The Blue Jays have made a few drastic lineup changes this offseason, sending out Teoscar Hernández and top catching prospect Gabriel Moreno while bringing back Daulton Varsho and signing Kevin Kiermaier. Toronto general manager Ross Atkins recently told reporters he considers the club’s heavy lifting mostly finished, though he left the door open for another small-scale move or two.
One area of the roster that has thus far not changed is the infield. That’s not all that surprising, considering the Jays entered the offseason with a strong infield under club control for another year. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Matt Chapman will be back at the corners, with Bo Bichette manning shortstop. The one position that doesn’t seem entirely settled is second base, though that’s not for a lack of options. Toronto has a trio of players who could compete for reps at the keystone, with manager John Schneider presumably planning to divvy up playing time depending on how each performs early in 2023.
At the moment, Whit Merrifield looks like the favorite for early run. Toronto acquired him from the Royals at last summer’s trade deadline, buying low at a time when the two-time All-Star was sitting on a meager .240/.290/.352 line. The Jays seemed undeterred by those numbers, betting on Merrifield’s career track record and generally solid work following an atrocious April. He rewarded the front office’s faith, hitting .281/.323/.446 in 44 games in a Jays uniform.
That surely cemented Merrifield’s place somewhere in the regular lineup, with second base being the straightforward option. Merrifield is capable of covering all three outfield positions, but Varsho and Kiermaier are in line for regular playing time alongside George Springer on the grass. With Alejandro Kirk and Danny Jansen likely to split time between catcher and designated hitter, Merrifield will presumably man second base on Opening Day.
Doing so pushes a pair of players who looked like quality regulars for the Jays not too long ago — Santiago Espinal and Cavan Biggio — to the bench. Biggio has been in the Opening Day lineup in each of the past three seasons, twice at the keystone, but that seems unlikely to be the case this year. The left-handed hitter is coming off a second straight pedestrian year, hitting .202/.318/.350 with six home runs through 303 plate appearances. Biggio still draws plenty of walks but he’s seen his power production dip the past couple seasons. He struggled enough he was briefly optioned to Triple-A Buffalo last season, though he was recalled within two weeks. He spent most of the year in a utility capacity, playing all four corner spots in addition to second base.
After Biggio was demoted, the primary second base job fell to Espinal. The 28-year-old had worked primarily as a versatile bench piece from 2020-21. He played his way into more consistent reps with a strong first few months in 2022, hitting .271/.323/.425 through the end of June. He even secured an All-Star appearance for that excellent early work, but he couldn’t carry that production for a full season. Espinal hit .261/.321/.317 from July onwards, ceding some more playing time to Biggio and (after the deadline) Merrifield for the stretch run.
With Merrifield in the fold, Espinal and Biggio each entered the offseason as at least somewhat realistic potential trade candidates. Espinal’s ability to cover shortstop if Bichette were injured and/or needed a rest day made him seem more entrenched than Biggio in Toronto, although it seemed reasonable teams could call on either player. There’s been no indication thus far that Toronto has discussed either with other clubs.
Considering the scant remaining middle infield options available via free agency, it’s possible teams like the White Sox, Angels, Giants or Brewers could still be in touch with Atkins and his staff in the coming months. The Jays don’t figure to be urgent to move either player, particularly considering the health uncertainty present with Kiermaier and Springer. An injury to either could press Merrifield more frequently back into outfield duty, leaving Espinal and/or Biggio to handle the keystone on a more regular basis.
Espinal and Biggio each qualified for arbitration for the first time this winter. They’re both projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for a salary in the $2-3MM range. That’s hardly onerous, although there’s a case to be made for considering trade possibilities. As MLBTR’s Darragh McDonald noted last week, the Blue Jays presently project to enter the season right around the $233MM base luxury tax line. There are enough error bars in arbitration projections they could conceivably head into the year either above or below that threshold.
A team’s tax payor status isn’t finalized until season’s end, and the organization could well determine they’re comfortable exceeding that mark to maximize their chances in what should be a competitive AL East. Yet if the club is content with its infield strength — especially if they’re confident prospect Addison Barger will be ready for MLB action fairly early in the season — fielding offers on Espinal or Biggio could make sense. They’re not under pressure to do so but would presumably be open to the possibility, particularly if they could net immediate rotation depth or bullpen help.
Who do the Bluejays have of good value for Nick Madrigal? Honestly, I don’t want Madrigal to be traded but if they have a extra starter the cubs are looking for or a LH bat. They should explore the idea.
I would be willing to trade Jansen and Tiedemann for madrigal. He would be a big upgrade at second.
Hilarious lol
If the Blue Jays offered that, the Cubs would happily accept.
No chance
I’ll gladly send Mitch White for Madrigal. Just don’t get buyers remorse when he posts an ERA over 7 lmao.
Im sure you would
Biggio for Madrigal
I heard Carlos Correa could be available? Maybe, the BlueJays could be the lst team to pass his physical?
The Blue Jays have a bunch of Nick Madrigal types already on their roster. Left handed bats are also a bit sparse in Toronto and are probably depth options for the coming season rather than a team’s number one on the depth chart.
You got a mistake in the first sentence,.it should say, After the Blue Jays got fleeced in a few deals over the last couple years leaving them minimal options elsewhere on the field, second base.is probably the exception.
Seriously I still cry when I think about the ra Dickey trade. This organization has been run by the most unqualified people for decades and it’s embarrassing. This team will be lucky to finish above last in the AL East.
Should’ve traded Espinal when the value was high for a very short window….but the Jays always seem to want the proverbial pat on the back for finding low cost high performance. Put Biggio there and have Merrifield and Espinal fill in. 3 lefties in the lineup is 3 more than last year.
