad a GM Kim Ng has been, followed by the ridiculous suggestion that the Marlins “trade for Tatis Jr.”
And then to throw in Kim and include Garrett Cooper’s name as if he would have any value or appeal to Preller and the Padres?
Terrible. Just stop.
@agentx
The Padres still don’t have a natural 1B, which is where Cronenworth may end up to keep Kim at 2B. It would make more sense to keep Cronenworth at 2B and add Cooper, making it possible for the Padres to move Kim. No 1B coming back means Cronenworth, and in this case Kim, are necessary pieces for the infield.
Roster construction is chess not checkers and Cooper is highly undervalued as a lefty crusher who can hold his own against righties. Tatis is on shaky ground with everyone in the Padres organization and how many other under-25 stars are available for the Marlins to target in trade, let alone on a team with so many stars that he could be moved with little objection?
Is it a risk, sure, but Alcantara’a prime will be wasted and they could rebuild for 4 years (what it will take) and still be in Tatis’ prime years. Plus, Tatis’ jersey sales would dwarf the rest of the team combined and they wouldn’t have to worry about extending him.
The Marlins are the only non-NL West team that has nothing to lose and the resources to acquire him and pay his contract.
So many thoughts on this. Some are as follows:
1 – Clearly a fudge bomb to the Pirates about their demands for Reynolds.
2 – I have to give credit for creativity. This is very creative in an effort to improve the offense.
3 – Seeing Jazz in CF will be interesting. He’s young enough to learn. He has athletic tools. The question will be whether he can make the adjustment to the new position.
4 – While this can be questionable, before we all go all in for bashing the decision, we have to remember that there are many teams that have a guy starting in CF that is not a true CF…and they are just happy that the guys are passable. Let’s see if Jazz can be another passable CF in MLB.
That’s the problem with 30 teams. There’s not enough good players to go around. That’s also why so many players have to play out of position and why teams sign minor league-level DFA’s just to add fantasy depth.
No, the problem is rich teams hoard starters on the bench and most teams would rather run out of reclamation projects than pay for talented players.
The Nationals had to overpay Jayson Werth to change the culture and they made good choices with their draft picks, which led to their World Series win.
At some point the Marlins need to overpay for a star player in terms of money or trade cost, so they can get a building block for the team. Pitching is important, but you can’t build a team around a guy like Alcantara who only pitches once every 5 games.
Chisholm would be a fun addition for a contender, but he is well below average against LHP and is not the type of player personality-wise that can lead a team.
Tatis could be a lineup anchor if the Marlins acquired him, but they still need a veteran who could lead the team.
Most of their veterans are either not natural leaders, have been overly critical of teammates, are not guaranteed either through play or contract to be with the team all year, and most importantly have the resume to make young players feel they can trust them to make them better.
A team without direction should not be adding volatile players like Soler, guys with questionable ethics like Avisail Garcia who slept with teammate Prince Fielder’s wife while on the Tigers. The best players have extreme platoon splits and half of their starting players are either trying to justify promotions or contracts and have, as of 2022, proven to be below-average Major League players.
I seriously doubt the Pirates care about this move. The ask for Reynolds is extremely high because they have no intention in trading him. All these fans getting bent out of shape makes me laugh.
The Pirates have the right to ask, but it’s a gamble if they don’t sign Reynolds long-term. They’ll end up getting less trade leverage as they come closer to his walk year.
This is the whole thing, I may want a million dollars for my house, but if I have to move in 6 months, I better get realistic on its value and either not move or lower my price.
If the Pirates could get $60M in prospect value by Spring Training, he’ll be worth less than $45M by the trade deadline. In a year they’ll be lucky to get $35M with less years to offer. L
The Marlins shouldn’t target Reynolds anyways, they need to go youbger, look for guys with more control, and sign them when they are pre-arb. Reynolds would be going from one non-contender to another non-contender with a bad reputation amongst the players.
Add into the equation Reynolds already being 27 and only under contract for three years and he’ll be older and expensive when they hit their competitive window in Miami.
The Marlins ahould be targeting young players like Eloy Jimenez, MJ Melendez, Gavin Lux, etc.
