The Mariners made the postseason in 2022, breaking the longest active drought in the majors as they hadn’t been to the postseason since 2001. Many expected the club to be extremely active this offseason in order to keep the good times going but they have been fairly quiet so far, making a few trades while their only free agent signing has been reliever Trevor Gott, who secured a modest $1.2MM guarantee. Ryan Divish of The Seattle Times recently took a look at the club’s offseason and reports that president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto and general manager Justin Hollander might not have as much money to work with as had been expected.
It’s not as though the Mariners have been totally inactive. Their primary moves have been on the trade front, as they acquired Teoscar Hernández from the Blue Jays and Kolten Wong from the Brewers. Put together, the club’s various moves have put their payroll at $135MM, per Roster Resource. That’s a notable jump from last year’s $104MM Opening Day figure, per Cot’s Baseball Contracts, but it’s still well shy of the club’s previous competitive window. From 2016 through 2019, the Mariners opened the season between $143MM and $158MM. Given a few years of inflation and some extra league revenues coming into play since then, it was thought by some that Seattle could approach and even go beyond those previous spending levels. The reporting from Divish indicates they will approach that range in the future but it doesn’t seem like this will be the winter.
That would explain the seeming lack of aggression from the team, but it’s surely frustrating for the fans who hoped that the 2022 success would lead to some kind of splash this winter. Instead, many of the big splashes have been happening around them in the division. The reigning World Series champion Astros have signed José Abreu while re-signing Michael Brantley and Rafael Montero. The Rangers completely overhauled their rotation by signing Jacob deGrom, Andrew Heaney and Nathan Eovaldi, in addition to re-signing Martín Pérez and acquiring Jake Odorizzi. The Angels have signed Tyler Anderson, Brandon Drury and Carlos Estévez while trading for Hunter Renfroe and Gio Urshela.
There’s still about six weeks until Spring Training begins, meaning there’s time for the club to pull something out of their sleeve. But it seems like they believe in their incumbent players enough to have mostly steered clear of this offseason’s free agent spending frenzy. Most of the top free agents are already attached to new teams at this point, with Jurickson Profar and Michael Wacha among the top names still out there.
Hernández and Wong will effectively replace Mitch Haniger and Adam Frazier, two of the club’s most significant free agent departures alongside Carlos Santana. Barring some huge trade coming together in the next few weeks, it seems the Mariners will go into 2023 with a fairly similar roster to the one they had in 2022. It’s possible they could see improvement from within, as young players like Julio Rodríguez, Logan Gilbert and George Kirby could take steps forward in their development. A full season of Luis Castillo, acquired at last year’s trade deadline, will surely be a boon as well. The Hernández/Wong duo could certainly outproduce Haniger/Frazier, but it doesn’t look like any eight-figure free agent deals will be part of their additions. Whether that faith in the core is justified or not will be determined as the upcoming season plays out. Then again, Dipoto has a reputation for being the most trade-happy executive in the sport and could still shake things up in the next few weeks.
I still think the Mariners are done, at least for now.
Maybe as the season progresses they will see some more needs, but then that is why teams are allowed to keep working on things until the trade deadline.
I still think there is no way that at least one of gonzo or flexin are not traded before spring training.
The Mariners will never not win the division, ever.
Yeah, but maybe there’s a chance they might not never won’t win it, perhaps?
. . . And, I believe they can beat any time just as they are right now.
So, we’ll see. Looking foreard to a great season!
Now cut that out Fred, we want more action. Try not in making inflammatory remarks .
It’s not frustrating at all. Ive been an Ms fan since iI was listening to Niehaus while i was crapping my pants(im 48). Half of my life I have seen them jumpin the gun.. Lets do it right. Load the roster but dont trash the farm. Im down with Jerry’s approach
What farm!? They graduated Kirby, Gilbert, Raleigh, Julio, and it’s not looking good for other key pieces they had hoped would make up the core, such as Kelenic and White.
They have a few promising arms in the upper-minors, but pitching really isn’t the problem. What they don’t have is near-ready bats that can address the most glaring holes.
Guys like Ford, Young, and Gonzalez are promising, but they’re several years out. How much longer do you think they can wait?
Good points and I get it. I don’t want to sound like a Dipoto apologist but I don’t agree with you completely that there are any major huge glaring holes in the line up. Would I be more comfortable with a stud left fielder and an upgrade at DH, sure, but word on the street is a RH bat is being pursued. We’ll see. JD didn’t trade for Winker and Suarez until March of last year so he’s still got plenty of time to swing something. In regards to Marco and Flexen, I’m kind of hoping the M’s hold onto them both for pitching insurance. The perfect scenario now, imo, would be flip one or both down the stretch assuming the M’s are in the hunt down the stretch or pick up a prospect or two if they are out of it. Anyway, I’d argue that even as it stands now, the opening day roster is a bit better on paper than last year’s opening day squad. The big question will be whether or not the Angels and Rangers have done more to streamroll past the Mariners.
The most glaring holes–and there are several holes–are left field and DH. A LHRP is needed as well.
There isn’t room to carry Gonzales, Flexen, and get a LHRP. It’s possible they’ll move Marco or Flexen to the BP, but that doesn’t seem likely.
The talk about a RHH had to do with a worst-case scenario in which Kelenic or Trammell is the opening day left fielder. I don’t think that’s the preferred plan, but pickings are slim.
Angels just did what the Angels do and spent dumb money. I doubt you see any improvement from them as their pitching will be a disaster again.
@ArthurDent And what would be so wrong with being a Dipoto apologist ??? In fact, I don’t think you could pick a much better GM/PBO to be an apologist for. The guy only took a last place team loaded with aging expensive players and a barren farm system and turned it in 2.5 years into a back-to-back 90 win team with exciting young players and lots of hope for the future. Compared to these 5 to 7 year :”rebuilds” we are seeing with some teams i.e. the Pirates, Tigers, Orioles, Royals, etc. which still aren’t even complete yet. So yeah I think anybody wanting to be a “Dipoto apologist” is completely in the clear and without shame.