Put Biggio in if he ever learns to swing with 2 strikes and has better than mediocre defense. Otherwise Espinal or Merrifield.
And how much baseball executive experience do you have?
I think Bichette was our best hitter
Fleeced by who exactly?
Im dying to hear this.
Wait…I’ll conceed one that may even turn opposite.
Word is AZ may have fleeced Toronto for Moreno. That’ll take 3-5 years before we’ll even remotely have an answer
So what’s the other ones?
Chapman from Oakland?
Donaldson from Oakland
1 year lf Teo for 4 or 5 of Swanson AND a pretty decent pitching prospect (who everyone seems to forget or ignore)
We can go smaller scale. We got Espinal a few years ago in a trade that netted the redsox the WS mvp but no one would say Toronto lost that one
I dont think Toronto has made a horrible trade since Halliday
Teo was our best hitter and we traded him for a mediocre at best reliever. Horrible trade. And yes All of those trades are horrible except the Donaldson one but that’s only because the athletics were desperate to trade him.
Teo is a Ufa next yr. That matters
Varsho and injured Kiermaier were worth 6 bWar 107 runs , 96 rbi’s . Hernández and Gurriel Jr. were worth 5 bWAR 123 runs and 129 rbi’s . If Kiermaier wasn’t injured the offence would have been the same. Outfield is already better next year.
Your dying to hear it well don’t die its just an opinion on an opinion message board.
First things first. When you do trades you try to make the value of what you are trading equal to or less than the value you get back. If you trade higher value (overall) than what you get back, at the time of the trade, then you are not doing a good job. If you trade really high value and get something a lot less back you are getting fleeced. Trades are not done on hindsight. However you TRY to evaluate, in baseball concept, prospects or change of scenery players on what they are valued at now and what they might become.
In the case of the Blue Jays they get fleeced more than most think. As you mentioned the Arizona deal was a hugh fleecing. The deal for Berrios was also a fleecing. The deal to send Grichuk and paying a good portion of his salary, including again this year, for one year of Tapia, while they spent the whole year trying different people as a backup CF., is getting fleeced. I didn’t like Grichuk but paying him to go away and getting nothing when they could not get another replacement for CF and no Grichuk wasn’t great in center but he was better than nothing the gor fleeced. They got fleeced from the Dodgers in the White deal. I can keep going but at this point you either agree or disagree.
Before you say it, I will respond with yes prospects are only prospects until they produce a major leaguer BUT their value at the time of any trade is what maters. Could those prospects used in either the Varsho trade or Berrios trade been part of a package for Soto (the left handed RF we need) or Luis Castillio instead of Berrios?
The deal for Barrios is not a bad one for the Jays, Martin and Woods Richardson have done nothing for Mini.
Oakland fans aren’t exactly hyped by what they received from the Jays and assumed they’d get more
Tapia and Grichuk. Really? Are you reaching THAT far to help your point. Really?
I’ll give you Moreno and Varsho now. As it looks like we over payed. However Varsho realistically could be way better than Moreno as well. Only time will tell.
Im still happy about the deal, Varsho is exactly what our team needed.
Can’t shoulda woulda coulda. Soto? You can’t halt all your teams progress and allow prospects to bust while waiting for a Soto or Ohtani to become available
250 words but can’t throw in one fact, stat line or proof to back up his opinion.
Just pure emotional garbage
Funny how you mention both that the jays got ‘fleeced’ for Berrios and that they could have used those prospects in a soto or Castillo trade , but fail to mention that both those prospects stock have fallen since the trade.
Jaysfan again I will state that deals are not done with hindsight. At the time those 2 prospects were ranked very high and who know what we could have gotten for them better than Berrios. So woulda coulda shoulda BUT they didn’t. Instead they took a pitcher that was ranked a number 3 that had potential to pitch at the top of the rotation at times and that is what they got. They gave up prospects that had high value to get something that had value but lesser than what they might have got else where..
I am not reaching for anything. Would you have paid Tapia 9.2 million last year and another 4.5 million plus his arbitration this year (if they didn’t non tender him)? That is essential what they got for Grichuk If you do your research you can go back and look at the many times this team traded players, paid all or most of their salary and got little or nothing in return. Russel Martin is another example (in the Grichuk mold).
This front office has done some good stuff but so does every front office but its these over pays that will cost the team. For a front office that critiicised AA for gutting the farm but gave us two deep playoff runs this front office has gave us one lack luster showing, unless you count 2020 when Seattle pretty much quit and traded their best pitcher at the time to us then that will make two.
As for Varsho will he be able to play 130 games and CF when KK gets hurt/released and RF when Springer is hurt? I hope he plays his butt off as I am a Blue Jays fan but they got fleeced.
Dusty do you read? Again I will state TRADES ARE NOT DONE WITH HINDSIGHT. I made that very clear in the original post if you cared to read. If every team had hindsight up on doing trades no one would lose ever.
Sorry but Austin Martin was pretty much a bust straight out of the draft. He was horrible defensively and didn’t show anywhere near the bat people anticipated being the number 5 pick and still hasn’t. The Jays were smart to sell high on him. Simeon was coming off a down year and was definitely the piece the Twins wanted most but still not an elite prospect at the time. His stock was down significantly compared to the year prior.
Totally agree with you though that those prospects plus one more high end prospect (Orelvis Martinez ex) could have potentially landed Luis Castillo which would have been a far better use of the prospect capital. Hopefully Berrios has a good year and helps me feel better about that but it’s a point that can’t be ignored in terms of a wasted opportunity.
How is it so hard for people to understand that its the value of what the package is at the time of the deal. Austin Martin’s value was super high.. What he becomes or may or may not have been doing does’nt really mater if teams think he is a high end prospect.
