The Red Sox and Marlins have been discussing trade scenarios, with recent reporting indicating the Sox have have some interest in veteran infielders Joey Wendle and Miguel Rojas. It seems that they have also discussed a much more significant trade as well, with the Fish attempting to acquire young first baseman Triston Casas, per a report from Barry Jackson and Craig Mish of the Miami Herald.
Since Wendle and Rojas are both in their 30s and impending free agents, their trade value would be fairly modest. Casas, however, is turning 23 years old later this month, still has six remaining years of control and is generally considered one of the top 50 prospects in the game. If he were to be involved in any trade, it would surely go beyond a deal for Rojas or Wendle. The report from the Herald indicates Miami tried to pry Casas loose from Boston in discussions involving their starting pitchers.
There’s nothing to suggest that Boston is open to dealing Casas or ever gave serious consideration to the overtures coming from Miami. Still, it’s noteworthy that such a monumental deal has even been discussed. The Marlins have reportedly been trying to use their rotation surplus for a lineup boost for quite some time, but haven’t yet landed a deal to their liking. While ace Sandy Alcantara and top prospect Eury Pérez are reportedly off limits, the Fish seem to be willing to part with one of Pablo López, Jesús Luzardo, Trevor Rogers or Edward Cabrera in a trade that would give them an impact bat and targeted Casas to be that guy.
The 26th overall pick in the 2018 draft, Casas mashed his way up the minor league ladder and reached the majors last year at the age of 22. He struck out in 24.2 percent of his trips to the plate, which was a bit above league average, but he also walked 20 percent of the time and launched five home runs in just 27 games. His lopsided .197/.358/.408 slash line resulted in a 120 wRC+, indicating he was 20 percent better than league average. That’s a very small sample size, but he’s also hit extremely well in the minors. In 72 Triple-A games last year, he hit .273/.382/.481 for a wRC+ of 127.
Though it makes sense that the Marlins would be interested in an exciting young player like that, it also makes sense that the Sox would want to hold onto him. Boston acquired Eric Hosmer from the Padres at last year’s deadline but then were seemingly impressed enough by the debut of Casas that they released Hosmer in December. To suddenly pivot and include Casas in a trade would be quite shocking.
The Marlins are also potentially interested in Ceddanne Rafaela, another highly-touted Boston prospect but one further away from the majors. The 22-year-old infielder/outfielder reached Double-A in 2022 and should be ready for exposure to Triple-A this year. He’s generally not ranked as highly as Casas but still has some hype, with Baseball America currently considering him the #78 prospect in all of baseball and MLB Pipeline placing him in the #96 slot. However, Jackson and Mish report that the Marlins are prioritizing improving the 2023 team, making Rafaela less interesting to them than the MLB-ready Casas.
The general framework of a trade isn’t totally inconceivable, in the sense that the Sox could surely use the starting pitching that the Marlins have to offer. Chris Sale and James Paxton have hardly pitched in the past three years while recent signee Corey Kluber is about to turn 37 and has injury question marks of his own. Garrett Whitlock has worked well in relief but seems to be headed for a move to the rotation despite just nine career MLB starts to this point in his career. Nick Pivetta is arguably the most reliable member of the bunch but he’s never posted an ERA below 4.53. Adding some more insurance into that group would make sense but it seems the acquisition costs being discussed with Miami are steep.
Though the Marlins have enough starting pitching to interest the Red Sox and many other teams around the league, these talks perhaps give us some insight as to why a deal still hasn’t come to fruition, given their high asking price. With those talks yet to bear fruit, the club has been limited to free agency in their pursuit of upgrading an offense that produced an 88 wRC+ in 2022, good enough for 25th place in the league.
The club had known interest in José Abreu, with Jackson and Mish reporting they offered a two-year deal in the $40MM range. Instead, Abreu joined the Astros on a three-year deal with a similar salary, amounting to a $58.5MM guarantee. The Marlins then pivoted to Justin Turner and offered him a one-year deal worth $15MM. He instead joined the Red Sox on a deal that pays him $15MM in 2023 but also has a player option for 2024 that would push his guarantee to $21.7MM over two years. The Fish also reportedly offered Brandon Drury $19MM over two years but he ended up taking a slightly smaller $17MM deal with the Angels. It had been recently reported by Sam Blum and Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic that Drury grew up an Angels fan and also had a pre-existing relationship with Angels’ manager Phil Nevin from when Nevin was managing the Diamondbacks’ Triple-A team that Drury was on in 2015 and 2016. After missing out on Abreu, Turner and Drury, the Marlins then got a deal done with Jean Segura.
While Segura is a solid addition, it seems the Marlins are still trying to complete a significant trade that will make an even larger impact on their lineup. It doesn’t seem likely that Casas will be the one, but it gives some sense of the type of impact player they have their eyes on. With about six weeks remaining until Spring Training, it will be very interesting to see what other players they pursue and if they can line up on a deal.
CaptainJudge99
Pablo López and Joey Wendle is probably who the RedSox are after.
acell10
Potentially but I doubt they want to give up Casas to get them
kmk1986
I think they r crazy to be dangling casas already in his career when we need a first baseman no thanks to wendle or luzardo who was up and down
Fever Pitch Guy
kmk – The Bloomers are already preparing their “It was a good trade, Casas won’t amount to anything” shtick.
acell10
I’d be surprised is any “bloomers” would accept this deal. Most with any sense would rip bloom a new one if he traded casas for any of the players mentioned outside of Alcantara.
JoeBrady
The issue with the non-Bloomers is that they refuse to engage in hypothetical discussions such as whether or not Casas should be on the table, and what should return should be.
When the objective is to criticize every Bloom move, having these hypothetical discussions is counter-productive. By actually having an opinion before a move is made, they cannot then criticize the move if it similar to what they opined.
Of course, maybe I will be surprised and one of them will come up with an opinion on what the article is discussing.
PulledaBloom
JoeBrady – Living in a virtual reality world versus the real world is a bad thing? Do you ever read what you just wrote?
The objective for me is to evaluate EVERY move Bloom makes and apply baseball facts to it to determine if it is good or bad. That has not gone Bloom’s way very often. Do I hate Bloom? No I loath Bloom as an unqualified GM ruining the Red Sox roster but it’s not personal. I don’t know the man so I don’t hate him. I simply hate his choices for the good of the Red Sox.
As far as this hypothetical deal is concerned, what is the goal of the deal and why is it a goal? The obvious goal is to improve pitching. That leads us to the question why focus on that area of the roster?
Take a hard look at the roster. Pitching isn’t the biggest problem. The outfield is. Yoshida can’t play LF so must be DH. Kike should be in the minors. Verdugo is a league average player. Not ONE team in the AL East has an outfield as weak as Boston’s. What was one the team’s biggest strengths is now it’s biggest weakness. With Devers killing the team on defense at 3B but doing well at hitting, Story having his metrics impacted as a shortstop by playing next to Devers but hopefully hitting to his normal abilities in 2023, Arroyo a league average or worse 2B and two younsters who have yet to step up and play league average baseball at 1B and a huge step down at catcher from Vazquez. The infield isn’t significantly better than the outfield thanks to Bloom. Yes, when Mayer and Yorke arrive and Casas or Dalbec arrive the infield will look great going forward but that’s not happening in 2023.
That brings us back to why go for pitching? Are any of the Marlins pitchers that much better than Houck and Whitlock? Sale will be around a few years unless they deal him. So how badly do we need a starting pitcher as opposed to an OFer or catcher for 2023 or the future.
I like Houck, Whitlock, Bello, Mata and the other young pitchers who got to dip their toe in the water last year and the year before. Put them with a healthy Sale and the staff is weaker thanks to losing Nate but the future is bright. Depth at pitching is always a good idea but the OF need is immediate and long term. We have one league average AA player in the outfield for the future. We have Yoshida who isn’t a good fielder but might make for an excellent lead off hitter. And that’s it. Kike has hit .240 for a decade. Verdugo’s control years are almost up and he’s league average so not worth giving a long term contract to.
Bloom haters dislike his moves not the man. Hypothetical trades are fine but to me should target the teams greatest needs. Boston needs help everywhere thanks to Bloom but it’s biggest deficiency now is in the outfield and at catcher.
miltpappas
One year of Wendle? Because you know, Bloomers isn’t offering him a renewal.
B-Cap
Casas will be a AL ROY candidate this year
richardc
If I’m the Red Sox, I would gladly trade Casas if Miami was willing to include Luzardo and Wendle.
Luzardo really had a bounceback season last year, and began to look a heck of a lot more like his former, dominant self.
He could be an excellent get from Miami, again, IF they’re willing to part with him.
It certainly isn’t out of the question for Miami to potentially deal Luzardo. It isn’t like they’re hurting for starting pitching. The have an abundance of solid young starters at the major league level; not to mention, Miami still has a few talented, young top pitching prospects who are almost ready in their farm system.
So, if any team could trade a pitcher like Luzardo, and it not really phase them it is the Miami Marlins…haha
Jeff Zanghi
As a Sox fan I am hesitant to trade Casas at all. (And I think Bloom is pretty much 100% committed/won’t trade him per Hosmer release). However, if the Sox/scouts/reports are that Luzardo’s results were result if improvement not just luck (I believe they are legit but it is small sample) getting a 25 year old potential ‘Ace’ is one option I would have to consider. In this particular case — given Luzardo’a injury history and poor performance prior to 2022 — the Sox could probably get another player or two — I think I’d have to consider it if I were Bloom but can see both sides.
GASoxFan
I don’t think Casas is as entrenched as anyone things because of the ‘hosmer’ decision. Turner isn’t good for much except dh/1b, and, they’ve already got a dh – their 105m npb ‘marquee’ signing.
Nah, he’d be willing to go with turner/dalbec at first if he gets the right package coming back. You need an upside project with questionmarks, that’s the centerpiece of every bloom deal. Established/known commodities need not apply.
RobM
If they had Devers signed to a long-term deal, then moving Casas for Lopez would make sense since Devers could be their eventual 1B’man. Problem is, Devers is not signed past this year, and I doubt they’d make him play 1B in his walk year if they have any desire to keep him.
Fever Pitch Guy
GASox – And Casas being a Dombrowski draft pick makes it even more likely Bloom trades him.
richardc
The one thing about Casas that would have me hesitant to trade him is his excellent eye and approach at the plate.
To be able to muster up almost a .400 OBP, and to be able to offer value 22% above the league average offensively while still HITTING BELOW the Mendoza line, that is pretty dang incredible.
That is especially the case with a hitter that is only just entering his mid 20s. Kind of reminds me of a Joey Votto’esque type of hitter, if he’s able to get everything in sync on a more consistent basis..
Just_a_thought
Richard – wrong Joey, you must be thinking of Gallo.
PulledaBloom
GASoxFan – To be fair, Turner is a better defensive 3B than Devers and will be at age 45 but Casas to me is not set in stone since Dombrowski drafted him and Bloom has exercised his demons by removing all signs of Dombrowski.
I don’t see Dalbec being around much longer or Duran because they too are Dombrowski guys. He’s erased the entire board except for Sale when it comes to Bloom eliminating all remnants of Dombrowski.
I don’t believe any Dombrowski guy has a future with Boston once his contract is up.