I didn’t mean “apologist” as a slam. I just meant that I was trying to give my objective opinion about the current state of the roster. A lot of M’s fans are simply seeing red in regards to Dipoto not throwing huge sums of money around. In general, I don’t have a problem with how Dipito has been going about the rebuild. I also always try to keep in mind that I don’t know what I don’t know. This article on the budget for example. People will read into it what they want but we don’t know what the budgetary constraints actually are, if they exist, and what hoops Dipoto has to go thru to add payroll above what it is now. We also don’t know what players he has pursued and what the response was. I never see it put this way but I believe Dipoto places a lot of value on having control and flexibity for how he manages the roster. Take the Wong trade for example – I would have preferred Torres. For the sake of argument let’s say he could have pulled the trigger on either player. He went with one year commitment of Wong. Why? I’’m assuming a big part of it is flexibility. If he works out and meshes with the club you can always try for an extension. If he’s a bust you can let him walk. Regardless, he’s on a contract year so one might assume he’ll give his best effort. Anyway, yes, I like the direction the club is headed. Lots of positives. I’ll add for the heck of it that I don’t subscribe to the all or nothing philosophy of a lot of sports fans that the only measure of success is a trip to the world series and everything else is a complete and utter failure. I like baseball – my enjoyment of following the sport does not depend solely on a team I watch having to win. That being said, if I’m on the field myself, that’s a different story.
They are going to trade those current pieces or some iteration of those guys for an improvement or two for the team. Axel Sanchez was destroying A-ball better than Edwin Arroyo at only 8 months older. He’s a borderline Top 100 prospect going into 2023, but he’ll have to maintain his breakout in 2023 and the pundits will need to pay attention. However, the numbers are legit!
The Mariners also have a ton of guys being under-appreciated. Jonathan Clase should be a Top 100 prospect with double-digit homers and 55 SBs at 20-21 years old. Clase has 50 hit, 50 power, 70 speed, 65 fielding, 65 arm. He could reach to Top 50 status by the trade deadline.
Harry Ford should be Top 30 based on the hype given catchers. Then add in Young at SS, plus 3 Top 30 picks that in most years are equal to Top 15 talent due to the depth of talent in 2023. Don’t forget two top arms and the jewel of the off-season SS Felnin Celesten!
Many teams would prefer five or six (or 10) years of Julio Rodriguez, George Kirby, Logan Gilbert and Cal Raleigh over a highly ranked farm system.
Over the last two years the Mariners have graduated those four homegrown prospects, who in 2022 combined for 15.7 fWAR. Seattle also graduated the productive Matt Brash and Andres Munoz, who were acquired via trade and who remain under team control for six seasons.
The Mariners will have an opportunity to replenish the farm system with three of the top 30 picks in the 2023 draft and the projected signing this month of Felnin Celesten, the second-ranked international prospect.
“Load the roster but don’t trash the farm.”??? That’s what they’re primed to do if they want gk compete with Houston. They still need offensive upgrades. Any real upgrade is going to gut your farm even more.
How does one load up a roster without trashing the farm.? Free agency.
It’s so easy to say ‘draft, develop, trade’, but the reality is that Seattle hasn’t proven they can develop hitters. Julio is a generational talent. Other than him, only Cal has proven productive out of the current developmental system. Everyone else came from other systems.
This was the year to ‘augment’ the roster through free agency if here ever was a year to do so.
France, Haniger, Suarez, Crawford, Kelenic etc. came from trades. draft develop trade……in Jerry We Trust
The point is that they’ve done exactly that…and they’re short.
@Stevil Augment thru free agency with whom? One of the $300 million dollar shortstops?? We can see where those contracts are heading. There were no game changers in this round of free agency to make it worth our while to invest in with the way those contracts exploded into the stratosphere. The Mariners dodged all the bullets and didn’t succumb to free agency spending hysteria and they should be applauded for it. Also means more money for Ohtani next off-season.
By extending players that are good and limiting the need to add to the roster with each passing year.
Case in point, CF in Seattle is good for two decades. Extend Raleigh for six years with a couple options and catcher is set until 2030.
Add Reynolds through trade and extend him for 8 years plus a couple options to lock him in for the forseeable future and LF or RF is good until 2030.
Add Devers in a trade and empty the farm system and extend him for 10 years. Now you have 3B covered through 2030+. That means you only have 5 positions to develop over the next 10 years and thats if you dont stumble upon other long-term pieces.
As is, they have 4/5 of their rotation signed or under contract for the next half decade. Munoz is signed for 6 more years and id they sign Brash he’d be under contract for another 6 years as well.
Each extension is one less player needed to be developed. What happens when the Mariners trade enough pieces to acquire Devers and Reynolds? You sign Celesten, the top SS in the international free agent window since 2010 or before and 3 1st round picks in 2023.
Devers isn’t going to extend with anybody. He wants to be a free agent and gather his share of the stupid money being thrown around. The M’s will attempt to lure Shohei up here next offseason with stupid money.
Gleyber Torres in that Mariner line-up sure makes it look a lot sexier.
Not really. He doesn’t have a spot in that lineup, as the Mariners probably don’t want to commit to a DH
@Average- A dh? Your buggin’ kid! Gleyber is no dh! Lol. So much for catching the Trashtro’s. Not happening. Smh
That’s kind of my point. If the Mariners trade for Torres, someone doesn’t have a spot in the lineup and would have to DH
They went out and traded for kolten Wong
Eliminates the need for Torres.
They can just go sigh jurickson profar to be a switch hitting super utility at 3b 2b 1b corner of which adds more versatility and depth than Torres would.
@Average- I really feel trading for Torres only helps the Mariners chances of catching Houston in the AL West sooner then later. As Yankee fan’s that’s what all of us are truthfully hoping for. Let’s Go M’s!!!
Torres plays infield
We have a great starting defensive infield already. One of the best in the AL.
Torres doesn’t fit in the sense that we’re not going to give up any capital to trade for a guy who plays a position that we already have 500 abs plugged into.
And, he’s not a big enough bat to warrant a “trade for him anyway” scenario. Sorry Yankee fans. That 2019 was great for a lot of players….Geno hit 49 that year!