Austin Martins value was not super high at the time of the deal so I’m not sure what you’re basing that off of. He’s had a replacement level minor league career from the time he started with the Jays. He’s not had one above average professional season since he started.
@Darth.
The biggest point youre also neglecting is how someone else might value a prospect or player in general, not me, not another poster, but the GM of say the Angels or the Nationals/Padres depending on who you’re trading with for Soto and Ohtani. Or ATL for Fried and Acuna, or the Rays for Franco and Siri
Best laid plans…….
It’s does matter though. You realize teams have their own internal evaluations and scouts that watch these prospects.
Varsho just put up a 5 WAR season, is controlled for 4 years and is just hitting his prime.
I don’t think you know what a “fleecing” is.
Its not always about comparative costs – team fit matters.
Moreno was yet another RHB – Varsho is a LHB with proven power and excellent defense – both were HUGE needs for the team.
I will miss Teo – a liked him a lot – but we only lost a year of him, no way do they sign him long term when they have the Vlad and Bo deals upcoming. Seattle included a power arm and an interesting high prospect – both team needs
Martin was ranked #22 on the Top 100 MLB prospects at the time of the trade – so not sure where you get that from
We might not even need to wait 3 years for the fleecing to show. Moreno will be playing everyday and even slight regression in power or defence from Varsho and it’s a jays loss. And they had to throw in Gurriel too.
Jays didn’t have 400 ABs to give Moreno, they are in a win cycle and can’t afford to let him learn to be a catcher at the major league level.
I didn’t love the trade, but Varsho had a 4 WAR season last year, do with think Moreno can get there in the next 2 years? I doubt it, it’s a trade of timelines
Dusty They would have had 400 hundred ABs to give to Moreno if they got rid of Jansen like they should have. Instead they kept Jansen weakened the catching as Jansen is the weakest defensive catcher of the three. Now Jansen will catch most games thus weakening the pitching..
@Darth
Instead of talking hypothetical. And “ifs” let’s talk concrete
What other elite starting Ace (which is what Barrios was in Minnesota-and what most fans and pundits agreed he was) was available I trade at that time.
If you dont pull the trigger on Barrios, you dont get another SP that year and the following year both prospects stocks had fallen do you’re not getting anything better at thst point either
You are reaching. Grichuk was not valuable to Toronto. He had his chance, a LHH outfielder was needed and a fair swap was made. Didn’t work out for either club really. Is Grichuk getting extended in Colorado. Dud his numbers jump way up.. no.
And there’s 20 teams(maybe more) who’d LOVE to have Jansen starting for them right now.
I dont think you really understand what you’re saying my brother.
Are things perfect in Jays land? No. But are things better than many other teams. Heck yea.
Im not worried. Neither should you be
“Instead of talking hypothetical. And “ifs” let’s talk concrete”
but then you say
“And there’s 20 teams(maybe more) who’d LOVE to have Jansen starting for them right now.”
If 20 teams were looking for him then Toronto would have got their starter they wanted for him. He never got traded because he is not a good receiver. Pick a sight and go look it up I have quoted the numbers on here lots of times and you read these boards.
As for what was available at that time of Berrios I don’t remember but they could have used in other trades and no it didn’t have to happen right then and there as the Blue Jays never got to the playoffs anyway. they could have used them in the offseason maybe the Reds would have traded Castillio then. Those prospects never lost their value in half a season. In 2022 yes they devalued. Also Berrios was not considered a number 1 throughout baseball. He was the Twins number 1 but he was not ranking up there with the others at the time.
As for the Grichuk thing it was an example. I even said I didn’t like Grichuk as a CFer but what they paid and what they got back (value going out vs. value coming back) they got fleeced.
Getting fleeced doesn’t mean trading equal value for equal value and the value on one side turns in a great year. Thats just getting lucky. Fleeced is paying or giving up a lot more than what the value is of what you are getting back.
Again you’re wrong.
You can’t just trade Jansen for whatever you want, it takes two to tango. But some teams desires and (as you spent 4 paragraphs explaining earlier) ways of evaluating trades and players varies. Each of those 20 plus teams would gladly for equal value take Jansen for a steal of a deal but what’s equal to AZ isn’t equal to Pittsburgh or NYY or Milwaukee.
The fact this has to be explained to you after you tried teaching the whole board is laughable
Your insinuation is Jansen sucks and im hilariously wrong because Jansen didn’t get traded
Didn’t the Jays get STL to offer their best RP who might even close for a contending team straight up for Jansen??, thats pretty valuable!!!
Why doesn’t Pittsburgh just give us Bednar then for Jansen???? That’s the market value!!!
Because even though most of you here think it’s that simple! it’s not!!, and again sorry i have to explain it like you’re 5, at the expense of everyone else on the board i’m going to elaborate more
Pittsburgh would love Jansen just as much as STL, but for different reasons. STL wants to win now, Jansen is a top C and capable of helping STL in their WS hunt, therefore valuable enough to part with a TOP TIER RP given that that have more and can cover that hole easier than the C vacancy left by Molina
Whereas Pittsburgh wouldn’t part with an Equivalent talent because they aren’t competing and have 2 near ready catchers, but if the Jays front office lost their minds and decided to trade Jansen to Pittsburgh for anything less than Reynolds they’d be doing themselves a disservice and Pittsburgh would be just as dumb.
You can’t cherry pick your arguments to feel right or support your own agenda. Even as fans we have to be objective and understand the why as much as the wants.
And again with the maybes. No one knew Castillo would be traded. Cincinnati was coming off signing a Japanese all star and having a good run while also having Votto saying he wants to compete and finish his career in Cincy, the FO even said they weren’t dealing him. Just like Colorado said they weren’t dealing Marquez. One lied one didn’t, ones doing well ones not.