RobM
Lopez would have to be in the deal, but I don’t believe the Red Sox are after anything for Casas. This feels more like the Marlins are the ones asking. They wouldn’t have designated Hosmer if they thought there was even a remote possibility they were moving Casas.
miltpappas
Wendle walks after ’23, Lopez after ’24. If that were the deal, Bloom should be fired immediately afterwards.
JoeBrady
I agree. Casas for Lopez would be a step backwards in the sustainability model. I’m certainly open to trading Casas, but I’d be looking for a someone with 4+ years of control.
Wendle won’t move the needle much irt the return. But he is a useful throw-in.
PoisonedPens
Any combination of replacement-level players will be exactly what Bloom is looking for….
jdgoat
Joey Wendle for Casas sounds fair to me.
Buzz Killington
Although Wendle is a player who offers some value and upside to Boston, trading a player such as Triston Casas for him is not a very fair and even deal for the Boston Red Sox.
acell10
I figured the OP was being sarcastic.
rememberthecoop
Sarcasm Buzz.
Superstar Prospect Wander Javier
Oh the irony
Randy Red Sox
it doesn’t mean Bloom would not make it. He is bound and determined to make the Red Sox HIS team and Casas is a DD guy.
acell10
there is no way in hell he’d make it. His team or not he’s not going to give Casas away for a utility infielder otherwise it would have been done already.
Randy Red Sox
I dont actually think Bloom would make that trade either but given his track record one can’t be certain.
mcase7187
No he’d trade a guy who hits 30+ hrs for a guy who can’t hit off a tee (JBJ) and some more garbage infield prospects
RSmith
and 2 minor leaguers. There I fixed it for ya.
mcase7187
Hints the 2 garbage prospects
CleaverGreene
1B only prospects, unless they’re 45 homer guys, should be trade material. Devers belongs at 1B anyway.
mcase7187
Devers is gone at the end of the yr for nothing even if he is trade it will be for nothing bloom doesn’t know talent look at Al the garbage his signed and got in trades for Betts Benny,Renfroe other trades he got extremely lucky with Mayer dropping to him but plenty of top draft picks fail especially in the Red Sox organization
robzrealty
If Red Sox traded Casas for Wendle, then it is true, Bloom is undercover working for the Yankees.
rsoxfan4ever57
Really idiot
DarkSide830
Might wanna get your sarcasm detector fixed.
nailz#4life
Sniffs of a Jeff Bagwell type of trade – in reverse
hiflew
How would it be reverse? I assume you are comparing Casas to Bagwell, which is ridiculous BTW, but if you are then it wouldn’t be in reverse. Itr would be Boston giving up the prospect 1B for something or going the same direction.
Ketch
He’s comparing Wendle to Bagwell. And I can see that – both are HOF talent, except for Wendle.
deweybelongsinthehall
Are there PED rumors about Casas? Not to my knowledge but then I could understand the comparison to Bagwell.
RSmith
He’s talking about the Red Sox trading a young Bagwell to Houston as a young Casas would be traded. He just messed up by calling it “in reverse”. Its a bit odd to jump straight to PED rumors.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – I did hear Casas may have been taking HLGH …. Human Leg Growth Hormone, to make his legs outgrow the rest of his body.
I don’t know how it would be possible to prove though.
deweybelongsinthehall
I was being sarcastic because a) I’m anti-PED, b) believe Bagwell used and c) the comparison doesn’t work because Alcantara is not in the twilight of his career
deweybelongsinthehall
Nice response back Fever!
RSmith
You are GREAT at sarcasm!!!!
Learn how to project it, or don’t use it. No way anyone could tell you were being sarcastic, except for you and maybe your close buddy. But if FPG is your buddy, that speaks volumes.
deweybelongsinthehall
rsmith – you sound like your significant other used your last condom with someone else. Too bad your parents didn’t use one – no scarcasm needed.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Who is this rsmith and why do I hear he’s attacking me? Most likely an alt account, which I have now muted.
deweybelongsinthehall
No idea who he is but there was no reason to attack either of us on at least this thread.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Thanks! Those like you who truly follow the Sox get my humor. LOL
showmebb
Not much the Sox can do to give themselves a chance in that division in 2023. I see the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, and Orioles as better than the Sox.
roiste
The Yankees and Jays, sure. But Boston could easily match or surpass TB or BAL with a couple strong moves to add to the infield and the rotation. It’s just a matter of if they decide to make said moves
VonPurpleHayes
I don’t think they’re that close to TB or BAL.
JeffreyChungus
Stick to the NL
roiste
Tampa has a lot of holes in their lineup (catcher, center and right field, DH), and Baltimore’s rotation is still not very good besides Grayson Rodriguez. I’m not saying the Red Sox are at their level now, but if they add another starter and a solid infielder, then it’s definitely possible for them to be competitive with the O’s and Rays. Acting like there’s no chance whatsoever is melodramatic
deweybelongsinthehall
Fletcher, the funny thing is how many predicted Boston to have 90+ wins in 21? That’s said thifeels like the early 80s to me.
RSmith
Hosmer got cut from Boston, and grabbed by Baltimore. There’s obviously not a huge void between them, and anything can happen.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – If it is the early 80’s again, I still have my parachute pants … and they still fit me!
deweybelongsinthehall
Never had them but no they would not fit me today if I had and saved them
DTD/ATL1313
Boston has no pitching and little offense…not sure what strong moves are out there to be made but they’d have to be 10 shots of espresso strong to make a move to 3rd in that division.
Billy Rohr
They have plenty of pitching.
DTD/ATL1313
Sale, Kluber, and Paxson are just as likely to miss more games than they start. Even if healthy, they’re number 3 starters on their best days. Pivetta and Whitlock are 4s on their best days. The bullpen is relying on old, declining veterans for the back end. They have names and nothing more.
robzrealty
Agreed. If Sox do my trade idea with the Marlins, a rotation with Cabrera, Bello, Whitlock and a lineup with Casas, Devers, and Xavier Edwards make the Red Sox talk for a possible playoff spot.
Sideline Redwine
The Rays never even gave Xavier Edwards a shot, which still ticks me off.
cuban363566
What exactly is your trade idea where the Red Sox get Cabrera and Edwards while keeping the guy they are actually targeting in Casas?
RSmith
Agree with Rohr, Red Sox have boatloads of SP, its whether or not any of them can establish themselves as top end of the rotation. Young pitchers are like spaghetti, throw enough of them at a wall and see what sticks. Im hoping for big improvements from a few of these names: Bello, Mata, Whitlock, Houck and Crawford.
Also, the bullpen is worlds better than last years.
kingken67
Why exactly is Sale likely to miss as many games as he starts? Which of the freak injuries he had in 2022 is likely to resurface again in 2023?
Randy Red Sox
He meant REAL pitching
DTD/ATL1313
King, so the rib stress fx was a freak injury? Beyond that, have his shoulder and elbow injuries also been freak issues? The guy is glass and has been healthy for a long time now.
kingken67
Give me a break. The elbow injury was addressed with surgery in 2020, from which he returned in August of 2021 and made every scheduled start asked of him the rest of that season. Is Eovaldi’s elbow still a concern after having had 2 TJ surgeries? Is Verlander still suspect? Or is it just Sale?
DTD/ATL1313
All elbow and shoulder injuries are a concern, specifically when someone is as fragile as Sale.
avenger65
Don’t forget the infamous pinky injury that his season this year.
kyredsox17
I get your point that they’re aging and injured. But, “on their best days” doesn’t work with those guys. They they have in fact been great on their best days.
GASoxFan
If there’s a concern I have with Sale is the innings limit vs competitive nature.
Sale wants to push, always has. But he hasn’t worked a full workload or anything close to it in a long time. How much can he do going zero to 100? Normal guys coming back from the elbow surgery step up over 2 seasons or so anyways.
JoeBrady
they have in fact been great on their best days.
========================
I agree. There is a small handful of SPs that operate on a different plane. Guys like Kershaw, Verlander, DeGrom could hit the IL tomorrow. But if they are healthy, they will likely do quite well.
It’s why I wouldn’t pursue a trade.
DTD/ATL1313
Their best days are long gone. Their best days now are mid rotation starters.
deweybelongsinthehall
What about his hip from 18?
Michael Macaulay-Birks
Well if you see it it must be true
PKCasimir
It’s the holidays. Things slow down and reporters are desperate to write their stories and columns. As a result, you see stories such as the Sox are talking about trading Tristan Casas. And I saw Rudolph’s beacon red nose guiding Santa’s sleigh on Christmas Eve,
blackandorange
And commenters get desperate for attention and we see comments like yours.
PKCasimir
And incredibly stupid ones like yours.
showmebb
The company was built-and thus named-for MLB rumors. And this is a rumor. Seems to be true to the company’s values to me. If anything, reporting actual transactions is outside their core.
IronBallsMcGinty
Actually the article says the Marlins are interested in acquiring Casas not that Boston is looking to move him.
kingken67
Exactly. But some Sox fans have become so into bashing Bloom for everything and anything that an article about another team inquiring about a Sox player immediately becomes Bloom thinking about trading him. The complete lack of perspective among many in the Sox fan base is making it embarrassing to be a fan lately.
Fever Pitch Guy
King – It goes both ways. There are plenty of Bloom suckups who write some very embarrassing stuff too.
Unfortunately that’s the direction much of society has gone recently. They pick a side and then mindlessly support it all the time. Very few stay in the middle and support what’s right.
Boxscore
Wouldn’t surprise me if they pay their writers on click rate hence click bait. Also wouldn’t surprise me if Bloom got soaked on a trade…most guy GM’s have I guess it’s now a woman’s turn….
Keithbw22
Casas, Rafaela and Meyer for Alcantara. Marlins prob still say no. That would be a shakeup! I doubt the Sox are moving Casas or Meyer unless it’s a top 10-15 player in the MLB.
acell10
I doubt the sox would make this trade either (doesn’t make a ton of sense of them) especially after letting Xander walk.
rememberthecoop
The Fish aren’t trading Alcantara.
User 401527550
Sure they would if the right package is offered. The Marlins are always willing to trade away players.
deweybelongsinthehall
The Fish probably had a calculator in hand when the big contracts were signed to calculate their team share of the other teams’ tax liabilities. They then will determine if Alcantara is to be traded after 23 or 24.
roiste
Neither team would do that trade, and they would both be correct
MuleorAstroMule
I just want to take a moment to thank you for not including Bobby Dalbec in your proposal.
ddj05
It’s like the owners hate every player we ever grew or helped grow
redsox for_life
Casas for Alcantara and Lopez!!
rememberthecoop
Again…Fish have said repeatedly they will not trade Alcantara. And while I’m sure almost any player can be had if a team was overwhelmed by an offer, I’m equally certain they could do better if they actually put him on the block.
Wisdom shared
This sounds like yankee fans trying to peddle Andujar and Frazier for every top superstar in the league. Neither are any good, but now it is the Red Sox trying to peddle an unproven Casas that has flopped for Alcantara and Lopez. Uh huh and pigs fly too. Even Sale and Devers wouldn’t get the Miami pitchers and they are proven.
deweybelongsinthehall
How has Casas flopped? Neither team is making this type of trade. When the Fish determine when they have to trade Alcantara, they will be starting another rebuild and looking for players who are then two years away. They’re not in a financial position to thread the needle by trading him AND improving their current team.
kingken67
Apparently you flunked reading comprehension. Nowhere in this article did it say the Sox are shopping Casas, only that the Marlins inquired about acquiring him. Considering their desire to improve their offense they obviously don’t consider him a flop at all, but someone who could boost their current offensive output.