Torres mashes in that ballpark and has a nice bat for a 2b. They really should just keep him. I know they have the 2 kids coming up and IKF and DJ, no shortage on infielders but honestly, I think he’s their guy.
@Jung- nobody’s rooting harder then me for Seattle to beat on Houston this season. Torres will only help the Mariners chances to do so.
@CaptainJ; now c’mon, that’s not the way you speak to your daddy
@coupo- has daddy stopped cheating on mommy, to win??? If so it’s about time!!! Lol.
@Captain J; “Mommy!! Daddy took all the brooms to his 2nd family! We’ve been swept clean!” lol
Have you seen Profar play any position other than LF. He is awful.
I think he was a better fit than Wong, but now? Probably not. And I don’t think NY was/is ready to move on from him. Not yet, anyway.
They can go get Carlos Correa when his 2nd Contract falls through!
We’ll see about the M’s. Maybe Kelenic actually breaks through this season. He’s only 23 years old. The deadline will be there to add to whatever deficiency they have. Rentals won’t be terribly expensive at that point.
A large part of the frustration comes from moving the goal posts.
At the time of the rebuild, fans were told that the money saved would be used to ‘pay it forward’ (that term was literally used) once the team was ready to contend. Now, through Jerry Dipoto, ownership is suggesting they have spent that money through extensions and the Ray contract.
That is a load of, well, you know.
Spreading out individual contracts 5-13 years isn’t the same as spending in a single-season, and the cheaper they make their organization appear, the harder it will be to attract free agents & induce extensions moving forward. That’s problematic.
They’re not only not spending and well below previous highs, they’re a team with holes that will have more significant holes a year from now, all the while they rack in enormous profits from both significant increases in attendance and ROOT Sports NW. Even if you just look at Seattle’s MLB revenue, using 2021 numbers (2022’s aren’t available yet) and adjust for attendance figures alone, their gross revenue was at least 370m. Most teams spend around 50% on payroll.
Seattle is nowhere near that, nowhere near being in danger of going into the red, and the future commitments excuse is just nonsense. Ray may opt out after 2024, and even if he stays, his contract along with Crawford’s expires after 2026. Only Luis and Julio are under contract longer, and guys like Gilbert, Raleigh, and Kirby will be in their first & second arbitration-eligible years respectively.
Fans should be upset. Ownership isn’t delivering on their promises. They appear hopeful that fans are complacent and happy with having made it to the postseason, but the goal was never supposed to be just making the postseason. It was/is supposed to be a sustainable World Series contender.
Let me remind everyone that Seattle is the only team to have never even been there. And with ownership groups like they’ve had, it’s no wonder they haven’t. It’s a 46-year-old streak. To come this close and pull up is beyond maddening, and the fact that they may have actually peaked isn’t any more comforting.
I 100% agree stevil a lot of these mid-market teams like to keep their fans chasing the rabbit like a greyhound and just keep it far enough away to not catch the prize then you keep the fans coming back for more and more with the wait until next year mantra and then once you start winning championships things start to get very expensive and expectations grow exponentially…I think the Mariners know that they will get the fans if theyre playoff material but I don’t know if they’re ever going to be world series champion material you have to have two or three superstars on your team to win a championship more often than not and outside of Julio I don’t see anyone on this roster that you can call a superstar
Exactly.
And the funny thing is that nobody was/is asking them exceed the luxury tax threshold or get even near that–and it’s not like they couldn’t afford that kind of dough. San Diego, as a comparative, isn’t likely going into the red despite currently projected to be penalized.
It’s easy to look at the individual contracts and simply say they were too expensive. I never argued that all four of the star SS free agents were great fits (I argued Turner and Correa were, plus outfielders like Nimmo and Pederson).
Some of these deals simply weren’t meant to be. Turner wasn’t coming to Seattle for any amount of cash, Pederson was offered and accepted the QO, Correa…well, 13 years and 350m was certainly excessive and who knows how his situation is going to play out.
But Seattle missed out on quite literally everyone signifcant. Profar might be the best bat left that would make a little sense, but as a regular, for a team aspiring for a World Series? Maybe as a fourth outfielder; someone to rotate through the lineup to give other players days off.
If they turn to trade, they would likely be further depleting a farm that just graduated virtually all of their most important prospects and wouldn’t have the inner-organizational near-ready/ready talent necessary for the sustainability that they said was a key part of the way they were rebuilding.
I’m reserving final judgement until we see what the opening day roster looks like, or likely looks like, but as of now, the excuses are just pouring fuel on the fire. They came into this offseason with perhaps the best opportunity this team has ever seen to finally get to a World Series, and by all appearances, they’ve botched it.
I’m not 100% sold on mortgaging the rest of the farm for Reynolds but we need to make some kind of move for left field I would like to see them make a deal for a guy like Santander from the Orioles we could trade them Flexen and maybe something else then that way that would give us another left hand of bat and everyday left fielder who’s going to hit 30 to 35 home runs and he wouldn’t cost much in terms of trade capital…
I would be thrilled if they were able to land Reynolds, but I don’t think that’s likely going to happen.
Contenders in real need of an outfielder have better chips. LAD, St. Louis, Texas….even Cleveland could put together a better package than Seattle, unless a third team was involved, or Pittsburgh is more interested in quantity than quality.
Seattle would probably have to part with a MLB starter. I don’t think they’d be willing to do that.
Definitely, the only way they could land Reynolds is probably to include Gilbert or Kirby in some kind of package. Not sure I’m okay with that.
It would be one thing to trade Kirby, for example, for a young, equally-talented fielder with the same amount of control. Seattle can develop pitching and has a few more promising arms in the upper-minors.
But for 3 years of Reynolds, who has only really had one big year and last year wasn’t it?
No thanks.
Are the players that were traded for Soto or Betts better than Gilbert or Kirby? NO. Those 2 pitchers are studs.
Of course Pitt would want Gilbert or Kirby. Seattle would say H*** NO! I wouldnt even include Gilbert or Kirby for Soto or Betts.
Pitt should look for 2-3 young players that they can plug in and give MLB playing time to. Unfortunatly Sea dosnt have any they are willing to trade; most are part of the core they are building around..
