The market for the top free agent catcher continues to come into view. Gordon Wittenmyer of NBC Sports Chicago reports that Willson Contreras has received preliminary multi-year offers from both the Cardinals and Astros at this week’s Winter Meetings. A third team has also put forth an offer, according to Wittenmyer, though the identity of that club is unknown (but is said to not be either Boston or Tampa Bay). Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch characterizes discussions more informally as the team also juggles trade possibilities but notes there has been talk about the possibility of a multi-year offer.
Both St. Louis and Houston have been tied to Contreras numerous times through the offseason, but it’s still notable those teams have put proposals on the table. John Denton of MLB.com reports (Twitter link) that a fourth year could be an obstacle in Contreras’ talks with St. Louis. According to Denton, the Cards are prepared to meet the three-time All-Star’s asking price on an annual basis but are reluctant to go past three seasons. Whether another team is putting a fourth year on the table isn’t clear, although Wittenmyer adds that no teams have thus far been willing to go five years.
St. Louis skipper Oliver Marmol confirmed reports the Cards would sit down with Contreras at the Winter Meetings. Goold has suggested the team’s preferred solution is to acquire A’s backstop Sean Murphy, although that’d require surrendering highly-regarded young talent — and the A’s are reportedly looking for MLB-ready players in return. It’s perhaps not a coincidence that Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat tweets there’s a growing sense the Cardinals could find their new catcher in free agency, and he characterizes Contreras as the target that’d be most likely in that scenario.
The Astros interest in Contreras dates back to the trade deadline, but owner Jim Crane nixed an agreed-upon swap that’d have brought him in from Chicago. It seems they’re less concerned about him acclimating to a new pitching staff with an offseason to prepare than they’d be if he were added in the midst of a pennant race, and the multi-year proposals on the table reflect that. Houston has Martín Maldonado as their top backstop at present, and Contreras would be expected to rotate between catcher, left field and designated hitter if they pulled off a deal.
At the end of the season, the 30-year-old declined a qualifying offer from the Cubs. He’d cost any signing team at least one draft pick, while the Cubs stand to receive draft compensation in the highly likely event he departs. MLBTR forecasted a four-year, $84MM contract for Contreras at the start of the offseason.
DonOsbourne
Mo just likes to make me eat my words. It’s personal.
Yankee Clipper
Their offer surprises me, man. But if you get him, you know the offense will be there. I still like the Murphy route.
Deadguy
Sean Murphy to STL makes so much sense other than Oakland wants MLB ready talent?
I say offer
Gorman
Libratore
Herrera
I hear the A’s got to many catchers to consider taking Herrera, so we’re back to the drawing board and the A’s are gonna want one of Carlson, Nootbaar, or Burleson instead of Herrera and the trade talks hit a snag then here we are talking about signing Contreras for 3 years and he wants 4… he’s already in decline behind the plate… no more than 3 years for an offense first gonna be DH in 2 years catcher? If Herrera develops the timeline fits? But do the Cardinals wanna sacrifice defense for 1-2 years and even then Herrera doesn’t profile as a defensive catcher
cards2016
No way they give up Liberatore and Gorman plus Herrera. I’m fine with the other two, but Liberatore is worth much more.
Deadguy
There gonna have to give up one MLB ready team controlled pitcher to aquire Murphy… the hold up maybe that the A’s want more than just one pitcher and Gorman? I’m not sure what’s been offered, but I know Oakland is gonna want one of our MLB ready pitchers to get the deal across the table? Thompson, Libratore, Pallante, one of those three if not 2 of the three
SODOMOJO
From everything I’ve read they love Gorman and that lefty kid. And Baseball America is in love with them as well. I think those are basically their two biggest prospects? Would be surprising to see them give up either one. Which might be why it hasn’t happened yet? Oakland has no short term reason to give him up for anything other than a stud prospect and some good change.
Cardsfanatik redux
Jordan Walker is their #1 stud prospect, but, If the A’s are asking for Gorman, Liberatore, plus,I’d walk away too.
Devlsh
I disagree.
The scouting report on Liberatore is that all his pitches grade above average….but from a tunneling perspective, they all look different, and therefore are easy for major league batters to identify early. I suspect it’s why the Rays were willing to give him up in the first place (the list of pitchers who amount to anything AFTER being traded from Tampa is very short). I seriously doubt Liberatore ever lives up to his draft position without major changes, and the Cardinals don’t have the reputation for unlocking talent that takes pitchers to the next level ala the Dodgers/Marlins/Giants/etc.
I’m completely fine with Gorman/Liberatore and a sweetener lottery pick type (even a Moises Gomez) for Murphy, but understand that Oakland may want more….and with all the interest in Murphy, they may get more, even if not from Stl.
All that said, please no W. Contreras. He’s completely wrong for the Cardinals and represents an enormous shift away from successful catcher defense and game-calling. Sign Vasquez, trade for a Toronto pitcher or settle for a bounceback candidate. like Navarez, Grandel, Stassi, etc.