JoeBrady
Red Sox trying to peddle an unproven Casas that has flopped
===================================
I agree some of the proposals sounded like Yankee proposals, but Casas far, far out-performed my expectations. Extrapolating to 600 ABs, he’d have 39 HRs and a 181/150 K/W.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“Extrapolating to 600 ABs, he’d have 39 HRs and a 181/150 K/W.”
Based on 76 at-bats? Come on, Joe. You know better than that, don’t you?
Casas hit 5 home runs in 76 at-bats over a month.
Max Kepler hit 5 home runs in his first 78 at-bats. Over his total of 388 at-bats he hit only 4 more for a total of 9 home runs on the year.
BTW, about those crazy Yankee trade proposals: these were Triston’s prospect ratings preseason 2022:
Baseball America – #19, MLB – #16, Baseball Prospectus – #44
These were Jackson (Clint) Frazier’s ratings preseason 2017:
Baseball America – #39, MLB – #24, Baseball Prospectus – #16
Andujar was rated #59 by Baseball America and #65 by MLB preseason 2018.
Had it not been for Ohtani’s two-way rookie season, Andujar would’ve been ROY with 27 HR, 47 2B, 83 runs, 92 RBI and this slash line:
.297/.328/.527/.855/130 OPS+
That was in 573 at-bats.
Casas certainly isn’t a flop; but extrapolating 39 home runs from a month’s worth of at-bats is a stretch, and I think you know that.
JoeBrady
Based on 76 at-bats? Come on, Joe. You know better than that, don’t you?
===============================
My response was a replay to Wisdom Shared. The extrapolation was designed to show WS what his numbers would look like in a full season. It was being used for a prediction. Obviously, Casas had a very good start. I thought that was the best way educate WS.
JoeBrady
***NOT used for a prediction.
Poster formerly known as . . .
“This sounds like yankee fans trying to peddle Andujar and Frazier for every top superstar in the league.”
When did that happen?
JoeBrady
About three seasons back. Yankee fans were concocting all sorts of trade proposals for a few guys that had one-off good seasons, and some fringy top-100 prospects.
It happened so often that it became a meme.
Poster formerly known as . . .
As noted in my post above, Frazier’s prospect ratings in 2017 were comparable to Casas’s in 2022, and Andujar raked in his rookie year, so including both of them in a trade for a solid player was no more far-fetched than a lot of trade proposals. In fact, Cashman reportedly balked at including both of them in a trade for Cole, if memory serves.
That both of them subsequently succumbed to health issues and got shuttled between the minors and the bigs, ultimately amounting to very little as major leaguers, just shows that prospect ratings are not reliable predictors of major league success.
I’ll bet Cashman wished later that he hadn’t hugged those two prospects and ended up paying a king’s ransom for Cole as a free agent (another dumb contract handed out by Cashman).
deweybelongsinthehall
Funny thing is no one has brought up a) Lars Anderson or b) Anthony Rizzo. Note to MLBTR:. How about a poll,.will Casas become the next Anderson, Rizzo , something in between or a player even better than Rizzo? Boston held on to Anderson and he couldn’t cut it. Rizzo was traded in the Agon deal and fulfilled lofty projections after doing nothing special with the Padres.
CarverAndrews
Casas could end up being really good. That being said, if they can unload him for a quality starter with some control that they really like, then replacing a 1B is certainly much easier than finding pitching. Not sure that the fact that he is only being controlled for two more years makes it work.but the RSox need to be aggressive.
But finding pitching is the name of the game and that tradeoff still probably works. They can always call my Phillies and make a reasonable offer for one year of Rhys as a stopgap measure to fill the gap at 1st.
rememberthecoop
Yes Carver, that’s what I was thinking too – easier to find a 1B than a solid starting pitcher, especially at this time of year.
roiste
Seeing as the Red Sox haven’t had an actually good first baseman since 2016, I’m not sure it is so easy. Casas has a very good chance to be a longtime star in the Boston lineup. He should be untouchable, unless someone absurd like Sandy Alcantara is coming back
RSmith
Have to be a realist. At every level in the minors, Casas has lots of trouble hitting LH Pitching. He could turn into a platoon player (a heck of a good platoon player). But, there is a hole in his game.
JoeBrady
I agree. Casas could still be pretty good, but his resume is not bullet-proof. I wouldn’t be looking to trade him, but his value might never be higher. And the Fish have 5 really good SPs, plus Rogers as #6, plus a maybe top-5 pitcher in the minors, plus whatever Meyers is (top-75?).
They’re so deep that they could trade away two pretty good SPs/SP prospects, and never even miss them.
Trading Casas and/or Ceddanne would leave a hole, but getting 1/2 pitchers would make us a stronger organization going forward.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Casas for Alcantara is about as unrealistic as it gets. You want the reigning NL Cy Young Award winner for a first base prospect with 76 major league at-bats?
And six people agreed with you! Holy sh__
JoeBrady
The key piece of the post was “unless someone absurd like Sandy Alcantara is coming back”.
Since the writer suggests that Casas/Alcantara is “absurd”, then I think suggesting it is “unrealistic” is redundant.
Poster formerly known as . . .
And yet that’s the only kind of return he says he’d find acceptable.
JoeBrady
That’s about as nit-picky as you can get. I think it should be assumed, in this environment, that any team can land any player, if they want to turn their team into a wasteland. I don’t think it needs to be added that yes, if the Marlins throw in Perez, Jazz and Cabrera, then that too would be acceptable.
Nothing personal, but when you said “unrealistic” when the OP wrote “absurd”, you missed. That’s all. No biggie.
Poster formerly known as . . .
So you think it’s realistic to expect to get no less value in return for Casas than a player on Alcantara’s level? That’s what roiste said. And you agree with that — or that nothing less than a package of players equal in value to the Cy Young Award winner would be acceptable in return for a first base prospect with 76 big-league at-bats?
JoeBrady
If you had read any of the posts, you’d know I disagreed with him. Here’s what I wrote elsewhere, when someone mentioned Alcantara:
“There are plenty of ways to work out a trade. I would take Eury Perez straight up. Same thing with Jazz Chisholm. Cabrera + Meyers.
There is plenty of room for the RS to make a good trade without involving Alcantara.”
You’re trying really hard to find an argument that ain’t happening.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Given that you previously disagreed with him, yet you subsequently disagreed with me, it would seem that you’re the one who was looking for an argument.
JoeBrady
Not at all.
You said: “Casas for Alcantara is about as unrealistic as it gets.”
I then pointed out that the writer suggests that “Casas/Alcantara is “absurd”, so that your criticism was unwarranted (that’s when you should’ve quit).
Then you criticized him for not saying that any other return would be acceptable. I pointed out that it really isn’t necessary to list the universe of alternative trade strategies.
Then you wrote “you agree with that”, to which I copied one of my other posts where I specifically said “There is plenty of room for the RS to make a good trade without involving Alcantara.”
You were wrong all three times, but it doesn’t really matter. Peace.
Poster formerly known as . . .
Keep arguing. Enjoy yourself. My mistake was to get engaged with a tar baby.
JoeBrady
I’m not sure what the reference to ‘tar baby’ is.
CarverAndrews
* the fact that he (Pablo Lopez) *
rhswanzey
I don’t understand being a low payroll team in a division with Steve Cohen, the Phillies’ lineup, and the entire Braves roster cost controlled for the entire decade, and trying to compete.
There’s arguments in favor of holding assets until midseason, but if making moves in the preseason, I don’t understand the prioritization of addressing other areas of need on the 2023 roster. They don’t need average to above average regulars in 2024, they need upside signed to pre-arb extensions as the three teams ahead of them begin declining from the peak of their contention cycles.
roiste
There are three wildcards now, and with the new schedule divisional strength matters less. The Marlins have crazy starting pitching depth, it’s not impossible that they build off that to grab a wildcard
User 401527550
It’s very crazy. They aren’t competing with the Mets/ Phillies and Braves. That’s two wild cards. The Dodgers/ Padres are taking a wild card. The Brewers/ Cardinals can knock one of the above teams out of a wild card. All of the above teams have better starting pitching. They also have bullpens and good lineups. The Marlins aren’t competing until they decide to spend money and not be cheap.
JoeBrady
They aren’t competing with the Mets/ Phillies and Braves. That’s two wild cards
==================
The Marlins aren’t particularly good, but the Phillies only played .537 last year.
rhswanzey
If they want to not be 28th (!) in runs scored again, that’s fine, they can sign an averageish 1B like Mancini, Voit, etc. Look what half a season of Luis Castillo brought back for Cincinnati. If they’re trading any of their better starting pitching, they need to get high upside, up the middle prospects, and potential impact arms. They have clearly been very good at this since almost their entire roster, including Alcantara and López, came from trades. They don’t need one of three pre-arb years out of a first baseman this year.
C Yards Jeff
Does Ng really want to trade their pitching talent?
So far this off season, it looks like she’s been more focused on trying to assemble the position player part of the roster through FA? Public knowledge, that she pursued Abreau, Turner and Drury but lost out to other bidders. Pretty sure this is an indication that she has made offers to other FAs, just not known publicly, as well?
I think this is a prudent strategy. Seems every team every year has pitchers on and off the DL. Can you ever have enough quality arms to address this reality?
BStrowman
The Marlins have so much pitching though.
At some point—yes, you can have too much. You can’t develop them all in the big league rotation. Having 11-12 viable starters is excessive particularly so when you have so many holes around the roster.
A couple of those pitchers will bust but they have a margin of safety to let a couple go.
robzrealty
How about this deal?
Marlins receive Ceddanne, Matthew Lugo, and Connor Seabold
Red Sox receive: Edward Cabrera and Xavier Edwards
acell10
As much as I’d hate to lose Ceddanne that’s not a bad trade…
robzrealty
I do not wanna trade Ceddanne but would for the trade I mentioned. The SOx have to also give up prospect Lugo to get Xavier Edwards in a deal with Cabrera, who I think has the best arm of any pitcher on that Marlins staff.
FenwayFanatic
I’m not that high on Rafaela. His strikeout numbers are too high and except his fielding, he doesn’t really excell in any other categories. Casas is too good for just Pablo Lopez. I might want Jazz Chisholm type player for him.
Bruin1012
Fenway Fanatic Rafaela doesn’t have high strikeout numbers he has a low walk percentage and he has a high swing rate but he doesn’t have high K numbers. In fact, his K rate got lower last year after he went to AA and was under 20%. The worry with Rafaela isn’t that he will K a lot, he won’t, rather it’s the concern he will make poor contact against higher level pitching. The problem for Rafaela is how much he swings out of the zone. The worry is that big league pitching will take advantage of that propensity and he’s more of .200 hitter. If he can become more selective and swing at better pitches then maybe he’s a .250 to .270 hitter with 15-20 homer pop then he’s an impact all star level player.