Well, well, well…. Who are we that think that we can question Dipoto and Hollander.
PASSAN, SALK, MOROSI, and MANY others are correct… those who think like this are SPOILED!!! Spoiled to the core!!! We have the audacity to believe we know better. We know how to better spend other people’s money.
Moreover, now that the drought is over, we actually believe it is our right to make the playoffs year after year after year…. SPOILED!!!!!!
Forever remember… they told us one thing, and then moved the goal posts… and then told us we are SPOILED!!!!
It seems the M’s could acquire Reynolds by sending Flexen or Gonzales and a prospect to a third team that needs a SP and has prospects to spare. How about it? The third team could send prospects to the Pirates. The M’s could send Kelenic, a prospect and their tradable extra first round pick to the Pirates, who could also send someone back to the third team. Seattle would thus give up Flexen or Gonzales, a draft pick, Kelenic, and a couple of prospects that might not necessarily have to be top-level like Ford or Hancock/Dollard/Miller. The Pirates would get Kelenic, a bunch of prospects and a nice draft pick. The third team would get a MLB SP, maybe a useful player from Pittsburgh, and maybe a prospect or two. Acquiring Reynolds without gutting the farm should be possible. Get a third team involved, Jerry! Maybe try the Rays?
I don’t understand why everybody wants Reynolds so badly. I think it’s because some experts keeps floating it around and you all keep biting. The guys had one plus season of the other years he’s been average. You guys act like this dude a world beater. For the record, yes, he is a nice player and Id like him in the lineup. I wouldn’t want to give anything anything even remotely close to what the Pirates are or were supposedly asking for. They want the farm for a player who doesn’t have a long track record.
Not once in the long history of baseball has a playoff caliber team that has won 90 games in two consecutive seasons been eliminated from a chance at the World Series in December or January. RELAX!!!
Gilbert and Kirby aren’t going anywhere
@Stevil Again, who do you think the Mariners should have signed ?? Brandon Nimmo…? He just got paid nearly 200 million dollars and dude has had exactly two healthy seasons in his entire life. You really think that’s a smart contract that will age well ?? Spending money frivolously just to spend it because you’re caught up in FOMO hysteria during the free agency signing frenzy is not a rational way to allocate resources. There was nobody worth their contracts that the Mariners should have signed.
No Stevil, but… how about …
1. giving QO to Haniger
2, Josh Bell
3. Willson Contreras as LF / 1B / 3rd C / DH – when HEALTHY, the dude rakes, and gets on base. Keep him healthy by playing the other positions a lot more than catcher
And NOW… how about locking up Cal Raliegh in January to a 8 year deal???? That should be easy… they have the money. I’m sure Scott Boras will be easy to deal with.
SPEND MONEY!!!
We have the benefit of hindsight now, but I think if they had offered Haniger the QO, there’s a good chance he would have accepted it and we may never have seen Teoscar acquired. Haniger’s market didn’t pick up until it was clear that Judge was returning to NY. I think Hernández is more likely to stay healthy, so I’m inclined to still say Seattle made the right decision on that. And good for Mitch. Had he rejected it, he probably wouldn’t have made as much given the loss of a pick that would’ve been involved. I don’t really care that Seattle didn’t get anything out of him leaving. He was still a key player in building the team that got them into the postseason.
Josh Bell never really fit Seattle. Bad defense, more of a DH, and he didn’t finish the season well. The surprise for me is that Seattle moved both Winker and Lewis. I thought one of those two (or both) would likely take most of Seattle’s DH PA’s. I wanted Pederson, but that wasn’t meant to be.
The player who fit the best, in my opinion, was Brandon Nimmo. I think he is one of the most underrated players in the game. He had a healthy 2022 and if Seattle used him primarily in LF and rotated him through the DH, there would have been less stress on his body, reducing the risk of injury. He ended up with one year and one million more than I had him pegged for. Brantley was almost in our plan. He could have been a great fourth outfielder/DH, replacing Winker/Lewis. Even Conforto made some sense as long as he wasn’t expected to handle LF full-time.
Contreras would only have really fit if Seattle had moved Murphy. I don’t think they had any interest in doing that. Murphy’s going to see a lot of PA’s from behind the plate when LHPs are on the mound and that’s pretty valuable.
Extending Cal is all but a lost cause. He’s a Boras client. He’ll very likely test free agency. The question for me is whether or not Seattle will trade him when he has one or two years of control left. Keep in mind Ford may be a viable option to replace him at that point. For the record, I really hope Cal doesn’t go anywhere for a long time. If he stays, it’s far more likely to come after having tested the market.
It’s funny, because I think a lot of people think I’m ticked about missing out on the SSs. I’m not. Turner clearly wasn’t coming to Seattle if he wasn’t interested in San Diego on a 342m deal (or whatever it allegedly was). Correa, same, with 13/350. The deal with the Mets was a little better, but that wasn’t cheap, either.
It’s the outfielders they could rotate where I think they really missed out. I’m not keen on the idea of a platoon with Kelenic or Trammell vs RHP and a RHH to face LHPs, but I still find it hard to believe that that’s the preferred plan.
We’ll have to wait and see how this plays out. I still wonder if change-of-scenery trades might make sense.
Cade Marlowe, starting LF by May.
The M’s FO is planning on using the same formula that worked last year at the C position… Rotate 3 guys for the first 6 weeks or so and send the one who is struggling the most to Tacoma.
It’s a hope & pray plan, but at least it should be good defensively.
You don’t have to like it, because the M’s FO didn’t ask you… and you are SPOILED!!!
There’s no room for a third catcher! It’s far more likely going to be Raleigh vs. RHPs and Murphy vs. LHPs.
Moore & Haggerty seem destined to cover the SS & 2B vs. LHPs and the final bench spot will probably go to an outfielder, or utility guy who can play both.
@Stevil, he’s saying they will rotate LF position between 3 players much like they rotated the C position at the start of last season. Not rotate 3 C this season as Raleigh obviously has proven to be an everyday player.
Thanks. That went right over my head. I read that too fast and responded even faster.