Pretty sure more people wanted Marquez in the hypothetical trades, was thought to be better available in hypothetical trades… same rules apply. We could have waited for Marquez, not gotten him and have 2 prospects ready to busy but instead got Barrios
Truth and facts don’t dissappear no matter how much you want them to. A pig dressed up in lipstick is a better looking pig, but still just a pig in the end
Are you kidding me? NO other team wanted Jansen. That’s what forced us to trade Moreno
@,Stevie. That’s just BS. STL wanted him and offered the equivalent of Pirates closer Bednar to us for him.
Bednar is likely to get Pittsburgh a really good prospect or two if they ever trade him, they probably won’t because he’s hometown and wants to stay so will probably sign a team friendly deal
But to create a post starting with “are you kidding me” means you’re obviously a troll and are just looking for attention
@Darth, getting fleeced is trading James Shields for Tatis (sorry Whitesox fans) SHOUTING TRADES HAVE TO BE EVALUATED AT THE TIME OF THE DEAL AND NO HINDSITE IS ALLOWED is screaming to just accept your opinion ad fact, ignore logic and just play along with your sully game to make you feel justified in your opinion
Life doesn’t care how you feel, grow up. Understand the world sucks, no one cares about either of our opinion, facts are facts and what we want isn’t the likely outcome
The main error I see in Darthyen’s take is he talks about prospects as if they have some set inherent value that is objective and easy to deduce. But that is hardly ever the case. Every team has their own private evaluation criteria for prospects, and they may value a certain guy way less or way more than how others see him. That’s why trades involving prospects can take up to 4 or 5 years sometimes to truly evaluate the winners and losers objectively.
Jansen and Kirk are some of the best teammates and quality players a team could have. They both happen to play the same position and have their own strengths and weaknesses. Any team would be lucky to have one, let alone both. I would call them both clutch players as both put up timely ABs. Why on earth would you trade that/break that up? I get the buyer’s remorse, and clearly everyone is a fantasy manager professional… But do you even watch Blue Jays games? Do you like Manoah? Keep him happy with Kirk. Of course you trade Moreno, he’s an asset. One of (happened to be both) Lourdes and Teoscar to improve this team. We didn’t just need a LH, we needed a culture change stemming from Montoyas “fun” approach to baseball,two RPs, and a CF. Not only did we get a CF we got a 5 WAR player. These don’t fall off trees. They are the tree. Complaining about trading prospects for another teams ace is silly. Berries brings more to this team than people realize. How he trains and carries himself. His passion and care. Important qualities to have around a young team. Those traded prospects are not really setting the world ablaze… Trading Grichuk screams “over meddling”, but we needed a LH bat desperately… See the theme here? Moreno could easily be a great everyday catcher for the Snakes, but realistically we had nowhere we could put him that wouldn’t set back his development. Better to sell high on him to get a controlled asset that has a great “battler” mentality and fills the needs of the team. Other option is essentially trading Kirk (arguably highest value of the three) but he’s beloved by fans and teammates and our best pitcher in Manoah. As a Toronto fan, we took the lesser pill, as I’d prefer Kirk to Lourdes or Teoscar. Teo will be missed for his offense, albeit consistently inconsistent and Lourdes for his hair and antics, but Kirk would be a gut punch and the team is clearly too fragile or too united to consider it. When you trade with teams that have no pressure from fans or ownership, more than likely, you will be trading from a position of weakness. Especially considering all the pressure on the Jays in win now mode, I’d say we made good deals that have a high floor of being great, simply because of the controlled assets we got in return. Be thankful they don’t run it back over and over, patting their backs when they churn out mediocre diamonds from previous deals. This is the best outcome. We didn’t do nothing, we traded our top asset for a dire positional and lineup need, we got another pitcher, we got a good rp with potentially elite stuff. We’re one top LHP reliever away from a near perfect off-season. Have faith fans.
Well when you’re done explaining your opinion on getting “fleeced”…. It doesn’t apply in the Grichuk trade if the team doesn’t care about eating said money. If a team above the cap, ate half a contract to put them under, you’d be commenting about their genius instead. The trade is not in a vacuum. They got the LH bat, they got rid of a RH bat who was being overpaid and that caught up to them. Trading a bad contract with money to address a teams need isn’t being fleeced. You don’t pay the bills.
Chavez for Hendriks?
Tellez for Richards and Frances?
Blue Jays analytics team loves Biggio!!! No way they give up on him yet.
Espinal is good depth in case of injury, so I doubt he will be moved either.
Personally I think they should try Espinal in center field. He has the arm and the speed. Obviously he is not an everyday player but he could fill in when KK gets hurt or released.
He’s played 12 games in CF in the minors, in AA, in 2019. There would have to be a lot of injuries in the OF before, in one game, before he would see any time there.
I’d rather the cubs try to trade for Brett Baty or Eduardo Escobar. After the Correa deal is finally finalized.
I like biggio, he just needs regular playing time. he takes alot of walks which is great and if he just hits slightly better his numbers will look really good. I think Barger is going to be a good major leaguer aswell plus hes a lefty swinger. I think they keep Espinal as Whitt and Chapman will be a FA after this season so that will give them infield options like Barger, Biggio, Bichette and Espinal baring a resigning or a signing of some1 else. So realistically the smart olay is to keep them all
Sorry bro, but Biggio can’t catch up to most fastballs higher than 95-96. I like his patience at the plate, but the guy just doesn’t have enough batspeed.
If that were the case he’d be a master at hitting the other way.
He pulls everything, he certainly has the bat speed for 95
He has the batspeed. He just misses frequently.
Biggio might bounce back with no shifts. He’s a dead pull hitter
Trade Jansen to the cubs for Rowan Wick and sign alcides Escobar for second base. This isn’t rocket science yet Atkins is always finding way to ruin this team. Maybe he will listen for once. Escobar would be an excellent veteran figure with post season experience.