While ultimately this may solve the long-standing CF problem, I can’t help but feel the team as a whole has just moved the furniture around without getting substantially better.
Even assuming bounceback seasons from A Garcia and Soler, and Schumaker bringing along a little of that Cardinals Devil Magic with him from St Louis, I think they still need a power hitter to even dream on a wild card spot.
They6 need a Closer more than anything. That void has single-handedly cost them many game over the last two seasons as many many late-inning leads have been blown.
Devlsh;
I assume that Skip Schumaker had a lot to do with this, because Ms. Ng and her FO have shown no ability to think outside the box.
I assume they called Jazz to see if he was good with it. The problem here is that I thought Amad Rosario should have been moved to CF with the Mets, and in fact Cleveland did try to play him there when they got him. The man had all the physical attributes to play CF. Turns out he was terrible in CF – it’s not like it appears in the stands and on TV – balls hit at the ML level curve, sink, take off left/right and over the OF head. It takes years of work to read the spins – and reading the spins is a lot easier in LF and RF because the ball is at an angle so it’s easier to pick up.
No one’s expecting the Marlins to go to the WS this year. They play in a large park where stringing together singles and doubles is a good approach – which Arraez is great at (and he’ll get a lot of triples in that park as well). Of course, that goes along with solid D. This could be a step in the right direction, especially with the rule changes coming. If it seems to be working they can bring in some speedsters in 2024.
Marlins might be good soon.
Lets see.. we got a good 2b coming off a stress fracture in his back AND knee surgery. Should we trade for a new 2b and move our old one to DH? Nah let’s make him play CF. Miami would be better off with a magic 8ball as GM
Well they are thinking outside the box. I think it will work out fine. I’m sure they have watched him do it already during the season flagging fly balls. People put too much into metrics at times. This is where watching him is what should be judged. Heck Braun made the switch and was fine so this will be ok. What will help the most is who is on each side of him.
Anthony Franco, thanks for the deep dive into Arraez. Not surface level.
What happens to Berti?
Same role. He bounces all over the 9 positions he can suit up for.
This move allows The MARLINS to also sign YURI GURRIEL as their back-up first baseman
The Marlins got a singles hitter with no power or speed.
Don’t see how that helps much…..
It doesn’t because his value is magnified positively and negatively by the guys hitting around him. In a lineup of easy outs, he’s not very valuable.
Yip. Yip. Yip.
He’ll be the next Steve Sax and ex-Twin Chuck Knoblauch who can’t find first. There’s a reason he was shifted to a position where he didn’t have to throw the ball.
Welp. That’s great. Anybody else in the market for a 2b on your dynasty team come 2024 now?
Still will qualify as a 2B in 2023 and will be a 2B again when this weird trial-by-fire goes awry. Probably this will tank his value and he’ll be traded by next offseason.
Marlins have great pitching but where is their core position players to build around. This trade really doesn’t address that issue.
Their pitching isn’t that great. sandy Alcantara is good, but Lopez is gone, Garrett and Luzardo have had half a season of good starts, Rogers had a horrible 2022, Perez is unproven, while most of their other starters are injured or coming back from injury.
60 wins is optimistic.
This isn’t like moving Tina from cosmetics to health and beauty aids. Center field is a tough position to play and select few can play it well.
This is an underappreciated quip. Thanks for the laugh, but also you are 100% right! Centerfield is no easy place to play, especially with the swirling winds of the MLB stadiums.
While I can understand the thought process behind getting creative to solve the hole in CF, the overall plan seems like a bad one.
1) A team based on strong starting pitching should be trying to get better defensively, especially up the middle. Now the Rojas trade makes less sense. So, the Marlins plan to start different players at C, SS, 2B, and CF. None of the new players are obvious upgrades defensively. Bad overall plan.
2) They had the most valuable asset available on the trade market and still had to add prospects to get a deal done. Why? They fell in love with one particular player instead of trying to maximize value. Bad overall plan.
3) They could still possibly salvage this situation. Conceivably, they could trade another starting pitcher, possibly for a SS upgrade.