But I don’t think that’s the preferred plan, either. I think the fallback plan is more of a straight-forward platoon with Kelenic and a RHH to be named later.
That would leave room for one more bat. I refuse to believe it would be one of Trammell/White/Hummell.
Dude, take a break, read through the comments more carefully, then do a little research on some of the names cited.
This thread is getting out of control. My comment was directed at the ignorant SOB.
Thank you for clarifying my position properly and better than I
Sorry, Tacoma. I was thinking about what you said about Contreras and just assumed you were still talking about catchers. That was on me.
This reminds, somehow, that Seattle also missed out on Benintendi. Wouldn’t have been in my top-5 free agents, but still pretty solid.
I really hope we see a solid, regular left fielder brought in.
Jerry Dipoto is oddly good.
Disagree- he’s decent at trading, although anyone remember Pablo López was one of 4 guys he traded away for a RP Phelps! He’s lost as many as he’s won. And Dipoto can’t sign a free agent hitter if his life depended on it. So he’s not oddly good, he’s odd, and the white privilege shines bright. It’s sad to see the Mariners have some racism, diversity, culture, issues. And it stems from the top- just see the lawsuits the Mariners have settled out of court so the public doesn’t find out about them. Shameful. Lifelong M’s fan, but I am gonna try to root for the Padres & Phillies from here on out.
You realize that Nasty Nestor pitched for Seattle?? yep
Yes, I already knew, but how could Jerry knew he would become a All-Star (just saying)
Oh shut the eff up with the racism b.s. would you? Leave that to the liars on TV that are dividing this country for crying out loud.
@fre5hwind Nothing at all odd about it. Top tier GM. What do you find so odd about him ??? For me, I wanna know what skin care products he uses or what brand of colon cleanse because the guy doesn’t look a day over 18 yet he’s 55 years old.
What I find odd is how he makes trades so quick, maybe it’s just me but that’s what I think.
So quick? So you know how long he works on his trades? You have absolutely no clue as to how long his trades have taken. Can’t even make an educated guess as there is nothing to go on…
What.
Dipot and John STANTON is what is wrong with MLB. Ownership will continue to make millions in revenue, while putting a semi-competitive team out there knowing fans will come & Seattle will support them either way. Mariners know they will make money either way, so why would they want to be a top 10 payroll like the 3 other teams Seattle is playing against in their division.
@tanner under what rock did you and Stevil climb out from ?? Horrible takes, both of ya claim you’re Mariner fans though, uh huh, but can’t stop mindlessly denigrating the team. More likely Angels fans (or Phil Nevin’s weed dealers) over here to poison the waters with your inane false talking points.
Pretty ballsy writing this type of article about the Mariners knowing full well they could trade 75% of the roster between the time you finish it and the time you publish it.
Wow… great piece Darraugh. Didn’t think MLBTR would wade into this issue which has been frustrating and perplexing for most long time Mariner fans. I’m actually pretty blullish on the roster so I’m most interested in how 2023 plays out. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if the M’s catch fire and win the division or struggle and finish 4th behind Houston, Texas and California. Will be an interesting year to see if all luxury tax paying clubs glide into the post season or not.
I’ll add, after seeing how the free agent space dust settled, My preference would have been a trade for Torres over Wong. As far as free agent outfielders are concerned and considering the money they pulled in, I would have made a play for Benintendi. Would have loved to sign Senga but per reports, Dipoto didn’t have a chance of landing him. Play ball!
The Mariners still need a left fielder. Profar is better than any of their options for Left. And he can back up SS and 2B. He is far better than any of the backups we have now. Dipoto and Servais seem to be in love with Moore, who can’t hit. Kelenic might still develop, but you can’t go into the season thinking he’ll be the regular Left fielder. He has given zero reasons to have confidence in him, so far.
Most likely going to be a trade.
I don’t like the idea of Profar in a regular role. But as a fourth outfielder, or utility guy who can rotate through the lineup to give guys a break from the field?
Sure.
I’d much rather just give Kelenic the at bats than sign some one year stopgap like Profar or someone similar. That would be asinine. Give Kelenic the at bats and opportunity. He’s only 23. He very well could still develop. I just hope hes matured some this off-season. I think changing his attitude would go a long ways.
You don’t have to hit if you can run a .360 OBP with some pop and play good defense at multiple positions. Not many backups have been better then Moore
Moore is probably going to see a lot of time at 2B and SS with LHPs on the mound. Haggerty as well. It’s probably more likely they stay in-house and give one of the LHH outfielders the final bench spot, but there’s an argument for Profar.
I think they are being conservative with their money so they can go after Ohtani next offseason.
I will 100% guarantee Ohtani will not be signing with the Mariners next year that’s a fallacy that Mariner fans have he will want $500 million and there’s no way the Mariners will pay that
I agree with you. The M’s will want him but that is not their type of commitment financially.
There are no guarantees in baseball and Ohtani didn’t seem to care that much about soaking up every possible dollar when he came to MLB. He could have had more dough from the Mariners and Yankees, if I’m not mistaken, but wanted to go to LA. You can argue that the dough at that time was all chump-change, but it’s not nothing.
I don’t think he’s likely going to Seattle either, but it’s easy to see Seattle making an exception to their payroll and doing everything possible to try to persuade him. They traded players for IBP dough just to make him an offer the first time around.
Whether he stays in LA or goes, he’s still going to get paid well. He knows that.
Dragz
I sure hope not. His next contract will be a disaster for some team.
I’d have loved to have had his previous deal, and the M’s were in on him.
Seattle came in #2 behind the Angels last time Ohtani had a choice. We definitely have the building blocks and personnel to put around him to succeed. I think Seattle is as likely as anybody to land him.
Hahahahaha!