Deadguy
Well we can put this to bed…. Contereas 5 years 90 million…. oh boy
steven st croix
With this leaking, it sounds like he won’t be going to either of these teams.
.
If I found out as a GM that my sources were leaking info in an unsolicited fashion, I would be demanding Samurai/Yakuza penance! Black Rain style! Top portion of the pinky!
YourDreamGM
Likely agent is the leak.
.
DreamGM, in that case it’s a whole pinky.
Deadguy
Lol why not just the whole hand? At least two whole fingers? Pinky seems light
.
Ripper, I don’t know exactly man hahaha But….I know they start at the pinky because it is the strongest grip finger when wielding a sword. Same goes for holding a bat…
TrillionaireTeamOperator
Practically forgot about Contreras….. at the rate this off season is going he may reach 4 years/$100M or 5 years/$110M.
cards2016
At that price I hope Cardinals stay away. A poor defending catcher that will likely be DH only in a couple of years I wouldn’t think about paying $20m+ per year on a 4-5 year deal.
I’d be ok with Cardinals trading an OF and a top 10 prospect for Murphy.
Deadguy
They are gonna want much more for Murphy, he’s essentially J.T. Realmuto at cost controlled arbitration prices for 3 years… Catchers are expensive, very expensive
I’d rather see them trade for Murphy at almost any cost over the free agent options? Vazquez is okay, but there’s a reason Maldonado played hurt over him? Zunino offers good defense but he will strike out 300 times in 650 at bats and Contereas is a DH?
Not Trevor Bauer
He’s actually a good defensive catcher. His numbers are dragged down by his poor framing metrics. MLB will likely bring the automatic strike zone in 2024 which will make that skill irrelevant.
If we look at his DRS numbers the last 3 years,
rSZ: -5 (career -24)
rCERA: +4 (career +7)
rSB: +4 (career +20)
rGFP: +5 (career +6)
Overall DRS: +8 (career +11)
Overall DRS without framing: +13 (career +33)
So he’s been an above average catcher by a significant amount (8 runs prevented above average), and will get helped out by robo umps.
Plugnplay
Come on Cardinals! Keep him away from the Astros. Up the offer! Hehe
BarrelMan
No, please sign with the Astros. 🙂
❤️ MuteButton
The Astros don’t need him. They’re probably just causing other teams to spend more.
mrpadre19
Wait…..no Padres?
baseballpun
I don’t know who Oakland is insisting on from STL. I don’t want them to trade Donovon. But I’d rather trade Donovon, move Edman back to 2nd and spend money on Swanson than spend the money on Contreras.
Talleywhacker
Agreed.
Bryzzo2016
Yeah, a strong bat but when it comes to handling pitchers, framing, DRS… he is literally the opposite of Yadi. He would drive Cards fans nuts. There’s a reason he was never offered an extension by Chicago in spite of having plenty of money to spend.
cards2016
Low .300 OBP, poor defense, will likely DH only in a year or two.
FrontOfficeStan
I like the idea but there’s no reason to think Mo would actually do that considering history.
Ol’ Uncle Charlie
Cards need two bats. I think Swanson will work well, then Edman can move back to RF and shore up the lack of production in the OF.
Deadguy
They are wanting 3 major league ready players it’s seems at the very least… players like Gorman, Burleson, Nootbaar, Carlson, Libratore, Thompson, Herrera, Donovan, Pallante, players who have MLB experience or are very very close to getting it that are also under team control for 3-5 more years?
Holy Cow!
Guessing the third team is the Rockies.
goastros123
I don’t think Contreras is what the Astros need. I’d rather have Andrew Benintendi in left ftield and Maldy behind the plate. Sure, Contreras is a better hitter than Maldy, but the Astros biggest strength is pitching and Maldy is great framer behind the plate.
jeff51488
They wouldnt use him as a full time catcher. Him and Yordan would swap between LF and DH.
goastros123
And I think there’s better left fielders.
jeff51488
I’ll take Uncle Mike back
❤️ MuteButton
Andrew Benintendi is basically a weak little mediocre guy. Contreras can hit a little bit but is not a good defensive catcher. Uncle Mike all the way!
Surly_03
I could be wrong but I don’t think Contreras becomes the starting catcher, at least not in ‘23.
Machete might catch ~110 games and Contreras might catch ~50? Contreras could DH ~65 games when Alvarez is in LF.
We might get Wilson into another 12-24 games via LF or 1B, I reckon. But I’d prefer extra AB’s at 1B and signing a LH LF who can play some CF when Alvarez is in left or just acquire a LH CF. I like Conforto on a 1 year ‘prove yourself’ deal.
Deadguy
And that’s why you need a GM instead of a owner running the team? Has Crane called Luhnow yet? What’s the hold up?