I see this scenario playing out: Jazz will be a solid CF’er but I think he will be aggressive with his throws like Puig was (purposefully missing cutoffs to make a big play). Which will lead to a problem in his throwing arm midseason.
The important thing is to look cool in the sunglasses.
White Sox should be on the phone with Marlins brass in a Chisolm for Cespedes swap. Maybe not straight up, but certainly the core of a deal. That would benefit both teams greatly.
Jazz would go to a team that clearly needs and wants his services in the infield, and Cespedes can play unimpeded in CF.
I like this idea. But, if I’m the Marlins I am asking for Colas+ for Jazz. Cespedes would never be a centerpiece for me because his strikeouts are too concerning. He’d have to be a part of a volume offer.
Yea, but Colas isn’t a CF. Cespedes is. And it would likely cost a bit more but not much. Sox have plenty mid to end rotation starters just waiting for an opportunity. Moat were 18 when drafted. It could definitely get done with a little negotiation.
Chisholm would be a very nice fit for the Padres.
Jazz will be just fine in CF. And he will still be the coolest man in baseball.
I actually think this was a fairly even trade for both sides. MIN got the controllable starter they were looking for and MIA that controllable bat. Sure, they gave up two prospects but it’s not like they’re blue chippers. Salas (or Saias, as that dbag Heyman wrote) could be headed down a utility/fringe starter role and you never know with the Dominican kid. He’s still under 18. He could be the next Yadier Álvarez or the next INSERTNAME. You never know with prospects this young. If it were my team, I’d definitely take Arráez over Gleyber Torres in a deal like this, in a heartbeat.
I’m really curious about Jazz in center. He definitely has the speed, range and instincts to patrol that cavernous CF at LoanDepot. But he also has his injury concerns. So it’s definitely interesting to me but I’m always 100% down behind the philosophy of putting your best athletes in the most impactful positions on the field. The Red Sox did it with Betts. The Dodgers with Bellinger and those moves worked out tremendously.
And I don’t understand all the Ng hate. Sure she may not be the best GM/President in the game but people fail to realize this is only her 3RD offseason in that role. Sure she signed García and Soler which don’t look good early on. But they were looking for some pop and Sherman wanted to feign that they were actually trying. And it’s not like they got crazy contracts. Two years for Soler plus the player option at $13.5 M. 4 years for García at $13.25 M! Would you rather have Castellanos at $20 M for 5 years? I wouldn’t have and that was even before his horrible 2022. These contracts will only be albatrosses if 1.) They continue to produce like in 2022, which I doubt because of injuries and trust me, García is not THAT bad (Soler I’m a little less bullish about because of his streakiness but hey, if he has a good week, that could be the difference between a seat at the dance and a seat on the couch in October). AND 2.) if Sherman uses it as an excuse to not spend on any other free agents, which he might.
You have to realize. Ng’s restricted to a very dismal budget that drove even Derek Jeter away, a guy who really wanted to own a team in the place he lives! This is clearly an ownership issue, but it also rests on the fanbase. Even when they went to the World Series in 2003, they had one of the lowest attendance records in the game. Obviously they don’t even have much revenue to begin with and when, in the history of anything, has a billionaire ever purposely spent money knowing he’s 99.9% never going to see a return on that (except, I guess, if you’re Steve Cohen… for now). I understand the resale value but the fact of the matter is on a YEAR TO YEAR basis, attendance figures would logically lead you to believe they’d operate on a lower payroll.
The only thing as a GM you can really do with those restrictions, self-imposed or not, and whether you like it or not, is build at the margins while simultaneously building up your farm system. I believe so far Kim (and to an extent Hill before her) has done that part of her job fairly well. That part of the process will still take a couple more seasons at least to truly find out if it was a success or not. But guess what? In a couple more seasons, you still have Arráez, Jazz, Sandy, possibly Max Meyer a year removed from Tommy John and pitching like the impact arm he was projected to be. And as a team like San Diego starts to implode (as they lose Machado, Soto, their whole pitching staff and have virtually no reinforcements on the rise), that’s right when Miami will be in a prime position to strike and sneak into a 6th Wild Card. And as we know, anything can happen once you get into the postseason.