I agree that the Mariners need two more bats and I believe a lefty in the bullpen since they traded E. Swanson. (please see Andrew Chafin). I think one bat needs to come via trade- Santander would be my preference as it would not cost as much as Reynolds. Keeping Haniger would have solved this !!!!! What a great clubhouse guy as well! I don’t believe that Reynolds is the huge difference maker that so many are making him out to be. Really strong all-around player but not a superstar by any means right now. The other may come via free agency but based on what is left (Pollack perhaps? Profar?) The free agency move can only be a part time addition not the main addition to the batting order. How many times has Jerry D. made a trade that no one has seen coming? (See Suarez and Winker) My guess is that teams are trying to figure out their last free agency pieces and trades will start really kicking up after the first week of January…I have to believe the M’s will be involved as anyone and yes, Marco or Flexen will be traded at that time.. I am concerned that the M’s have not been s active as hoped and perhaps as advertised BUT these contracts of 11 and 13 years long are insane….What does a 39 year old Trea Turner look like once his speed is gone? No thanks, I get the need to pay now to win now when the window is there but with this young base the M’s have (Rodriguez, Gilbert, Raleigh, Kirby, Munoz) the right pieces as they move along may keep them in this for quite a while. Lets go get two pieces!
Kelenic, Haggerty, Trammell, Moore…..
If the ball is hit to left field, who catches it?
No he doesn’t, Who is on first
I’m not asking ya who is on first
Yes he is
What is that name of the guy playing left?
What’s on 2nd
I don’t care who is on second
He’s on first.
There is a guy playing out in left field
Why
Because I want to know the guy in left
Why
Because I wanna meet him and when I meet him I want to say the guys name, what’s his name?
What is on 2nd.
Why is in Left, What is on 2nd, Who’s on first
I don’t know
Third base….
Wampum-WTF??????Feel free to delete that mess.
Booooooooo
Mariners should’ve traded Haniger when his value was high a couple years back.
The Mariners made some big moves, but they came BEFORE the free agent signings went crazy.
They extended SP Robbie Ray at what now looks like a bargain
They extended SP Luis Castillo at what now looks like a bargain
They extended OF Julio Rodriguez to a huge contract
THEN they traded for Hernandez and Wong.
Their biggest question mark remains in left field, where they have some highly-touted young guys (Jarred Kelenic and Taylor Trammell) who haven’t yet produced as most everyone in baseball expected (both were listed as #1 prospects at one point, Trammell with Cincinatti and also #2 at San Diego).
The Mariners and Pirates may still hook up on a deal for Bryan Reynolds and move Reynolds to left field. The M’s have a number of young players that could fill lots of holes for Pittsburgh. For example:
The Pirates need highly rated young pitchers as well as a young, seasoned starter.
The Mariners could trade their Minor League Pitcher of the Year who is 25-6 in two years of minor league play and ready for AAA or higher in 2023…..TAYLOR DOLLARD.
They could package DOLLARD (16-2, 2.25 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, 144 IP with only 106 H in 2022) with young (28) veteran starter CHRIS FLEXEN, a solid #4 or #5 starter since returning from overseas play.
The Pirates are also weak in 1B prospects with aging veterans at the position in 2023, so the M’s could sweeten the deal by adding their Minor League Hitter of the Year, ROBERT PEREZ, JR., who hit .288/.398/.921 OPS with 27 HR, 114 RBI, and 100 R in 2022.
The Mariners have no ready replacement for Wong at 2B who is on a one-year deal, so the Pirates might throw in a top 2B prospect (they have three) and ask the M’s for either Trammell or Kelenic AND a young MLB relief pitcher such as Penn Murphy (4-0, 2.99 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, 76 K in 69 IP).
The M’s get Bryan Reynolds and a good “near ready” 2B prospect.
The Pirates get MLB starter Chris Flexen, MLB reliever Penn Murphy, Minor League Pitcher of the Year Taylor Dollard, Minor League Hitter of the Year Robert Perez, Jr., and outfielder Taylor Trammell, who was a former #1 prospect for Cincinnati and #2 prospect. for San Diego.
Seems to me that the Pirates would be nuts to turn down a deal like that.
The Mariners don’t have anyone to DH, either.
The problem with trading from the farm is that the MLB arms that are close are serving as their depth. If they trade Dollard, Hancock, or Miller, they’ll need to find alternatives for reserves. That’s arguably not a big deal, but having young, controllable arms with upside is more desirable.
We don’t know if Pittsburgh would even be interested in what Seattle could offer, though, and Seattle needs more than just one bat.
Lot of work to do.
After trading for A left fielder you say still alot of work to be done. What are you referring to? With a lineup in no particular order of Julio, France, Teoscar, Suarez, Raleigh, Wong, Crawford plus the new addition in left field. Maybe a everyday DH? Or rotate the outfield through DH when being giving a day off from fielding. Yes they need a bp arm that gets lefties out. But Jerry seemed confident that there are multiple arms in the minors ready to take a bp arm. And they do have Sadler with Gott.
It’s not just left field and someone to DH & fill in, it’s finding a LHRP and moving the pieces that don’t fit.
They don’t have any decent LHRPs. Not on the active roster, not in the upper-minors.
The most likely RHRPs for the bullpen right now are Sewald, Castillo, Muñoz, Murfee, Sadler, Festa, and Gott. Speier is on the 40 and Clarke, the rule 5 pick, will likely serve as insurance in case Sadler isn’t ready out of spring, or another injury occurs. He’s probably more likely to be returned.
If they hang on to both Flexen & Gonzales, one would have to go to the BP and there wouldn’t be room for another LHRP.
So, yes, there is a lot of work to do for this year alone. They will probably find a taker for Flexen and they really should get a LHRP, left fielder, and DH/utility fielder.
I think that’s a lot and that’s what I would call the least they could do. Moving Gonzales as well and bringing in more dominant starter could help give them an edge over the Rangers and Angels who both solidified their rotations.
it wouldn’t be a terrible idea to prepare for 2024 as well, especially if they’re going to go cheap. I can think of a few ideas that would make sense.
My gut says there in on the remaining left handed arms like Chafin. No prospects necessary and it’s probably the cheapest route in bringing in help. The outfielder via trade is what determines the DH I think. With Kelenic they could rotate the 4 outfielders through DH. We shall see if Jerry is as eager and stressed as I am.
I’ve believed that they’re more likely to move Flexen for a LHRP, and Kelenic is more likely to serve as the strong side of a platoon in LF, or start the season with Tacoma.
But I’ve been wrong about pretty much everything so far this offseason, so what do I know!?