FenwayFanatic
I just think its time to sell high on him. I’m not sure he will be able to adjust and will end up like a 2022 Jackie Bradley time player. The only problem is that other than him and Miguel Bleis (Who is Many Years Away), we don’t have a lot of good outfield depth.
robzrealty
Xavier Edwards is only 23 and can play SS for 2023 and move to CF once Mayer comes up. This kid, Edwards can hit for average, steal bases and play good defense.
JoeBrady
Same here. I’m not a big fan of Ceddanne, but if he hit a bit, he’ll be a real good player for us. But we can’t get Cabrera without giving up some good stuff/
cuban363566
Yes, yes it is. The whole point of the Marlins wanting to trade from their pitching is to acquire bats that can help them right now, not prospects that are years away which is what this guys trade proposals keep ignoring. They are inquiring about Casas for a reason, so any deal which has them shipping out pitching and whatever other player this guy wants for future talent is a pipe dream for Red Sox fans and a bad trade for the Marlins because its exactly NOT what theyre looking for.
AverageCommenter
Honestly a good trade proposal
Ketch
Xavier Edwards’ OPS in AAA last year was 50 points lower than Jeter Downs’ . Not sure he’s the difference maker here. But I do think a Rafaela/Cabrera framework is a good start that makes sense for both teams.
RSmith
Ketch:
Cabrera has 5 different pitches. His fastball averages 96.7, Strikes out 9.6 per nine. He does have a bit of a walk problem, but 1.07 Whip says it isn’t a big problem.
Its like saying “Youre offering me $1million dollars plus a used sock for my pickup truck? No way, I’m not taking your used sock.”
Cabrera alone will cost more than Raphaela, Seabold and Lugo.
robzrealty
Logo and Ceddann are rated in the top 10 Red Sox prospect list. The marlins need young hitters and are willing to give up one of their young arms.
RSmith
First off “Ceddann” is spelled Ceddanne. Next, Ceddanne is Raphaela’s first name. Its ‘Ceddanne Raphaela.’
Lastly, Raphaela has a big hole in his game. He’s never seen a pitch he doesnt like. He may learn patience, but the way pitching is valued, no one is going to give up an established SP for two Double A maybes.
robzrealty
See my traded idea from the start wise ass., I spelled it correctly.
RSmith
Its still his first name. Are you two on a first name basis?
oot
You do realize that there are 29 other teams that have 10 players in the top prospect list. In other words, there are 30 ranked as number 1; 30 as number 2; etc., for each team. Does being ranked as the top prospect for one team mean he will be ranked as number 1 for another team? Maybe he’ll be number 2 or even 3.
Ketch
BTV (baseballtradevalues.com) projects the surplus value of every player with their projected salaries subtracted from their projected fWAR converted to USD. Cabrera has a surplus value of $14.8mill. Rafaela has a surplus value of $15.1 mill on that same site. So some folks say those two match up well.
billybilly
It’s Rafaela you dip$hit
JoeBrady
It’s also Ceddanne. It’s okay to refer to a player by his first name, assuming that the is unusual enough. “John” obviously wouldn’t work. But referring to someone by first names such as Mookie or LeBron, is fine.
But what matters more is why you would get so upset because someone referred to him by his first name rather than his last name.
That’s a bit unusual.
RSmith
Because the guy has no clue who he is. He thought Raphaela was his first name. You wouldnt call anyone by his first name until he becomes widely known.
Why’d you get so upset that I called him out on it?
deweybelongsinthehall
This forum is not a literature class. Why RSmith do you have to lecture? Some have issues spelling and sometimes auto-correct screws things up. For nearly all of us, it’s no big deal. Then there’s you …
JoeBrady
Why’d you get so upset that I called him out on it?
============================
Because, based on your previous comments, you have no need to do so. You’ve only been here a few weeks, IIRC, and I’ve come to look forward to your comments.
I assume your moniker is from Reggie Smith, and Reggie would never use the word dip$chit. And he belongs in the HOF.
BStrowman
Xavier Edwards is a no punch utility man. Curiously enough he couldn’t even steal bases last year.
Truthfully I don’t believe he’s a better prospect than David Hamilton anymore. The pop never came and he doesn’t have the arm for SS or CF. Can cover those slots on a part time basis but seriously doubt you’d ever want him there for any amount of time.
robzrealty
Xavier also has a career OBP of .372 in the minors. He did well when called up to the Majors in limited action.
BStrowman
Xavier has never been in the majors and full minor league stats don’t really paint the picture.
Much easier to draw a walk in the rookie league than AAA.
robzrealty
I meant called up to triple AAA
DarkSide830
I think Miami says no to this.
AverageCommenter
Casas is not getting moved unless Alcantara is coming back. And Alcantara isn’t moving
robzrealty
Agreed Sox not dealing Casas unless the Marlins are willing to part with Edward Cabrera and 3b/outfield prospect Jacob Berry.
seamaholic 2
Good first base prospects are a dime a dozen. Casas appears to be a fine hitter but the Marlins can find a 1B-man who can hit pretty easily.
acell10
Casas has been the best first base prospect in baseball and constantly in the top 100 so he’s better than just a “good prospect”. Niko Canada is a good first baes prospect.
acell10
Kavadas I mean
FenwayFanatic
Kavadas is not anywhere the talent of Casas. I think Blaze Jordan is ranked higher than him at 1st base anyways.
Bruin1012
Actually Casas was the second best first base prospect behind Spencer Torkelson last year going into the season.
acell10
because a guy struggling in his first season in the majors is a reason to give up on him? Tork is hardly the first player to hit a speed bump in his first big league season.
Bruin1012
I believe that Tork will be just fine just pointing out Casas wasn’t the highest rated first baseman.
rhswanzey
Kavadas is nearly 15 months older than Casas and has 100 PA above hi A (Casas has 793, plus the 2020 Olympics)
acell10
holy crap the point I was making flew way over everyone’s head.. Casas is obviously better that Kavadas. Kavadas could be considered a “good” 1B prospect. Casas is way better and should be considered more that a good 1B prospect…
rhswanzey
Not trying to pile on at you – I mean, I think the guy saying “good 1B prospects are a dime a dozen” is wrong – most 1B-only prospects, including ones with plus power, do not have MLB careers. I have nothing against Kavadas, but college draftee 1B-only bats literally are AAAA ceiling players who have to prove it every step of the way, to have a chance at upgrading that ceiling. Casas doesn’t belong in this group of players because he’s put up his numbers as a fast moving HS draftee. 22-23yo’s are supposed to be destroying A ball. Guys who are producing in AA at the same age that guys like Kavadas are college seniors putting up video game numbers… they have a chance to be special.
Aaron Bates is the Niko Kavadas I was super excited about back in the day. Different handedness, but they both had their A+/AA cup of coffee season at the same age. Actually, they both hit 24 HR in A ball at the same age. – fangraphs.com/players/aaron-bates/2777/stats?posit…
These prospects have to basically .900 OPS all the way up to have a shot – a shot – at sticking on an MLB roster. Once in a blue moon, a Goldschmidt or a Hoskins emerges, but there are a lot of stagnant 1B-only bats for every one of those. Age relative to league is one of the very most important factors with all kinds of prospects, and it becomes even more important as you move rightward on the defensive spectrum.
FenwayFanatic
He wasn’t even that bad. I watched him and it seemed that all the borderline calls with him went the wrong way. So many balls that were called strikes.
FenwayFanatic
I meant Kavadas was worse than Jordan
FenwayFanatic
I meant Jordan is ranked higher than Kavadas.
Big Smoke
Why are Red Sox fans overrating their prospects like this lmao
robzrealty
What the Red Sox should do?
#1, Extend Devers for 10 years at $320 million.
#2, trade Ceddanne, Lugo, and Seabold for Edward Cabrera and Xavier Edwards.
Now you have a rotation that includes Cabrera, Bello, and Whitlock and a lineup with Edwards, Casas, and Devers. Suddenly the Sox are not looking bad for 2023 and in 2024 they would look even better.
JoeBrady
We won’t get Cabrera for that. Let’s say Lugo and Edwards are about equal (I’m not impressed with either, Seabold). Then that makes it Ceddanne for Cabrera. Cabrera is overrated off of last year’s stats, but he’s proven that he belongs, while Ceddanne is still a question mark.
I don’t think it is ridiculously far off, but I doubt they’d be traded 1-for-1.
stymeedone
How impressive does a player have to be to convince a team to replace Hosmer on the roster? Any potential at all should be enough. I wouldn’t want him taking ABs away from Torkelson.
stretch123
Wonder if a Trevor Rodgers and Wendle/Rojas framework for Casas and a bullpen arm would get it done.
robzrealty
bad trade for Boston. See my trade idea; much better deal.
robzrealty
Rodgers and Wendle or Rajas for Casas would be a bad move by Boston. My trade idea is much better and fair.
cuban363566
If this report is correct that the Marlins want Casas, how is your trade in which the Marlins give up 2 players and get 3 guys they dont want more fair?
robzrealty
Read the reports. Says Casas but mentions they also like Red Sox’s top prospect Ceddanne.
cuban363566
Does it? From the report:
“Another Red Sox prospect of potential interest to the Marlins: Ceddane Rafaela, Boston’s No. 3 overall prospect. He profiles as a center fielder or shortstop. But Rafela, 22, isn’t projected to be a significant big-league contributor until 2024, and the Marlins want to prioritize improving the 2023 team.”
It doesnt even say they’re interested, it just says he is another player of potential interest.
CarverAndrews
I share the issue of falling in love with our own prospects and always wanting to overvalue them. However, a great GM knows how to work the assets. Casas has awesome power potential, and a solid hit tool with upside (but it is still not a known). Probably will be an average to average plus defender if he keeps it up. No speed; kinda’ big and bulky; very good arm. If he could have stayed at 3rd and developed that bat to its potential, I don’t move him. At first, if I can grab a high level rotation arm with control…well, see ya’ later Tristan.
Similar situation with Alec Bohm – if they had to move him to first, that bat would have to really play up and his value is considerably diminished. Given that he appeared to give himself a real shot at sticking at third last season, he might give us some surplus value if the bat continues to trend up – time will tell. Truly, the only 1B that are too valuable to trade are the elite ones…prime Votto / Goldschmidt and so on. Guys that can anchor the middle of the order, play great defense and clubhouse leaders. Step it down, and the value there is replaceable.
RSmith
“I share the issue of falling in love with our own prospects and always wanting to overvalue them.”
What about Casas’s .619 OPS against left-handed pitching the past 2 years? Seems like you’re doing exact what you said you’d do >>> Overvaluing him.
Dont get me wrong, I hope Casas succeeds and becomes everything you described. But, Casas has a big hole in his game, in that he hasnt shown he can hit LH pitching. Duran looked like a cant miss, look what happened to him.
CarverAndrews
Given that I am advocating for a trade to take advantage of his high level prospect value, and also not declaring that he is a can’t miss stud, it mostly appears that you are using the post to restate your claim to one of his areas for potential growth. That’s OK. I don’t mind.
Yes – prospects are prospects until they prove that they can not only make the jump and enjoy some success, but also deal with things after the league adjusts to them over time. What a terrific GM is able to do is pick and choose a bit more wisely than most when it comes to the keepers vs. the trade assets. The reality is that it is an inordinately difficult game to figure out, and simply looking at metrics is not even close to enough to make a determination (as many on here seem to do).