I feel like the front office will give Biggio the chance at getting the starting 2B job only because he’s an on base machine and hits LH.
His glove was always best at 2nd in comparison to other spots on the feild.
With the shift gone, that should raise his avg at least to 250. With an OBP nearing 375.
If Biggio repeats his rookie performance 2B is his and Whit becomes the 4th OF and Espinal becomes the backup/utility inf although Whit probably still sees time in the INF eventually because of injuries
Espinal may get traded to a team like the Whitesox to allow the MIF prospects some space to play occasionally as well.
Still need a RHH to platoon with Varsho when Whit is in for KK, AJ Pollack anyone??
We need a decent 4th outfielder, who hits right-handed. Varshos numbers against lefties are very week. Merrifield can cover in the outfield, but we definitely need one more outfielder. No chance that Springer and/or KK will play close to a whole season
What a dream to think Biggio will increase his on base by over .50 points. And I really don’t think the Jays traded their top prospect only to have Varsho platoon. That’s wild.
Not at dream at all. His rookie year was great. He had a decent average and walked at a league leading rate.
He’s been injured over and over and placed in a position he didn’t excel at (3rd) while bouncing everywhere but the spot he’s most comfortable.
I bet if Kirk had to play LF all year his bat would crater too as he’d be too busy focusing on his D instead of his ABs
Biggio cannot catch up to a high fastball. The book has been out on him for years now around the league. Look for it during his at bats. Pitchers are being aggressive in the zone with him early knowing he takes a lot of pitches and then also knowing high heat just outside of the zone will put him away with 2 strikes once he needs to expand a little bit. His extreme plate discipline I think is keeping him from being more aggressive and putting other pitches in play early in the count, and also he waits so long on pitches to identify ball or strike that he doesn’t have much of a chance to catch up to high heat with his swing profile. I think he needs to start being more aggressive early in the count or he will never get out of his major hitting funk. It’s incredible to me how nearly all teams in the league are pitching him this way because it’s such a weakness of his, yet he continues to go up there with the same approach. It’s borderline embarrassing to watch.
To me Espinal is the starting second baseman based on his defense, excellent hitting approach and bat to ball skills. He’s a gold glove caliber second baseman and you can’t have enough of those guys in a lineup. Seems like a perfect 9 hole hitter with KK hitting 8th.
While I agree that one area may be a weakness because of his swing and want to eye the ball into the mitt so often. Once he selects a pitch and gets it close to the part of the zone he’s looking for he can certainly connect. Even on inside fastballs. It’s where his power is generated.
It’s also on Pitchers to make good pitches more often than not. Which in today’s low control fireballers isn’t a garuntee
I see a big season coming for Biggio.
Espinal is better flipped to a needy 2B team like the Whitesox for a RP like Hendricks
Too many middle infielders knocking on the door who can play 2nd like Barger or Martinez
Biggio can’t handle 3B and SS if you trade Espinal. So the solution if you do trade Espinal, is bring up a well regarded prospect to be the utility guy so Biggio gets regular PA’s?
Biggio’s time has passed.
Biggio in 2019 and 2020 averaged 240/370/430 for an 800 OPS as a light hitting 2B with 12 HR, 40 RBI 16 doubles. Was basically a rookie including an extremely shortened season and held his own defensively at 2B to the point someone special would have to come along to knock him off his spot, was thought of as the #3 guy behind Vlad and Bo in the rebuild
Has a hall of fame father too .
Yet all of a sudden a kid who is 130 points better in OBP than his average, who’s been hurt for nearly 3 years and is gutting out as best he can, is being treated like he’s washed, he’s a nobody. He’s an afterthought.
He’s healthy, he has no excuse, he was great 2nd half last year
My money is on Biggio being better than 240/370/430.
Fangraphs projections has Biggio with a 106 wRC+, 0.8 fWAR in ~350 PA’s. Espinal, 106, 2.3, in 500+ PA’s. Espinal is better than Biggio. With Merrifield getting the bucks, he will undoubtedly be starting at 2B followed by Espinal, then Biggio. No team needs 3 players who can play 2B.
The Jays are in win now mode, not “let’s see what he can do” mode. He’s redundant.
Biggio was not great the 2nd half last yr. He hit 183/283/333. That’s brutal.
His best month was June. If you squint really hard maybe you can find a positive there.
He is cheap and versatile, but should Barger or Lopez earn a spot by midseason, he is likely gone.
You never know. He could get back to the player he was initially, but as identified by others here, the slow bat is a concern. Sadly I would not bet on it
Espy for Hendriks? Lets get it done , you’ve got the compromising pics right?
2019 was the juiced ball and 2020 was a bunch of AA pitcher call ups. Cant use those years as a baseline. I love his swing but he seems incapable of making the adjustments.
Darwin award
Props for calling out the ‘great second half’ comment
I can’t help but mention that playing regularly helps with timing. Biggio had his best stretch during his most regular stretch of playing time. Not a coincidence. He has hit dingers off Gerrit Cole, and some success against Loaisiga so I think the slow bat concern fades once he can gain familiarity with these smoke throwers.
If he can be healthy at a time when the team has some playing time to be seized, I think he still has it in him to force their hand into playing him more.
Espinal is the 2B as he is the best defensively.
Espinal can’t play everyday he has proven that. He falls off when he gets over used. So they should make the most of him and play him at what he is best at,a part time player.