Mehmehmeh
If you look at the metrics, Maldy is not an elite framer. His value with HOU is in working with the pitching staff and gameplan execution of pitching. I would only want the team to replace him if they are confident the replacement can take over those roles well. Personally I would like the see Vasquez back and have Maldy be depth behind him.
yankeejim
I agree completely. Maldy’s not been a plus defensive catcher for years. Led the league in passed balls, and only average at throwing out runners. I do like his game calling and prep. Would love to get Vasquez back.
Mehmehmeh
Some of Hou’s stats have to be seen from the perspective that they’re calling a higher frequency of high-spin breaking pitches than other teams. This rise in passed balls and hbp is more a function of gameplan than individual shortcomings from players.
yankeejim
Agree, but doubt that happens as long as Dusty is there.
YourDreamGM
Oh wow multi-year offers! I was expecting him to only get a 1 year deal.
lionsman86
Tigers sure love 65 win seasons. Dooo something *bangs head on desk*
Deadguy
Lmao *bangs head on desk*
DefensiveIndifference
I’m guessing the Cardinals pursuit of Murphy has been derailed by the A’s wanting multiple mlb ready players. Not that they shouldn’t be trying to get the best deal possible, but it seemed a lot more palatable when the deal was Gorman + guys that are still developing. Especially on the pitching side. We aren’t exactly in the position to be trading away the few young pitchers we have that are ready to contribute now. Libby, Palante, Thompson. There are only 2 Starters on the books after this year. Probs gonna need them.
Android Dawesome
If Contreras decides that the Cardinals are the best fit for him I’m more than happy for him. Just stay away from the sticky stuff. We don’t want any balls sticking to your chest protector.
ASapsFables
No Cubs fan wants to see Willson Contreras in St.Louis. Pulling for the Astros here. Rooting for Houston will be much easier with ‘Willy’ and ‘Pito’ on board for this die-hard Chicago baseball fan. That said, I would have been happier had Abreu signed with the Cubs and Contreras with the White Sox if it wasn’t in the cards for either to remain with their original Chicago teams.
User 3663041837
Guess Crane wants Contreras after all.
deGromTexasRanger
Massive L for the Cubs for not moving Wilson…
Devlsh
I’m sooooo rooting for the Astros to win this competition.
itsgonnahappen
I’d rather have Vazquez as a .265 hitter with no power and good defense. Contreras isn’t a ‘strong behind the plate catcher’, but he hits balls hard. I’d rather have a guy that moves the lineup and can call a great game. Maldy it’s time to take a backseat, and catch every 3rd or 4th game.
crazybaseballgal
Please let him go to the Cards
❤️ MuteButton
As an Astro fan, you can have him
angt222
Mystery team is Mets.
Rantucky
A middle of the pack spending team like the Cards can only hope cost controlled young players develop into what they need for a championship. Trading the farm for Murphy will actually set them back because there is still holes in the pitching. No way the Cards pitching staff can win in the postseason.
nottinghamforest13
Derrick Goold and other media members have enabled the deviant DUI behavior of Dan McLaughlin. They have protected him from scrutiny in the past and shamed the public for demanding accountability from their drinking buddy. Never forget that it was Goold who wrote about how talented McLaughlin was to justify him getting minimal punishment for his previous offenses.
Chris Koch
Isn’t there a QO draft pick given up clause at 100mil? Where the market youre in determines which round/#’d pick you give up aif below or higher than 100mil? Or is it something else? St Louis being a “revenue sharing recipient” probably wants to avoid the higher cost pick. Maybe Contreras has a 4/100+ offer on the table or ask above 100M on 5years.
cards2016
That kind of money is absurd for a guy that can’t catch and has low 300 OBP. I don’t care about his homeruns. I’d take a guy that can catch around 1k innings and can call a good game/framing above average.
I would hate to overpay for a guy that’s gonna DH most of the contract for $20m+ for 4-5 years.
LGStros
I’d rather Houston focus on LF. Just my $0.02.
Dad
Nice pickup,Not really an overpay,Tough to see him in a Cardinal jersey though! I always thought he was a punk?
Cardsfanatik redux
All these comments from expert GM’s in this chat about how bad Contreras calls a game is hilarious. I’m not sure how all of you guys got passed over for one of the GM jobs. Do you guys really believe that the catcher’s look at the dugout 600 billion times a game because they actually call the entire game anyway? Give me a break. Yadi was a once in a generation talent. You WON’T replace him. But I’ll take Contreras and his salary, which costs me NOTHING personally, over the option of sending a possible 22 year old 30-40 HR bat, plus others to Oakland. There is a reason Sean Murphy is still an Athletic. And I don’t think it has ANYTHING to do with the interest in him. And probably EVERYTHING to do with the A’s KNOWING what they have, and taking advantage of the market. You guys can hate this all you want, I want to thank Moz for not sitting around until we had to stomach some “rebound” candidate, or watch Knizner bat .185 all year long.