The real genius is to emphasize the player development side to a level that you can extract higher returns for your own prospects, both qualitatively and quantitatively. Then packaging them to the optimists out there for a lot more than they are really worth at the major league level.
PulledaBloom
Carver – Incredibly insightful. I think discussing baseball with you will be fun. You get the entire smoke and mirror show that Friedman has turned into an art form. Take a guy with 298 not so great games in the low minors then promote him for 12 games while the AA team is playing two of the worst pitching staffs in AA league and watch him hit .333 for 12 games then call your buddies at the rating service and talk about his bat velocity, his launch angle and how his skills have jumped and show them his 12 game totals.
That’s how the bad Jeter Downs went from over 200 in the ratings to 44th in just 12 games and then traded for Mookie Betts as one of two key prospects going to Boston. Both of which where very highly over=rated and have proven to be in the three years since the deal.
Now is not the time to deal Casas to get a big return. Early last year after he came off his great Arizona Fall League short season was the right time. His value was sky high based on a small sample (similar to Downs) and he could have brought back much more at that time. Red Sox fans don’t want to trade prospects who are hot even if their past suggests it’s only temporary. Likewise, Red Sox fans like to deal cold guys as if their past success was meaningless. Casas has less than a super star minor league profile but he’s not as bad as he looked at the MLB level. Same is true for Dalbec, Chavis and most of the Red Sox to graduate in the last 5 years. Heck, Devers second year was atrocious. It happens. If one predicted from that one would have been wrong. Not too many guys jump to the majors successfully immediately. Betts, Benny and Bogey did in the last decade. Devers flashed greatness initially, then fell on his face then vaulted to an elite hitting level while his fielding remained at a DH level.
So when people write about deals think about who is coming off better than average performances and who is coming off less than average performances. That dictates their trade value. Sell Casas now and you will get less value than if you wait. Buy Lopez now and you’ll pay more than his real value (future value).
What certainty is there that Lopez is better than Houck? None. Or Bellow? None. The trade suggestions on this site are usually emotional suggestions that are biased toward one team based on who the suggester prefers. They claim they would be fair but most fans over-estimate their prospects and the prospect rating system completely skews value based on feedback from the owners, managers and scouts. That’s why a guy like Swihart was rated higher by all the rating systems than Mookie Betts for nearly 2 years. Can you really trust these systems? They said Downs was 44th best without doing their homework.
Trading is about moving depth for weakness. Boston has many corner infielders with solid potential. They have next to nothing in the outfield by comparison. Dealing Devers for 2 young outfielders is the quickest way to improve the Red Sox. Turner can take 3B with prospects on the horizon, Story can take SS with Mayer on the horizon, Arroyo or just about any infielder can be a placeholder for Yorke to arrive and Bloom has enough money to get a quality 1B to allow Casas and/or Dalbec to develop or be DFA’d. The team has lots of nice arms that prematurely got promoted and still have time to develop. Houck should be pitching along with Whitlock as starters of the future. Their price is excellent, they have great stuff and they need experience. SP is not the biggest need to build a future for the Red Sox. They need 3 OFs, they need to deal Devers to get one or two of them, they need to make Yoshida the DH and lead=off hitter and they need to do whatever they can to ensure Mayer and Yorke are the real deal. If they are not, then all the dismissals of Dombrowski’s team were for naught.
Bruin1012
First Base has been a problem for Boston and now they have their future first baseman. I highly doubt they would if DFA Hosmer if they were going to trade Casas. Trading Casas makes no sense unless it’s a complete overpay. I don’t believe this rumor has any legs.
hiflew
They had their future first baseman last year in Bobby Dalbec too. They will probably have another future first baseman next year too.
Bruin1012
Bobby Dalbec was always just a place holder for Triston Casas. Is there a chance that Casas struggles yes of course there is but there is no comparison between Dalbec and Casas. You have probably never seen Casas play so I’m going to enlighten you today.
Bobby Dalbec has always had big swing and miss in his game Triston Casas not so much. Casas has power to all fields and it’s easy power. Casas goes up to the plate with a game plan, in fact he has a true two strike approach, where he widens his stance and doesn’t take a stride to make contact. Triston Casas also has a tremendous eye he simply won’t swing at pitches off the plate very often. Defensively he’s easily above average at first and we’ll Dalbec isn’t. The only thing that Dalbec and Casas have in common is prodigious power.
Casas imo has the kind of profile that will hit better in the bigs then the minors since I believe he will benefit from the better strike zone calling in the big leagues.
Casas is a power hitting big lefty so there are some potential issues he has a hole up and in line most power hitting lefties and lefties with a really good breaking ball has given him problems so yes there is a chance he won’t pan out but he’s an intelligent hitter who has the shown the ability to adopt even during at bats as such I believe he has a much better chance of hitting his ceiling then his floor then most prospects.
Rsox
Dalbec was only moved to 1B because Devers is at 3B, Dalbec was never the “First Baseman of the future”. I still believe there is a solid player in Dalbec and he just needs the right coaching staff to bring it out of him. He seemed to hit much better when Tim Hyres was the hitting coach and drastically regressed (as did much of the offense) under Peter Fatse
BStrowman
Nobody with any baseball knowledge thought Bobby Dalbec was the future
PulledaBloom
Bstrowman – Not true. Every team needs guys with a huge isolated power even if they strike out a lot. Why? Because in the late innings in a tight game having a guy like that come off the bench gives the team a chance to tie or take the lead with one big swing.
There is a future for Dalbec but it’s not in Boston with Bloom. Benny was prematurely released as was Chavis and both proved Bloom wrong. Dalbec is likely to be the next to prove him wrong.
Dalbec has only played in 273 games. 1 2/3 seasons. During that time he’s had two half seasons that show his upside. HIs Isolated power in the second half of 2021 was .342. That showed promise. 2022 started slowly like 2021 and Cora gave up on him rather than treating him like Devers in his second year when he was hitting .240 for the year with an isolate power of .193.
Young players have rough stretches early and are usually given time to adjust either in the minors or in the majors. Dalbec sat instead. No development plan for him because he wasn’t a Bloom guy. Kike hit about the same but led off. Its all about team support. No support typically leads to failure. Huge unwarranted support can make the worst player look better than he is. Kike is a AAA or bench player that has started in Boston for 2 years and signed for $10MM after wasting $14MM over 2 years. That’s what’s wrong with the Red Sox under Bloom with Cora as manager.
Ketch
They still have Justin Turner.
AL34
Yeah Justin Turner will put us over the top. Last year what did the Red Sox have the worst offensive production at first base or close to it? We did not need Schwarber but I’d common sense did prevail he could have slid Schwarber in at DH when JD Martinez left. This was a shortsighted move by Bloom. Those 46 home runs would have looked great last year instead of watching Dalbac with his hole in that swing all year. Hell the Renfro trade sucked as well to pick up no hit Jackie Bradley Jr. I still have yet to figure that disaster of a trade out.
Chemo850
Has anyone else been noticing over the last few years how the Marlins seem to be targeting players who are from Florida? I wonder if this is in hopes of securing team friendly deal. I mean, it’s worked a few times so I can’t judge, but seems interesting nonetheless.
RSmith
I don’t know their history, but it makes perfect sense. If you cant outbid your opponents find an angle that works.
Chemo850
Agreed. It worked with Segura since he has his home down there and it’s being reported he wanted to go there, so he seems to have taken a discount. I can only assume this approach would be significantly more effective if they were actually winning
rememberthecoop
You may have a point; however, with the money these guys make, they can simply build or buy a new house in any city they choose to go and not even dent the budget.
utah cornelius
Huh? It’s not about finding an affordable house, it’s about being near friends and family. That’s what a hometown discount is about.
AL34
Bloom will get fleeced like he usually does in trades. He cannot trade to save his life nor sign good fee agents. He is always looking for BAHGAINS and Cheap Deals at the Buffet table after everyone has eaten and the staff is throwing away everything else.
CarverAndrews
The Bloom-ing hatred in the RSox fan base seems to be somewhat over the top from what I see on here. One might have to point a bit north in order to arrive at critical factor in what is going on with them – not just Bloom at fault. Ownership. From what I have heard, that might be something that could be changing at some point in the next year or so.
RSmith
You arent kidding Carver.
“He cannot trade to save his life”
—Jake Diekman for Reese McGuire and Taylor Broadway was a steal.
—Brandon Workman and Heath Hembree for Nick Pivetta and Connor Seabold, a steal as well.
Bloom has made several good trades, but not in AL34’s world. AL34 woke up one morning and said ‘I hate everything Bloom’ and has been that way since Bloom’s first day.
CarverAndrews
Did you really have to bring up the Workman / Hembree trade? As a Phils fan, that creates indigestion for me. Not that Pivetta is all that wonderful…I was happy to see his trademark whining leave the room…but at least he gives innings and Workman and Hembree really could not have been much worse than they were in their brief reign of terror. They combined for the Gas Can Bullpen Award in a third of a season, and the competition was steep
AL34
The Betts trade and Benintendi were great. You traded away a top player in Betts for an average outfielder in Verdugo and a backup catcher Wong who cannot hit, Downscwas released. All so they could get rid of the David Price Contract. Bloom screwed that up before that with the Gateral Brisbane trade he backed out of. Who was of value did he get for Benintendi. Seabold has still not made it in a positive way to the major leagues. Those are prospects he got from Houston for Vazquez and we will see. Yeah I’ll give you Pivetta a 4th starter at best maybe a low three but not better than that and way too inconsistent.
AL34
You impressed with this team he put together in the offseason? This team looks like it is a solid 5th place team in a 5 team division. Bloom will be fired by the end of the year. None of the rookies looks earth shattering, nor Dalbac, not Casas, not Duran, and none of the pitchers. Last year was a wasted year and it was the chance for young players to be brought up to see what they can do. Again none looked earth shattering in the time they played including all the pitchers brought up. I predicted in 2019 and called in to WEEI a day after the trade deadline that Dombroski was going to be fired. Merloni said no he was not. I was right then, Henry clipped his wings at the trade deadline and did not allow any trades. Bloom will be fired at the end of the season after this team bombs again and another 5th place finish under his guidance.
robzrealty
Casas and Bello showed promise. They were the only two bright spots.
RSmith
Betts trade was fine. It was an owner mandated trade of a player who was not going to re-sign in Boston. The only trade partners were the Dodgers. Yankees weren’t going to help out the Red Sox, and no other team had the resources (money plus the possibility of re-signing Betts) to get involved . It reduced the payroll, got rid of Price’s contract and we got 3 players back. Verdugo has been fine in LF, Wong will be the backup catcher this year, and Jeter was terrible. I’d grade it a ‘B’, with a chance to improve based on what Wong and Verdugo do moving forward.
Benintendi trade wasnt that good. Winckowski is a backend starter, Cordero couldnt stick. Freddy Valdez and De La Rosa are still in Low Minors. Time will tell, but for right now D+
So thats an A, an A-, a B, and a D+ ======= Far from “cant trade for his life”.
RSmith
“You impressed with this team he put together in the offseason?”