At least we can agree on one thing Darth, Espinal is the backup on a serious contending Jays squad
Let the Whitesox overpay for Espinal trying to compete with Minni or Cleveland. We have better coming up with Martinez and Barger anyway
I’d rather see TO make a blockbuster for LHH NL All star 2B Jazz Chisholm JR anyway but that’s fantasy land
I gave you the thumbs up out of respect for the right response to OPs comment
Yeah his 273 batting average in Sept/Oct was horrible. In july/Aug he had some of the worst strike 3 calls I have ever seen for one player. His defense alone trumps any other player he jays currently have for 2b
Just beg the Mets back for Gosuke Katoh he’s ok.
With both Kiermaier and to a (slightly) lesser extent Springer being made of glass i would expect to see Merrifield get quite a bit of playing time out in the Outfield
I was about to comment the same thing. Kiermaier maxes out at 100 games and Springer needs his off days. Merrifield will play half his games in the outfield. And Varsho is a candidate to sit vs. tough lefties.
If Varsho is a platoon bat, that makes the trade even worse.
Varsho and 80% plus of LHH are “platoon bats” but they also get 80% plus of the ABs in the “platoon” situation
You’re trying to find a problem, or create a problem where one doesn’t exist. Varsho will still get ABs vs LHH, Biggio has, Tapia did, Gosuke even had some in his time
It’s not against MLB rules to use a LHH against a LHP it’s just science, based on mechanics of LH pitchers (have you ever seen a LH pitcher throw OVERHAND????) I’m talking Hideo Nomo type OVERHAND. Directly over the top arm slot. Apparently that’s nearly impossible for LH pitchers, they have to come sidearm to 3/4 delivery (because of body physics etc) which makes it hard for a LHH to have good ABs because 90 plus percent of pitches they see look like they’ll hit you!!!! Right out of the pitchers hand!!! You got a split second to react and the majority of humans don’t like pain, don’t want to get hit, have seen images like Tony Fernandez breaking his Jaw or Pillar (as a Met) getting his face obliterated with a baseball so they hesitate that fraction of a second which causes weak contact or a foul ball etc.
Most casual fans don’t understand that, don’t consider that when speaking about platoon splits, why a LH pitcher who can mow down righties should be revered and praised for how difficult it is (think why lefty mashers exist???)
So lefties like Varsho, Biggio, Mayza, Gage even older ones like Madbum and Kershaw should be respected to the utmost degree.
To be crystal clear. You’re saying Varsho is a platoon bat?
Whit will start but I think he’ll be moved into a super utility roll as the season goes.
Josh Harrison
Tony kemp could be a trade fit
Tony Phillips would be an even bigger upgrade.
moustakas
This what I think happens
Varsho in CF. Springer in RF. Merrifield in LF. Kiermaier as defensive replacement.
Biggio playing 2nd vs right handed pitchers, and Espinal playing vs lefties and defensive replacement.
And Biggio will get some time in the outfield as well as 1st when Vlad gets a day off.
Clear management likes Biggio. If not he would have been gone. .He is guy who can be backup at few positions . If he is a starter you are always looking for someone better . .. He looks like a pirate/reds type players.
2nd is the one place you can accept a player like Biggio being the starter.
Youre not wrong.
If he’s the starting 3B, fail.
If he’s the starting SS, big fail.
If he’s the starting 1B, colossal fail.
If he’s the starting LF?? Maybe Keirmier failed so not devastating.
If he’s the starting 2B, everything is going according to plan.
Biggio would be better if he learned to bunt.
Everyone would have been with the shift.
But its gone now, only perfectly placed bunts will matter for the next little while
“Espinal was hitting .271/.323/.425 through the end of June. He even secured an All-Star appearance for that excellent early work, but he couldn’t carry that production for a full season. Espinal hit .261/.321/.317 from July onwards.”
So he was almost the same exact player, just with less power, so it was deemed he couldn’t carry that production for a full season? I’m confused.
Seems pretty simple to me vs. LHP I sit Jansen and either one of Biggio or Kiermaier and start Espinal.
Versus RHP, I would sit Espinal and rotate in Biggio and Kiermaier in the field, which would allow Kirk the occasional day off, and when he sits it would allow another player the opportunity to rest their legs a bit and DH for the day.
With Merrifield’s excellent versatility, and with Biggio being a versatile player himself, the Jay’s should be able to rotate guys in and out whenever anyone needs a day off or is facing a pitcher they struggle against.
Also, if either Biggio or Kiermaier is hot or struggling at the plate, the Jays can easily just ride the hot hand..
Plus, whenever Kiermaier sits, he can be used in the outfield as a late innings defensive replacement to maximize their outfield defense.
Having two to three quality bench pieces is an excellent problem to have, and over the course of the regular season, each player should be able to get plenty of at-bats and playing time.
Injuries are simply just a part of the game, but between having Bichette, Espinal, Biggio, Merrifield, Springer, Chapman, Kiermaier, and having multiple quality catchers the Jay’s have positioned themselves with plenty of enough depth and flexibility to account for any setbacks.
I also think with starters like Manoah, Gausman, Ryu, Bassitt, Berrios, Kikuchi, and White all possibly available to start for the Jays, they should have enough quality rotation depth to really make some noise in their division and ultimately make some noise come postseason time.
I don’t really know alot about how the Jay’s are going to use their bullpen arms, but with guys like Swanson, Cimber, Bass, Garcia, Gage, Mayza, Richards, Thornton, Pop, and Romano closing it out they look like a very solid, all-around put together group.
Also, I cannot forget they could still potentially add a healthy Pearson coming out the pen with some 97-100mph gas, and speaking of a flamethrower, the Jay’s could also debut Yosver Zulueta.
Zulu is one of their more exciting and tantalizingly talented, high ceiling prospects. He just needs to continue working on his control, and with a promising start to his season, we could see the Jay’s unleash Zulueta out of the bullpen at some point fairly early on in the 2023 season.