You and me both!
Dollard and Pérez Jr are not significant prospects to headline a Reynold trade. They’re fine complimentary pieces.
Taylor Trammell’s stock is in the toilet. He’s a 4th OF type and not a top prospect any longer. The Pirates aren’t moving Reynolds without getting a real top prospect back. Like the M’s gave up for Castillo. They’re looking for a Marte level guy to headline that.
& the Pirates don’t need a rental backend arm. The M’s can dangle him but I’m not sure why the Pirates would place any value on him when they’re dealing Reynolds and essentially punting on the season at this point. Might as well acquire another prospect or guy that can help in ‘24 and beyond.
There’s no way Dollard/Young/Perez/Flexen gets it done. Surely they would want Hancock, Gabriel Gonzalez, Ford, and probably 2-3 more players (perhaps including Dollard and Kelenic).
And that would probably be fair–if Pittsuburgh was even interested, but I would argue Seattle can’t really afford to do that, either. Hacock, Dollard, Miller, and Brash represent their SP depth. Only Brash is MLB-ready, and he might be more likely to serve in the BP.
Young is the closest, decent infielder they have in the minors and he’s still not that close. Gonzalez is the most promising OF prospect they have. Moving so much for just one need would really leave them vulnerable and even more dependent on free agency, which doesn’t offer much in way of infielders next offseason.
I really have a hard time seeing Seattle acquire Reynolds, but it would be nice if they could do so without completely gutting their farm.
Reynolds is no Castillo.
Reynolds is controllable for 3 years. Not 1.5.
It won’t be a cheap acquisition with spare parts and mid level prospects
Divish states that “multiple MLB sources have indicated that he isn’t operating with the payroll flexibility that was widely anticipated”. So these sources are likely people on other teams with knowledge of Dipoto’s trade negotiations this offseason. I’m guessing then that Jerry hasn’t been as willing to take on additional salary as perhaps they were expecting.
This doesn’t tell us what the Mariner’s payroll budget is but it does tell us that it’s not quite as much as we had hoped. It certainly sounded like we were very interested in one or two of the shortstops (Turner in particular). That means that we may have spent if the right player was interested in coming to Seattle. Whether the M’s are being too cautious or just pragmatic is a valid debate. What I will say is that the budget constraints are certainly enough to force Jerry into these types of financial considerations and it could cost the Mariners a legit chance at a World Series in the next 5 years.
Incoming stupid bandwagon fans with little to no understanding of team building.
U nailed it big daddy
The 0nly Big Game at T-Mobile this year will be the All- Star Game. Enjoy it while you can Mariner fans.
M’s trade for Verdugo, Torres & Santander!
I’ve heard that Boston was very interested in Wong before the M’s traded for him. Is it possible that Jerry trades Wong to Boston for Verdugo (to play LF)? And then trade Marco to the Yanks for Torres? Might even be able to trade for Santander in a 3rd move. I believe Seattle has enough MLB ready players and prospects to satisfy each team in a trade. Will the M’s be better with these 3 trades or will they be better giving up what they have to to score a trade for Reynolds?
Torres would cost a lot more than Marco
Fair enough. And yes I would have to agree. But either way, M’s have the chips to make a deal for Torres.
@SODO Mariners don’t need Torres, they have Wong. Verdugo is not a difference maker, he’s a place holder. The Pirates are not getting Gilbert or Kirby in any Reynolds trade, whoever thinks that should keep smokin’ the tweed.
Exactly, if Mariners make a trade for Reynolds, Hancock would be the center piece if even that. No way Kirby or Logan would be included for him unless Pirates were including multiple of their top prospects.
The Bics still seem to be asking for the moon on Reynolds, so I don’t think that’s a viable alternative. And while Verdugo is probably available in the right trade package, I don’t know if he’s the answer to improving the club.
Sodo, are you willing to include either Gilbert or Kirby in a package? I’m sure any trade for Reynolds would START with one of them and go from there.
I would trade them Trammell Flexen Gilbert and Murfee for Reynolds and Bednar
I agree with you 100%. I myself believe it will take Gilbert or Kirby to lend Reynolds. But I don’t believe it will take either to land Torres, Sanatndar, and/or Verdugo.
There are some trade scenarios that I think are realistic and would salvage the offseason as well as prepare them for the future. I don’t think Verdugo is the right guy for LF, and I don’t think Torres fits at this point, but it’s easy to look at a team like Milwaukee and seeing another swap working out.
Verdugo is an upgrade to Kelenic in LF. Not a lot of power but did hit 30+ doubles and doesn’t strike out at a high rate. Will hit for a higher average than Kelenic and so far is proven at the MLB level. He’s only 26 and in his prime.
Verdugo had a 103 wRC+ and Steamer has him pegged for 113 this year, despite having declined two years in a row. He doesn’t offer power, his defense was even worse last year than it was in 2021, and he would come with character concerns that have followed him both on and off the field.
I would take the defensive high-floor that Kelenic has with his power potential over Verdugo without thinking twice.
That said, I still hope Seattle isn’t leaning on Kelenic out the gates.
The plan is for Ben Gamel in left field, and Dan Vogelbach as DH. Are we settled?
It should be especially frustrating for M’s fans, given that each team received an extra 40M from the league this offseason. No excuses – the owner is not willing to do what it takes to go for it. Damn shame.
@coop you’re absolutely wrong and you should quit falling for the group-think. There was not one free agent that was worth the contract handed to them this winter…most if not all will turn into albatross contracts sooner rather than later. The Mariners should be lauded for not mindlessly throwing money away at guys over 30 years old & entering their downslope to mediocrity. Mariners dodged bullets , good for them. More money for Ohtani, and still time to upgrade via trade.
The more you speak ignorant sob the more your name makes perfect sense!
It’s baffling to hear a fan repeatedly praising the team for missing out on a number of opportunities while simultaneously criticizing other fans for wanting the best team possible.
Maybe it’s Jeff Passan in character?
My team would lose 120 with that paltry payroll.
So let me get this straight: each MLB team is getting an extra $30 MM because of the media company sale, plus the Mariners will be reaping tens of millions in revenue for hosting the 2023 All-Star Game, yet they still can’t afford to make truly significant additions to the roster?