Yes, yes I am. Because 2023 is an obvious a transition year, but it wont be nearly as bad as your hoping for. 2024 or 2025 is the year they are planning to contend and I can wait. Im sorry you can’t. I can only imagine how you are at the Post Office or DMV. Or imagine if you were a Pirates fan. Lol!
JoeBrady
As a Phils fan, that creates indigestion for me.
==========================
Pivetta was pretty much done in Philly. He had some talent, but Philly couldn’t continue to bring him out, hoping that he’d find it. And Workman/Hembree should never had worked out that bad. I’d file this under “okay idea that didn’t work out”.
CarverAndrews
Not that I gave you that impression in my prior note on the deal, but I wholly agree with you. It was time to get Pivetta out of town. Heard glimmerings that he was not all that well-liked and that he was not easy to work with either, although all hearsay. When I heard him postgame, I never really liked the demeanor either….kinda’ snide, even while he tried to say the right things.
Long story short – I was happy to get him out of town even though we needed innings at that time. I had always liked Workman, and Hembree had a decent track record as well. So while the return was simply OK (2 FA expiring contracts), it still filled a need. The fact that it entirely blew up is “baseball happens”..
I also think that if Pivetta had been developed earlier on under the current regime things might have been different. Klentak’s player development was truly atrocious.
Boxscore
Don’t forget Renfroe for JBJ another bad trade. Bloom is a clown. They should have fired his ass last season.
JoeBrady
The Bloom-ing hatred in the RSox fan base seems to be somewhat over the top
==================================
The good part is that you won’t see many of the haters in a thread like this. Even though this could be integral to the RS future, they won’t come in because they have no real opinions other than “him stoopid”.
You’ll notice, even in AL34’s 4 comments, he doesn’t mention anything about the subject of the thread.
CarverAndrews
Honestly, I only glance through the vast majority of the replies in a thread. As soon as I see things that indicate the various goofy social media behaviors, I have moved on. So I don’t notice all that much in that regard most of the time.
Haven’t been around the comments section long, but over time I will start to recognize the saner ones that add some value, or at least try. That is plenty for me.
acell10
a wise decision
PulledaBloom
Carver – Facts are my emphasis which makes me a hated commodity on this site. Folks prefer their opinions to facts.
I’m a Bloom hater like AL34 because I observe EVERYTHING he does and I evaluate it based on facts not personal preference of specific players. I’m a Mookie lover because I said the Mookie deal was bad. Mookie’s OPS+ has proven that the deal was bad after just 3 years especially with the DFA of Downs which I predicted in 2020 based on his lack of performance in the minors other than a 12 game stretch when Friedman strategically upped his value far above reality. Wong was somewhere between 5th and 7th on their catcher depth chart at the time and projected to be a journeyman back-up and Verdugo was an over-rated prospect who had a back injury that hurt his performance for two years but he got hot for a small sample and Friedman sold him as a perennial all-star of the future. I disagreed and I was accused of hating Bloom.
If you want to observe varied unsubstantiated opinions, this is the place to be. If you want to disagree with any, be ready for a dozen trolls to jump your comment. There are about a dozen intelligent commenters and about 50 readers who don’t comment much but will use the thumbs up to agree with valid points. There is also a contingency of social influencers paid for by the marketing department to sell ownership and Bloom activities. These folks will personally attack you if you suggest something they are here to promote.is poor performance by the GM. They rewrite the history of the success of Dombrowski, they sell the Bloom Cool-Aid about the bright future that is simply going to take time and they get upset when Cora is criticized for doing a horrible job at managing. The facts don’t matter all that matters is the message defies what they are paid to support. Definitely the first people to call you a name or write something untrue about you.
Welcome to the site!! I’m confident you’ll figure out the clicks on the website and their motivation for their comments.
Ketch
None were worse than getting fleeced for Workman and Hembree.
RSmith
Research the Diekman trade with White Sox, thats a contender with Workman, Hembree. Red Sox gave up one mediocre RP to get their starting catcher and a flamethrowing Double A pitcher.
JoeBrady
I didn’t think they could get anything for Diekman. To find someone to take his salary, imo, would’ve been a good move.
Moonlight Graham
What about KC or Pittsburgh?
The Royals do have a way to get MJ Melendez, Pasquantino and Pratto all in the lineup, but that could be considered a surplus of young lefty bats—especially considering that the starting rotation is so weak. Seems like the Marlins could find one of those bats useful, in exchange for a pitcher.
Or maybe the Marlins could send a pair of pitchers to Pittsburgh for Bryan Reynolds, then sign someone like Michael Pineda or Zach Davies to shore up the rotation until Eury Perez is ready. Max Meyer could even be part of the package to Pittsburgh.
Miami might not want to trade controllable pitchers for two years of Reynolds, though.
Bruin1012
Moonlight it’s 3 years of Reynolds he’s not a free agent until 2026.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Broomhilda von Shafting the Markins might be chaiw Bloom deals for Wendyl
Bright Side
Casas, Bello, and Meyer all have superstar potential.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Unless Alcantara is coming back to the Red Sox it seems trading Casas for anybody else on the Marlins roster would be stupid.
JoeBrady
There are plenty of ways to work out a trade. I would take Eury Perez straight up. Same thing with Jazz Chisholm. Cabrera + Meyers.
There is plenty of room for the RS to make a good trade without involving Alcantara.
Big Smoke
Red Sox fans must be living in some Mickey Mouse wonderland if they sincerely believe their prospects are worth that much
JoeBrady
The prospects are worth roughly whatever the rating agencies say they are worth. Just irt the first one, FG has Casas as a FV55, and he’s had some success at the MLB level. They have Perez as a 60. Similarly, BA & BP had Eury ranked 48/54, pre-2022, with an excellent 2022 season. And BA & BP ranked 19/44.
If FG, BA, and BP are telling you that they aren’t that far apart, then they are probably not that far apart.
JoeBrady
***And BA & BP had Casas ranked 19/44.
seamaholic 2
Casas’ platoon splits are scary. Still gets on base but power completely disappears vs lefties. Good hitter, but I dunno if I give up any of the Marlins young SP’s for him.
isolatedpower
Let’s assume the Red Sox are dangling Casas and would like pitching in return. Casas plus one other player goes to Miami.
Miami wants to trade it’s surplus pitching. The middle ground would be guys like Edward Cabrera and Sixto Sanchez, guys who have loads of upside but have battled injury yet still have many years of control.
Casas + 1 for Sixto Sanchez OR Cabrera + Rojas OR Wendle seems to fit needs for both sides.
robzrealty
Sorry I would want Xavier Edwards back not a SS who is over the age of 30 and gives you nothing.
isolatedpower
I mean sure but then it would be logical for the Marlins to ask for something a little more substantial in return from the Red Sox.
PS – I have a feeling Trevor story will shift over to SS so I’m not sure if SS is a hole the red Sox are even looking to plug. Unless there’s an article that says Story will remain at 2b that’s already been printed.
SODOMOJO
Seems odd that they would deal Casas after clearing a spot for him at 1st. They seem to be pretty done with Bobby.
Rsox
I may be bullish here but i wouldn’t trade 6 years of Casas for 2 years of Lopez and 1 year of whichever Infielder the Marlins throw in. Now if we were Alcantara that would be different
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
@rsox. I agree.
Mjm117
I doubt Boston would agree to sending Mayer, Casas and whatever else the Marlins would want for the remaining 5 years of Cy young winner Sandy.
In reality, Sandy isn’t going anywhere.
AL34
How did you like the Hunter Renfro trade last year for Jackie Bradley Jr? Those 29 home runs that he hit for Milwaukee would have looked great last year. Oh yeah Bloom got more prized prospects. Let’s see if any of them develop. Give me an established player any day of the week over a prospect who could be a career minor leaguer. It is a long way from the minors to the major leagues.
BStrowman
Casas is there. He isn’t a minor leaguer. That’s your everyday 1B.
I’d consider dealing him for a young ready frontline SP but this isn’t like dealing a hope and a prayer prospect.
AL34
He struggled last year too. You are putting a lot of pressure on Casas before you anoint him with the position. Haven’t you already seen this act before with Dalbac?
PulledaBloom
Bstrowman – Bad idea to sell low with Casas. Bloom is notorious for doing it but that doesn’t have to happen. Take the over performing guys that are above their projected future and deal them for low performers from 2022 that have projected futures that are higher.
Pick any team or position and see who struggled in 2022 then evaluate whether that was a blip on their radar like Casas or their real future. These are the guys to buy.
BStrowman
I don’t think Casas’ stock is down at all. He held his own in the big leagues. The average was low but the sample was really small. He showed pop and plate discipline.
Played well in AAA.
JoeBrady
His stock is up, maybe as high as it will ever be. Both the HRs and the K/W are far better than expected. It’s obviously a tiny example, but it can only help.
acell10
because established players never started as prospects right?
utah cornelius
Because it takes so damn many prospects to come up with one solid major leaguer.
AL34
Yeah you’re right every prospect makes it to the majors. For everyone who makes it there are about 20 that don’t. Give me an established ball player over a prospect every day to Sunday.
acell10
Nice straw man argument from both of you. I never said every prospect makes it to the majors but every major leaguer started out as a prospect. Both of your short sited attitudes are what leads to the Bagwell trade that someone mentioned earlier.
acell10
and not for nothing but you actually have to allow prospects to you know become established major leaguers.
PulledaBloom
aceil10 – It’s good that you know so much about baseball that you can make such strong statements about players like Bagwell in hindsight.
Trading a prospect is a risk. Trading Bagwell had risk. Trading anyone is a risk. You can’t guarantee the future any more than someone making the Bagwell trade at the time but it’s easy for you to criticize it as if you are such a smart baseball mind. You’re not!! You’re just a guy with lots of opinions and ego.
BTW not every player starts his MLB career as a prospect. Ask Ichiro.
acell10
Pulled a bloom/KD17. the comment sections answer to a question no one asked. It’s always nice when you reinforce how little you know about baseball every time you chose to respond to anything anyone writes. You’re so insecure and mentally fragile and know so little about baseball that all you can do is lob insults at people who you don’t agree with.
BTW Ichiro actually did start out a prospect just not in this country. I’d tell you to ask him but no one with any amount of knowledge about the sport of baseball would let you within ten feet of them let alone speak to them directly.
rhswanzey
Does it tell you anything that Renfroe was traded again this winter for what would seem to be some underwhelming prospects?
Maybe his perceived value is lower than where front offices value him.
baseballteam
Would Marlins take Dalbec for Rojas?
AL34
You are going to be lucky to get a bag of balls for Dalbac. He was overrated as a prospect and is way too streaky and tanked last year.
formerlyz
As I said a few months ago, even the rumored stuff the Marlins have been involved in would at best be very questionable decision making, but are all likely true b/c they fit patterns of the Marlins so well. Here we have another guy they were interested in drafting, so they look into swapping a legit arm for him 1 for 1…
This organization has to fundamentally change
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Highly doubt Bloom will trade Casas.
Cooperdooper7
Marlins should be interested in Dalbec…. he would get every day at bats and hit around .240 with 25 -30 HRS. If the Sox were to make a trade with the Marlins for him…. they should be able to get a decent SP prospect…. if they included Ceddanne Raphaela, Dalbec Nick Yorke, maybe they could get Pablo Lopez and Xavier Edwards in return….. got no interest in Rojas… they could just sign Iglesias… same player basically.