So, excluding Richards and Thornton, the Jay’s should have at least EIGHT or NINE quality arms they can turn to in order to bridge the gap between their starters and shutting the door in the 9th with Romano.
I know I certainly wouldn’t want my favorite team trying to come from behind, and having to face some combination of Bass, Swanson, and then Gage in the 6th and 7th innings, Pearson in the 8th, and then Romano in the 9th.
Now, obviously, Toronto could stand to upgrade at a few spots up and down their roster, but every team has its own strengths and weaknesses. All in all, the Blue Jay’s are a very talented, pretty complete team, and it should be fun watching them and how they’re able to grow and develop as a team throughout the regular season.
Well thought out and easily followed post.
Here’s another Jays fan outlook on the upcoming season. And this is assuming no big trades to come until at least the Allstar break.
As it stands I feel Atkins wants to have a 26 man roster of 13 position players and 13 pitchers
Starting players 1-9 lineup 4 bench guys and 1-5 starters plus 8 BP
1. Springer RF
2. Varsho LF
3. Vlad 1st
4. BO SS
5. Chapman 3rd
6. Kirk DH
7. Biggio 2nd
8. Jansen C
9. Keirmier CF
Bench
1. Merrifield backup CF/2nd
2. Espinal backup 2nd/3B/SS
3. Barger or Martinez (kids who are ready to get a shot in MLB)
4. A RHH vet like Pollack or Profar to DH/LF platoon with Varsho against tough lefties
SP 1-5
1. Manoah
2. Gausman
3. Barrios
4. Bassit
5. Kikuchi
RP
1. Romano
2. Garcia
3. Bass
4. Pearson
5. Pop
6. Mayza
7. Swanson
8. Gage
That leaves players like Richardson, Merriweather and even Cimber without a job. Although I suspect someone like Pop will be in AAA at the beginning of the year or even Gage with their options. Even Swanson can go back and forth I believe. RP seems to be ok as long as half of them don’t get injured or regress severely
Having already spoken about RP. Let’s also see what is most likely to fail or go wrong in the “perfect” world I suggest.
Let’s start with Kikuchi and White at the 5 spot. Not ideal for a team looking at WS aspirations. If either falter there currently isn’t a 100% answer, Tieddeman??? Do you risk that? Cueto? Is he any better? Bauer??? Do the Jays dare the PR risk? But all in all not the worst problem to have. But 1 more SP would be ideal.
Kikuchi could also fit into the RP category if he’s willing to try an Andrew Miller or Josh Hader type Roll.
The next issue is Keirmier. Will he produce enough to justify keeping him the starting CF? Does Varsho play so well they have to move him to CF, who covers LF if Varsho becomes the CF? Someone off the Bench? Biggio? Pollack? Profar? A kid like Barger? Again not the worst problem to have.
The final big question mark being the point of the Article, if what I believe is true and Biggio is thought to be the starting 2B. What if ge falters, well there’s still Espinal. There’s still Merrifield. But what about yhe LH bat.
Barger might be the answer there as well. The kid was lighting up AA and AAA last year , has a rocket for an arm and is passable at every IF spot including SS while having an arm strong enough for Corner OF work. He’s a Natural RHH who learned to Switch hit and now exclusively hits LH.
Sorry about the wall of text. Just excited for the possibilities and ready to see how the season shakes out
Jays should sign Yuli Gurriel… they would save a fortune with all the leftover jerseys they’ve got lying around!
Regarding the bench.
1) Biggio starting over Merrifield/Espinal? Just no.
2) well regarded prospects like Barger/Martinez riding the pines at the majors instead of getting reps in the minors? Double just no.
3) Do you believe that starting players like Profar and Pollack are going to accept contracts to be weak side platoon players?
1. Biggio hit 240/370/430 over 2019 2020 (rookie years) and was on fire 2nd half of last year. Is he likely to perform closer to that stat line than his 21/22 lines (I think yes) while also providing his best D at 2nd and also hitting LH which is what the Front Office is trying to push for right?
2. Barger who’s also a LHH (plays 1st 2nd SS 3rd RF LF with a CANNON) and Martinez (plays 2B SS 3B, exceptional power bat so fits 1B too) have earned shots and are versatile enough that they can play 5 times a week and not rot on the bench especially given the teams versatility and requirements to rotate and regularly rest many players.
3. In 2023 Profar and especially Pollack are NOT, I REPEAT NOT starting caliber players on any team even thinking about playoffs. SD is a perfect example. Profar just came from there and only had backup duties at a few different positions including DH to try and get him ABs because hes got a decent bat. Pollack is getting older, serious injuries have hampered his career and will benefit from DH and occasional LH duties while someone like Biggio Merrifield or Barger comes off the bench for defensive purposes in a really tight game or playoff situation.
Even though you’ve basically dismissed all those players except Merrifield who may I point out is older than Springer got a really late start and late blooming to his career. Wont be getting a 5 6 year contract unless he’s completely all star level leading the Jays to a title (which every Jays fan will take every day of the week)
Response? Complete doom and gloom? Everyone’s injured or performs poorly?? we demote Manoah? Trade Barrios with Tieddeman to Unload the contract?? Vlad requests a trade while Bo has 47 errors on the year?? Springer plays 27 games and Chapman signs with the Yankees and ends up in the HOF while they 5 peat over the duration of his contract abd he’s WS MVP 3 times? Did I miss anything?
Not sure what to tell you bud. I’m excited to see how it plays out though
1) See my previous post comparing Espinal and Biggio. Hint Espinal > Biggio. I don’t understand why you use his first 2 years in the league as an indicator for his performance this season. It’s better to use more recent data as an indicator of future performance. Biggio over the past 2 seasons has put a 90 wRC+ and fWAR/600 of 1.1. Merrifield 89 and 2.1, Espinal 104 and 3.4. He is the 3rd best 2B on a team with 3 2B.