I’m not saying they’ll compete for a Wild Card this season, but I do think with some of the subtler moves they’ve made this offseason, they’ve improved marginally. And as they win more games, that can only bode well for the roster as a whole, but definitely for your stars in Sandy and Jazz. As a general baseball fan looking in, I’ve never been more optimistic about the Marlins as I am right now. Hopefully, for Miami’s sake, it ends up working out.
Why are you afraid to answer @marlinsfanbase, Utah?
Kim Ng excelled at her position of assistant GM with the Dodgers as a negotiator in contracts. From what I’ve seen I don’t think she’s qualified to run a Major League Team. Time to move the negotiator back to her natural position in favor of someone who has real experience either managing a team or as a GM.
She was probably good at negotiating because she was signing players without understanding their value to the team, so she could draw a line in the sand that competent GMs would not feel comfortable doing.
Mostly, she seemed to lack awareness about a situation dictating cost. As in, she wants to pay fair value and if not that, she will walk away. This is the first overpay trade I have seen her make.
There is a point with the right players you have to overpay to change the organizational narrative of a team that flips players to save money.
This Arraez trade reeks of desperation though. This wasn’t an overpay, it was a total laydown. If she was going to overpay like that, she should’ve targeted a better player.
She has been so desperate to make a move to validate her GM title, she literally got backed into a corner and gave away double the cost. This is because she is in a weak position and other GMs know it, so they are exploiting the advantage.
If I was going to make a big trade, I would’ve targeted the Guardians or Brewers for a trade. An easy trade scenario is giving up Alcantara for another ace with less control and added pieces, where you could extend them.
For instance Alcantara, Jose Salas, and Max Meyer for Corbin Burnes, Jackson Chourio (who prior to the Twins trade would’ve been incentivized to extend with the Marlins to play with his brother), Garrett Mitchell, and Keston Hiura (1B/2B).
The Brewers would do the trade cause they can’t afford a Burnes extension, but trading 2 years of an ace for five affordable years of an ace would be a big win, even if trading away your top prospect.
Hiura is depth and Mitchell is expendable because of Frelick and the existing OF options. Meyer could be the Brewers next big closer option when he heals from TJ surgery. This tradeakes the Marlins more relevant and keeps the low-budget Brewers relevant beyond 2023, when they otherwise would be trading guys.
Massive risk for the Marlins with question marks everywhere. Poorly constructed roster. The pitching staff has clear answers except for the back-end of the bullpen. The positional players are just a mess though. Don’t know who the first baseman, shortstop and catcher is going to be and there are now multiple players penciled in out of position on the roster. Additionally, they have two corner outfielders making decent money who are not any better than the younger guys they should be giving at-bats to (Sanchez and De La Cruz) I think the team will be at least better, but Kim really turned this into a cluster of a problem now. Hope it all works out
Jazz needs to be a brave … stop wasting his talents in that dump
Mickey Mantle moved from shortstop to Center Field!
Go Jazz!
Mickey Mantle went from shortstop to Center Field!
Go Jazz!
If only the Marlins can land Yuli Gurriel…
Teams try lots of things to overcome their problems. I remember in 2017, the Braves tried Freddie Freeman at third base because they had another first baseman and no third baseman. That didn’t last long.
Arraez can easily slid over to first base. Especially after this season when they will need to cover that position. Jazz can come back to the infield at either SS or Second. And no one has mentioned the young SS that the Marlins just picked up from the Dodgers who is supposed to be great defensively. That may prove to be a nice pickup.
Or if Jazz is the bomb in the outfield, the Marlins do have some other youngsters that might can play second or third or allow Segura to go back to second. Its just too early to say this won’t work. Looks like they have options with what they have done.
And someone mentioned why the focus on trying to win this year? Its a necessary step to improve the team so fans buy in and the revenues increase. If you can’t show ownership the revenues are there, there’s no way you can sign players to big long term contracts which would be the next step.
Reminds me exactly what the Braves did in 2016 and 2017. The Braves actually had lower payroll in 2016 then the Marlins have now. And they have corporate ownership that demands the numbers work. Of course, getting the new stadium in 2017 jump started their revenues, but its the concept.