Bruin1012
I could actually see a Duran and Dalbec for Edwards trade that seems about right.
PulledaBloom
Bruin1012 – Evaluating players is in the eye of the trader but I have a question about the Duran and Dalbec for Edwards.
From a fantasy perspective, this seems like a normal trade offer. One team gets what they want and need and the other team gets two guys the first team didn’t really want all that much.
So, I don’t disagree with the equity I simply question their motivation to do it.
Bruin1012
Acell I actually look at Binelas and Kavadas very similarly both hit the crap out of the ball both strike out a lot both walk a lot. I would say Kavadas has a better eye but if you take away Binelas comically low babip for someone that hits the ball as hard as he does they have very similar numbers.
Bobby smac9
If Dalbec could have that kind of production, the sox would keep him.
MarlinsFanBase
This is interesting, but in the category of…I’ll believe Kim Ng is doing something when she does it.
As for the possibility of this trade, has anyone thought about that it could also include Garrett Cooper? Perhaps an expanded trade that has one of the Marlins SPs, Garrett Cooper and either Wendle or Rojas. Then on the Sox side, Casas and pieces that correlate to a value that Ng wants back.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
It doesn’t seem Ng has accomplished much of anything yet in her job. I would say the highlight so far is getting Segura to join the club at a hometown discount.
baseballteam
Ng doesn’t have accomplish anything.
MarlinsFanBase
Exactly, Kim Ng has not done much since last offseason. She napped through the trade deadline and the Winter Meetings. She’s made sure to have interviews and do other self=promoting efforts…but not much in 2022 through today for the job she was hired to do
BStrowman
Are we sure less isn’t more with Ng?
She made a lot of horrible moves last offseason. Every signing. The Scott/Sulser & Wendle deal.
JoeBrady
From a RS perspective, I am hoping that Ng feels the pressure to do something. When that happens, usually bad things follow. Then it becomes like dealing with Preller where he feels compelled to make a move.
That said, Ng is in both a good and bad position. No one has anywhere near the pitching depth she has, so she has plenty of trade fodder. However, that also makes her vulnerable because everyone knows she has to move pitching for hitting.
MarlinsFanBase
Sadly, Ng has placed herself in this pressure situation. She was previously able to function as the GM without the pressure because, even with her ups and downs in transactions, the fan base and local media was being patient with her. However, when she dropped the ball at the trade deadline without moving guys that the fan base and local media felt were no-brainers and easily movable to clear space for the young players, but all she did was that one trade with the Blue Jays, the questions began. Then when many of the pieces that should’ve been moved at their leveled off or highest value ever, all started to decline in value shortly after, the trouble began for her. It started to boil over when, several weeks after the trade deadline, she released one of the players for nothing (Jesus Aguilar) in order to clear space for one of the young players we needed to look at with more playing time. Then, after she talked a big game from that point on about the many things she would do in the offseason and Winter Meetings, she basically showed up to the Winter Meetings to do nothing for the team, but made sure that she gave a speech in the opening ceremony, casted her no-brainer vote for Fred McGriff, and made every interview with MLB Network and every other network that asked for an interview. That’s what she built for herself. And it looks like the bashing from the fan base all over, and some of the local media making statements questioning or bashing her, she seems to be hearing it as the Jean Segura move looks like a ‘silence the fans and media’ move…and she hasn’t been seen much publicly since the Winter Meetings. A good portion of the criticism of her has been about her time spent getting out in the public for appearances, etc. but nothing for the team.
But I’m hoping she won’t make a pressure move, but it looks like she may because the pressure is mounting…and it has been all her doing.
As for the advantage everyone has with knowing her hand, while that is true, but again, a lot of that is amplified by the fact that she has placed herself in a position in which she can’t show up to Spring Training without making a move for a bat and a legit Closer.
She napped all season, through the trade deadline, and the Winter Meetings. Now she’s paying the price for what looks like a lot of procrastination that she now is feeling the heat for as she’s realizing real fast that it gets late real fast in this game when you’re not doing your job.
rabidrabbit
At least it all shows the Marlins are setting their sights high. I like that, if I was a Marlins fan:)
bwmiller
Marlins have three or four starters that they could trade, and still have a nice five man rotation.
If I had to rank the Marlins starters, I’d rank them like this:
Alcantara (FA ’28 / 5yrs control)
Perez (rookie)
Sanchez (rookie)
Cabrera (FA’ 29 / 6yrs control)
Luzardo (FA’ 27 / 4yrs. control)
Meyer (rookie)
Eder (rookie)
Fulton (rookie)
Lopez (FA ’25 / 2yrs control)
Garrett (FA’ 29 / 6yrs control)
Rogers (FA’ 27 / 4yrs control)
and Roger’s I think he was rookie of the year runner up in ’21.
That is 11 starting pitchers all will be MLB ready in ’23 or ’24 – when you talk about trades, the Marlins have the pitching to get almost any player / prospect they would like to acquire, in my opinion.
Yankee Clipper
This is an excellent point, Miller. The Marlins could address many of their needs without going to FA & spending & they have the depth to maintain a good pitching staff post-trades.
I think one of their biggest challenges is Kim Ng. That’s not meant to disparage her, but she is a career-long Cashman shadow, therefore she has a tendency to default to winning each trade, imho, like Cashman.
Admittedly, I’ve only observed a few trade stories involving her, but she patterned her trades in a Cashman-like model in those few trade observations. It’s why the Yankees-Marlins trade imploded. Like Cashman, she needs to step outside of winning the trade and just focus on improving her team thru the trade.
bwmiller
I read a report of the top 150 SP prospects in MLB — Perez, Sanchez, Cabrera, Meyer, Eder, and Fulton were all in the top 50.
bwmiller
Haven’t read any updates on Sixto’s health or his recovery from the shoulder surgery, but if he has it like he did before the injuries, he’ll be a solid addition to the Marlins rotation – the 100 MPH heater is nice.
JoeBrady
Perez, Sanchez, Cabrera, Meyer, Eder, and Fulton were all in the top 50.
====================
That’s plain old-fashioned insane. I don’t know anything about Eder, and Fulton, and Sixto is a big injury concern, But even without those three, that leaves you with 8 valuable trade assets.
bwmiller
Sixto Sanchez had a shoulder tear and most recently a bursectomy, hasnt been back to full health and full strength since the first surgery, it will be an interesting case for sure, to see if he can make a full recovery.
Carlos Rodon had nagging shoulder issues for a number of years, had a bursectomy, and he is back to 96-97 with the fastball.
Sixto could make a full recovery, whether or not he is popping the gun at 100 again is yet to be seen, likelihood is that he loses a little on the fastball.
He was exciting to watch, hoping for a full recovery.
JoeBrady
Cabrera (FA’ 29 / 6yrs control)
Garrett (FA’ 29 / 6yrs control)
============================
That’s fracking genius. While I thought the signings of Soler and Garcia were egregious, Ng scores some big points here. I assumed you were wrong, since they’ve been in the league 5 years between them. But you are right; they both have 6 years of control.
Both have an identical 168 days of service, when 172 qualifies as a full year. That’s a huge advantage in a trade. Makes the idea of Casas for these two a fairly attractive proposition.
Mattmang23
Don’t you dare, Chaim
BStrowman
Pretty crazy to have Sixto that high at this point.
Pablo Lopez is way too low too. He’s actually proven at the big league level. He’s also the one that needs to be traded because of the lack of control. This marlins team isn’t going anywhere and is wasting an asset
Habeto
As a Marlins fan, why would the Red Sox trade Casas? He looks like a solid option at 1B and even if Coop is included in the potential return, that looks like a bad trade for the Red Sox.
Don’t get me wrong, I would love a Casas for Coop+Wendle/Rojas+Pablo/Trevor trade, but if I’m the Red Sox, I don’t see it happening.
PulledaBloom
There is so much wrong with this story. First, Bloom has two players he must champion in an attempt to save his job.1-Mayer 2-Yorke. They play SS and 2B.
Why get Wendle and Rojas knowing these two are on their way to Boston soon? It makes no sense so either the article is misdirection by Bloom or he’s on his way to doing yet another bad trade!!
The priority right now should be to slot a future line-up so the Red Sox fans can see a game plan that can be followed and cheered for.
C – No plan
1B – Casas (keep Dalbec as competition)
2B – Yorke
SS – Mayer
3B – TBD (need to trade Devers for OF)
LF – No plan
CF – No plan Rafaela (21) was league average at AA so doesn’t project well
RF – No plan
DH – Yoshida
SP 1 – Sale
SP 2 – Houck
SP 3 – Whitlock
SP 4 – Bello
SP 5 – Pivetta
SP 6 – Crawford
SP 7 – Mata
SP 8 – Seabold
SP 9 – Winchowski
We have lots of pitchers that need opportunities to jump to the next level but we have nothing in the outfield to be excited about and if Mayer and Yorke are busts then a guy like Dombrowski will be needed to repair the destruction levied by Bloom.
Yankee Clipper
This is a really good breakdown of the Red Sox roster & positional planning. I don’t know enough about their full farm to attest to its accuracy, so I’ll assume it’s correct, but it certainly paints a very clear picture of a directionless organization at the beginning stages of a necessary rebuild, imo.
It also seems to validate what appears to be an overall subpar performance thus far by Bloom and/or ownership/FO personnel.
I know the Red Sox challenged for the pennant in 2021, but that seemed to have been fueled by the core of players developed/acquired prior to Bloom’s tenure, most of whom are now gone. This is going to be a deep hole to dig out of *if they don’t spend to correct their deficiencies.*
That said, Mayer seems to be a legit blue chipper, so at least there’s that. And, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment about the trade posited in the article.
JoeBrady
why would the Red Sox trade Casas?
==============================
It’s a matter of matchups. I doubt we are looking to move him, but the fact of the matter is that Miami has 8 SPs (both MLB and minors) that they could move tomorrow. And the RS have Bello, Whitlock, and Houck, and a couple of semi-prospects. We need pitching, and you guys have it in abundance.
We also have some fringy prospects that will be headed for 1st, should they continue to develop.
Moneyballer
Boston should get a huge return if they deal Casas. I don’t understand why they would even make him available but everyone has a price. Casas can easily replace and surpass the dud season JD Martinez turned in last year. If he adjusts well to major league pitching Casas could be a long term answer in that lineup. You don’t just give that away!
Amanda17
the red sox arent in a ‘directionless rebuild’ they are a team on the verge of being sold by an ownership group that has won 4 ws that no longer cares or is built into this franchise, do you REALLY think not resigning our 2 best players was an accident, they are no longer offering long term deals because the team is going to be sold to younger more head strong owners who wont spend as much but will make more marginal deals, theirs no steve cohen coming to save us, also,
casas is nothing more than a swing and miss average player who will never be much, he strikes out ALOT and doesnt hit home runs, i feel like its my job to educate stupid people that basically only see a players name but not what he actually does, ask yourselves if he was any good, why was he brought up in september and not april? its about as plain as you can see, if he brings a good return, trade him in a HEARTBEAT, we really dont need him.