2) You want an unproven prospect (Barger/Martinez) to play 5 times a week when the Jays are in win now mode? Think about that for a second.
3) Profar put up a 110 wRC+, 2.5 fWAR in 650+ PA’s. That is a full time player. It figures why he declined his $8.3M option to become a FA. Pollack declined his $13M option to become a FA. Think he’s going to sign for less than that?
I’m not dismissing all those players. Merrifield should be the starting 2B, Espinal covers 2B,3B and SS. Biggio is off the 26 man (traded or in Buffalo). Barger/Martinez stay in AAA to continue to developing. They should be looking at a player who hits LHP better than league average as the 4th OF (Grossman or Robles as an example) that won’t be be on a long term or high cost contract.
Orelvis Martinez? That guy bat .203 with 140K in AA last year. Probably a few years out unless he can rein it in. They already have that kind of batter in Varsho *ducks* (and Chapman)
He also hit 30 plus HR.
He’s ready.
Man I can’t believe so many people in think the jays “getting fleeced on so many deals” is even relevant. The jays are in win now mode. It’s likely either jays or yanks win the division and with the upgrades they’ve made I cannot see them not winning the div. Defensively probably the best in the league now. Too many idiots in here think otherwise. Prove me wrong
Im not gonna argue with you. I don’t think you’re going to be proven wrong. I’m a fan(atic) who wants to believe every move and every signing and every prospect will turn into the Next Halliday, Delgado, Stieb. Every trade will be a HOF like Mcgriff and icon like Fernandez for 2 decent yet unknown players in Alomar and Carter who turn into storied Hero’s and deliver back to back and nearly 3 peat performes
Im realistic but also optimistic.
Prove me wrong on any comments in this thread, old or new
You prove me wrong! To be honest there are 2 types of Jays fans, those that think the Jays got fleeced on every trade and those that think every trade is a win. Although I am firmly the former, and I acknowledge I am unrealistically pessimistic, the other end of the spectrum isnt much better.. It is very easy to see how the Varsho trade could be a loss. Sure it could work out but lets not pretend this is a big win for the Jays right off the bat. Even the Berrios trade could be bad soon. SWR could very well be better than Berrios this year. and he is 22!
Also, somewhat related, the Jays had the worst 2 5th starters in the league and didnt address it this off season…
The Jays’ best option at second base is currently playing out of position on the other side of the diamond.
It’s pretty simple. Merrifield at 2B until that pile of crap Kiermaier is on the IL. then as of now with no depth, Merrifield will have to pointlessly play a corner field spot with a bat that doesn’t suit the position’s traditional offensive production. sign some outfield depth Atkins….
It scares me that we could be watching both Kiermaier and Merrifield in the same lineup some days. Varsho at least can do something against righties, but they really need a capable right handed bench bat if they are going to do better in leverage than they have the past couple of seasons.
The Kiermaier signing is looking regrettable for Atkins at this point. We all know it was a panic signing after they missed on Nimmo and after acquiring Varsho, Kiermaier really serves no purpose since Varsho is the better CF. He’s going to get hurt, that’s guaranteed but if he goes down and Springer goes down, as of now the outfield would be Varsho, Merrifield and …Biggio? Lol. I’ll say it again, the Jays biggest need coming out of 2022 was outfield depth because of the trainwreck of injuries out there. A GM’s job is to fix the spots in need so I fail to see how a player that’s missed over 300 games since 2017 will fix that.
Those options don’t have a clear front runner but sometimes playing matchups works really well.
Options missing would include Otto Lopez who might be the best hitter of the group. Steamer seems to project him to produce the best for what that model is worth. Tanner Morris is a lefty who walks as much as he strikes out and is at AAA. I don’t think he’s very good defensively though which is maybe why they left him unprotected and he wasn’t selected in the rule 5.
Then there’s the fact that the team has focused on defense this offseason and has a guy really really struggling to play minimally capable SS. I don’t know if Jose Iglesias is any better offensively than the group of 2B they have, but the defense could improve by getting a true defensive SS and moving Bichette to 2B. I doubt that’ll happen. I think it would take an internal everyday SS candidate emerging. Barger has the arm for it. Jimenez is apparently good at SS too. Don’t know if either is realistic to seize an everyday job by this year though.
The team should be more concerned with the OF and the back end of the rotation.
OF has 1 guy who is ALWAYS injured
1 guy who can’t hit and is often injured
and 1 guy who doesn’t get enough hits.
Not a good OF
Last two spots in the rotation is currently occupied by guys who are coming off of disastrous years, not bad years, disastrous years.
2B is a position the BJ’s are loaded with options. Their best option being the guy currently playing short who doesn’t have the arm to play SS
Beyond that is a guy who was just an All-Star for that position last season. So, no, 2B should not even be on the radar for issues for the team to fix.
Really hope Bichette has spent some time this off-season working on his fielding and throwing. He is undoubtedly an offensive weapon but those repeated mistakes will be the Achilles heel of this team if they continue in 2023. I think the maturity will set it in with him and vlad soon but that’s also something I’m happy the front office addressed with the guys they brought in. All leaders and consummate professionals. Following in line with the previous moves acquiring Gausman and Chapman. This team is poised for a big run in 2023 but I’m telling you that shortstop defense could make or break them in A world series
Twins Fan here although I have always followed the Jays (had a Jays hat too) . . . The future in Toronto that most helps your team at 2nd base is moving Bichette there with Barger playing shortstop. Solves your problems with far better defense and a new set of Killer B’s emerge for years to come ~
On another note to posts by others, we Twins fans hated losing Berrios. He had a rough year for you but is a quality pitcher with an amazing work ethic. Good kid and I trust 2023 will be far better . . .