While Seattle has slightly shortened the distance to Houston, they can’t catch them with their roster as it is. And the the Angels and Rangers have really closed the distance to the M’s with their moves, especially their pitching. With their current roster, the M’s aren’t a playoff team; pitching will only take them so far in this division. And since there will be a minimum of three teams in the AL East that will be realistic contenders for a playoff spot (and maybe 4 if the Orioles can build on last year), a Wild Card berth is not even close to a sure thing for Seattle.
They needed to take the chance on a huge name to show the fans that they’re serious about winning, especially in a season where they’re hosting the Mid-Season Classic.. Now it looks like they’re frittering away all of the goodwill they generated in 2022… which still only culminated in a single home playoff game (well, since it went 18 innings, you could sort of say two…) But this is a big=time missed opportunity.
And I agree… as much as they think they have a shot at Ohtani, it’s not happening. Steve Cohen is already locking his chops.
Zoink, the M’s may be ‘hosting’ the All-Star game, but MLB is running the whole show. They’re not making tens of millions off the game, MLB is. MLB pays all the bills, including stadium rental, staff, etc. Not sure where the concession money goes, but even the sky high beer prices won’t generate ‘tens of millions’.
@zoinks Where did you guys all come from with all the same recycled hackneyed opinions ? The Mariners were arguably the second best team in the American League last year and with two more timely hits and one less homerun given up in the ALDS, would have beat the Astros handily. The Mariners did not need any of those free agents, particularly at the exorbitant prices they ended up costing…still have time to address needs via trade. The sky is not falling.
Lol. What? Seattle finished 16 games behind Houston and got swept in the playoffs by them. They aren’t close to Houston and weren’t close to winning the ALDS. They beat Houston ONCE after July.
At the end of the day all a team has to do is spend money to get better players they don’t have to worry about only developing the farm system or to find trade partners but the Mariners ownership has showed time and time again over the years that they don’t want to spend money to get better they want to do everything on the cheap and unfortunately us fans have to pay the price for them not going out there and getting the players we need to put us over the top just look at what Texas is doing you can’t tell me that Texas has more money than the Mariners especially with Root sports and the fan base and all that we could easily be doing what Texas is doing and when we finish in third place next year fans are going to go what the hell happened
Same as my Cubs. When they spent near the top of the league, they finally won a chip. Now they want to build a team and that takes time. It’s simply an excuse not to spend a lot for a couple of years. And while their payroll looks good compared to the M’s, teams like the Cardinals seemingly never have to take a step back to keep winning.
1. Mariners dont want a traditonal DH. they rotate players in/out
2. I dont ever see Dipoto spending 8+ years and $200 M+++ on a FA
3.. They crunch #s/cost to find the best value/option.
4. Wong will produce betterr than most think he will. Year removed from his leg issues.
5. Let the Tex, LAA spend big stupid money. Then when it dosnt work…..
100% the M’s should of been in spend now mode this off-season. This was the perfect year to do it for the M’s. I personally can’t see a better time to have spent. You can’t trade your way to the perfect team you want Jerry. Then where’s this long term sustainability you dream of gonna be? Gone, cause you’ve traded away all your coveted prospects to get to the now, a small window of 3 or 4 years of contention.
As we all know, you don’t get Star players for cheap in the trade market. 2 stars would guy any franchises farm. I guess there’s always next year to spend, but you’ve wasted a year arbitration with the young controlled pitching.
The trade for Castillo was a no-brainer. Cost 2 prospects that hurt but necessary. Other than that JD hasn’t traded anything worth getting upset over. Wong was traded for Winker and Toro. Neither was needed or wanted. Teoscar Hernandez was for Eric Swanson. Make that trade all day. Seattle has plenty of bp arms to replace Swanson. Traded a top 100 prospect and pieces for Winker and Suarez last year. Had no 3rd baseman in the organization ready to contribute. Turned out well worth it for what Suarez produced and Winker got them Wong. Point is its not like he is sending prospects in trades for the sake of doing it.
Well I was talking about trading for “Stars” with multiple years of control (Soto ect). It will cost yah. That said once again, there team and there payroll was in good shape to purchase these goods in free agency, rather than trade for… That is, If u want to keep the pipeline of young players coming thru to help for sustained contention. It’s a long shot anyway, this sustained success thing, unless u start spending.
If they extend Teoscar and Wong they literally have no positions to fill. Except left field. Which I’m sure there working on. But with the entire lineup locked up for multiple years. They can begin restocking the minors. With 3 1st round picks in this draft to start.
Dude, Plug, there was nobody in free agency worth the beans anyway. Which “star” players do you think the Mariners should have blown money on ???
For all the talk of Seattle catching the Astros, I think the more realistic talk should be about staying ahead of Anaheim and Texas. The A’s finishing fifth is more or less given, and the Astros finishing first is nearly so. While the M’s looked to be a fairly solid pick to finish second, now it looks like second through fourth places are a toss-up. One other given: Dipoto probably has some trades up his sleeve. That could change things, but for now, I find Seattle’s lack of activity sad.
Totally agree Sloth, unless the Astros have a injured rattle season, it is a fight for the wild cards for the 3 others in the division. Stranger things have happened for sure thou.
As a long time Mariners fan, I am fine with the “wait and see” approach rather than spending huge amounts of money now. Left field is probably the biggest question mark, another solid BP arm wouldn’t hurt either, but those things might also settle themselves by the All-star break. Also need to see how well the team performs vs the rest of the now very competitive division. Perhaps it’s not the right time to spend yet. I still need to check the free agent market for the next few seasons, but Ohtani is in play next year (though with the crazy FA market this year I’m not sure the Mariners can compete).
They talk about finances as if it’s a concern. This free agency was never going to be. Though they did have us licking our chops some.. I think they will bring someone around just don’t expect for a flashy player probably some player on the bubble of a team. The problem all started when they conveyed that they were ok about this team. They have like I said before maybe we get lucky and see Ben Gamel in left field and Dan Vogelbach as the DH.
Please say it isn’t true!