JoeBrady
do you REALLY think not resigning our 2 best players was an accident,
============================
Do you REALLY think not signing Bogaerts to a $280M/11 contract is going to impact the value of a $4B organization?
For extra credit, do you think the the FSG just bought the Penguins for their sports empire, and are now going to sell the crown jewel? If he wanted to get out of the business, sure, anyone might want to cash in. But I seriously doubt that Henry wants to pick up smaller pieces if he is getting out of the industry.
Bruin1012
Amanda, you can certainly be right about ownership. I think what has transpired since 2018 can lead one to believe that ownership is getting ready to sell that is a reasonable assumption. I’m not going to speculate on that because I really have no idea I don’t have an in with ownership so at this point it’s only speculation. I do, however, I think you are completely wrong on your statement about Casas and your job of educating stupid people about Casas.
Let me start by saying my analysis of Triston Casas is not born out of looking at some numbers on a website but rather it’s by watching 100’s of minor league at bats. The first thing I noticed about Casas was the first or second at bat I watched he fell behind two strikes in the count he then widened his stance and didn’t take a stride as I continued to watch him this happened all the time. I realized this guy has a true two strike approach. He doesn’t swing for the fences on all pitches like most players nowadays. The second thing I noticed is this guy is a big guy very strong yet he doesn’t sell out to get to his power he uses the whole field it’s almost like when he hits home runs it’s by accident. I realized the guy had a true process at the plate he wasn’t just up there to mash he was thoughtful on his pitch selection he rarely swung at bad pitches. It was at this time that I realized how poor the balls and strikes called in the minor leagues he had a far better idea of the strike zone then the umpires and he tended to strike out quite a bit looking at pitches that were clearly outside the strike zone. The more I watched this guy I am convinced he is going to be a really good hitter. I am telling you this because I don’t want you to think I heard the name Casas and just said this guy must be good. These are just a few things I have noticed about this kid I think he has a chance to be special.
I will admit we haven’t seen Casas against big league pitching all that much and only time will tell if he’s more Lars Anderson or more Joey Votto. He certainly has things to work on I have watched him struggle against lefties, he can be a bit passive at the plate, he like many big lefties struggles on an up and in quality fastball he’s likely to face in the big leagues. I’m just trying to educate you Amanda on why I think he’s going to be at least a good and possibly an excellent big league hitter. I hope this educates you a bit Amanda from someone who’s actually watched 100’s of at bats of his. If you disagree by all means support your statement that he strikes out a lot and he doesn’t hit home runs with facts and your experience watching his at bats.
JoeBrady
If you disagree by all means support your statement that he strikes out a lot and he doesn’t hit home runs with facts
=============================
That rarely happens in here. I’d love to Amanda’s response, but I am certainly not expecting one.
But thanks for your detailed analysis.
Goose
The Red Sox can’t even lock up their 26 year old star 3B, why would they trade for ANYONE who is going to be a free agent in the next few years. I suspect the Red Sox are going to be sold, which explains why they have been dumping any big or potentially big long term contracts for young players. There was a rumor that came out they are in talks to deal Devers now.
Lets say this is on the level and they are really trying to compete. The only way the Red Sox move Casas is in a package with other good prospects to get one of the Marlins young pitchers that has some control. Casas has been a hot prospect since the last World Baseball Classic. By himself you are not getting this deal going. The Marlins are looking for young middle infielders which the Red Sox do have. I can see a 3 or 4 for 1 for Lopez or Rogers. Hand down a larger and sexier package if by some miracle the Marlins are in love and add Alcantra.
If I had to bet the Red Sox are targeting Lopez and Rojas.
Old York
So, when does this trade happen?
Rhyde1990
Red Sox receive- Jazz Chisholm, Pablo Lopez, Jorge Soler
Marlins receive- Triston Casas, Tanner Houck, #3 Ceddanne Rafaela, #15 Brainer Bonaci
Red Sox get a 2B/SS for future, #2 for rotation, but also have to take bad contract of Soler. Marlins get package of young offensive players, and Tanner Houck to replace Lopez in rotation.
Mjm117
@Rhyde1990 – Marlins would need to include Sandy if the Sox are sending back the future HOF’er in Casas.
Along with at least half the money owed to Soler. If not, they can add Eury instead of Soler.
Eury, Sandy, and Jazz for casas. Win/win for both teams.
cuban363566
So do all Red Sox fans lack any semblance of reading comprehension, or is it just the ones that happen to comment on MLBtr?
The entire point of the Marlins trying to trade from their starting pitching depth it’s to acquire cost controlled hitters that can go into their lineup this year, which is why they are inquiring about Casas. get somehow you have one comment her suggesting they trade Edward Cabrera and the recently acquired Xavier Edwards for two guys who are years away and the 26 year-old back of the rotation arm while not getting Casas.
Even dumber still is this dip$h1t suggestion that has them giving up their best hitter who they are looking to surround with someone like Casas, one of those pitchers and Soler who they are hoping rebounds in exchange for a pitcher they don’t need, a couple guys who are years away and Casas who will no longer have protection in the liner.
JoeBrady
Not for nothing, but you wrote that rant to say that the Marlins are interested in getting help for 2023. Which is all true. But the article also mentioned:
“The Marlins are also potentially interested in Ceddanne Rafaela, another highly-touted Boston prospect ”
The writer mentioned “potentially” so I assume they made it up. But even if he made it up, that doesn’t mean it cannot be discussed. In addition, I assume that the Marlins are fully capable of having two different discussions at the same time. They could easily be interested in Ceddanne for a smaller piece, while maybe being interested in Casas, Reynolds, etc. for a larger, more immediate piece.
From a RS perspective, I’d like Chisholm for more short-term help. But I can also simultaneously discuss obtaining a piece like Meyer.
In other words, your concern about what should and shouldn’t be discussed, imho, is unfounded.
cuban363566
It actually says “another prospect of potential interest” which suggests it is merely writer speculation, not only that, but they go on to explain why he wouldnt be of interest to the Marlins because he is a year away at least and the Marlins want lineup help right now.
My concern isnt actually an unfounded concern, its more based on annoyance with RS fans who keep proposing absolutely ridiculous trades where they get what they want the RS to get while proposing a “fair trade” that completely ignores what the Marlins are trying to do. For instance, just 3-4 days ago “redsox123” proposed Chisholm/Rojas and pitching for Devers. An amazing trade suggestion considering marlins are looking for COST CONTROLLABLE players and Devers is a soon to be free agent that if the RS cant re-sign him, the Marlins sure as hell cant/wont.
JoeBrady
its more based on annoyance with RS fans who keep proposing absolutely ridiculous trades
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Fair enough, but this is true for some fans of every team. I saw a WS fan proposing Giolito & Grandal for Grisham, Kim and two other players.
Chris from NJ
Its a sad state of affairs down there in Miami. Total sh## show with ownership and the front office. No wonder Jeter ran. They’ll never do the right things to be a consistent winner. I’m thinking in a year or 2 Alcantara will be traded and the Marlins will be back at square one. It’s just the Marlins cycle. Trade away every star you develop for nothing in return.
JoeBrady
Trade away every star you develop for nothing in return.
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Interesting that you would post something about Alcantara, who they acquired in a trade. Is that what you meant by ‘nothing in return’?
Mjm117
Along with another pitcher in Gallen whom they trades for Jazz.
madmc44
I have learned a lot about minor-league prospects today.
When the dealing takes place though and it involves Bloom, you have to ask: “what would the Rays do?”
Are any of these players better than Franco? Would you give Casas a $100 M contract to lock him up?
See what Casas does after the ’23 season. If I could get a, potentially good, 1-5 starting pitcher, I would trade Casas; 1B is covered sufficiently for the Sox.
Chris from NJ
You mean the salary dump they luckily hit on? They were dumping Ozuna who at the time was top outfielder. They got lucky they hit on a prospect while they were doing what they do :trading away the team. Ozuna was too expensive Alcantara wasn’t a prospect they really wanted. Pure luck.
Mjm117
They were also lucky in trading for Pablo Lopez and Jazz Chisolm. Pure luck.
JoeBrady
Is this one of those “luck when it works out and stupidity when it doesn’t” POVs? A surprising amount of people use this type of rationale, but it doesn’t make sense, imo.
The Marlins basically traded Ozuna & Yelich for Gallen and Alcantara.who finished 1st and 5th in the Cy Young voting last year. It’s a great return, even if you want to consider it “luck”.
Chris from NJ
5 season’s ago the Marlins were on the rise with a 2nd place finish. Instead of turning one of their prized outfielders into the ace they needed. They decided to trade all three. None of those prospects regardless of what they are doing today help them win the next season. That is my point about the Marlins. They even traded a Gallen too for that matter granted for Jazz but he’s not a Marlin. I doubt Alcantara will be for long.
JoeBrady
They even traded a Gallen too for that matter granted for Jazz but he’s not a Marlin.
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It was in every commentary, at that time, that Fish needed a SS prospect a lot more than a pitching prospect. AZ got 11.1 bWAR out of Gallen, but with only 2 seasons left, while the Fish got 4.9 bWAR out of Jazz, but with 4 seasons left. It seems like the Marlins are better off with Jazz, than another good SP (in addition to the dozen they already have).
kingbum
You got to trade Casas. Look a first baseman is easier to come by than a strong middle of the rotation pitcher. When Nick Pivetta is the workhorse of the rotation you really do got question marks. Get some certainty and get a proven arm and let the Marlins have Casas. Casas does well he’d be on the trade market available again in a couple years because the Marlins won’t be able to afford him…..
AL34
I don’t think they will trade Casas but nothing Bloom does shocks me. Unfortunately I do not have confidence in him like I did with Dombroski who was not afraid to pull the trigger on a trade involving younger players. Boston would have been better with him as the GM than whatever Bloom’s title is. I think with Bloom, Henry brought into this Bill James theory which is interesting for a low budget team like Tampa Bay. Boston is a major market and draws enough In revenue, tv contracts, and fan base that they do not have be low budget bottom basement market feeders. I know Sale’s disaster of a contract is not Bloom’s fault but signing injured players like Paxton and injury prone Kluber are not great choices nor are either of them dependable. I don’t know what Sale is going to give you because he has almost been hurt for 4 years now. I do not have a warm feeling about this rotation at all. The trade Bloom made for Renfro for JBJ weee terrible. Lettind Shwarber go free agentbwhrn his 40 homeruns coukd have helped. you could have slid him into the DH spot after Martinez left. Hisvtrades at tge deadline lasr year were puzzling at best. Henry is starting to hear it from the fan base with boos at hockey games and with another bad year, Chaim Bloom will be shown the door.
JoeBrady
Boston would have been better with him as the GM than whatever Bloom’s title is.
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Not that it means much, but Bloom has a better record over the past two years than DD.
AL34
Someone earlier brought up the Jeff Bagwell trade to Houston for Larry Anderson back in 1990. Houston actually wanted a left handed pitcher named Scott Taylor and the Red Sox steered them to Jeff Bagwell. Scott Taylor never made it except for a few innings over a few years and an high ERA and for some reason the Red Sox valued him more.
Taylor pitched a total of 25.2 innings in 20 major league games, striking out 15 batters. He had a career ERA of 6.31, allowing five homeruns.